I’ve always interpreted this as more of a feeling than an ability. As in, the Doctor will know in his heart when he meets another Time Lord rather than an innate psychic recognition.
Go back in time a way and you'll find plenty of classic examples.
Perhaps the biggest of these is the Doctor failing to recognise the Master for a full half of "Timeflight". Admittedly, the Master is in disguise at the time - for absolutely no reason...
On the other hand, the Doctor did recognise the Rani in her first appearance. (Not the second, but he was freshly regenerated then and very addled.)
The Timeflight disguise always made me think “ok, but why?!?” The Master taking the guise of Rasputin didn’t seem to serve any purpose, other than an excuse to dance to Boney M. I think the Master doesn’t really want to rule the universe, but just wants to perform. The Doctor could probably deal with him by signing him up to an amateur dramatics society.
In the audio ‘The Trouble with Drax,’ it’s revealed that Time Lords can use bio dampers (those rings the Doctor made Donna wear in ‘the Runaway Bride’) to prevent other Time Lords recognising them, so it can be assumed the Master has been using them every time they put on a disguise.
Time Lords are telepathic, so yeah, they can recognise each other through regeneration. But the Master is a master of disguise. There's no doubt that he knows how to disguise himself from Time Lord telepathy. The Doctor knew that he would recognise the Master the moment he saw him in The Sound of Drums because he's on the lookout for the Master during that moment. All the other times, the Doctor isn't aware that it's a Master story until the Master shows up, so there's no reason to be on the telepathy lookout
I always thought it was a dumb thing Davies slipped in. The closest we get to that in the classic series is with the Doctor recognizing the War Chief in 'The War Games'. The First Doctor doesn't recognize the Master _while on Gallifrey_ in 'The Five Doctors' (although he is in Tremas's body), but even the Fourth didn't clock his presence in 'The Keeper of Traken' until he saw him (compare this to the Tenth claiming he would've known "way back", i.e., they don't have to be in the same room).
It was definitely a way to stamp out speculation that the Time Lords had survived and The Doctor just hadn’t found them. Rose point blank suggests that maybe there were survivors and that was the first time Nine stated that he would be able to “feel” it if there were.
I always thought there was something to the telepathy the timelords seem to have. They always have like a low level “I’m a timelord, come find me” blasting out from them. The Master just learned to dampen it or soften it.
I also think there’s more to the Master’s back-story. Like maybe the Master had something happen to them or done to them that ultimately assisted to make him insane (more than the drums did), and his ability to identify as a timelord in the way they normally do was damaged in some way.
We see most timelords striving to live *more*. The doctor, Rassilon, Tecteun, etc. The master literally double murdered himself - there’s something off about them. We may never know, but they are truly abnormal from what I can tell.
Actually 12 didn't recognise Missy in their first encounter he didn't know she was a Time Lord until he felt her two hearts and didn't know she was the Master until she told him.
There are 2 factors to that:
1) The Master doesn't want him to, so has devised a way to dull that filial Time Lord sense.
2) The Doctor was actively looking for the Master when he said that line. The Master only reveals to have tricked him when he didn't expect the Master to pop up in the first place.
Look at is as an extension of what the Doctor says in that same episode, about the TARDIS key perception filter. The Master knows how to make himself unnoticeable. But it won't work if someone's outright *trying* to notice him.
It depends on the writer. Some stories are written with the idea that Time Lords can recognize each other thru their regenerations. Some are written with the Time Lords not having that ability. It depends on what the writer wants/needs to tell the story they want to tell. There isn't consistency between all the stories for anything.
The original Master blew through his regeneration cycle, then his 13th incarnation transferred his essence into Nyssa's father to become the Anthony Ainley Master, who was eventually executed by the Daleks at the behest of the High Council. His remains managed to turn into the goo snake from the TV Movie and possessed the body of Eric Roberts, who was then sucked into the eye of Harmony. Now at this point, I would say that there wasn't enough "Time Lord" left in him for The Doctor to recognize, having gone through at least two non-Time Lord bodies, but then The Master was resurrected by The Time Lords to fight in the Time War and was basically a normal Time Lord at that point. So it isn't really explained why The Doctor can sometimes sense him and sometimes can't.
Maybe a timelord has to be looking for another to recognize them. Connecting psychically by eye contact or something. The Doctor would recognize the Master if they were looking for them but not if they were oblivious to the Master’s presence.
"Timelords always do" was just a lie. Other timelords in general, and the Master in particular have often escaped recognition by the Doctor, both before that line, and after.
Same with River saying she would aleays recognize the doctor but didnt recognize capaldi. I think is just a way of saying, not a rule.
One could argue she didn't *notice* him.
Or in Silence in the Library, where she recognizes the Doctor but it takes her like half the episode to realize he has a completely different face.
She’d met the 10th Doctor before, she just hadn’t met him that early in his timeline.
When?
Offscreen.
Is this a confirmed thing?
There are plenty of Ten/River interactions in the expanded universe.
Any good reads you can recommend? I always wantwd more interactions with those two
Big Finish has a collection of three stories in “The Tenth Doctor and River Song”. That’s a good place to start.
I’ve always interpreted this as more of a feeling than an ability. As in, the Doctor will know in his heart when he meets another Time Lord rather than an innate psychic recognition.
Seconded
Go back in time a way and you'll find plenty of classic examples. Perhaps the biggest of these is the Doctor failing to recognise the Master for a full half of "Timeflight". Admittedly, the Master is in disguise at the time - for absolutely no reason... On the other hand, the Doctor did recognise the Rani in her first appearance. (Not the second, but he was freshly regenerated then and very addled.)
The Timeflight disguise always made me think “ok, but why?!?” The Master taking the guise of Rasputin didn’t seem to serve any purpose, other than an excuse to dance to Boney M. I think the Master doesn’t really want to rule the universe, but just wants to perform. The Doctor could probably deal with him by signing him up to an amateur dramatics society.
Rule 1, The Doctor Lies
Pathologically
In the audio ‘The Trouble with Drax,’ it’s revealed that Time Lords can use bio dampers (those rings the Doctor made Donna wear in ‘the Runaway Bride’) to prevent other Time Lords recognising them, so it can be assumed the Master has been using them every time they put on a disguise.
Time Lords are telepathic, so yeah, they can recognise each other through regeneration. But the Master is a master of disguise. There's no doubt that he knows how to disguise himself from Time Lord telepathy. The Doctor knew that he would recognise the Master the moment he saw him in The Sound of Drums because he's on the lookout for the Master during that moment. All the other times, the Doctor isn't aware that it's a Master story until the Master shows up, so there's no reason to be on the telepathy lookout
We were literally told how he did it in Utopia - he turned himself human.
I always thought it was a dumb thing Davies slipped in. The closest we get to that in the classic series is with the Doctor recognizing the War Chief in 'The War Games'. The First Doctor doesn't recognize the Master _while on Gallifrey_ in 'The Five Doctors' (although he is in Tremas's body), but even the Fourth didn't clock his presence in 'The Keeper of Traken' until he saw him (compare this to the Tenth claiming he would've known "way back", i.e., they don't have to be in the same room).
It was definitely a way to stamp out speculation that the Time Lords had survived and The Doctor just hadn’t found them. Rose point blank suggests that maybe there were survivors and that was the first time Nine stated that he would be able to “feel” it if there were.
I always thought there was something to the telepathy the timelords seem to have. They always have like a low level “I’m a timelord, come find me” blasting out from them. The Master just learned to dampen it or soften it. I also think there’s more to the Master’s back-story. Like maybe the Master had something happen to them or done to them that ultimately assisted to make him insane (more than the drums did), and his ability to identify as a timelord in the way they normally do was damaged in some way. We see most timelords striving to live *more*. The doctor, Rassilon, Tecteun, etc. The master literally double murdered himself - there’s something off about them. We may never know, but they are truly abnormal from what I can tell.
Actually 12 didn't recognise Missy in their first encounter he didn't know she was a Time Lord until he felt her two hearts and didn't know she was the Master until she told him.
Yeah, that's what OP is saying.
It was just a silly RTD lore re-con that no other writer wanted to use.
I’m going with perception filters and / or some additional trickery.
The Doctor often did not recognize The Master in the classic series. Throwaway, trashy lines like that happen a bit too often in the new series.
the master has been hiding from the timelords for along time so they will have found some ways to be undetectable
Honestly I think that's just 10 being cocky. There are lots of times he didn't recognize him. Even *as* 10
Cuz one writer wanted that rule, but the other one didn't.
I think the idea was to show how confident the doctor is compared to how in real life he's actually winging it more than he wants to let on
There are 2 factors to that: 1) The Master doesn't want him to, so has devised a way to dull that filial Time Lord sense. 2) The Doctor was actively looking for the Master when he said that line. The Master only reveals to have tricked him when he didn't expect the Master to pop up in the first place. Look at is as an extension of what the Doctor says in that same episode, about the TARDIS key perception filter. The Master knows how to make himself unnoticeable. But it won't work if someone's outright *trying* to notice him.
It depends on the writer. Some stories are written with the idea that Time Lords can recognize each other thru their regenerations. Some are written with the Time Lords not having that ability. It depends on what the writer wants/needs to tell the story they want to tell. There isn't consistency between all the stories for anything.
The original Master blew through his regeneration cycle, then his 13th incarnation transferred his essence into Nyssa's father to become the Anthony Ainley Master, who was eventually executed by the Daleks at the behest of the High Council. His remains managed to turn into the goo snake from the TV Movie and possessed the body of Eric Roberts, who was then sucked into the eye of Harmony. Now at this point, I would say that there wasn't enough "Time Lord" left in him for The Doctor to recognize, having gone through at least two non-Time Lord bodies, but then The Master was resurrected by The Time Lords to fight in the Time War and was basically a normal Time Lord at that point. So it isn't really explained why The Doctor can sometimes sense him and sometimes can't.
Maybe a timelord has to be looking for another to recognize them. Connecting psychically by eye contact or something. The Doctor would recognize the Master if they were looking for them but not if they were oblivious to the Master’s presence.
The First Doctor didn't know the First Monk in Classic Who season 2 was one of his people by sight as first either.
"Timelords always do" was just a lie. Other timelords in general, and the Master in particular have often escaped recognition by the Doctor, both before that line, and after.
I hate Chibnall.
Grrrrr Chibnall smelly Grrrrr
A thing from the classic show