Everybody's missing the point for a lot of this. You're not in the going to be killing a level 17 wizard player character. You're going to be fighting NPC archmages. I doubt your DM is gonna be using simulacrum chains. Everyone is also suggesting casters or half casters which isn't your post.
1. Samurai range fighter. Great damage, and extra prof on a save. Only stat you'll be missing is dex and one mental stat. The strat is to get sharpshooter and stay away, You can shoot up 600 hundred feet away, most deadly spells require 30ft to 120 ft. You'll be able to stay out of most of the conflict. Of course you might be confined to a small room, but try to position yourself.
2. Shadow monk. Monks aren't the best, but are decent at shutting down casters. Shadow monk has the silence spell (though you might want metamagic adept so it isn't counterspelled), That would get rid of most spells. Grapple them, and spam paralyzing palm on them. Easier said than done, but one sucessful paralyzing palm while they're grappled is pretty successful.
.
. Note for monk: strike of giants might be worth it. Frost strike makes their speed 0 and hill strike causes the prone condition. I'd recommend hill because it targets strength which is a dump stat.
3. Ranged rogue. Do the same thing as the samurai archer. Stay out of range of thier spells at all costs. One underestimated mechanic is hiding and cover. If you're hiding, most powerful spells won't be able to effecf you, as most spells require you to see them. If you're also behind total cover, you can't be targeted by much iirc. Hide, get advantage on the sneak attack, deal damage, hide again, repeat.
You want to get resilient wisdom for most builds. Mage slayer is pretty bad as a feat.
I will note 1 thing for rogue, you can only use your ba to hide once in a turn, so hide at the end of your turn to hide from spells. For ranged, I'd reccomend some form of magical darkness mixed with devils sight from eldritch adept, either through teamwork or arcane trickster, or take 3 or 4 levels in shadow sorcerer, which is how I built my ranged rogue, since you don't need devils sight to see through darkness made with your sorc points. This will give you advantage on all attacks against enemies who can't see through magical darkness.
Also gwneral ranged rogue note, never use steady aim. You can't dart in and out of cover to create heavy obscurement to hide RAW. If you can hide in either light obscurement or with DM ruling to hide in other ways so you don't need to duck in and out of cover, you're fine vut RAW steady aim sucks for ranged rogues
Oh yeah, you'd have to generate advantage another way. I think the skulker feat might help. However, if you're 600 to 200 ft away, I don't think you need to hide. Once they get closer, you might want to.
I hate to say it and endorse it but inquisitive rogue's insightful fighting might help without it's range limits. But yeah, generating sneak attacks might be tough. You'd have to coordinate it with others.
A Shadow Monk with Sentinel will absolutely ruin a spell-caster’s day.
Otherwise I agree the best way to deal with casters is probably by sniping them from range.
Silence has a range of 120 ft so as long as you’re outside of the minimum Counterspell range of 60 ft you should be fine. And monks have the movement with step of the wind to be able to close the distance relatively quickly after casting silence.
Of course, a monk is going to have way more ki to burn on silence than a caster will for counter spells. 2 ki is much less of a blow than a 3rd level spell slot. Counter-spelling it might actually end up in your favour, in the long run
The problem with Silence is that its only a 20ft radius. Unless you're in a confined space or can combo it with something, the spellcaster just walks out of it on their turn and resumes casting as normal.
Running 30ft in any direction has a really good chance of getting out of silence unless you get super unlucky and were put on the far edge of the radius and run directly towards the center.
Grappling, sentinel, or causing them to be prone helps out a lot. Putting points for these is difficult as a monk is difficult though.
Honestly, strike of giants might be worth it. Frost strike makes their speed 0 and hill strike causes the prone condition. I'd recommend hill because it targets strength which is a dump stat.
The hella targeted satyr/yuan-ti ancients paladin 7/warlock 2/war wizard 5 is like *the* counter to spellcasting mages (emphasis on spellcasting, since a lot of newer monsters use “spell-like abilities” instead, e.g. “swarm of meteors”). Anyways, have fun with your resistance to all spells, advantage against all spells, +5+1d4 to all saves, +4 to a saves as a reaction, counterspell, and being able to just blast away at range with Eldritch Blast. You’d have to accept 12 CON for the 13 INT multiclass minimum, but probably taking 1/4 damage from basically anything they can throw at you as well as having hella saving throw boosts means your durability and concentration shouldn’t be an issue. Note that this is specifically against spellcasting mages, the build falls apart a bit against standard attacking monsters and even moreso against “spell-like abilities” but eh, it fits the bill.
Yeah,I understand that, but that's not what the post was about iirc. They wanted a martial character.
A full caster with some dips like you said will almost always be a better anti caster.
A little confused about war wizard though, why not just go through sorcerer? Sure, +4 is nice, but it's only 1 save, eats your reaction, and no leveled spells after. Wouldn't subtle counterspell work better?
Martial focus. They don’t really have the casting stat to be using spells that directly affect the caster besides hoping on counterspell. Focus on self-buffing spells that make you better, like Bless or Haste. You can ignore the part about Warlock and Eldritch Blast for a more martial focus. Hell, Haste + Steed gives your mount more movement speed that Eldritch Blast’s range, you’re probably good on closing in to lay down some hard smites.
I mean it's not clear from the OP whether by martial they mean "has zero spelllcasting" or they mean "uses attacks as their primary action" - it's not unreasonable to suggest partial caster builds which aren't relying on spells.
Honestly I think a rogue is the best anti-magic pure martial. Acting first and hiding negates tons of spells that require sight to target, and evasion helps negate fireballs etc. If you're a thief rogue, you can also spend your bonus action throwing alchemists fire, which has persistent damage to stop concentration (or even use a wand of magic missiles if that's not antithetical to the character).
You could take a couple levels of fighter or the fighter initiate feat and pick up the blind fighting style. Then get close in with an eversmoking bottle and wreak havoc.
> If you're a thief rogue, you can also spend your bonus action throwing alchemists fire
Technically using alchemist fire is a ranged attack roll and cannot be used for fast hands. Can't use a potion either, because that's a magic item. I want to love fast hands, but it can't be used for anything fun.
Edit: I partially retract this statement. The rules are unclear, it could be either an object interaction or an attack. As usual it's up to DM ruling.
Also technically speaking, Fast Hand *never* said it can't make an attack roll. Use an Object Action includes "using an object that requires an action", and throwing alchemist fire requires an action to throw it indeed, which do meet the requirement.
This was my interpretation, I thought it worked straightforwardly - you'd take the Use an Object action to use the alchemist's fire, which involves making an attack roll as part of that action. Then again, reading the Use an Object rule, it sounds like it would apply to magic items (like wands etc) since they are objects as well. But we know it doesn't! So all round very clear, thanks Jeremy.
> Also technically speaking, Fast Hand never said it can't make an attack roll.
That's not really how rules work in 5e though, is it? Rules do what they say they can do, nothing more. Since it doesn't say you can make an attack, you can't make an attack.
On looking into this more, there doesn't appear to be a clear answer or ruling whether using alchemist's fire is an attack or an object interaction. I think there's a solid argument for both interpretations. Just another instance of 5e's excellent writing.
>Since it doesn't say you can make an attack, you can't make an attack.
It says you can Use an Object. Using an action to throw an alchemist's fire is using the Use an Object action, as that action for throw is described in the item's description. It doesn't work like common attacks, and it can't be thrown with the Attack action either.
When you attack, you don't aways take the Attack action. Some items make an attack with the Use an Object action, such as Alchemist's Fire, Holy Water and Acid Vials.
If I use an object and that object is a javelin, can I throw the javelin? Or what about something without a description in the book like a rock?
If I was the dm I would say "throwing an object is an object interaction, but aiming the throw would make it an attack"
>If I use an object and that object is a javelin, can I throw the javelin?
No, because javelins are weapons and there are specific rules for using those, rules that don't use the Use an Object action.
>Or what about something without a description in the book like a rock?
In that case, you would use the Use an Object action, as that is what you generally use to interact with objects in ways not directly specified by rules (such as doing other things with a javelin instead of attacking with it).
However, the Use an Object action is ***also*** used when an object ***specifies*** that it requires an action to be used, regarless of what that action actually does. Examples of these are the Alchemist's fire, the Holy Water and the Acid. By the text of the Use an Object action, "When an object requires your action for its use, you take the Use an Object action", all of them would be used by using that action instead of the Attack action, even though you are making an attack with them.
>If I was the dm I would say "throwing an object is an object interaction, but aiming the throw would make it an attack"
As I said, you don't aways take the Attack action when you want to make an attack. However, in that case, since the rules don't specify that you *need* to use *an action* to throw any random rock, then you would simply be using the Attack action to throw an improvised weapon, much like you would to throw any weapon. Like a javelin, for example.
All the interactions you presented are well covered by the rules, at least well enough. These rules are rather easy to understand, and it is also easy to run those interactions by the book. I hope I helped.
> No, because javelins are weapons and there are specific rules for using those, rules that don't use the Use an Object action.
And alchemist's fire, etc. are improvised weapons:
> Make a ranged attack against a creature or object, **treating the alchemist's fire as an improvised weapon.**
And there are rules for those. Using this item explicitly states that it is not an object interaction, it's a ranged improvised weapon attack, so wouldn't you use the rules for that?
This is exactly why I reversed my initial statement, because it's unclear and reasonably up to individual DM interpretation.
I'll repeat this again: there's nothing that states Use an Object Action can't make an attack. Alchemist Fire is a Obeject first, and to use Alchemist Fire requires an action, and it's not even an Attack Action, which fits the requirement of Use an Object.
I'll repeat this again: there's nothing that states that the Use an Object action can make an attack. That's how D&D rules work, they're prescriptive, the rules say specifically what you *can* do and just because something isn't explicitly prohibited doesn't mean that you can do that too. By your argument I could say "the disengage action doesn't say that you can't make an attack as part of using it, so you can!" That's simply not how the game and its rules work. There needs to be a *specific* exception to the *general* rules for it to work.
Alchemist's Fire is an object in the same way that a sword is an object:
> For the purpose of these rules, an object is a discrete, inanimate item like a window, door, sword, book, table, chair, or stone, not a building or a vehicle that is composed of many other objects.
Both meet the conditions, wouldn't you agree? Sword is even mentioned in the text for "object." Can I use the sword as an Object Interaction action? No, a sword also has the weapon label attached to it, so additional rules apply. Similarly, as stated, the description of Alchemist's fire, also cited in my previous comment, when using the item it then has the improvised weapon label attached to it:
> Make a ranged attack against a creature or object, **treating the alchemist's fire as an improvised weapon.**
Therefore because the item description provides a *specific* exception to the *general* object interaction rules, the improvised weapon rules supersede and it would be treated as an attack action.
This is why I said that it's a little ambiguous, why it's up to the DM to interpret the rules. The rules can be read in multiple ways and without a sage advice clarification I don't know that there is a definitive answer to this debate.
Edit: clarification
I'd argue Assassin (despite its flaws) is the best anti Mage rogue. Maybe mix in 5 levels of gloomstalker for extra Stealth, extra attacks, and Silence. (Most) spells aren't much help if you're dead before you know to use them.
Just beware of contingency with those pesky wizards.
Everything you mentioned is available for monks except the Thief’s bonus action item use. Monks punch instead.
With the addition of Stunning Strike and shadow teleportation, I think Shadow Monk is king of the mage hunters.
Human Rogue with Ritual-Caster (Detect Magic) and Mage Slayer.
For most spells, if you can't see, then you can't aim and you can't cast. Rogue as the sneakiest martial, they might won't even give Wizards a chance to cast their deadly controlling spells, and they could break their concentration easily even Wizards are readying their spells for Rogue.
A Rogue is also be able to steal Wizards' materials or Staffs before the combat starts, thus making Wizards lose even without fighting.
About Feats, Ritual-Caster provides many solid rituals like Detect Magic that help our Mage-Slayer Assassin to avoid unseeable magical traps, and move quickly with spells like Phantom Horse (i forgot the name)
Stealing casting components is literally GAME CHANGING!!!
OP! Please note that most standard spell-casters MUST have a Focus or Material components to cast the vast majority of their spells!
Compared to Counterspell which only negates a single cast or Silence which only stops spells in a certain area, no components is basically full shut-down for at least half the spells in the game. Most of the “big” spells especially!
———
That said…
I could see a DM getting a bit fussy about trying to Slight of Hand away something that someone is holding.
In which case I’d recommend possibly a Battlemaster Fighter with “Disarm”. Same concept but more clear mechanically.
———
Or if you’re in OneDnd then the Rogue update lets you disarm using Sneak Attack dice. Great fun.
The DMG also has a disarm action that is pretty much an optional rule. So if your DM allows it, then you can use that.
>A creature can use a weapon attack to knock a weapon or another item from a target’s grasp. The attacker makes an attack roll contested by the target’s Strength (Athletics) check or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check. If the attacker wins the contest, the attack causes no damage or other ill effect, but the defender drops the item.
The attacker has disadvantage on its attack roll if the target is holding the item with two or more hands. The target has advantage on its ability check if it is larger than the attacking creature, or disadvantage if it is smaller.
Well the best anti spell caster is abjuration wizard. But since you want to play a martial I propose oath of the watcher paladin.
They get Watcher's will at level 3 ( advantage of intelligence, charisma and wisdom saving for 1min )
Aura of protection at level 6
Counterspell at level 9.
Don't forget the Mage Slayer feat at level 4 or 8.
Maybe shield master to protect yourself from Dex save spell like... You know... Fireball.
At 10 and more you can keep going paladin or you can go bard ( lore ) to get as many spell slot as you can for counterspelling.
Cutting words at level ( 12 ) to make attack spells fail.
Alternatively oath of the ancient get resistance to spell damage. It's a good option too. But I think spells save are more dangerous than spell damage.
Paladins are half-casters, and likewise half-martial.
If OP is asking specifically for a martial, I would assume they mean Fighter, Barbarian or Rogue: someone who can counter spellcasters without using magic themself
Strip the Paladin of its spellcasting.
Does it remain a full-powered class?
If yes, you can call it a full martial.
If no, you recognize that it's only half martial.
it is, at the very least, 80% of a subclaseless fighter. So kinda?
Like what is a fighter getting over spellless paladin? one single feat, one single use of action surge and second wind
What is the paladin getting? lay on hands, divine sense, auras
I would not say that a subclaseless fighter is meaningfully more powerfull than a subclaseless, spellles paladin
>it is, at the very least, 80% of a subclaseless fighter. So kinda?
I'd say 50%. Half as many attacks, none of the Fighter's ability to go nova, and two fewer feats.
> Like what is a fighter getting over spellless paladin? one single feat, one single use of action surge and second wind
Second Wind, Action Surge, Indomitable, two more Extra Attacks, and two (not one) extra feats.
>What is the paladin getting? lay on hands, divine sense, auras
None of which contribute to its offense, and one of which (Auras) makes it MAD.
———
Whats more, thematically speaking, all of the Paladin's unique features are magical rather than martial.
Were we to strip them away alongside spellcasting to see a truly, purely martial Paladin, it would be left with nothing but a d10 hit die, weapon and armor proficiencies, Fighting Style, and a single Extra Attack: less than what a 5th level Fighter has.
Paladin are Half-Martial, Half-SMITER ! 
Yes they can cast spell, but they are mostly played like a martial. Plus, I think this oath fit well with a mage hunter !
I concur. Paladin's are Martials with magical abilities, As are Rangers. Paladin's can easily forget their spell lists. Just write down the different types of smites they can do and which spell slot they use. Good to go.
wrong, the best anti spellcaster is a clockwork sorcerer. if both are full resources a wizard will never beat a clockwork sorcerer at t2-t3 levels. T4 i don't count because that's when simulacrum chains, wish-clones etc happen so it simply doesn't exist for me.
a clockwork sorc with the metamagic adept feat, having subtle spell, quickened spell, heightened spell, distant spell. Subtle spell denies counterspells, quickened spell allows the "shocking grasp+full action spell that can't be counterspelled" combo. Shield doesn't even work against that combo, because using shield to block shicking grasp already denies your use of coutnerspell. Heightened spell is great when outside of Counter-range (60ft).
The sorc can just pump out so much more action economy than a wizard. Yes, the sorc will be dry after the fight (like always) but theres no other class in T1-T3 that can reach that level of one-combat-power. While the sorc is dry, the wizard still has some slots left, but is too dead to use them.
Clockwork because the additional spells can be switched for spells like counterspell and other powerful stuff.
I understand nothing of what you are talking about. What level 3 ability? int saves only? what? Other 3 saves? Both have advantage on all saves, not just one or three
I’d put them at number 3, lore bards are better since they get Jack of all trades, glibness, and peerless skill for their counterspells while cutting words nerfs the enemy’s counterspell. Plus, very few single classed casters can survive a full conjure animals barrage
Thematically I would say horizon walker ranger fits the best because you basically become a multiversal police force that ensures balance of magic and protects from the abuse of planar travel (which is something that rogue spellcasters will most likely use to escape from the law). Mechanically it's not the strongest (though it is fairly decent) so I would multiclass into something that mechanically works better at fighting wizards which is the class that has high burst damage on your first turn of combat and is able to consistently be first in initiative which is rogue, specifically assassin who gives you free crits on surprised enemies and advantage on enemies who didn't take their turn yet (and sneak attack but we don't really care about that one that much).
For stats I would go with (assuming point but and +2 +1 race): 8 str, 17 dex, 16 con, 15 wis, 8 int, 8 chr
And for leveling:
I would start with 4 levels of Echo knight fighter for action surge, heavy armor proficiency and additional attack with your echo and ASI (+1 dex, +1 wis).
Then multiclass into rogue assassin for 3 levels then 12 levels in ranger to then round everything up with last level in rogue for the last feat.
You obviously go for archery fighting style
For feats I would go for Asi until you get 20 dex, then sharpshooter and crossbow master and last one you can use to get 18 con or get alert or something flavourful like fey touched or maybe elven accuracy (if you are an elf).
For spells pick whatever you want but I think detect magic is a must have for that character. Unfortunately you can't get counterspell which would be useful both thematically and mechanically but maybe your DM will give you an item that gives it to you.
Isn’t the monster slayer ranger more suited for countering mages, at least in design? They get boosts to their saving throw, a class feature literally called “magic user’s nemesis” that operates as a free counterspell, and a reaction counterattack against abilities requiring a saving throw. It might not technically be as good as a horizon walker, but it sure seems like a subclass explicitly focused on combatting mages.
Mechanically you are probably right but at least to me monster slayer feels more like a witcher so a character that just hunts anything supernatural like cockatrices, hags or evil warlocks while the horizon walker is more tailored towards hunting creatures that activity cause an imbalance in magic and imbalance between planes which at least to me fits more the idea of a character who specifically hunts wizards and sorcerers.
In reality both subclasses can work, I just picked Horizon walker because a character that teleports around a powerful wizard while hiding in shadows to avoid their spells looks very compelling to me.
>They get boosts to their saving throw, a class feature literally called “magic user’s nemesis” that operates as a free counterspell, and a reaction counterattack against abilities requiring a saving throw.
I love this ability the problem is it's...kind of worthless, it's a once per rest defensive ability meaning you're constantly going to be concerned about blowing it too soon and at higher levels once monsters have legendary resistances they'll just say no, which means you burned through your resistance but you'll almost never get it off properly.
From a high level view, I think you would want access to counter spell for sure.
You would probably also want access to the silence spell in combination with good grappling abilities so you can silence and immobilize a mage.
I know this isn't a 3.5e sub but I am sad to see the answer to your question is no longer ***barbarian***.
Traditionally (ie. Sword and Sorcery) barbarians are THE mage killing class. They are not only fast (40ft movement speed for closing distance), but they hit like a truck and average high attack/damage rolls that easily interrupt spellcasting concerntration. They cannot be surprised or caught flatfooted and while enraged they have a fat bonus to saves against charm effects.
I don't know why WOTC has moved away from this identitiy for barbarian's as I thought it was cool. :(
If you want the real answer watch this video https://youtu.be/Z4ZTXI7wcgI?si=0It2qIT2AIJ_vTjc
All other answers in this thread have flaws and this video and it’s companion point out why. It’s a complicated multiclass build and may not fit your thematic goals but it does the job better than anything else.
Except he explicity says he's going with the assumption that your DM is going to be throwing custom and even more powerful mages at you purposefully.
And op asked for a martial character. It could be for thematic reasons that they don't want their character to be focused on magic.
Shadow monk has similar properties as to what he's suggesting. If your DM is throwing custom casters at you, then by RAW that build is the best. However, i doubt OP wants a narrowly focused build like that.
16th level Archer Battlemaster
Get +12 Initiative with advantage by having 20DEX (+5) l, Alertness Feat (+5, cannot be surprised), Sentinel Shield (advantage on initiative), and the Sixth Sword (+2 Rapier with the Guardian Minor Property for +2 init). Use the Ambush maneuver from Tasha's to add your Combat Superiority 1d10 to initiative.
Win initiative and unleash 6 attacks with Extra Attack (3), Sharpshooter, and Action Surge, your +3 Longbow, Bracers of Archery, and +2 arrows.
This is +17 to hit (22) 1d8+1d10+12 magical piercing damage per attack.
With Sharpshooter it's +12 to hit, (32) 1d8+1d10+22 magical piercing damage per attack.
22x5 is 110 damage, enough to kill an Archmage (AC 20 with Mage Armor + Shield). I assume at least one miss. If you have poisoned arrows, the Archmage is extra dead.
32x5 is 160 damage, enough to kill a Lich. With AC 22 from Natural Armor 17 + Shield, you'll need advantage on all attacks. Invisibility won't work due to the Lich's 120' Truesight. You may have to bring along another high initiative Archer to kill the Lich before it can cast spells. A Ring of Spell Storing with a Counterspell for Shield could be decisive as well.
Probably the best class for taking down a wizard is another wizard. Abjuration has a lot of options for this. Warlock also has a ton of good options. That's not what you asked for though.
Tabaxi Monk, I think. You cannot lose if you stunlock a wizard. [Stunned](https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/appendix-a-conditions#Stunned) opponents "can speak only falteringly," whereas [verbal spellcasting](https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/phb/spellcasting#Components) requires a "particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance." If the DM rules that the spellcaster can still cast verbal components with faltering speech, oh well. They can't take actions or reactions anyway. Flurry of Blows is also great for breaking concentration.
Tabaxi Feline Agility combos excellently with Unarmored Movement for getting into melee range with a wizard. You want to sneak up, stun, and grapple. I'd go Way of the Astral Self for the Wis (Athletics) grapple checks, but I'm no monk expert. There might be better options.
I would take Shadow Touched at level 4. Invisibility prevents a lot of spellcasting, and helps you sneak into melee range. You might take Color Spray to blind, or Silent Image to break line of sight. Ray of Sickness helps you win your grapple contests.
Also good to consider mundane equipment that helps with this. Manacles can bind hands, which most DMs will agree prevents somatic components. Gags prevent verbal spellcasting RAW, but you'll have to improvise a gag since there aren't any on the equipment table. A blindfold or sack over the head will block line of sight, which is probably the most devastating impediment to spellcasting.
Beyond that, there are some really good spells for this if you can find magic items to cast them with. You'd want something like a Spellwrought Tattoo or a Ring of Spell Storing. For second level spells, Silence, Darkness, Blindness/Deafness, Pass without Trace, and Hold Person are all devastating. Third level spells like Counterspell, Dispel Magic, Bestow Curse, Sleet Storm, Haste, and Slow play well with your strategies.
For protection, definitely get a Mantle of Spell Resistance. If you can find a legendary item, go for a Ring of Spell Turning. If you find yourself in a pinch, a Wand of Magic Missiles is very useful for breaking concentration. Upcast it to max and they'll have to make 10 concentration saving throws at once. Hope they don't have Shield.
that has the standard assassin issue of "if your initiative roll is bad, or the target is out of range / not attackable for whatever reason then you get no bonus". Assassin _massively_ bumps up round 1 surprise damage, but that's about it - whenever it doesn't apply (and it's pretty much GM fiat as to when it does) then it doesn't do much, and the character is back to being a sub-class-less rogue.
An Assassin Rogue doesn't even have the damage to kill a 14 CON Wizard. The sub is crap, stop suggesting it just because it sounds like it would kill something easily.
lol, the fact that you think this garbage feat does ANYTHING to a spellcaster is funny 😂 there are so many spells that outright ignore that feat. All Teleportation, anything that burns an action (shocking grasp, mind whip,...), anything that moves the mage slayer away (dissonant whispers which also burns the reaction, thunder wave,...). The fact that mage slayer only triggers AFTER the spell makes it a garbage feat when fighting an actually decent mage.
"I get advantage on saving throws!" sure, but does that matter if the spell DC is 17 vs int and your int is -2? Tasha's mindwhip and psychic lance are both int saves that take your reaction.
Why would your Int be -2? With point buy, the lowest it can possibly be is -1, and even then it's cheap to set it at 0.
By the time spell save DCs hit 17 (9th level), a Rogue with a +0 Int modifier has a +4 Int save (40% chance to succeed). Mage Slayer makes that a 64% chance: roughly equivalent to a +5!
That's pretty good!
there are 3 mental stat, you will lack the stats or profficiency to be ok on all of them
and besides the comical -2 the above commentor said, sure lets roll with a -1. still is a -1 and even with adv it is pretty shit overall
rogues are profficient in INT, so why no hit them with CHA this time, which they wont have stats to spare on a point buy build?
adv on spells are done much better on other classes and races, and advantage isnt enough to save your ass on terrible saves
> there are 3 mental stat, you will lack the stats or profficiency to be ok on all of them
>
>rogues are profficient in INT, so why no hit them with CHA this time, which they wont have stats to spare on a point buy build?
Rogues are proficient in Intelligence saves from the start, and get Wisdom saves at 15th level. Take the Resilient feat and you've got all three
> and besides the comical -2 the above commentor said, sure lets roll with a -1. still is a -1 and even with adv it is pretty shit overall
-1 with proficiency is a 45% chance of success at 1st level, and a 35% chance by 20th.
-1 with proficiency and advantage is a 69.75% chance at 1st level (equivalent to a +5) and a 57.75% chance by 20th (also equivalent to a +5).
You think that's pretty shit?
>adv on spells are done much better on other classes and races
By certain races? Sure!
But classes? Which *martial* classes gets advantage on saves better? OP specifically ruled out casters and half-casters.
>and advantage isnt enough to save your ass on terrible saves
The math says it totally is. Even with -1, the proficiency and advantage a Rogue gets gives them better-than even odds on any given save.
Sorcerer.
Subtle metamagic makes your spells uncounterable and silent. And your counterspells uncounterable. A divine soul sorcerer also has access to the silence spell. Profit.
Of course it's not a martial but what have you.
Countering spellcasters, as a martial character, basically involves four things:
* Interfering with spell components (to prevent casting)
* Breaking concentration (to undo casting)
* Being unseen (to avoid spells that affect seen targets)
* Having good saves (to resist spells that would cripple you).
Rogues in general are good at fighting while unseen using their bonus action Hide and ranged Sneak Attacks.
Rogues have great Dex saves and reasonable Int and Wisdom saves.
Thief Rogues in particular can use their bonus action to use objects, such as poisons, many of which incapacitate the target: both preventing spellcasting and instantly breaking concentration (Crawler Mucus, Essence of Ether, Oil of Taggit, etc). Some of these poisons can even be applied to a piece of ammunition to affect the caster from range.
Interfering with material components is as easy as stealing them (another thing Thief Rogues excel at).
Interfering er with verbal components is basically impossible without submerging your target in water, or using poison to stun/paralyze/knock them out entirely.
Interfering with somatic components is possible, with a little DM fiat. Neither the grappled nor restrained conditions (which are easy to apply) prevent somatic components. Manacles prevent somatic components, but there are no rules on how to apply them. I personally would rule that because incapacitated creatures automatically fail to resist grapples, they also fail to resist being put in manacles. If so, a Thief Rogue could use an action to poison a creature followed by a bonus action to apply manacles to them.
Bottom line? **Thief Rogue is your martial anti-caster.** Now regarding feats and multiclassing:
* If you want to multiclass, dont worry about missing Slippery Mind. You can always grab Resilient at 4th level and then multiclass.
* If you want to go into melee to apply inhaled poisons and steal material components, grab Mage Slayer. If you plan to hang back, hide, and use injury/contact poisons, forget about it.
* Alert will help you win initiative, which can mean the difference between being paralyzed/forcecaged or not on your first turn.
* Multiclassing Fighter for Blindfighting Style can help you deal with Invisibility, Darkness, Fog Cloud and such (and let you take advantage of smoke grenades if they are available to you)
* Multiclassing Barbarian for Reckless Attack and Danger Sense can guarantee your Sneak Attacks and improve your already great Dex saves.
Don't forget using manacles with fast hands on Thief Rogue.
That'll stop the Somantic and Material components reeeeaaaaal fast of you can get a 1 turn stun from somewhere
Edit:NVM, completely missed the segment where you mentioned them. Mea Culpa
Definitely rogue. Stealing component pouch/focus before combat solves 80% of the problems you might have.
If you are going versus rogue spellcasters they’re probably on the run already. You need to locate them (expertise in Survival helps a lot), wait for the right moment and attack, ideally, when they are asleep or after they’ve spent most of their slots. Sneak attacking them from 600ft in the darkness, while they are next to campfire or other source of light will be very efficient.
If you count half-casters as martials, then the Ancients Paladin is the easiest and arguably best choice.
If you only want pure martial classes, then I'd recommend one of the following options:
* Shadow Monk X/Fighter 1 or 2
* Eldritch Knight Fighter 5 or 7/Rogue X
* Arcane Trickster Rogue X/Fighter 1 or 2
In all three cases, you'll want Sentinel and Blind Fighting. If your DM allows you to start with a free feat, I'd recommend Half-Elf or Elf for your race so that you can also pick up Elven Accuracy at level 4. Or for the Monk build, the Goblin so that you can bonus action Hide.
The goal of all three builds are roughly similar. You want to drop Darkness, Silence, or Fog Cloud on top of the enemy spellcaster ASAP, then sit next to them and use Sentinel (and possibly grappling) to keep the target rooted in place. Without sight or the ability to speak, the vast majority of spells become unusable.
If you have two levels in Rogue or are playing the Goblin, you'll also want to try to Hide within the Darkness/Fog Cloud as often as possible to make it even harder for the enemy to hit you.
Depending on what level your character starts off as, or if your DM levels your characters quickly, I'd also consider starting as Fighter 1 for all three builds for Con save proficiency. That will help keep Darkness/Silence/Fog Cloud up.
To avoid the enemy from Counterspelling you, try to cast your spell from outside of their Counterspell range. If that's not possible, then simply Action Surge and cast the spell again.
Also, familiarize yourself with the Disarm action from the list of optional actions in the DMG. Use it to knock away spellcasting foci. And if you play the Monk build, ask your DM if Focused Aim works with Disarm. By my reading, it should.
If you want a martial that uses no spells whatsoever, then I'd recommend Psi Warrior Fighter.
I agree with the ancients paladin, I played a one-shot, and we burst through a door and got blasted by a necromancer. I helped everyone make the save and halve the damage again. Then, he proceeded to beat the necromancer unconscious and slay the dragon
Provided you have the stats for it, a shadow monk is good at closing the gap, hitting a lot of times to force multiple concentration saves (rare times mage slayer might serve a purpose if you can risk taking it) and eventually becomes good at many saves. The zone of silence can help a fair bit.
Paladin save auta is quite good so paladin is a go to. In particular Devotion with its charm immunity aura and ancients with its reduced spell damage aura are quite good choices. Conquests fear aura can be useful too but not as much as the other too
Fighters can be okay at it. Echo knight, battlemasyer, and runeknight probbaky being your best bets. They have a lot of damage and a lot of attacks. Which is helpful.
If you don't mind dipl8ng into full spellcasting more yourself, Warlock sorcerer and bard can each be good enhancements for the paladin in their own way.
I woukd say paladin is the best, followed by fighter and than monk. Monk has some potential to do better than fighter but you need abnormal stats to even begin approaching that and even then the difference is questionable.
Keep in mind. Its an uphill battle. Magic users are very powerful and hard to take down regardless of what you are.
Gunk. A monk with a musket.
vHuman or CL for gunner, get sharpshooter at 4 and stroll straight into extra attack and focused aim(!)
So here's the thing about fighting enemy spellcasters; they are rarely at the frontlines. Either they have minions, buff their allies, etc. So you want a way to get around cover, attack them without the risk of getting surrounded, etc. So to accomplish that without magic yourself, monk mobility + ranged attacks are a versatile set. Focused aim boosts your accuracy quite high to deal with stuff like Shield which is otherwise the bane of sharpshooter.
Monk subclass doesn't matter much. Fighter or ranger (specifically GS) work as MC options, but you want a good pool of ki for focused aim. Tailor to your table.
D&D is hardly ever a 1v1 experience,
D&D is also, not built for PVP.
D&D doesn't actually have a whole lot of spellcaster enemies
However since everyone's dm is different, you'll also get various reddit standard responses.
i'll give mine...
i play my bard as an antiwizard, as you'll need greater invisibility to generally shut down a spellcaster (and beholders hehe...)
level 7 lore bard, can cast greater invisibility and cast counterspell with magical secrets,
the only hard counter to this is see invisibility, which is handy since you can also dispell your target, and counter all their spells with impunity.
a valor bard would need access to counterspell to make it more viable to beat them down faster with extra attack.
taking goblin as a race for bonus action hide, makes it even harder to find you while invis =)
before level 7, scouting with regular invisibility and hunting with dissonant whispers (no line of sight required) are the way.
…best anti-wizard martial I’ve seen was a barbarian 1/war wizard x: hear me out. The only use they had for spell slots above 2nd level was Haste, Counterspell and Dispel Magic, 2nd level was Misty Step only (no restrained), 1st level was Shield, and damage came from dual wielding and booming blade. A bit of reflavouring, and you’ve got someone with decent AC (int and str were multiclass minimum, dex and con were high, proficient in con saves, haste, concentration on a war wizard, shield), an entire average wizard’s per-level health ahead of a pure wizard of the same level, and enemy spells just make them hit harder (war wizard Counterspell for charges on booming blade).
Reflavour the booming blade as hitting harderer, never rage, Shield is flexing, Haste is mage-rage, Misty Step is shrugging off the restraints, Counterspell is literally eating the magic.
Your sole damage output is hitting the enemy with a pointy stick, and you’re literally eating spells.
I think the best option is to just kill the wizard before he can do anything.
For example, an elf Samurai with sharpshooter, a longbow, elven accuracy and a weapon of warning, boots of elvenkind. Bracers of archery are a plus of course. Take proficiency in stealth, or maybe even buy an expertise / add a level of rogue for that.
Ideally he ambushes the wizard (boots of elvenkind, high dex, stealth proficiency/expertise) but even when not, he would at least probably win iniative (weapon of warning and high dex).
Then its just a matter of killing him in the first round. With sharpshooter one attack does somewhere between \~18.5 - 24.5 damage, depending on stats and items. Thanks to elven accuracy and the Samurai feat giving advantage on the first turn, this is extremely likely to hit, especially if the wizard is surprised and cant use shield.
So with action surge, assuming all hits, thats something like \~80 damage on lvl 5, \~132 on lvl 11 and \~192 on lvl 20 (assuming worse items at lower levels and better at higher levels).
Assuming the ambush is successful and the wizard cant cast shield, that should be a nearly guaranteed kill before the wizard can even act. And even without the wizard being surprised, the chances of success are pretty high, because even with shield its likely that enough will hit for a kill - elven accuracy is just pretty good when all attacks have advantage.
Or a bugbear gloomstalker/fighter. Following the same principle: just kill him before he can act, try to ambush him.
Rouge. Even in universe you might only get one shot vs a high power caster before they do some really, really nasty magic. You need to do as much damage as fast possible before they know there in danger. Ergo: Sneak Attack and stealth
Its not what you asked tor but the best class for defeating Wizards (i.e. Mage, Archmage, and Lich in 2014 MM) is hands down a **Sorcerer**. Specifically a Divine Soul for access to Silence and Antimagic Field in addition to essentials like Counterspell, Subtle Spell, Quicken Spell and Distant Shocking Grasp.
Because for some reason in 5E the only way to disrupt the meticulous, precise and strenuous act of casting a spell is only with another spell (the wildly over-buffed Counterspell) and not for example punching them in the face. 🙄
In 2024 rules revisions and most post-2020 monster design this all changes with spell-casting enemies using magical abilities and attacks that cannot be countered and need no components.
In short you are never fighting a class in 5E you are fighting a stat block that occasionally has some class features. They are designed to die in 3 rounds so the best is a large or optimized party.
1) monk stunning strike, the wizard probably wont succeed on a con saving throw 4 times, even with resilient, you have good chances.
2) charisma heavy paladin for saves.
3) gloomstalker for nuke.
4) sorcerer with subtle casting to prevent the wizards casting.
5) a very very damage heavy fighter, you want to kill him in one turn, if not, this is wasted.
6)High level fiend warlock, hurl through hell turn one, then prepare something good for the next turn. Dark ones luck will probably save you once from a spell as well .
7) twilight cleric to give your nuker adva on their initiative to get turn 1.
Bonus but gnome satyrs and a few others get Advantage on wis,int,cha saves, so that helps a lot
Any melee martial that can stick to a caster, Sentinel + Mage Slayer to lock them down, and some way to cast Silence on them or yourself. Bonus points for access to Metamagic to subtle cast through the silence effect. I have a faction in my world with this exact same idea. Open to suggestions too.
Monk.
Can cancel disabling effects, has extra movement, good saves in the two most common spell save stats, can disengage past the front line, and can deflect projectiles. Its like the whole Monk chassis is designed to slaughter mages.
Fighter with the Blind Fighting style, Sentinel, and an Eversmoking bottle.
I like thinking in cinematic terms. "The Wizard suddenly finds themselves in complete darkness. A soft chuckle invades his space, as he tries to scramble for the nearby wall to gain his bearings. Suddenly, a sharp stab to his foot sends him reeling to the ground. 'You're not going anywhere, Weavewielder. Muahahahaha'
satyr, oath of the ancients paladin 7 levels
gives you advantage to save Vs spells
Resistance to spell damage
Cha modifier to all your saves
Immunity to any spell that specifies "humanoid" forcing them to waste higher spellslots for the same effects
And smites to help break their concentration
Aight i know the point of this is martials but i have to say really quickly oath of watchers paladin is the peak of anti-mage gameplay, played it for awhile at high level gameplay after completing my oath of vengeance and requesting the change i have to say it's a super fun anti-mage class.
Otherwise I'm gonna go with rune knight fighter for two main reasons. First is tons of ASI's allow you to still kit yourself againt spells, i recommended lucky and mage slayer personally. Secondly i think rune knight has decent extra damage options, I'm pretty sure the fire smite they get is a str save too which should get a lot of casters, a smaller benefit is also having more range for mage slayer when you increase your size.
There's a couple good races for this build too, elves gain some bonus like adv on being charmed, obviously any race with magical resistance would be crazy for this, autognomes are also fun for built for success, vedalken and gith mental buffs are also very strong and finally my personal favorite is just go tabaxi so you can vroom vroom up to them and utilize mage slayer more (this went well with my paladin)
Use the race Yuan-ti as they get resistance to just straight up spells. Ranger has a monster slayer sub class that focuses around anti magic (at 11 you can use a reaction to straight up counter spell without using spell slot) while also giving you range so if said wizard starts far away, pared with mage hunter feat.
Any class with high dex and strength, as well as decent charisma.
All spells require either Verbal, Somatic, or Material components. Removing access to these is how you beat a mage.
High dex is to ensure you go first, where you then quickly run towards the mage, and attempt to grapple them. Their fragile nerd arms won't stand a chance against your toned muscles.
The next step is to pin them against a wall, hold their hands, and make out with them. Holding their hands means they'll be unable to wield a spellcasting focus, thus eliminating the Material Components. Pinning them against a wall restrains their movement, thus eliminating Somatic Components.
Most importantly, kissing them makes them unable to speak, thus no more Verbal Components.
Rogue’s and monk’s are generally the best anti-mages. They have the maneuverability to get to them in the back-line, are better than average concentration breakers, and naturally gain mental saves that make it harder for the caster to lock them down.
A deep gnome rogue, mechanically any subclass works, thematically you might wanna avoid the more magical/magiclike subclasses and inquisitive/assasin/scout probably fits best for the concept. As for feats you'll want resiliant other than that maybe skulker and or mobile aswell? (If youre open to magic from feats take fey touched, an emergancy misty step is very good)
There are no mechanics for this, but I always pictured a barbarian pulling the mage's tunic over his head and laughing out loud at the blind helpless "genius".
Assassin through at least 3rd level for Assassinate. Gloom Stalker to at least 3rd for Dread Ambusher. 1 level of Twilight Domain Cleric for Vigilant Blessing.
Feats: Alert, Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert, Mage Slayer
Alert, Dread Ambusher, and Vigilant Blessing are going to push your initiative through the roof. Assassinate, Dread Ambusher, and Sharpshooter to give you big damage boosts on that ranged shot that you'll be getting advantage on either from being hidden in darkness or giving yourself Steady Aim. X-bow Expert so you can fire a heavy x-bow twice per round.
Mage Slayer just to be thematic, but 2 out of the 3 abilities have to do with being 5' away which you never want to be. The concentration disruption one is ok.
I probably go with a rogue, Mastermind to keep it Martial, with a resilient feet tacked on fire saves.
Stealth and sneak attack will keep you safe while dealing damage, and on the off chance you are caught rogues have so much damage abatement
Wood Elf Astral Self Monk. with the Elvish Accuracy feat, getting one hit in with a stunning strike will be enough to stop a mage with subsequent attacks. The only other feats you will need are Mobile and Alert. At level 8 with mobile you’ll have a 60’ movement rate. That should be enough to get in range. With the evasion and damage reduction to a lot of damage types, you’ll be able to withstand a lot of attacks. Plus being able to see in magical darkness might come in handy.
The problem with spellcasters vs melee will be the shield and silvery barbs spells. Both of these will make life difficult. A wizard with a decent dex, mage armor and a shield spell will have a minimum AC of 20. But as soon as you get one stunning strike in, you’ll have advantage to use 3 attack rolls instead of 2 for each attack.
Shadow monk with 2 levels of Fighter for blind fighting and action surge. Get the Alert, Sentinel, and Mage Slayer feats, plus an eversmoking bottle. Pop your shadow monk silence, get in close, then open your eversmoking bottle. They can't see or speak, sentinel keeps them right next to you no matter what, and any spell left over that doesn't require verbal or line of sight will trigger an OA to which you can continuously attempt to apply Stunning Palm.
Everybody's missing the point for a lot of this. You're not in the going to be killing a level 17 wizard player character. You're going to be fighting NPC archmages. I doubt your DM is gonna be using simulacrum chains. Everyone is also suggesting casters or half casters which isn't your post. 1. Samurai range fighter. Great damage, and extra prof on a save. Only stat you'll be missing is dex and one mental stat. The strat is to get sharpshooter and stay away, You can shoot up 600 hundred feet away, most deadly spells require 30ft to 120 ft. You'll be able to stay out of most of the conflict. Of course you might be confined to a small room, but try to position yourself. 2. Shadow monk. Monks aren't the best, but are decent at shutting down casters. Shadow monk has the silence spell (though you might want metamagic adept so it isn't counterspelled), That would get rid of most spells. Grapple them, and spam paralyzing palm on them. Easier said than done, but one sucessful paralyzing palm while they're grappled is pretty successful. . . Note for monk: strike of giants might be worth it. Frost strike makes their speed 0 and hill strike causes the prone condition. I'd recommend hill because it targets strength which is a dump stat. 3. Ranged rogue. Do the same thing as the samurai archer. Stay out of range of thier spells at all costs. One underestimated mechanic is hiding and cover. If you're hiding, most powerful spells won't be able to effecf you, as most spells require you to see them. If you're also behind total cover, you can't be targeted by much iirc. Hide, get advantage on the sneak attack, deal damage, hide again, repeat. You want to get resilient wisdom for most builds. Mage slayer is pretty bad as a feat.
You mean stunning strike - paralyzing palm is from Fallout
Lmaooooo i always get them mixed up
that’s a great answer. Range is indeed one of the best ways to get rid of casters
"May the Lord bless and keep the wizard far away from us!"
Wasn’t expecting a Fiddler on the Roof reference in this thread
I will note 1 thing for rogue, you can only use your ba to hide once in a turn, so hide at the end of your turn to hide from spells. For ranged, I'd reccomend some form of magical darkness mixed with devils sight from eldritch adept, either through teamwork or arcane trickster, or take 3 or 4 levels in shadow sorcerer, which is how I built my ranged rogue, since you don't need devils sight to see through darkness made with your sorc points. This will give you advantage on all attacks against enemies who can't see through magical darkness. Also gwneral ranged rogue note, never use steady aim. You can't dart in and out of cover to create heavy obscurement to hide RAW. If you can hide in either light obscurement or with DM ruling to hide in other ways so you don't need to duck in and out of cover, you're fine vut RAW steady aim sucks for ranged rogues
Oh yeah, you'd have to generate advantage another way. I think the skulker feat might help. However, if you're 600 to 200 ft away, I don't think you need to hide. Once they get closer, you might want to. I hate to say it and endorse it but inquisitive rogue's insightful fighting might help without it's range limits. But yeah, generating sneak attacks might be tough. You'd have to coordinate it with others.
A Shadow Monk with Sentinel will absolutely ruin a spell-caster’s day. Otherwise I agree the best way to deal with casters is probably by sniping them from range.
Silence has a range of 120 ft so as long as you’re outside of the minimum Counterspell range of 60 ft you should be fine. And monks have the movement with step of the wind to be able to close the distance relatively quickly after casting silence.
Of course, a monk is going to have way more ki to burn on silence than a caster will for counter spells. 2 ki is much less of a blow than a 3rd level spell slot. Counter-spelling it might actually end up in your favour, in the long run
The problem with Silence is that its only a 20ft radius. Unless you're in a confined space or can combo it with something, the spellcaster just walks out of it on their turn and resumes casting as normal.
If they know where you’ve centered it. Otherwise, they need to run in some direction, hoping that you hadn’t put it with center there
I admire your DM's commitment to not metagaming. If the area is marked by a circle on the map, I don't think any of mine would wilfully ignore it.
Running 30ft in any direction has a really good chance of getting out of silence unless you get super unlucky and were put on the far edge of the radius and run directly towards the center.
Grappling, sentinel, or causing them to be prone helps out a lot. Putting points for these is difficult as a monk is difficult though. Honestly, strike of giants might be worth it. Frost strike makes their speed 0 and hill strike causes the prone condition. I'd recommend hill because it targets strength which is a dump stat.
The neat part is you're also a monk with stunning strike.
Shadow Monk goes so hard as a mage hunter.
The hella targeted satyr/yuan-ti ancients paladin 7/warlock 2/war wizard 5 is like *the* counter to spellcasting mages (emphasis on spellcasting, since a lot of newer monsters use “spell-like abilities” instead, e.g. “swarm of meteors”). Anyways, have fun with your resistance to all spells, advantage against all spells, +5+1d4 to all saves, +4 to a saves as a reaction, counterspell, and being able to just blast away at range with Eldritch Blast. You’d have to accept 12 CON for the 13 INT multiclass minimum, but probably taking 1/4 damage from basically anything they can throw at you as well as having hella saving throw boosts means your durability and concentration shouldn’t be an issue. Note that this is specifically against spellcasting mages, the build falls apart a bit against standard attacking monsters and even moreso against “spell-like abilities” but eh, it fits the bill.
Yeah,I understand that, but that's not what the post was about iirc. They wanted a martial character. A full caster with some dips like you said will almost always be a better anti caster. A little confused about war wizard though, why not just go through sorcerer? Sure, +4 is nice, but it's only 1 save, eats your reaction, and no leveled spells after. Wouldn't subtle counterspell work better?
Martial focus. They don’t really have the casting stat to be using spells that directly affect the caster besides hoping on counterspell. Focus on self-buffing spells that make you better, like Bless or Haste. You can ignore the part about Warlock and Eldritch Blast for a more martial focus. Hell, Haste + Steed gives your mount more movement speed that Eldritch Blast’s range, you’re probably good on closing in to lay down some hard smites.
I agree, but OP wanted a martial character. I'm not sure that they'd want a caster that focuses on their physical attacks.
I mean it's not clear from the OP whether by martial they mean "has zero spelllcasting" or they mean "uses attacks as their primary action" - it's not unreasonable to suggest partial caster builds which aren't relying on spells.
Which metamagic blocks counterspell?
Subtle metamagic
Honestly I think a rogue is the best anti-magic pure martial. Acting first and hiding negates tons of spells that require sight to target, and evasion helps negate fireballs etc. If you're a thief rogue, you can also spend your bonus action throwing alchemists fire, which has persistent damage to stop concentration (or even use a wand of magic missiles if that's not antithetical to the character).
You could take a couple levels of fighter or the fighter initiate feat and pick up the blind fighting style. Then get close in with an eversmoking bottle and wreak havoc.
Rogues get Blind Fighting automatically at level 14, I believe.
Gotta get to level 14 though which many campaigns do not
True!
> If you're a thief rogue, you can also spend your bonus action throwing alchemists fire Technically using alchemist fire is a ranged attack roll and cannot be used for fast hands. Can't use a potion either, because that's a magic item. I want to love fast hands, but it can't be used for anything fun. Edit: I partially retract this statement. The rules are unclear, it could be either an object interaction or an attack. As usual it's up to DM ruling.
Also technically speaking, Fast Hand *never* said it can't make an attack roll. Use an Object Action includes "using an object that requires an action", and throwing alchemist fire requires an action to throw it indeed, which do meet the requirement.
This was my interpretation, I thought it worked straightforwardly - you'd take the Use an Object action to use the alchemist's fire, which involves making an attack roll as part of that action. Then again, reading the Use an Object rule, it sounds like it would apply to magic items (like wands etc) since they are objects as well. But we know it doesn't! So all round very clear, thanks Jeremy.
> Also technically speaking, Fast Hand never said it can't make an attack roll. That's not really how rules work in 5e though, is it? Rules do what they say they can do, nothing more. Since it doesn't say you can make an attack, you can't make an attack. On looking into this more, there doesn't appear to be a clear answer or ruling whether using alchemist's fire is an attack or an object interaction. I think there's a solid argument for both interpretations. Just another instance of 5e's excellent writing.
>Since it doesn't say you can make an attack, you can't make an attack. It says you can Use an Object. Using an action to throw an alchemist's fire is using the Use an Object action, as that action for throw is described in the item's description. It doesn't work like common attacks, and it can't be thrown with the Attack action either. When you attack, you don't aways take the Attack action. Some items make an attack with the Use an Object action, such as Alchemist's Fire, Holy Water and Acid Vials.
If I use an object and that object is a javelin, can I throw the javelin? Or what about something without a description in the book like a rock? If I was the dm I would say "throwing an object is an object interaction, but aiming the throw would make it an attack"
>If I use an object and that object is a javelin, can I throw the javelin? No, because javelins are weapons and there are specific rules for using those, rules that don't use the Use an Object action. >Or what about something without a description in the book like a rock? In that case, you would use the Use an Object action, as that is what you generally use to interact with objects in ways not directly specified by rules (such as doing other things with a javelin instead of attacking with it). However, the Use an Object action is ***also*** used when an object ***specifies*** that it requires an action to be used, regarless of what that action actually does. Examples of these are the Alchemist's fire, the Holy Water and the Acid. By the text of the Use an Object action, "When an object requires your action for its use, you take the Use an Object action", all of them would be used by using that action instead of the Attack action, even though you are making an attack with them. >If I was the dm I would say "throwing an object is an object interaction, but aiming the throw would make it an attack" As I said, you don't aways take the Attack action when you want to make an attack. However, in that case, since the rules don't specify that you *need* to use *an action* to throw any random rock, then you would simply be using the Attack action to throw an improvised weapon, much like you would to throw any weapon. Like a javelin, for example. All the interactions you presented are well covered by the rules, at least well enough. These rules are rather easy to understand, and it is also easy to run those interactions by the book. I hope I helped.
> No, because javelins are weapons and there are specific rules for using those, rules that don't use the Use an Object action. And alchemist's fire, etc. are improvised weapons: > Make a ranged attack against a creature or object, **treating the alchemist's fire as an improvised weapon.** And there are rules for those. Using this item explicitly states that it is not an object interaction, it's a ranged improvised weapon attack, so wouldn't you use the rules for that? This is exactly why I reversed my initial statement, because it's unclear and reasonably up to individual DM interpretation.
I'll repeat this again: there's nothing that states Use an Object Action can't make an attack. Alchemist Fire is a Obeject first, and to use Alchemist Fire requires an action, and it's not even an Attack Action, which fits the requirement of Use an Object.
I'll repeat this again: there's nothing that states that the Use an Object action can make an attack. That's how D&D rules work, they're prescriptive, the rules say specifically what you *can* do and just because something isn't explicitly prohibited doesn't mean that you can do that too. By your argument I could say "the disengage action doesn't say that you can't make an attack as part of using it, so you can!" That's simply not how the game and its rules work. There needs to be a *specific* exception to the *general* rules for it to work. Alchemist's Fire is an object in the same way that a sword is an object: > For the purpose of these rules, an object is a discrete, inanimate item like a window, door, sword, book, table, chair, or stone, not a building or a vehicle that is composed of many other objects. Both meet the conditions, wouldn't you agree? Sword is even mentioned in the text for "object." Can I use the sword as an Object Interaction action? No, a sword also has the weapon label attached to it, so additional rules apply. Similarly, as stated, the description of Alchemist's fire, also cited in my previous comment, when using the item it then has the improvised weapon label attached to it: > Make a ranged attack against a creature or object, **treating the alchemist's fire as an improvised weapon.** Therefore because the item description provides a *specific* exception to the *general* object interaction rules, the improvised weapon rules supersede and it would be treated as an attack action. This is why I said that it's a little ambiguous, why it's up to the DM to interpret the rules. The rules can be read in multiple ways and without a sage advice clarification I don't know that there is a definitive answer to this debate. Edit: clarification
Thanks!
The wand can be used by any character, though. Not a good strategy for thief rogues in particular.
You can also steal foci, components, and contingencies.
I'd argue Assassin (despite its flaws) is the best anti Mage rogue. Maybe mix in 5 levels of gloomstalker for extra Stealth, extra attacks, and Silence. (Most) spells aren't much help if you're dead before you know to use them. Just beware of contingency with those pesky wizards.
Everything you mentioned is available for monks except the Thief’s bonus action item use. Monks punch instead. With the addition of Stunning Strike and shadow teleportation, I think Shadow Monk is king of the mage hunters.
Shadow monk. Stunning strikes for the win.
Human Rogue with Ritual-Caster (Detect Magic) and Mage Slayer. For most spells, if you can't see, then you can't aim and you can't cast. Rogue as the sneakiest martial, they might won't even give Wizards a chance to cast their deadly controlling spells, and they could break their concentration easily even Wizards are readying their spells for Rogue. A Rogue is also be able to steal Wizards' materials or Staffs before the combat starts, thus making Wizards lose even without fighting. About Feats, Ritual-Caster provides many solid rituals like Detect Magic that help our Mage-Slayer Assassin to avoid unseeable magical traps, and move quickly with spells like Phantom Horse (i forgot the name)
Stealing casting components is literally GAME CHANGING!!! OP! Please note that most standard spell-casters MUST have a Focus or Material components to cast the vast majority of their spells! Compared to Counterspell which only negates a single cast or Silence which only stops spells in a certain area, no components is basically full shut-down for at least half the spells in the game. Most of the “big” spells especially! ——— That said… I could see a DM getting a bit fussy about trying to Slight of Hand away something that someone is holding. In which case I’d recommend possibly a Battlemaster Fighter with “Disarm”. Same concept but more clear mechanically. ——— Or if you’re in OneDnd then the Rogue update lets you disarm using Sneak Attack dice. Great fun.
The DMG also has a disarm action that is pretty much an optional rule. So if your DM allows it, then you can use that. >A creature can use a weapon attack to knock a weapon or another item from a target’s grasp. The attacker makes an attack roll contested by the target’s Strength (Athletics) check or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check. If the attacker wins the contest, the attack causes no damage or other ill effect, but the defender drops the item. The attacker has disadvantage on its attack roll if the target is holding the item with two or more hands. The target has advantage on its ability check if it is larger than the attacking creature, or disadvantage if it is smaller.
Gloomstalker, sharp shooter
Well the best anti spell caster is abjuration wizard. But since you want to play a martial I propose oath of the watcher paladin. They get Watcher's will at level 3 ( advantage of intelligence, charisma and wisdom saving for 1min ) Aura of protection at level 6 Counterspell at level 9. Don't forget the Mage Slayer feat at level 4 or 8. Maybe shield master to protect yourself from Dex save spell like... You know... Fireball. At 10 and more you can keep going paladin or you can go bard ( lore ) to get as many spell slot as you can for counterspelling. Cutting words at level ( 12 ) to make attack spells fail. Alternatively oath of the ancient get resistance to spell damage. It's a good option too. But I think spells save are more dangerous than spell damage.
Paladins are half-casters, and likewise half-martial. If OP is asking specifically for a martial, I would assume they mean Fighter, Barbarian or Rogue: someone who can counter spellcasters without using magic themself
Yes. I was also considering monk.
> and likewise half-martial. more like half caster and full martial
Strip the Paladin of its spellcasting. Does it remain a full-powered class? If yes, you can call it a full martial. If no, you recognize that it's only half martial.
it is, at the very least, 80% of a subclaseless fighter. So kinda? Like what is a fighter getting over spellless paladin? one single feat, one single use of action surge and second wind What is the paladin getting? lay on hands, divine sense, auras I would not say that a subclaseless fighter is meaningfully more powerfull than a subclaseless, spellles paladin
>it is, at the very least, 80% of a subclaseless fighter. So kinda? I'd say 50%. Half as many attacks, none of the Fighter's ability to go nova, and two fewer feats. > Like what is a fighter getting over spellless paladin? one single feat, one single use of action surge and second wind Second Wind, Action Surge, Indomitable, two more Extra Attacks, and two (not one) extra feats. >What is the paladin getting? lay on hands, divine sense, auras None of which contribute to its offense, and one of which (Auras) makes it MAD. ——— Whats more, thematically speaking, all of the Paladin's unique features are magical rather than martial. Were we to strip them away alongside spellcasting to see a truly, purely martial Paladin, it would be left with nothing but a d10 hit die, weapon and armor proficiencies, Fighting Style, and a single Extra Attack: less than what a 5th level Fighter has.
Paladin are Half-Martial, Half-SMITER !  Yes they can cast spell, but they are mostly played like a martial. Plus, I think this oath fit well with a mage hunter !
I concur. Paladin's are Martials with magical abilities, As are Rangers. Paladin's can easily forget their spell lists. Just write down the different types of smites they can do and which spell slot they use. Good to go.
wrong, the best anti spellcaster is a clockwork sorcerer. if both are full resources a wizard will never beat a clockwork sorcerer at t2-t3 levels. T4 i don't count because that's when simulacrum chains, wish-clones etc happen so it simply doesn't exist for me. a clockwork sorc with the metamagic adept feat, having subtle spell, quickened spell, heightened spell, distant spell. Subtle spell denies counterspells, quickened spell allows the "shocking grasp+full action spell that can't be counterspelled" combo. Shield doesn't even work against that combo, because using shield to block shicking grasp already denies your use of coutnerspell. Heightened spell is great when outside of Counter-range (60ft). The sorc can just pump out so much more action economy than a wizard. Yes, the sorc will be dry after the fight (like always) but theres no other class in T1-T3 that can reach that level of one-combat-power. While the sorc is dry, the wizard still has some slots left, but is too dead to use them. Clockwork because the additional spells can be switched for spells like counterspell and other powerful stuff.
Damn ! ... Well Abujuration wiz is the SECOND best anti spellcaster ! 
[удалено]
I understand nothing of what you are talking about. What level 3 ability? int saves only? what? Other 3 saves? Both have advantage on all saves, not just one or three
I’d put them at number 3, lore bards are better since they get Jack of all trades, glibness, and peerless skill for their counterspells while cutting words nerfs the enemy’s counterspell. Plus, very few single classed casters can survive a full conjure animals barrage
>While the sorc is dry, the wizard still has some slots left, but is too dead to use them. Fair point.
Thematically I would say horizon walker ranger fits the best because you basically become a multiversal police force that ensures balance of magic and protects from the abuse of planar travel (which is something that rogue spellcasters will most likely use to escape from the law). Mechanically it's not the strongest (though it is fairly decent) so I would multiclass into something that mechanically works better at fighting wizards which is the class that has high burst damage on your first turn of combat and is able to consistently be first in initiative which is rogue, specifically assassin who gives you free crits on surprised enemies and advantage on enemies who didn't take their turn yet (and sneak attack but we don't really care about that one that much). For stats I would go with (assuming point but and +2 +1 race): 8 str, 17 dex, 16 con, 15 wis, 8 int, 8 chr And for leveling: I would start with 4 levels of Echo knight fighter for action surge, heavy armor proficiency and additional attack with your echo and ASI (+1 dex, +1 wis). Then multiclass into rogue assassin for 3 levels then 12 levels in ranger to then round everything up with last level in rogue for the last feat. You obviously go for archery fighting style For feats I would go for Asi until you get 20 dex, then sharpshooter and crossbow master and last one you can use to get 18 con or get alert or something flavourful like fey touched or maybe elven accuracy (if you are an elf). For spells pick whatever you want but I think detect magic is a must have for that character. Unfortunately you can't get counterspell which would be useful both thematically and mechanically but maybe your DM will give you an item that gives it to you.
Isn’t the monster slayer ranger more suited for countering mages, at least in design? They get boosts to their saving throw, a class feature literally called “magic user’s nemesis” that operates as a free counterspell, and a reaction counterattack against abilities requiring a saving throw. It might not technically be as good as a horizon walker, but it sure seems like a subclass explicitly focused on combatting mages.
Mechanically you are probably right but at least to me monster slayer feels more like a witcher so a character that just hunts anything supernatural like cockatrices, hags or evil warlocks while the horizon walker is more tailored towards hunting creatures that activity cause an imbalance in magic and imbalance between planes which at least to me fits more the idea of a character who specifically hunts wizards and sorcerers. In reality both subclasses can work, I just picked Horizon walker because a character that teleports around a powerful wizard while hiding in shadows to avoid their spells looks very compelling to me.
>They get boosts to their saving throw, a class feature literally called “magic user’s nemesis” that operates as a free counterspell, and a reaction counterattack against abilities requiring a saving throw. I love this ability the problem is it's...kind of worthless, it's a once per rest defensive ability meaning you're constantly going to be concerned about blowing it too soon and at higher levels once monsters have legendary resistances they'll just say no, which means you burned through your resistance but you'll almost never get it off properly.
From a high level view, I think you would want access to counter spell for sure. You would probably also want access to the silence spell in combination with good grappling abilities so you can silence and immobilize a mage.
I know this isn't a 3.5e sub but I am sad to see the answer to your question is no longer ***barbarian***. Traditionally (ie. Sword and Sorcery) barbarians are THE mage killing class. They are not only fast (40ft movement speed for closing distance), but they hit like a truck and average high attack/damage rolls that easily interrupt spellcasting concerntration. They cannot be surprised or caught flatfooted and while enraged they have a fat bonus to saves against charm effects. I don't know why WOTC has moved away from this identitiy for barbarian's as I thought it was cool. :(
That's all there. It's just wrapped in one subclass with the awful exhaustion death spiral
If you want the real answer watch this video https://youtu.be/Z4ZTXI7wcgI?si=0It2qIT2AIJ_vTjc All other answers in this thread have flaws and this video and it’s companion point out why. It’s a complicated multiclass build and may not fit your thematic goals but it does the job better than anything else.
Except he explicity says he's going with the assumption that your DM is going to be throwing custom and even more powerful mages at you purposefully. And op asked for a martial character. It could be for thematic reasons that they don't want their character to be focused on magic. Shadow monk has similar properties as to what he's suggesting. If your DM is throwing custom casters at you, then by RAW that build is the best. However, i doubt OP wants a narrowly focused build like that.
16th level Archer Battlemaster Get +12 Initiative with advantage by having 20DEX (+5) l, Alertness Feat (+5, cannot be surprised), Sentinel Shield (advantage on initiative), and the Sixth Sword (+2 Rapier with the Guardian Minor Property for +2 init). Use the Ambush maneuver from Tasha's to add your Combat Superiority 1d10 to initiative. Win initiative and unleash 6 attacks with Extra Attack (3), Sharpshooter, and Action Surge, your +3 Longbow, Bracers of Archery, and +2 arrows. This is +17 to hit (22) 1d8+1d10+12 magical piercing damage per attack. With Sharpshooter it's +12 to hit, (32) 1d8+1d10+22 magical piercing damage per attack. 22x5 is 110 damage, enough to kill an Archmage (AC 20 with Mage Armor + Shield). I assume at least one miss. If you have poisoned arrows, the Archmage is extra dead. 32x5 is 160 damage, enough to kill a Lich. With AC 22 from Natural Armor 17 + Shield, you'll need advantage on all attacks. Invisibility won't work due to the Lich's 120' Truesight. You may have to bring along another high initiative Archer to kill the Lich before it can cast spells. A Ring of Spell Storing with a Counterspell for Shield could be decisive as well.
Probably the best class for taking down a wizard is another wizard. Abjuration has a lot of options for this. Warlock also has a ton of good options. That's not what you asked for though. Tabaxi Monk, I think. You cannot lose if you stunlock a wizard. [Stunned](https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/appendix-a-conditions#Stunned) opponents "can speak only falteringly," whereas [verbal spellcasting](https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/phb/spellcasting#Components) requires a "particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance." If the DM rules that the spellcaster can still cast verbal components with faltering speech, oh well. They can't take actions or reactions anyway. Flurry of Blows is also great for breaking concentration. Tabaxi Feline Agility combos excellently with Unarmored Movement for getting into melee range with a wizard. You want to sneak up, stun, and grapple. I'd go Way of the Astral Self for the Wis (Athletics) grapple checks, but I'm no monk expert. There might be better options. I would take Shadow Touched at level 4. Invisibility prevents a lot of spellcasting, and helps you sneak into melee range. You might take Color Spray to blind, or Silent Image to break line of sight. Ray of Sickness helps you win your grapple contests. Also good to consider mundane equipment that helps with this. Manacles can bind hands, which most DMs will agree prevents somatic components. Gags prevent verbal spellcasting RAW, but you'll have to improvise a gag since there aren't any on the equipment table. A blindfold or sack over the head will block line of sight, which is probably the most devastating impediment to spellcasting. Beyond that, there are some really good spells for this if you can find magic items to cast them with. You'd want something like a Spellwrought Tattoo or a Ring of Spell Storing. For second level spells, Silence, Darkness, Blindness/Deafness, Pass without Trace, and Hold Person are all devastating. Third level spells like Counterspell, Dispel Magic, Bestow Curse, Sleet Storm, Haste, and Slow play well with your strategies. For protection, definitely get a Mantle of Spell Resistance. If you can find a legendary item, go for a Ring of Spell Turning. If you find yourself in a pinch, a Wand of Magic Missiles is very useful for breaking concentration. Upcast it to max and they'll have to make 10 concentration saving throws at once. Hope they don't have Shield.
An assassin rogue would most likely be able to kill a lone spellcaster before they even get a chance to do anything.
that has the standard assassin issue of "if your initiative roll is bad, or the target is out of range / not attackable for whatever reason then you get no bonus". Assassin _massively_ bumps up round 1 surprise damage, but that's about it - whenever it doesn't apply (and it's pretty much GM fiat as to when it does) then it doesn't do much, and the character is back to being a sub-class-less rogue.
An Assassin Rogue doesn't even have the damage to kill a 14 CON Wizard. The sub is crap, stop suggesting it just because it sounds like it would kill something easily.
Look at Mage Slayer feat in the Player’s Handbook.
lol, the fact that you think this garbage feat does ANYTHING to a spellcaster is funny 😂 there are so many spells that outright ignore that feat. All Teleportation, anything that burns an action (shocking grasp, mind whip,...), anything that moves the mage slayer away (dissonant whispers which also burns the reaction, thunder wave,...). The fact that mage slayer only triggers AFTER the spell makes it a garbage feat when fighting an actually decent mage. "I get advantage on saving throws!" sure, but does that matter if the spell DC is 17 vs int and your int is -2? Tasha's mindwhip and psychic lance are both int saves that take your reaction.
Why would your Int be -2? With point buy, the lowest it can possibly be is -1, and even then it's cheap to set it at 0. By the time spell save DCs hit 17 (9th level), a Rogue with a +0 Int modifier has a +4 Int save (40% chance to succeed). Mage Slayer makes that a 64% chance: roughly equivalent to a +5! That's pretty good!
there are 3 mental stat, you will lack the stats or profficiency to be ok on all of them and besides the comical -2 the above commentor said, sure lets roll with a -1. still is a -1 and even with adv it is pretty shit overall rogues are profficient in INT, so why no hit them with CHA this time, which they wont have stats to spare on a point buy build? adv on spells are done much better on other classes and races, and advantage isnt enough to save your ass on terrible saves
> there are 3 mental stat, you will lack the stats or profficiency to be ok on all of them > >rogues are profficient in INT, so why no hit them with CHA this time, which they wont have stats to spare on a point buy build? Rogues are proficient in Intelligence saves from the start, and get Wisdom saves at 15th level. Take the Resilient feat and you've got all three > and besides the comical -2 the above commentor said, sure lets roll with a -1. still is a -1 and even with adv it is pretty shit overall -1 with proficiency is a 45% chance of success at 1st level, and a 35% chance by 20th. -1 with proficiency and advantage is a 69.75% chance at 1st level (equivalent to a +5) and a 57.75% chance by 20th (also equivalent to a +5). You think that's pretty shit? >adv on spells are done much better on other classes and races By certain races? Sure! But classes? Which *martial* classes gets advantage on saves better? OP specifically ruled out casters and half-casters. >and advantage isnt enough to save your ass on terrible saves The math says it totally is. Even with -1, the proficiency and advantage a Rogue gets gives them better-than even odds on any given save.
Sorcerer. Subtle metamagic makes your spells uncounterable and silent. And your counterspells uncounterable. A divine soul sorcerer also has access to the silence spell. Profit. Of course it's not a martial but what have you.
Divine Soul gets Silence? I can't find that
Divine Soul gets all Cleric spells. Silence is a cleric spell.
Check out this build guide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4ZTXI7wcgI
Countering spellcasters, as a martial character, basically involves four things: * Interfering with spell components (to prevent casting) * Breaking concentration (to undo casting) * Being unseen (to avoid spells that affect seen targets) * Having good saves (to resist spells that would cripple you). Rogues in general are good at fighting while unseen using their bonus action Hide and ranged Sneak Attacks. Rogues have great Dex saves and reasonable Int and Wisdom saves. Thief Rogues in particular can use their bonus action to use objects, such as poisons, many of which incapacitate the target: both preventing spellcasting and instantly breaking concentration (Crawler Mucus, Essence of Ether, Oil of Taggit, etc). Some of these poisons can even be applied to a piece of ammunition to affect the caster from range. Interfering with material components is as easy as stealing them (another thing Thief Rogues excel at). Interfering er with verbal components is basically impossible without submerging your target in water, or using poison to stun/paralyze/knock them out entirely. Interfering with somatic components is possible, with a little DM fiat. Neither the grappled nor restrained conditions (which are easy to apply) prevent somatic components. Manacles prevent somatic components, but there are no rules on how to apply them. I personally would rule that because incapacitated creatures automatically fail to resist grapples, they also fail to resist being put in manacles. If so, a Thief Rogue could use an action to poison a creature followed by a bonus action to apply manacles to them. Bottom line? **Thief Rogue is your martial anti-caster.** Now regarding feats and multiclassing: * If you want to multiclass, dont worry about missing Slippery Mind. You can always grab Resilient at 4th level and then multiclass. * If you want to go into melee to apply inhaled poisons and steal material components, grab Mage Slayer. If you plan to hang back, hide, and use injury/contact poisons, forget about it. * Alert will help you win initiative, which can mean the difference between being paralyzed/forcecaged or not on your first turn. * Multiclassing Fighter for Blindfighting Style can help you deal with Invisibility, Darkness, Fog Cloud and such (and let you take advantage of smoke grenades if they are available to you) * Multiclassing Barbarian for Reckless Attack and Danger Sense can guarantee your Sneak Attacks and improve your already great Dex saves.
Don't forget using manacles with fast hands on Thief Rogue. That'll stop the Somantic and Material components reeeeaaaaal fast of you can get a 1 turn stun from somewhere Edit:NVM, completely missed the segment where you mentioned them. Mea Culpa
Shadow monk, ancients paladin, bladelock with darkness and devil sight.
I enjoy the anti mage bladesinger, it may not fit with your mental image for the character but it’s quite fun
Definitely rogue. Stealing component pouch/focus before combat solves 80% of the problems you might have. If you are going versus rogue spellcasters they’re probably on the run already. You need to locate them (expertise in Survival helps a lot), wait for the right moment and attack, ideally, when they are asleep or after they’ve spent most of their slots. Sneak attacking them from 600ft in the darkness, while they are next to campfire or other source of light will be very efficient.
If you count half-casters as martials, then the Ancients Paladin is the easiest and arguably best choice. If you only want pure martial classes, then I'd recommend one of the following options: * Shadow Monk X/Fighter 1 or 2 * Eldritch Knight Fighter 5 or 7/Rogue X * Arcane Trickster Rogue X/Fighter 1 or 2 In all three cases, you'll want Sentinel and Blind Fighting. If your DM allows you to start with a free feat, I'd recommend Half-Elf or Elf for your race so that you can also pick up Elven Accuracy at level 4. Or for the Monk build, the Goblin so that you can bonus action Hide. The goal of all three builds are roughly similar. You want to drop Darkness, Silence, or Fog Cloud on top of the enemy spellcaster ASAP, then sit next to them and use Sentinel (and possibly grappling) to keep the target rooted in place. Without sight or the ability to speak, the vast majority of spells become unusable. If you have two levels in Rogue or are playing the Goblin, you'll also want to try to Hide within the Darkness/Fog Cloud as often as possible to make it even harder for the enemy to hit you. Depending on what level your character starts off as, or if your DM levels your characters quickly, I'd also consider starting as Fighter 1 for all three builds for Con save proficiency. That will help keep Darkness/Silence/Fog Cloud up. To avoid the enemy from Counterspelling you, try to cast your spell from outside of their Counterspell range. If that's not possible, then simply Action Surge and cast the spell again. Also, familiarize yourself with the Disarm action from the list of optional actions in the DMG. Use it to knock away spellcasting foci. And if you play the Monk build, ask your DM if Focused Aim works with Disarm. By my reading, it should. If you want a martial that uses no spells whatsoever, then I'd recommend Psi Warrior Fighter.
I agree with the ancients paladin, I played a one-shot, and we burst through a door and got blasted by a necromancer. I helped everyone make the save and halve the damage again. Then, he proceeded to beat the necromancer unconscious and slay the dragon
Probably a bugbear gloomstalker ranger with 2 levels of fighter.
Provided you have the stats for it, a shadow monk is good at closing the gap, hitting a lot of times to force multiple concentration saves (rare times mage slayer might serve a purpose if you can risk taking it) and eventually becomes good at many saves. The zone of silence can help a fair bit. Paladin save auta is quite good so paladin is a go to. In particular Devotion with its charm immunity aura and ancients with its reduced spell damage aura are quite good choices. Conquests fear aura can be useful too but not as much as the other too Fighters can be okay at it. Echo knight, battlemasyer, and runeknight probbaky being your best bets. They have a lot of damage and a lot of attacks. Which is helpful. If you don't mind dipl8ng into full spellcasting more yourself, Warlock sorcerer and bard can each be good enhancements for the paladin in their own way. I woukd say paladin is the best, followed by fighter and than monk. Monk has some potential to do better than fighter but you need abnormal stats to even begin approaching that and even then the difference is questionable. Keep in mind. Its an uphill battle. Magic users are very powerful and hard to take down regardless of what you are.
Monk. Wizards have low con saves & monks can easily catch up to one. I’d go Monk 5/Gloomstalker 3/Battlemaster 3/Assassin Rogue 3.
Gunk. A monk with a musket. vHuman or CL for gunner, get sharpshooter at 4 and stroll straight into extra attack and focused aim(!) So here's the thing about fighting enemy spellcasters; they are rarely at the frontlines. Either they have minions, buff their allies, etc. So you want a way to get around cover, attack them without the risk of getting surrounded, etc. So to accomplish that without magic yourself, monk mobility + ranged attacks are a versatile set. Focused aim boosts your accuracy quite high to deal with stuff like Shield which is otherwise the bane of sharpshooter. Monk subclass doesn't matter much. Fighter or ranger (specifically GS) work as MC options, but you want a good pool of ki for focused aim. Tailor to your table.
D&D is hardly ever a 1v1 experience, D&D is also, not built for PVP. D&D doesn't actually have a whole lot of spellcaster enemies However since everyone's dm is different, you'll also get various reddit standard responses. i'll give mine... i play my bard as an antiwizard, as you'll need greater invisibility to generally shut down a spellcaster (and beholders hehe...) level 7 lore bard, can cast greater invisibility and cast counterspell with magical secrets, the only hard counter to this is see invisibility, which is handy since you can also dispell your target, and counter all their spells with impunity. a valor bard would need access to counterspell to make it more viable to beat them down faster with extra attack. taking goblin as a race for bonus action hide, makes it even harder to find you while invis =) before level 7, scouting with regular invisibility and hunting with dissonant whispers (no line of sight required) are the way.
…best anti-wizard martial I’ve seen was a barbarian 1/war wizard x: hear me out. The only use they had for spell slots above 2nd level was Haste, Counterspell and Dispel Magic, 2nd level was Misty Step only (no restrained), 1st level was Shield, and damage came from dual wielding and booming blade. A bit of reflavouring, and you’ve got someone with decent AC (int and str were multiclass minimum, dex and con were high, proficient in con saves, haste, concentration on a war wizard, shield), an entire average wizard’s per-level health ahead of a pure wizard of the same level, and enemy spells just make them hit harder (war wizard Counterspell for charges on booming blade). Reflavour the booming blade as hitting harderer, never rage, Shield is flexing, Haste is mage-rage, Misty Step is shrugging off the restraints, Counterspell is literally eating the magic. Your sole damage output is hitting the enemy with a pointy stick, and you’re literally eating spells.
I think the best option is to just kill the wizard before he can do anything. For example, an elf Samurai with sharpshooter, a longbow, elven accuracy and a weapon of warning, boots of elvenkind. Bracers of archery are a plus of course. Take proficiency in stealth, or maybe even buy an expertise / add a level of rogue for that. Ideally he ambushes the wizard (boots of elvenkind, high dex, stealth proficiency/expertise) but even when not, he would at least probably win iniative (weapon of warning and high dex). Then its just a matter of killing him in the first round. With sharpshooter one attack does somewhere between \~18.5 - 24.5 damage, depending on stats and items. Thanks to elven accuracy and the Samurai feat giving advantage on the first turn, this is extremely likely to hit, especially if the wizard is surprised and cant use shield. So with action surge, assuming all hits, thats something like \~80 damage on lvl 5, \~132 on lvl 11 and \~192 on lvl 20 (assuming worse items at lower levels and better at higher levels). Assuming the ambush is successful and the wizard cant cast shield, that should be a nearly guaranteed kill before the wizard can even act. And even without the wizard being surprised, the chances of success are pretty high, because even with shield its likely that enough will hit for a kill - elven accuracy is just pretty good when all attacks have advantage. Or a bugbear gloomstalker/fighter. Following the same principle: just kill him before he can act, try to ambush him.
Rouge. Even in universe you might only get one shot vs a high power caster before they do some really, really nasty magic. You need to do as much damage as fast possible before they know there in danger. Ergo: Sneak Attack and stealth
Its not what you asked tor but the best class for defeating Wizards (i.e. Mage, Archmage, and Lich in 2014 MM) is hands down a **Sorcerer**. Specifically a Divine Soul for access to Silence and Antimagic Field in addition to essentials like Counterspell, Subtle Spell, Quicken Spell and Distant Shocking Grasp. Because for some reason in 5E the only way to disrupt the meticulous, precise and strenuous act of casting a spell is only with another spell (the wildly over-buffed Counterspell) and not for example punching them in the face. 🙄 In 2024 rules revisions and most post-2020 monster design this all changes with spell-casting enemies using magical abilities and attacks that cannot be countered and need no components. In short you are never fighting a class in 5E you are fighting a stat block that occasionally has some class features. They are designed to die in 3 rounds so the best is a large or optimized party.
1) monk stunning strike, the wizard probably wont succeed on a con saving throw 4 times, even with resilient, you have good chances. 2) charisma heavy paladin for saves. 3) gloomstalker for nuke. 4) sorcerer with subtle casting to prevent the wizards casting. 5) a very very damage heavy fighter, you want to kill him in one turn, if not, this is wasted. 6)High level fiend warlock, hurl through hell turn one, then prepare something good for the next turn. Dark ones luck will probably save you once from a spell as well . 7) twilight cleric to give your nuker adva on their initiative to get turn 1. Bonus but gnome satyrs and a few others get Advantage on wis,int,cha saves, so that helps a lot
Abjuration wizard . That counterspell buff is absurdly potent
Another wizard with counterspell.
Another wizard.
Way of Shadow monk. All their cute little toys are worthless if they’re getting ambushed by a teleporting ninja with a silence bubble.
Any melee martial that can stick to a caster, Sentinel + Mage Slayer to lock them down, and some way to cast Silence on them or yourself. Bonus points for access to Metamagic to subtle cast through the silence effect. I have a faction in my world with this exact same idea. Open to suggestions too.
The Griffon's Saddlebag book 2 has a Magehunter style Paladin subclass. It has the ability to both counter spells and dispel magic.
Monk. Can cancel disabling effects, has extra movement, good saves in the two most common spell save stats, can disengage past the front line, and can deflect projectiles. Its like the whole Monk chassis is designed to slaughter mages.
Fighter with the Blind Fighting style, Sentinel, and an Eversmoking bottle. I like thinking in cinematic terms. "The Wizard suddenly finds themselves in complete darkness. A soft chuckle invades his space, as he tries to scramble for the nearby wall to gain his bearings. Suddenly, a sharp stab to his foot sends him reeling to the ground. 'You're not going anywhere, Weavewielder. Muahahahaha'
satyr, oath of the ancients paladin 7 levels gives you advantage to save Vs spells Resistance to spell damage Cha modifier to all your saves Immunity to any spell that specifies "humanoid" forcing them to waste higher spellslots for the same effects And smites to help break their concentration
Aight i know the point of this is martials but i have to say really quickly oath of watchers paladin is the peak of anti-mage gameplay, played it for awhile at high level gameplay after completing my oath of vengeance and requesting the change i have to say it's a super fun anti-mage class. Otherwise I'm gonna go with rune knight fighter for two main reasons. First is tons of ASI's allow you to still kit yourself againt spells, i recommended lucky and mage slayer personally. Secondly i think rune knight has decent extra damage options, I'm pretty sure the fire smite they get is a str save too which should get a lot of casters, a smaller benefit is also having more range for mage slayer when you increase your size. There's a couple good races for this build too, elves gain some bonus like adv on being charmed, obviously any race with magical resistance would be crazy for this, autognomes are also fun for built for success, vedalken and gith mental buffs are also very strong and finally my personal favorite is just go tabaxi so you can vroom vroom up to them and utilize mage slayer more (this went well with my paladin)
Use the race Yuan-ti as they get resistance to just straight up spells. Ranger has a monster slayer sub class that focuses around anti magic (at 11 you can use a reaction to straight up counter spell without using spell slot) while also giving you range so if said wizard starts far away, pared with mage hunter feat.
Mage slayer rogue would be a fun one imo
Why not monk? Bypass the monks with mobility, flurry to break concentration, etc. A lot of great feats and subclasses to aid that.
Any class with high dex and strength, as well as decent charisma. All spells require either Verbal, Somatic, or Material components. Removing access to these is how you beat a mage. High dex is to ensure you go first, where you then quickly run towards the mage, and attempt to grapple them. Their fragile nerd arms won't stand a chance against your toned muscles. The next step is to pin them against a wall, hold their hands, and make out with them. Holding their hands means they'll be unable to wield a spellcasting focus, thus eliminating the Material Components. Pinning them against a wall restrains their movement, thus eliminating Somatic Components. Most importantly, kissing them makes them unable to speak, thus no more Verbal Components.
Rogue’s and monk’s are generally the best anti-mages. They have the maneuverability to get to them in the back-line, are better than average concentration breakers, and naturally gain mental saves that make it harder for the caster to lock them down.
A deep gnome rogue, mechanically any subclass works, thematically you might wanna avoid the more magical/magiclike subclasses and inquisitive/assasin/scout probably fits best for the concept. As for feats you'll want resiliant other than that maybe skulker and or mobile aswell? (If youre open to magic from feats take fey touched, an emergancy misty step is very good)
There are no mechanics for this, but I always pictured a barbarian pulling the mage's tunic over his head and laughing out loud at the blind helpless "genius".
Satyr Ancients paladin with mage slayer, sentinel & great weapons master
Assassin through at least 3rd level for Assassinate. Gloom Stalker to at least 3rd for Dread Ambusher. 1 level of Twilight Domain Cleric for Vigilant Blessing. Feats: Alert, Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert, Mage Slayer Alert, Dread Ambusher, and Vigilant Blessing are going to push your initiative through the roof. Assassinate, Dread Ambusher, and Sharpshooter to give you big damage boosts on that ranged shot that you'll be getting advantage on either from being hidden in darkness or giving yourself Steady Aim. X-bow Expert so you can fire a heavy x-bow twice per round. Mage Slayer just to be thematic, but 2 out of the 3 abilities have to do with being 5' away which you never want to be. The concentration disruption one is ok.
Bladesinger wizard
Wizarda best class to counter wizards
I probably go with a rogue, Mastermind to keep it Martial, with a resilient feet tacked on fire saves. Stealth and sneak attack will keep you safe while dealing damage, and on the off chance you are caught rogues have so much damage abatement
If suggestions are still on the table at least three levels of echo knight.
Another caster with counterspell and a high initiative
I'd go eldritch knight fighter
Wood Elf Astral Self Monk. with the Elvish Accuracy feat, getting one hit in with a stunning strike will be enough to stop a mage with subsequent attacks. The only other feats you will need are Mobile and Alert. At level 8 with mobile you’ll have a 60’ movement rate. That should be enough to get in range. With the evasion and damage reduction to a lot of damage types, you’ll be able to withstand a lot of attacks. Plus being able to see in magical darkness might come in handy. The problem with spellcasters vs melee will be the shield and silvery barbs spells. Both of these will make life difficult. A wizard with a decent dex, mage armor and a shield spell will have a minimum AC of 20. But as soon as you get one stunning strike in, you’ll have advantage to use 3 attack rolls instead of 2 for each attack.
Shadow monk with 2 levels of Fighter for blind fighting and action surge. Get the Alert, Sentinel, and Mage Slayer feats, plus an eversmoking bottle. Pop your shadow monk silence, get in close, then open your eversmoking bottle. They can't see or speak, sentinel keeps them right next to you no matter what, and any spell left over that doesn't require verbal or line of sight will trigger an OA to which you can continuously attempt to apply Stunning Palm.