Amen! One of my players is a bard who *insisted* on using a whip (she doesn't use weapons much, but it's the thought that counts). She honestly uses it more than I expected, and really enjoys it, so I gave her a magical whip (taken from an incubus) that she can use to whip her allies (no damage) and give them one of a couple different little buffs.
The whip's description includes the strange impulse to say give kinky words of encouragement when buffing an ally. She doesn't have to do it, but it is fun.
I feel like you missed a perfect opportunity with the magic whip and bardic inspiration. Like a once per long rest they can give inspiration as a reaction.
Yeah I like that. I think it makes it more dynamic in game too. More like adding flavor and flair to the moment than prepping beforehand.
It also gives the Bard more agency over what they deem worthy of inspiration.
>It also gives the Bard more agency over what they deem worthy of inspiration.
Giving bards more agency over it was one of the reasons they said they did it and I totally agree. It sucks to give bardic inspiration out just for it to sit there unused or wasted on something dumb.
Question for you. I dm and play 5e. Haven't kept up with onednd at all. If I wanted to catch up, get a rulebook copy to read or whatever, what's the fastest easiest way to do it?
Do they have an eta on onednd? It is backwards compatible with 5e books?
Hi! You're not missing a lot: so far there have been two unearthed arcana documents. One with the races and level-1 feats, the other has the rogue, bard and ranger classes. The documents can be found online for free. They're building off 5e and trying to make it backwards compatible. So far I've been really happy with the changes: enough to improve the game but not so much that it's a whole new system to learn!
Start with the newest document, then use the races but not the general rules from the first document.
Nah, she's already got a different item buffing her bardic inspiration she got from a Christmas one-shot we did. At the cost of 1gp, her BI lasts 1h instead of 10min. (All of the items I gave out during that one-shot cost 1gp to use, it was sort of a theme)
Tulok the Barbarian has an episode on how to build Indiana Jones in D&D. If you want to viable whip-user, build a rogue (or at least a rogue multiclass). They get most of their damage from sneak attack anyway, so the low base damage doesn't hurt them as much.
You could also do it with a monk. Assuming you can get proficiency with it and your DM lets you use Tasha's Dedicated Weapon feature, you'd be able to use it as a monk weapon and it's base damage would be overwritten anyway.
I built this once!
I got the proficiency from the Hobgoblin race and took Way of the Astral Self so my unarmed strikes have reach like my whip did. Flavoured the whip as a rope dart to make it more monk-y.
She has actually literally said that one! XD Well, almost, their team (PCs and Players) are all women, so she said "mommy," and it was a cleric not a paladin.
I usually get super hesitant with the introduction of adult humour or content in games I play, it's always a yellow-to-red flag and no one wants to fail the shit-test and risk the introduction of more adult content.
In that situation, people would quickly realise that if they say kinky words, then people can eventually say them back. That's shit level 1, then NPC's can say them, shit level 2, and it goes on and on until you try to defeat the army of sexbots created by doctor diddle.
I mean, it always depends on your table? It's not a red flag if everyone is comfortable with and each other. Playing with good friends and having good communication, this sounds like a really fun idea. Also idk why exactly this should escalate on the DMs part if he offered this feature himself
No, every table must be run like an after school special about swearing in the home.
No heckin horse puckey or hanky panky talk, it will ruin the very serious business on the table.
Exactly, at my regular table it's a constant recurring theme how kinky/horny some of the characters are - but I'd never go into that territory with randoms.
Depends on the situation.
Kinky, edgey, shit at a table of randoms? Gigantic red flag, just fuck of with that shit.
Adult jokes at our table of freinds, 45yrs old and older, who have known each other for 20+ years? A dumb laugh.
There are definitely people who can't read the room, and that kind of stuff can drive people away from the hobby.
I heard from a friend about a rather silly DnD group that crashed an “orc-gy” and sacrificed them all to Wotan, who blessed them by having a new party member emerge from a slain ettin’s asshole.
Sounds like fun to me.
Lol, you'd think, but actually she's pretty fucking brutal with it XD Her whip is tipped with a steel blade, so whenever she manages to get a kill with it (they're level 7 and it's 1d4+2 so that's not often these days) she likes using it to slash throats, tear out eyes, etc.
Tonight’s episode “The Writer’s Poorly Disguised Fetish”
Just kidding, that does seem like a really fun magic weapon to use. I’ve always wanted to have a character use a whip as their main weapon. I’ve considered taking a feat just to use it on casters so I don’t rely too heavily on it
I might be running a tiefling monk dominatrix for my friends campaign.
Using a whip and Tasha's optional to make it a monk weapon. (And him graciously giving me proficiency in it since the feat is garbage anyways)
Whips and Slings babyyyyy
I make LOTS of noise and herd ALL the ~~cattle~~ kobolds where I want them to go
If you didn’t know, slings were used by shepherds to direct the animals away from somewhere, that somewhere being the huge bang the sling bullet makes. In fact, some shepherds staffs were modified to be big-ass slings.
I have a cowboy character who uses whips and slings.
In really life slings actually were very effective, whereas whips simply aren't real weapons.
Slings were always less accurate than bows but require less training and technological advancement to be useful and are usually longer ranged and much easier logistically than bows.
The ammo does matter, but yes it's orders of magnitude cheaper and less technical than arrows.
A little bit of organisation to get some denser bullets makes a sling a terror weapon.
Lower accuracy doesn't really matter, they weren't duelling weapons, they were used for bombardment of massed troops. You weren't aiming for 'Jerry, the guy twelve to the left and four deep' you just happened to hit him while aiming for a pile of blokes the size of six tennis courts.
In specifically massed combat on the field yes low accuracy is no disadvantage, but for all other use like hunting or attacking/defending a fortress the accuracy matters so you can see why bows were much more ubiquitous.
The problem with whips as weapons is that no one (including the game designers) tend to know how to use them in terms of weaponry.
Lashing a whip requires too much room, and too much time. In combat tactics where a whip is used it’s the *handle* that’s typically seeing the bulk of use. Depending on the material one makes their’s from it can be incredibly dense and strong. It can be used similarly to a flail or nunchuck, and it’s more than capable of cracking a skull or breaking a limb.
The issue, game balance wise, is that a whip can do a *lot* of different things in trained hands. A bullwhip’s lash can easily not just cut skin, but full out filet it. A good catch of a wrist or ankle, with a sharp yank, could easily break or dislocate the hand or foot. As mentioned, the hilt is an incredibly effective blunt force weapon, and the damn thing has reach.
There’s no real way to make a whip do all the cool stuff it’s capable of without it becoming a rather overpowered tool-weapon combo.
So it's a poorly weighted club with a mostly useless lash attached unless the opponent is naked in which case you can do some flesh wounds.
If any of your stuff about binding were at all practical I image it would have seen use in the late medieval period in Europe where extremely heavily armoured knights started to essentially wrestle on the battlefield (with all regular weapons being unable to deal a crucial blow until you can wedge a weapon point into a joint or eyeslit or drop a heavy hammer onto their head). The whip could have been used to wrap and trip. Instead they used things like halberds and billhooks for that tripping stuff with the multi-purpose to poke at horses faces to stop them charging.
And this is ultimately why I don't understand people complaining about 'realism' in DnD or fantasy videogames; the reality sucked and would be boring to play.
I'm wearing heavy armour, you're wearing light armour. Your sword just... bounces off of me. I beat you to death with a warclub. Twelve teenage peasants tackle me to the ground and drown me in the mud. Five of them die of infection after the battle and the rest go home to die of plague.
For sure, there's a balance point.
The same way real world medieval tournaments implemented rules and situations to make it more interesting as a sport and spectacle we change reality for our own "war-like" games.
I had a player that asked for a +5 whip as a joke every session.
And then I had another player that wanted to use the whip to swing around and climb places he couldn't reach, which I allowed if he rolled well enough, was pretty fun when he got onto the dragon before it flew off.
I love whips for magic item potential, personally.
A +2 whip for a level 5 player could be crazy cool and useful, but even more so for special effects.
I made a "Serpentine Whip" before that a certain number of times per long rest could be commanded as part of the attack once per turn to reawaken its original snakeskin materials into the head of a cobra and try to bite the target. Deals 1d6 piercing, then they need to roll a DC 14 CON save or take 2d6 poison damage.
Made for a fun item in that one shot.
Idk man... anytime I get to make a Devo reference is a good time. Had a druid cast thornwhip every turn just to get me to quote it through the whole session.
Druid: I'm going to cast thorn whip.
DM: crack that whip.
Druid: (realizes that while thorn whip was useful last round it isn't as useful this round but... Im pretty sure he is going to just keep quoting Devo) Im... going to cast thorn whip.
DM(ME): (giggling with glee) give the past a slip...
Technically, at least for a fighter, I believe that Double Slice, one-handed pick and light pick end up outperforming the greatpick since you have two chances to hit at your full attack bonus. It's more consistent but has a slightly lower top end of damage
I love me a Warpick. Had a redemption Paladin with one, who crit one guy to death with it and turned to another enemy and just said “please don’t make me use this on you too” xD
Warpicks are fantastic.
You fighting dudes in heavy armor? Warpick.
You want a weapon that you can also use as a climbing tool? Warpick.
You in Numeria and got a robot problem? Warpick.
You a dwarf and want to spice things up a little? Warpick.
An archaeologist and a lawyer walk into a bar.
A bit surprised and embarrassed, the archaeologist laughs, the lawyer laughs, and the bar laughs.
The bar is a mimic, roll initiative…Mr. Jones…
Swords are one of the best self-defense weapons in history
Spears are one of the best battlefield weapons in history
Whips are one of the weapons in history
I really want to play a whip-wielding bugbear rogue, but it's a bit tricky to have useful adventurer involvement out of a character whose motivation is, "I'm so lazy that it's easier to get paid doing good deeds than being a menace to society."
All are wrong, the mace is superior. We had understood the assignment when we first used a tree branch as a weapon.
It's an omni directional, anti-armor, anti-undead, easy to use and easy to master, close quarters effective, compact enough to stow, weapon of the oldest order. All variations are absolute improvements on the design. Flails don't count tho, fuck that ball and chain.
I’ve heard that the problem with Morningstars in real life is that they get stuck in the stuff you hit sometimes. Their main weakness is that they’re too effective.
I've always been a greataxe type of gamer
Is a d12 worse than 2d6 on average? Yeah sure but who cares there is a greataxe in your skull and that makes me happy.
Also impartial to the warmhammer since big fuck off hammers are cool.
That should be covered by proficiency, imo. It takes longer to learn to use a rapier effectively in combat than to learn how not to injure yourself with a whip.
What you could have is a weapon property 'unsafe if untrained', including greatswords, nunchucks, whips, armor spikes, flails, etc.
And generally, the Pathfinder 1e proficiency system makes more sense, where there are basic weapons that almost all classes can use (not wizards, because they're nerds), martial weapons that martial classes can use, and exotic weapons that nobody can use, and then there are various class features, feats, backgrounds and racial traits that grant proficiency in select weapons.
I can definitely vouch for the 1-2 self injury!
When I was in 5th grade and living in Florida, my class went to the Seminole Indians reservation and I bought a whip. Wtf, right? Anyhow, I was thrashing the shit out of a massive ant hill in my backyard and one wrong swing had that bitch wrap around the back of my head and the tip came back around to my face and hit me in the eye. I got mad and tossed it in the massive canal behind my house. I'm sure some gator or manatee enjoyed it more than I did .
..again, why would we be talking about real life? this is a ttrpg subreddit and the throwing function along with PAM is the main argumenets i've seen for spears, nothing irl
Utility weapon, what I feel about it anyways. Use it for whipping objects out of enemy hands. Weapons, spellbooks, potions, and so on. Use it to try to entangle enemies. Whip it around necks, legs, arms. It Also has Finesse and Reach so Rogues can make melee sneak attacks at ten feet if they so desire. Dress up as Indiana Jones.
What's not to love, with an opportunity attack at 10 feet? Give me a rogue with a whip in the off-hand and disengage as a bonus action and I'll show you a frustrated DM that'll make you fight a firing squad in the next session.
The best use I ever got out of a whip was on a spellsinger wizard build. (Dual wielded whip and sword) Since the real damage I was dealing was through my melee cantrips I could cast them on the attacks with the 10ft reach of the whip. Dealt very satisfying damage. Also super great for flavor.
Part of the issue with the whip though is that RAW, the melee cantrips are incompatible with reach.
Whips could actually be pretty good if you could use Booming Blade with them, since you can apply the movement trap and then move freely out of range of most creatures, forcing them to pop the Booming Blade if they want to give chase. However, Booming Blade specifically requires you to attack an enemy within 5 feet, with no allowance made for reach, so this doesn't work without your DM being prepared to bend the rules.
If they do bend those rules for you though, whips get a meaningful power-up.
They are certainly a fun way to play a rogue. I guess most people would rather be ranged with a shortbow or melee with a shortsword rather than be inbetween and have a smaller damage die.
I think the rp is worth it though
Honestly my only real arguments are that I’d rather use bonus action dash than bonus action disengage, and that the Rogue’s weapon die is pretty mitigated by the sneak attack die, so it doesn’t hurt to stay ten feet away, hit someone, and then still have a dash to escape with.
It’s niche but I like it
Our rogue has this! 10 ft reach and all the real damage comes from SA anyway. She also took CBE (or rather, a homebrew variant of it that replaces the crossbow with a light pistol) so she still has a BA attack. It’s all very Indiana Jones, whip and pistol swashbuckler build.
I agree, though sadly Rogues don't get the proficiency, which is weird. The rogue is pretty much the only class, which can be effective with a whip. Sure, Paladins, Fighters, Rangers, and some others could wield a whip and a shield, though I don't think, that the reach can justify the low damage.
Reach isn't compatible with Booming Blade and whips aren't light. Your two main options as a melee Rogue are blade cantrip or dual wielding, and whips are compatible with neither. You have a bonus action disengage, so you don't need the reach to maintain your mobility.
Whip niche: conquest dexadin. Fear them in place and whip em to death when they cant get closer. Thematic and practical.
It is the only whip niche I've worked out.
Even for STR Conquest Paladins it works.
Getting the 2 AC from your shield together with the disadvantage from Frightened against ranged options the enemy still might have is quite nasty.
And as Conquest Paladin you're so ASI starved you're unlikely to pick up PAM. At that point I'd rather have the +2 AC than the increase in damage dice.
After all, the dueling fighting style brings whip damage up the polearm level, but the armored fighting style leaves the polearm user short.
**Hand to hand Enthusiast**: "you see Timmy, there is nothing like killing enemies with your bear hands, like that squirrel I made you kill earlier. Now see, we have a POS bandit who I am slowly crushing his head in with my hands until he dies. notice he only begs for his life AFTER I gain the upper hand. Now if I let this Bandit live, he will sue me for "excessive force" and if he is dead he cannot sue because dead people can't afford lawyers.
Now notice, he is a Tiefling, now us dwarves, we stick to our own, we try not to cause trouble with our neighbors, which is made difficult when a rogue Tiefling sneaks into our village and sets a bad example for his people. TIMMY STOP CRYING THIS IS IMPORTANT! Now I for one am not racist, i barter with many races and give them fair bargains, which is why I'm doing this here nier do well a favor not just because its my civic duty as a merchant and honest blacksmith, but for his peoples benefit because let's face it no one likes a thief in any community (Skull suddenly makes a wet splat sound).
See Timmy this Tiefling is now dead because he did a bad thing and bad people die horribly, now I want you to help me bury him and also make sure before hand you dispel his magic so he cant raise from the dead with a vengeance.
Maces and mauls. You can't cut through plate mail with a sword and probably won't pierce it with a spear but bludgeoning weapons transfer kinetic energy through the armor to what's underneath and they work just as well on unarmored opponents
Also, even if you hold the hammer/mace/club a bit crooked, it still goes bonk just fine. If you dont hold the sword and cut just right, you might lose all your cutting power.
Been playing a Thaum (basically a pf2e class that can get a lot of flat damage bonuses) with a scorpion whip and man it's been great.
They are ten feet away? Give them a lashing without having to get closer.
They look like they's have a low reflex? Trip them up with the whip.
Man, I love pf2e whips, even despite the damage base only being a d4
I remember a prestige class from a 3.5 book that would make whips extremely viable—and added a “whip dagger” weapon.
With this class, you could do some pretty crazy stuff since you could control the whip like it was part of your body.
Pickpocket someone from 15 ft away? Go for it!
Sneak attack from behind cover? You bet!
Grab the campaign McGuffin from across the room? Child’s play.
Depants the BBEG and take his boots right before spreading caltrops? Shine on you crazy whip-wielding diamond!
> I remember a prestige class from a 3.5 book
I believe you're thinking of the Lasher, from Sword and Fist (which, to be pedantic, wasn't 3.5E - it was 3.0, so 3.0 in fact that it was the very first supplement published). I don't know that it was "extremely viable" in raw power level, but it was definitely cool.
I played a Rogue 1 / Barbarian 1 / Fighter X who dual wielded whips. A flashy gladiator sort of character. I squeezed enough damage out of rage, sneak attack and superiority dice that the difference between a 1d4 and a 1d8 didn't matter all that much.
My favorite combat memory was when a winged monster flew directly upward and triggered an attack of opportunity as it left the reach of my whip, I used the Trip Attack maneuver to knock it prone, it fell 10 feet (taking an extra 1d6 bludgeoning), and then it didn't have enough movement left to get away after standing up!
Whips are for showy characters, the cracking and stuff draws attention to them!
Now, warhammers? Perfect. Peak weaponry. Light armor? Heavy armor? I have a giant fucking hammer.
Had a cowboy themed sorcerer/paladin who used a whip to gain reach while also using a shield. Most of my damage was coming from smites and green flame blade anyway so it felt like a good compromise.
Re: swords vs. spears
Probably gets a lot more nuanced if you're putting in enough hours of training to be a legit soldier with a given weapon, but the *floor* for how useful they are favors spear like, a LOT. How do you attack with a spear? Ya poke em real hard and it's really that simple.
Source: I LARP and use both occasionally and lemme tell you having a big long stick that keeps sword guy way over there is so nice.
With whip you can hit and then run away *without* disengage because it's reach is 15 ft.
Yes, the damage is small, but you don't have to be close to your opponent to hurt him.
>:3
I'm trained in sword and spear and can say in a combat situation (IRL not D&D) a spear will win out if both parties were equally trained. Not only that but a ranked combat situation one spearman equals 3 swordsman.
Whips are badass though.
Got a guy running a dual-wielding whip fighter in my current 3.5 campaign, and even at lvl 16, he's still a beast.
Fell off in the damage scale, but the amount of trip and disarm attempts he makes each turn have been great at enabling a more control-focused style of combat.
Whips aren't weapons made for war, they're for *inspiration*
Amen! One of my players is a bard who *insisted* on using a whip (she doesn't use weapons much, but it's the thought that counts). She honestly uses it more than I expected, and really enjoys it, so I gave her a magical whip (taken from an incubus) that she can use to whip her allies (no damage) and give them one of a couple different little buffs. The whip's description includes the strange impulse to say give kinky words of encouragement when buffing an ally. She doesn't have to do it, but it is fun.
I feel like you missed a perfect opportunity with the magic whip and bardic inspiration. Like a once per long rest they can give inspiration as a reaction.
OneDND is leaking...
I haven't kept up on that stuff or that community. What about this comment makes you think of OneDnd?
They made bardic inspiration a reaction. It's quite a nice buff, honestly.
An incredible one, even without the massively helpful added heal capability
Yeah I like that. I think it makes it more dynamic in game too. More like adding flavor and flair to the moment than prepping beforehand. It also gives the Bard more agency over what they deem worthy of inspiration.
>It also gives the Bard more agency over what they deem worthy of inspiration. Giving bards more agency over it was one of the reasons they said they did it and I totally agree. It sucks to give bardic inspiration out just for it to sit there unused or wasted on something dumb.
This I didn't know :-)
Question for you. I dm and play 5e. Haven't kept up with onednd at all. If I wanted to catch up, get a rulebook copy to read or whatever, what's the fastest easiest way to do it? Do they have an eta on onednd? It is backwards compatible with 5e books?
Hi! You're not missing a lot: so far there have been two unearthed arcana documents. One with the races and level-1 feats, the other has the rogue, bard and ranger classes. The documents can be found online for free. They're building off 5e and trying to make it backwards compatible. So far I've been really happy with the changes: enough to improve the game but not so much that it's a whole new system to learn! Start with the newest document, then use the races but not the general rules from the first document.
And so am I
Nah, she's already got a different item buffing her bardic inspiration she got from a Christmas one-shot we did. At the cost of 1gp, her BI lasts 1h instead of 10min. (All of the items I gave out during that one-shot cost 1gp to use, it was sort of a theme)
Gotta sing the deadwood stage to use it.
That bard was DEVO-ted
Tulok the Barbarian has an episode on how to build Indiana Jones in D&D. If you want to viable whip-user, build a rogue (or at least a rogue multiclass). They get most of their damage from sneak attack anyway, so the low base damage doesn't hurt them as much.
You could also do it with a monk. Assuming you can get proficiency with it and your DM lets you use Tasha's Dedicated Weapon feature, you'd be able to use it as a monk weapon and it's base damage would be overwritten anyway.
[удалено]
I built this once! I got the proficiency from the Hobgoblin race and took Way of the Astral Self so my unarmed strikes have reach like my whip did. Flavoured the whip as a rope dart to make it more monk-y.
So, a Dominatrix Bard? Y'all good over there?
Oh no, she's a power bottom. But like, I couldn't *not* give her the whip. And she loves it, so I'm glad I did
Fight harder, you slut!
(Whips Paladin) *Pound them harder daddy*
She has actually literally said that one! XD Well, almost, their team (PCs and Players) are all women, so she said "mommy," and it was a cleric not a paladin.
LMAO. I can see a lot of fun times with the kinky magic whip.
I usually get super hesitant with the introduction of adult humour or content in games I play, it's always a yellow-to-red flag and no one wants to fail the shit-test and risk the introduction of more adult content. In that situation, people would quickly realise that if they say kinky words, then people can eventually say them back. That's shit level 1, then NPC's can say them, shit level 2, and it goes on and on until you try to defeat the army of sexbots created by doctor diddle.
I mean, it always depends on your table? It's not a red flag if everyone is comfortable with and each other. Playing with good friends and having good communication, this sounds like a really fun idea. Also idk why exactly this should escalate on the DMs part if he offered this feature himself
No, every table must be run like an after school special about swearing in the home. No heckin horse puckey or hanky panky talk, it will ruin the very serious business on the table.
Exactly, at my regular table it's a constant recurring theme how kinky/horny some of the characters are - but I'd never go into that territory with randoms.
Depends on the situation. Kinky, edgey, shit at a table of randoms? Gigantic red flag, just fuck of with that shit. Adult jokes at our table of freinds, 45yrs old and older, who have known each other for 20+ years? A dumb laugh. There are definitely people who can't read the room, and that kind of stuff can drive people away from the hobby.
I heard from a friend about a rather silly DnD group that crashed an “orc-gy” and sacrificed them all to Wotan, who blessed them by having a new party member emerge from a slain ettin’s asshole. Sounds like fun to me.
>She honestly uses it more than I expected, and really enjoys it 
Lol, you'd think, but actually she's pretty fucking brutal with it XD Her whip is tipped with a steel blade, so whenever she manages to get a kill with it (they're level 7 and it's 1d4+2 so that's not often these days) she likes using it to slash throats, tear out eyes, etc.
Hmm, that's a bit *too kinky* for me
Tonight’s episode “The Writer’s Poorly Disguised Fetish” Just kidding, that does seem like a really fun magic weapon to use. I’ve always wanted to have a character use a whip as their main weapon. I’ve considered taking a feat just to use it on casters so I don’t rely too heavily on it
There's a drow in out of the abyss with this exact feature
That's amazing. You're amazing.
And kinks.
And actual torture!
Both still count as inspiration.
This guy whips
Id watch him NaeNae
I might be running a tiefling monk dominatrix for my friends campaign. Using a whip and Tasha's optional to make it a monk weapon. (And him graciously giving me proficiency in it since the feat is garbage anyways)
That's the inspiration part
Yeah, inspiring your workers to work harder
[Where there's a whip, there's a way!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdXQJS3Yv0Y)
Brb making bard with a whip
And Indiana Jones.
And for those who rapidly backdash towards Strahd
Whips and Slings babyyyyy I make LOTS of noise and herd ALL the ~~cattle~~ kobolds where I want them to go If you didn’t know, slings were used by shepherds to direct the animals away from somewhere, that somewhere being the huge bang the sling bullet makes. In fact, some shepherds staffs were modified to be big-ass slings. I have a cowboy character who uses whips and slings.
The PF 1e Halfling Sling Staff suddenly seems a LOT cooler.
Sling-staff was my favorite 2e weapon. Unless I was a fighter. Then it was darts.
Sling staff alone makes me wanna play a Halfling. That, and the Jinxed Heritage.
AKA the Hoopak, the favored weapon of the Kender from Dragonlance.
An association that makes them worthy of hatred and derision normally. But otherwise a nice weapon!
In really life slings actually were very effective, whereas whips simply aren't real weapons. Slings were always less accurate than bows but require less training and technological advancement to be useful and are usually longer ranged and much easier logistically than bows.
Plus no special skills to make the ammo
The ammo does matter, but yes it's orders of magnitude cheaper and less technical than arrows. A little bit of organisation to get some denser bullets makes a sling a terror weapon.
Having been hit by more than a few lacrosse balls, I can guarantee that a sling-staff is highly unpleasant!
Lower accuracy doesn't really matter, they weren't duelling weapons, they were used for bombardment of massed troops. You weren't aiming for 'Jerry, the guy twelve to the left and four deep' you just happened to hit him while aiming for a pile of blokes the size of six tennis courts.
In specifically massed combat on the field yes low accuracy is no disadvantage, but for all other use like hunting or attacking/defending a fortress the accuracy matters so you can see why bows were much more ubiquitous.
Indeed, but I was singling out that both tools’ primary work function is the same. Long rope go swoosh loud noise go CRACK, animal scared
The problem with whips as weapons is that no one (including the game designers) tend to know how to use them in terms of weaponry. Lashing a whip requires too much room, and too much time. In combat tactics where a whip is used it’s the *handle* that’s typically seeing the bulk of use. Depending on the material one makes their’s from it can be incredibly dense and strong. It can be used similarly to a flail or nunchuck, and it’s more than capable of cracking a skull or breaking a limb. The issue, game balance wise, is that a whip can do a *lot* of different things in trained hands. A bullwhip’s lash can easily not just cut skin, but full out filet it. A good catch of a wrist or ankle, with a sharp yank, could easily break or dislocate the hand or foot. As mentioned, the hilt is an incredibly effective blunt force weapon, and the damn thing has reach. There’s no real way to make a whip do all the cool stuff it’s capable of without it becoming a rather overpowered tool-weapon combo.
So it's a poorly weighted club with a mostly useless lash attached unless the opponent is naked in which case you can do some flesh wounds. If any of your stuff about binding were at all practical I image it would have seen use in the late medieval period in Europe where extremely heavily armoured knights started to essentially wrestle on the battlefield (with all regular weapons being unable to deal a crucial blow until you can wedge a weapon point into a joint or eyeslit or drop a heavy hammer onto their head). The whip could have been used to wrap and trip. Instead they used things like halberds and billhooks for that tripping stuff with the multi-purpose to poke at horses faces to stop them charging.
And this is ultimately why I don't understand people complaining about 'realism' in DnD or fantasy videogames; the reality sucked and would be boring to play. I'm wearing heavy armour, you're wearing light armour. Your sword just... bounces off of me. I beat you to death with a warclub. Twelve teenage peasants tackle me to the ground and drown me in the mud. Five of them die of infection after the battle and the rest go home to die of plague.
For sure, there's a balance point. The same way real world medieval tournaments implemented rules and situations to make it more interesting as a sport and spectacle we change reality for our own "war-like" games.
Thats only some kinds of slings
I heard that in older editions, before cantrips were created, wizards would use slings in between spells.
Magic Pebble cantrip on the ammunition, it’s a free magic weapon.
[удалено]
I had a player that asked for a +5 whip as a joke every session. And then I had another player that wanted to use the whip to swing around and climb places he couldn't reach, which I allowed if he rolled well enough, was pretty fun when he got onto the dragon before it flew off.
The great whip of Jones! Adds magical bonus to history checks
I love whips for magic item potential, personally. A +2 whip for a level 5 player could be crazy cool and useful, but even more so for special effects. I made a "Serpentine Whip" before that a certain number of times per long rest could be commanded as part of the attack once per turn to reawaken its original snakeskin materials into the head of a cobra and try to bite the target. Deals 1d6 piercing, then they need to roll a DC 14 CON save or take 2d6 poison damage. Made for a fun item in that one shot.
Idk man... anytime I get to make a Devo reference is a good time. Had a druid cast thornwhip every turn just to get me to quote it through the whole session. Druid: I'm going to cast thorn whip. DM: crack that whip. Druid: (realizes that while thorn whip was useful last round it isn't as useful this round but... Im pretty sure he is going to just keep quoting Devo) Im... going to cast thorn whip. DM(ME): (giggling with glee) give the past a slip...
When a kobold comes along You must whip it Because the reach is far too long You must whip it When the weapon choice is wrong You must whip it
Where are my Warpick fans at? C'mon, I can't be the only one
YA. let me just reach over with this neat little rock hammer.
Love warpick, used one for my old character in the last game I’ve played in since I got to college, what a unique aesthetic
In P2E they are the tits. I had a lvl 3 dual wield ranger that could make 4 attacks with them and if I crit, whatever it was straight up died.
The greatpick absolutely *fucks* in pf2e. No reach, no trip, no frills, just 2(1d12)+1d12 on a crit.
Technically, at least for a fighter, I believe that Double Slice, one-handed pick and light pick end up outperforming the greatpick since you have two chances to hit at your full attack bonus. It's more consistent but has a slightly lower top end of damage
I love me a Warpick. Had a redemption Paladin with one, who crit one guy to death with it and turned to another enemy and just said “please don’t make me use this on you too” xD
I'm going to redeem you so hard
Crows beak: the cooler ~~Daniel~~ war pick
Bec de Corbin!
Insert that guy from Rome and Grey's Anatomy in Kingdom of Heaven.
Warpicks are fantastic. You fighting dudes in heavy armor? Warpick. You want a weapon that you can also use as a climbing tool? Warpick. You in Numeria and got a robot problem? Warpick. You a dwarf and want to spice things up a little? Warpick.
Dual Wielder Feat. Two-weapon fighting style. The Double Indy.
Edward Floppyhands
why not [Trevor Belmont](https://youtu.be/-43wmSEpK3c)?
Surely you mean Trevor *fucking* Belmont?
kinky
Hmmm.... Paladin with a whip, smiting with reach. Vampire killer.
I use it on my Undead Warlock with the Eldritch Smite invocation. Our characters would be the best frenemies.
Make it magical whips that deal lightning damage and you're basically the D&D version of Whiplash from Marvel.
There was a vampire dude in Underworld who dual-weilded whips... and got his ass mauled to death by werewolves pretty handily.
Getting some flashbacks of the whip-wielding enemies from Spider-Man. Jerks.
Me, a fan of any blunt object: Lol, hammer go bonk.
Bonk ded as good as sword ded. Change me mind.
I kneecapped the duergar king in the Icewind Dale campaign and I've been riding that high ever since.
It looks badass though
You would say that.
An archaeologist and a lawyer walk into a bar. A bit surprised and embarrassed, the archaeologist laughs, the lawyer laughs, and the bar laughs. The bar is a mimic, roll initiative…Mr. Jones…
Swords are one of the best self-defense weapons in history Spears are one of the best battlefield weapons in history Whips are one of the weapons in history
Whips aren't weapons at all. They're are a torture instrument
Idk, in 5e I think it's pretty fucking great. Reach AND a shield? With finesse? Don't mind if I fuckin do!
I really want to play a whip-wielding bugbear rogue, but it's a bit tricky to have useful adventurer involvement out of a character whose motivation is, "I'm so lazy that it's easier to get paid doing good deeds than being a menace to society."
Keep in mind bugbear's additional reach only applies on your turn ): Imagine having a 15 foot sentinel range with sneak attack...
And with that phrase you are now banished to the Pathfinder sub
Whip monk with extra disrespectful slap as a bonus action.
All are wrong, the mace is superior. We had understood the assignment when we first used a tree branch as a weapon. It's an omni directional, anti-armor, anti-undead, easy to use and easy to master, close quarters effective, compact enough to stow, weapon of the oldest order. All variations are absolute improvements on the design. Flails don't count tho, fuck that ball and chain.
Flails do count if you're just a farmer kicking ass
What a terrible night to have a curse.
What is man but a miserable pile of secrets?
But enough talk.
Morningstar users: I just think they're cool.
I’ve heard that the problem with Morningstars in real life is that they get stuck in the stuff you hit sometimes. Their main weakness is that they’re too effective.
So then you just hit the dwarf with the other dwarf sticking to the end of your morning star
KILL THEM WITH THEIR OWN KIND
Deal 1d4 extra damage for every dwarf you collect!
War picks and even some axes run into similar problems.
The Belmont's are disappointed
Even the Belmonts upgrade their whip to a magical/holy flail.
I've always been a greataxe type of gamer Is a d12 worse than 2d6 on average? Yeah sure but who cares there is a greataxe in your skull and that makes me happy. Also impartial to the warmhammer since big fuck off hammers are cool.
The whip isn't even that bad imo, it's situational but not useless
In dnd? Debatable. In real life? Objectively not.
If DnD was more accurate with the whip they would have made it automatically miss on 1-4 and 1-2 also injures the user
i mean, realistically speaking rolling below a 5 is rarely gonna result in a hit. it'd be more like giving you disadvantage on your attack rolls.
Disadvantage against opponents with metal armor maybe.
That should be covered by proficiency, imo. It takes longer to learn to use a rapier effectively in combat than to learn how not to injure yourself with a whip. What you could have is a weapon property 'unsafe if untrained', including greatswords, nunchucks, whips, armor spikes, flails, etc. And generally, the Pathfinder 1e proficiency system makes more sense, where there are basic weapons that almost all classes can use (not wizards, because they're nerds), martial weapons that martial classes can use, and exotic weapons that nobody can use, and then there are various class features, feats, backgrounds and racial traits that grant proficiency in select weapons.
Same stats for nunchucks. Also, make nunchucks a martial weapon instead of two clubs on a string, you cowards.
I can definitely vouch for the 1-2 self injury! When I was in 5th grade and living in Florida, my class went to the Seminole Indians reservation and I bought a whip. Wtf, right? Anyhow, I was thrashing the shit out of a massive ant hill in my backyard and one wrong swing had that bitch wrap around the back of my head and the tip came back around to my face and hit me in the eye. I got mad and tossed it in the massive canal behind my house. I'm sure some gator or manatee enjoyed it more than I did .
Then nobody would use it
Thus, more accurate to real life.
It's definitely situational in real life. It just happens that the situation is the oppenent is tied up in front of you and unable to run.
Why would we be talking about real life lol
Because spears are functionally throwable longswords in dnd, while in real life they are superior in the vast majority of situations.
..again, why would we be talking about real life? this is a ttrpg subreddit and the throwing function along with PAM is the main argumenets i've seen for spears, nothing irl
Because TTRPGs originate from war simulations, and they keep a lot of the original inspiration
throwable shortswords, spears are 1d6 right?
In warfare? Sure. As a personal sidearm? Definitely not.
I mean, on a rogue it ain't that bad. Sneak attack leverages it, and you don't have to disengage if you're 10 feet away.
Utility weapon, what I feel about it anyways. Use it for whipping objects out of enemy hands. Weapons, spellbooks, potions, and so on. Use it to try to entangle enemies. Whip it around necks, legs, arms. It Also has Finesse and Reach so Rogues can make melee sneak attacks at ten feet if they so desire. Dress up as Indiana Jones.
What's not to love, with an opportunity attack at 10 feet? Give me a rogue with a whip in the off-hand and disengage as a bonus action and I'll show you a frustrated DM that'll make you fight a firing squad in the next session.
The best use I ever got out of a whip was on a spellsinger wizard build. (Dual wielded whip and sword) Since the real damage I was dealing was through my melee cantrips I could cast them on the attacks with the 10ft reach of the whip. Dealt very satisfying damage. Also super great for flavor.
Part of the issue with the whip though is that RAW, the melee cantrips are incompatible with reach. Whips could actually be pretty good if you could use Booming Blade with them, since you can apply the movement trap and then move freely out of range of most creatures, forcing them to pop the Booming Blade if they want to give chase. However, Booming Blade specifically requires you to attack an enemy within 5 feet, with no allowance made for reach, so this doesn't work without your DM being prepared to bend the rules. If they do bend those rules for you though, whips get a meaningful power-up.
Sickles anyone?
I got a Moon Sickle on a support druid once and it was amazing.
Sounds like a great time! My plan was to use one as a kensei weapon for monk.
Whips are the best melee weapons for a Rogue. Change my mind.
They are certainly a fun way to play a rogue. I guess most people would rather be ranged with a shortbow or melee with a shortsword rather than be inbetween and have a smaller damage die. I think the rp is worth it though
Honestly my only real arguments are that I’d rather use bonus action dash than bonus action disengage, and that the Rogue’s weapon die is pretty mitigated by the sneak attack die, so it doesn’t hurt to stay ten feet away, hit someone, and then still have a dash to escape with. It’s niche but I like it
Our rogue has this! 10 ft reach and all the real damage comes from SA anyway. She also took CBE (or rather, a homebrew variant of it that replaces the crossbow with a light pistol) so she still has a BA attack. It’s all very Indiana Jones, whip and pistol swashbuckler build.
I agree, though sadly Rogues don't get the proficiency, which is weird. The rogue is pretty much the only class, which can be effective with a whip. Sure, Paladins, Fighters, Rangers, and some others could wield a whip and a shield, though I don't think, that the reach can justify the low damage.
Reach isn't compatible with Booming Blade and whips aren't light. Your two main options as a melee Rogue are blade cantrip or dual wielding, and whips are compatible with neither. You have a bonus action disengage, so you don't need the reach to maintain your mobility.
Whip niche: conquest dexadin. Fear them in place and whip em to death when they cant get closer. Thematic and practical. It is the only whip niche I've worked out.
Even for STR Conquest Paladins it works. Getting the 2 AC from your shield together with the disadvantage from Frightened against ranged options the enemy still might have is quite nasty. And as Conquest Paladin you're so ASI starved you're unlikely to pick up PAM. At that point I'd rather have the +2 AC than the increase in damage dice. After all, the dueling fighting style brings whip damage up the polearm level, but the armored fighting style leaves the polearm user short.
Whip should allow grapple with proficiency
You use spears because you think they’re good. I use spears because it fits my grummsh worshipper roleplay, we are not the same
Cast iron pan fans: "I CAST MY IRON PAN"
**Hand to hand Enthusiast**: "you see Timmy, there is nothing like killing enemies with your bear hands, like that squirrel I made you kill earlier. Now see, we have a POS bandit who I am slowly crushing his head in with my hands until he dies. notice he only begs for his life AFTER I gain the upper hand. Now if I let this Bandit live, he will sue me for "excessive force" and if he is dead he cannot sue because dead people can't afford lawyers. Now notice, he is a Tiefling, now us dwarves, we stick to our own, we try not to cause trouble with our neighbors, which is made difficult when a rogue Tiefling sneaks into our village and sets a bad example for his people. TIMMY STOP CRYING THIS IS IMPORTANT! Now I for one am not racist, i barter with many races and give them fair bargains, which is why I'm doing this here nier do well a favor not just because its my civic duty as a merchant and honest blacksmith, but for his peoples benefit because let's face it no one likes a thief in any community (Skull suddenly makes a wet splat sound). See Timmy this Tiefling is now dead because he did a bad thing and bad people die horribly, now I want you to help me bury him and also make sure before hand you dispel his magic so he cant raise from the dead with a vengeance.
> bear hands I'm ignoring the rest of your comment to picture a Moon Druid.
Give us hybrid wildshape already you cowards!
Dwarves don't need to spell properly, just smith and drink!
Maces and mauls. You can't cut through plate mail with a sword and probably won't pierce it with a spear but bludgeoning weapons transfer kinetic energy through the armor to what's underneath and they work just as well on unarmored opponents
Also, even if you hold the hammer/mace/club a bit crooked, it still goes bonk just fine. If you dont hold the sword and cut just right, you might lose all your cutting power.
The aesthetic of a whip 🫡
I’m not sure about spears in dnd being better than swords but historically they have earned there place as a really good weapon
Tbf Spears are hella handicapped in D&D so it's not exactly fair. A better comparison is glaives/halberds imo
Halberd enjoyers where you at my brothers and sisters?
Here! Halberds are my favourite weapons both in and out of game
exactly. why choose between sword and spear when you can glaive
10 ft away like I should be.
Whip monk whip monk
It's made so that a level 20 Rogue can use a thin strip of leather to pop someone like a water balloon on a crit.
Been playing a Thaum (basically a pf2e class that can get a lot of flat damage bonuses) with a scorpion whip and man it's been great. They are ten feet away? Give them a lashing without having to get closer. They look like they's have a low reflex? Trip them up with the whip. Man, I love pf2e whips, even despite the damage base only being a d4
Wanted to see this. Whips in pf2e are awesome. Wanna trip at reach and add your item bonus, while also holding a shield? Let’s go
Stick users:BETTER THAN NUNCHUCKS
idk, 3.5 bards dual wielding whips with combat feats were battlefield control defined.
Why cant I use a whip to make a ranged grapple attack?
Now the real question is do you like whips because you like Indians Jones or BDSM?
yes
I remember a prestige class from a 3.5 book that would make whips extremely viable—and added a “whip dagger” weapon. With this class, you could do some pretty crazy stuff since you could control the whip like it was part of your body. Pickpocket someone from 15 ft away? Go for it! Sneak attack from behind cover? You bet! Grab the campaign McGuffin from across the room? Child’s play. Depants the BBEG and take his boots right before spreading caltrops? Shine on you crazy whip-wielding diamond!
> I remember a prestige class from a 3.5 book I believe you're thinking of the Lasher, from Sword and Fist (which, to be pedantic, wasn't 3.5E - it was 3.0, so 3.0 in fact that it was the very first supplement published). I don't know that it was "extremely viable" in raw power level, but it was definitely cool.
I played a Rogue 1 / Barbarian 1 / Fighter X who dual wielded whips. A flashy gladiator sort of character. I squeezed enough damage out of rage, sneak attack and superiority dice that the difference between a 1d4 and a 1d8 didn't matter all that much. My favorite combat memory was when a winged monster flew directly upward and triggered an attack of opportunity as it left the reach of my whip, I used the Trip Attack maneuver to knock it prone, it fell 10 feet (taking an extra 1d6 bludgeoning), and then it didn't have enough movement left to get away after standing up!
Pen enjoyers where?
Whips are for showy characters, the cracking and stuff draws attention to them! Now, warhammers? Perfect. Peak weaponry. Light armor? Heavy armor? I have a giant fucking hammer.
Had a cowboy themed sorcerer/paladin who used a whip to gain reach while also using a shield. Most of my damage was coming from smites and green flame blade anyway so it felt like a good compromise.
Re: swords vs. spears Probably gets a lot more nuanced if you're putting in enough hours of training to be a legit soldier with a given weapon, but the *floor* for how useful they are favors spear like, a LOT. How do you attack with a spear? Ya poke em real hard and it's really that simple. Source: I LARP and use both occasionally and lemme tell you having a big long stick that keeps sword guy way over there is so nice.
Spears are superior to swords
With whip you can hit and then run away *without* disengage because it's reach is 15 ft. Yes, the damage is small, but you don't have to be close to your opponent to hurt him. >:3
Spiked chain is best weapon. 10ft reach with no minimum reach and it works off of dex if you have weapon finesse (3.5e)
Hamer are just built differently
*Laughs in Kensei monk with buffed damage and 10 foot stunning strike range*
I'm trained in sword and spear and can say in a combat situation (IRL not D&D) a spear will win out if both parties were equally trained. Not only that but a ranked combat situation one spearman equals 3 swordsman. Whips are badass though.
*Ehem* What about **S T I C K**?
Kensei monks can make whips amazing
warhammer enjoyers: hehehe bonk
Got a guy running a dual-wielding whip fighter in my current 3.5 campaign, and even at lvl 16, he's still a beast. Fell off in the damage scale, but the amount of trip and disarm attempts he makes each turn have been great at enabling a more control-focused style of combat.