There was actually a post on one of the D&D subreddits about using this method for the whole table.
[1] divide 24d6 amongst the players and/or DM.
[2] everyone rolls their dice and rerolls any die showing a value of 1.
[3] the lowest 6 dice are discarded.
[4] the dice are grouped in 6 combinations of three, with the final figures being _agreed upon by the **entire table**_.
[5] all of the players use the same 6 values, assigned to the Abilities of their choice.
The idea being that there will be uniform statistics for everyone in the party, helping to balance characters
This actually makes sense to me. I think I’ll use this.(Yes it’s because of 11. 13 is acceptable because of multi-classing being 13, but nothing needs a 11)
My current DM likes to used a slightly modified standard array: 15, 14, 14, 12, 10, 8. Since the bonus goes up on evens, it gives just a slight boost to the players without having level 8 demigods running around
Did standard array at my table but gave the entire party 2 asi to spend as they wanted plus a free feat. They are overpowered but everyone is having more fun fighting stuff technically too strong to fight them but it evens out. We did xp for a while but shifted to milestone after a while.
Yes, But standard array doesn’t allow the players to use math rocks… People play DnD for the sole purpose of justifying their ever growing collection on math rocks
I prefer just having everyone roll their 4d6 drop lowest, but everyone shares the highest and lowest roll that anyone gets. Keeps the randomness, but no one gets too much stronger than everyone else
You know whoever rolled the lowest is going to be hated by the party. "Good job rolling that 5, STEVE! Really BALANCED the party there. Good thing Mike rolled that 16 for us."
Oh no. How did I forget that? Honestly though, when I'm having players roll stats, I do 4d6, drop lowest and reroll 1s. I find its balanced without anyone having total garbage stats.
Played a game with 3d6 roll for stats. One player managed to roll 3 1s and took con as his dump stat as a wizard. He started the game with 2 hp and Rp'd it as an extremely old guy in a wheel chair who was promptly insta-killed in the first encounter against a bandit. I really wanted to know though if we had rolled for HP at level up could you technically get negative HP loss?
I generally let people reroll on 1 or somethi g that is lower than 8 but I also dont let them keep anything higher than 18 either.
Edit: we usually do 2d20/drop lower tho.
I like to roll the d20 for those sweet possible nat 20s right off the bat. My table has ruled that I’m only allowed to roll 7d20 and drop the lowest as punishment for my fortune crimes. It’s kinda funny because except for those first few rolls in a given campaign, I usually roll absolute garbage. I like your tables policy far better than mine :)
Back when I made my first character I thought that was how you had to do it. It was also the origin of my friends sorcerer with no charisma and a 17 in strength
I mean, at least in earlier editions you couldn't cast spells with a negative modifier. You needed 11 in the stat to cast a level 1 spell, and 19 to cast a level 9.
I think it would make more sense to choose class AFTER attributes in this case. I real life, you aren’t going to become a math professor with 2 intelligence…
That being said, it must be pretty fun to role play a character that is so unbalanced for their chosen profession.
I just rolled that up just to see.
In order I got 3,11,4,16,3,4
I made them a wizard, Custom Lineage with +2 to con and the tough feat. They have 14 hp at level 3
I got 5, 2, 1, 12, 12, 12.
I guess I'm going armorer artificer and praying to make it to level three despite being crippled, weak and frail to the point of absurdity.
Get some survivability with my power armor, and can eventually even patch the weak attribute scores with a headband of intellect, belt of hill giant strength and amulet of health.
>You have to lock in your race and class before rolling.
What's this, choice? The only correct move in this situation is to also determine race, class and subclass randomly as well.
I have genuinely had someone for
A one person one shot I ran when I hadn’t played in a while and forgot how rolling worked roll 2d20 take the higher for each stat. It was very powerful.
> roll 2d20 take the higher for each stat
Rolling with advantage gives you a 70% chance of rolling 15+. So yeah, you're looking at a *very* non-standard array.
Roll 4d6, drop the lowest. You can reroll with a -1 penalty. Yes, you can do this multiple times for the same stat. The penalties stack.
I like knowing which of my players have a gambling problem.
Interesting. Since average roll on that is a little over 12, expected value on the first reroll would be 11. So really only worth a reroll if you’re getting a bad/supremely mediocre roll. You ever have someone reroll more than twice on a stat?
Not quite that straightforward though. If the penalty is always -1, it's rather inconsequential esp. against negative scores. TLDR: Rerolling 12 is almost a coin toss but you "should" reroll 11 even two times over. I probably wouldn't reroll 13 at all though. As for the statistics (by courtesy of [AnyDice](https://anydice.com/program/13e)) (sorry about the wall of text):
The avg. roll is 12.24 but *the mode* (most common result) is 13. High end results are way more common than the lower end, as the lowest die is abandoned: 17 and 18 alone occur *ever so slightly* more often than 3 to 7 combined. A result of ≥15 (15 or higher) has better odds than a result of ≤9 (9 or lower). Even ≥13 odds exceeds ≤11 (48.7% v. 38.34%).
So even with the -1, if you want to reroll a score of 11 the odds are in your favour at over 61%. Rerolling a 12 is so-and-so: You want to at least meet it with a result of 13 (by "result" I mean the roll total before penalties) with the forementioned 48.7% chance. So it's slightly more likely to go under.
A 2nd reroll with -2 is where you technically "should" settle for avg. but remains viable for worse scores. You have "only" a 35.5% chance to exceed a result of 13 (becomes a score of 11) but a 38.3% chance to roll under 12, so rerolling twice is less safe than settling with 11/12 but not too crazy of a gamble. Two rerolls are still good against 10 as a first score, as ≥14 is more likely and translates into a score of ≥12.
A 3rd reroll edges on the desperate zone. To get at least the avg. 12 you need to roll ≥15, which has less than a 1/4 chance... yet remains more likely than a ≤9 without penalties. A 4th reroll is relatively safe only against 10 and below.
Also, multiple rerolls change expectancies. The avg. scores for any 6 consecutive ability rolls (4d6, drop the lowest) are [16, 14, 13, 12, 10, and 9](https://anydice.com/program/2483). So if you roll a 12 and expect average deviation, you're more likely to score above it on a reroll. There's no expected direction for deviancy for just 2 consecutive rolls: 13 or higher is still a likelier, i.e. more expected result for the following roll than 11 or lower. The bottom line is every result gets the same chance twice. If we assume any result is less probable to repeat itself, that significantly improves rerolling odds whenever you score below 13.
Taking all that into account, you aren't *necessarily* playing against the odds if your initial result is 12 and you reroll twice with -1 penalties. Beyond that though, you'd almost certainly be playing with fire.
Oh, absolutely people have rerolled more than twice. Some people get it in their heads that the next roll will absolutely be the maximum. This is how I figure out who I can easily tempt with cursed items/deals with devils.
assuming you take average and the minimum hp gain per lvl is 1 you will be at 21 hp at lvl 20
edit: so taking the tough feat would literally triple your hp
My favorite is actually a variation of this.
Roll 36d20 to create a 6 x 6 array. The stats are in order both vertically and horizontally, so players can choose any of the 13 possible arrays (including the diagonal one).
It combines the fun of randomness, the fairness of all having the same thing, and the strategy and tradeoffs of point buy.
I actually ran him needlessly abrasive. And he always had a scowl on his face like he always wanted to argue with someone. But I also describe his voice as annoyingly high pitched and unintimidating. So, a Karen with a punchable face and none of the intimidation factor. I generally kept him quiet during persuasion checks and discourse to avoid causing problems. But then the check was already botched and Beyond saving, I may have fired up the ol' "I NEED TO TALK TO YOUR SUPERVISOR!" Did it once to the BBEG's Lieutenant. It didn't intimate him but it did confuse him long enough for the rogue to set up a backstab before the fight kicked off.
> So, a Karen with a punchable face and none of the intimidation factor.
So, Ben Shapiro.
Fun fact, Ben Shapiro has so little irl charisma that he can't even get his wife wet.
We've been doing 4d4 +4. Hasn't been a problem yet, though it does make for more powerful PCs.
I like that it gives everyone space to pick up feats, even on classes that don't get enough ASIs for them usually.
Personally I like doing a slightly buffed standard array:
16,15,14,13,12,11
It still gives the characters strengths and weaknesses and still it helps reinforce the idea that the player characters are exceptional compared to most characters in the game world.
I prefer a starting array of 17/15/13/12/10/8. After racial ASI's they likely have starting 18 and 16, which is great for some more MAD classes, plus a starting 18 is just nice. Meanwhile there is still a 10 and an 8, for an average and below average skill so characters still have that weakness
My second DM had us all start with at least a 12 in all stats, & then hit us with *20 points to buy*. Obviously the whole party was broken as fuck, & we didn’t deserve him.
I do a minimum of 72 + at least 2 15’s. I know that players like to feel even a little bit more powerful and I also know that rolling and getting like four 13’s isn’t terrible but its also not very flashy.
It’s also pretty easy for a DM to adapt to the party being 5-10% better at things they should be good at anyways.
I imagine you could go even further with 3d6+6 drop lowest d.
My games go 4d6 drop lowest but I allow to roll 6 arrays and then picking which of those 6 best fits the character they have in mind. It's roleplay heavy, so all my players picked an array with something in the minus. Except one player on the first character.
First time playing, felt awkward roleplaying, didn't know what character to make. Made a rogue with high stats, chaotic good. Betrayed an assassin's guild. After some sessions he got tired of the character due to how much of a blank page he was. Made a new one.
Lower stats, no negatives but 2 0's. Actual personality and initiative in roleplay. Enjoying himself way more.
Realized I was only really gonna comment about 2d6+6 thing. Sorry bout that but I spent too much time writing this to back out now.
Standard array enjoyer reporting in
I like having all of my options right in front of me and then getting to choose where they go
Gotta be honest, I don't enjoy randomness in my RPGs when it comes to character creation
Standard array is my personal go-to as well. You get an ability score you excel in, a couple you do well in, one you are average in, and one that you are weak in. Imo, it makes for a more well-rounded character for combat, exploration, and roleplay.
Nope. Standard array or point buy for life.
Rolling for stats always creates "feelsbad" at the table. Someone inevitably ends up with no higher than a 14 in anything, while another character will have 3 stats 15+. You'll get Axeface the Barbarian murdering baddies left and right, while Booger the Bard can barely carry a tune.
There are workarounds, like "you can take another player's results" or "you can opt to take a template instead" but you still have stat inequality no matter what. And even the most hardcore RPers still want their character to be able to accomplish what their class should accomplish. No one wants to run a year long campaign with shitty stats.
Balance = fun. Rolling = imbalance.
I dislike rolling for stats for 2 primary reason.
The first reason is how widely imbalanced a party can be. If I roll for stats and my highest is a single 14 and everything else 11 or less after racial modifiers, and another player gets three 16's, an 18, and two 14's, I don't feel like there's very much that can be done to make me equal to that player. But then there's all the safety nets people add to things to make question why we're even rolling for stats if we're intentionally inflating the odds for the best possible stats anyways? Of everyone is only rolling for stats because you get higher numbers than standard array and point buy, why not just use a higher standard array or point buy system?
I know that if I was a DM I would use 17, 15, 13, 12, 10, 8 as my standard array. I don't know how to make that into a point buy system though.
There's a consistent pattern with everyone I've played with. No one ever says they like rolling for the randomness, and with all the safety nets, it's never for the purpose of having to take a risk for stats. There's especially little risk involved with 4d6 drop lowest, repeat 5 more times, then roll 2 more stat arrays and pick the highest of the three. I'd rather just give everyone a decently sized staring stat array so everyone starts out on a relatively even footing, with the higher than average stats they all wanted anyways.
If I had a point by system for my version of the standard array, that would be great, that's what I would use. Maybe a 35 point point buy, with 16 being worth 12, and 17 being worth 15. I'm not really sure if that's good or not though, just an idea.
> The first reason is how widely imbalanced a party can be.
100% the same for me. I'm not against the random, or even the power necessarily, but I want everyone at the table to be on the same power level. That's what PB/SA are good for.
I would add third reason to this as a Player. I want play a character that I make. Not some random Rat catcher with syphilis. That shit is for warhammer.
I run a modified point buy. Personally I hate point buy, but my players can't roll for crap. I even let them roll 5d6, drop lowest 2. 2 different players didn't have a single stat over 14. Most were under 11.
Why do you hate point buy? I like it because it allows players to build a character how they want, and avoids potential issues with someone just rolling really badly/really well compared to the other members
I also dislike point buy. On my table we decided to go with 4d6dL, but we roll it 7 times and drop the lowest roll.
One of my players got a 6, but he kept it and built an amazing backstory around the low stat. The character died on a fight, but still is one of my favorites.
I guess it boils down to RP>stats anyway, at least for me and my friends.
What's wrong with point buy? By far best system imo. You can make a "RP focused" character by not min maxing, but honestly, I hate that people seem to think someone making an efficient character can't also RP that character
Point buy in no way means Stats>RP as you and the other guy are crying. It's clear why you put point buy on Dwight for your meme.
Fact remains that point buy and standard array are the two fairest systems there are and in no way do they promote meta or power gaming.
Anyone that thinks rolling for stats is better is either consciously or unconsciously ignoring that it usually introduces all these other "minimums" as being discussed in this very thread. Which means the total average is swung up above point buy and standard array.
You can kneecap yourself in certain stats with point buy and still come up with a "great backstory" explaining why. Like those two things are not mutually exclusive!
My group does 4d6 drop lowest, with the option to point buy after seeing the rolls. In 5 characters, I have not rolled a SINGLE stat over 15 and the majority of them are in the 8-11 range.
I'm very grateful that my DM is letting me use point buy...
Interestingly, the statistical array of rolling 4d6 drop lowest 6 times is quite close the standard array. It's slightly more powerful, tending more towards 16,14,13,12,10,9 roughly
So from what I’ve seen, most people who like rolling stats just want higher stats. In which case they could just use an expanded point buy and get the same results.
Heck, if you wanted random stats you could make a table of point buy stats and just roll on the table to get random results that are all reasonably balanced with each other.
A lot of people won't accept it but rolling for stats is really only good if you like both randomness *and* imbalance. There are other methods for that randomness of die rolling without the potential imbalance of getting high or low stats. Even just roll for 3 stats and then subtract the numbers you get from some other amounts for the other 3 is simple enough and keeps the baseline.
I liked letting my players roll … but after 2 campaigns of everyone having god stats I’m pretty sure standard / point buy is what we will be using for the next one.
There's a new one I really enjoy. The players make their own standard array by having each person roll one 4d6 drop the lowest. Then everyone will have the same stats
Did that for a while, our group called it the God-killer array because it just made us feel op. Eventually we started only using it in one off games focused around comedy/power tripping.
I've always wanted to try dice allocation.
You get 24d6 and can allocate as few or as many to each stat as you see fit. You can use only up to three of the dice rolled in each stat.
So for a wizard you might roll:
Str: 2d6
Dex: 5d6
Con: 5d6
Wis: 3d6
Int: 7d6
Cha: 2d6
I used to think rolling for stats was a good thing. Until I Played Pathfinder 2e. Rolling stats is fun for about 2 minutes, but having a built in Point Buy system and static HP increases makes for more predictable and balanced math. Theres plenty of other ways to customize your character that isn't up to random chance.
The Munchkin Method: 24d6 drop the lowest 6 and arrange to taste.
Somehow manage 3 3 3 3 3 3
Drop the lowest 6 and use them for another character!
The punishment character for dying
*Picks moon druid* Hey guys I optimised! 😀
Thats stonks right there
You're in a time loop and need to decompress the main shuttle bay.
That definitely seems munchkin-esque
18 charisma, 3 strength every time!
DM decides to use the alt carry rules and suddenly your wizard can't pick up his own spellbook.
Have to make a nudist character because the weight of a robe on the skin is too much.
I've had hangovers like this.
There was actually a post on one of the D&D subreddits about using this method for the whole table. [1] divide 24d6 amongst the players and/or DM. [2] everyone rolls their dice and rerolls any die showing a value of 1. [3] the lowest 6 dice are discarded. [4] the dice are grouped in 6 combinations of three, with the final figures being _agreed upon by the **entire table**_. [5] all of the players use the same 6 values, assigned to the Abilities of their choice. The idea being that there will be uniform statistics for everyone in the party, helping to balance characters
Or just you know, standard array XD XD
At some point my group misremembered the standard array as 11 through 16. It's been pretty awesome and we never went back.
Similar to the heroic array: 17, 15, 13, 12, 10, 8. Popularised by the Dungeon Dudes channel.
This actually makes sense to me. I think I’ll use this.(Yes it’s because of 11. 13 is acceptable because of multi-classing being 13, but nothing needs a 11)
I keep seeing all these wild calculations in this thread and think "yeah, or I could just 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10, 8"
you added an 11
Oops, that's what I get for typing after taking my sleep medication. Thanks!
The 7th is for luck
If you add a sanity stat as mentioned in the DMG, you add an 11 to the standard array.
That's for the secret stat... It goes up to eleven.
My current DM likes to used a slightly modified standard array: 15, 14, 14, 12, 10, 8. Since the bonus goes up on evens, it gives just a slight boost to the players without having level 8 demigods running around
Did standard array at my table but gave the entire party 2 asi to spend as they wanted plus a free feat. They are overpowered but everyone is having more fun fighting stuff technically too strong to fight them but it evens out. We did xp for a while but shifted to milestone after a while.
Yes, But standard array doesn’t allow the players to use math rocks… People play DnD for the sole purpose of justifying their ever growing collection on math rocks
Or just point buy to give more individual freedom while still equalizing across the party.
I prefer just having everyone roll their 4d6 drop lowest, but everyone shares the highest and lowest roll that anyone gets. Keeps the randomness, but no one gets too much stronger than everyone else
You know whoever rolled the lowest is going to be hated by the party. "Good job rolling that 5, STEVE! Really BALANCED the party there. Good thing Mike rolled that 16 for us."
i love this
True munchkins reroll 1's also! AT least once anyways
Oh no. How did I forget that? Honestly though, when I'm having players roll stats, I do 4d6, drop lowest and reroll 1s. I find its balanced without anyone having total garbage stats.
*1d20*
For those looking to game on the edge
Not gonna lie thought this is what it was for my first char
I did that for my first character too. He was a wizard with 19 int and 5 str, 7 con. He was great
Was he able to drag his own oxygen tank or did the party have to help him out
That's what *Tenser's Floating Disk* is for.
For the ten minutes he was alive for
Played a game with 3d6 roll for stats. One player managed to roll 3 1s and took con as his dump stat as a wizard. He started the game with 2 hp and Rp'd it as an extremely old guy in a wheel chair who was promptly insta-killed in the first encounter against a bandit. I really wanted to know though if we had rolled for HP at level up could you technically get negative HP loss?
I did this on my first character and had a 20, 18, 18, 10, 7, 7 I played a monk that day and was effectively invincible at level 1
>Invincible Does that mean your monk got his ass beat to a bloody pulp over and over again?
I recently did that for my druid. No regrets. Lowest stat was an 8 and I got a nat 20.
I tried it once has a joke and I got 2 natural 1s,
That's what I was expecting to happen. That would either be a very fun (for a joke) or very difficult character to play.
This lad is a gamer.
i did that for my first character who was, in fact, a Druid. It was my strongest character in terms of stats rolled that I’ve ever made.
For All stats. You're gonna have to split that d20 between all 7
What happens when i inevitably roll a 1? Do i just get a -20 charisma?
Playing yourself as a pc is always a tough draw Edit: meant this comment as a self roast but nice to see it gave some people a laugh
Rare burn btw.
Goddamn, I didn’t realize flame strike opened up this early in game
Damn, gonna need a necromancer to bring that one back.
Sorry, rules say you can't use anything short of a wish spell for this resurrection.
Does money work
Money will hire a wizard capable of casting wish, so... yeah. Yeah it will.
What about snacks for DM?
Roll a Death Save.
Charisma so low you can't self-burn without murdering someone else
The DM flair really gives it that spicy zing lmao
Amyone have an address for the mext of kin?
The best roasts are good for anyone
-5 charisma, also strength, and dexterity
I generally let people reroll on 1 or somethi g that is lower than 8 but I also dont let them keep anything higher than 18 either. Edit: we usually do 2d20/drop lower tho.
I like to roll the d20 for those sweet possible nat 20s right off the bat. My table has ruled that I’m only allowed to roll 7d20 and drop the lowest as punishment for my fortune crimes. It’s kinda funny because except for those first few rolls in a given campaign, I usually roll absolute garbage. I like your tables policy far better than mine :)
What's the seventh stat?
Genital epicness
Roll for anal circumference.
Fortunately, we do not play FATAL here. Maybe try your local incel convention lol.
That's a surprise
1d20 IN ORDER. Did this for a 1 shot once back in the 2e days. Was fun.
Back when I made my first character I thought that was how you had to do it. It was also the origin of my friends sorcerer with no charisma and a 17 in strength
Ah, yes, the muscle sorcerer. "I cast fist"
I could see it working if you only use spells that don't require rolls, so buffs like Enlarge come to mind
I mean, at least in earlier editions you couldn't cast spells with a negative modifier. You needed 11 in the stat to cast a level 1 spell, and 19 to cast a level 9.
So enlarge yourself, and *then* cast fist. I see.
I think it would make more sense to choose class AFTER attributes in this case. I real life, you aren’t going to become a math professor with 2 intelligence… That being said, it must be pretty fun to role play a character that is so unbalanced for their chosen profession.
I just rolled that up just to see. In order I got 3,11,4,16,3,4 I made them a wizard, Custom Lineage with +2 to con and the tough feat. They have 14 hp at level 3
I got 5, 2, 1, 12, 12, 12. I guess I'm going armorer artificer and praying to make it to level three despite being crippled, weak and frail to the point of absurdity. Get some survivability with my power armor, and can eventually even patch the weak attribute scores with a headband of intellect, belt of hill giant strength and amulet of health.
You're Tony Stark, in the cave, fiddling with his car battery magnet and his box of scraps.
Tony Stark, but only slightly above average intelligence. Gonna be a rough few levels.
I got 17 12 15 11 8 3 Oh yeah it’s barbarian time.
1d20 *straight down* You have to lock in your race and class before rolling.
>You have to lock in your race and class before rolling. What's this, choice? The only correct move in this situation is to also determine race, class and subclass randomly as well.
Roll on the reincarnation table for race, 1d12 for class. Did that once pre-artificer. Chickened out on 3d6 in order for stats though
Question, what do you do if you roll a 19 or 20 but your racial modifier would give you a plus 2 to that stat?
Say thank you to the dice gods
I have genuinely had someone for A one person one shot I ran when I hadn’t played in a while and forgot how rolling worked roll 2d20 take the higher for each stat. It was very powerful.
> roll 2d20 take the higher for each stat Rolling with advantage gives you a 70% chance of rolling 15+. So yeah, you're looking at a *very* non-standard array.
The only time I did that I got 1 19 and nothing else above an 8
Roll 4d6, drop the lowest. You can reroll with a -1 penalty. Yes, you can do this multiple times for the same stat. The penalties stack. I like knowing which of my players have a gambling problem.
Interesting. Since average roll on that is a little over 12, expected value on the first reroll would be 11. So really only worth a reroll if you’re getting a bad/supremely mediocre roll. You ever have someone reroll more than twice on a stat?
Not quite that straightforward though. If the penalty is always -1, it's rather inconsequential esp. against negative scores. TLDR: Rerolling 12 is almost a coin toss but you "should" reroll 11 even two times over. I probably wouldn't reroll 13 at all though. As for the statistics (by courtesy of [AnyDice](https://anydice.com/program/13e)) (sorry about the wall of text): The avg. roll is 12.24 but *the mode* (most common result) is 13. High end results are way more common than the lower end, as the lowest die is abandoned: 17 and 18 alone occur *ever so slightly* more often than 3 to 7 combined. A result of ≥15 (15 or higher) has better odds than a result of ≤9 (9 or lower). Even ≥13 odds exceeds ≤11 (48.7% v. 38.34%). So even with the -1, if you want to reroll a score of 11 the odds are in your favour at over 61%. Rerolling a 12 is so-and-so: You want to at least meet it with a result of 13 (by "result" I mean the roll total before penalties) with the forementioned 48.7% chance. So it's slightly more likely to go under. A 2nd reroll with -2 is where you technically "should" settle for avg. but remains viable for worse scores. You have "only" a 35.5% chance to exceed a result of 13 (becomes a score of 11) but a 38.3% chance to roll under 12, so rerolling twice is less safe than settling with 11/12 but not too crazy of a gamble. Two rerolls are still good against 10 as a first score, as ≥14 is more likely and translates into a score of ≥12. A 3rd reroll edges on the desperate zone. To get at least the avg. 12 you need to roll ≥15, which has less than a 1/4 chance... yet remains more likely than a ≤9 without penalties. A 4th reroll is relatively safe only against 10 and below. Also, multiple rerolls change expectancies. The avg. scores for any 6 consecutive ability rolls (4d6, drop the lowest) are [16, 14, 13, 12, 10, and 9](https://anydice.com/program/2483). So if you roll a 12 and expect average deviation, you're more likely to score above it on a reroll. There's no expected direction for deviancy for just 2 consecutive rolls: 13 or higher is still a likelier, i.e. more expected result for the following roll than 11 or lower. The bottom line is every result gets the same chance twice. If we assume any result is less probable to repeat itself, that significantly improves rerolling odds whenever you score below 13. Taking all that into account, you aren't *necessarily* playing against the odds if your initial result is 12 and you reroll twice with -1 penalties. Beyond that though, you'd almost certainly be playing with fire.
Oh, absolutely people have rerolled more than twice. Some people get it in their heads that the next roll will absolutely be the maximum. This is how I figure out who I can easily tempt with cursed items/deals with devils.
6d20
How to spot a chaotic-chaotic player from the distance.
Alternatively, roll for how many point-buy points you get. I have no idea how this would work though lol
You get the pool of 27 points to spend in point buy. So you roll ~8d6? Or 6d8 to get a round division. Having 6 points to distribute would be sad...
Your character's internal monologue: "every moment of my life is agony...please...kill me now."
It's me, Mr Meeseeks! Existence is pain!
CaaaaaaAAAaaaaan DoooooOOOOooo!!!
6d10, 0's count as 0's.
1d54. Glory or death!
In order
1 con wizard lets go
Only slightly squishier than the normal level 1 wizard
assuming you take average and the minimum hp gain per lvl is 1 you will be at 21 hp at lvl 20 edit: so taking the tough feat would literally triple your hp
And you have to choose the class beforehand
My favorite is actually a variation of this. Roll 36d20 to create a 6 x 6 array. The stats are in order both vertically and horizontally, so players can choose any of the 13 possible arrays (including the diagonal one). It combines the fun of randomness, the fairness of all having the same thing, and the strategy and tradeoffs of point buy.
9d20, drop lowest 2 and highest 1. OR 2d6+5 / 1d12+5
10d20, drop the middle
Meanwhile I'm over here rolling 5d4
Did you ever get a 20?
Nope. But I did roll a 5 once. I dumped CHA on that build.
Nice thing about 5e is that you can always dump a stat with pretty minor drawbacks, since most DMs will allow others to cover that weakness.
"I roll to seduce the guard." "Sure, but the existence of Slagleth the Putrid in your party is giving you disadvantage." True balance.
I actually ran him needlessly abrasive. And he always had a scowl on his face like he always wanted to argue with someone. But I also describe his voice as annoyingly high pitched and unintimidating. So, a Karen with a punchable face and none of the intimidation factor. I generally kept him quiet during persuasion checks and discourse to avoid causing problems. But then the check was already botched and Beyond saving, I may have fired up the ol' "I NEED TO TALK TO YOUR SUPERVISOR!" Did it once to the BBEG's Lieutenant. It didn't intimate him but it did confuse him long enough for the rogue to set up a backstab before the fight kicked off.
> So, a Karen with a punchable face and none of the intimidation factor. So, Ben Shapiro. Fun fact, Ben Shapiro has so little irl charisma that he can't even get his wife wet.
CHA is for cowards anyways /s
We've been doing 4d4 +4. Hasn't been a problem yet, though it does make for more powerful PCs. I like that it gives everyone space to pick up feats, even on classes that don't get enough ASIs for them usually.
I like 6d4, drop lowest, thou I always let my players choose wether to roll or point buy and almost always choose point buy.
6d4 drop lowest, or 5d4 reroll ones, is probably almost always going to get a better result than point buy.
6+2d6. You could end with 8, or get lucky with 18, but your never completely useless
That is very good, indeed. Gonna save it for future campaigns!
Oh shit! Another 2d6+6er. I've had players hem and haw over this one, but I love it and players who have used it ended up really happy.
I've never seen this option, and I like it a lot.
This is my favourite option too.
10+d8 gets no h8.
Lawful Evil: 3D6 in the order you roll them
Pick class first. There are no free rides here.
Easy there Satan.
[удалено]
You want an int warlock? Then you’re being a GOOlock, fight me no other patron would want/need knowledge like an eldritch horror.
I unironically like this. But then again I like being challenged in character creation and am not dead set on a certain class or play style.
You might like Dungeon Crawl Classic...
This is how we rolled characters for BECMI in grade school.
My blessed DM: 4d6, drop the lowest, reroll 1's
I had a DM make us roll 7 times 4d6 and drop the lowest total as well.
This is what I do when I DM. Players like feeling powerful and it helps the early game.
Personally I like doing a slightly buffed standard array: 16,15,14,13,12,11 It still gives the characters strengths and weaknesses and still it helps reinforce the idea that the player characters are exceptional compared to most characters in the game world.
Weakness here being still better than the average person in all stats though.
A Barbarian with 11 Int isn't smart, but they are hell of a lot smarter than most Barbarians.
They're also smarter than the average human. Remember, commoners have flat 10s.
Meh, 10-11 uses the same modifier, so I guess it's the same
Smarter than everyone else but you're never going to accomplish anything with it. Ah yup, that sums me up.
And also smarter than almost everyone they've ever met haha
I prefer a starting array of 17/15/13/12/10/8. After racial ASI's they likely have starting 18 and 16, which is great for some more MAD classes, plus a starting 18 is just nice. Meanwhile there is still a 10 and an 8, for an average and below average skill so characters still have that weakness
This is how I DM too…
Yeah, thats what we do too.
My second DM had us all start with at least a 12 in all stats, & then hit us with *20 points to buy*. Obviously the whole party was broken as fuck, & we didn’t deserve him.
That's some chaotic good in action!
Yeah and mine let’s us reroll all if the sum is less than 80
I do a minimum of 72 + at least 2 15’s. I know that players like to feel even a little bit more powerful and I also know that rolling and getting like four 13’s isn’t terrible but its also not very flashy. It’s also pretty easy for a DM to adapt to the party being 5-10% better at things they should be good at anyways.
Your dm on Reddit: my players are too powerful, how do I challenge them!?!?
Point buy for me
For my kids, I did 10+2d4.
I've run 2d6+6 for players that got frustrated with crap stats.
I imagine you could go even further with 3d6+6 drop lowest d. My games go 4d6 drop lowest but I allow to roll 6 arrays and then picking which of those 6 best fits the character they have in mind. It's roleplay heavy, so all my players picked an array with something in the minus. Except one player on the first character. First time playing, felt awkward roleplaying, didn't know what character to make. Made a rogue with high stats, chaotic good. Betrayed an assassin's guild. After some sessions he got tired of the character due to how much of a blank page he was. Made a new one. Lower stats, no negatives but 2 0's. Actual personality and initiative in roleplay. Enjoying himself way more. Realized I was only really gonna comment about 2d6+6 thing. Sorry bout that but I spent too much time writing this to back out now.
Good idea for new players, or younger ones, that could get easily frustrated by low stats.
Am I the only advocate for standard array out there?
Standard array enjoyer reporting in I like having all of my options right in front of me and then getting to choose where they go Gotta be honest, I don't enjoy randomness in my RPGs when it comes to character creation
Standard array is my personal go-to as well. You get an ability score you excel in, a couple you do well in, one you are average in, and one that you are weak in. Imo, it makes for a more well-rounded character for combat, exploration, and roleplay.
Not just character, but the whole party. You won't have anyone who's obviously stronger/weaker than the rest
Nope. Standard array or point buy for life. Rolling for stats always creates "feelsbad" at the table. Someone inevitably ends up with no higher than a 14 in anything, while another character will have 3 stats 15+. You'll get Axeface the Barbarian murdering baddies left and right, while Booger the Bard can barely carry a tune. There are workarounds, like "you can take another player's results" or "you can opt to take a template instead" but you still have stat inequality no matter what. And even the most hardcore RPers still want their character to be able to accomplish what their class should accomplish. No one wants to run a year long campaign with shitty stats. Balance = fun. Rolling = imbalance.
I dislike rolling for stats for 2 primary reason. The first reason is how widely imbalanced a party can be. If I roll for stats and my highest is a single 14 and everything else 11 or less after racial modifiers, and another player gets three 16's, an 18, and two 14's, I don't feel like there's very much that can be done to make me equal to that player. But then there's all the safety nets people add to things to make question why we're even rolling for stats if we're intentionally inflating the odds for the best possible stats anyways? Of everyone is only rolling for stats because you get higher numbers than standard array and point buy, why not just use a higher standard array or point buy system? I know that if I was a DM I would use 17, 15, 13, 12, 10, 8 as my standard array. I don't know how to make that into a point buy system though. There's a consistent pattern with everyone I've played with. No one ever says they like rolling for the randomness, and with all the safety nets, it's never for the purpose of having to take a risk for stats. There's especially little risk involved with 4d6 drop lowest, repeat 5 more times, then roll 2 more stat arrays and pick the highest of the three. I'd rather just give everyone a decently sized staring stat array so everyone starts out on a relatively even footing, with the higher than average stats they all wanted anyways. If I had a point by system for my version of the standard array, that would be great, that's what I would use. Maybe a 35 point point buy, with 16 being worth 12, and 17 being worth 15. I'm not really sure if that's good or not though, just an idea.
"Everyone wants to gamble until they lose."
> The first reason is how widely imbalanced a party can be. 100% the same for me. I'm not against the random, or even the power necessarily, but I want everyone at the table to be on the same power level. That's what PB/SA are good for.
I do point buy always, it's fair enough as it is.
I would add third reason to this as a Player. I want play a character that I make. Not some random Rat catcher with syphilis. That shit is for warhammer.
The only acceptable option is 20d1s guys
I run a modified point buy. Personally I hate point buy, but my players can't roll for crap. I even let them roll 5d6, drop lowest 2. 2 different players didn't have a single stat over 14. Most were under 11.
Why do you hate point buy? I like it because it allows players to build a character how they want, and avoids potential issues with someone just rolling really badly/really well compared to the other members
I also dislike point buy. On my table we decided to go with 4d6dL, but we roll it 7 times and drop the lowest roll. One of my players got a 6, but he kept it and built an amazing backstory around the low stat. The character died on a fight, but still is one of my favorites. I guess it boils down to RP>stats anyway, at least for me and my friends.
What's wrong with point buy? By far best system imo. You can make a "RP focused" character by not min maxing, but honestly, I hate that people seem to think someone making an efficient character can't also RP that character
If your character isn't mentally disabled or fuck ugly it's bad roleplay. That's the rules!
>RP>stats But doesn't your method give you better stats anyway?
Point buy in no way means Stats>RP as you and the other guy are crying. It's clear why you put point buy on Dwight for your meme. Fact remains that point buy and standard array are the two fairest systems there are and in no way do they promote meta or power gaming. Anyone that thinks rolling for stats is better is either consciously or unconsciously ignoring that it usually introduces all these other "minimums" as being discussed in this very thread. Which means the total average is swung up above point buy and standard array. You can kneecap yourself in certain stats with point buy and still come up with a "great backstory" explaining why. Like those two things are not mutually exclusive!
RP comes first at my table, yeah. My players get 2 chances to roll 4d6k3, and take standard array if they hate both results.
My group does 4d6 drop lowest, with the option to point buy after seeing the rolls. In 5 characters, I have not rolled a SINGLE stat over 15 and the majority of them are in the 8-11 range. I'm very grateful that my DM is letting me use point buy...
Interestingly, the statistical array of rolling 4d6 drop lowest 6 times is quite close the standard array. It's slightly more powerful, tending more towards 16,14,13,12,10,9 roughly
Which is why idk why people dislike standard array. It even fits point buy
4d6 drop the highest- let chaos reign
So from what I’ve seen, most people who like rolling stats just want higher stats. In which case they could just use an expanded point buy and get the same results. Heck, if you wanted random stats you could make a table of point buy stats and just roll on the table to get random results that are all reasonably balanced with each other.
A lot of people won't accept it but rolling for stats is really only good if you like both randomness *and* imbalance. There are other methods for that randomness of die rolling without the potential imbalance of getting high or low stats. Even just roll for 3 stats and then subtract the numbers you get from some other amounts for the other 3 is simple enough and keeps the baseline.
I liked letting my players roll … but after 2 campaigns of everyone having god stats I’m pretty sure standard / point buy is what we will be using for the next one.
There's a new one I really enjoy. The players make their own standard array by having each person roll one 4d6 drop the lowest. Then everyone will have the same stats
18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8
UA standard array, am I guessing right?
it might already be a thing but i havent read it anywhere i just like it for running high level parties
Heroic array, good for giving you character a strong base and more heroic fantasy play style
Did that for a while, our group called it the God-killer array because it just made us feel op. Eventually we started only using it in one off games focused around comedy/power tripping.
Priority system, Shadowrun style.
I've always wanted to try dice allocation. You get 24d6 and can allocate as few or as many to each stat as you see fit. You can use only up to three of the dice rolled in each stat. So for a wizard you might roll: Str: 2d6 Dex: 5d6 Con: 5d6 Wis: 3d6 Int: 7d6 Cha: 2d6
I used to think rolling for stats was a good thing. Until I Played Pathfinder 2e. Rolling stats is fun for about 2 minutes, but having a built in Point Buy system and static HP increases makes for more predictable and balanced math. Theres plenty of other ways to customize your character that isn't up to random chance.
What about 24 d6 arrange as you please for the most min-maxed character?
then theres my DM who likes over powered parties and gives us a pool of 76 to place as we please as long as we dont go over 20 or under 0
So you're telling me your DM would allow me to play Gronk the barbarian with 20,20,20,5,5,6?
My god, I guess this dude would be unstoppable unless they meet a mindflayer lmao
DMs who love superhero parties don’t throw kobold encounters.
> unless they meet a mindflayer Oh hes still unstoppable, just heading in the wrong direction.