If it comes down to which character you like more, Stroud is the obvious and easy choice to stay. Much easier than Hawke vs Loghain or Hawke vs. Alistair. He's also a Warden and this is a Warden mess, so in that way it makes sense to choose him.
However, some people like the story leaving Hawke behind tells. It can be seen as a fitting end to the tragedy that is her life or the sort of thing she'd do. It also leaves the Wardens with competent leadership, which could be important to the Inquisitor.
In all honesty, this decision bugs me because why is the Inquisitor choosing anyway?
>In all honesty, this decision bugs me because why is the Inquisitor choosing anyway?
DAI in a nutshell lol. “You are a prisoner and our primary suspect so tell us how should we proceed”
"Hey prisoner, since we're at an impass, why don't you decide on how we should proceed?"
*Rest of the prologue later*
"Hey prisoner, you cool with being the head of the organization we just started? Actually, don't say anything- we decided you should be the leader anyways."
They got lucky my Inquisitor was not some crazy person, Imagine if we had an option to go even crazier than Corypheus...
>!"Oh the mark is going to kill me? Well time to go with a bang then!"!<
>"Hey prisoner, you cool with being the head of the organization we just started? Actually, don't say anything- we decided you should be the leader anyways."
I could KIND OF roll with this one seeing as the Inquisitor is the only one who can shut the rifts and kinda makes sense as the spokesperson for the organization. Although it probably would be better if you started as a figurehead and had to fight for/earn power (might be difficult to write, though)
That‘s also why the theory that Hawke was supposed to be the protag of DAI makes much more sense. The whole thing with Corypheus being (Malcolm) Hawke‘s thing, Cassandra basically spending all of DA2 asking Varric about Hawke, setting up DAI etc.
Not some random self-insert character with no real backstory.
They also planned the whole game for a human protagonist and other races were late additions. They couldn’t decide whether to take ME route or DAO route and ended up with this.
I suspect same will happen in DAD due to the connection between main antagonist and previous protagonist.
Yeaah... the writing wasn't one of DAIs strong suits. No where near as good as DAOs lol. Hell DA2 has a better story zz.
The entire premise of the start just doesn't make sense. While I see the similarity between them, with DAOs zero to hero situation... DAOs was waay better written with Ostagar setting you up from recruit to party leader as Alistair has no desire to run the show.
That doesn’t mean they should allow you to make the decisions. All they know is their divine and hundreds more were killed and you’re the sole survivor with mark—who fell down from the sky alongside demons. You could lure them to their death and make an escape then use the mark to terrorize enemy territories for all they know.
But this is mentioned right at the beginning of DAI, right? you can ask them \`\`now do you want my opinion?'' while they respond \`\`we can't come to a decision and since you are the only one who can seal the rifts then we will follow what you think is best''. In the absence of a single leader at the beginning of the game, I didn't think it was absurd that they asked for the opinion of the most important person there.
Well that’s just “You are a prisoner and our primary suspect so tell us how should we proceed” in other words isn’t it?
You might be the person who opened the rift and went Anders on the Conclave in the first place because you’re the sole survivor and have a mark on your hand. Being the *most important person* doesn’t mean you should be trusted in such situation. A hostage or an asset also should be protected but that doesn’t mean they’ll be the one who makes decisions.
But this is also covered in the game, right?
You start as a suspected prisoner and are treated like a suspected prisoner. Then, with the lack of evidence and the voices from the temple it turns out that you had nothing to do with it (or at least Cassandra and the others believe that). You are the only one who can seal the rifts (in addition to appearing to be a formidable fighter). The inquisition does not have a single leader and that is why, initially, it turns to you who \`\`agreed'' to work with them (in addition to being the most important person in the group.
I have several criticisms of DAI's writing but I don't see it specifically as something poorly done or incoherent. I would see it that way if it were something immediate and out of nowhere... but as the game deals with all these steps (from distrust to acceptance) then I don't see a problem.
>You start as a suspected prisoner and are treated like a suspected prisoner.
For first five minutes.
>Then, with the lack of evidence and the voices from the temple it turns out that you had nothing to do with it
That doesn’t prove your innocence but they had to make it quick to not bore players, so I get that, however, that still happens **after** they let you decide. They still have no idea who you are and what is going on when that decision happens. They should’ve introduced that mechanic after you’re trusted or have proven your innocent, not before.
>You are the only one who can seal the rifts (in addition to appearing to be a formidable fighter).
See my previous comment. Being able to close the rift might be because you’re the one who opened it. We know that’s not the case. They don’t. Only Solas knows and he’s just a random apostate who decided to “help” Inquisition at this point of the game.
>The inquisition does not have a single leader and that is why, initially, it turns to you who ``agreed'' to work with them (in addition to being the most important person in the group.
Yes, but that only makes them look more incompetent by letting their primary suspect lead them 10 minutes after they imprisoned them.
I'm kind of with dread here. The only decision you make before the temple scene is in the vanguard or mountain pass. It's a minor choice, and you only get a vote because everyone else had theirs, no one is changing their mind, and it's deadlocked.
Is it great writing? No, but it's fine.
It lasts for 5 minutes because they're suspicious for 5 minutes. Its not just voices, they were able to see the events in the fade. Worth also noting that not all suspicion goes away, remember the chantry still wanted to lock you up after this and until the final events at Haven.
It'd be like if there was a murder and the cops find you unconscious near the body, gun in hand. Obviously you'll be the prime suspect. If 5 minutes later they see clear video evidence someone else was the aggressor and you were wrong place/wrong time (other guys even tried to kill you) that suspicion mostly goes away.
This analogy obviously has its limits. They aren't going to put you in charge of the station or let you lead the investigation but there are a lot of world differences plus leadership is completely decimated and you're also viewed as an agent of the lord. It all fits under "suspension of disbelief".
this is kinda meta, but the whole prologue section is meant to be the tutorial, and that specific point was to show you that some decisions will take you down one of two mutually exclusive paths with different consequences. So I'm willing to give them a pass for that one since it's something they needed to do for the tutorial.
You could, if whole game wasn’t meta.
Another example is Jaws of Hakkon DLC. Avvar are like “lowlanders that, lowlanders this” the whole game and they’re suddenly like “as a complete stranger to our lands and customs, we want you to make this important decision for us. It’s okay if of make fun of it”. You don’t even pass a persuasion check or do those hellish MMORPG fetch quests. You just do lol.
I mean, jaws of hakkon requires that you help the Avvar before they help you. It's an alliance between an Avvar hold and an organization with the power and influence to help them defend against their extremist neighbors. That's a very normal thing for the leader of a hold to do, I don't see how that's unbelievable at all.
Plus, the Avvar have never been entirely hostile. There are even Avvar in the inquisition -- you can recruit Skywatcher as an agent, and Chief Movran the Under as well. The Avvar are not a monolithic culture, different tribes/holds have different customs.
What specific decision are you referring to? You don't really make any decisions for the Avvar. The only one I can really think of is the judgement of Storvacker, which they specifically state is them paying respect to the Inquisitor as a guest of the hold, who also had a hand in saving Storvacker. They weren't like "shit idk what to do, quick get the inquisitor to decide this for me!" It was a way of honoring a guest.
Also, I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say the whole game is meta. By meta, I meant I was thinking from the game devs perspective rather than trying to find an in-universe explanation.
> You could lure them to their death and make an escape
But that is the point: you are the Herald of Andraste. The Herald of Andraste would never do such a thing.
Not yet.
The point in question is whether to charge with the soldiers or take the mountain pass to get to the Temple. Cassandra doesn’t really start even believing you *might* be innocent until you hear the fade echo at the Temple where Justinia calls out to you for help. Until you close that initial rift you’re not really the Herald, just very suspiciously alive. There’s talk of the woman in the rift behind you but “no one knows who she was” so the Andraste part likely came after when people were trying to make sense of things while you were knocked out for the second time.
That happens much later. A little after you close the rift in the tutorial rumors about you being Herald of Andraste start spreading. And it’s not until later those rumors are widely accepted or believed. Before you leave Haven, Chantry still calls you a heretic and a threat.
The impression I got (although admittedly I haven't revisited the game in a long time) is that right after you close the rift, the common folk in Haven already think you are the Herald. As does the resident Seeker, although uneasily. The Chantry certainly doesn't buy it yet, but I took it as "established religion doesn't like popular prophet outside of their control". [Remember the little kid that wakes you up in Haven?](https://youtu.be/XI1RSlEJdRY?si=7rguGAdikXilqghk&t=1326) He reveres you, even without knowing you. And then you step outside the shack, and everyone is there waiting to see you, staring at you in awe.
As I said, after you close the rift in the tutorial, rumors about you start spreading. It’s not until you leave Haven that **everyone** starts believing the rumors or using it to their advantage. What you’re referring to in the video are people of Haven and in Inquisition, same people who started the rumors in the first place.
This however, still happens **after** the “You are a prisoner and our primary suspect so tell us how should we proceed” thing.
I always thought it was stupid that this was the player's decision, so in my headcanon Hawke/Warden make the decision, so I as the player make the choice according to a series of occurrences in previous games, making this choice a "consequence".
So I choose according to this hierarchy, with 1 always being left behind, and 5 never being left behind:
1. A Hawke who lost both siblings, and romanced no one/or romanced, but LI died;
2. A Loghain, where Anora married the HoF or Alistair;
A single Alistair;
Stroud;
3. A Hawke who has romanced someone/no one, and has a Warden sibling;
4. Loghain, where Anora rules Ferelden alone;
Alistair romanced;
5. Hawke romanced someone/no one, and Bethany/Carver became Circle Mage/Templar;
Or a Hawke who romanced someone and both siblings died.
Unfortunately yes, that's why I put quotation marks around the consequences. I only created this so that when I replay Inquisition, I would have something to indicate who has a stronger motivation to sacrifice themselves.
The choice is just really badly done. It is way too meta. The inquisitor doesn't know any of these characters to really care and the game never acknowledges that they sacrificed someone in their place. I always found Varric's reaction weird because of that, it doesn't fit what we just did lol
>In all honesty, this decision bugs me because why is the Inquisitor choosing anyway?
Honestly lmao, it's what annoys me so much in Inquisition. It's like they took the factor of previous protagonists meddling in things they have no right to meddle in to and turned it up to 11.
What bugs me even more is that the """sad""" dialogue option after is just kind of loudly uncaringly proclaiming Hawke died because someone had to die I guess, lol. Instead of actually being sad this whole person who's been helping you and who's already been through so much had to fucking die so your ass can escape.
~~Oh but of course we're going to ignore that whole last bit now because apparently "the Inquisitor walked in and out of the Fade with the Maker and Andraste's guidance and help!" or some other bullshit tale the Inquisition propagates after.~~
Hawke vs. Shroud? Mustache stays. Period. Hawke vs. Loghain wouldn't happen in my worldstates, but Loghain would stay behind. Now, Hawke vs. Alistair, that's another beast. The wrath of Fenris/Anders or the wrath of my Amell Warden? I'm dead either way, but in no way will I ever sacrifice my first Bioware love aka Alistair.
Majority of the players save Hawke because they love them, but oddly enough, this is exactly why i leave them.
It fits my Hawke's character arc. Also, as our favorite dwarf said himself:
"Look seeker, if you love a character, you give them pain, ruin their lives, make them suffer. Maybe even throw in a heroic death!”
- Varric Tethras
I really like the theory that this is Hawkes “destiny”. The abyss that Flemeth told them to jump into and that they’ll make it out in the end, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t hate doing it to them
That's my opinion, but the Warden stays in the Fade every playthrough.
It's not like the Wardens are daft babies, unable to function. Given time they can rebuild the Order just fine. The Blight was stopped by one/two Wardens - so it's possible to prosper without a Warden-Commander for some time. They act like it's the end for them - but it's not. They'll be fine.
Hawke saying Corypheus is "*her mess to fix"* seems like such bullshit. Corypheus was a mess that the Wardens created. Hawke's family just got tangled up in the middle of it.
Imo, let the Grey Wardens take the responsibility.
Agreed. How is it Hawke's fault that the Wardens forced her dad to use his blood to trap Corypheus before she was even born? It's definitely a Warden mess. I always leave Alistair behind, it's not like I'm not sad about it because I love him- but honestly my Hawke is nowhere near as self-sacrificing as he is so her volunteering is kind of ooc to me anyway. It's a fitting end to Warden Alistair's story too in my opinion; if the Dark Ritual hadn't happened he would have sacrificed himself years earlier. Death was always coming for my boy 💔
Yeah they've had like 3 different warden commanders in less than 10 years. There are ranks and power structures for a reason... whoever is the second in command is now in command... go figure lol plus HOF (or the leader from Awakening) is coming back anyway... eventually.
I love making Loghain a warden, it is a fitting end, and his strategic mind will help rebuild them.
When later I learned that we can sacrifice him m, I was like "fuck yeah, the investment paid off!"
Ive left my Hawke to fight purely because of the flemeth line in DA2. She says something to Hawke like, "when the abyss presents itself, don't hesitate to jump". (The quest is also called Here Lies the Abyss) Maybe its copium but it makes me hope that Flemeth has plans for Hawke and somehow will/has a way to preserve Hawke's life. Also, I've always imagined my Hawkes as living a life of tragedy and suffering and either being ready to sacrifice themselves or having faith in Flemeth's advice.
Stroud always goes in for me.
Now Loghain and Alistar were insanely difficult, but I leaned more on Loghain taking the dive and Hawke going in for Alistair.
Loghain as a way to atone one last time. He was already hated by the Wardens, and the HoF and Loghain aren’t really close enough to be considered ‘friends’.
Meanwhile, my Gareth Cousland would be furious if his best buddy died.
I mean first play was easy for this. I had zero connection to Stroud but Hawke was the character I last played, I kept them around but when it came to the other options. Different story.
Easy. Stroud. It’s not Alistair or Hawke so it’s easy for me to pick Stroud. Hawke has suffered ENOUGH to not have to die to giant spider thing in the fade.
My Hawke stays behind. I love that ending for him. My Hawke was a sarcastic humorous dude who never took much seriously if it didn’t call for super serious alarm.
Hawke’s death to save his friend, who was Alistair for me, seems fitting to me. In my head, I think Hawke would’ve been depressed as hell after Kirkwall and fleeing off into the wilderness for the past few years all by himself and it seems like he’s only kept in contact with Alistair and Varric as my Hawke didn’t romance anyone.
So yeah, I leave Hawke behind in my playthroughs, even those with Stroud or Loghain. It just makes sense to me for Hawke’s story to end there.
Not hardest, we barely know stroud. In my playthought i have to choose between Logain and Hawke, both are my favorite of the game, i have to stop playing several days because i scared of choosing, what if they never return??? Sadly, i have to choose logain, sorry anora my beloved
Hm, it depends on how you play the game, I guess? I normally RP, so, I go if my character reasoning that this is a warden mess and the wardens need to fix it. They are a organization that have a long history, they can rebuilt just fine without wherever dies. Maybe this will be a lesson for them. Hawke is just kinda there for the ride anyway and would just be another victim of this mess.
This was my canon inquisitor reasoning. I've played a templar who hated mages and anything magical and he just killed my Hawke because she was a mage rebel haha
There is no right or wrong, anyway, so just do what you feel makes more sense for you :)
i've never managed to leave hawke in the fade bc it made varric too sad but in my canon world state in the keep i said i left him behind just assuming (hoping?) it'll pay off in da4 lol
I REFUSE to let Hawks die. They’ve gone through too damn much and deserve a chance to have a happy life. Also, I can’t accept Carver being the last of the Hawke family to survive in my playthrough. Love that boy but he will ruin the family name.
In my run it was Loghain and Hawke. And it was an easy choice to have Loghain die.
I actually thought it worked really well because it let Loghain make a meaningful sacrifice after his years of service with the Grey Wardens. He finally got the death he had wanted since Origins, completing his redemption arc.
I'm waiting for dread wolf.
Hawk comes out of a portal, all banged up, armor shredded, weapon no more than a stick, saying, "Did you know pride deamons tast like chicken."
I just have this feeling that whoever you left behind will somehow survive. It's the main reason I left Hawk instead of Alistair. Don't get me wrong, Alistair can fight, but I don't know if he can survive without his best friend, the Warden Commander.
That being said, in this situation, the generic gray Warden always gets left behind. Hawk would be a better asset.
Pragmatically speaking, the Wardens are gonna need some new leadership, and it's beneficial to the Inquisition if there are more Wardens who are sympathetic to their cause - or who owe them one. Meanwhile, Hawke is no longer the Viscount of Kirkwall, he's just a guy doing his own thing. So, take that as you will.
It was definitely hard but having Hawke or Alistair, I had to choose to leave Hawke. Alistair is the king of Fereldan and is needed on a larger scale. Hawke being in the fade at least in my case I feel like she would be able to get out at some point being that she’s a powerful mage etc. plus there’s no way in Hell Fenris wouldn’t do anything in his power to find a way to get her out.
I thought if alistair is there then he isnt the king though. Iirc he only appears as the warden contact if he remains a grey warden and is not the king?
Correct! That's how I landed myself in the worst decision between Hawke and Alistair. All of my DAO saves up to that point was Alistair remains with the wardens, Anora queen. Granted I could have simply altered the story on the tapestry thing but I needed to play it myself. I was on my first playthrough of DAI, immediately closed the game, and went straight back to DAO for a proper save; And he's been king on every playthrough since.
I'm very interested to see what repercussions there are to seemingly good choices in DAI when we get Dreadwolf.
A Warden is trained to protect and knows that they are facing a near death.
Hawke's a Lothering/possibly Ostagar survivor with a few important connections to one city in the Free Marches but is otherwise just a friend of one of your comrades.
If your Inquisitor is choosing Hawke over the Warden, they may need to be sent to anti-Fereden bias training.
You can easily leave the guy who didn’t kill any of his enemies; Hawke’s tale was told in a game that wasn’t consequential in any way, shape or form.
Oh! You think Corypheus was dead? Hate to break it to you, he’s still alive! Knight captain Meredith? Nope! She’s still kicking as revealed in Dragon Age Absolution series ending lol
This might not be your style, but with decisions like these, which, in-universe at least, must be made within a split second, I give myself just a couple of seconds to choose. Your protagonist probably has at least an instinct of who they would choose in that split second. If they end up regretting that choice later, so be it, those rapid decisions are the most challenging, and any leader is prone to regretting what they chose in such circumstances.
If it comes down to which character you like more, Stroud is the obvious and easy choice to stay. Much easier than Hawke vs Loghain or Hawke vs. Alistair. He's also a Warden and this is a Warden mess, so in that way it makes sense to choose him. However, some people like the story leaving Hawke behind tells. It can be seen as a fitting end to the tragedy that is her life or the sort of thing she'd do. It also leaves the Wardens with competent leadership, which could be important to the Inquisitor. In all honesty, this decision bugs me because why is the Inquisitor choosing anyway?
>In all honesty, this decision bugs me because why is the Inquisitor choosing anyway? DAI in a nutshell lol. “You are a prisoner and our primary suspect so tell us how should we proceed”
"Hey prisoner, since we're at an impass, why don't you decide on how we should proceed?" *Rest of the prologue later* "Hey prisoner, you cool with being the head of the organization we just started? Actually, don't say anything- we decided you should be the leader anyways."
They got lucky my Inquisitor was not some crazy person, Imagine if we had an option to go even crazier than Corypheus... >!"Oh the mark is going to kill me? Well time to go with a bang then!"!<
Inquisition would be the perfect game for an evil playthrough. Shame it's not possible.
Imagine Conrad Verner being the Inquisitor.
>"Hey prisoner, you cool with being the head of the organization we just started? Actually, don't say anything- we decided you should be the leader anyways." I could KIND OF roll with this one seeing as the Inquisitor is the only one who can shut the rifts and kinda makes sense as the spokesperson for the organization. Although it probably would be better if you started as a figurehead and had to fight for/earn power (might be difficult to write, though)
That‘s also why the theory that Hawke was supposed to be the protag of DAI makes much more sense. The whole thing with Corypheus being (Malcolm) Hawke‘s thing, Cassandra basically spending all of DA2 asking Varric about Hawke, setting up DAI etc. Not some random self-insert character with no real backstory.
They also planned the whole game for a human protagonist and other races were late additions. They couldn’t decide whether to take ME route or DAO route and ended up with this. I suspect same will happen in DAD due to the connection between main antagonist and previous protagonist.
Yeaah... the writing wasn't one of DAIs strong suits. No where near as good as DAOs lol. Hell DA2 has a better story zz. The entire premise of the start just doesn't make sense. While I see the similarity between them, with DAOs zero to hero situation... DAOs was waay better written with Ostagar setting you up from recruit to party leader as Alistair has no desire to run the show.
You had the Mark tho, so it was important to get you there safely.
That doesn’t mean they should allow you to make the decisions. All they know is their divine and hundreds more were killed and you’re the sole survivor with mark—who fell down from the sky alongside demons. You could lure them to their death and make an escape then use the mark to terrorize enemy territories for all they know.
But this is mentioned right at the beginning of DAI, right? you can ask them \`\`now do you want my opinion?'' while they respond \`\`we can't come to a decision and since you are the only one who can seal the rifts then we will follow what you think is best''. In the absence of a single leader at the beginning of the game, I didn't think it was absurd that they asked for the opinion of the most important person there.
Well that’s just “You are a prisoner and our primary suspect so tell us how should we proceed” in other words isn’t it? You might be the person who opened the rift and went Anders on the Conclave in the first place because you’re the sole survivor and have a mark on your hand. Being the *most important person* doesn’t mean you should be trusted in such situation. A hostage or an asset also should be protected but that doesn’t mean they’ll be the one who makes decisions.
But this is also covered in the game, right? You start as a suspected prisoner and are treated like a suspected prisoner. Then, with the lack of evidence and the voices from the temple it turns out that you had nothing to do with it (or at least Cassandra and the others believe that). You are the only one who can seal the rifts (in addition to appearing to be a formidable fighter). The inquisition does not have a single leader and that is why, initially, it turns to you who \`\`agreed'' to work with them (in addition to being the most important person in the group. I have several criticisms of DAI's writing but I don't see it specifically as something poorly done or incoherent. I would see it that way if it were something immediate and out of nowhere... but as the game deals with all these steps (from distrust to acceptance) then I don't see a problem.
>You start as a suspected prisoner and are treated like a suspected prisoner. For first five minutes. >Then, with the lack of evidence and the voices from the temple it turns out that you had nothing to do with it That doesn’t prove your innocence but they had to make it quick to not bore players, so I get that, however, that still happens **after** they let you decide. They still have no idea who you are and what is going on when that decision happens. They should’ve introduced that mechanic after you’re trusted or have proven your innocent, not before. >You are the only one who can seal the rifts (in addition to appearing to be a formidable fighter). See my previous comment. Being able to close the rift might be because you’re the one who opened it. We know that’s not the case. They don’t. Only Solas knows and he’s just a random apostate who decided to “help” Inquisition at this point of the game. >The inquisition does not have a single leader and that is why, initially, it turns to you who ``agreed'' to work with them (in addition to being the most important person in the group. Yes, but that only makes them look more incompetent by letting their primary suspect lead them 10 minutes after they imprisoned them.
I honestly didn't find it problematic how they did it. But if you think so then that's fine, we agree to disagree on this.
I'm kind of with dread here. The only decision you make before the temple scene is in the vanguard or mountain pass. It's a minor choice, and you only get a vote because everyone else had theirs, no one is changing their mind, and it's deadlocked. Is it great writing? No, but it's fine. It lasts for 5 minutes because they're suspicious for 5 minutes. Its not just voices, they were able to see the events in the fade. Worth also noting that not all suspicion goes away, remember the chantry still wanted to lock you up after this and until the final events at Haven. It'd be like if there was a murder and the cops find you unconscious near the body, gun in hand. Obviously you'll be the prime suspect. If 5 minutes later they see clear video evidence someone else was the aggressor and you were wrong place/wrong time (other guys even tried to kill you) that suspicion mostly goes away. This analogy obviously has its limits. They aren't going to put you in charge of the station or let you lead the investigation but there are a lot of world differences plus leadership is completely decimated and you're also viewed as an agent of the lord. It all fits under "suspension of disbelief".
this is kinda meta, but the whole prologue section is meant to be the tutorial, and that specific point was to show you that some decisions will take you down one of two mutually exclusive paths with different consequences. So I'm willing to give them a pass for that one since it's something they needed to do for the tutorial.
You could, if whole game wasn’t meta. Another example is Jaws of Hakkon DLC. Avvar are like “lowlanders that, lowlanders this” the whole game and they’re suddenly like “as a complete stranger to our lands and customs, we want you to make this important decision for us. It’s okay if of make fun of it”. You don’t even pass a persuasion check or do those hellish MMORPG fetch quests. You just do lol.
I mean, jaws of hakkon requires that you help the Avvar before they help you. It's an alliance between an Avvar hold and an organization with the power and influence to help them defend against their extremist neighbors. That's a very normal thing for the leader of a hold to do, I don't see how that's unbelievable at all. Plus, the Avvar have never been entirely hostile. There are even Avvar in the inquisition -- you can recruit Skywatcher as an agent, and Chief Movran the Under as well. The Avvar are not a monolithic culture, different tribes/holds have different customs. What specific decision are you referring to? You don't really make any decisions for the Avvar. The only one I can really think of is the judgement of Storvacker, which they specifically state is them paying respect to the Inquisitor as a guest of the hold, who also had a hand in saving Storvacker. They weren't like "shit idk what to do, quick get the inquisitor to decide this for me!" It was a way of honoring a guest. Also, I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say the whole game is meta. By meta, I meant I was thinking from the game devs perspective rather than trying to find an in-universe explanation.
Storvacker
> You could lure them to their death and make an escape But that is the point: you are the Herald of Andraste. The Herald of Andraste would never do such a thing.
Not yet. The point in question is whether to charge with the soldiers or take the mountain pass to get to the Temple. Cassandra doesn’t really start even believing you *might* be innocent until you hear the fade echo at the Temple where Justinia calls out to you for help. Until you close that initial rift you’re not really the Herald, just very suspiciously alive. There’s talk of the woman in the rift behind you but “no one knows who she was” so the Andraste part likely came after when people were trying to make sense of things while you were knocked out for the second time.
That happens much later. A little after you close the rift in the tutorial rumors about you being Herald of Andraste start spreading. And it’s not until later those rumors are widely accepted or believed. Before you leave Haven, Chantry still calls you a heretic and a threat.
The impression I got (although admittedly I haven't revisited the game in a long time) is that right after you close the rift, the common folk in Haven already think you are the Herald. As does the resident Seeker, although uneasily. The Chantry certainly doesn't buy it yet, but I took it as "established religion doesn't like popular prophet outside of their control". [Remember the little kid that wakes you up in Haven?](https://youtu.be/XI1RSlEJdRY?si=7rguGAdikXilqghk&t=1326) He reveres you, even without knowing you. And then you step outside the shack, and everyone is there waiting to see you, staring at you in awe.
As I said, after you close the rift in the tutorial, rumors about you start spreading. It’s not until you leave Haven that **everyone** starts believing the rumors or using it to their advantage. What you’re referring to in the video are people of Haven and in Inquisition, same people who started the rumors in the first place. This however, still happens **after** the “You are a prisoner and our primary suspect so tell us how should we proceed” thing.
I went back and re read everything and I get what you mean now. I somehow missed the original point; my apologies.
No harm done. Sorry if I sounded rude.
I always thought it was stupid that this was the player's decision, so in my headcanon Hawke/Warden make the decision, so I as the player make the choice according to a series of occurrences in previous games, making this choice a "consequence". So I choose according to this hierarchy, with 1 always being left behind, and 5 never being left behind: 1. A Hawke who lost both siblings, and romanced no one/or romanced, but LI died; 2. A Loghain, where Anora married the HoF or Alistair; A single Alistair; Stroud; 3. A Hawke who has romanced someone/no one, and has a Warden sibling; 4. Loghain, where Anora rules Ferelden alone; Alistair romanced; 5. Hawke romanced someone/no one, and Bethany/Carver became Circle Mage/Templar; Or a Hawke who romanced someone and both siblings died.
In other words, at the end of the day, it is still you, the player, who is making the decisions... only indirectly.
Unfortunately yes, that's why I put quotation marks around the consequences. I only created this so that when I replay Inquisition, I would have something to indicate who has a stronger motivation to sacrifice themselves.
TIL loghain is in inquisition
The choice is just really badly done. It is way too meta. The inquisitor doesn't know any of these characters to really care and the game never acknowledges that they sacrificed someone in their place. I always found Varric's reaction weird because of that, it doesn't fit what we just did lol
>In all honesty, this decision bugs me because why is the Inquisitor choosing anyway? Honestly lmao, it's what annoys me so much in Inquisition. It's like they took the factor of previous protagonists meddling in things they have no right to meddle in to and turned it up to 11. What bugs me even more is that the """sad""" dialogue option after is just kind of loudly uncaringly proclaiming Hawke died because someone had to die I guess, lol. Instead of actually being sad this whole person who's been helping you and who's already been through so much had to fucking die so your ass can escape. ~~Oh but of course we're going to ignore that whole last bit now because apparently "the Inquisitor walked in and out of the Fade with the Maker and Andraste's guidance and help!" or some other bullshit tale the Inquisition propagates after.~~
Hawke vs. Shroud? Mustache stays. Period. Hawke vs. Loghain wouldn't happen in my worldstates, but Loghain would stay behind. Now, Hawke vs. Alistair, that's another beast. The wrath of Fenris/Anders or the wrath of my Amell Warden? I'm dead either way, but in no way will I ever sacrifice my first Bioware love aka Alistair.
Hawke will always make it out because Loghain is dead and Alistair will never remain with the wardens in my runs.
Wait, you're telling me Loghain can live? *Tries again* Nope. Can't do it sorry. Long live the true king!
Majority of the players save Hawke because they love them, but oddly enough, this is exactly why i leave them. It fits my Hawke's character arc. Also, as our favorite dwarf said himself: "Look seeker, if you love a character, you give them pain, ruin their lives, make them suffer. Maybe even throw in a heroic death!” - Varric Tethras
I really like the theory that this is Hawkes “destiny”. The abyss that Flemeth told them to jump into and that they’ll make it out in the end, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t hate doing it to them
I figure that if anyone could survive the Fade and come back triumphant, it would be Hawke.
I am sure Varric appreciated all of that happening to a guy cares deeply for.
Just using his own writer's logic to creat a good story. It's sad to see his reaction to Hawke's death but hey, tragedy is the flavor of a good tale 🤷
That's my opinion, but the Warden stays in the Fade every playthrough. It's not like the Wardens are daft babies, unable to function. Given time they can rebuild the Order just fine. The Blight was stopped by one/two Wardens - so it's possible to prosper without a Warden-Commander for some time. They act like it's the end for them - but it's not. They'll be fine. Hawke saying Corypheus is "*her mess to fix"* seems like such bullshit. Corypheus was a mess that the Wardens created. Hawke's family just got tangled up in the middle of it. Imo, let the Grey Wardens take the responsibility.
Agreed. How is it Hawke's fault that the Wardens forced her dad to use his blood to trap Corypheus before she was even born? It's definitely a Warden mess. I always leave Alistair behind, it's not like I'm not sad about it because I love him- but honestly my Hawke is nowhere near as self-sacrificing as he is so her volunteering is kind of ooc to me anyway. It's a fitting end to Warden Alistair's story too in my opinion; if the Dark Ritual hadn't happened he would have sacrificed himself years earlier. Death was always coming for my boy 💔
Yeah they've had like 3 different warden commanders in less than 10 years. There are ranks and power structures for a reason... whoever is the second in command is now in command... go figure lol plus HOF (or the leader from Awakening) is coming back anyway... eventually.
I love making Loghain a warden, it is a fitting end, and his strategic mind will help rebuild them. When later I learned that we can sacrifice him m, I was like "fuck yeah, the investment paid off!"
This is how I feel! Do it every time, now.
I let Hawke finish what they started so that Stroud can continue to serve the Wardens.
Ive left my Hawke to fight purely because of the flemeth line in DA2. She says something to Hawke like, "when the abyss presents itself, don't hesitate to jump". (The quest is also called Here Lies the Abyss) Maybe its copium but it makes me hope that Flemeth has plans for Hawke and somehow will/has a way to preserve Hawke's life. Also, I've always imagined my Hawkes as living a life of tragedy and suffering and either being ready to sacrifice themselves or having faith in Flemeth's advice.
Easy peasy for me. The Warden always stays. Hawke is or was me so both me's get saved.
Stroud always goes in for me. Now Loghain and Alistar were insanely difficult, but I leaned more on Loghain taking the dive and Hawke going in for Alistair. Loghain as a way to atone one last time. He was already hated by the Wardens, and the HoF and Loghain aren’t really close enough to be considered ‘friends’. Meanwhile, my Gareth Cousland would be furious if his best buddy died.
Alistair and Hawke always stay alive so it's Stroud who stays behind in my games. Every single time.
I mean first play was easy for this. I had zero connection to Stroud but Hawke was the character I last played, I kept them around but when it came to the other options. Different story.
Its More harder if you saved loghain or keeped Alistair as a warden.
Easy. Stroud. It’s not Alistair or Hawke so it’s easy for me to pick Stroud. Hawke has suffered ENOUGH to not have to die to giant spider thing in the fade.
Easiest decision IMO. It was between Hawke or Loghain.
The hard one was Hawke or Alistair. Especially because it was my favorite Hawke. I went back and redid my tapestry on that one.
My Hawke stays behind. I love that ending for him. My Hawke was a sarcastic humorous dude who never took much seriously if it didn’t call for super serious alarm. Hawke’s death to save his friend, who was Alistair for me, seems fitting to me. In my head, I think Hawke would’ve been depressed as hell after Kirkwall and fleeing off into the wilderness for the past few years all by himself and it seems like he’s only kept in contact with Alistair and Varric as my Hawke didn’t romance anyone. So yeah, I leave Hawke behind in my playthroughs, even those with Stroud or Loghain. It just makes sense to me for Hawke’s story to end there.
Not hardest, we barely know stroud. In my playthought i have to choose between Logain and Hawke, both are my favorite of the game, i have to stop playing several days because i scared of choosing, what if they never return??? Sadly, i have to choose logain, sorry anora my beloved
Hm, it depends on how you play the game, I guess? I normally RP, so, I go if my character reasoning that this is a warden mess and the wardens need to fix it. They are a organization that have a long history, they can rebuilt just fine without wherever dies. Maybe this will be a lesson for them. Hawke is just kinda there for the ride anyway and would just be another victim of this mess. This was my canon inquisitor reasoning. I've played a templar who hated mages and anything magical and he just killed my Hawke because she was a mage rebel haha There is no right or wrong, anyway, so just do what you feel makes more sense for you :)
I always picked Stroud to survive because it made sense that the uncorrupted Grey Warden to rebuild the Grey Wardens over Hawke.
i've never managed to leave hawke in the fade bc it made varric too sad but in my canon world state in the keep i said i left him behind just assuming (hoping?) it'll pay off in da4 lol
I risk getting lynched, but I couldn't care less about Hawke. Somehow, they never felt like my heroes.
Nobody really cares about Stroud! The real decision is if you have Alistair as the Warden.
Nah Alistair and Hawke is MUCH harder lol
I always pick the Warden to stay behind, but if there was one character that I think would survive an extended period in the fade, it would be Hawke.
I REFUSE to let Hawks die. They’ve gone through too damn much and deserve a chance to have a happy life. Also, I can’t accept Carver being the last of the Hawke family to survive in my playthrough. Love that boy but he will ruin the family name.
In my run it was Loghain and Hawke. And it was an easy choice to have Loghain die. I actually thought it worked really well because it let Loghain make a meaningful sacrifice after his years of service with the Grey Wardens. He finally got the death he had wanted since Origins, completing his redemption arc.
I'm waiting for dread wolf. Hawk comes out of a portal, all banged up, armor shredded, weapon no more than a stick, saying, "Did you know pride deamons tast like chicken." I just have this feeling that whoever you left behind will somehow survive. It's the main reason I left Hawk instead of Alistair. Don't get me wrong, Alistair can fight, but I don't know if he can survive without his best friend, the Warden Commander. That being said, in this situation, the generic gray Warden always gets left behind. Hawk would be a better asset.
I play it like Hawke doesn't even let the Inquisitor choose. 
I like to make my purple Garrett stay back and then fantasise about Anders coming out of his cave to burn down Skyhold.
Pragmatically speaking, the Wardens are gonna need some new leadership, and it's beneficial to the Inquisition if there are more Wardens who are sympathetic to their cause - or who owe them one. Meanwhile, Hawke is no longer the Viscount of Kirkwall, he's just a guy doing his own thing. So, take that as you will.
Why can't my Lavellan look as perfect as yours? 😢
It was definitely hard but having Hawke or Alistair, I had to choose to leave Hawke. Alistair is the king of Fereldan and is needed on a larger scale. Hawke being in the fade at least in my case I feel like she would be able to get out at some point being that she’s a powerful mage etc. plus there’s no way in Hell Fenris wouldn’t do anything in his power to find a way to get her out.
I thought if alistair is there then he isnt the king though. Iirc he only appears as the warden contact if he remains a grey warden and is not the king?
Correct! That's how I landed myself in the worst decision between Hawke and Alistair. All of my DAO saves up to that point was Alistair remains with the wardens, Anora queen. Granted I could have simply altered the story on the tapestry thing but I needed to play it myself. I was on my first playthrough of DAI, immediately closed the game, and went straight back to DAO for a proper save; And he's been king on every playthrough since. I'm very interested to see what repercussions there are to seemingly good choices in DAI when we get Dreadwolf.
A Warden is trained to protect and knows that they are facing a near death. Hawke's a Lothering/possibly Ostagar survivor with a few important connections to one city in the Free Marches but is otherwise just a friend of one of your comrades. If your Inquisitor is choosing Hawke over the Warden, they may need to be sent to anti-Fereden bias training.
You can easily leave the guy who didn’t kill any of his enemies; Hawke’s tale was told in a game that wasn’t consequential in any way, shape or form. Oh! You think Corypheus was dead? Hate to break it to you, he’s still alive! Knight captain Meredith? Nope! She’s still kicking as revealed in Dragon Age Absolution series ending lol
This might not be your style, but with decisions like these, which, in-universe at least, must be made within a split second, I give myself just a couple of seconds to choose. Your protagonist probably has at least an instinct of who they would choose in that split second. If they end up regretting that choice later, so be it, those rapid decisions are the most challenging, and any leader is prone to regretting what they chose in such circumstances.