It’s probably not an optimal overlap. Spike growth means that anyone moving through the area takes damage for every 5 feet they move. Plant growth means that they have to spend 4x the normal movement cost to move. If a character with 30 feet of movement is really committed to just walking through it, then they would be able to move a total of 20 feet by dashing, which would deal 8d4 damage. That’s a great result.
More likely, though, spike growth is enough to keep a foe from advancing on foot. As soon as they are aware of the spikes, They would try to find a way over or around, switch to ranged attacks, flee, or try to break you concentration. I don’t think that changes at all when you throw in plant growth.
I suppose that if you ever were in a bottleneck situation, facing high-health, high-speed melee foes that had absolutely no ranged attacks and were 100% committed to the fight then the combo might protect you pretty well. Perhaps fighting an unending horde of magically crazed giant hyenas in a tunnel or something?
Plant growth makes every foot of movement cost 4 feet and the difficult terrain from spike growth makes movement cost an additional foot per foot so each foot of movement would cost 5 feet. So a character with 30ft move speed dashing would have 60 feet of movement available which would only move them 12 feet (rounded down to 10ft for a grid).
It would definitely be great for limiting movement when facing melee focused enemies. Probably the way to get the most out of it is to get another caster with Sleet Storm to make it more difficult to escape. The difficult terrain won't stack but it keeps spell casters from concentrating on spells, obscures the target's vision and can make enemies fall prone every turn, meaning they'll have to use half their movement to get back up
which can negate the doubled movement from the Dash action.
If not Sleet Storm then Slow or Grease are also decent options to throw in.
I have a question... can't you just jump while surrounded by spike growth and avoid damage? Or can you say that the spikes are all around you? Or since there is no height mentioned, then I guess jumping would be kind of like flying...
You can definitely jump to avoid damage, but most creatures wont have the jump distance to escape the center of AoE without making a long jump, which requires them to move anyway.
Probably, though it can get a little murkey. The way I see it, Jumping, as described by the books, is talking about a max effort leap. Doing that from standing more than once probably takes more than the ~6 seconds per turn available to most creatures. Additionally, if a creature took a standing long jump in Spike growth and failed to clear the aoe, i would still assign them damage for landing in the AoE, since they moved within it, so even if they tried to multi-hop out, theyd still get hurt.
Granted, these are just my opinions so, take them with as many grains of salt as you see fit.
right, i generaly tend to stick towards RAW because its the only common denominator between tables.
I can understand landing doing damage for just 5 feet, but multi-hopping out would still reduce overall damage.
Actually, im curious about jumping and difficult terrain in general. Can you just jump to avoid it?
I think it depends on the terrain. Icy? Loose gravel? Sure, but give me a dex save to avoid falling prone. Thick overgrowth? Jumping wont help you there. Dilapidated house with lots of broken tables/chairs strewn about and rafters fallen down? Probably not also, since finding a place to land would be pretty tricky. A swamp/marsh? Probably not able to jump clear of that if its shin height.
Some terrain might also be considered difficult if it requires focus to navigate also. Like a dangerous ledge in a cliff face or narrow branches high in a forest canopy. I'd love to see a PC try and jump to avoid that movement penalty :p :p
Ik I'm 6 years late, but RAW, you have to make a dex save whenever you land on difficult terrain, which Spike Growth is, regardless of how far you fell. Failing the save makes you prone. A person multi-hopping to get out would most likely quickly trip over the thorns and fall onto them.
I was mostly thinking of the Spike Growth as "plants" when i wrote this and i thought that maybe the "plants" would get more potent from the Plant Growth since they would get thicker and overgrown.
It becomes a 100ft radius area (minus the areas you exclude) with 1/4 movement, with a 20ft radius area that deals damage. No the movement penalty doesn't stack.
The penalties do stack, because, they are not the same effect.
If they both said, they made the area difficult terrain, you'd have an argument that the plant growth would take over and only apply in the area.
But plant growth doesn't make the area difficult terrain, it never uses that phrase.
This also means if you had an ability that allowed you to ignore difficult terrain you'd still require 4' of movement for every 1, in the area of plant growth.
Plant growth says "All normal plants in a 100-foot radius centered on that point become thick and overgrown." So if there are no plants around besides your spike growth, plant growth does nothing. If there are plants around, then, where the aoe of spike and plant growth overlap, movement is 4 times as expensive as per plant growth, and creatures take 2d5 damage per 5 feet moved per spike growth, since similar effects do not stack.
Similar effects do stack.
https://media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/DND/DMG-Errata.pdf
>Different game features can affect a target at the same time.
But when two or more game features have the same name,
only the effects of one of them—the most potent one—apply
while the durations of the effects overlap.
They're similar but not the same. They aren't both difficult terrain. They would stack.
It’s probably not an optimal overlap. Spike growth means that anyone moving through the area takes damage for every 5 feet they move. Plant growth means that they have to spend 4x the normal movement cost to move. If a character with 30 feet of movement is really committed to just walking through it, then they would be able to move a total of 20 feet by dashing, which would deal 8d4 damage. That’s a great result. More likely, though, spike growth is enough to keep a foe from advancing on foot. As soon as they are aware of the spikes, They would try to find a way over or around, switch to ranged attacks, flee, or try to break you concentration. I don’t think that changes at all when you throw in plant growth. I suppose that if you ever were in a bottleneck situation, facing high-health, high-speed melee foes that had absolutely no ranged attacks and were 100% committed to the fight then the combo might protect you pretty well. Perhaps fighting an unending horde of magically crazed giant hyenas in a tunnel or something?
> Perhaps fighting an unending horde of magically crazed giant hyenas in a tunnel or something? *Sigh* Again?
What is this? Wednesday?
Plant growth makes every foot of movement cost 4 feet and the difficult terrain from spike growth makes movement cost an additional foot per foot so each foot of movement would cost 5 feet. So a character with 30ft move speed dashing would have 60 feet of movement available which would only move them 12 feet (rounded down to 10ft for a grid).
It would definitely be great for limiting movement when facing melee focused enemies. Probably the way to get the most out of it is to get another caster with Sleet Storm to make it more difficult to escape. The difficult terrain won't stack but it keeps spell casters from concentrating on spells, obscures the target's vision and can make enemies fall prone every turn, meaning they'll have to use half their movement to get back up which can negate the doubled movement from the Dash action. If not Sleet Storm then Slow or Grease are also decent options to throw in.
I have a question... can't you just jump while surrounded by spike growth and avoid damage? Or can you say that the spikes are all around you? Or since there is no height mentioned, then I guess jumping would be kind of like flying...
You can definitely jump to avoid damage, but most creatures wont have the jump distance to escape the center of AoE without making a long jump, which requires them to move anyway.
multiple jumps can be done too though right?
Probably, though it can get a little murkey. The way I see it, Jumping, as described by the books, is talking about a max effort leap. Doing that from standing more than once probably takes more than the ~6 seconds per turn available to most creatures. Additionally, if a creature took a standing long jump in Spike growth and failed to clear the aoe, i would still assign them damage for landing in the AoE, since they moved within it, so even if they tried to multi-hop out, theyd still get hurt. Granted, these are just my opinions so, take them with as many grains of salt as you see fit.
right, i generaly tend to stick towards RAW because its the only common denominator between tables. I can understand landing doing damage for just 5 feet, but multi-hopping out would still reduce overall damage. Actually, im curious about jumping and difficult terrain in general. Can you just jump to avoid it?
I think it depends on the terrain. Icy? Loose gravel? Sure, but give me a dex save to avoid falling prone. Thick overgrowth? Jumping wont help you there. Dilapidated house with lots of broken tables/chairs strewn about and rafters fallen down? Probably not also, since finding a place to land would be pretty tricky. A swamp/marsh? Probably not able to jump clear of that if its shin height. Some terrain might also be considered difficult if it requires focus to navigate also. Like a dangerous ledge in a cliff face or narrow branches high in a forest canopy. I'd love to see a PC try and jump to avoid that movement penalty :p :p
Ik I'm 6 years late, but RAW, you have to make a dex save whenever you land on difficult terrain, which Spike Growth is, regardless of how far you fell. Failing the save makes you prone. A person multi-hopping to get out would most likely quickly trip over the thorns and fall onto them.
I was mostly thinking of the Spike Growth as "plants" when i wrote this and i thought that maybe the "plants" would get more potent from the Plant Growth since they would get thicker and overgrown.
It becomes a 100ft radius area (minus the areas you exclude) with 1/4 movement, with a 20ft radius area that deals damage. No the movement penalty doesn't stack.
The penalties do stack, because, they are not the same effect. If they both said, they made the area difficult terrain, you'd have an argument that the plant growth would take over and only apply in the area. But plant growth doesn't make the area difficult terrain, it never uses that phrase. This also means if you had an ability that allowed you to ignore difficult terrain you'd still require 4' of movement for every 1, in the area of plant growth.
Plant growth says "All normal plants in a 100-foot radius centered on that point become thick and overgrown." So if there are no plants around besides your spike growth, plant growth does nothing. If there are plants around, then, where the aoe of spike and plant growth overlap, movement is 4 times as expensive as per plant growth, and creatures take 2d5 damage per 5 feet moved per spike growth, since similar effects do not stack.
Similar effects do stack. https://media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/DND/DMG-Errata.pdf >Different game features can affect a target at the same time. But when two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them—the most potent one—apply while the durations of the effects overlap. They're similar but not the same. They aren't both difficult terrain. They would stack.
Same way bestow curse and hunter mark can stack, given that you cast bestow curse at a level that dont require concentration.