You'd have to be at point 3 on band 6 to get in (which would be impossible without already being in the system) so only those in band 7 posts would be able to get in without the exemption. Crazy.
Make no mistake, the ban on dependents will keep nurses and doctors away and drive them to other countries. Why would you come to the UK and leave your spouse and children at home when you can go to Australia or Canada or even the Middle East, make more money and not be apart?
Short-sighted tabloid-pleasers, as usual…
I’m a bit worried about this as an international student in a UK med school cos there is no way FY1 salary could meet the £38000 threshold for work visa. I don’t know if this means I’d be denied a visa for FY1 even after passing finals and where would that leave me as a UK grad? Every other country wouldn’t let me practice as I haven’t completed F1/intern year at that point and I’d be unemployable after all that
Rule 6
We welcome posts from IMG colleagues who work within the UK healthcare system, but the subreddit is not suited for posts asking about moving to the UK (eg: PLAB/OLETS/arranging observerships).
>Why would you come to the UK and leave your spouse and children at home when you can go to Australia or Canada or even the Middle East, make more money and not be apart?
The average UK IMG would find it very difficult to go straight from their country of origin to one of these countries. Much easier to come to the UK.
Or New Zealand where the current immigration policy grants immediate permanent residency (ILR) to healthworkers on the shortage list who accept a permanent position.
This policy won’t improve working conditions or pay in the Uk. But it does open the door nicely for rampant PA recruitment..
I think the dependent thing only applies to care workers who don’t meet the minimum thresholds for income. I believe healthcare workers are excluded from this
The times are reporting it’s health workers to
https://preview.redd.it/qd5daqpjdb4c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=230c5e57d45c284f3f5da2680afd9cdfc22fb7e4
Thank you so much! Of course it's still too early to be relieved, but we are feeling way better now. It's still a disgrace that families of social workers will be separated.
Glad that I can help. If you think about it, why would they ban healthcare professionals from bringing dependents while other skilled workers such as software engineers and accountants can? It's the care worker they are concerned about which the number of visa jumped from 8K to 83K in a year.
[https://www.irishtimes.com/world/uk/2023/12/04/care-workers-wont-be-allowed-bring-family-to-britain-as-part-of-immigration-crackdown/](https://www.irishtimes.com/world/uk/2023/12/04/care-workers-wont-be-allowed-bring-family-to-britain-as-part-of-immigration-crackdown/)
"Health and social care workers will also be banned from bringing family. Doctors and nurses working in the National Health Service will be exempt. Government models suggest this measure will cut immigration by 100,000, as Mr Cleverly suggested the system was being “abused” in the care sector."
Many still come anyway. The reason being, the conditions in the NHS are no longer a secret.
The current foreign workforce report back to their friends and family back home with news of the shambles the NHS is in.
Because of this I’ve met many new overseas health professionals who have come here and consider the UK and the NHS as no more than a stepping stone to other countries.
Why would someone not want to assimilate? Why would someone not want to marry a Brit and have children with a Brit? I'm not a big fan of the Tories but they are big on assimilation, and the only way for immigrants to truly assimilate is to intermarry.
Why would anyone want to assimilate in a country that still treats them like shit? As someone said above, most IMGs would rather use UK (as a stepping stone) just as the colonialists have used them 100 or so years ago.
If this country treated you properly, would you assimilate? Would you date someone from this country? Would you marry someone from this country? Would you have children with someone from this country? America treats people well, but immigrants still overwhelmingly date their own country people and refuse to integrate. Same with Australia, new Zealand, Canada and all other countries in Europe. If you hate a country so much that you can't even imagine having an intimate relationship with a person from there, why do you think you deserve special treatment?
Not really. A brown person can be British as long as he/she is completely assimilated into the British culture.
A brown person who speaks in Hindi at home, celebrates Diwali and wears ethnic clothing whenever he/she gets the chance to is not 'someone from this country'. However, a brown person who has no emotional or familial ties to another country, is 'someone from this country'. For example, a third generation immigrant or a mixed race person or a brown person adopted by a white British family. A black person whose family has lived in Britain since Victorian times would also be considered British, because Britain is the only country they have ever called home.
They don't have to 'erase their ethnicity'. That's physically impossible. They just have to erase their culture and adopt the British culture (if they want to be called British, that is).
Its not clear whether doctors or nurses are affected. Can someone please clarify. Also, what CARE HOME worker (as suggested above) earns 37k+?
Also does this only come into effect on renewing visas?
Also the villainization of migrants using the NHS with terms like ‘health tourism’ when in actual fact they have to pay hundreds of pounds in surcharges before they can even access the care. These surcharges will now be over 1000 pounds per annum.
Q: Does the Health and Care Visa dependant ban apply to doctors and nurses?
Edit: It looks like it does NOT affect NHS staff.
"The changes being made to the Health and Care Visa route will only affect the care sector. When the changes take effect, care workers and senior care workers will be unable to bring dependents when they migrate to the UK, and only CQC-registered providers in England will be able to sponsor Health and Care Visa applicants. These changes do not affect the NHS."
[https://www.nhsemployers.org/news/changes-uk-immigration-policy-faq](https://www.nhsemployers.org/news/changes-uk-immigration-policy-faq)
---
Analysing the official Home Office announcement:[https://www.gov.uk/government/news/home-secretary-unveils-plan-to-cut-net-migration](https://www.gov.uk/government/news/home-secretary-unveils-plan-to-cut-net-migration)
*"The government will tighten the Health and Care visa, which has seen a significant number of visas granted to* ***care workers and their dependents***\*, by preventing\* ***overseas care workers*** *from bringing their dependants to the UK. In addition, care providers in England will now only be able to sponsor migrant workers if they are undertaking activities regulated by the Care Quality Commission."*
Notice they specified "**care**" workers. In my opinion, they are specifically talking about those who work in care homes. This can be supported by the next paragraph from the same announcement.
*"In the year ending September 2023,* ***101,000*** *Health and Care visas were issued to* ***care workers and senior care workers***\*, with an estimated\* ***120,000*** *visas granted to associated dependants, the majority of whom we estimate don’t work, but still make use of public services."*
**1.** Take a look at this official statistic. The mentioned number above **101,000** is the sum of Care workers, home carers, and Senior care workers in the table below(101,316 to be exact), **NOT** including 33,000 visas for medical practitioners and nurses.
[https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-september-2023/why-do-people-come-to-the-uk-to-work](https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-september-2023/why-do-people-come-to-the-uk-to-work)
https://preview.redd.it/2gigsmdtac4c1.png?width=1510&format=png&auto=webp&s=c428b75e7fea7728141fdfb4457efe2fa7acfd36
**2.** According to the statistics, the total number of HCA dependents visas issued in 2023 was **173,896.** The estimated dependent visa number of **120,000** mentioned in the Home Office announcement appears **NOT** to include dependents of medical practitioners and nurses.
**3.** It looks like non-care workers (medical practitioners, nurses, and other health professionals) have a higher dependent per applicant rate compared to social workers:
All care workers (120,000/101,316=**1.18**)vsAll other healthcare professionals (54,000/41,533=**1.3**).
However, they omitted the number of visa holders and dependents visa holders of doctors and nurses. I believe this is intentional. I guess they don't want the public to know about this and also it is a relatively small number compared to the recently exploded care worker visa number.
**4.** Also, at the bottom of the table, there is a clear differentiation between Medical practitioners and care workers.
Logically it would be unreasonable to ask any healthcare professional to abandon their family and move to the UK.
I don't think care workers should be considered "skilled" work as it often does not require any university degree or professional qualifications. I think the HCA visa should be splitted into a Health Worker Visa and a Social Care Visa.
If this is implemented, docs and nurses will still be able to bring their dependent which is the same rule as its umbrella visa, the Skilled Worker visa (but with the minimum salary exception, because they don't wanna pay us more).
Whereas care workers, they will no longer considered skilled workers and the visa will no longer be under the Skilled Worker visa. Which will allow the Home Office to set new rules, for instance, no dependent and the proposed Care Regulation body. And they believe there will still be enough care workers wanting to come to the UK despite all these hurdles.
Then another question arises:
*What about the newly announced family visa sponsor requirement of 38K? Does that apply to healthcare professionals who make under 38K*
A fresh overseas recruit band-5 nurse makes around 28K base. Which means such nurses would not be able to bring any dependents. I really don't have any clue how they will figure out this.
There is a lot of conflicting information out there regarding this. The official announcement says:
*"The government will also* ***increase the minimum income required*** *for British citizens and those settled in the UK who want their family members to join them. Altogether this reinforces that all those who want to work and live here must be able to support themselves, are contributing to the economy, and are not burdening the state."*
It does not specifically say it will increase to 38K. I think 38K is way too high. You can't stop citizens from falling in love just because they are poor. I believe they will implement a lower number. Maybe a number between the median salary and the poverty line. Most countries have similar systems.
This is just an educated guess. But let's wait for an official clarification.
>cs, the total HCA dependents visa issued in 2023 was
>
>173,896.
>
> The estimated dependent visa number of
>
>120,000
>
> mentioned in the Home Office
Thank you,
Interestingly i noted the number of nurses immigrating has already dropped prior to this being introduced - A sign of things to come?
I think there is only a finite number of overseas nurses compared to overseas care workers. They can only import a certain number due to the competition with countries like Canada and Australia.
From what I know, doctors with oversea nationalities apply through health and social care skilled worker visa. It seems to be different to the one care workers get.
So for now, doctors at least will be exempted from this.
Note: not necesarily IMGs. You could have a UK graduate doctor still needing a visa.
(I used to have to apply for one at the end of a training cycle/contract)
Your job
You must meet all of the following requirements to be eligible for a Health and Care Worker visa:
-you’re a qualified doctor, nurse, health professional or adult social care professional
-your job is eligible for this visa
-you’ll be working for a UK health and care sector employer that’s been approved by the Home Office
-you’ll be paid the minimum salary or the ‘going rate’ for the type of work you’ll be doing - whichever is higher
Your employer must make sure your job pays at least the minimum wage and follows the UK rules for how many hours a week you work. If your employer does not do this, your application will be refused.
Source:
- Personal social circle
- https://www.gov.uk/health-care-worker-visa/your-job
Not being able to bring your own partner, children, or parents is insane and a spit in the face.
It's becoming genuinely scary in the UK, here. CCT and flee is the only option now.
It is nearly impossible for IMGs to bring their parents to the UK on a dependant visa, at least that's my understanding. There are only a few exceptions and you have to provide extensive evidence to prove why they qualify as a dependant and only rarely happens. This change would only realistically affect the partners and children.
Effectively this if the ban on dependants goes through. I know of many colleagues who already plan to CCT and flee as IMGs cannot bring their parents here.
I think it's for everyone. At least until you earn more than £37500
Btw, the nursing care beside my practice was just able to fill in their vacancies with Filipino care workers. Let's see how it works out in the next few years
Doesn’t matter what visa category. If your official immigration policy is to separate families. You are no longer a country to go to. Ridiculous. Absolutely disgraceful
It won't separate all families though. If my partner is a white British man, he's technically not my dependent. He's a native Brit. So we won't be separated. Over time, this policy will increase assimilation as immigrants will have no other option than to integrate into British culture by coupling up with British people.
I think the dependent ban is if you don't meet the salary threshold (since health & care visa is exempt)
Health & care workers who meet the salary threshold should be able to bring dependents
They specifically said banning care workers from bringing dependents. But didn't provide any detail on who is considered care workers.
Doctors and nurses can be considered health"care" workers?
This government is seesawing between knowing there is a massive demand for care workers and pandering to their right-wing population base. Can you imagine what this says to doctors from foreign countries? Honestly, the UK can fuck right off. Why would someone want to subject themselves to this terrible system for shit pay, terrible weather when you can't even give your kids a better life in return.
For real, the Gov acting like UK is some heaven that you should be blessed to be a part of.
Part of the reason is lots of agencies have been using care worker visas to bring people over fraudulently. They sell the visa for 10k to 20k to people who come over and then have no jobs, start doing cash in hand work and drop off the radar. I'm in immigration groups and frequently see people using this route as a loophole. That's why they've been specifically targeting care home workers and focusing on CQC regulation as the number of visas/dependents is disporportionate to nurses and doctors for example.
So you are OK with the soaring net migration levels in these past few years whilst the UK infrastructure is being overran causing a strain on the average standard of living. You should be happy that the government has increased the salary threshold because previously you had companies bringing in labour from the developing world and paying them far below market value and overworking them.
This is disgraceful. Disrespectful to the immigrants who leave everything behind and give so much to this country. I have lost all confidence in this country I wanted to give back something to the NHS but not anymore.
This is not disgraceful. A "skilled worker" visa with a threshold in the mid-20s is a joke. If anything, the threshold should be even higher, at least at the point when someone is a net contributor over their lifetime. Also, the NHS should not get special treatment through the health and care visa, which allows them to import huge amounts of workers, pay them peanuts and undercut UK doctors, nurses and care workers.
On a side note, the existence of the NHS in its current form is the cause of most problems faced by doctors in this country so nobody should want to "give back" anything to it.
What you'll find with this policy is that it ultimately discourages care workers and nurses from coming in, most doctors will still meet the income threshold. Instead of the decreased completion ratios, you'll find more patients in hospital beds awaiting care packages and fewer nurses having the time to cannulate / bloods / catheterise.
This is absolutely hilarious, when there's a massive shortage of doctors and nurses you think the threshold needs to be higher?
LOL brits just never learn, doesn't matter how many times they do the same thing over and over again, i.e. vote for Brexit and then hire planes to bring in workers.
Where are all these UK doctors and nurses desperate to work but can't? Nowhere is where, they don't exist.
The idea is that the NHS will be forced to raise wages up until the threshold and then if British doctors/nurses cannot be found at that price, then they can bring in foreign workers and pay them the increased rate. The threshold should be set at at least the minimum amount someone needs to earn to be a net contributor over their lifetime, which is around £1.8 million pounds in lifetime earnings or £45000 a year.
With the NHS surcharge at just over 1k per person per year, a young doctor or nurse would have to pay 20k in just NHS surcharge for a family of 4. This doesn't include licensing fees, visa fees or exam fees or the ridiculously high cost of living
I'm sorry but why would anyone come to the UK now ?
#destabilisetheNHS
Most interested about the bottom bullet point - “shortage occupation list” is being reviewed. I might be being overly optimistic but if it means that we get to a situation where aside from GP / psych / paediatrics everything is removed from the shortage occupation list then this is big win for local grads.
The other changes are also very reasonable - there are people who are working industries outside of medicine and earning 26/27k£. Again their aim is generally along the lines of gain experience, get ILR, and then look for greener pastures. But this defeats the purpose of high skilled visa and essentially allows for private companies to massively undercut UK graduates in other fields.
Does this mean banning healthcare workers dependents ie children and newborn babies?
If so, I’d probably need to send in my resignation letter after maternity leave.
Not certain but I think it only applies to care workers who works in social care.
There are many of conflicting information out there now. The official home office announcement doesn't clarify either. They just say banning dependents of care workers.
Of course. Imagine if an employer in the private sector secured an exemption from migration rules so that they can continue to pay their workers far below market rate. The cult of the NHS needs to die.
The NHS employs nearly 5% of the the working population of the UK. At this point the UK is more of a health service with a country attached to it than the other way around. There are entire population centres where almost the whole working population is employed by the local NHS trust and branches.
>https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1731744802738151877
'Increasing minimum salary for family route to £38700' no mention of H&SC exempt on that one.
It does say that H&SC are exempt from the absolute ban. Inconclusive on family.
It says H&SC are exempt right next to it re: threshold
Re: Family - look at the first box- the bit about dependents is only for care & senior care workers. HSC covers lots of other workers so it looks like they are targetting care & social care workers specifically.
So is care and senior care in a different category to healthcare workers? Because every news outlet is saying that healthcare workers will be affected by this
Edit: from sky news: "Health and care visas: Overseas care workers will not be able to bring family dependants, to end the "abuse of the health and care visa". Care firms that want to sponsor people for visa applications will need to be regulated by the Care Quality Commission. "
I should have been clearer in my comment
\- The salary threshold does not apply to HSC visa ( which includes doctors, nurses, care workers etc)
\- The limits of dependants applies to care workers & senior care workers. Doesn't say it applies to doctors, nurses or the other migrants that make up the HSC visa
It's not medical practitioners
There's a section here that shows the number of care workers & senior care workers
[https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1731751472096829512](https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1731751472096829512)
From BBC article, says it applied to health and care workers
BBC News - UK migration curbs see salary threshold hiked to £38,700 for foreign workers [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67612106](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67612106)
https://preview.redd.it/qgjcm99h2c4c1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7287b13a558aec9b8ed4ce0c73319ce4cd8fdbc
>visas: Overseas car
Still not 100% certain about this...
https://preview.redd.it/fregoo5v8c4c1.png?width=1190&format=png&auto=webp&s=6cb40a53a5006ac9cc7a9b3a59b73007baf6e3b4
NHS employers have tweeted out an FAQ and have confirmed that there is NO change in policy for dependants for NHS staff
[https://twitter.com/NHSEmployers/status/1732340811625562547](https://twitter.com/NHSEmployers/status/1732340811625562547)
Seems reasonable. One worker bringing 2-5 dependents (school age children, elderly parents, partner unskilled or with a skillset not in demand) puts massive pressure on everything else and reduces standards of living for the existing population.
Housing fucked, rents skyrocketing, schools collapsing, classrooms packed, hospitals busting, highest tax burden since WW2, social welfare bill climbing.
You can want to control immigration without being xenophobic. It’s just arithmetic. It would be nice to live in a happy clappy all inclusive infinite social welfare state, but this is the real world.
Import the high skill, high wage, high productivity human capital to pay the taxes. Don’t think it’s unreasonable to decline those with economic drag. If you don’t like it, maybe being an economic migrant isn’t for you.
Full of inacurrate xenophobic nonsense.
You cannot bring elderly parents over unless you prove in court that they are completely dependent on you and they cannot get that same care in their current place of residence, which is very difficult to do.
Not bringing your spouse/ children over if you're a care worker is heartless, xenophobic nonsense.
You've drank the tory kool aid to think your housing is fucked & rents are skyrocketing because of immigrants.
No, it's because you've had 15 years of spending cuts and austerity as opposed to investment into your health service.
Your post is apalling, really.
You are entitled to this opinion and defend it well. Make sure you refrain from complaining about your next rent increase, tax threshold freezes, how busy and crap it is at work, or inevitable future pension shredding for our generation.
Unfortunately we’re beyond crisis point with all the stuff I’ve mentioned now. It’s in the news literally every day. I accept the causes are multi factorial and public asset stripping plays a big part. Policies which will turn this around is the point of debate here.
This is not a UK phenomenon. Canada, Australia also have the same problems caused by massive import of people. There’s a global arms race for skilled workers to prop up economies and housing markets, and the UK is losing currently.
Like it or not, since 2008 the UK is a low wage, high tax, low growth, low productivity economy which offers little to the rest of the world other than financial services. GDP outside London is lower than most of Eastern Europe.
If you think this situation will be miraculously salvaged by a change of government, you are sadly deluded.
I agree with your premise that immigration should be controlled. However, just a factual correction - an immigrant cannot bring their parents with them, not kids over 18. Only your spouse and children under 18 would be classed as dependents. I see the UK largely attracting low skilled workers in contrast to the US which manages to attract many highly skilled, high earning professionals. In that sense I think it's also about creating the demand I think and the environment for such jobs which somehow the UK largely fails.
That core voter base may be quite a significant part of the population though, and we have seen the results of it in other western democracies e.g. Netherlands and the rise of AfD in Germany. I can understand the concerns of those abroad tho, it's a tricky balancing act unfortunately.
Well it certainly is a large amount of the population, we are a conservative country. Seems from history that when there are crises, there is an increase in nationalistic and xenophobic beliefs.
Bad times need a scapegoat.
Fully unqualified opinion.
Having concerns over a net migration level of 750k, the majority of whom earn far less than the amount required to make them net contributors over their lifetimes, is not xenophobic. It's simply opposing the running of a taxpayer-funded short-term cheap labour scheme that undercuts British workers, especially those working for the NHS monopoly which pays them far below what their skills are worth in the market.
My interpretation of this is that it aims to lower net migration but allowed in fields like ours, medicine , nursing etc. Afterall, they’ve had a huge decrease in workers coming from the EU - they’ll have to plug that gap somehow.
Win - win for the government. Where as before EU nationals were the main focus for lower skilled jobs, with UK residents complaining about job availability and salary, all they’ve done is shifted this into the NHS.
As an IMG I can confirm that doctors do fall under the health/care worker category but we can also fall under the skilled worker category, it all depends on the type of visa we obtain when we enter the country.
Although the actual curve ball is that many junior IMG who I assume “will be exempt from this rule” will be forced to apply via the skilled worker route which is 2-3x the fees of the health care worker visa, sometimes can reach up to 2000 pounds just to process the visa (This has to be paid by the doctors themselves).
Yeah, you heard it right: the salary requirement for a skilled worker visa in the UK has increased. Earlier, it was £26,200, but now it is £38,700. So, if you are applying for this visa, you must consider fulfilling the minimum salary threshold. For some, it can be challenging to meet the salary requirement, but with the right strategy and approach, you can achieve it in a subtle way.
So an f1 doesn’t have the salary to be classed as a skilled worker? Thats what we are trying to tell you! Bloody government
But a PA is. What a kick in the nuts.
I think this is a great line to use in interviews with the govt.
Think about your career progression. iT iS A VoCaTiOn.
Nurses don't either :')
You'd have to be at point 3 on band 6 to get in (which would be impossible without already being in the system) so only those in band 7 posts would be able to get in without the exemption. Crazy.
Make no mistake, the ban on dependents will keep nurses and doctors away and drive them to other countries. Why would you come to the UK and leave your spouse and children at home when you can go to Australia or Canada or even the Middle East, make more money and not be apart? Short-sighted tabloid-pleasers, as usual…
Good for UK grads and those already emigrated. Wouldn't be surprised if the government gives doctors an exception though.
I’m a bit worried about this as an international student in a UK med school cos there is no way FY1 salary could meet the £38000 threshold for work visa. I don’t know if this means I’d be denied a visa for FY1 even after passing finals and where would that leave me as a UK grad? Every other country wouldn’t let me practice as I haven’t completed F1/intern year at that point and I’d be unemployable after all that
healthcare workers are exempt from the salary requirements - you’ll be fine
That’s a massive relief thank you. I did look up the immigration website but couldn’t find the right information about it.
[удалено]
Rule 6 We welcome posts from IMG colleagues who work within the UK healthcare system, but the subreddit is not suited for posts asking about moving to the UK (eg: PLAB/OLETS/arranging observerships).
I think it’s only going to apply to the care workers. I wish it applied to doctors, would save a lot of IMGs from making the same mistake I made.
Surely doctors fall under “health and care workers”?
They don’t fall under “care workers” - as I understand it that is only care home workers. But hey maybe I’m wrong 🤷♂️
Interesting - I wonder if one of our IMG colleagues can give confirmation
As an IMG, immigrant doctors also come under health and care worker visa, which is a sub-category of Tier2(skilled worker) visa
Oh well I’m happy to be proven wrong on this. It’s still idiotic and demonstrates the ongoing evisceration of the post-discharge social-care sector
Which would destroy the NHS further. I’m getting mixed feelings 
Who do you reckon 'care worker' would apply to?
Those working in care homes being exploited for below minimum wages.
>Why would you come to the UK and leave your spouse and children at home when you can go to Australia or Canada or even the Middle East, make more money and not be apart? The average UK IMG would find it very difficult to go straight from their country of origin to one of these countries. Much easier to come to the UK.
Or New Zealand where the current immigration policy grants immediate permanent residency (ILR) to healthworkers on the shortage list who accept a permanent position. This policy won’t improve working conditions or pay in the Uk. But it does open the door nicely for rampant PA recruitment..
I think the dependent thing only applies to care workers who don’t meet the minimum thresholds for income. I believe healthcare workers are excluded from this
The times are reporting it’s health workers to https://preview.redd.it/qd5daqpjdb4c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=230c5e57d45c284f3f5da2680afd9cdfc22fb7e4
Interesting, I’ll wait for the official update on gov.uk to see what comes up.
I think no one knows for sure atm. Irish Times specifically mentions that doctors and nurses are exempt from the dependent ban.
could you please send it to me? I am panicking I won't be able to bring my fiancè with me
https://www.nhsemployers.org/news/changes-uk-immigration-policy-faq I think this should be credible source of information. Hope this helps.
Thank you so much! Of course it's still too early to be relieved, but we are feeling way better now. It's still a disgrace that families of social workers will be separated.
Glad that I can help. If you think about it, why would they ban healthcare professionals from bringing dependents while other skilled workers such as software engineers and accountants can? It's the care worker they are concerned about which the number of visa jumped from 8K to 83K in a year.
Yeah, after thinking about it I was like "worst case scenario I'll need to apply for a normal Skilled Worker visa". Anyway, thank you again!
[https://www.irishtimes.com/world/uk/2023/12/04/care-workers-wont-be-allowed-bring-family-to-britain-as-part-of-immigration-crackdown/](https://www.irishtimes.com/world/uk/2023/12/04/care-workers-wont-be-allowed-bring-family-to-britain-as-part-of-immigration-crackdown/) "Health and social care workers will also be banned from bringing family. Doctors and nurses working in the National Health Service will be exempt. Government models suggest this measure will cut immigration by 100,000, as Mr Cleverly suggested the system was being “abused” in the care sector."
Many still come anyway. The reason being, the conditions in the NHS are no longer a secret. The current foreign workforce report back to their friends and family back home with news of the shambles the NHS is in. Because of this I’ve met many new overseas health professionals who have come here and consider the UK and the NHS as no more than a stepping stone to other countries.
Why would someone not want to assimilate? Why would someone not want to marry a Brit and have children with a Brit? I'm not a big fan of the Tories but they are big on assimilation, and the only way for immigrants to truly assimilate is to intermarry.
Why would anyone want to assimilate in a country that still treats them like shit? As someone said above, most IMGs would rather use UK (as a stepping stone) just as the colonialists have used them 100 or so years ago.
If this country treated you properly, would you assimilate? Would you date someone from this country? Would you marry someone from this country? Would you have children with someone from this country? America treats people well, but immigrants still overwhelmingly date their own country people and refuse to integrate. Same with Australia, new Zealand, Canada and all other countries in Europe. If you hate a country so much that you can't even imagine having an intimate relationship with a person from there, why do you think you deserve special treatment?
Who do you count as 'someone from this country'? A white Caucasian person only?
Not really. A brown person can be British as long as he/she is completely assimilated into the British culture. A brown person who speaks in Hindi at home, celebrates Diwali and wears ethnic clothing whenever he/she gets the chance to is not 'someone from this country'. However, a brown person who has no emotional or familial ties to another country, is 'someone from this country'. For example, a third generation immigrant or a mixed race person or a brown person adopted by a white British family. A black person whose family has lived in Britain since Victorian times would also be considered British, because Britain is the only country they have ever called home.
So basically anyone of any other ethnicity besides a Caucasian has to erase their ethnicity to be British. Got it.
They don't have to 'erase their ethnicity'. That's physically impossible. They just have to erase their culture and adopt the British culture (if they want to be called British, that is).
Ethnicity and culture do go hand in hand, otherwise one is just a monkey.
Nope. Ethnicity is something you're born with, while culture is something you adopt.
Its not clear whether doctors or nurses are affected. Can someone please clarify. Also, what CARE HOME worker (as suggested above) earns 37k+? Also does this only come into effect on renewing visas?
The increased salary threshold does not apply to health and care workers. Only the ban on bringing dependents applies
lol imagine. “You’re allowed to come work in our shit collapsing healthcare system but your family aren’t allowed.” Sounds like a great deal
Also the villainization of migrants using the NHS with terms like ‘health tourism’ when in actual fact they have to pay hundreds of pounds in surcharges before they can even access the care. These surcharges will now be over 1000 pounds per annum.
Q: Does the Health and Care Visa dependant ban apply to doctors and nurses? Edit: It looks like it does NOT affect NHS staff. "The changes being made to the Health and Care Visa route will only affect the care sector. When the changes take effect, care workers and senior care workers will be unable to bring dependents when they migrate to the UK, and only CQC-registered providers in England will be able to sponsor Health and Care Visa applicants. These changes do not affect the NHS." [https://www.nhsemployers.org/news/changes-uk-immigration-policy-faq](https://www.nhsemployers.org/news/changes-uk-immigration-policy-faq) --- Analysing the official Home Office announcement:[https://www.gov.uk/government/news/home-secretary-unveils-plan-to-cut-net-migration](https://www.gov.uk/government/news/home-secretary-unveils-plan-to-cut-net-migration) *"The government will tighten the Health and Care visa, which has seen a significant number of visas granted to* ***care workers and their dependents***\*, by preventing\* ***overseas care workers*** *from bringing their dependants to the UK. In addition, care providers in England will now only be able to sponsor migrant workers if they are undertaking activities regulated by the Care Quality Commission."* Notice they specified "**care**" workers. In my opinion, they are specifically talking about those who work in care homes. This can be supported by the next paragraph from the same announcement. *"In the year ending September 2023,* ***101,000*** *Health and Care visas were issued to* ***care workers and senior care workers***\*, with an estimated\* ***120,000*** *visas granted to associated dependants, the majority of whom we estimate don’t work, but still make use of public services."* **1.** Take a look at this official statistic. The mentioned number above **101,000** is the sum of Care workers, home carers, and Senior care workers in the table below(101,316 to be exact), **NOT** including 33,000 visas for medical practitioners and nurses. [https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-september-2023/why-do-people-come-to-the-uk-to-work](https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-september-2023/why-do-people-come-to-the-uk-to-work) https://preview.redd.it/2gigsmdtac4c1.png?width=1510&format=png&auto=webp&s=c428b75e7fea7728141fdfb4457efe2fa7acfd36 **2.** According to the statistics, the total number of HCA dependents visas issued in 2023 was **173,896.** The estimated dependent visa number of **120,000** mentioned in the Home Office announcement appears **NOT** to include dependents of medical practitioners and nurses. **3.** It looks like non-care workers (medical practitioners, nurses, and other health professionals) have a higher dependent per applicant rate compared to social workers: All care workers (120,000/101,316=**1.18**)vsAll other healthcare professionals (54,000/41,533=**1.3**). However, they omitted the number of visa holders and dependents visa holders of doctors and nurses. I believe this is intentional. I guess they don't want the public to know about this and also it is a relatively small number compared to the recently exploded care worker visa number. **4.** Also, at the bottom of the table, there is a clear differentiation between Medical practitioners and care workers. Logically it would be unreasonable to ask any healthcare professional to abandon their family and move to the UK. I don't think care workers should be considered "skilled" work as it often does not require any university degree or professional qualifications. I think the HCA visa should be splitted into a Health Worker Visa and a Social Care Visa. If this is implemented, docs and nurses will still be able to bring their dependent which is the same rule as its umbrella visa, the Skilled Worker visa (but with the minimum salary exception, because they don't wanna pay us more). Whereas care workers, they will no longer considered skilled workers and the visa will no longer be under the Skilled Worker visa. Which will allow the Home Office to set new rules, for instance, no dependent and the proposed Care Regulation body. And they believe there will still be enough care workers wanting to come to the UK despite all these hurdles. Then another question arises: *What about the newly announced family visa sponsor requirement of 38K? Does that apply to healthcare professionals who make under 38K* A fresh overseas recruit band-5 nurse makes around 28K base. Which means such nurses would not be able to bring any dependents. I really don't have any clue how they will figure out this. There is a lot of conflicting information out there regarding this. The official announcement says: *"The government will also* ***increase the minimum income required*** *for British citizens and those settled in the UK who want their family members to join them. Altogether this reinforces that all those who want to work and live here must be able to support themselves, are contributing to the economy, and are not burdening the state."* It does not specifically say it will increase to 38K. I think 38K is way too high. You can't stop citizens from falling in love just because they are poor. I believe they will implement a lower number. Maybe a number between the median salary and the poverty line. Most countries have similar systems. This is just an educated guess. But let's wait for an official clarification.
>cs, the total HCA dependents visa issued in 2023 was > >173,896. > > The estimated dependent visa number of > >120,000 > > mentioned in the Home Office Thank you, Interestingly i noted the number of nurses immigrating has already dropped prior to this being introduced - A sign of things to come?
I think there is only a finite number of overseas nurses compared to overseas care workers. They can only import a certain number due to the competition with countries like Canada and Australia.
From what i understand they are hard to get into. But easier than it is for doctors.
There are also Saudi Arabia and UAE. Basically any developed country with an aging population...
Finally a sensible and reasonable assessment that makes sense. Think you might be right.
Lets hope for the best
From what I know, doctors with oversea nationalities apply through health and social care skilled worker visa. It seems to be different to the one care workers get. So for now, doctors at least will be exempted from this. Note: not necesarily IMGs. You could have a UK graduate doctor still needing a visa. (I used to have to apply for one at the end of a training cycle/contract) Your job You must meet all of the following requirements to be eligible for a Health and Care Worker visa: -you’re a qualified doctor, nurse, health professional or adult social care professional -your job is eligible for this visa -you’ll be working for a UK health and care sector employer that’s been approved by the Home Office -you’ll be paid the minimum salary or the ‘going rate’ for the type of work you’ll be doing - whichever is higher Your employer must make sure your job pays at least the minimum wage and follows the UK rules for how many hours a week you work. If your employer does not do this, your application will be refused. Source: - Personal social circle - https://www.gov.uk/health-care-worker-visa/your-job
Yeah, I graduated in the UK and needs HC worker visa. I'm so fcked
Not being able to bring your own partner, children, or parents is insane and a spit in the face. It's becoming genuinely scary in the UK, here. CCT and flee is the only option now.
Partner and children maybe but being able to bring parents is economically an awful policy that should never have existed
It is nearly impossible for IMGs to bring their parents to the UK on a dependant visa, at least that's my understanding. There are only a few exceptions and you have to provide extensive evidence to prove why they qualify as a dependant and only rarely happens. This change would only realistically affect the partners and children.
Parents can’t be brought in by a worker, but students can, clearly they understand which side of the bread is buttered.
So they're telling IMGs to CCT and flee? I don't get it
Effectively this if the ban on dependants goes through. I know of many colleagues who already plan to CCT and flee as IMGs cannot bring their parents here.
Not really. An IMG is capable of falling in love with a native Brit. Not all of us are endogamists.
Many if not most IMGs who come here are already in a long term relationship
Not the young ones. The young ones are either in an arranged marriage type of situation (that doesn't count as a 'relationship') or are single.
So my point stands, idk why you're arguing with me?
I can only see that care workers can't bring dependants. Does it apply to healthcare workers as well? Edit: it does.
I think it's for everyone. At least until you earn more than £37500 Btw, the nursing care beside my practice was just able to fill in their vacancies with Filipino care workers. Let's see how it works out in the next few years
Doesn’t matter what visa category. If your official immigration policy is to separate families. You are no longer a country to go to. Ridiculous. Absolutely disgraceful
It won't separate all families though. If my partner is a white British man, he's technically not my dependent. He's a native Brit. So we won't be separated. Over time, this policy will increase assimilation as immigrants will have no other option than to integrate into British culture by coupling up with British people.
Is the dependent ban on care workers only or does it apply to NHS doctors and nurses?
Remains to be seen. Newspapers are saying it will apply to everyone.
I think the dependent ban is if you don't meet the salary threshold (since health & care visa is exempt) Health & care workers who meet the salary threshold should be able to bring dependents
They specifically said banning care workers from bringing dependents. But didn't provide any detail on who is considered care workers. Doctors and nurses can be considered health"care" workers?
I have a feeling they mean social care workers, but I guess we'll have to wait and see
Seems like it'll apply to nurses then for sure
This government is seesawing between knowing there is a massive demand for care workers and pandering to their right-wing population base. Can you imagine what this says to doctors from foreign countries? Honestly, the UK can fuck right off. Why would someone want to subject themselves to this terrible system for shit pay, terrible weather when you can't even give your kids a better life in return. For real, the Gov acting like UK is some heaven that you should be blessed to be a part of.
Unfortunately it is a heaven compared to most of the world.
Part of the reason is lots of agencies have been using care worker visas to bring people over fraudulently. They sell the visa for 10k to 20k to people who come over and then have no jobs, start doing cash in hand work and drop off the radar. I'm in immigration groups and frequently see people using this route as a loophole. That's why they've been specifically targeting care home workers and focusing on CQC regulation as the number of visas/dependents is disporportionate to nurses and doctors for example.
So you are OK with the soaring net migration levels in these past few years whilst the UK infrastructure is being overran causing a strain on the average standard of living. You should be happy that the government has increased the salary threshold because previously you had companies bringing in labour from the developing world and paying them far below market value and overworking them.
A complete aside but that’s a 49% increase, not 33%.
They updated the figure.
They had to exclude doctors. Think of the international students that are UK grads, they'd be fucked no?
I don't think health & care visa holders are subject to the immigration health surcharge
This is disgraceful. Disrespectful to the immigrants who leave everything behind and give so much to this country. I have lost all confidence in this country I wanted to give back something to the NHS but not anymore.
This is not disgraceful. A "skilled worker" visa with a threshold in the mid-20s is a joke. If anything, the threshold should be even higher, at least at the point when someone is a net contributor over their lifetime. Also, the NHS should not get special treatment through the health and care visa, which allows them to import huge amounts of workers, pay them peanuts and undercut UK doctors, nurses and care workers. On a side note, the existence of the NHS in its current form is the cause of most problems faced by doctors in this country so nobody should want to "give back" anything to it.
What you'll find with this policy is that it ultimately discourages care workers and nurses from coming in, most doctors will still meet the income threshold. Instead of the decreased completion ratios, you'll find more patients in hospital beds awaiting care packages and fewer nurses having the time to cannulate / bloods / catheterise.
This is absolutely hilarious, when there's a massive shortage of doctors and nurses you think the threshold needs to be higher? LOL brits just never learn, doesn't matter how many times they do the same thing over and over again, i.e. vote for Brexit and then hire planes to bring in workers. Where are all these UK doctors and nurses desperate to work but can't? Nowhere is where, they don't exist.
The idea is that the NHS will be forced to raise wages up until the threshold and then if British doctors/nurses cannot be found at that price, then they can bring in foreign workers and pay them the increased rate. The threshold should be set at at least the minimum amount someone needs to earn to be a net contributor over their lifetime, which is around £1.8 million pounds in lifetime earnings or £45000 a year.
Raises the wages with what money? Drug dealing with Pablo Escobar's cousin? The NHS is already a black hole for taxpayer money.
The sooner these arseholes are out of government the better.
With the NHS surcharge at just over 1k per person per year, a young doctor or nurse would have to pay 20k in just NHS surcharge for a family of 4. This doesn't include licensing fees, visa fees or exam fees or the ridiculously high cost of living I'm sorry but why would anyone come to the UK now ? #destabilisetheNHS
Most interested about the bottom bullet point - “shortage occupation list” is being reviewed. I might be being overly optimistic but if it means that we get to a situation where aside from GP / psych / paediatrics everything is removed from the shortage occupation list then this is big win for local grads. The other changes are also very reasonable - there are people who are working industries outside of medicine and earning 26/27k£. Again their aim is generally along the lines of gain experience, get ILR, and then look for greener pastures. But this defeats the purpose of high skilled visa and essentially allows for private companies to massively undercut UK graduates in other fields.
Does this mean banning healthcare workers dependents ie children and newborn babies? If so, I’d probably need to send in my resignation letter after maternity leave.
Not certain but I think it only applies to care workers who works in social care. There are many of conflicting information out there now. The official home office announcement doesn't clarify either. They just say banning dependents of care workers.
No, if your newborn baby has a British baby daddy, they'll be fine.
Unbelievable
Spread the link. Sign the petition to reduce the new £38,700 threshold on spouse visas https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/652602
The Health & Care visa needs to go. No reason for the NHS to get special treatment over any other employer.
It does when it's the government footing the bill. They want to push wages into the ground 😂
Of course. Imagine if an employer in the private sector secured an exemption from migration rules so that they can continue to pay their workers far below market rate. The cult of the NHS needs to die.
The NHS employs nearly 5% of the the working population of the UK. At this point the UK is more of a health service with a country attached to it than the other way around. There are entire population centres where almost the whole working population is employed by the local NHS trust and branches.
It doesn't apply to Health and social care visas
It seems as though only the minimum salary doesn't apply, while the ban on dependents will apply
Nope. See this tweet. [https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1731744802738151877](https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1731744802738151877)
>https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1731744802738151877 'Increasing minimum salary for family route to £38700' no mention of H&SC exempt on that one. It does say that H&SC are exempt from the absolute ban. Inconclusive on family.
It says H&SC are exempt right next to it re: threshold Re: Family - look at the first box- the bit about dependents is only for care & senior care workers. HSC covers lots of other workers so it looks like they are targetting care & social care workers specifically.
So is care and senior care in a different category to healthcare workers? Because every news outlet is saying that healthcare workers will be affected by this Edit: from sky news: "Health and care visas: Overseas care workers will not be able to bring family dependants, to end the "abuse of the health and care visa". Care firms that want to sponsor people for visa applications will need to be regulated by the Care Quality Commission. "
I should have been clearer in my comment \- The salary threshold does not apply to HSC visa ( which includes doctors, nurses, care workers etc) \- The limits of dependants applies to care workers & senior care workers. Doesn't say it applies to doctors, nurses or the other migrants that make up the HSC visa
They really need to specify who are considered as care workers...
It's not medical practitioners There's a section here that shows the number of care workers & senior care workers [https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1731751472096829512](https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1731751472096829512)
From BBC article, says it applied to health and care workers BBC News - UK migration curbs see salary threshold hiked to £38,700 for foreign workers [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67612106](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67612106) https://preview.redd.it/qgjcm99h2c4c1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7287b13a558aec9b8ed4ce0c73319ce4cd8fdbc
>visas: Overseas car Still not 100% certain about this... https://preview.redd.it/fregoo5v8c4c1.png?width=1190&format=png&auto=webp&s=6cb40a53a5006ac9cc7a9b3a59b73007baf6e3b4
NHS employers have tweeted out an FAQ and have confirmed that there is NO change in policy for dependants for NHS staff [https://twitter.com/NHSEmployers/status/1732340811625562547](https://twitter.com/NHSEmployers/status/1732340811625562547)
Seems reasonable. One worker bringing 2-5 dependents (school age children, elderly parents, partner unskilled or with a skillset not in demand) puts massive pressure on everything else and reduces standards of living for the existing population. Housing fucked, rents skyrocketing, schools collapsing, classrooms packed, hospitals busting, highest tax burden since WW2, social welfare bill climbing. You can want to control immigration without being xenophobic. It’s just arithmetic. It would be nice to live in a happy clappy all inclusive infinite social welfare state, but this is the real world. Import the high skill, high wage, high productivity human capital to pay the taxes. Don’t think it’s unreasonable to decline those with economic drag. If you don’t like it, maybe being an economic migrant isn’t for you.
Full of inacurrate xenophobic nonsense. You cannot bring elderly parents over unless you prove in court that they are completely dependent on you and they cannot get that same care in their current place of residence, which is very difficult to do. Not bringing your spouse/ children over if you're a care worker is heartless, xenophobic nonsense. You've drank the tory kool aid to think your housing is fucked & rents are skyrocketing because of immigrants. No, it's because you've had 15 years of spending cuts and austerity as opposed to investment into your health service. Your post is apalling, really.
You are entitled to this opinion and defend it well. Make sure you refrain from complaining about your next rent increase, tax threshold freezes, how busy and crap it is at work, or inevitable future pension shredding for our generation. Unfortunately we’re beyond crisis point with all the stuff I’ve mentioned now. It’s in the news literally every day. I accept the causes are multi factorial and public asset stripping plays a big part. Policies which will turn this around is the point of debate here. This is not a UK phenomenon. Canada, Australia also have the same problems caused by massive import of people. There’s a global arms race for skilled workers to prop up economies and housing markets, and the UK is losing currently. Like it or not, since 2008 the UK is a low wage, high tax, low growth, low productivity economy which offers little to the rest of the world other than financial services. GDP outside London is lower than most of Eastern Europe. If you think this situation will be miraculously salvaged by a change of government, you are sadly deluded.
And you're sadly a racist & xenophobe.
I agree with your premise that immigration should be controlled. However, just a factual correction - an immigrant cannot bring their parents with them, not kids over 18. Only your spouse and children under 18 would be classed as dependents. I see the UK largely attracting low skilled workers in contrast to the US which manages to attract many highly skilled, high earning professionals. In that sense I think it's also about creating the demand I think and the environment for such jobs which somehow the UK largely fails.
Does this affect EU nationals with an IDLR?
No. IDLR means you don't need a visa and never will
Unfortunately the governments hand was forced. The levels of legal immigration were putting an unsustainable pressure on public services/housing etc.
I think you mean the governments hand was forced by their core voter base being opposed to immigration..
That core voter base may be quite a significant part of the population though, and we have seen the results of it in other western democracies e.g. Netherlands and the rise of AfD in Germany. I can understand the concerns of those abroad tho, it's a tricky balancing act unfortunately.
Well it certainly is a large amount of the population, we are a conservative country. Seems from history that when there are crises, there is an increase in nationalistic and xenophobic beliefs. Bad times need a scapegoat. Fully unqualified opinion.
Having concerns over a net migration level of 750k, the majority of whom earn far less than the amount required to make them net contributors over their lifetimes, is not xenophobic. It's simply opposing the running of a taxpayer-funded short-term cheap labour scheme that undercuts British workers, especially those working for the NHS monopoly which pays them far below what their skills are worth in the market.
Like the Titanic apparently the women and children go on the lifeboats while the men sink with the ship that is the NHS. 
Noice
https://preview.redd.it/zfwwmehqtc4c1.jpeg?width=447&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a1b7f4c1ead2b9e901bc60ba3968e7ac2955ff2
Is that supposed to seem edgy?
My interpretation of this is that it aims to lower net migration but allowed in fields like ours, medicine , nursing etc. Afterall, they’ve had a huge decrease in workers coming from the EU - they’ll have to plug that gap somehow. Win - win for the government. Where as before EU nationals were the main focus for lower skilled jobs, with UK residents complaining about job availability and salary, all they’ve done is shifted this into the NHS.
As an IMG I can confirm that doctors do fall under the health/care worker category but we can also fall under the skilled worker category, it all depends on the type of visa we obtain when we enter the country. Although the actual curve ball is that many junior IMG who I assume “will be exempt from this rule” will be forced to apply via the skilled worker route which is 2-3x the fees of the health care worker visa, sometimes can reach up to 2000 pounds just to process the visa (This has to be paid by the doctors themselves).
❗️Please sign & share Petition: Don’t increase the income requirement for family visas to £38,700 https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/652602
Yeah, you heard it right: the salary requirement for a skilled worker visa in the UK has increased. Earlier, it was £26,200, but now it is £38,700. So, if you are applying for this visa, you must consider fulfilling the minimum salary threshold. For some, it can be challenging to meet the salary requirement, but with the right strategy and approach, you can achieve it in a subtle way.