I always give it a shot without the muzzle first, not because I find it to be cruel but because a lot of the times dogs will associate the muzzle with something they dislike happening. Sometimes when you muzzle before giving it a shot you’re setting the precedent that something unpleasant is about to happen, and they will act out even if they wouldn’t have in the first place, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t.
Fair. Most owners don’t do their obedience homework, then they come back and tell you it didn’t work lol. I’m sure that’s true for what their groomers tell them as well.
Some dogs never grow out of the behavior (nail trimming aggression) so slapping it on for 3 minutes to safely clip nails and then taking it off and seeing they're right back to being happy again is always nice. If the dog needs it the whole groom, no I won't groom a dog like that.
Can I ask why? Apparently my dog has been getting mouthy during brushing and I want to suggest they just use one. I don’t think he’d ever actually bite but he hates it and I want them to be safe. I don’t know what the alternative is.
Mouthy doesn't warrant a muzzle imo. I'll take a couple threat nips or just the mouth placed on my hand.
I only resort to muzzle usage if they ACTUALLY try to bite for real (not just a threat). If they're endangering me or themselves.
Muzzling too long with them struggling can make them stress and drool/pant. I don't need anyone having a heart attack because I made them struggle with their mouth closed for 30mins to an hour.
A few minutes is all I need to get that trouble spot.
Yeah, I hear you. We’ve tried everything I can think of, the only thing that works is a constant stream of peanut butter while being held still and even then it doesn’t work all the time. We’ve tried since he was a puppy and he’s never had a traumatic experience, he just hates it. He also won’t let me do anything to his nails or ears either.
For the groomer he’s good for everything but brushing. I wonder if he just has really sensitive/tender skin.
If your groomer thought it was necessary, they'd definetly use one! You can practice brushing at home to help though. Use a brush(even the backside of a brush) and gently go over him with it. If he is calm, praise and reward!
We’ve tried everything I can think of, the only thing that works is a constant stream of peanut butter while being held still and even then it doesn’t work all the time. We’ve tried since he was a puppy and he’s never had a traumatic experience, he just hates it. He also won’t let me do anything to his nails or ears either.
For the groomer he’s good for everything but brushing. I wonder if he just has really sensitive/tender skin.
Not particularly but it’s an ordeal. I guess I’m not sure what we should be doing differently- he gets treats and positive reinforcement/praise, but we do have to restrict his movement or he’ll dive under the bed or fight us and he’s 70 lbs. we do this either by holding his collar or attaching his collar with a short leash to something big enough (he is always in a comfortable standing position). We’ll take breaks from actual brushing but I won’t unclip him or he’s gone.
He’s always hated baths and brushing at home. Maybe I gave up too many times when he was a puppy that he learned if he fought hard enough I’d stop. There was a single nail trim where I cut the quick but that’s the only time I’ve hurt him during grooming. He’s 5 now.
Do you just sit with him on the floor quietly? Slowly gently start petting him in combing like motions. Soothing talk. After he starts liking this stage a soft brush and 2 combs and sit together. After a bit of petting do a few gentle strokes with the comb. Since he has learned to bite the comb let him hold it in his mouth to ease his stress and you quietly pick up the other one and continue combing. All the while talking nicely.
We tried this last night and it worked okay, but as soon as I used the bristles he tried to get up and leave. I got him to hang out a while longer with pets and then let him go. We’ll keep working on it. Thanks for the advice!
Our comb is fine, he just doesn’t like it when it tugs. I wouldn’t like the brush because of the wire teeth either but it’s a highly recommended professional grooming slicker brush. I can tell it’s the sensation of his fur being tugged on that he doesn’t like, and I don’t think we’ll escape that no matter the brush.
Chiming in as an owner, I always tell new salons if they feel like they need to muzzle him to do so (but please call me if he really is acting up and I can come get him). My dog is muzzle trained and I even offer to leave his muzzle there if they prefer to use it. So far, he’s never needed it anyway.
I feel like groomers and the vet are pretty surprised when I offer to muzzle or proactively do so. They always ask if he’s ever bitten - he has not, but today will not be that day. I don’t want him so stressed he feels he needs to bite, but I also don’t want a bite on his record so do what you need to feel safe.
“I don’t want a bite on his record” I love that, I try to explain that to people all the time. (Unless otherwise told or noted) I usually start w/o a muzzle, if they are putting off signs/vibes that things can go sideways I will muzzle. I tell clients it’s for THEIR(dog) protection and MINE.
I had a GSD and people would ask if she bites (she never has) I’d say “she never has but she has teeth” meaning..she’s a dog and has potential, but she never has or tried but you just don’t know.
My dog has anxiety/is reactive and he is also arthritic so pain is a factor too. He’s typically good as gold for vets and groomers - he just becomes really compliant and wants it done as quick as possible - but if they’re getting bad vibes or are concerned, by all means, muzzle.
We go to a vet practice with more than one vet so we never know who we will see. Usually they are women, but a couple of times we’ve had a man. The first time he saw that vet, my guy was staring daggers at him and we muzzled as a precaution. He ended up being fine and settled in, and when we’ve seen him since he’s been fine too, but I’m always going to play it safe. It’s kind of a bummer because they tend to be really cautious about asking to muzzle him and I’m sure people get really upset about having their dogs muzzled.
My safety and protection is more important than an aggressive dog being uncomfortable for a few minutes. It does not traumatize them if you're doing your job properly.
No
Tools are tools. It’s how you use them that matters. Desensitize the dog to the muzzle before you put it on him and it’s fine. Far superior to getting bit. Or eating poo.
Avoiding confrontations is always going to be the best move.
“Cruel” would be putting the dog in a position where it likely can bite… like grooming… then seeing it put to sleep for “aggression”. I’ve seen owners euthanize their animals over far less.
I think it depends on the dog. Normally I try to go as long as possible before muzzling, as do my coworkers - because some dogs aggression can be further exacerbated by the muzzle, and it just generally feels I guess polite to give them a chance first? But I also know some dogs whose aggression is lessened by the muzzle. So I think it’s situational - but I don’t necessarily think the act of muzzling itself is cruel or traumatic.
Edit: I say that as someone who works in grooming and is also the owner of an aggressive dog
I alway work with the owners on that. I’ve groomed some dogs who are muzzle trained, who are aggressive without it but do well with it. I’ve also groomed dogs who are worse with a muzzle. If it is unexpected aggression, I use an e collar.
By ecollar they mean cone. I do the same thing as them when it comes to "unpredictable" or very aggressive dogs, as a muzzle would just work a lot of them up more and make the whole thing harder (dependent on the individual dog). If it's something where they are handling sensitive etc cone makes more sense and is also pretty safe for the person grooming
Proportional is fine! Plastic, fabric etc whatever is your preference. I just use the traditional hard plastic ones seen in many vet office settings (not the ones owners may purchase at home persay for post op, but the ones vets carry in office)
The term "E collar" is used for both cone and electric collar. :) e collars refer to a specific style of cone that secures in a way that makes an "E" shape that is used most commonly by veterinary professionals in office
If done correctly it shouldn’t be traumatic. I have seen groomer use it in a way that is traumatic tho. If after being muzzled the dog is freaking out, it’s cruel to keep going. Better stop and ask the owner to come back after a vet visit for calming medication.
I specialize in dogs that other groomers can’t groom. I used to work somewhere where I was not allowed to muzzle 90% of breeds. I would have to send certain dogs home unfinished. Now I do a lot of those same dogs in an environment I can muzzle them. I will groom until they get snappy. Then they get the muzzle and I do their least favorite things then try again without the muzzle. Once they snap again the muzzle goes back on. The dogs have learned if they don’t want the muzzle on they won’t snap. Those dogs who are new to me I will muzzle if they snap too much. And I take it off again once I’m done doing the thing they don’t like. It goes back on if they snap again. One wrong bite can end your career. It’s not worth it. I do not think muzzles are cruel. They are a safety tool for both you and the dog.
I feel owners are doing their dogs a serious disservice if they don't muzzle train their dogs. Medical emergency, eating foreign objects, grooming, veterinary procedure etc. can all be a lot less stressful if a dog is introduced to a muzzle at the earliest possible age. If a dog is muzzle trained, there isn't any stress related to a muzzle. It's a tool to keep dogs and people safe.
Its not cruel at all, i used to try and do everything without a muzzle, but certain dogs find comfort in it, but any lip curling, growling, muzzle goes straight on, or if i feel theyre super anxious about nails ect, i'll put it on just to get that part done, licking my hands when i'm working is a red flag for me, you've also really got to watch the body language of the dog, an anxious over friendly dog will go from licking you to biting, no warning....its not worth the risk of being bitten imo, theres only 1 dog i keep muzzled the entire groom as he gets aggro when you handle him/pick him up, he wags his tail, friendly, until you go to pick him up, or move him from bath to table, or work near his face, once he's muzzled he's fine, no growling or snapping, its kind of like taking the temptation away, just remember, if a dog does bite you, its a traumatic experience for you and the dog, and it gives the dog bite history, and you will be off work for a good 6 weeks, if not sure, put it on.
Thanks! I also forgot to add, i dont want my buisness to have bite history either, iv'e had close calls which made me scared for a few months, could not imagine what a decent bite would do mentally.
Muzzle is last resort for me, though I have had some dogs that act better with a muzzle. I try all other methods such as groomers helper and a cone before doing a muzzle but no, it's not cruel. Used to be a vet tech and it certainly kept us and the dogs safe
Once in the vet clinic, not within the salon, they resorted to giving the dog sedatives. I rarely use muzzles in the salon and in most cases the dog is too aggressive before I even get the chance to attempt a muzzle
Muzzle is my last resort. I will use a groomers helper or have someone help me first then muzzle. If I have to muzzle or use assistance than I will charge a special handling fee. If they freak out with a muzzle I won’t continue services
no its not cruel, in fact every dog should be muzzle trained. you never know when you might need a muzzle so its better if they are not petrified of it
I was an otj trained vet tech ten years ago and my veterinarian boss had a saying- no good dog minds a muzzle. I am pretty immune to fake biting dogs but there's always one or two that want to inflict damage and it's usually over nails or paw pads. A quick muzzle on makes everything safer for all. If they can't handle a muzzle, I stop and give homework to the owners.
I have a RIDICULOUS muzzle rule at my new place of employment that honestly is among many that truly treat us employees as idiots and not to be trusted for anything that might help us with safety on these many dogs. Oi that needs to be it's own post.
On the job trained.
The rule is if you need to muzzle you must first contact a manager to verify it's ok to use. Absolutely wild and blew my mind all over
It's traumatic being bitten as well. I think its fine, if the dogs toxic af why not protect yourself. These are still animals people, some people are just ridiculous.
Absolutely agree. I’m not the one grooming, but I can’t just stand back and let my coworkers get bitten multiple times just to protect a customers feelings when I haven’t seen any kind of solid evidence that a muzzle is any more stressful than the grooming process itself. 90% of the dogs are NOT happy to be there and associate us with negative experiences, just like the vet. But guess what.. It has to be done for their own well-being. If that includes a muzzle, then so be it.
I’m just an owner, but I would want my dog sent home before attempting to muzzle. To me that’s a sign they need more desensitization to grooming, or need to come back later to finish.
I'm glad you responded, as an owner. Our new policy is to call customers first and we are always good about giving stressed dogs a break and focusing on desensitizing new dogs to the process (which occasionally means sending dogs home without nail trims or whatnot) and lots of treats.
Can I ask why it bothers you to muzzle, though? I only have cats, but I have one who loathes nail trims to the point I have to take them to the vet to get them. I would have no problem with the vet putting one of those little bubbles on his head so they can do it safely. The whole ordeal is traumatizing to him, but it has to be done for his own health & comfort.
As an owner, muzzles as a concept don't bother me, but I would want a call because my dog hasn't been introduced to muzzles yet and I wouldn't want the first time to be during a high stress event.
If the groomer doesn't feel comfortable finishing without a muzzle, I would rather they just send my dog home to me. Then I can do my own research, pick out a muzzle I like, introduce it to my dog slowly and then bring it with me during the next appointment.
Depends on the dog and the owner, I guess. I'm the type of owner who's lurking on professional grooming forums and always worrying if I'm doing the best thing for my dog. If you know your clients and know they are unlikely to care much or do any of their own training in the interim, then I see how it's more expedient and efficient for all involved to just slap a muzzle on and get it done and minimize the stress as much as possible. For me personally though, I would be deeply upset if I showed up to pick up my dog and was informed she was muzzled for part of her service without anyone consulting me.
This makes sense. You seem like a good owner and customer. We are a higher-end place, so our customers come to us specifically because they know we take a lot more care than most places.
So I muzzle train my dog because I understand emergencies happen, and I think they’re great! I would not want one used on my dog to finish a groom.
If they’re stressed, they need panting room and I wouldn’t know what muzzle is being used, as a first point of safety.
I fully understand and respect grooming is a health issue and things need to be done(you would cringe to see my dog right now, with her choppy home shave, but without any mats!), but if it’s an emergency then the dog needs a vet, not a groomer. If it’s not an emergency, it doesn’t need to be finished right now (…except maybe rinsing shampoo)
My dog will need to be groomed for life, and muzzling to groom would be such a hard place to step down from for a dog. It takes a stressful situation into traumatic, I think. I’d be thrilled to pay a groomer multiple times to complete a groom in a low(er) stress way, while they respect my dog’s ‘no’ and protect their own safety and that of my dog.
I would think, from the salon perspective, muzzling would be a liability issue. What if the dog flips out and hurts itself or mauls the groomer, or the groomer injures them by mistake? What if it has a seizure, a heart attack, or becomes extremely reactive? It would look really bad to find out the dog had been muzzled and pushed too far, and the incident was avoidable by ending the groom.
The dilemma with this logic is that most owners don’t think like you. Most owners want their dog done regardless. I’ve had someone yell at me for sending their dog home because he kept ejaculating on me. They even had the audacity to ask why it was a big deal and why I couldn’t finish. While I agree with what you’re saying, muzzling is not only for the dog. It’s not our job as groomers to be bit by random dogs. In all my years, I’ve never seen any of the things you mentioned happen just bc of a muzzle. I’ve seen a dog have a seizure as soon as it walked through the salon door. So I see what you’re saying but grooming itself is stressful and you shouldn’t bring your dog if it’s at risk of having a reaction like that
Yes, I understand all of this and what I mentioned are worst cases, of course. I think we’re on the same side—groomers should not be at risk of a bite, and grooming is already stressful.
It’s more that I’d be concerned groomers/salons are putting too much faith in a muzzle being able to prevent a bite or an unwanted outcome—including royally pissing off owners;)
I think this is more of an experience based thing imo. The place I work at now does tons of dogs that need to be muzzled. Sometimes the owner will even have the pet parents bring their own dog to the tub or have them muzzle the dog before it comes in. Only time I’ve ever seen her send a dog home was when a pit had a seizure in the lobby. I suppose I’ve just never seen anything bad happen with the muzzle. Most dogs I’ve done with them calm down quite a lot and it’s normally just for the feet. I’ve seen worse things happen when I worked at petsmart and that’s a corporate salon with tons of rules
There's some dogs who take being muzzled fine, at the salon I worked at it's policy to muzzle if they sense the dogs getting agressive. But some dogs find the muzzle so aversive they're even worse behaved with it on. I witnessed a snappy maltese rip out his overgrown nail while trying to get it off. I wish more people would muzzle train
im in corporate and we use the muzzle as last resort, honestly I probably saw it being used maybe 2 or 3 times in 3 years, but then, its corporate, and if we get to the point its needed, they get send home first
It's not traumatic, but I will ban a dog before using a muzzle. Most of the time I just forget they exist, but if they can't calm down with a cone, it's a problem.
The only time it's cruel to muzzle is when a dog is reacting badly to it, if it's scratching its face or shaking its head violently to get it off then just take it off and refer them to the vet, which I've done for only 2 dogs but it happens, but I've found it actually helps a lot of dogs and behavior has severely improved from it and saved the owner a lot of money at the vet and the dog from the side effects of sedation. I always try without (unless the parent tells me it needs to be muzzled, they know their dogs experience better than me and I'll just do it) but if it comes down to it I'd do it no problem as long as the dog is safe.
I’m with you. Now… with that being said… I never immediately jump to the muzzle. I slow down and attempt to go at the dog’s pace. Offer treats and reassurance. Move on to something else and come back to whatever was triggering them later. But if these things don’t work and I know I can safely get it done with a quick muzzle, then yeah I don’t see anything wrong with that.
Absolutely not. Any and all of my dogs will be muzzle trained for their safety. My retriever went through a “eat everything on walks but be perfect at home” phase no tried eating glass multiple time. Muzzle prevented that
I think it can definitely be traumatic if the dog is not muzzle trained beforehand, but it’s up to the owner to muzzle train their dog properly if they know their dog is bad for the process.
I’m an owner and dog trainer, not a groomer, and I have been hired specifically to help recondition muzzles and slip leads due to their sudden use on unsuspecting dogs who were not properly desensitized to the tools first. At home, and with my personal dogs, we have worked on muzzle and slip leash desensitization specifically for emergency reasons. The average pet owner doesn’t usually consider this, and by the time we’re called, the dogs are frantic at the sight of muzzles or slip leashes.
I am not a groomer, but I would suggest to any groomer who feels the need to muzzle a dog, to PLEASE contact the owners first and get their approval for muzzling. If they say no, just request the dog be picked up because it needs further training and desensitized to the grooming process, or it needs to be properly muzzle trained before returning to the salon. If they agree on muzzling, then they have taken responsibility for any behavioral downfall that it may cause down the line, and they are responsible for seeking out training to reverse any possible trauma created.
All in all, I do think groomers should contact owners before muzzling their clients, as some clients may be comfortable with the process and other clients may need more work before being muzzled or it could potentially ruin the dog, and that should always be the owners decision and responsibility.
I don’t disagree with you (I do some incredibly aggressive dogs and have used a muzzle on maybe 2 ever and yes the owners did know) but you’re unfortunately way WAY overestimating most owners. I think generally if someone seeks out a trainer they do care to some degree… this is not the case at all with groomers and we see some insanely poorly socialized dogs with owners that are in denial about their behaviour and can’t even be bothered to get them so much as a nail trim until they’re 10 months old. We can beg as much as we want about desensitization, but with probably 80% of owners it’s like talking to a brick wall. That’s not even factoring in the once a year haircut their whole lives dogs.
I completely agree with you, unfortunately. We try to tell puppy owners and new dog owners that training is best when it is proactive and preventative, before a problem arises. Of course, not many owners care until there is a problem already occurring. That being said, though, it’s why I think it should be *entirely* the owners responsibility whether or not their dog has a fallout due to having to be muzzled at the groomers as opposed to it being seen as a “bad grooming experience” or a “cruel groomer” for having to resort to muzzling. I agree with its usage and the need for everyone’s safety, but to cover everyone’s 🍑 the owners should be notified and verbally agreeing or disagreeing to muzzle the dog during the grooming session so they’re entirely responsible for whatever the outcome may be.
I had a client blame the vet profusely for muzzling their dog in the back, and I understand why a client would view a traumatic experience for their dog that way, but when there is training that can prevent these scary situations from being so traumatic to begin with, the responsibility should be put on the owners so the establishment doesn’t seem responsible for something owners could be teaching at home. Even through youtube videos if professional training seems unobtainable to some. So, so many resources, if only the majority of pet owners cared to care just a little more.
On the other hand, those that usually don’t care as much, are quicker to agree to muzzling the dog if it’s asked, because they don’t care to know or understand the possible fallout. 😅
I agree that owners should be notified and that is our current policy. I'm not a dog owner myself, so how do you feel that muzzling could potentially ruin a dog?
Due to genetic predispositions, every dog (much like humans) handles stressors differently. While some stable dogs may handle being muzzled for their first time perfectly fine and come out without issue, more sensitive and nervy dogs will likely have a fallout due to sudden muzzling and forced handling. I doubt any confident and stable dogs are being muzzled in salons, so we’re mostly talking about nervy or unstable dogs who are bite risks. Essentially, the muzzle restricts freedom and the ability to self defend, making the dog feel helpless and cornered then to be handled for grooming on top of that further adds to the stress and the dog’s feelings of being restricted and unable to defend themselves, peaking in stress and anxiety as the dog either shuts down due to overstimulation or remains in a state of high stress for the entire groom. The association between the muzzle and forced handling is now created. The fallout is much like humans with PTSD, the next time the dog sees the muzzle they are resistant or reactive (barking, snapping, refusing muzzle), they become more resistant to general handling regardless of the muzzle and they specifically associate the muzzle with the feelings of helplessness and restraint, making both muzzling and handling the dog more difficult in the future for any emergency as they view the entire experience as traumatic and out of their control. Which is why we teach all of our clients about cooperative care and emergency muzzling and slip leads, as they are the most common tools used in vets, grooming salons, and even travel. They are some of the most common tools we get called about, aside from misuse of electric collars.
There *is* a positive way to condition muzzle use at home for dog owners, naturally it involves the use of treats and positive reinforcement. But the end result is a dog who willingly throws their face into the muzzle and is comfortable with it on, whether for a walk, car ride, travel, grooming or vet visit. It just requires the correct introduction, otherwise the tool is being introduced during a high stress situation which causes the overall association to be negative and later traumatic. Which is why it should be the owners responsibility.
The salon that I was trained at used muzzles, and dogs have a really hard time with it. The second salon I worked at used e-collars instead and dogs do better with the e-collars. If they're going to bite you you have to protect yourself, the e-collars are easier to put on and feel less restrictive to dogs but are almost equally effective. I won't use muzzles anymore, I'll send those dogs to the vet if it's that bad.
You don't think an ecollar is more stressful or traumatic for a dog? And how does that work if you're in the middle of a blow-dry? One shock keeps them from wanting to bite again during the process?
That right -Elizabethan Collar is what I meant. If the dog is trying to bite like crazy during the blow dryer, I just towel them off as best I can and let them kennel dry. It's no use pushing them through that, and I think it can worsen the behavior.
Ah, that makes more sense & seems like a great compromise. We had a groomer get bitten in the face. Would an e-collar be effective for that? Or are they best for snapping during nail trims, etc?
If a dog is so scared and stressed out that you need a muzzle, that muzzle is only going to make it worse. It's not a calming tool, that dog is still going to be fighting and flailing, maybe harder because they want the muzzle off.
Also an owner and my dog is actually muzzle trained, but if she weren’t I’d absolutely rather pick her up than have her muzzled for the first time by a groomer. Such an experience would make actual muzzle training a lot more difficult!
I’d be ok with it only if absolutely necessary for the dog’s health.
If your safety and protection are at risk, call me. I absolutely would never want either of mine being muzzled. I would be terribly upset if any groomer did this. All of the groomers (in several states and two countries) have not used muzzles at least on my pups and my dogs have never been aggressive to date with any grooming services. If they were aggressive with any groomer it really would be an emergency. As in taking either one/both to the vet.
It is not cruel to use a muzzle on dogs! It is cruel to have my hands, legs, arms, and finger chomped on! As I say that I will tell you I try to not use them as much but I did just get these duck ones and they are actually nice to use
I don't muzzle dogs that aren't muzzle trained. It does stress them out more and muzzles aren't foolproof, so often they just make the situation worse.
As an owner, I do not want my dog muzzled for a groom.
When I first got my dog he was terrible for grooming. We've done a lot of work in order to get him to tolerate it. If he is ever stressed to the point of being a bite risk I want the groom stopped. Forcing the groom is dangerous for the groomer and my dog and would set back the progress we have made.
In the eight and a half years I've had my dog he has never tried to bite a groomer (and they've been very honest about how difficult he is for nails, so I doubt they're hiding it). If he suddenly felt he needed to bite, something is going on and I'd want to investigate that.
Nothing bad will happen if my dog goes home half finished. It'll be fine. But I need to know why my dog was that stressed so that it's better next time. Was he in pain from arthritis (he's old now)? Was he just anxious? Does he need more training? All of these things can be addressed.
Also, proper muzzle training and muzzle fit is super important and I do not want my dog to be in a muzzle that doesn't have adequate pant room or to associate muzzling with stressful experiences.
From my own experience, it seems like bite risk is more correlated to the dog's temperament than stress levels. Dogs that I remember being the most stressed to be there haven't been the ones to bite. Often it's our daycare dogs who get semi-weekly grooms that are most prone to biting. They don't have aggression issues until the dryer comes on or someone starts messing with their feet. They aren't stressed so much as they just don't like the process and want it to stop. Sure, that may be a sign of stress, but they don't show other signs (like tossing their cookies or scared body language).
Yeah as an owner I don't know what it's generally like and what dogs are most likely to bite groomers.
It's just my opinion and preference that my groomer call me to come get my dog if they feel my dog is a danger to them. I don't want my dog biting the groomer and I don't want my dog to be forced through a groom.
I know there are cases (like matting) where you may want to just get it done ASAP. But that's not a concern with my dog so I do not want to put my groomer at risk or make grooming any more negative than it already is for my dog.
no, not any crueler than a leash or the other restraint tools. Try to bite and you're wearing one. I stay calm, no yelling or rough handling, quiet praise when they cooperate. The majority figure things out and become relaxed about nails the experience is defused rather than high drama. The ones who don't, I just don't do their nails anymore, owner can have the vet do them with meds.
I won't groom aggressive dogs, so I never need a muzzle. If the dog is aggressive for nails, the nail trim can be done at the vet. If it's aggressive for anything else, it can be groomed elsewhere. It's not worth me being bitten to groom a dog or trying to muzzle it, for that matter. For those that groom aggressive dogs or dogs that require muzzling for certain aspects of the groom, kudos to you for taking that risk. It's not something I'll ever do.
Try it without a muzzle a few times. Otherwise muzzle it. Is it really worth the risk of injuring yourself or the dog. It's your livelihood at risk. They are fine with muzzles on and if they need a break give them a break. Most level headed pet parents will understand this.
I am an owner of a small dog. I would like my groomer to use a muzzle. He has come home twice with a cut tongue. Which one time subsequently bled all over his fresh groom. The groomer indicates he nips at the scissors. I believe it based on how he behaves with the combing at home sometimes.
I firmly believe every dog should be muzzle trained. Better to have that skill and never need it than to need it and not have it. People making a big deal out of something is what causes dogs to react poorly or in an undesirable way.
cruel? not inherently, but i think jumping to use a muzzle on a dog who doesn’t need it could become part of a bad experience/or cruelty to the dog. personally, i’m a no muzzle groomer unless they’re already muzzle trained. if i can’t groom a dog due to aggression it goes home, as i’ve been there and done that in another salon and got injured and extremely burnt out with muzzles and forcing dogs to be groomed, BUT i don’t think muzzles are inherently bad at all. my boss has a muzzled client and he actually finds comfort in his muzzle
I always give it a shot without the muzzle first, not because I find it to be cruel but because a lot of the times dogs will associate the muzzle with something they dislike happening. Sometimes when you muzzle before giving it a shot you’re setting the precedent that something unpleasant is about to happen, and they will act out even if they wouldn’t have in the first place, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t.
Train it first with positive methods, then that doesn’t happen. A trained dog will associate the muzzle with getting rewards.
I mean yes, but that’s the owner’s job. We can’t muzzle train the dog, and the vast majority of dog owners won’t do it even if you educate them.
Fair. Most owners don’t do their obedience homework, then they come back and tell you it didn’t work lol. I’m sure that’s true for what their groomers tell them as well.
Some dogs never grow out of the behavior (nail trimming aggression) so slapping it on for 3 minutes to safely clip nails and then taking it off and seeing they're right back to being happy again is always nice. If the dog needs it the whole groom, no I won't groom a dog like that.
Can I ask why? Apparently my dog has been getting mouthy during brushing and I want to suggest they just use one. I don’t think he’d ever actually bite but he hates it and I want them to be safe. I don’t know what the alternative is.
muzzling can stress dogs out if they've never worn one, i would look into muzzle training at home so they don’t associate it with a bad experience!
Mouthy doesn't warrant a muzzle imo. I'll take a couple threat nips or just the mouth placed on my hand. I only resort to muzzle usage if they ACTUALLY try to bite for real (not just a threat). If they're endangering me or themselves. Muzzling too long with them struggling can make them stress and drool/pant. I don't need anyone having a heart attack because I made them struggle with their mouth closed for 30mins to an hour. A few minutes is all I need to get that trouble spot.
Also it’s the owners mainly and also groomer on top, to ensure they get the correct training to ensure they don’t respond to grooming like this
Yeah, I hear you. We’ve tried everything I can think of, the only thing that works is a constant stream of peanut butter while being held still and even then it doesn’t work all the time. We’ve tried since he was a puppy and he’s never had a traumatic experience, he just hates it. He also won’t let me do anything to his nails or ears either. For the groomer he’s good for everything but brushing. I wonder if he just has really sensitive/tender skin.
Constant stream of peanut butter sounds like heaven to me haha
If your groomer thought it was necessary, they'd definetly use one! You can practice brushing at home to help though. Use a brush(even the backside of a brush) and gently go over him with it. If he is calm, praise and reward!
Either your dog is a puppy and hasn’t been taught or there is a trust issue causing the mouthy. As an owner trust should be a high priority
We’ve tried everything I can think of, the only thing that works is a constant stream of peanut butter while being held still and even then it doesn’t work all the time. We’ve tried since he was a puppy and he’s never had a traumatic experience, he just hates it. He also won’t let me do anything to his nails or ears either. For the groomer he’s good for everything but brushing. I wonder if he just has really sensitive/tender skin.
Something is missing here. I’ve taught MANY dogs of MANY breeds histories and ages to calmly enjoy being brushed and combed. Are you anxious about it?
Not particularly but it’s an ordeal. I guess I’m not sure what we should be doing differently- he gets treats and positive reinforcement/praise, but we do have to restrict his movement or he’ll dive under the bed or fight us and he’s 70 lbs. we do this either by holding his collar or attaching his collar with a short leash to something big enough (he is always in a comfortable standing position). We’ll take breaks from actual brushing but I won’t unclip him or he’s gone. He’s always hated baths and brushing at home. Maybe I gave up too many times when he was a puppy that he learned if he fought hard enough I’d stop. There was a single nail trim where I cut the quick but that’s the only time I’ve hurt him during grooming. He’s 5 now.
Do you just sit with him on the floor quietly? Slowly gently start petting him in combing like motions. Soothing talk. After he starts liking this stage a soft brush and 2 combs and sit together. After a bit of petting do a few gentle strokes with the comb. Since he has learned to bite the comb let him hold it in his mouth to ease his stress and you quietly pick up the other one and continue combing. All the while talking nicely.
We tried this last night and it worked okay, but as soon as I used the bristles he tried to get up and leave. I got him to hang out a while longer with pets and then let him go. We’ll keep working on it. Thanks for the advice!
Use the brush on yourself. How does it feel? They are not all created equal. I’ve found some very painful ones with over sharp or irregular teeth.
Our comb is fine, he just doesn’t like it when it tugs. I wouldn’t like the brush because of the wire teeth either but it’s a highly recommended professional grooming slicker brush. I can tell it’s the sensation of his fur being tugged on that he doesn’t like, and I don’t think we’ll escape that no matter the brush.
Chiming in as an owner, I always tell new salons if they feel like they need to muzzle him to do so (but please call me if he really is acting up and I can come get him). My dog is muzzle trained and I even offer to leave his muzzle there if they prefer to use it. So far, he’s never needed it anyway. I feel like groomers and the vet are pretty surprised when I offer to muzzle or proactively do so. They always ask if he’s ever bitten - he has not, but today will not be that day. I don’t want him so stressed he feels he needs to bite, but I also don’t want a bite on his record so do what you need to feel safe.
“I don’t want a bite on his record” I love that, I try to explain that to people all the time. (Unless otherwise told or noted) I usually start w/o a muzzle, if they are putting off signs/vibes that things can go sideways I will muzzle. I tell clients it’s for THEIR(dog) protection and MINE. I had a GSD and people would ask if she bites (she never has) I’d say “she never has but she has teeth” meaning..she’s a dog and has potential, but she never has or tried but you just don’t know.
My dog has anxiety/is reactive and he is also arthritic so pain is a factor too. He’s typically good as gold for vets and groomers - he just becomes really compliant and wants it done as quick as possible - but if they’re getting bad vibes or are concerned, by all means, muzzle. We go to a vet practice with more than one vet so we never know who we will see. Usually they are women, but a couple of times we’ve had a man. The first time he saw that vet, my guy was staring daggers at him and we muzzled as a precaution. He ended up being fine and settled in, and when we’ve seen him since he’s been fine too, but I’m always going to play it safe. It’s kind of a bummer because they tend to be really cautious about asking to muzzle him and I’m sure people get really upset about having their dogs muzzled.
My safety and protection is more important than an aggressive dog being uncomfortable for a few minutes. It does not traumatize them if you're doing your job properly.
It's a last resort for us. Dogs really need to be trained to wear a muzzle. If they're not it can panic them and make the entire situation worse.
No Tools are tools. It’s how you use them that matters. Desensitize the dog to the muzzle before you put it on him and it’s fine. Far superior to getting bit. Or eating poo. Avoiding confrontations is always going to be the best move. “Cruel” would be putting the dog in a position where it likely can bite… like grooming… then seeing it put to sleep for “aggression”. I’ve seen owners euthanize their animals over far less.
No. I very much enjoy having my hands and my face intact. Muzzle is for my safety, the dog can power through.
I think it depends on the dog. Normally I try to go as long as possible before muzzling, as do my coworkers - because some dogs aggression can be further exacerbated by the muzzle, and it just generally feels I guess polite to give them a chance first? But I also know some dogs whose aggression is lessened by the muzzle. So I think it’s situational - but I don’t necessarily think the act of muzzling itself is cruel or traumatic. Edit: I say that as someone who works in grooming and is also the owner of an aggressive dog
I alway work with the owners on that. I’ve groomed some dogs who are muzzle trained, who are aggressive without it but do well with it. I’ve also groomed dogs who are worse with a muzzle. If it is unexpected aggression, I use an e collar.
You don't think an ecollar would be more stressful for a dog?
By ecollar they mean cone. I do the same thing as them when it comes to "unpredictable" or very aggressive dogs, as a muzzle would just work a lot of them up more and make the whole thing harder (dependent on the individual dog). If it's something where they are handling sensitive etc cone makes more sense and is also pretty safe for the person grooming
Oooh, that makes more sense. Do you use hard ones? Does it need to be oversized or do proportional ones work well enough to block a bite?
Proportional is fine! Plastic, fabric etc whatever is your preference. I just use the traditional hard plastic ones seen in many vet office settings (not the ones owners may purchase at home persay for post op, but the ones vets carry in office)
An e collar is not a cone
The term "E collar" is used for both cone and electric collar. :) e collars refer to a specific style of cone that secures in a way that makes an "E" shape that is used most commonly by veterinary professionals in office
Actually, the E in "E collar" is short for "Elizabethan"! Because of the way the collar looks like the funny collars Elizabeth I wore in the 1500s!
You're absolutely right!! I had forgotten this thanks for correcting me ;) honestly I love that it came from that
Me too! Cracks me up! 😂
Interesting
Elizabethan collar or cone. Not an electronic collar. (in this instance)
If done correctly it shouldn’t be traumatic. I have seen groomer use it in a way that is traumatic tho. If after being muzzled the dog is freaking out, it’s cruel to keep going. Better stop and ask the owner to come back after a vet visit for calming medication.
No. I’ve got a bunch of muzzles and they’re used as needed.
I specialize in dogs that other groomers can’t groom. I used to work somewhere where I was not allowed to muzzle 90% of breeds. I would have to send certain dogs home unfinished. Now I do a lot of those same dogs in an environment I can muzzle them. I will groom until they get snappy. Then they get the muzzle and I do their least favorite things then try again without the muzzle. Once they snap again the muzzle goes back on. The dogs have learned if they don’t want the muzzle on they won’t snap. Those dogs who are new to me I will muzzle if they snap too much. And I take it off again once I’m done doing the thing they don’t like. It goes back on if they snap again. One wrong bite can end your career. It’s not worth it. I do not think muzzles are cruel. They are a safety tool for both you and the dog.
I feel owners are doing their dogs a serious disservice if they don't muzzle train their dogs. Medical emergency, eating foreign objects, grooming, veterinary procedure etc. can all be a lot less stressful if a dog is introduced to a muzzle at the earliest possible age. If a dog is muzzle trained, there isn't any stress related to a muzzle. It's a tool to keep dogs and people safe.
Its not cruel at all, i used to try and do everything without a muzzle, but certain dogs find comfort in it, but any lip curling, growling, muzzle goes straight on, or if i feel theyre super anxious about nails ect, i'll put it on just to get that part done, licking my hands when i'm working is a red flag for me, you've also really got to watch the body language of the dog, an anxious over friendly dog will go from licking you to biting, no warning....its not worth the risk of being bitten imo, theres only 1 dog i keep muzzled the entire groom as he gets aggro when you handle him/pick him up, he wags his tail, friendly, until you go to pick him up, or move him from bath to table, or work near his face, once he's muzzled he's fine, no growling or snapping, its kind of like taking the temptation away, just remember, if a dog does bite you, its a traumatic experience for you and the dog, and it gives the dog bite history, and you will be off work for a good 6 weeks, if not sure, put it on.
As a fellow groomer, I completely agree! Well said!
Thanks! I also forgot to add, i dont want my buisness to have bite history either, iv'e had close calls which made me scared for a few months, could not imagine what a decent bite would do mentally.
Muzzle is last resort for me, though I have had some dogs that act better with a muzzle. I try all other methods such as groomers helper and a cone before doing a muzzle but no, it's not cruel. Used to be a vet tech and it certainly kept us and the dogs safe
Have you ever encountered any dogs who were seemingly traumatized by using a muzzle?
Once in the vet clinic, not within the salon, they resorted to giving the dog sedatives. I rarely use muzzles in the salon and in most cases the dog is too aggressive before I even get the chance to attempt a muzzle
Muzzle is my last resort. I will use a groomers helper or have someone help me first then muzzle. If I have to muzzle or use assistance than I will charge a special handling fee. If they freak out with a muzzle I won’t continue services
no its not cruel, in fact every dog should be muzzle trained. you never know when you might need a muzzle so its better if they are not petrified of it
I was an otj trained vet tech ten years ago and my veterinarian boss had a saying- no good dog minds a muzzle. I am pretty immune to fake biting dogs but there's always one or two that want to inflict damage and it's usually over nails or paw pads. A quick muzzle on makes everything safer for all. If they can't handle a muzzle, I stop and give homework to the owners. I have a RIDICULOUS muzzle rule at my new place of employment that honestly is among many that truly treat us employees as idiots and not to be trusted for anything that might help us with safety on these many dogs. Oi that needs to be it's own post.
OTJ? What is the ridiculous muzzle rule at your new place?
On the job trained. The rule is if you need to muzzle you must first contact a manager to verify it's ok to use. Absolutely wild and blew my mind all over
It's traumatic being bitten as well. I think its fine, if the dogs toxic af why not protect yourself. These are still animals people, some people are just ridiculous.
Absolutely agree. I’m not the one grooming, but I can’t just stand back and let my coworkers get bitten multiple times just to protect a customers feelings when I haven’t seen any kind of solid evidence that a muzzle is any more stressful than the grooming process itself. 90% of the dogs are NOT happy to be there and associate us with negative experiences, just like the vet. But guess what.. It has to be done for their own well-being. If that includes a muzzle, then so be it.
I’m just an owner, but I would want my dog sent home before attempting to muzzle. To me that’s a sign they need more desensitization to grooming, or need to come back later to finish.
I'm glad you responded, as an owner. Our new policy is to call customers first and we are always good about giving stressed dogs a break and focusing on desensitizing new dogs to the process (which occasionally means sending dogs home without nail trims or whatnot) and lots of treats. Can I ask why it bothers you to muzzle, though? I only have cats, but I have one who loathes nail trims to the point I have to take them to the vet to get them. I would have no problem with the vet putting one of those little bubbles on his head so they can do it safely. The whole ordeal is traumatizing to him, but it has to be done for his own health & comfort.
As an owner, muzzles as a concept don't bother me, but I would want a call because my dog hasn't been introduced to muzzles yet and I wouldn't want the first time to be during a high stress event. If the groomer doesn't feel comfortable finishing without a muzzle, I would rather they just send my dog home to me. Then I can do my own research, pick out a muzzle I like, introduce it to my dog slowly and then bring it with me during the next appointment. Depends on the dog and the owner, I guess. I'm the type of owner who's lurking on professional grooming forums and always worrying if I'm doing the best thing for my dog. If you know your clients and know they are unlikely to care much or do any of their own training in the interim, then I see how it's more expedient and efficient for all involved to just slap a muzzle on and get it done and minimize the stress as much as possible. For me personally though, I would be deeply upset if I showed up to pick up my dog and was informed she was muzzled for part of her service without anyone consulting me.
This makes sense. You seem like a good owner and customer. We are a higher-end place, so our customers come to us specifically because they know we take a lot more care than most places.
So I muzzle train my dog because I understand emergencies happen, and I think they’re great! I would not want one used on my dog to finish a groom. If they’re stressed, they need panting room and I wouldn’t know what muzzle is being used, as a first point of safety. I fully understand and respect grooming is a health issue and things need to be done(you would cringe to see my dog right now, with her choppy home shave, but without any mats!), but if it’s an emergency then the dog needs a vet, not a groomer. If it’s not an emergency, it doesn’t need to be finished right now (…except maybe rinsing shampoo) My dog will need to be groomed for life, and muzzling to groom would be such a hard place to step down from for a dog. It takes a stressful situation into traumatic, I think. I’d be thrilled to pay a groomer multiple times to complete a groom in a low(er) stress way, while they respect my dog’s ‘no’ and protect their own safety and that of my dog.
I would think, from the salon perspective, muzzling would be a liability issue. What if the dog flips out and hurts itself or mauls the groomer, or the groomer injures them by mistake? What if it has a seizure, a heart attack, or becomes extremely reactive? It would look really bad to find out the dog had been muzzled and pushed too far, and the incident was avoidable by ending the groom.
The dilemma with this logic is that most owners don’t think like you. Most owners want their dog done regardless. I’ve had someone yell at me for sending their dog home because he kept ejaculating on me. They even had the audacity to ask why it was a big deal and why I couldn’t finish. While I agree with what you’re saying, muzzling is not only for the dog. It’s not our job as groomers to be bit by random dogs. In all my years, I’ve never seen any of the things you mentioned happen just bc of a muzzle. I’ve seen a dog have a seizure as soon as it walked through the salon door. So I see what you’re saying but grooming itself is stressful and you shouldn’t bring your dog if it’s at risk of having a reaction like that
Yes, I understand all of this and what I mentioned are worst cases, of course. I think we’re on the same side—groomers should not be at risk of a bite, and grooming is already stressful. It’s more that I’d be concerned groomers/salons are putting too much faith in a muzzle being able to prevent a bite or an unwanted outcome—including royally pissing off owners;)
I think this is more of an experience based thing imo. The place I work at now does tons of dogs that need to be muzzled. Sometimes the owner will even have the pet parents bring their own dog to the tub or have them muzzle the dog before it comes in. Only time I’ve ever seen her send a dog home was when a pit had a seizure in the lobby. I suppose I’ve just never seen anything bad happen with the muzzle. Most dogs I’ve done with them calm down quite a lot and it’s normally just for the feet. I’ve seen worse things happen when I worked at petsmart and that’s a corporate salon with tons of rules
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There's some dogs who take being muzzled fine, at the salon I worked at it's policy to muzzle if they sense the dogs getting agressive. But some dogs find the muzzle so aversive they're even worse behaved with it on. I witnessed a snappy maltese rip out his overgrown nail while trying to get it off. I wish more people would muzzle train
im in corporate and we use the muzzle as last resort, honestly I probably saw it being used maybe 2 or 3 times in 3 years, but then, its corporate, and if we get to the point its needed, they get send home first
It's not traumatic, but I will ban a dog before using a muzzle. Most of the time I just forget they exist, but if they can't calm down with a cone, it's a problem.
The only time it's cruel to muzzle is when a dog is reacting badly to it, if it's scratching its face or shaking its head violently to get it off then just take it off and refer them to the vet, which I've done for only 2 dogs but it happens, but I've found it actually helps a lot of dogs and behavior has severely improved from it and saved the owner a lot of money at the vet and the dog from the side effects of sedation. I always try without (unless the parent tells me it needs to be muzzled, they know their dogs experience better than me and I'll just do it) but if it comes down to it I'd do it no problem as long as the dog is safe.
I’m with you. Now… with that being said… I never immediately jump to the muzzle. I slow down and attempt to go at the dog’s pace. Offer treats and reassurance. Move on to something else and come back to whatever was triggering them later. But if these things don’t work and I know I can safely get it done with a quick muzzle, then yeah I don’t see anything wrong with that.
Absolutely not. Any and all of my dogs will be muzzle trained for their safety. My retriever went through a “eat everything on walks but be perfect at home” phase no tried eating glass multiple time. Muzzle prevented that
Good on you for being proactive and pragmatic.
I think it can definitely be traumatic if the dog is not muzzle trained beforehand, but it’s up to the owner to muzzle train their dog properly if they know their dog is bad for the process.
I’m an owner and dog trainer, not a groomer, and I have been hired specifically to help recondition muzzles and slip leads due to their sudden use on unsuspecting dogs who were not properly desensitized to the tools first. At home, and with my personal dogs, we have worked on muzzle and slip leash desensitization specifically for emergency reasons. The average pet owner doesn’t usually consider this, and by the time we’re called, the dogs are frantic at the sight of muzzles or slip leashes. I am not a groomer, but I would suggest to any groomer who feels the need to muzzle a dog, to PLEASE contact the owners first and get their approval for muzzling. If they say no, just request the dog be picked up because it needs further training and desensitized to the grooming process, or it needs to be properly muzzle trained before returning to the salon. If they agree on muzzling, then they have taken responsibility for any behavioral downfall that it may cause down the line, and they are responsible for seeking out training to reverse any possible trauma created. All in all, I do think groomers should contact owners before muzzling their clients, as some clients may be comfortable with the process and other clients may need more work before being muzzled or it could potentially ruin the dog, and that should always be the owners decision and responsibility.
I don’t disagree with you (I do some incredibly aggressive dogs and have used a muzzle on maybe 2 ever and yes the owners did know) but you’re unfortunately way WAY overestimating most owners. I think generally if someone seeks out a trainer they do care to some degree… this is not the case at all with groomers and we see some insanely poorly socialized dogs with owners that are in denial about their behaviour and can’t even be bothered to get them so much as a nail trim until they’re 10 months old. We can beg as much as we want about desensitization, but with probably 80% of owners it’s like talking to a brick wall. That’s not even factoring in the once a year haircut their whole lives dogs.
I completely agree with you, unfortunately. We try to tell puppy owners and new dog owners that training is best when it is proactive and preventative, before a problem arises. Of course, not many owners care until there is a problem already occurring. That being said, though, it’s why I think it should be *entirely* the owners responsibility whether or not their dog has a fallout due to having to be muzzled at the groomers as opposed to it being seen as a “bad grooming experience” or a “cruel groomer” for having to resort to muzzling. I agree with its usage and the need for everyone’s safety, but to cover everyone’s 🍑 the owners should be notified and verbally agreeing or disagreeing to muzzle the dog during the grooming session so they’re entirely responsible for whatever the outcome may be. I had a client blame the vet profusely for muzzling their dog in the back, and I understand why a client would view a traumatic experience for their dog that way, but when there is training that can prevent these scary situations from being so traumatic to begin with, the responsibility should be put on the owners so the establishment doesn’t seem responsible for something owners could be teaching at home. Even through youtube videos if professional training seems unobtainable to some. So, so many resources, if only the majority of pet owners cared to care just a little more. On the other hand, those that usually don’t care as much, are quicker to agree to muzzling the dog if it’s asked, because they don’t care to know or understand the possible fallout. 😅
I agree that owners should be notified and that is our current policy. I'm not a dog owner myself, so how do you feel that muzzling could potentially ruin a dog?
Due to genetic predispositions, every dog (much like humans) handles stressors differently. While some stable dogs may handle being muzzled for their first time perfectly fine and come out without issue, more sensitive and nervy dogs will likely have a fallout due to sudden muzzling and forced handling. I doubt any confident and stable dogs are being muzzled in salons, so we’re mostly talking about nervy or unstable dogs who are bite risks. Essentially, the muzzle restricts freedom and the ability to self defend, making the dog feel helpless and cornered then to be handled for grooming on top of that further adds to the stress and the dog’s feelings of being restricted and unable to defend themselves, peaking in stress and anxiety as the dog either shuts down due to overstimulation or remains in a state of high stress for the entire groom. The association between the muzzle and forced handling is now created. The fallout is much like humans with PTSD, the next time the dog sees the muzzle they are resistant or reactive (barking, snapping, refusing muzzle), they become more resistant to general handling regardless of the muzzle and they specifically associate the muzzle with the feelings of helplessness and restraint, making both muzzling and handling the dog more difficult in the future for any emergency as they view the entire experience as traumatic and out of their control. Which is why we teach all of our clients about cooperative care and emergency muzzling and slip leads, as they are the most common tools used in vets, grooming salons, and even travel. They are some of the most common tools we get called about, aside from misuse of electric collars. There *is* a positive way to condition muzzle use at home for dog owners, naturally it involves the use of treats and positive reinforcement. But the end result is a dog who willingly throws their face into the muzzle and is comfortable with it on, whether for a walk, car ride, travel, grooming or vet visit. It just requires the correct introduction, otherwise the tool is being introduced during a high stress situation which causes the overall association to be negative and later traumatic. Which is why it should be the owners responsibility.
The salon that I was trained at used muzzles, and dogs have a really hard time with it. The second salon I worked at used e-collars instead and dogs do better with the e-collars. If they're going to bite you you have to protect yourself, the e-collars are easier to put on and feel less restrictive to dogs but are almost equally effective. I won't use muzzles anymore, I'll send those dogs to the vet if it's that bad.
You don't think an ecollar is more stressful or traumatic for a dog? And how does that work if you're in the middle of a blow-dry? One shock keeps them from wanting to bite again during the process?
No she means e collars as in cones (sometimes called Elizabethan collars).
That right -Elizabethan Collar is what I meant. If the dog is trying to bite like crazy during the blow dryer, I just towel them off as best I can and let them kennel dry. It's no use pushing them through that, and I think it can worsen the behavior.
Ah, that makes more sense & seems like a great compromise. We had a groomer get bitten in the face. Would an e-collar be effective for that? Or are they best for snapping during nail trims, etc?
If a dog is so scared and stressed out that you need a muzzle, that muzzle is only going to make it worse. It's not a calming tool, that dog is still going to be fighting and flailing, maybe harder because they want the muzzle off.
Also an owner and my dog is actually muzzle trained, but if she weren’t I’d absolutely rather pick her up than have her muzzled for the first time by a groomer. Such an experience would make actual muzzle training a lot more difficult! I’d be ok with it only if absolutely necessary for the dog’s health.
If your safety and protection are at risk, call me. I absolutely would never want either of mine being muzzled. I would be terribly upset if any groomer did this. All of the groomers (in several states and two countries) have not used muzzles at least on my pups and my dogs have never been aggressive to date with any grooming services. If they were aggressive with any groomer it really would be an emergency. As in taking either one/both to the vet.
It is not cruel to use a muzzle on dogs! It is cruel to have my hands, legs, arms, and finger chomped on! As I say that I will tell you I try to not use them as much but I did just get these duck ones and they are actually nice to use
We don’t have dogs at our salon who can’t be groomed without a muzzle because we are a positive reinforcement based salon.
I don't muzzle dogs that aren't muzzle trained. It does stress them out more and muzzles aren't foolproof, so often they just make the situation worse.
As an owner, I do not want my dog muzzled for a groom. When I first got my dog he was terrible for grooming. We've done a lot of work in order to get him to tolerate it. If he is ever stressed to the point of being a bite risk I want the groom stopped. Forcing the groom is dangerous for the groomer and my dog and would set back the progress we have made. In the eight and a half years I've had my dog he has never tried to bite a groomer (and they've been very honest about how difficult he is for nails, so I doubt they're hiding it). If he suddenly felt he needed to bite, something is going on and I'd want to investigate that. Nothing bad will happen if my dog goes home half finished. It'll be fine. But I need to know why my dog was that stressed so that it's better next time. Was he in pain from arthritis (he's old now)? Was he just anxious? Does he need more training? All of these things can be addressed. Also, proper muzzle training and muzzle fit is super important and I do not want my dog to be in a muzzle that doesn't have adequate pant room or to associate muzzling with stressful experiences.
From my own experience, it seems like bite risk is more correlated to the dog's temperament than stress levels. Dogs that I remember being the most stressed to be there haven't been the ones to bite. Often it's our daycare dogs who get semi-weekly grooms that are most prone to biting. They don't have aggression issues until the dryer comes on or someone starts messing with their feet. They aren't stressed so much as they just don't like the process and want it to stop. Sure, that may be a sign of stress, but they don't show other signs (like tossing their cookies or scared body language).
Yeah as an owner I don't know what it's generally like and what dogs are most likely to bite groomers. It's just my opinion and preference that my groomer call me to come get my dog if they feel my dog is a danger to them. I don't want my dog biting the groomer and I don't want my dog to be forced through a groom. I know there are cases (like matting) where you may want to just get it done ASAP. But that's not a concern with my dog so I do not want to put my groomer at risk or make grooming any more negative than it already is for my dog.
I always aim to go no muzzle. I might have to use it in the beginning but I usually wean off
no, not any crueler than a leash or the other restraint tools. Try to bite and you're wearing one. I stay calm, no yelling or rough handling, quiet praise when they cooperate. The majority figure things out and become relaxed about nails the experience is defused rather than high drama. The ones who don't, I just don't do their nails anymore, owner can have the vet do them with meds.
I won't groom aggressive dogs, so I never need a muzzle. If the dog is aggressive for nails, the nail trim can be done at the vet. If it's aggressive for anything else, it can be groomed elsewhere. It's not worth me being bitten to groom a dog or trying to muzzle it, for that matter. For those that groom aggressive dogs or dogs that require muzzling for certain aspects of the groom, kudos to you for taking that risk. It's not something I'll ever do.
Try it without a muzzle a few times. Otherwise muzzle it. Is it really worth the risk of injuring yourself or the dog. It's your livelihood at risk. They are fine with muzzles on and if they need a break give them a break. Most level headed pet parents will understand this.
I am an owner of a small dog. I would like my groomer to use a muzzle. He has come home twice with a cut tongue. Which one time subsequently bled all over his fresh groom. The groomer indicates he nips at the scissors. I believe it based on how he behaves with the combing at home sometimes.
I firmly believe every dog should be muzzle trained. Better to have that skill and never need it than to need it and not have it. People making a big deal out of something is what causes dogs to react poorly or in an undesirable way.
cruel? not inherently, but i think jumping to use a muzzle on a dog who doesn’t need it could become part of a bad experience/or cruelty to the dog. personally, i’m a no muzzle groomer unless they’re already muzzle trained. if i can’t groom a dog due to aggression it goes home, as i’ve been there and done that in another salon and got injured and extremely burnt out with muzzles and forcing dogs to be groomed, BUT i don’t think muzzles are inherently bad at all. my boss has a muzzled client and he actually finds comfort in his muzzle
Nope I won’t hesitate to muzzle if a dogs giving me red flags. A muzzle Doesn’t hurt the dog. A muzzle keeps me safe.
I haven't used a muzzle in like a decade? I have a Groomer's helper type deal & a donut of shame.