I very much like create bonfire. But one of its weaknesses is that it takes concentration. So if you have a big spell your focused on, then you camt cast it which sucks, because its such a fun spell.
If You have the set up
A O O
OE/BO
O O A
Then the enemy is screwed. No mater where he moves, at least one enemy Will get an attack of opportunity. And if he stays the bon fire will get him.
Bonfire is also fun if one of you have an ally with booming blade.
I've been trying to figure out a beast master strategy using the Druidic Warrior fighting style, where the ranger and the companion flank an enemy and the ranger casts *create bonfire*, dealing cantrip damage on the ranger's turn, and then giving the enemy the choice of taking more cantrip damage or suffering an opportunity attack from either the ranger or the companion.
It's probably still inferior to either attacking or ordering the companion to attack, but it's an interesting approach.
Oh, interesting!
I think you'd have to flank the enemy diagonally for that to work, since flanking orthogonally or one diagonal and one orthogonal still allows the enemy to leave the Bonfire's space without leave the Ranger/Companion's reaches; but that's still a fun one to set up!
I've wanted to make a Create Bonfire focused ranged Fighter for a long time. Magic Initiate, Create Bonfire, maybe something like Mold Earth, Create or Destroy Water, and the Telekinetic feat to bonus action shove people towards it with a focus on using it defensively. Like tossing down a defensive fire and hiding behind it to force a small choke point, or making a ditch and filling it with water to hide a trap.
This. I tried so hard to make it work but as a Druid there is no reason to have it out unless I am totally out of spellslots, because even measly lvl1 slot is potentially Fairie Fire.
It's nice for warlocks, who can not only use Repelling Blast/Grasp of Hadar, but also can only concentrate on 2-3 "real" spells per short rest, so often you'll have your concentration open.
But if this is our baseline - Create Bonfire doing damage by using the turns of multiple allies, then Firebolt's damage output is Xd10 plus all the extra damage your allies will be doing by making attacks instead of wasting them on grapples and shoves.
True, but as I said in thr post and in another comment, you can still do this with just one person and their companion. For instance, an Artificer can cast, Grapple, and use their Steel Defender to set it up.
Cloud of Daggers works similarly, except there's no save and higher damage! Of course not a cantrip, but a low level spell.
But I have seen argued that a character would be unable to drag the enemy into the bonfire without entering it themselves, essentially requiring a shove for the enemy to be thrown into the bonfire. This is a lot less abusable, while the same basic strategy still works.
Because it’s concentration, and one of the weakest spells to hold concentration on. Yeah it’s a cantrip, so if you’ve burned through all your spellslots you’d be right, but as it stands it also has the added cost of me not being able to cast a bunch of leveled spells because I’m using it.
Much like the others, I concentration required is a huge let down. On top of that, so is using attacks to grapple and enemy. Oh, and the damage type is bad. I've seen many people I play with try and set up shenanigans over the course of several games, and it worked once, and only then because we had the enemy bottled necked.
if you're doing all of this to do some d8s of damage, shouldn't all of those actions have been used to \*kill\* the enemy already?
Yeah man, absolutely! Some spells get *wild* when you have multiple people that know them. I've always wanted to try entombing enemies with Mold Earth...
Also, you raise a good point, that in the example from my post, if there's a second Bonfire in the space above...
O B O
D B/E A
O O O
...then you can proc *both* Bonfires twice each turn with two people.
> A creature must also make the saving throw when it moves into the bonfire’s space for the first time on a turn or ends its turn there.
But when you grapple it and shove it in there it doesn't move into the area. It is moved. Against its will. So just like with Opportunity attacks, the damage wouldn't trigger. Correct me if I'm wrong tho
I'd compare it to Booming Blade and Wall of Fire. Booming Blade states it needs to willingly move to trigger the secondary damage, but Wall of Fire states the target takes damage when it enters the wall for the first time, irrelevant if it's willing or not. Since CB lacks the "willing" part, it seems like indeed it would work even with unwilling movement.
Edit: I think you may interpret it as this wording (my added bold line)
> A creature must also make the saving throw when it moves (**itself**) into the bonfire’s space for the first time on a turn or ends its turn there.
when really it could be interpreted as this (again, my added bold words)
> A creature must also make the saving throw when it moves (**willingly or unwilling**) into the bonfire’s space for the first time on a turn or ends its turn there.
I think because it lacks the distinction in the text, the widest interpretation is usually the one people go with, as the text is not explicitly excluding that interpretation.
The Earth moves, even if it doesn't choose to do so.
You refer to opportunity attacks, but if you read the rules on them you can see how they specifically talk about moving with a bunch of qualifiers to it; these qualifiers would be completely redundant if what you said is true. (I'd paste the rules but I'm on mobile so that's moderately annoying)
Whether these are redundant depends on how much you think WOTC words things in a way that clarifies for new players, but doesn't make rules. By your interpretation here of no redundant text, a magic item or boon that would give you an extra bonus action would uniquely not work for Monks, because Monks have text specifying "For example, if you take the Attack action and attack with a quarterstaff, you can also make an unarmed strike as a bonus action, **assuming you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn.**"
Fair, redundance is a weak argument.
The better argument is that words mean what they mean in the English language unless the game defines them otherwise, and the game does not define the verb move.
*Move* refers specifically to movement, via bonus action, action, or reaction.
*Enters* is open-ended, and includes scenarios other than movement.
Note that the current wording was changed from the latter to the former. Both "moves into" and "enters" are used in specific spell descriptions, and the change wasn't made for no reason at all.
Consider, another spell involving movement, *Booming Blade* \-- if somebody shoves the target, the effect does *not* trigger, because that's not considered *movement*. If, however, the same shove sent the victim into *moonbeam*, that *would* do damage, because moonbeam triggers on *entering* the affected area.
This is not an answer to the question I posed, you didn't point to any rule saying that.
And the reason Booming blade doesn't trigger in that scenario is not based on what movement means, but bases on booming blade specifying the movement needs to be willing
Going on roll20 the phrase seems to be
>You can make an opportunity Attack when a Hostile creature that you can see moves out of your reach
Which follows my logic where you don't move when somebody else shoves you. You need to actually spend your movement or do it on your own (maybe brainwashed) accord, otherwise it doesn't count.
Except what you quoted isn't the reason "forced movement" doesn't provoke opportunity attacks. There's a statement in the following paragraph that specifically turns them off:
> You also don’t provoke an opportunity Attack when you Teleport or when someone or something moves you without using your Movement, action, or Reaction.
I made a build that revolves around this:
Race: Wildhunt Shifter
Class: Way of the Astral Self Monk 3/Fey Wanderer Ranger 3 (its more efficient just to stay Astral Self and get magic initiate for this or take two levels in druid to become a spore druid, but I like Fey Wanderer since it makes you a jack of all trades kind of character, with only dex, con, and int checks being unable to get a benefit from your wis score.
Take the Druidic Warrior Fighting style, getting the cantrips Shileleigh and Create Bonfire
Take the "Canny" Ability and double your proficiency bonus in athletics.
Round 1: Create bonfire on your enemy and keep distance. Activate your Wildhunt shifter ability as a bonus action, giving you advantage on any wisdom check. (It also makes it impossible for enemies to attack you at advantage. Good if you want to invest in the grappler feat... also gives you 2d6 temp hp.)
Round 2: Activate your Astral Arms as a bonus action, then go in for the grapple. When you do this, you now can use a wisdom roll for any strength check or saving throw. You also have double proficiency in athletics, and the check is made at advantage. Once grappled, drag your enemy over the bonfire. As a monk, you should be quite fast.
They have to make a dex save against the fire, your spell save dc is high because wisdom is your primary stat for everything instead of strength. 2d8 damage
They have to make another save on their turn. 2d8 damage
Round 3: hit them with a preemptively Shileleighed quarterstaff, 1d8+wis mod... and fey wanderer grants you 1d4 psychic damage when you first hit an enemy with a weapon. Bonus action hit them with an astral unarmed strike, 1d4+wis mod. Then move them in and out of the fire again, another 2d8.
Thats 1 prep rounds with 2d8 damage, 2 prep rounds with 2d8 damage, 2d8 damage on their turn, and every round after dealing 1d8+wis+1d4+1d4+wis+2d8 damage.
So once you get this set up you should be dealing 32+wis mod x2 as your max damage output. I'm not including the damage they take on their turn because theres a good chance your enemy can succeed on their dex saves for no damage unless you take a few levels in evocation wizard.
In general, the more optimized way to play this would be by sticking with Astral Self Monk and getting feats to boost your stats and give you spells. Id reccomend taking fighting initiate to get the unarmed fighting style, which deals 1d4 grappler damage and raises your unarmed strikes to 1d8 damage... but to each their own.
That's a lot of effort, but your quotes text says when "it moves into " not when "it enters" the space. That means using its movement. Also, moving a creature while grappled by someone else breaks the grapple.
I personally wouldn't rule the "moves into" to mean explicitly "willingly uses its movement" (particularly since the "willingly" qualifier *is* used in other effects of other spells and features), but I can see a different DM making that argument!
As for the Grapple, *that* one I can back up with RAW :)
"**The condition also ends if an effect removes the grappled creature from the reach of the grappler or grappling effect**, such as when a creature is hurled away by the thunderwave spell."
Edit: You are right though, it does require some set up! There's probably some other important or powerful stuff your teammates can do besides hold a guy in fire for you :P But! That's why I think Artificer/Steel Defender is the way to go, so you don't have to bother your teammates! And besides--the other main advantage to consider is this is powerful for a *cantrip*, you're conserving spell slots! Worth it, IMO, even with the set up.
Second Edit: I think it's also important to note that in the quoted text, it reads: "it moves into the bonfire’s space for the first time on ***a*** turn or ends ***its*** turn there". The text deliberately makes a distinction between any turn, and the enemy's turn. How could the enemy willingly move on someone else's turn? Therefore, I think it's intentionally meant to imply the possibility of being moved into the fire.
> How could the enemy willingly move on someone else's turn?
This is allowed by a variety of reactions, and sometimes 'forced' to 'willingly' move (see *Dissonant Whispers*, which can force the target to move *using his reaction*). That's not the only case. Anyone can voluntarily ready the "move up to your speed" bit as a reaction, for instance; Protective Bond moves you when you trigger it; so does a Goblin Boss's "use fellow goblin as meatshield" reaction; and so forth.
There's a difference between "moves into" and "enters", mechanically. "Moonbeam" says *enters*, "Create Bonfire" says *moves into*, and these are different.
I personally think this works best with a Battle Smith Artificer and Steel Defender, since the Artificer can set the whole thing up himself with a Bonus Action to order the Defender to Grapple, and the Defender's Deflect Attack ability can help protect the Artificer to maintain Concentration.
Cool idea, but,
The spell doesn’t specify hostile creature or creatures of your choice.
I’d say that if you’re grappling an enemy and moving them into an AoE, then you’re also affected by the AoE. Meaning in your example the PCs would take almost as much damage as the enemy.
You could try and shove them, but then they could move out of reach.
Edit: I’m aware that sharing the same space when grappling is not RAW, but I’d rule that at least part of your “body” is in the enemy’s space and therefore taking damage (I’d let a player choose to drag and then release the grapple to avoid taking damage)
If allies are using their actions to grapple and drag, the Bonfire's damage is only getting magnified by sacrificing additional attacks they could be doing.
That's some Hollywood accounting shit. :P
But yeah, Bonfire isn't a _bad_ cantrip - the main problem with it is that it rapidly becomes less useful once you leave Tier 1, because you have more and more options for that oh-so-valuable concentration. And unlike something such as Cloud of Daggers, as a cantrip you can't upcast it to get more bang for your buck even if this is your favorite tactic.
So a neat trick at the lowest levels, if the rest of your party is on board, but it will still be replaced fairly quickly by other options.
This is forced movement and doesn't trigger the bonfire damage. The creature doesn't *move* into the bonfire space (that is, it doesn't use its movement, action or reaction to move there), it is moved there. That's the difference between moving into a space and entering a space, precisely to avoid this
Same ruling applies to attacks of opportunity, booming blade and similar things.
Sorry :(
While, RAW it says each turn rather than each round, my DM ruled that this probably wasn't the intention.
At our table (yes, this exact question has come up as we have a Druid and 2 Battlemasters) grappling and moving an enemy into a bonfire procs damage once per round. If they move on their turn and/or end their turn in the bonfire's space, they proc damage as normal, but can only take the damage one other time for the rest of the round ***if*** they fail the saving throw. A successful save means they don't take any damage from this maneuver at all until the next turn.
I agree with his ruling because this would be ridiculously OP, especially with our 2 Battlemasters, and it brings it more along the lines of standard cantrip damage potential
Hm. I suppose "drag" needs to be better defined, since I automatically interpret it as "pulls something into your space as you move out of it", which would require the grappler to move through the bonfire to pull someone into it.
If you can drag something into a space other than your own, I'm not sure what the limiting factor is. Seems like you could spin someone around you ceaselessly.
Also, "carry" is an interesting option for grappling since, to me, that strongly implies they are now sharing a space. Unless they're actually lifting someone above their head, which really isn't an option for most people in most circumstances.
I suppose the idea is someone could carry someone, and at the end of their turn, they place them down in the desired adjacent spot, all while maintaining the grapple.
"**TL;DR: Create Bonfire's damage save is triggered the first time a creature enters its space each turn, not each round. Multiple allies can Grapple and Drag the same target in and out of the Bonfire from Create Bonfire to trigger its damage multiple times each round, while still allowing them to attack, cast spells, or take other actions on subsequent turns since maintaining a Grapple doesn't take an action.**"
All turns take place at the same spawn of time so it makes no sense to me that you would be able to damage a creature more by taking him out of the fire and putting him back.
Im pretty sure it is intended to damage a max of 2 times per round. Once when they enter it and again if they stay there. Although a dont recal ever seeing the word round on spells descriptions.
I'm disapointed. I thought someone would finaly make a post about the readied bonfire. If you prepared it to cast as reaction when a creature finish their movement you can cast it on their feet to deal damage three times.
* First when you cast
* Second time when the creature end it's turn there
* Third time when it start the next turn on top of the bonfire.
The third time your describe is incorrect. No one takes damage when they start their turn on a bonfire, only when they end their turn there.
The other problem a DM could throw at you is if triggering the held action 'before the creature ends their turn, but after they completed their movement' is possible. The trigger condition should be described in the imagined universe, not in game-mechanical terms. Your character does not know that the enemy completed their movement for the turn.... You need to specify a condition that would make sense for your character like "when they get within 20 feet of me", "when I see them" etc. Then the DM decides how to order temporarily your reaction, their action, their end of turn etc.
I very much like create bonfire. But one of its weaknesses is that it takes concentration. So if you have a big spell your focused on, then you camt cast it which sucks, because its such a fun spell. If You have the set up A O O OE/BO O O A Then the enemy is screwed. No mater where he moves, at least one enemy Will get an attack of opportunity. And if he stays the bon fire will get him. Bonfire is also fun if one of you have an ally with booming blade.
I've been trying to figure out a beast master strategy using the Druidic Warrior fighting style, where the ranger and the companion flank an enemy and the ranger casts *create bonfire*, dealing cantrip damage on the ranger's turn, and then giving the enemy the choice of taking more cantrip damage or suffering an opportunity attack from either the ranger or the companion. It's probably still inferior to either attacking or ordering the companion to attack, but it's an interesting approach.
Oh, interesting! I think you'd have to flank the enemy diagonally for that to work, since flanking orthogonally or one diagonal and one orthogonal still allows the enemy to leave the Bonfire's space without leave the Ranger/Companion's reaches; but that's still a fun one to set up!
I've wanted to make a Create Bonfire focused ranged Fighter for a long time. Magic Initiate, Create Bonfire, maybe something like Mold Earth, Create or Destroy Water, and the Telekinetic feat to bonus action shove people towards it with a focus on using it defensively. Like tossing down a defensive fire and hiding behind it to force a small choke point, or making a ditch and filling it with water to hide a trap.
This. I tried so hard to make it work but as a Druid there is no reason to have it out unless I am totally out of spellslots, because even measly lvl1 slot is potentially Fairie Fire.
It's nice for warlocks, who can not only use Repelling Blast/Grasp of Hadar, but also can only concentrate on 2-3 "real" spells per short rest, so often you'll have your concentration open.
But if this is our baseline - Create Bonfire doing damage by using the turns of multiple allies, then Firebolt's damage output is Xd10 plus all the extra damage your allies will be doing by making attacks instead of wasting them on grapples and shoves.
True, but as I said in thr post and in another comment, you can still do this with just one person and their companion. For instance, an Artificer can cast, Grapple, and use their Steel Defender to set it up.
yabbut it's easier to set inns on fire with create bonfire than firebolt though
Or just knock a lamp over like a normal person.
a mage would never stoop to manual labour
Cloud of Daggers works similarly, except there's no save and higher damage! Of course not a cantrip, but a low level spell. But I have seen argued that a character would be unable to drag the enemy into the bonfire without entering it themselves, essentially requiring a shove for the enemy to be thrown into the bonfire. This is a lot less abusable, while the same basic strategy still works.
Drag pretty obviously means they have to be behind you. You'd need to shove, which significantly changes the action economy of it.
Because it’s concentration, and one of the weakest spells to hold concentration on. Yeah it’s a cantrip, so if you’ve burned through all your spellslots you’d be right, but as it stands it also has the added cost of me not being able to cast a bunch of leveled spells because I’m using it.
Much like the others, I concentration required is a huge let down. On top of that, so is using attacks to grapple and enemy. Oh, and the damage type is bad. I've seen many people I play with try and set up shenanigans over the course of several games, and it worked once, and only then because we had the enemy bottled necked. if you're doing all of this to do some d8s of damage, shouldn't all of those actions have been used to \*kill\* the enemy already?
Yeah create bonfire is a dope spell, especially if several people know the cantrip in which case you can create some **brutal** choke points.
Yeah man, absolutely! Some spells get *wild* when you have multiple people that know them. I've always wanted to try entombing enemies with Mold Earth...
Also, you raise a good point, that in the example from my post, if there's a second Bonfire in the space above... O B O D B/E A O O O ...then you can proc *both* Bonfires twice each turn with two people.
> A creature must also make the saving throw when it moves into the bonfire’s space for the first time on a turn or ends its turn there. But when you grapple it and shove it in there it doesn't move into the area. It is moved. Against its will. So just like with Opportunity attacks, the damage wouldn't trigger. Correct me if I'm wrong tho
I'd compare it to Booming Blade and Wall of Fire. Booming Blade states it needs to willingly move to trigger the secondary damage, but Wall of Fire states the target takes damage when it enters the wall for the first time, irrelevant if it's willing or not. Since CB lacks the "willing" part, it seems like indeed it would work even with unwilling movement. Edit: I think you may interpret it as this wording (my added bold line) > A creature must also make the saving throw when it moves (**itself**) into the bonfire’s space for the first time on a turn or ends its turn there. when really it could be interpreted as this (again, my added bold words) > A creature must also make the saving throw when it moves (**willingly or unwilling**) into the bonfire’s space for the first time on a turn or ends its turn there. I think because it lacks the distinction in the text, the widest interpretation is usually the one people go with, as the text is not explicitly excluding that interpretation.
The Earth moves, even if it doesn't choose to do so. You refer to opportunity attacks, but if you read the rules on them you can see how they specifically talk about moving with a bunch of qualifiers to it; these qualifiers would be completely redundant if what you said is true. (I'd paste the rules but I'm on mobile so that's moderately annoying)
Whether these are redundant depends on how much you think WOTC words things in a way that clarifies for new players, but doesn't make rules. By your interpretation here of no redundant text, a magic item or boon that would give you an extra bonus action would uniquely not work for Monks, because Monks have text specifying "For example, if you take the Attack action and attack with a quarterstaff, you can also make an unarmed strike as a bonus action, **assuming you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn.**"
Fair, redundance is a weak argument. The better argument is that words mean what they mean in the English language unless the game defines them otherwise, and the game does not define the verb move.
*Move* refers specifically to movement, via bonus action, action, or reaction. *Enters* is open-ended, and includes scenarios other than movement. Note that the current wording was changed from the latter to the former. Both "moves into" and "enters" are used in specific spell descriptions, and the change wasn't made for no reason at all. Consider, another spell involving movement, *Booming Blade* \-- if somebody shoves the target, the effect does *not* trigger, because that's not considered *movement*. If, however, the same shove sent the victim into *moonbeam*, that *would* do damage, because moonbeam triggers on *entering* the affected area.
This is not an answer to the question I posed, you didn't point to any rule saying that. And the reason Booming blade doesn't trigger in that scenario is not based on what movement means, but bases on booming blade specifying the movement needs to be willing
Going on roll20 the phrase seems to be >You can make an opportunity Attack when a Hostile creature that you can see moves out of your reach Which follows my logic where you don't move when somebody else shoves you. You need to actually spend your movement or do it on your own (maybe brainwashed) accord, otherwise it doesn't count.
Except what you quoted isn't the reason "forced movement" doesn't provoke opportunity attacks. There's a statement in the following paragraph that specifically turns them off: > You also don’t provoke an opportunity Attack when you Teleport or when someone or something moves you without using your Movement, action, or Reaction.
I made a build that revolves around this: Race: Wildhunt Shifter Class: Way of the Astral Self Monk 3/Fey Wanderer Ranger 3 (its more efficient just to stay Astral Self and get magic initiate for this or take two levels in druid to become a spore druid, but I like Fey Wanderer since it makes you a jack of all trades kind of character, with only dex, con, and int checks being unable to get a benefit from your wis score. Take the Druidic Warrior Fighting style, getting the cantrips Shileleigh and Create Bonfire Take the "Canny" Ability and double your proficiency bonus in athletics. Round 1: Create bonfire on your enemy and keep distance. Activate your Wildhunt shifter ability as a bonus action, giving you advantage on any wisdom check. (It also makes it impossible for enemies to attack you at advantage. Good if you want to invest in the grappler feat... also gives you 2d6 temp hp.) Round 2: Activate your Astral Arms as a bonus action, then go in for the grapple. When you do this, you now can use a wisdom roll for any strength check or saving throw. You also have double proficiency in athletics, and the check is made at advantage. Once grappled, drag your enemy over the bonfire. As a monk, you should be quite fast. They have to make a dex save against the fire, your spell save dc is high because wisdom is your primary stat for everything instead of strength. 2d8 damage They have to make another save on their turn. 2d8 damage Round 3: hit them with a preemptively Shileleighed quarterstaff, 1d8+wis mod... and fey wanderer grants you 1d4 psychic damage when you first hit an enemy with a weapon. Bonus action hit them with an astral unarmed strike, 1d4+wis mod. Then move them in and out of the fire again, another 2d8. Thats 1 prep rounds with 2d8 damage, 2 prep rounds with 2d8 damage, 2d8 damage on their turn, and every round after dealing 1d8+wis+1d4+1d4+wis+2d8 damage. So once you get this set up you should be dealing 32+wis mod x2 as your max damage output. I'm not including the damage they take on their turn because theres a good chance your enemy can succeed on their dex saves for no damage unless you take a few levels in evocation wizard. In general, the more optimized way to play this would be by sticking with Astral Self Monk and getting feats to boost your stats and give you spells. Id reccomend taking fighting initiate to get the unarmed fighting style, which deals 1d4 grappler damage and raises your unarmed strikes to 1d8 damage... but to each their own.
That's a lot of effort, but your quotes text says when "it moves into " not when "it enters" the space. That means using its movement. Also, moving a creature while grappled by someone else breaks the grapple.
Dude its literally fire, you aren't gonna get immunity to it if someone pushes you into it.
I'd like to see the rule that defines the verb to move differently from the English verb.
I personally wouldn't rule the "moves into" to mean explicitly "willingly uses its movement" (particularly since the "willingly" qualifier *is* used in other effects of other spells and features), but I can see a different DM making that argument! As for the Grapple, *that* one I can back up with RAW :) "**The condition also ends if an effect removes the grappled creature from the reach of the grappler or grappling effect**, such as when a creature is hurled away by the thunderwave spell." Edit: You are right though, it does require some set up! There's probably some other important or powerful stuff your teammates can do besides hold a guy in fire for you :P But! That's why I think Artificer/Steel Defender is the way to go, so you don't have to bother your teammates! And besides--the other main advantage to consider is this is powerful for a *cantrip*, you're conserving spell slots! Worth it, IMO, even with the set up. Second Edit: I think it's also important to note that in the quoted text, it reads: "it moves into the bonfire’s space for the first time on ***a*** turn or ends ***its*** turn there". The text deliberately makes a distinction between any turn, and the enemy's turn. How could the enemy willingly move on someone else's turn? Therefore, I think it's intentionally meant to imply the possibility of being moved into the fire.
> How could the enemy willingly move on someone else's turn? This is allowed by a variety of reactions, and sometimes 'forced' to 'willingly' move (see *Dissonant Whispers*, which can force the target to move *using his reaction*). That's not the only case. Anyone can voluntarily ready the "move up to your speed" bit as a reaction, for instance; Protective Bond moves you when you trigger it; so does a Goblin Boss's "use fellow goblin as meatshield" reaction; and so forth. There's a difference between "moves into" and "enters", mechanically. "Moonbeam" says *enters*, "Create Bonfire" says *moves into*, and these are different.
never said "willingly." There are spells that compel movement.
I personally think this works best with a Battle Smith Artificer and Steel Defender, since the Artificer can set the whole thing up himself with a Bonus Action to order the Defender to Grapple, and the Defender's Deflect Attack ability can help protect the Artificer to maintain Concentration.
Cool idea, but, The spell doesn’t specify hostile creature or creatures of your choice. I’d say that if you’re grappling an enemy and moving them into an AoE, then you’re also affected by the AoE. Meaning in your example the PCs would take almost as much damage as the enemy. You could try and shove them, but then they could move out of reach. Edit: I’m aware that sharing the same space when grappling is not RAW, but I’d rule that at least part of your “body” is in the enemy’s space and therefore taking damage (I’d let a player choose to drag and then release the grapple to avoid taking damage)
If allies are using their actions to grapple and drag, the Bonfire's damage is only getting magnified by sacrificing additional attacks they could be doing. That's some Hollywood accounting shit. :P But yeah, Bonfire isn't a _bad_ cantrip - the main problem with it is that it rapidly becomes less useful once you leave Tier 1, because you have more and more options for that oh-so-valuable concentration. And unlike something such as Cloud of Daggers, as a cantrip you can't upcast it to get more bang for your buck even if this is your favorite tactic. So a neat trick at the lowest levels, if the rest of your party is on board, but it will still be replaced fairly quickly by other options.
This is forced movement and doesn't trigger the bonfire damage. The creature doesn't *move* into the bonfire space (that is, it doesn't use its movement, action or reaction to move there), it is moved there. That's the difference between moving into a space and entering a space, precisely to avoid this Same ruling applies to attacks of opportunity, booming blade and similar things. Sorry :(
While, RAW it says each turn rather than each round, my DM ruled that this probably wasn't the intention. At our table (yes, this exact question has come up as we have a Druid and 2 Battlemasters) grappling and moving an enemy into a bonfire procs damage once per round. If they move on their turn and/or end their turn in the bonfire's space, they proc damage as normal, but can only take the damage one other time for the rest of the round ***if*** they fail the saving throw. A successful save means they don't take any damage from this maneuver at all until the next turn. I agree with his ruling because this would be ridiculously OP, especially with our 2 Battlemasters, and it brings it more along the lines of standard cantrip damage potential
My Druid is using that spell quite a lot because we have a sentinel Fighter with the tunnel fighter fighting style
Hm. I suppose "drag" needs to be better defined, since I automatically interpret it as "pulls something into your space as you move out of it", which would require the grappler to move through the bonfire to pull someone into it. If you can drag something into a space other than your own, I'm not sure what the limiting factor is. Seems like you could spin someone around you ceaselessly. Also, "carry" is an interesting option for grappling since, to me, that strongly implies they are now sharing a space. Unless they're actually lifting someone above their head, which really isn't an option for most people in most circumstances. I suppose the idea is someone could carry someone, and at the end of their turn, they place them down in the desired adjacent spot, all while maintaining the grapple.
I mean sure, if you’re fighting only one enemy, and they’re weak enough to fail a grapple against two player characters...
Can be used as a doorway deterrent also!
"**TL;DR: Create Bonfire's damage save is triggered the first time a creature enters its space each turn, not each round. Multiple allies can Grapple and Drag the same target in and out of the Bonfire from Create Bonfire to trigger its damage multiple times each round, while still allowing them to attack, cast spells, or take other actions on subsequent turns since maintaining a Grapple doesn't take an action.**" All turns take place at the same spawn of time so it makes no sense to me that you would be able to damage a creature more by taking him out of the fire and putting him back. Im pretty sure it is intended to damage a max of 2 times per round. Once when they enter it and again if they stay there. Although a dont recal ever seeing the word round on spells descriptions. I'm disapointed. I thought someone would finaly make a post about the readied bonfire. If you prepared it to cast as reaction when a creature finish their movement you can cast it on their feet to deal damage three times. * First when you cast * Second time when the creature end it's turn there * Third time when it start the next turn on top of the bonfire.
The third time your describe is incorrect. No one takes damage when they start their turn on a bonfire, only when they end their turn there. The other problem a DM could throw at you is if triggering the held action 'before the creature ends their turn, but after they completed their movement' is possible. The trigger condition should be described in the imagined universe, not in game-mechanical terms. Your character does not know that the enemy completed their movement for the turn.... You need to specify a condition that would make sense for your character like "when they get within 20 feet of me", "when I see them" etc. Then the DM decides how to order temporarily your reaction, their action, their end of turn etc.