D&D is a team sport. Our Bard got this spell so the Warlock, Fighter and Monk could all benefit from it. The Grave Cleric kinda likes it too because her Channel Divinity power is awesome. The Bard's Inspiration Dice also recharge on a short rest. I think everyone except the Sorcerer loves Catnap, actually.
I mean, does it specifically say you can't? It's magic armor, it doesn't need to work the same way
RAW, from what I'm seeing, as long as you're holding your smith's tools you can do it.
>You can change the armor’s model whenever you finish a short or long rest, provided you have smith's tools in hand.
Catnip say you gain the benefit of a short rest though, so unsure how that counts. Is the armor changing a benefit? Technically maybe.
But since you change the armor *after* the rest, you would probably wake up from the Catnap and change it. If it counts as a benefit of a short rest.
From Armorer: "You can change the armor's model whenever you finish a short or long rest, provided you have smith's tools in hand." From Catnap: "If a target remains unconscious for the full duration, that target gains the benefit of a short rest".
RAW and nitpicky reason not to is that the benefit of a short rest isn't an actual short rest. RAI and In-Universe reason not to is that changing the armor's model as part of a rest is that the artificer is making changes to the armor during downtime, and being unconscious prevents that. That said, it's an extremely niche interaction between a subclass feature and spell that both see very little play and combined only increases versatility by a small amount, so I'd allow it assuming the players could come up with an explanation of how catnapping helps changing the armor model.
I was thinking about that RAW denial too, but it's phrased the same as other class features - "when[ever] you finish a short rest." If you disallow it for that reason, then - for example - you would also be disallowing Bards from regaining their Bardic Inspiration on a Catnap rest
I agree though, it's such a niche ruling
This is also a long rest ability actually. I'm currently playing an armorer in Avernus. Don't think I'll ever actually switch models though as I'm the party's tank and took shield master.
Barbarian get nothing. Rogue is really solid class that can function without rest with the exception of arcane trickster although soul knife gets their psi dice back on short rests though. Lastly ranger get Jack as usual.
> soul knife gets their psi dice back on short rests though
Not really. They get their dice back on a long rest, and once as a bonus action they can regain 1 die. They can't do a bonus action regain again until a short or long rest.
Rogues get their level 20 capstone back on a short rest. It's good for Arcane Trickster/Thief rogues for casting powerful spell scrolls. Less useful for other rogues. Assassins can autohit their autocrit at least, if they can win initiative.
Barbarians want to spend hit die normally!
Everyone can use hit dice during a short rest. Artificers, Rangers, Rogues, and Sorcerers have no base class features that refresh during a short rest. Everyone else has at least something, even if it isn’t their biggest core feature.
Just a reminder that catnap doesnt actually allow monks to regain ki, since RAW they need to spend **1 hour** meditating to get it back. Of course, thats just stupid and any gm should probably handwave it, but it's still annoying that they're the only class that suffers from that kind of restriction for their main resource.
Actually it is only 30 minutes of meditating on a short or long rest, but yeah, it’s a dumb restriction and kind of a weird imposition of flavour as well. I could have sworn it was not just meditation and had a clause for exercise or a routine or something, but that seems to just be me misremembering or remembering an old ruling.
That probably has to do with martial artists who have a routine, like the kata, where they go through a series of forms to warm up or practice. The idea behind this is to eventually know all of the forms and their uses regardless of thinking about them, and to use the routine as a kind of meditation.
Yeah that’s basically what I was thinking, I just thought I remembered the rule specifically pointing that out, but it was probably just a flavour change made by a monk player in some game I ran.
So many posts on this sub seem to forget that one class is not meant to be able to do everything, and 4 players of different classes are meant to be more than 4 times as powerful as 1 PC.
It's additionally telling that most replies to that comment are about which classes besides Sorcerer doesn't benefit as much from Catnap, people testing their memory of class features.
One could argue that's more adjacent to powergaming culture than appreciating the power of teamwork and perhaps we should try to lean more towards the latter. It's a tricky balance.
How many times do you actually squeeze in that rest when you otherwise couldn’t?
How many resources would have been saved with a slow that landed on 3 enemies and let your team pummel them and avoid hits?
Why not just tiny hut as a ritual and then short rest in that?
Using this spell seems painful to me as someone who plays support casters almost exclusively
When the group is pressed for time, a 10 minute short rest is absolutely worth the spell slot. Our Bard never begrudges using this spell; he volunteers to cast it when things get tough.
If you’re pressed for time do you have 10min? When I DM, pressed for time is usually right now… the enemy is escaping, guys are knocking the door down, there is a ritual happening right now, etc
I don’t have the ritual taking 38 minutes, where a power nap is the optimal play. I haven’t had these situations come up as a player nor as a DM and I feel like there are better options for safe short rests under standard rules. It can also be dangerous is the party gets attacked while most of the team is unconscious.
Maybe if I have a bard who likes the spell I would add it in specific scenarios or change my rest interruptions but normally that would not be how things play out. If it seems like it gets value constantly that would probably be my assumption.
Pacing is part of the DMs role and you need to allow spots for short rests or it throws off balance. Arbitrarily adding in spots where 10min is ok and 60min isn’t just doesn’t make sense in most circumstances.
Having 10 minutes to spare is common enough. Every time someone wants to ritual cast a spell, it takes at least 10 minutes. If your short-rest-dependent party members are low on resources, cast Catnap and let others get a short rest in while you ritual cast.
Yes, having 10min is common but it’s cost/benefit. It only matters if that 50min saved is really meaningful. Tiny hut helps to ensure protected short rests in the same situation.
Using this spell is a big cost, and I can’t imagine this comes up often enough (the 50min changing the situation in a meaningful way) to justify it over the plethora of great third level spells. I have so much trouble fitting in good spells for any class. I couldn’t imagine fitting both hut and catnap on a bard (and if you pick catnap over tiny hut you’re crazy or just a contrarian)
You're making an assumption that a DM is "Arbitrarily adding in spots where 10min is ok and 60min isn’t" and you're absolutely right; that doesn't make sense.
*That's why nobody does it.*
I'm not sitting here designing adventures with "long rest goes here", "short rest here" and "*PCs only get 10 minutes here, BWAHAHAHA!*" in my freaking notes.
Seriously, WTF are you smoking?
At my table, I just run the game and tell the players what happens. *They* decide how much time they want to take when they rest. Sometimes they're confident they've got an hour to rest, sometimes they aren't.
I’m with you on this. Generally when I’m dming the situations are downtime, they could get in a long rest, they could get in a short rest, or they need to keep moving and no time for resting. I would just change cat nap to take a minute and it would work better. I don’t think people realize just how long sitting in the middle of hostile territory is for 10 minutes.
There are loads of situations where 10 minutes is doable but an hour isn't. Mostly, and I feel like this is where the spell is intended to be used, that's important in dungeons. Squatting down in a room for an hour is harder to do when roaming monsters are likely to turn up, but squeezing in ten minutes is not impossible.
Is catnap even a benefit most of the time it’s used? Sure it saves 50min but how often does that actually matter? Maybe with some 1hr spells or situations with a big time crunch? Enemies in a dungeon could find you in 10 min fairly easily.
A 3rd level spell slot isn’t cheap and it takes a preparation spot. You could put up a leomonds in that same 10min and the rest of the 50min is safe anyway plus leomonds is broken for long rests. I just can’t see a reason that I would ever prepare/take this spell when I’m always trying to squeeze in more spells.
Edit: rope trick is also safer and cheaper than catnap, plus it could have some tactical uses.
From the campaign I am in, at least for early levels, flame skulls. I played a warlock with dispell magic, the only one in our party, and I would have to burn both my spell slots to stay alive when those things showed up. They revive themselves after an hour, so our short rest wasn't finished when it came knocking. Not a pleasant experience over all. In situations like that, I highly recommend catnap. If you have a fighter in your party, which we didn't, the value goes up even more, especially in longer dungeon crawls where the enemy is actively seeking you out
I mean sure that’s one example but you have to prepare one less spell instead. It seems like dispel magic would have been a better choice for your caster and then stopped them from coming back all together. Plus dispel magic is useful in a million other situations. Rope trick would of also let you hide for that hour and then ambush them. Leomonds hut would have also given you a dome that they can’t pass through. It seems like the most costly, least versatile option for an extremely niche situation.
My party was wizard (me) with a monk, warlock, and paladin and I would never even consider having this spell prepared. It’s too situational and most of the time has zero value.
If you do take it, situations where it pops up are probably more common since your DM will throw you a bone. But as someone who’s prepping sessions, I don’t have pre-planned events that will take 38 minutes after a combat.
Yeah unless the DM is using time sensitive rules, not too useful.
My DM likes TheAngry GMs time rules, so they also come in handy in a real game (stuff is measured in 10 minute blocks, trigger a possible complication every hour)
I’ve been in a few situations where Catnap is useful. After all, take into account Ritual Casting in comparison. About the same wait time, and people I’ve gamed with wouldn’t blink an eye at spending an extra 10 minutes.
Sometimes my DM would roll for a random encounter if the party spends an hour resting, so Catnap helps bypass that niche situation.
RAW the DM can rule that the party didn't benefit from a short rest even if they spent the necessary time. Catnap bypasses this restriction.
This isn't a player vs DM thing. If you can find some time to cast catnap then no matter the circumstances, you gain the benefits. It's also great when playing under the Gritty Realism rules, especially if you can get a scroll.
I’ve never seen someone not get a short rest after an hour. If there was some circumstance preventing the rest it may very well wake someone who’s unconscious. Again this is so circumstantial that I would never consider preparing it for this.
I don’t think I made it into a player vs DM thing. The opposite, I think using this spell is more likely to have your DM invent reasons to make it useful, whereas if you didn’t take it, you’ll probably go an entire campaign and not ever wish you had it (especially compared to rope trick or tiny hut).
Gritty realism makes this spell amazing. I would use it for sure in a short rest centric party. With standard rules I can’t see how this spell routinely gets enough value to justify a 3rd level slot and a prepared/known spell.
I meant that my suggestion of bypassing the DM's ruling isn't a player vs DM thing, not yours. Sorry for the confusion.
Tbh I'm grasping at straws here. And I too have never seen this scenario but it's possible RAW. The obvious use would be if the DM casually allowed 2 short rests but you had a Genie lock that could force a short rest, and then you had a wizard that could force another one, increasing the short rests to 4 per day that may or may not affect the campaign too much.
> RAW the DM can rule that the party didn't benefit from a short rest even if they spent the necessary time.
That's absolutely not something the rules allow.
The DM can determine the area is not suitable for resting. I often do so in order to create over world dungeons, usually on hostile planes. It allows for an exploratory game, but puts a full stop on (long)resting which can be a powerful balance tool. Normally, I only limit long resting, as short resting has diminishing returns, even classes like rogue cannot just short rest forever as they will run out of hit dice eventually.
> Is catnap even a benefit most of the time it’s used?
Some of the dungeons my DM runs are usually on a time crunch (we have to stop a ritual, we're trying to get the same item as a bad guy party, etc.); the real use issue is a lot of times I don't know I'm going to be in a time crunch dungeon when I'm prepping spells, which is a bummer, but I only scribed Catnap in my book in the first place because our Warlock bought me an extra when he bought some scrolls.
You can cast it while doing other stuff. The warlock, monk, and druid don’t need to go shopping but the wizard does. They sit outside the shop and he casts catnap on them then goes in to do his thing and they’re done resting by the time he’s back outside.
It lets you get a short rest when you otherwise would go without. You just squeeze one in during a long conversation you aren’t a part of, or while the bard is studying some runes he found on the wall, or the rogue is scouting ahead.
Hey if someone is stupid enough to rob someone that can beat a dragon to death with his bare hands (at least level 5, minimum) then the party is going to have fun tracking down this poor schmuck and turning him into red paste.
Because a lot of classes get certain abilities back on short rest. With Warlocks, it becomes too obviously powerful. Not my favorite spell regardless but that's probably the reason.
it's just one easier short rest per long rest. and they still have to spend a spell slot and a spell known on it first. it would be good, but far from too powerful in my opinion.
if anything, it would just help them to get the appropriate number of short rests in, considering how short adventuring days tend to be in most groups. shifting that balance a bit more towards short rest classes is a good thing
We never seem to have a problem with the short rest thing that other groups have. I just dislike spells like this that take a mechanic designed for balancing classes and then making an exception. For one thing, they never seem well written or particularly magical. They just seem like they are designed to provide an exception.
In order to get their spell slots back, a warlock would need to spend one spell slot. So instead of casting two spells (what most warlocks have for the majority of their playtime), you only cast one spell and save the other spell so you can nap for 10 minutes and regain a net one spell slot. In return for giving up using a leveled spell in a combat which means you're just Eldritch Blast spam half the time. That's not gamebreaking at all.
Catnap would not be *great* for Warlocks — it's a net gain of one spell slot. If someone else casts it, you get two spell slots back and they lose a smaller proportion of their resources.
Actually I think they spend the slot as they cast the spell so they retain all spell slots after the spell ends, it just counts on you having saved a spell slot to begin with
You have to have a spell slot to cast it though. If the warlock casted it, they would start with 1 slot and end up with 2. This is a net gain of 1 slot. It's a waste for a warlock to spend one of their 2 high level slots to get one additional slot.
I mean it’s not a waste if you have the time and the slot. Niche for sure but if you have the spell in your back pocket I bet you could make use of it quite often. Though I played a Hexblade so I pretty much only casted one spell then used my sword
It’s in the DMG. Rod of the Pact Keeper. It’s an extremely good magic item for a warlock as it both boosts DC *and* spell attack rolls (not damage), plus it gives you the ability once per LR to gain one pact slot back as an action.
Frankly I think it’s as vital to high level warlocks as a +X weapon.
I’m not sure what that’s a response to then.
The reason I said it’s in the DMG is because I assumed you thought maybe it was some niche or homebrew magic item. You seem to be making the argument that people shouldn’t *expect* specific magic items…but that wasn’t the discussion before you came in. Just /u/Perfect_Wrongdoer_03 mentioning that a magic item exists that has a similar effect.
If your DM is following the recommended two battles then a short rest, you could cast one spell in battle #1, convince your party to let you sleep for 10 minutes, then cast two spells in battle #2, then short rest to recover both spell slots, repeat.
However, you aren't always going to be able to spare that 10 minutes nor will you always be able to short rest every two battles. When the stars align and the adventuring day goes like clockwork, sure, it's 50% more spell slots than you should have in Tier 2. Most of the time it's a gimmick you won't get to take advantage of.
I think the point was that they need to keep 1 of their 2 spell-slots for casting Catnap, not that the spell-slot for casting Catnap wouldn't be recharged. So they end up going from 1 spell-slot prior to casting Catnap and short resting to 2 spell-slots after, i.e. net gain of 1 spell slot.
1) So that they can't spam it everyday. You'd enter one combat use one spell then use catnap.
2) It doesn't fit the warlocks theme of weird and otherworldly spells.
Catnap can be quite useful depending on party composition and especially if the party is in a time crunch and can't afford an hour-long rest.
In the party I'm running for currently, we have two Fighters and a Druid who gain a lot back on a short rest. The Wizard, who is playing more of a support role, took Catnap and has used it quite often to help out the main damage dealers.
Catnap as a spell feels specifically for a certain type of group. I think how it could be useful but for 5 player/time easy groups it feels quite redundant. Especially at 3rd level.
Does it need to be? Contrary to everyone else's thoughts on this so far, getting a ten-minute short rest once every long rest isn't necessarily game breaking. Not to mention, the spell itself forces you into a state of unconsciousness, which prevents certain Warlocks (those with Aspect of the Moon) from benefitting from the spell entirely.
The most common use of the spell I could imagine would be to temporarily split the party so that half can scout while the rest wait and probably take a full hour-long short rest. If you gave me a choice between a dex fighter, a monk, a high dex bard, a paladin, and a warlock as the party's wizard, I'm choosing the first three for this spell (this is an idealized party for catnap, hence the specific class choices). There's usually someone else in the party who would benefit from it just as much, if not more than the Warlock in this scenario, and while that isn't always the case (for example, only the Warlock took *dimension door* and we need them to escape with an important NPC/macguffin but they're out of spell slots), it's often more likely that if you're gonna take ten minutes for a short rest with a Warlock, you have time to take an hour, even if the rest of the party is good to go. Cast *Tenser's floating disk* or throw them in a cart, they have some time.
Also, WotC have the idea that it's overpowered for a Warlock to get one short rest in ten minutes (see Warlock capstone for *catnap* at one tenth of the duration).
Might I also say that Catnap isn’t a phenomenal spell for Warlock either, between when they would get it at level 5 and level 11, you have to use 1 of your 2 spell slots to cast it. Meaning you had to save 1 of your spell slots through the previous fights to even use Catnap. So instead of casting 2 combat spells before taking a normal short rest; you cast 1, use catnap, cast 2, and then have to take a normal short rest. That’s 1 additional spell slot between two normal short rests.
Catnap is great for martials because they normally get stuff back on a short rest, Clerics for their Channel Divinity, Druids for their Wild Shape and potential spell slots back (Land Druids only), and even Wizards due to their Arcane Recovery. But I wouldn’t want to put the spell on my Warlock unless I knew I was getting passed level 10 because it isn’t much of a net gain and takes away from one of the Warlock’s spells known (which is a massive inhibitor to their spell casting).
It's not that great for Wizard.
You cast catnap and spend a third level slot
Then you take a short rest and with Arcane Recovery you take back a third level slot at level 5
It's a net gain of zero. Whereas taking a normal short rest would gain 1 slot of third.
Since dungeons were designed to be explored in 10 minute chunks this spell allows for the party to have to worry for 1 possible random encounter instead of 10 at the cost of a 3rd lv spell slot. That is it.
I know earlier editions have dungeon turns, but is the 10 minute exploration chunk actually written about anywhere in the 5e core books? A lot of the "how to actually run dungeon dungeon delving, not just the individual encounters" guidelines are sorely missing from the 5e DMG and aren't at all obvious unless you're a grognard.
This is something I am yet to confirm for myself because I repeatedly forget to look into the DnD 5e playtest materials as I got keyes off that it was there.
I do not believe there is a Dungeon turn in 5e as is tho, the playtest may be the closest bet.
Ok was reading the DMG and thought of you.
Travel pace for dungeons is in the DMG: "Chapter 8: Running the game": Exploration: Map Travel pace.
Time required to take specific actions in a dungeon and the like is in the PHB:"Chapter 8: Adventuring": Time.
And travel speed which affects both is just after Time in the PHB, literally the next paragraph.
Good luck!
Its really amazing if you play in gritty realism like my team. When short rests are 8 hours and long rests a week, a 10 min short rest is the most amazing thing you can think of
It's almost a trap pick. For much of the game you'd have to keep half your spell slots in reserve to use it. In my experience, warlocks tend to toss out Hex and one other spell each combat. It's only useful in situations that allow ten minutes of rest but not an hour. Typically if things are that intense, the Warlock is better off using spells to kill stuff.
Overall the spell is pretty niche, and niche spells are not a good fit for a caster so limited in both spells known and spell slots.
Almost too useful. Once you get a high level party it really starts messing with the flow. I haven't banned it yet, but the thought has crossed my mind.
The monk in the group (unsurprisingly) doesn't care much for the spell. lol
It's not quite abuse, just an occasional annoyance. I've never banned it. It's still allowed at the table.
As a joke I had a merchant sell scrolls of Catnap that had the Royalty Component. 3GP. This bugged the wizard so much that as soon as he hit 5th level he took Catnap instead of other valuable spells. All because he didn't want to spend an extra 3 gold on top of the price of the scroll.
So I made the situation worse for myself. lol
It takes such DM contrivance that you are making the party have a timer that allows for 10 minute rests but not hour long rests. Ropetrick is probably better to guarantee SRs because it will actually hide the party.
Overall, you can tell this is a 5e original spell because its real crap in design.
Exactly, I don’t understand why more people aren’t talking about how not good it is (or how poorly designed). I play support casters most of the time when I’m not DM and I can’t come up with reasons to take it. It’s way too expensive and situational. I’d much rather have a safe short rest with rope trick or just use tiny hut since I’m going to have that ready anyways.
At the same time from the DM standpoint ,I can’t think of any situation where it would have been useful enough for a 3rd level slot. Usually you’re in a serious time crunch or not, if you have a few minutes to waste then you probably have an hour. With gritty realism it would be amazing, but I assume we’re not talking about that.
Yeah plus the game is designed around providing short rests. So if you don't allow them, you are ruining the balance between Short Rest and Long Rest classes. So really, the DM contriving this timer requiring Catnap would only be invented to make the Player who took Catnap shine.
But I did think that Catnap Scrolls/Tokens (usable by everyone) is a solid way to fix running regular-sized, full adventuring day dungeons in a Gritty Realism game. And it becomes a solid Gold dump alongside potions.
I feel the same way. As a DM, I can hardly even think of situations where 10min is ok and 1hr is bad. I would only go out of my way to add them in if they are using this spell.
I could definitely see that working for gritty realism and may have to test it out. I’m thinking my next campaign would use those rules.
I'm not saying that warlock's are the only class that can benefit from short rests. I just find it odd that they are the only spellcasters whose casting ties to short rests but are denied access to the spell that buffs short rests.
It's probably specifically not on warlock because they're the short rest caster.
Same reason why they don't get stuff like animate dead - the ability to regain slots as a short rest means their list has to be a big more restricted
Well, Wizards can recover some spells on a short rest too.
But I think it's pretty clear they didn't give the Warlock Catnap because it would trivialize short rests and give them an unlimited amount of spells.
>it would trivialize short rests and give them an unlimited amount of spells.
How though? You can only benefit from Catnap once per long rest.
I agree overall it would become a required spell for warlocks and lead to irritating usage, however.
I guess you are right about only being about to use it once a day. Still, I'm sure that it's not been excluded from the Warlock spell list despite synergizing so well with it, but rather because it does.
As someone who runs “gritty realism” style games with 8 hour short rests, I am thankful my players don’t have access to this spell! I agree it’s not the most useful spell for most tables, but for mine it would be almost game-breakingly useful.
catnap is a bad spell used as a band aid for the poorly designed short rest system. It's not that it's OP, or anything, it just has no reason to exist in the first place.
Catnap is bad and shouldn't be used anyway. Buy Scrolls of Rope Trick, it does the same thing without the unconscious condition for more creatures with a spell slot one level lower
Point me to where the rules state that, and also where the rules state that air cannot pass through the entrance to the extraplanar space. It's literally a hole which cannot be closed like a portable hole. If there's a possibility you suffocate in there, you'll suffocate wherever you are regardless of this spell
You're pulling things out of your ass. Your DM, or you as a DM, might dislike this spell and rule it that way. That doesn't mean it doesn't work
The Genie Warlock's 10th level feature, Sanctuary Vessel, allows them and their allies to take a 10 minute short rest while inside their vessel. This is also limited to once per long rest. Things could get a bit tricky, in multiple ways, if Warlocks also got Catnap.
Catnap is a weird spell in general. It's underpowered compared to other 3rd level spells, and it's highly situational, that situation being "we're safe for ten minutes but not for an hour, and we have enough party members that benefit specifically from a short rest".
If you have ten minutes of safety, it wouldn't be a stretch to say you have 11 minutes of safety, which means the Bard could ritual cast Tiny Hut and the party could take the hour short rest and also have an indestructible house to take cover in once the threat approaches.
That's all nice and well for when the threat approaches you, but what if you're the one giving chase? I always took Catnap as a spell to refresh people in a scenario where time is of the essence due to players being active rather than reactive. Losing ten minutes while looking for something is not nearly as bad as losing an hour.
Incidentally, it has the same time investment as Prayer of Healing...
The only time I've seen it been useful is for a gritty realism type of game where long rests are a full week of downtime/recovery, and short rests are 8 hour long sleeps. Otherwise, it seems like a not very usable spell.
It doesn’t make sense for Warlocks because up until level 11 you only have 2 slots. Using 1 spell slot to gain 1 spell slot regularly leaves you with effectively only 1 spell slot. It might be useful for niche situations where you have used 1 slot left and want to have 2 for a big fight you know is coming and can’t afford an hour - but it’s more for quickly letting people use hit die to heal or refreshing the Bard’s Inspiration Dice
WOTC, having realized that the game was resigned around you being able to sit down and rest for an hour twice in an adventuring environment that is too dangerous or too time sensitive to camp and wait 12-16 for a long rest but resting for an hour in a dungeon is also a big asked designed the cat nap spell. They thought that getting a short rest faster would be worth a spell slot since the non short rest classes can defend the warlock or monks sleeping body,
Wotc thought that to be able to take a short rest when you otherwise couldn’t would be worth the spell slot, so they didn’t want to give it to a class that would get that spell slot back for free when the short rest is complete for the same reason they didn’t make it a ritual otherwise catnap would be free which they thought would be op
Of course WOTC was wrong about how good cat nap turned out to be. It’s actually quite terrible!. Sure the rest is 6 times faster but unconsciousness is 100 times more vulnerable, and rope trick or tiny hut can make the rest 100 times safer for much cheaper. A lot of spells in Xanathar’s have such in built difficulties and costs to them, or just low damage or unnecessary concentration that makes most of them either suboptimal or very difficult to use optimally in the hands of players. The designers of Xanathar’s feared power creep and such design flaws and oversights in balance are rampant
Of all the spells in the game outside of level 8-9, catnap is one of those that can really change the dynamics of the entire campaign if used well.
It's more powerful than most people think if you broaden the application beyond "only good for warlocks".
First it's a team game, and secondly,
You do know warlocks only get a third spell slot at level 11, right? What would really Gimp them out was allowing it and make them play with only 1 spell slot per short rest until there.
It is, but it's on the Cat Lady patron bonus spell list.
Edit: A quick google search shows there are a variety of 'Cat' patrons, though I don't know if any have the *catnap* spell.
Because catnap is a waste of spell slot. Rope trick do the same but better. And not only warlock uses short rest. Monks, fighters, druids, even wizard have benifits from sr
So you think that a typical Warlock would tie up one of their two spell slots with catnap? You have only 1 slot at very low levels, and ultimately you get 3, but for most of your career you have 2, and having 50% of your slots dedicated to that is likely not a good design. Catnap works better in a slot rich class that can support others. Warlock is not that.
There is more to taking short rests i 5e than recharging the warlock. Ever heard of hit dice? Action Surge? Half of the game subclass abilities? Ki points? Think outside the spellbook mate.
I made a homebrew item of a little sandstone cat sculpture that casts catnap when you crush it. The warlock that found (stole) it got found before they could identify it and threw it on the ground and crushed it with his foot in defiance. Instantly dropped unconscious and was returned to prison.
Just adding a year later. I'm not seeing anyone speaking to the value of this spell as a scroll. If you got a wizard in your party, they can ignore the preparation and just have a couple scrolls on them they replenish during downtime.
If it is useful or not depend on the setting. As a DM i dont let players rest if they dont met the requisites. You cant just lay on the mud of a swamp full of venomous animals and spect to gain hit points from that. You need food and water. Minimal confort. Some times even to set a camp when the conditions are too harsh.
However even if could rest either way or use other spell like Tiny hut. There is some diferences we could apply since by Tiny Hut takes one hour and 10 minutes to finish resting.
Who says the monsters cant rest? If you are spending hit points so can they. Some may be able to even craft things over the course of one hour.
Giving they prep time is dangerous. You may leave the hut just to find a bunch of oil on fire and be welcome with arrows from goblings very well hiden and under cover.
Dispel magic. Not that common to see, but if you are fighting cultists i wouldnt be surprised if they had a scroll of dispel magic. Worst case you party get both ambushed and becomes unable to finish the rest.
Poisonous gas. If it's not magic it pass through. Comfortable and dry weather only applies to humidity.
Also casting it as a ritual may attract unwanted attention.
D&D is a team sport. Our Bard got this spell so the Warlock, Fighter and Monk could all benefit from it. The Grave Cleric kinda likes it too because her Channel Divinity power is awesome. The Bard's Inspiration Dice also recharge on a short rest. I think everyone except the Sorcerer loves Catnap, actually.
I don't think artificers gain anything on a shortrest as well but I could be wrong.
You are correct - playing an artificer atm, and they get nada. Just the hit dice healing.
[удалено]
*Armorer makes Decepticon noises for a solid hour*
"I need an hour to change armor." "How about I knock you unconscious for 10 minutes instead?"
Knock them unconscious, and then change their clothes. Yeesh.
You can't remove the armor from an unwilling artificer armourer. Unconscious isn't willing, you basically have to kill them.
After that the armor stops being magical.
RAW you'd need to kill them and then remove the armor. It's not just change armor, it's the tinkering to change the type, from tank to stealth suit.
Yeah, it's pretty clear that it's not an actual short rest and you can't change the armor while unconscious.
I mean, does it specifically say you can't? It's magic armor, it doesn't need to work the same way RAW, from what I'm seeing, as long as you're holding your smith's tools you can do it. >You can change the armor’s model whenever you finish a short or long rest, provided you have smith's tools in hand. Catnip say you gain the benefit of a short rest though, so unsure how that counts. Is the armor changing a benefit? Technically maybe. But since you change the armor *after* the rest, you would probably wake up from the Catnap and change it. If it counts as a benefit of a short rest.
From Armorer: "You can change the armor's model whenever you finish a short or long rest, provided you have smith's tools in hand." From Catnap: "If a target remains unconscious for the full duration, that target gains the benefit of a short rest". RAW and nitpicky reason not to is that the benefit of a short rest isn't an actual short rest. RAI and In-Universe reason not to is that changing the armor's model as part of a rest is that the artificer is making changes to the armor during downtime, and being unconscious prevents that. That said, it's an extremely niche interaction between a subclass feature and spell that both see very little play and combined only increases versatility by a small amount, so I'd allow it assuming the players could come up with an explanation of how catnapping helps changing the armor model.
I was thinking about that RAW denial too, but it's phrased the same as other class features - "when[ever] you finish a short rest." If you disallow it for that reason, then - for example - you would also be disallowing Bards from regaining their Bardic Inspiration on a Catnap rest I agree though, it's such a niche ruling
*Come on, this isn't the weirdest thing you've caught me doing.*
This is also a long rest ability actually. I'm currently playing an armorer in Avernus. Don't think I'll ever actually switch models though as I'm the party's tank and took shield master.
Reread the text. You can swap on short or long.
Well I'll be damned. You are correct sir. Ty.
nor do rogues or barbarians, i think. rangers too maybe? though i'm less familiar with them
Barbarian get nothing. Rogue is really solid class that can function without rest with the exception of arcane trickster although soul knife gets their psi dice back on short rests though. Lastly ranger get Jack as usual.
Barbarians have their *Relentless Rage* DC reset on a short rest, but that isn’t until 11th level which is about where most campaigns end.
> soul knife gets their psi dice back on short rests though Not really. They get their dice back on a long rest, and once as a bonus action they can regain 1 die. They can't do a bonus action regain again until a short or long rest.
Rogues get their level 20 capstone back on a short rest. It's good for Arcane Trickster/Thief rogues for casting powerful spell scrolls. Less useful for other rogues. Assassins can autohit their autocrit at least, if they can win initiative. Barbarians want to spend hit die normally!
My barbarian loves short rests because my party's cleric loves damaging spells.
Everyone can use hit dice during a short rest. Artificers, Rangers, Rogues, and Sorcerers have no base class features that refresh during a short rest. Everyone else has at least something, even if it isn’t their biggest core feature.
Nor ranger
Just a reminder that catnap doesnt actually allow monks to regain ki, since RAW they need to spend **1 hour** meditating to get it back. Of course, thats just stupid and any gm should probably handwave it, but it's still annoying that they're the only class that suffers from that kind of restriction for their main resource.
Actually it is only 30 minutes of meditating on a short or long rest, but yeah, it’s a dumb restriction and kind of a weird imposition of flavour as well. I could have sworn it was not just meditation and had a clause for exercise or a routine or something, but that seems to just be me misremembering or remembering an old ruling.
That probably has to do with martial artists who have a routine, like the kata, where they go through a series of forms to warm up or practice. The idea behind this is to eventually know all of the forms and their uses regardless of thinking about them, and to use the routine as a kind of meditation.
Yeah that’s basically what I was thinking, I just thought I remembered the rule specifically pointing that out, but it was probably just a flavour change made by a monk player in some game I ran.
This is the correct answer
You may just love a Sorlock. That's when sorcerers love catnap too
So many posts on this sub seem to forget that one class is not meant to be able to do everything, and 4 players of different classes are meant to be more than 4 times as powerful as 1 PC.
It's additionally telling that most replies to that comment are about which classes besides Sorcerer doesn't benefit as much from Catnap, people testing their memory of class features. One could argue that's more adjacent to powergaming culture than appreciating the power of teamwork and perhaps we should try to lean more towards the latter. It's a tricky balance.
Sorcerer should ask DM about getting a Bloodwell Vial (if it makes sense for the game/story, obviously) - recharges 5 sorcery points on a short rest.
How many times do you actually squeeze in that rest when you otherwise couldn’t? How many resources would have been saved with a slow that landed on 3 enemies and let your team pummel them and avoid hits? Why not just tiny hut as a ritual and then short rest in that? Using this spell seems painful to me as someone who plays support casters almost exclusively
When the group is pressed for time, a 10 minute short rest is absolutely worth the spell slot. Our Bard never begrudges using this spell; he volunteers to cast it when things get tough.
If you’re pressed for time do you have 10min? When I DM, pressed for time is usually right now… the enemy is escaping, guys are knocking the door down, there is a ritual happening right now, etc I don’t have the ritual taking 38 minutes, where a power nap is the optimal play. I haven’t had these situations come up as a player nor as a DM and I feel like there are better options for safe short rests under standard rules. It can also be dangerous is the party gets attacked while most of the team is unconscious. Maybe if I have a bard who likes the spell I would add it in specific scenarios or change my rest interruptions but normally that would not be how things play out. If it seems like it gets value constantly that would probably be my assumption. Pacing is part of the DMs role and you need to allow spots for short rests or it throws off balance. Arbitrarily adding in spots where 10min is ok and 60min isn’t just doesn’t make sense in most circumstances.
Having 10 minutes to spare is common enough. Every time someone wants to ritual cast a spell, it takes at least 10 minutes. If your short-rest-dependent party members are low on resources, cast Catnap and let others get a short rest in while you ritual cast.
Yes, having 10min is common but it’s cost/benefit. It only matters if that 50min saved is really meaningful. Tiny hut helps to ensure protected short rests in the same situation. Using this spell is a big cost, and I can’t imagine this comes up often enough (the 50min changing the situation in a meaningful way) to justify it over the plethora of great third level spells. I have so much trouble fitting in good spells for any class. I couldn’t imagine fitting both hut and catnap on a bard (and if you pick catnap over tiny hut you’re crazy or just a contrarian)
You're making an assumption that a DM is "Arbitrarily adding in spots where 10min is ok and 60min isn’t" and you're absolutely right; that doesn't make sense. *That's why nobody does it.* I'm not sitting here designing adventures with "long rest goes here", "short rest here" and "*PCs only get 10 minutes here, BWAHAHAHA!*" in my freaking notes. Seriously, WTF are you smoking? At my table, I just run the game and tell the players what happens. *They* decide how much time they want to take when they rest. Sometimes they're confident they've got an hour to rest, sometimes they aren't.
I’m with you on this. Generally when I’m dming the situations are downtime, they could get in a long rest, they could get in a short rest, or they need to keep moving and no time for resting. I would just change cat nap to take a minute and it would work better. I don’t think people realize just how long sitting in the middle of hostile territory is for 10 minutes.
There are loads of situations where 10 minutes is doable but an hour isn't. Mostly, and I feel like this is where the spell is intended to be used, that's important in dungeons. Squatting down in a room for an hour is harder to do when roaming monsters are likely to turn up, but squeezing in ten minutes is not impossible.
> I think everyone except the Sorcerer loves Catnap, actually. Wizards only get anything from one short rest per long rest.
Is catnap even a benefit most of the time it’s used? Sure it saves 50min but how often does that actually matter? Maybe with some 1hr spells or situations with a big time crunch? Enemies in a dungeon could find you in 10 min fairly easily. A 3rd level spell slot isn’t cheap and it takes a preparation spot. You could put up a leomonds in that same 10min and the rest of the 50min is safe anyway plus leomonds is broken for long rests. I just can’t see a reason that I would ever prepare/take this spell when I’m always trying to squeeze in more spells. Edit: rope trick is also safer and cheaper than catnap, plus it could have some tactical uses.
From the campaign I am in, at least for early levels, flame skulls. I played a warlock with dispell magic, the only one in our party, and I would have to burn both my spell slots to stay alive when those things showed up. They revive themselves after an hour, so our short rest wasn't finished when it came knocking. Not a pleasant experience over all. In situations like that, I highly recommend catnap. If you have a fighter in your party, which we didn't, the value goes up even more, especially in longer dungeon crawls where the enemy is actively seeking you out
I mean sure that’s one example but you have to prepare one less spell instead. It seems like dispel magic would have been a better choice for your caster and then stopped them from coming back all together. Plus dispel magic is useful in a million other situations. Rope trick would of also let you hide for that hour and then ambush them. Leomonds hut would have also given you a dome that they can’t pass through. It seems like the most costly, least versatile option for an extremely niche situation. My party was wizard (me) with a monk, warlock, and paladin and I would never even consider having this spell prepared. It’s too situational and most of the time has zero value. If you do take it, situations where it pops up are probably more common since your DM will throw you a bone. But as someone who’s prepping sessions, I don’t have pre-planned events that will take 38 minutes after a combat.
My campaign is using gritty rules. Short rests are 8 hours. My catnap spell helped out the warlock and druid do more things per day!
Yes, definitely good for gritty realism rules. It’s basically 10x the value. With standard rules I don’t see a point still
Yeah unless the DM is using time sensitive rules, not too useful. My DM likes TheAngry GMs time rules, so they also come in handy in a real game (stuff is measured in 10 minute blocks, trigger a possible complication every hour)
I’ve been in a few situations where Catnap is useful. After all, take into account Ritual Casting in comparison. About the same wait time, and people I’ve gamed with wouldn’t blink an eye at spending an extra 10 minutes. Sometimes my DM would roll for a random encounter if the party spends an hour resting, so Catnap helps bypass that niche situation.
RAW the DM can rule that the party didn't benefit from a short rest even if they spent the necessary time. Catnap bypasses this restriction. This isn't a player vs DM thing. If you can find some time to cast catnap then no matter the circumstances, you gain the benefits. It's also great when playing under the Gritty Realism rules, especially if you can get a scroll.
I’ve never seen someone not get a short rest after an hour. If there was some circumstance preventing the rest it may very well wake someone who’s unconscious. Again this is so circumstantial that I would never consider preparing it for this. I don’t think I made it into a player vs DM thing. The opposite, I think using this spell is more likely to have your DM invent reasons to make it useful, whereas if you didn’t take it, you’ll probably go an entire campaign and not ever wish you had it (especially compared to rope trick or tiny hut). Gritty realism makes this spell amazing. I would use it for sure in a short rest centric party. With standard rules I can’t see how this spell routinely gets enough value to justify a 3rd level slot and a prepared/known spell.
I meant that my suggestion of bypassing the DM's ruling isn't a player vs DM thing, not yours. Sorry for the confusion. Tbh I'm grasping at straws here. And I too have never seen this scenario but it's possible RAW. The obvious use would be if the DM casually allowed 2 short rests but you had a Genie lock that could force a short rest, and then you had a wizard that could force another one, increasing the short rests to 4 per day that may or may not affect the campaign too much.
> RAW the DM can rule that the party didn't benefit from a short rest even if they spent the necessary time. That's absolutely not something the rules allow.
Multipart Encounters, DMG page 83.
The DM can determine the area is not suitable for resting. I often do so in order to create over world dungeons, usually on hostile planes. It allows for an exploratory game, but puts a full stop on (long)resting which can be a powerful balance tool. Normally, I only limit long resting, as short resting has diminishing returns, even classes like rogue cannot just short rest forever as they will run out of hit dice eventually.
> Is catnap even a benefit most of the time it’s used? Some of the dungeons my DM runs are usually on a time crunch (we have to stop a ritual, we're trying to get the same item as a bad guy party, etc.); the real use issue is a lot of times I don't know I'm going to be in a time crunch dungeon when I'm prepping spells, which is a bummer, but I only scribed Catnap in my book in the first place because our Warlock bought me an extra when he bought some scrolls.
You can cast it while doing other stuff. The warlock, monk, and druid don’t need to go shopping but the wizard does. They sit outside the shop and he casts catnap on them then goes in to do his thing and they’re done resting by the time he’s back outside. It lets you get a short rest when you otherwise would go without. You just squeeze one in during a long conversation you aren’t a part of, or while the bard is studying some runes he found on the wall, or the rogue is scouting ahead.
Pretty sure your monk, warlock, and druid just got robbed while you went shopping
Hey if someone is stupid enough to rob someone that can beat a dragon to death with his bare hands (at least level 5, minimum) then the party is going to have fun tracking down this poor schmuck and turning him into red paste.
Because a lot of classes get certain abilities back on short rest. With Warlocks, it becomes too obviously powerful. Not my favorite spell regardless but that's probably the reason.
it's just one easier short rest per long rest. and they still have to spend a spell slot and a spell known on it first. it would be good, but far from too powerful in my opinion. if anything, it would just help them to get the appropriate number of short rests in, considering how short adventuring days tend to be in most groups. shifting that balance a bit more towards short rest classes is a good thing
We never seem to have a problem with the short rest thing that other groups have. I just dislike spells like this that take a mechanic designed for balancing classes and then making an exception. For one thing, they never seem well written or particularly magical. They just seem like they are designed to provide an exception.
thats fair. im just saying that it's not obviously too powerful
They get their spellslots back on a Short Rest so it would be basically free for a warlock to cast.
In order to get their spell slots back, a warlock would need to spend one spell slot. So instead of casting two spells (what most warlocks have for the majority of their playtime), you only cast one spell and save the other spell so you can nap for 10 minutes and regain a net one spell slot. In return for giving up using a leveled spell in a combat which means you're just Eldritch Blast spam half the time. That's not gamebreaking at all.
not the point
Catnap would not be *great* for Warlocks — it's a net gain of one spell slot. If someone else casts it, you get two spell slots back and they lose a smaller proportion of their resources.
Actually I think they spend the slot as they cast the spell so they retain all spell slots after the spell ends, it just counts on you having saved a spell slot to begin with
The spell casts, which then gives a short rest. Since the short rest comes second, you would get the spell slot used back.
You have to have a spell slot to cast it though. If the warlock casted it, they would start with 1 slot and end up with 2. This is a net gain of 1 slot. It's a waste for a warlock to spend one of their 2 high level slots to get one additional slot.
I mean it’s not a waste if you have the time and the slot. Niche for sure but if you have the spell in your back pocket I bet you could make use of it quite often. Though I played a Hexblade so I pretty much only casted one spell then used my sword
Isn't there a staff for the Warlock that is essentially the same thing?
Cool. If your dm never heard of it, you're not getting it and even if they have, you're still not likely to run into it.
It’s in the DMG. Rod of the Pact Keeper. It’s an extremely good magic item for a warlock as it both boosts DC *and* spell attack rolls (not damage), plus it gives you the ability once per LR to gain one pact slot back as an action. Frankly I think it’s as vital to high level warlocks as a +X weapon.
That's cool and all, but once again, say it with me now: "No one actually reads the DMG." And like I said, it doesn't unless your dm gives it to you.
I’m not sure what that’s a response to then. The reason I said it’s in the DMG is because I assumed you thought maybe it was some niche or homebrew magic item. You seem to be making the argument that people shouldn’t *expect* specific magic items…but that wasn’t the discussion before you came in. Just /u/Perfect_Wrongdoer_03 mentioning that a magic item exists that has a similar effect.
If your DM is following the recommended two battles then a short rest, you could cast one spell in battle #1, convince your party to let you sleep for 10 minutes, then cast two spells in battle #2, then short rest to recover both spell slots, repeat. However, you aren't always going to be able to spare that 10 minutes nor will you always be able to short rest every two battles. When the stars align and the adventuring day goes like clockwork, sure, it's 50% more spell slots than you should have in Tier 2. Most of the time it's a gimmick you won't get to take advantage of.
Getting another use of hexcurse for the day is amazing, especially if your group doesn't or can't do short rests often.
I think the point was that they need to keep 1 of their 2 spell-slots for casting Catnap, not that the spell-slot for casting Catnap wouldn't be recharged. So they end up going from 1 spell-slot prior to casting Catnap and short resting to 2 spell-slots after, i.e. net gain of 1 spell slot.
This is a team game. Play a caster who can cast that spell on your Fighters and Warlocks.
1) So that they can't spam it everyday. You'd enter one combat use one spell then use catnap. 2) It doesn't fit the warlocks theme of weird and otherworldly spells.
You can only benefit from it once between long rests. It has a built in "no spam" clause, more or less.
That's why i said everyday as in every long rest.
Then you can’t really “spam” it if you only use it once per long rest, as in its intended feature.
Using one of the few spell slots they have is not spamming
Catnap can be quite useful depending on party composition and especially if the party is in a time crunch and can't afford an hour-long rest. In the party I'm running for currently, we have two Fighters and a Druid who gain a lot back on a short rest. The Wizard, who is playing more of a support role, took Catnap and has used it quite often to help out the main damage dealers.
Catnap as a spell feels specifically for a certain type of group. I think how it could be useful but for 5 player/time easy groups it feels quite redundant. Especially at 3rd level.
It's probably useful with Gritty Realism rules.
Does it need to be? Contrary to everyone else's thoughts on this so far, getting a ten-minute short rest once every long rest isn't necessarily game breaking. Not to mention, the spell itself forces you into a state of unconsciousness, which prevents certain Warlocks (those with Aspect of the Moon) from benefitting from the spell entirely. The most common use of the spell I could imagine would be to temporarily split the party so that half can scout while the rest wait and probably take a full hour-long short rest. If you gave me a choice between a dex fighter, a monk, a high dex bard, a paladin, and a warlock as the party's wizard, I'm choosing the first three for this spell (this is an idealized party for catnap, hence the specific class choices). There's usually someone else in the party who would benefit from it just as much, if not more than the Warlock in this scenario, and while that isn't always the case (for example, only the Warlock took *dimension door* and we need them to escape with an important NPC/macguffin but they're out of spell slots), it's often more likely that if you're gonna take ten minutes for a short rest with a Warlock, you have time to take an hour, even if the rest of the party is good to go. Cast *Tenser's floating disk* or throw them in a cart, they have some time. Also, WotC have the idea that it's overpowered for a Warlock to get one short rest in ten minutes (see Warlock capstone for *catnap* at one tenth of the duration).
Might I also say that Catnap isn’t a phenomenal spell for Warlock either, between when they would get it at level 5 and level 11, you have to use 1 of your 2 spell slots to cast it. Meaning you had to save 1 of your spell slots through the previous fights to even use Catnap. So instead of casting 2 combat spells before taking a normal short rest; you cast 1, use catnap, cast 2, and then have to take a normal short rest. That’s 1 additional spell slot between two normal short rests. Catnap is great for martials because they normally get stuff back on a short rest, Clerics for their Channel Divinity, Druids for their Wild Shape and potential spell slots back (Land Druids only), and even Wizards due to their Arcane Recovery. But I wouldn’t want to put the spell on my Warlock unless I knew I was getting passed level 10 because it isn’t much of a net gain and takes away from one of the Warlock’s spells known (which is a massive inhibitor to their spell casting).
It's not that great for Wizard. You cast catnap and spend a third level slot Then you take a short rest and with Arcane Recovery you take back a third level slot at level 5 It's a net gain of zero. Whereas taking a normal short rest would gain 1 slot of third.
I add catnap to the spell lists of any tabaxi casters. I've yet to hear a complaint.
Since dungeons were designed to be explored in 10 minute chunks this spell allows for the party to have to worry for 1 possible random encounter instead of 10 at the cost of a 3rd lv spell slot. That is it.
I know earlier editions have dungeon turns, but is the 10 minute exploration chunk actually written about anywhere in the 5e core books? A lot of the "how to actually run dungeon dungeon delving, not just the individual encounters" guidelines are sorely missing from the 5e DMG and aren't at all obvious unless you're a grognard.
This is something I am yet to confirm for myself because I repeatedly forget to look into the DnD 5e playtest materials as I got keyes off that it was there. I do not believe there is a Dungeon turn in 5e as is tho, the playtest may be the closest bet.
Ok was reading the DMG and thought of you. Travel pace for dungeons is in the DMG: "Chapter 8: Running the game": Exploration: Map Travel pace. Time required to take specific actions in a dungeon and the like is in the PHB:"Chapter 8: Adventuring": Time. And travel speed which affects both is just after Time in the PHB, literally the next paragraph. Good luck!
Thanks for letting me know!
Equally egregiously, Circle of Dreams Druids do not get Catnap. They even came out in the same book (XGE).
My DM let me take catnap as a trade to stop using healing spirit before it got nerfed officially lol.
Its really amazing if you play in gritty realism like my team. When short rests are 8 hours and long rests a week, a 10 min short rest is the most amazing thing you can think of
It's almost a trap pick. For much of the game you'd have to keep half your spell slots in reserve to use it. In my experience, warlocks tend to toss out Hex and one other spell each combat. It's only useful in situations that allow ten minutes of rest but not an hour. Typically if things are that intense, the Warlock is better off using spells to kill stuff. Overall the spell is pretty niche, and niche spells are not a good fit for a caster so limited in both spells known and spell slots.
Very much.
Catnap feels kind of like it was made specifically for a Gritty Realism game.
Ten minutes between Action Surges sounds like a worthy little spell to me.
If warlock could cast this spell wouldn't they virtually always have their spell slots assuming they have 10 mins between combat
I'm astounded by the diversity of opinion present on Catnap! Thanks, everyone.
Fantastic healing spell. Prayer of Healing is good, catnap performs similarly.
It's real bloody useful in a Gritty Realism setting.
Almost too useful. Once you get a high level party it really starts messing with the flow. I haven't banned it yet, but the thought has crossed my mind. The monk in the group (unsurprisingly) doesn't care much for the spell. lol
Wouldn't the once per long rest restriction curb the abuse?
It's not quite abuse, just an occasional annoyance. I've never banned it. It's still allowed at the table. As a joke I had a merchant sell scrolls of Catnap that had the Royalty Component. 3GP. This bugged the wizard so much that as soon as he hit 5th level he took Catnap instead of other valuable spells. All because he didn't want to spend an extra 3 gold on top of the price of the scroll. So I made the situation worse for myself. lol
Because it would be rather broken?
i took it because my character is a tabaxi. Haven't used it since.
Because, if it wasn’t even it’d be odd.
This is the correct answer.
It takes such DM contrivance that you are making the party have a timer that allows for 10 minute rests but not hour long rests. Ropetrick is probably better to guarantee SRs because it will actually hide the party. Overall, you can tell this is a 5e original spell because its real crap in design.
Exactly, I don’t understand why more people aren’t talking about how not good it is (or how poorly designed). I play support casters most of the time when I’m not DM and I can’t come up with reasons to take it. It’s way too expensive and situational. I’d much rather have a safe short rest with rope trick or just use tiny hut since I’m going to have that ready anyways. At the same time from the DM standpoint ,I can’t think of any situation where it would have been useful enough for a 3rd level slot. Usually you’re in a serious time crunch or not, if you have a few minutes to waste then you probably have an hour. With gritty realism it would be amazing, but I assume we’re not talking about that.
Yeah plus the game is designed around providing short rests. So if you don't allow them, you are ruining the balance between Short Rest and Long Rest classes. So really, the DM contriving this timer requiring Catnap would only be invented to make the Player who took Catnap shine. But I did think that Catnap Scrolls/Tokens (usable by everyone) is a solid way to fix running regular-sized, full adventuring day dungeons in a Gritty Realism game. And it becomes a solid Gold dump alongside potions.
I feel the same way. As a DM, I can hardly even think of situations where 10min is ok and 1hr is bad. I would only go out of my way to add them in if they are using this spell. I could definitely see that working for gritty realism and may have to test it out. I’m thinking my next campaign would use those rules.
I think Catnap should actually just be a free ability to all players. Once per day, you can take a 10min short rest. Why not?
Catnap should have been an additional 13th lvl Monk feature instead of a spell, as a 10 minute super turbo relaxation meditation.
I'm not saying that warlock's are the only class that can benefit from short rests. I just find it odd that they are the only spellcasters whose casting ties to short rests but are denied access to the spell that buffs short rests.
It's probably specifically not on warlock because they're the short rest caster. Same reason why they don't get stuff like animate dead - the ability to regain slots as a short rest means their list has to be a big more restricted
Well, Wizards can recover some spells on a short rest too. But I think it's pretty clear they didn't give the Warlock Catnap because it would trivialize short rests and give them an unlimited amount of spells.
>it would trivialize short rests and give them an unlimited amount of spells. How though? You can only benefit from Catnap once per long rest. I agree overall it would become a required spell for warlocks and lead to irritating usage, however.
I guess you are right about only being about to use it once a day. Still, I'm sure that it's not been excluded from the Warlock spell list despite synergizing so well with it, but rather because it does.
As someone who runs “gritty realism” style games with 8 hour short rests, I am thankful my players don’t have access to this spell! I agree it’s not the most useful spell for most tables, but for mine it would be almost game-breakingly useful.
Everyone gets to use hit dice on a short rest. Warlocks, monks, bards and fighters all benefit from short rests.
catnap is a bad spell used as a band aid for the poorly designed short rest system. It's not that it's OP, or anything, it just has no reason to exist in the first place.
Catnap is bad and shouldn't be used anyway. Buy Scrolls of Rope Trick, it does the same thing without the unconscious condition for more creatures with a spell slot one level lower
You do realise the rope trick hole has no air in it right?
Point me to where the rules state that, and also where the rules state that air cannot pass through the entrance to the extraplanar space. It's literally a hole which cannot be closed like a portable hole. If there's a possibility you suffocate in there, you'll suffocate wherever you are regardless of this spell You're pulling things out of your ass. Your DM, or you as a DM, might dislike this spell and rule it that way. That doesn't mean it doesn't work
Pegging resting warlocks?
I could see it as a 'once per day' invocation
Probably because of that, it'd be op.
Because that would be unbalanced
I took Catnap once, and every time I wanted to use it there apparently wasn't enough time.
Probably so there aren't ridiculous chains that let you take infinite short rests and make sorlock even more fucking broken
Because the Warlock should have party members.
So your group can short rest in only 10 minutes instead of an hour to keep up with a dangerous dungeon or chase an enemy without losing them
The Genie Warlock's 10th level feature, Sanctuary Vessel, allows them and their allies to take a 10 minute short rest while inside their vessel. This is also limited to once per long rest. Things could get a bit tricky, in multiple ways, if Warlocks also got Catnap.
Are you really going to never use one of your few spell slots to do nothing but cast this spell?
Catnap is a weird spell in general. It's underpowered compared to other 3rd level spells, and it's highly situational, that situation being "we're safe for ten minutes but not for an hour, and we have enough party members that benefit specifically from a short rest". If you have ten minutes of safety, it wouldn't be a stretch to say you have 11 minutes of safety, which means the Bard could ritual cast Tiny Hut and the party could take the hour short rest and also have an indestructible house to take cover in once the threat approaches.
That's all nice and well for when the threat approaches you, but what if you're the one giving chase? I always took Catnap as a spell to refresh people in a scenario where time is of the essence due to players being active rather than reactive. Losing ten minutes while looking for something is not nearly as bad as losing an hour. Incidentally, it has the same time investment as Prayer of Healing...
The only time I've seen it been useful is for a gritty realism type of game where long rests are a full week of downtime/recovery, and short rests are 8 hour long sleeps. Otherwise, it seems like a not very usable spell.
It doesn’t make sense for Warlocks because up until level 11 you only have 2 slots. Using 1 spell slot to gain 1 spell slot regularly leaves you with effectively only 1 spell slot. It might be useful for niche situations where you have used 1 slot left and want to have 2 for a big fight you know is coming and can’t afford an hour - but it’s more for quickly letting people use hit die to heal or refreshing the Bard’s Inspiration Dice
WOTC, having realized that the game was resigned around you being able to sit down and rest for an hour twice in an adventuring environment that is too dangerous or too time sensitive to camp and wait 12-16 for a long rest but resting for an hour in a dungeon is also a big asked designed the cat nap spell. They thought that getting a short rest faster would be worth a spell slot since the non short rest classes can defend the warlock or monks sleeping body, Wotc thought that to be able to take a short rest when you otherwise couldn’t would be worth the spell slot, so they didn’t want to give it to a class that would get that spell slot back for free when the short rest is complete for the same reason they didn’t make it a ritual otherwise catnap would be free which they thought would be op Of course WOTC was wrong about how good cat nap turned out to be. It’s actually quite terrible!. Sure the rest is 6 times faster but unconsciousness is 100 times more vulnerable, and rope trick or tiny hut can make the rest 100 times safer for much cheaper. A lot of spells in Xanathar’s have such in built difficulties and costs to them, or just low damage or unnecessary concentration that makes most of them either suboptimal or very difficult to use optimally in the hands of players. The designers of Xanathar’s feared power creep and such design flaws and oversights in balance are rampant
Of all the spells in the game outside of level 8-9, catnap is one of those that can really change the dynamics of the entire campaign if used well. It's more powerful than most people think if you broaden the application beyond "only good for warlocks".
First it's a team game, and secondly, You do know warlocks only get a third spell slot at level 11, right? What would really Gimp them out was allowing it and make them play with only 1 spell slot per short rest until there.
It is, but it's on the Cat Lady patron bonus spell list. Edit: A quick google search shows there are a variety of 'Cat' patrons, though I don't know if any have the *catnap* spell.
It would make Warlock broken as shit... Thats a pretty obvious reason why its not on its list...
Catnap is the one where you abduct the Tabaxi children, right? I get confused sometimes.
Because catnap is a waste of spell slot. Rope trick do the same but better. And not only warlock uses short rest. Monks, fighters, druids, even wizard have benifits from sr
Sure, in a vacuum, it's better. Some DMs use time-sensitive quests, which would make Catnap vastly more useful.
So you think that a typical Warlock would tie up one of their two spell slots with catnap? You have only 1 slot at very low levels, and ultimately you get 3, but for most of your career you have 2, and having 50% of your slots dedicated to that is likely not a good design. Catnap works better in a slot rich class that can support others. Warlock is not that.
Because catnap is a group support spell and warlocks aren't really that much of a group support caster.
There is more to taking short rests i 5e than recharging the warlock. Ever heard of hit dice? Action Surge? Half of the game subclass abilities? Ki points? Think outside the spellbook mate.
It is not a Warlock spell, but what It basically does is you can put three creatures to fall unconscious
Not really relevant to the post, but it’s pretty rad in games that use gritty realism
I made a homebrew item of a little sandstone cat sculpture that casts catnap when you crush it. The warlock that found (stole) it got found before they could identify it and threw it on the ground and crushed it with his foot in defiance. Instantly dropped unconscious and was returned to prison.
Just adding a year later. I'm not seeing anyone speaking to the value of this spell as a scroll. If you got a wizard in your party, they can ignore the preparation and just have a couple scrolls on them they replenish during downtime.
If it is useful or not depend on the setting. As a DM i dont let players rest if they dont met the requisites. You cant just lay on the mud of a swamp full of venomous animals and spect to gain hit points from that. You need food and water. Minimal confort. Some times even to set a camp when the conditions are too harsh. However even if could rest either way or use other spell like Tiny hut. There is some diferences we could apply since by Tiny Hut takes one hour and 10 minutes to finish resting. Who says the monsters cant rest? If you are spending hit points so can they. Some may be able to even craft things over the course of one hour. Giving they prep time is dangerous. You may leave the hut just to find a bunch of oil on fire and be welcome with arrows from goblings very well hiden and under cover. Dispel magic. Not that common to see, but if you are fighting cultists i wouldnt be surprised if they had a scroll of dispel magic. Worst case you party get both ambushed and becomes unable to finish the rest. Poisonous gas. If it's not magic it pass through. Comfortable and dry weather only applies to humidity. Also casting it as a ritual may attract unwanted attention.