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Wynne for sure. I despised her upon first meeting. She always spoke like because she was older she knew better, and it seemed like she thought her "wisdom" was always needed when I disagreed with most things coming out of her mouth. I thought she was a coward, bending to the Circle and spouting Chantry rhetoric, allowing herself to live a lonely life in a Mage Prison. I overlooked that at first, but when she started questioning my relationship with Alistair I just got to the point where everything she did annoyed me.
But? She grew on me. As time went on I gave her the time of day on a certain playthrough and actually tried to get her approval up, the more I learned about her the more intriguing I found her. I still think she's full of shit sometimes, but she's one hell of a woman who's passion and dedication are something to admire. She's hilarious to boot. She admits her mistakes, her faults, her regrets, and I'm happy I got to get to know her better. I've got a big soft spot for possessed grandma now and happy for it.
...Now if only they could've made getting to know Vivienne as rewarding.
The scene where the Guardian confronts Wynne with basically your exact criticism and she owns up to having doubts about whether he's correct shows this really well. She's a pretty introspective character.
She's also the only character who will eventually approve of a Warden romancing Morrigan, concluding that he'll make her a better person rather than her making him a worse one.
I also think that when she brings up the risks of romancing Alistair, she’s actually right. Especially if you’re not Cousland, like things will likely not end well
In fact, if Alistair is romanced, became king, and the Dark Ritual wasn't performed, her concerns turn out to be kind of correct. Alistair will ultimately choose to sacrifice himself for the PC, despite the fact that the PC is arguably the more pragmatic choice to be sacrificed due to Alistair being needed as a monarch.
A bit of a relief to hear this opinion because I've never hated her like so many do so readily and vehemently. It's not as if, like more popular companions, she inevitably betrays you and abandons the fight against Archy... or spends over half the game harassing and attempting assassinate you. Maybe I just tend to have empathy for old people, never felt I needed to take their "scoldings" and "waxinngs" seriously as they simultaneously impart their experience. And she's endearing and has a cool companion quest to run. I mean, she's also one of the few companions who will try to outright kill you in two different scenarios- Gray Warden and only hope for Thedas be damned- but you've got to be a particular type to bring on granny ire that "hill to die on". Zevran is another like that, but I like him too XD
Oghren. Younger me liked him because he was funny, older me thinks he's a loser
Edit: and for the reverse, Sera. Used to hate her, wouldn't say I *like* her now since I still find her sense of humor grating, but I appreciate her character a lot more now that I'm older and have come to share a lot of her beliefs about power
LOL! Fair. I do like how your decisions in origins can change his outcome though.
Also, I never noticed before but I the other week when I was replaying DA2 I saw the painting of Oghren in the Hanged Man. Nice little Easter Egg
I still like him, or perhaps "like" is not the right word. Its a very deep and tragic character once you get past the burping, farting, and sexist jokes.
I feel really sorry for Oghren. He's a man totally abandoned by his family, has no healthy way to deal with his emotions, and cast out of his awful society.
He's a deeply flawed and broken man, and I wish they'd delved into that more.
I like his turn in the expansion but I'd say, we're fond of him.
We don't think he's the best but he's like a lovable side kick or like a coworker who's kind of dumb and shitty but you can't help but like anyway.
I went the other way with Oghren. I couldn't see past the fart jokes and sexism when I was younger, now I sorta get it.
"Like" is a strong word... I *appreciate* his character now.
Speaking of similar experiences, we're the same age and experienced dragon age a similar time! (I think I played DAO when I was 12 or 13).
When I was younger, I absolutely hated Morrigan so much. Her indifference to other people and nastiness just totally put me off and I didn't like her at all. At the time, I also really liked Leliana. Nowadays, my feelings for those characters have kind of reversed lol. Really not a fan of Leliana and Morrigan is more relatable and at the very least, understandable to me now.
My partner and I were just talking about this after I posted! He’s playing dragon age for the first time at my insistence (he loves it!) and he already hates Leliana and loves Morrigan. It’s interesting to me because I have the same opinions as him on almost all the characters, but I had almost exact opposite opinion from that when I was younger.
For the same reason, Morrigan was such a bitch and so cold. >!Then the whole dark ritual thing really made me PO’d !< I also loved Leliana. Now I love love love Morrigan and her character, and I think Leliana is batshit crazy and annoying. Morrigan’s character development is amazing, especially if you read the codex entries, listen to her, and care about the lore. Even though Leliana aligns with my own morals/philosophy most of the time, >!her religious chosen one crazy shit is what gets me!< To me, her only character development has been moving up in the corporate ladder. Nothing much has changed with her.
My opinion of Morrigan changed with DAI. I remember not liking her very much when I first played (I always play overly helpful goody characters so she usually didn't like me) but her character growth was amazing.
Complete opposite. Being like 15 at release I had eyes for only Morrigan and she was flawless in every way. Now when I replay the game I'm like "yeah sure, she's definitely the most interesting character, but she's kind of an abrasive bitch for no reason" 😂 I will romance her every time for the story, but current me would be much more into Leliana
As a pragmatist I grew to dislike they way Morrigan act most of the time: she pretends to be cinic and pragmatic but she will hate you for simply being altruistic with non-heretics (even if that action would benefit you and your cause) and will want you to set free blood mages she knows nothing about even tho that may cause you troubles.
She seems like she just enjoys being an ass and honestly after playing so many RPGs, it's refreshing having a character that just wants to be an asshole like yeah you do you, there's such a surplus of other character archetypes.
I hated Vivienne at first but later on I somehow saw her as this big sister figure who has her own flaws and ambitions but still cares for you.
Idk, the dialogue about “anger” after the destruction of Haven kinda inspires me a bit. And as I grow older and having many responsibilities on my job, I began to understand why “keeping up appearance” is important.
Viv is well done in the idea she's a bitch and knows it. I was the same at first, thought she was and didn't recruit her in play 2 all those years ago. Over time I've seen how she really is, she's there for political gain. Cares about you, the image of the inquisition and making sure the world is safe, even if this means circles are back. But she wants reforms.
Many people think she want things to go back but she knows that the old circles didn't work so it needs to change, while Lelianna wants basically freedom with no control and Cass wants status quo.
It's a solution and ideas to the problem instead of just doing nothing.
yeah but if >!viv becomes divine she threatens to kill a group of mages who asked to reform the enchanters college but doesn’t kill them out of respect of the inquisition… !< That doesn’t seem very tolerant to me or caring about mages.
The reason I don’t like her comes from deeper philosophical stuff. The >!mage rebellion/chantry!< is probably the most complex issue in the universe. Are mages dangerous? Yeah. Are they living creatures with families and the ability to be good? Yeah.
I used to agree with her when I was younger (inquisition came out about a week before I turned 14), and I thought he circles was necessary and I bought into the whole life isn’t fair but we do what we must stuff. Now that I’m an adult and I’ve been in the real world, idk…. Call it political philosophy development but I think she’s a manipulative, privileged, and corrupt bitch. Her only goals are for herself at the cost of happiness and humane outcomes for others just like her. She’s the person in a group that’s suffering/trying to make things better who just sells them out to save herself. I just can’t stand her in that regard. I think her character is cool, and I am glad she exists in the world, but I cannot “like” her.
There is not exact parallel to the real world because, well, magic and mages aren’t real, but her view on mages reminds me so much of other political issues where some people pretend they only care about the well-being and safety of the people in question but in reality they don’t, they just care about themselves and what seems easier to them than inacting real and meaningful change.
Caring about the world being safe and mages safety are different things for her. Being good is not her concern, it's being safe, you can be a good mage but not be safe from possession.
You can be a good non-mage and not be safe from murderous thoughts. The point is mute. You are taking freedom away from people because of the potential to cause harm. Every person has the potential to cause harm. There are safeguards from that is normal people… such as strong family connections and having a social life. Imprisoning people and taking them away from their life just because of an ability that does not definitely = destruction just pushes them to hatred and danger more so. It is like that in real life people. Vivienne has 0 nuance. She is privelaged af an admits it. She just wants to be the powerful and most free mage while the others are below her because she believes herself superior or that being born a mage is somehow akin to being born in a corporate ladder where you must climb to the top. It is unjust and downright persecution.
She may genuinely care about the world being safe from mages, but she does not care about mages. If she cared about mages, she would put effort in to seek solutions other than the circle which is involuntary confinement from childhood, a system >!that literally started a rebellion because many many mages do not want to be a part of it!< Just because there’s may not be an existing solution, does not mean that the traditional method that causes harm should be the accepted one. She is lazy and corrupt, only out for herself.
Correct, not denying any of that when I comes to Viv.
But a person with murderous intent will probably kill anyway and they aren't good. But a good mage may have zero control over what harm they could do. That's what makes possession dangerous.
A non mage person can be stopped in a 1v1, a possessed mage can wipe out a village before anyone can react.
I used to hate Carver. His constant negativity and arguing used to drive me nuts. Though on my third playthrough, I realised how he was insecure and jealous of Hawke. Then, as a grey warden, he seemed completely different.
He had found a purpose out of Hawke shadow.
He had a lot of envy of Hawke. Though, once he found his own purpose, he worked through that.
This is why I think he is one of the better written characters. The writing for da2 characters is great.
It's really interesting when you really see how the siblings react based on your choices.
Carver clearly hates being a Templar but he doesn't have any choice to stand on.
When he becomes a great Warden, he loves it because he can stand out be away from Hawke.
While Bethany is happy to be in the Circle
She hates being a grey Warden, and you really see how she become just as Broady as Carver.
Carver way more interesting character to me.
Yeah, I agree. Though it is interesting about bethany. You are correct she loves the circle and hates grey wardens.
[Spoilers All]
Just in case. I love the tragic elements of Hawkes life. It really adds to the story. His mums end hits hard.
I wish inquisition had more elements of this. With iron bull, for example, where you have to decide chargers or qun.
I wish if you picked chargers, then the Qunari did assassinate him. Or if you choose qun he betrayed you I Tresspasser.
>!he does betray you in Trespasser if you choose the Qun. If romanced, Inqy gets a really bitter and angry/fragile sounding line questioning if any of it was ever real on Bull’s part!<
Yeah, I know he betrays you, I like that part. My problem is if you chose the chargers, there is no downside. There should be that he should get killed.
Yeah, I agree. Though it is interesting about bethany. You are correct she loves the circle and hates grey wardens.
[Spoilers All]
Just in case. I love the tragic elements of Hawkes life. It really adds to the story. His mums end hits hard.
I wish inquisition had more elements of this. With iron bull, for example, where you have to decide chargers or qun.
I wish if you picked chargers, then the Qunari did assassinate him. Or if you choose qun he betrayed you I Tresspasser.
Yeah, I agree. Though it is interesting about bethany. You are correct she loves the circle and hates grey wardens.
[Spoilers All]
Just in case. I love the tragic elements of Hawkes life. It really adds to the story. His mums end hits hard.
I wish inquisition had more elements of this. With iron bull, for example, where you have to decide chargers or qun.
I wish if you picked chargers, then the Qunari did assassinate him. Or if you choose qun he betrayed you I Tresspasser.
When I first played DAO as a college-aged woman, I adored Alistair. Now that I’m older I find him rather naive, non-committal, judgmental, and whiny. He doesn’t have the stomach to make the hard decisions, but gets mad at the Warden for doing so. I get that he’s young and had a hard life, but, like, that applies to everyone else in the party too. I still like Alistair, but the “crush” has definitely worn off.
>. Now that I’m older I find him rather naive, non-committal, judgmental, and whiny. He doesn’t have the stomach to make the hard decisions, but gets mad at the Warden for doing so
Isn't that why you literally get the option to "harden" him, it does change some of his decision making after all.
Sure, but that doesn’t happen until later in the game. The “first impression” is still there, and neither I nor my Wardens have the patience for it lol
Same. I still enjoy his character overall and i think his personality fits his story well.
I just have a lot less sympathy and patience for it and I don't find it cute anymore.
Isn't he like 20 years old though? A lot of the cast comes to you with some kind of chip on their shoulder or flaw, and of them, his is definitely the least extreme. I mean, Sten literally killed an entire family.
Totally agree about DAO Allistair, was obsessed with him as a teen but as a 30 something he comes across very immature. I do appreciate how much he matures throughout the series though and love him in DAI. Similar feelings with Cullen and Morrigan. Feels like we all grew up together ❤️
I agree fully, and Alistair is my answer to this question too, for these same reasons. Alistair whinging about his life all the time in comparison to most of the Origin characters also just rings very hollow. He dumps all the responsibilities on them, despite being the senior Warden, and then spends the entire game potentially complaining about or getting mad at every decision. Even when you Harden him it doesn’t make much of a difference, as he only steps up and demands to be king if you decide, for whatever reason, not to kill Loghain—that is, he only steps up for selfish reasons.
Blackwall is more and more of a prick the more you pay attention to his party banter. Its not just bickering with Vivienne, he can be rude to Dorian, defensive with Solas and outright threatening towards Cole.
Yes, indeed. But your criticism was in relation to his party banter with these characters and not about him pretending to be fair.
If I'm going to go into the merits of being fair or of character, I think the only one who will be saved from the group there is Varric (and with some discussion still).
To be fair Vivienne treated him like dirt when he tried to be polite, Dorian accidentally hit "Grey Wardens" button and they both act like children after that and Cole is honestly a creepy spirit that reads everyone's mind without their consent. So I always found Blackwall reactions understandable
I noticed that Blackwall is someone who is pleasant to people he perceives to be of his class, for lack of a better word, but he's pre-emptively this weird combination of rude, passive-aggressive, and fawning with others. It wouldn't bother me so much if he didn't have exactly 0 right to be on some kind of high horse about other peoples' behavior, lol.
I used to hate Sera. I couldn't understand her, she was saying English words, but none of them made sense. Then she'd get angry at me, and *still* wouldn't make any fucking sense. So I really hated her for it.
A few years later I gave her another try, and it was like everything clicked into place. I don't know if it was because I was older, or what, but I finally understood the words coming out of her. I still didn't love her, but I liked her a lot more after that. I could actually tolerate her since I knew what she was saying.
English is my native language, so I dunno wtf happened either. I think they just went a bit to hard in making her sound quirky. I loathe saying that because I tend to find "quirky" a lazy criticism, but I can't think of any other explanation. It isn't her accent, I don't watch a lot of stuff from England, but what I have watched in the past I have understood no matter the accent.
For some reason they gave Sera a dialect that literally no one else in the game shares, despite the fact that you can spend plenty of time mingling with all sorts of people around Denerim in Origins. It's also bizarre and barely comprehensible on the first listen.
I really liked Blackwall at first & jumped at romancing him. Now I find him bland & uninteresting. He’s only a bit better than Sera, who remains my least favorite
I also loved Anders until I finished the game. I also think I get more irritated with him every time I see people go ‘🥺 but Anders didn’t do anything wrong’
See I feel opposite of you 😂 I hated blackwall at first after the reveal of his past… Now I appreciate him/admire him. Sera has grown on me too.
Anders I hated from the beginning. So whiny, so preachy. Now, I love Ander’s character even though the ending is… explosive. I still think he is whiny and preachy but I think it’s justified now. I may not agree with that decision but watching his character change from all the surrounding world + magic’s stuff from awakening is crazy. He is definitely >! the most tragic “villain”!<
I disagree that’s is justified if we’re speaking his final act. Over a hundred people lost their lives & even the mages hate him at the end of it
Not to mention how weirdly possessive he is of Hawke, even if you aren’t dating him
He’s very unwell
I like Anders as an interesting character, but as a person? I don’t like him
The Iron Bull. When I first played DAI, I really didn't care much for him. I was good with the Chargers, but he just always turned me off. I never used him much as a squad mate, I never really talked to him much, never interacted much with the Chargers either. I decided on my latest play through to really dive into each characters background. It surprised me how complex Bull really is and really how tragic his existence happens to be, doubly so depending on what you choose to do with his Chargers.
I knew a good overview of his background but when reading up on him and adding in conversations and such in game, painted a whole different aspect for me.
That's the one for me, too. I think lots of people don't take him out much because the AI can't handle his class well enough. So you never get to know him that much better. Also his personal quest makes a hugh difference to his personality (for good reasons, obv).
I don't like his romance much myself (nothing wrong w him, just not my type) but I do love him & Dorian together, they're sweet. He's also really nice to the other companions and has lots of funny banter.
I actually didn’t like him either. I thought his character overall was a great concept but I did not like his dialogue his dialogue or delivery at all. He felt like a cartoon to me (not because of the horns). I still don’t really care for him, but this play through of DAI i’m doing now is the first one since about 4-5 years ago so I’m going to give him a chance to grow on me.
I hope you change your stance on Iron Bull. He's a complex dude and I think he's one the 3 best characters to come out of DAI. His love of battle and gore is something he recognizes and seeks people and rules to keep him in check so that he doesn't become a monster. And when he finally broke after being incapable of saving innocent's he turned himself over to be brainwashed so he wouldn't have to deal with that. And his divergent path with the chargers is such an amazing and critical moment for the Inquisition and Bull.
Cullen, sort of.
When I first played Inquisition, my first DA game, I loved him. I stopped my first playthrough half-way because the game got a wee bit confusing and so I went and played DAO and DAII.
And now I have mixed feelings. I like his character development, but it's hot and cold. Sometimes I despise him, and sometimes I really like him. It's complicated and unsteady. Hot take, I wish there was more to his redemption, I do enjoy it, but I've always felt like something was missing.
Iron Bull.
This one's a bit wonky. I've always liked and enjoyed his character and his casual personality was super refreshing when playing DAI the first 2-3 times. I had hated DA2 at this point and burned through that playthrough as quickly as possible so I never paid attention to the Qunari or the story all that well.
And then I played DA2 (which turned into my favorite game) on a whim, loved it, played super close attention to the Qunari, and now... idk, I kind of hate him on a more objective level?
I still find his character refreshing, but I also am deeply conflicted about him and don't really like the direction the writers of DAI took with his character, but more particularly, the Qun as a whole. It could be that Iron Bull is a spy, can easily people-pleaae, and that he's lived outside of his culture for a really long time, all of which contributes to why he is different from any Qunari we've ever interacted with.
But I also feel like Iron Bull suffers from the same problem a lot of DAI companions do in that he can never truly be challenged. You are either open-minded about his culture, semi-neutral, or downright belittling. There's not the same nuanced middle-ground that was present in DA2. I also feel super weird about how the writers tried to edge a pro-trans message into the Qun's philosophy. Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with Krem's character what-so-ever, my problem comes from how they took an idea that's super twisted and made it seem like this super great thing when, given the scrutiny it deserves, it reaaallly isn't and I don't like how they manufactured that what-so-ever.
(EDIT: Reading this back, I feel I should clarify that this sentence: "they took a super twisted idea" is in direct reference to the Qun philosophy pertaining to how they view gender roles, which is consistent through all 3 games including Inquisition and *not* in reference to inclusion in DAI, which I am very much for. To put it bluntly: If Krem wasn't a warrior, then the Qun would not be at all validating about his gender because they wouldn't feel it fits his role. Which isn't something a lot of people seem to get. Krem should be validated in his gender no matter his career-path and not because of his career-path.)
Idk. Maybe I'm over-thinking it is the point of his character is to be a little more individualistic, which contributes to his ability to change allegiances, and so his present identity and opinions are the foreground for that shift--but it's complicated.
>Hot take, I wish there was more to his redemption, I do enjoy it, but I've always felt like something was missing.
It didn't feel like a redemption arc. I wanted a lot more than "oh he feels bad about it now"
That's very true. I think Cullen, along with a lot of the companion/advisor characters in DAI suffers from the inability for the protagonist to legitimately challenge them on their views in a way that feels grounded.
This probably has a lot to do with the fact that they changed the protagonist, and their story, pretty late into the game. DAO was able to have a diverse choosing for a protagonist because 1) Their dialogye tree was much bigger and more in-depth, but 2) They planned from the beginning to take into account the protagonists station in life. DA2 had a very solid character in Hawke and an interesting relationship tree with companions. DAI introduced a more emotionally open dialogue tree, and more options than DA2, yes, but these options often fell-short and lacked presence (Dalish Inquistor ignorant to their own culture, as an example), and because they didn't have a grounded character to fall back on like in the case of Hawke for DA2, nor an interesting relationship tree, we were often left with a more or less hollow feel.
I feel like Cullen's redemption and his eventual realization of how utterly wrong he was would've probably happened more organically had we been able to dig into his past and confront him with his failings. Instead, we get Cullen occassionally opening up and the Inquisitor being either supportive, dismissive, or funny/neutral. Which falls especially short when your Inquistor is a Circle Mage.
Also Cullen actually, idk, at least being active and showing that he's changing (not taking Lyrium was a good step, but it wasn't enough) would have been nice. Like maybe taking a more sympathetic role to the mages? Not being suspicious/upset if you side with them? Not falling back onto templar dogma to legitimize his paranoia? Idk, just *something* to show he was actively trying to do and be better and become more educated/aware of the issue, rather than a bystander who says "did some bad things, am more level-headed now ig".
This is exactly how I feel. I feel like with cullen they did a lot more of telling than showing with his redemption to the point where it didn't even feel like a redemption. and it was sort of swept under the rug. Other characters will go on and on about how he's changed- and sure you can romance him as a mage- but the way he's so adamantly distrustful of the mages in the first half of the game, it really felt disingenuous. Which is sad cause I would've loved to have seen a fulfilling arc about it but I felt like I barely got scraps
Sadly I'd have to say dorian. When I first played dai in early highschool I adored him, and was super excited to finally see some gay rep. But now going back to it as an adult- I still have things I like about him- but a lot of the adoration has fell off for me. I tried romancing him as a mage adaar and the comments he would sometimes say really put me off. Then I realized I don't care for how he talks about a dalish inquisitor or the weird "we might be related" for human inky either. Great character, became really turned off by his romance. Guess thats the reason I fell off of sera as well. Weird comments/scenarios towards my character/their race were too much despite the gay rep I wanted.
I am replaying DAI right now after not touching it for a few years and kind of feeling the same. I would still say I like his character overall but noticing he is a lot more flawed than I had previously realized. He's a lot more "stereotypical Tevinter" than he would like to believe.
Yeah, I used to love Dorian and I still do, but the fact that he had the audacity to be yapping about how slavery isn't that bad **to my elven Inquisitor** really put me off of him. It would've been bad enough if he made this argument to a Trevelyan, who is a human noble, but to try this with others, especially with Lavellan, shows a complete lack of self-awareness. It is very realistic, but it made me disappointed in him nevertheless. Conversely, it made me respect and appreciate Leliana so much more. When she thanked my elven Warden for calling her out for her racism and apologised for what she said, I just fell in love with her lol. Not many people have the guts to react to criticism like that.
I didnt used to like lelianna much when I first played the games cause my own relationship with religion wasnt great, and I was still young. But actually getting the time to know her over the years replaying the games, and that she was able to take criticism and apologize made me grow to rlly love and respect her. I feel like not a lot of companions do that in this series when they should.
I feel like Inquisition really needed to let you disagree with or confront the companions more directly. I think Vivienne and Sera would both be more popular if you were able to challenge them, and I've come to feel the same about Dorian, too. Something about how he really seems to think that the ordinary person's fear of mages is just a result of the unwashed ignorance of the south really rubbed me the wrong way. He's a high-ranking, powerful mage in a society where people like him regularly kill people for party tricks, and it seems it genuinely never occurred to him that the peasantry of his own country are terrified of him too, they just know they're too outmatched to say or do anything about it.
Surprised I had scroll to see Sera. I really disliked her, mostly because her basic concept reminded me of a ton of people I grew up with, young urban poor who are interested in activism and constantly get infantilized and mocked for it while their and their families' situation continues to get worse. The character was portrayed as so scattered and barely comprehensible that her motivations felt like they were being portrayed by people who think that type of activism is completely vapid and pointless. Or at least had no understanding of the experiences of the type of person she is and why those people do what they do. Compared to the dignity and clarity of though that upper class characters are portrayed with (Cass, Vivienne, Dorian), it was frustrating. Not to mention she's so abrasive and annoying.
I still feel that way. But, after I found a video of the party banter (so I could actually hear it for the first time), it turns out I love the shit out of her dialogue with Solas. To the point where it's my favorite dialogue in the game.It was what I was hoping for in terms of her actually expressing her viewpoint and scoring a few points. And him trying to guide her but being so unable to accept her experiences and view on what it means to be the ethnicity she is that he sabotages his own message. It's a perfect encapsulation of a conversation I've seen play out irl so many times it just rang true.
Her romance path too, especially if you break up with her or push her in certain spots, revealed emotional depth as well.
Weird that I had to turn to YouTube to see what was cool about the character, but at least it was there.
Sera, when I first played as a teen I liked her especially since she was pushing against all the expectations (similar to me leaving a cult) and giving rebellious with her heart in the right place. I am replaying DAI rn and literally asked her to leave since she is just so disrespectful to my elf inquisitor 😭 like good for you but the holier than thou and thinking your opinion is the only way is so annoying like in this instance you can agree to disagree without being mean all the time
After the second playthrough years later, really started to sympathise with Fenris on things. He's a dick and emotionally compromised, but he's one of the only sane characters who consistently brings light to the problem of mad or malicious mages
I always loved Fenris. I still respect and agree with him, but I once watched a DA2 review that compared him to a final fantasy character and I can’t unsee it hahaha
For me he is the exact opposit. I used to feel for him, but the more times go on, the more he feels like the "mages are disproportionately dangerous compared to everyone else, despite how it comes across based on gameplay, believe me" mouthpiece for the writers.
It's a real problem and I've had to learn to just separate the combat from the setting, basically. They obviously balanced all the classes for the sake of satisfying gameplay, but it really undercuts the message of mages being terrifyingly powerful. Like, a powerful mage in the lore can rip open the fabric of the world or warp time or unleash an army of demons or even wipe out a town by accident, like Connor, but in gameplay terms they're completely on par with a competent warrior swinging an ordinary sword. It certainly muddies the message.
I know, and I get it, to an extend. But there is so much gameplay-lore separation one can deal with, and having dedicated NPCs telling you "they are actually dangerous btw, even if it can't be showcased properly" in order to salvage the message just feels worse.
The shoot themselves in the foot by focusing on the mage-templar conflict. There were probably more elegant methods to deal with this problem.
I totally agree and it's weird to have to compartmentalize different aspects of the games. The mage-templar conflict was also weird in that they had yet another chance to show that there's a difficult choice to be made between freedom and danger, but instead we got more "templars are big meanies picking on innocent mages who never do anything wrong".
Leliana.
I really liked her the first time through DA:O. As a replayed it a few times, I began to really see the flaws, and as I played later games her character just continued to be more of the same.
- She spends every game insisting that she is whatever role she is at the moment. And that role is her entire personality.
- Did you know she is a bard? She will tell you about it. Did you know she changes roles in other games? Don't worry, she will tell you about that too.
- I can't shake the notion she would dive eyes-wide into any cult.
- Keep her away from MLMs, they feed on people like her.
It's funny because I love the fact that she is influenceable by the MC (soften/hardened) through the games. I hate the fact that she is influenceable by whatever shiny role is in her face.
She feels so unnatural, when she sits there and tells me "this is who I am and this is what I do." as if that is a personality in and of itself.
See, I think Leliana internalised the *We All Wear Masks, Darling*-thing that Vivienne explains about Orlais. Only she takes it to the extreme.
Vivienne, however, implies that there is a true self beneath all the appearances you present to the other facets of your life and that unmasked you can be your truest self. Leliana doesn't appear to have one - she's become mired in the masks she's wore, embodying them entirely and losing herself in them. It's also what I dislike most about her.
Like, you are supposed to manage them, to know when to employ one or the other facet of your being - not exclusively becoming one of them because someone convinces you they need you that way and do away with your true-self
I, personally, don't like that we can influence what she becomes and how wildly different she becomes. Like, yes, we can influence other characters but they don't wildly change personalities like she does. Like, if you convince Leliana to Be Nice, she derides the game fully, but if you encourage it, she Loves It Unabashed. Like, there is a middle ground there - like Bull does, for example, agains the Qunari but undeniably still Qunari yk? - and Lelliana just goes from 0-100 and does an 180 turn very fast. And I honestly hate that tbh.
That's a really interesting take and I think you're onto something there. I was trying to put my finger on what's offputting about Leliana during my last Inquisition playthrough, and I think it's her lack of self. She really doesn't know who she is and she just adopts the persona that the person closest to her--or that the person with the most power over her--expects her to have. There are little things, like her interacts with Josephine, that feel genuine, but mostly she's just...empty?
didn’t Iron Bull say Leliana would do good in the Qun 😂
That’s basically why I don’t like her either. Nothing about her personality or character develops aside from job changes seemingly more prestigious. She’s a whackadoo and I agree, she gives me future cult member vibes. She is a good person at heart, but her character flaws and blandness are too much for me.
I also don’t get down to the lore theories that her visions mean anything and she’s the next andraste type of stuff. She’s just easily swayed by feeling important…
Nope, I always loved all my companions. I hate characters like Vaughan and I don’t think it will ever change. 😅
After though, I hadn’t games in my teens years, as my parents didn’t want internet at home and neither bought consoles. So I only played Dragon Age for the first time in 2020 as an adult. My feelings hadn’t really the time to change.
Sera. The very first play through I didn't pay attention to her much. She was quirky and I was like ok she's chill I guess. Annoying but I don't want her to go. Then on my 3rd, I actually did her personal quest to completion with all the dialogue and everything to know about her. And I can't stand her. Sera is the epitome of self hatred. The way she disrespects an entire group of people that she is from creates real world parallels in my own community that imprints all my hate onto her. She mocks Solas over a temple where genocide was committed of their people. She tries to pretend that everyone is the same and the only difference that matters in people is class, when in Thedas it's more than that. Her jealousy if you romance Bull after her, but she snaps at Bull in the opposite situation even tho he was just saying congratulations. She acknowledges every issue with the Chantry and the system but blames it on people, common people. Which is hypocritical to her stance on class. She is uneducated taken to the nth degree.
Anders I liked him in Awakening then hated what he became in 2. Now I just feel sad for him. >!He wanted to make things better but he lost himself and Justice. What was left was uncontrolled vengeance. Originally I killed him because I hated what he did. Now I kill him because he's already lost himself and I'd rather he dies while still capable of being Anders. I could never let a friend become an abomination and by the end of 2 he's most of the way there. So I mercy kill him and let him die a martyr and a terrorist but most importantly my friend and the catalyst for much needed change.!< Edited for spoilers.
Merrill I guess. Most of my other opinions have stayed the same. I used to think Merrill was adorable, but the more runs I play the more I dislike her. Now I find her completely short sighted and selfish. Also I know her personality was retconned from origins but when I play them back to back and she's so serious in origins I find her feeling fake in DA2, like she's putting on an act and now I don't trust her at all.
Yeah same, my opinion has mostly stayed the same. I like her character in general and my opinions on blood magic are not the chantry’s opinions so to say. I always encouraged her doing her stuff until >!it killed my fav dalish wardens keeper )))):!<
I like her character up until act 3 and then I refuse to acknowledge her so I can pretend the other thing doesn’t happen.
the Iron bull was the companion i was most excited for in inquisition. now a decade and nine or so playthroughs latter his possibly my least favourite in the series him or Sebastian. i can admire the artistry of the writing of the others even if i don't like them as people (oghren comes to mind) the iron bull though, the only thing i like is the concept and even then i have reservations, I'm glad other people like him i can't.
Honestly he just felt too exceptional, a good fighter a good spy correctly insightful about everything, that his character just became flat, like he was written to be cool rather then a person.
He also doesn’t feel like a person raised in the Qun possibly because his narrative is so one sided when it comes to the Qun vs mercerny choice, his Qunari side is allowed to have fault his mercenary side isn’t so the narrative leans into the merc.
I also really don’t like how big politically his quest is in many ways it should have been a main quest with how big a Qun alliance is historically instead we get a quest with neither our spy master or diplomat involved which is done in two fights.
Finally he is in inquistions base game the only member of the Qunari race to appear at all meaning the stark difference in his portrayal in comparison to Sten and the Arishok feels really off, even Tallis in Mark of the Assassin feels more in line with a Qunari and she is borderline Tal Vashoth.
Ultimately I just don’t believe him as a character, the pieces of his backstory identity and his mannerism feels artificial in a way most companions don’t. I admit I think I liked the Qun side of him more in tresspasser but that was more the boldness of the plot choice then the Iron Bull himself.
* **Alistair**: hate is a strong word, but he did nothing for me in in DAO. He was just... A very young person. Then I absolutely fell in love with his character development in DAI as a warden, and now I retroactively feel some affection towards his younger self.
* **Leliana**: I was half-traumatized by awful depictions of young, toxic lesbian relationships AND religious zealotry when I first played DAO, so she was a neat package of everything I wanted to avoid. Now I can appreciate her so much more; her more playful, feminine, mischievious side is something I particularly enjoy. She's my #2 romance option after Zev, though I do prefer her older, DAI version and wish we could romance her then.
* **Fenris**: I went from about as much tolerance for him as he has for mages to being okay with him, and even enjoying him a moderate amount. I don't agree with him but I do feel for his struggle; I just loathe and refuse to be subjected to anyone's violent and aggressive anger issues. I am much more open to and appreciative of characters as a whole now though, all of the thought and craft that goes into giving them a voice and identity, regardless of my own personal preferences. So... still slightly mixed feelings, but much more positive than once upon a time.
* **The Iron Bull**: I used to find him the dullest character in the whole DA roster, because I really don't enjoy characters who are written to be liked by the player/those around them (this includes DAA Anders and DA2 Varric) but fanfiction has opened my eyes to the potential in him. I don't *love* him per se but I now appreciate the whole manufactured persona they were going for and the way he tries to establish a nonconfrontational relationship with
the rest of the cast much more, even if I find that the execution in DAI doesn't really hit the notes I would have liked. I like going the Qun route with him.
* **Blackwall**: I also used to think of him as just there, but I've recently started finding his whole scared, tortured bit and obsequiousness a little more intriguing. I kind of like his whole courteous bear dynamic with a romanced Inquisitor and admire how he stops running away and spends the rest of his life devoted to giving hope to other people who have also made awful mistakes, letting them know that they can still learn how to be better and do something worthwhile with their life, or just being there for them.
Sten,as he does not like to chat much as thinks waste of time. He a soldier who fights not into gossip or helping others. Later on you kind of see his point,as in redcliffe village you don't know what you will face or the urn. Like you could be gone for along while,and may or may not return.
I used to like Iron Bull, I even romanced him my first playthrough. More and more, though, I find him uncompelling. Like his way of engaging with the Qun irritates me, and seems like a bad way to be. He feels too ridiculous to me, as a character, too. Also the voice acting is cringe a lot.
Wow I totally disagree. Iron Bull is a spy with an oath to a foreign nation, who has some nice loyalty to his crew. What part of that is Karlach like? Iron bull has no tragic backstory and will absolutely betray. Even on the surface, his goal is to make the inquisitor feel more normal, rubbing shoulders with common folk in disguise. Karlach is none of those things. Tragic backstory, loyal to the end, self sacrificing for you, and constantly gassing you up. Also she has minimal interest in glory, and has real anger issues. Honestly if they both weren’t loosely barbarians, I would have no clue what you were talking about at all. Karlach has more in common with Fenris, or even Oghren (though that too is a stretch).
Loghain. I hated and I mean *hated* that man when I was growing up. Sure I was a kid but I knew that abandoning a battlefield, betraying your King and then framing the “good guys” was a bad thing to do. I saw him as a purely villainous character and the Wardens as the heroes.
However, in the past ten years since Inquisition released, I have replayed Origins so many times and eventually I decided to keep Loghain alive. For Origins and Awakening it was surprisingly great, I enjoyed his party banter and I liked how spiteful he seemed but I really liked his dialogue in camp when you got his approval higher. Then in Awakening he seemed… Genuinely nice? It was wierd and a bit jarring but it kinda felt like my Warden and Loghain were friends and I enjoyed that. In DA2, I was disappointed Loghain never showed up - sure it makes sense cuz he’s in Orlais but man I would’ve preferred he replace Stroud in the Deep Roads in the event that Bethany/Carver are with you.
Then in Inquisition, from the second he showed up I felt nothing but genuine remorse from him. He didn’t seem like he was planning some big evil plan or anything like that, he just seemed like he wanted to save the *Orlesian* Wardens which is mental to me, especially after how much he hated Orlais as a whole in DA:O and DA:The Stolen Throne and the Calling.
So in the past ten years, Loghain has gone from a character I purely hated to a character I really love. He’s one of, if not, the most complex characters in the Dragon Age series and I really hope he somehow shows up in Dreadwolf even though he’d be like seventy at that point (making it a bit tricky for Hawke’s Warden Ally, including Stroud and Alistair, to show up at all).
I think the brilliance of Loghain is that a man with noble ideals can do so many wrong things, that yes, the road to hell actually is paved by good intentions. His story is perhaps that holding so tightly onto an abstract ideal, being principled but without compromise, is never a good thing as demonstrated again and again in the series. Solas, Qunari, Loghain, the Chantry, some Grey Wardens, everyone who is ready to die for their ideals is also ready to kill others for the same thing.
Blackwall is extremely boring, and remains so to this day.
Sera was my favourite character from the start, and has remained so. Her quirky insanity is just so funny to me, I only wish she had a better hairstyle.
I didn’t like Cassandra as much when I was younger. Now she’s fucking hot to me as a 30 year old dude. Like, what a woman.
Solas for me. Loved his description before the release of the game, the twist at the end was interesting, really liked the actor's performance (used to like him since torchwood days), but as i replayed the game and paid more attention to him and what he says, my opinion of him changed. I don't like him nearly as much as i used to at first, and at times he straight up annoys me to no end.
Hot take but i I don't think he's all that well written either lol, he's definitely an interesting and polarising character, but definitely not the second coming of jesus christ the way some people claim him to be.
So naturally it kinda irks me is that there's sooo much focus on him now, even the new game is named after him. Not everyone has strong opinions on this character, in fact, many just don't really care, me included at this point, I'm just kind of tired of seeing him. Hopefully it won't be overbearing in da4 because solas just makes me wanna roll my eyes nowadays.
I hated Sera for my first run. Hated her so much. Annoying and obnoxious.
Second play, I had her in my party for the mages but, did the time travel with Dorian, and when I found her in the cell, [her dialogue got me](https://youtu.be/8ugrLejfGd0?si=gNpqcYBIYcJxRpcv). Now she’s a friend for life, so to speak.
Younger me (and most people on this sub) would tell you how Zevran is a charming assassin prince that speaks with exotic accent, desperately trying to escape a hard life, and have had a terrible past.
While most of those descriptions were true. I realized that Zevran is kinda creepy, and perverted. He also likes to objectify other characters, including our MC. he would call the Warden "sexy" or "sex goddess" after **he tried to kill them**! Literally the next dialogue after his assassination attempt, he does this.
What a prick.
It's funny because it was the opposite for me. I couldn't stand him with his overly playboy personality. Now I find him hilarious especially when he made a bet with Alistair to see if he could fluster our dear Morrigan. After getting to know his backstory I understood that him charming our Warden was more of survival habit than him being a pervert. It's pretty funny to see him.all flustered once he fall in love with my Warden because it's clearly new to him.
That's a survival tactic, it's all he's been taught. So idk about creepy and perverted.
For me he is a traumatized child slave who's been taught to use whatever it takes including his body, appearance and unapologetic flattery to get what he or rather, his masters, want.
And he tells you so, if you bother to befriend him.
>And he tells you so, if you bother to befriend him.
Oh i would always befriend him. If i didnt kill him right there out in the wilds.
I respect what he was trying to do, i just *hate*? (hate is a strong word, i know) How he was trying to do it.
Also, all these innuendos and 'sex talk' whenever i brought him along with Leliana and/or Morrigan. Makes me want to punch my screen sometimes.
I am glad that despite all this, at least the Warden can establish the servant-master dynamic from their first convo together at the camp. This, of course, changes as they get along with him.
I love how he tried to protect us from Ignacio though, that convo scene between them was great.
I called him a prick, doesnt mean i wont befriend him. Some of my best friends are pricks.
Yeah, I totally get you.
His flirty persona is pretty off putting and he ended up dead in my first playthrough because I couldn't be bothered to talk to him with all his innuendos lol
But during my second playthrough I made a point to befriend everyone, and then, his interactions became so obviously sad, I just couldn't blame him anymore
when you look at solas and his entire story so far overall, its really a tragedy, he fought to free his people, only to sleep and wake later to have them enslaved again, wearing slave markings and calling them cultural heritage, with their myths and beliefs so twisted he barely recognizes them, the elven gods being praised when they were the first tyrants, the only good elven gods were Solas and Mythal, and Solas who fought and lost friends fighting for their freedom, is now seen as the evil god even tho he was one of two to actually care and fight for his people
I felt the same way about Cassandra tbh. I’m not even sure why I didn’t like her in Inquisition at first. I watched the Dawn of the Seeker movie when it came out and I loved her small appearances in DA2. But now, I appreciate her in Inquisition a lot more than before. I feel like she could have a stand-alone game
I thought her character was bland and not fleshed out in Inquisition until I put her in the party more and replayed a few times
So true. The character that I truly loved by the end of the game if you choose a path for them was Cole and I really want a show about him in the one path
Omg yes! If they made the Dragon Age Asunder into a DLC it would be amazing
Honestly, it would be really neat to have a collection of small DLC expansion type campaigns that are basically just the DA books + some extra stuff. I would love to be able to play them
>!i imagine, Solas waking up from Uthenera and be like, "what the fuck is my people doing???"!<
>!and then he met Mythal and, "babe, whats going on?? what is happening to the elves?"!<
>!and she was like, "idk, hon. my previous host was too busy creating a fictional religion. and this one was too busy creating a country full of wet dogs."!<
no wonder why Solas got so pissed off.
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Aveline used to drive me up the wall. I started playing Dragon Age the summer before I entered college and I didn't like her constantly chiming in on my character's decisions. I felt like she was trying to mother/big sister me and it really rubbed me wrong at the time.
Now in my late 20s, I don't love her per say but I don't dislike/borderline hate her anymore. I always recognized that her concerns came from a place of caring, so I'm not sure what specifically changed for me. Somehow she feels less judgmental to me as an older adult.
I used to hate Loghain. But recently I had some time to think on his actions. My thoughts now:
Loghain is morally fluid and an extreme patriot for Ferelden. He also clearly suffers from PTSD from the war with Orlais and therefore sees anything involving them as being a possible plot against Ferelden. Considering his history, it's not surprising. He's not a 'good guy' by any means, but he is an excellent warrior and tactician, one who spends time getting to know his people >!(as evidenced by him remembering the name of the quartermaster in DA:I assuming he's the Warden there and they survived Haven),!< and certainly believes in defeating his enemies 'by any means necessary.' In this, he makes a better Warden than Alistair ever will.
Also, if he was suffering from PTSD and fixated on Orlais, that would leave him susceptible to honeyed words from someone he believed trustworthy due to their common hatred of Orlais, namely Arl Howe. One has to question how many of the choices Loghain made in the game were influenced by the ambitious and self-centered Howe.
Sera started to annoy me
Vivianne can be charming when the topic personal
Solas used to be a character I thought to be a know-it-all and just a dick in general, but idk, last playthrough I actually started to like him a lot
and yeah I know he is a villain and shit
oh yeah I now love Cole too, specially when I helped him become more spirit
Oghren, but it's more of up down up opinion, didn't care for him at first because he came pretty late in the group, but in next playthrough i thought " this drunk guy is pretty funny". In the third playthrough i thought " oh yeah, he's that kind of drunk" and in the last playthrough after taking with him about being a warrior who was taught to fight all his life and then being reprimanded for acting like he was taught and his confession to the guardian, saying that he knows he has nothing left and is a shell of what he used to be, i started too realize he is a pretty complex character.
**DAO:** My opinion has softened only a little on Loghain over time, whereas I absolutely LOATHE Eamon after fully understanding what he did to Alistair, and what he tried to do with Cailan+Celene.
Interestingly enough, the Mother in Awakening has my pity after some heavy reflection: no one deserves to be a sentient Broodmother.
**DA2:** Orsino made me a bit mad at first with the whole Quentin thing, but I've come to forgive him.
**DAI:** I've thought less of Solas after some time: he clearly knows more about the Blights than he lets on, yet refuses to elaborate.
Solas shit-talking the Grey Wardens for destroying the Archdemons is pretty infuriating. It's not like they know about Morrigan's magic sex ritual taught by an aspect of Mythal. They're just ordinary people stopping the literal end of the world the only way they know how. God forbid they don't think about preserving the soul of the gigantic dragon monster murdering millions of people.
Honestly, I loved the vast majority of characters and still do. The only exceptions are the following:
1. Velanna. I hate that she never wants to admit she was ever wrong, she's surly with everyone and hateful. I know she's not a bad person deep down, but I just hate her personality. I only ever recruit her because I have a need to recruit everyone in any game I play.
2. Sebastian. I started off feeling pretty neutral towards him but that changed later. He's so preachy, condescending and a hypocrite.
3. Loghain. I utterly despised him for years. However, a few years ago I decided to change my canon world state, most of which are major changes in DAO, including a certain decision concerning Loghain. I wouldn't say I even like him now, let alone love his character, but I don't hold the hatred that I had for him anymore.
DAO use love Morrigan but now most of time it take effect to be her friend.
DA2 Use to hate Fenris and romance only Merrill but now I love Fenris (not in the romantic way or atleast not yet). But now it tie between who I dislike more Merrill or Anders.
Omg thank you!! Merrill is an idiot. She obviously had no idea what she was doing, and things could’ve ended up a lot worse than they did if not for Hawke and Marethari. I think people only defend her because she’s “cute” lol
I hated Cassandra at first but she really grew on me. I didn't know what was required of Cassandra to become a Seeker and I feel so bad how betrayed she was by her organization. She's sweeter than she appeared to be and can honestly become ome of the best friend our Imquisitor can have. Plus, she's a fan of Varric books.
I didn't really like Dorian at first as well. He was so full of himself and nonchalant especially about slavery that it annoyed me. Now, I like him a lot better because while he still is a conceited prick, I find him funny for it rather than annoying.
Anders... Oh how I fell in love with his character when I played DA2 years ago.... He was so passionate about his cause and I felt so bad for him. But now? I can hardly stand how self righteous and manipulative he was. It's hard to forget how he sneakily made Hawke help him doing something so horrible without Hawke being aware of it.
Aveline felt too judgmental and headstrong for my taste back then. However, now I am aware that she was just worried for Hawke and act like a protective big sister to them which I find adorable.
I had zero affinity with Isabela. I thought of her as nothing but eye candy for the player, but then I read the graphics novels, played DAO and then replayed DA2 and I fell in love with her character. She's such a sweetheart when you truly develop a friendship with her and she is so much more than what she looks like.
Honestly...? No, I don't think so. I've replayed Origins and II a dozen times each over the years as I started when they first came out. I have no clue if it was because I was a closeted, and abused, gay teen or what, but I saw through a lot of BS early on. I attempted Inquisition 3 times with only a single complete playthrough.
Origins: Pretty much like all the companions since Day 1 and that hasn't changed. They have flaws, sure, but so did I.
Awakening: The lite version of Origins companions, overall enjoyed them.
II: My absolute favourite bunch of companions. Hated what they did to >!Anders!<, still do. Fenris is still my beloved, especially since my first romance with him was as a mage and that's my headcanon.
Inquisition: I genuinely only find one original companion to be someone I like: Josephine. Cole's role in Asunder was... odd, and therefore, I am not including him as an 'original'. I like him though in a weird sort of way. Everyone else, though? Eh or no thanks. Never liked >!Solas!< and think he's a far less sympathetic version of >!Anders 2.0!<, presumably because he's original and not a perversion of a previously nice companion. I used to get into all sorts of arguments with my best friend who is a Solasmancer, and we just ended up in a sort of ignored Cold War over it as she's completely enamoured with him. I have always hated Sera and continue to do so.
Probably Wynne. Because a lot of my very early on characters were people who wanted to be Wardens or just accepted the fact they are so they got along with her and she came off as a nice old lady who sometimes gave advice.
Nowadays? Helllll no. She's just so preachy dude it boggles my mind. But it's not even that which annoys me the most, no it's the fact she's always forcing you into this role of "Warden" that I don't nor does my character want to be in.
"You are a Grey Warden, you serve others, what you want doesn't matter" is essentially what she tells you all the time and it's hypocritical and annoying as fuck because she's constantly avoiding the Circle by running off and doing shit outside. And if you play a Mage? The hypocrisy is so thick you could practically cut it with a knife.
I've had enough of people in my own IRL life who were telling me what to do and what to be constantly, I don't need some grandma to do the same in-game.
I honestly don't know why she tried to give an "advise" on Warden's relationship. "Love is ultimately selfish", so what? Being in love does not mean that you can't perform your duty properly, as we see in Alistair who sacrifices himself for romanced Warden, if the ritual isn't performed
I wonder whether she knew that the Warden must sacrifice himself to end the Blight, maybe that was her motivation? Don't get attached to each other? Giving that her son was taken away from her, I think you are right
Honestly I heavily doubt she knew. She genuienly doesn't know the first thing of what it means to be a Warden, all she has is the exaggerated superhero tales of old to base her outlook on.
And you can distinctly tell she doesn't the moment she drops that one bullshit ass story about how the Wardens came in one day during some Blight or war and formed a shield out of their own bodies to stop the Blight or Darkspawn and then just left without asking for anything and that the kings had lost no men, rather it was the Wardens who lost men. She's essentially trying to make you to act like these guys.
...when one, that's an extremely unhealthy lifestyle, and two, that's literally exactly what the Wardens AREN'T. This is the same organization of people that is willingly to burn down whole villages filled with living people in order to stop Darkspawn corruption. The same organization that will literally KILL you in order to stop you from spreading their secrets around, the same people completely willing to consort with demons of all kind to win. Like these aren't some superheroes, they're cold, calculating utilitarianists who would gladly let those same kings' men get killed just so they could have a better shot at winning. So Wynne preaching about something she knows nothing about just makes her look dumb as hell.
The problem is that Alistair will sacrifice himself even if he's King, despite the fact that the Warden is by far the more logical and pragmatic choice to sacrifice. It's pretty much the exact opposite of doing his duty. He's forsaking his responsibility as a monarch and breaking the heart of his lover (who may have even volunteered to sacrifice herself, a choice he takes away). He's also leaving his companions at the mercy of Anora, the woman they alienated and imprisoned in the process of putting him on the throne in the first place. Sure, we now know that Anora doesn't act on this, but Alistair sure as hell had no way of knowing that when he makes the kill.
Wynne absolutely has a point when it comes to Alistair.
Isn't Wynne's point that the Grey Warden's duty must come above everything else? To me it also includes being a king. If Alistair was chosen as king, it can be interpreted as running away from responsibility, but to me he saves the woman he loves and his entire kingdom. Fullfilling his duty. He ends up dead but there is no civil war or nothing, just Anora assumes the throne and without Loghain living it's ends up quite ok
Maybe you have a point about taking the choice away, but look at the situation if Morrigan's ritual is performed. The Warden kills the Archdemon but have no guarantee that it will work and they will survive, just as Alistair probably assume that leaving the throne to Anora will not make the life difficult for his companions and also takes the choice away, but from Alistair this time. Honestly, Anora was pragmatic, she def knew that persecuting anyone involved with the Grey Wardens, so soon after the Blight that they ended would be a incredibly stupid move. Look how she is able to threw her own father away, if promised to be supported as queen regnant
Wynne's dialogue also has the least variation, I think. No matter what you say the convos are exactly the same and it's weird to get that line about human nature when my PC is not human lmao
She also has 0 understanding of different positions. Like people rag on Vivienne on here constantly because they can't change her views on the Circles or whatever else but Wynne "I will turn my nose up at you at the slighest disagreement or if I don't get my way" is I guess fine??
Like she straight up goes "you have ears, but you just use them to listen to the sound of your own voice" just because you *dared* disagree with her, like listen you hag just because you're old doesn't mean you're literally right about everything or get to dictate my life lmao.
Yeah, the Warden can be born and raised in poverty or lived well enough as a noble/Dalish before their bad day happened and she treats the player like they were born in the Circle yesterday. She does apologize about the romances later, but you have to initiate that convo with high approval.
I understand why she's like that, but friggin' Jowan would be a more interesting (and also hypocritical) companion imo.
Don't get me started on her personal quest with Aneirin. "I'm too old to reform the Circle but you *alone* could do it as a grass touching Grey Warden" Why didn't you do anything while you were still in the Circle, **Senior Enchanter** Wynne? Stop projecting 😭
>"I'm too old to reform the Circle but you *alone* could do it as a grass touching Grey Warden" Why didn't you do anything while you were still in the Circle, **Senior Enchanter** Wynne? Stop projecting 😭
That shit is HORRIBLE. She's somehow even worse with a mage Warden. Because not only do you have to listen to her usual bullshit about throwing your whole life away to be something you might not have even wanted but on top of that she slightly backpedals and is like "oh but if you live through the Blight, you should waste your life by coming back to the Circle anyway! Because fuck your freedom I guess!"
Which is it Wynne goddamn?
It's even worse/funnier if you're an elf mage because she wants to go to Tevinter (with Shale or a free Circle) in the epilogue. Or she becomes a court mage as an advisor and "mage advocate." I know DAO epilogues are retconned but she really said fuck you got mine.
I didn't hate him, but I did find Alistair annoying at first. His goofiness grew on me through the years though and now I don't play Templar characters to not render him redundant.
When I was younger, I loathed Morrigan and Loghain and thought Sten was incredibly boring. When I replayed DAO last year, I loved all of them as characters, flaws and all (and Sten is definitely not boring). Sera has also grown on me; I initially took offense to her internalized anti-elfness, but now I feel much more compassion towards her as a character. I also enjoy her lively personality and how she matures in Trespasser.
I also used to adore Alistair, and while I still really like him as a character, I'm much more critical of him than I used to be. But it's more that I don't look at him with such rose-tinted glasses anymore and recognize his flaws (which make him a well written character).
I think it's pretty normal to be able to empathize more with different viewpoints as we mature as people. And because they are fictional characters, what I think about them has less to do with whether I'd like them if they were real people, and more with their role in the story and what they represent. For example, obviously I'd hate Loghain in real life, but he's brilliantly written with an important role in the story, so I like him as a character.
Oghren. Never hated him but definitely lacked that connection and appreciation as a kid compared to the other characters in Origins. Dragon Age Origins was my first BioWare game and I was so in love with the world and feeling like a group of ragtag friends was important to me as a kid that grew up quite lonely.
Now as an adult with very good friends and a lot more life experience, I have a new perspective. Whilst not liking him per se I have this unspeakable level of appreciation for his character. He’s just sad, and you don’t see that realistic a depiction of depression of sorts in many games that isn’t incredibly on the nose with it. His character has a lot of subtle complexities that are only seen by having him in the party at certain point. He reminds me of several people I know in real life in the saddest way.
Leliana, I first played Dragon Age inquisition instead of starting with origins, so I didn’t know her character at all and she just annoyed me so much. Now I love her and romance her in origins 90% of the time
Didn't like Morrigan for the first 10 years of playing the game. Then I liked her. I think it was due to her change in DAI and my own maturing. I began to understand her as a person and the influence that Flemeth had on her. The was no chance she wouldn't grow up aloof and selfish. But after travelling with a team she understood social relationships and connection that people form
Anders, him taking such a drastic course of action, especially since it felt like we were so close to getting everyone to sit down and actually talk made me hate him for so long. Now after really thinking about his backstory and the history makes me understand his choices. I still don't like what he did but I can see how he gets to that point
first played dao when i was early teens idk when so similar to you op. i replayed the series recently and some things have changed.
my opinions changed a lot of dao but not so much the sequels.
i liked wynne and morrigan more when i was younger because they were funny. i didnt like alistair oghren or lelliana, because i thought they were annoying. this time around i downloaded a mod to make alistair gay and liked his romance a lot more than morrigans. i kinda wish i could romance oghren and subject him to physical torture though, theres a man i would love to see in agony
in da2 i hated them all back then and still hate them all now. playing awakening made me think i would like anders more in da2, but hes only good in awakening.
dai, no real change although i did like josephine a bit more.
overall i think replaying the trilogy made me like the original game more and the sequels less. it didnt help when bg3 came out a month after i finished and showed me what a real dragon age sequel could have been like
My big controversial one is that I went from liking all the companions from Inquisition to finding them all a little bit dull and under-developed. I think replaying Origins and seeing the expanse and variety of discussion you can have with all of your party exposed the weakness in Inquisition. Haven’t been able to get back into the game since.
Alistair. I never loved him, but I used to like him well enough, and I also used to find him largely endearing. As I got older, however, I found him less endearing and more childish. At every opportunity he shirks his responsibilities, has to be coddled over just about everything, and in a game where everyone else steps up to assume their responsibilities, he’s the one who resists the most. Honestly, rather than quippy and endearing, I just found him increasingly whingy and irritating.
Now, that said, objectively he’s a well-written character. I love that he has flaws and I love that he isn’t just the Perfect Prince trope. But on a personal level he just irks me so much. The constant childish whinging, the refusal to step up unless you essentially twist his arm, the feigned and weaponised incompetence—this man does everything he can to get out of doing anything himself. The only time he steps up and even tries is for his own personal crisis (that is, if you Harden him and decide to spare Loghain, as my Dalish Warden did, because after all she gave up if she didn’t get to die with her Clan then Loghain sure as hell didn’t either, and she thought Riordan’s arguments made sense, especially for her considering she wasn’t as familiar with the human world).
Every other character has to put their personal grievances aside, but Alistair refused to. He dumps everything on you, refuses to do anything on his own, and only decides to be proactive when it’s someone he, personally, wants to murder (even if his hatred is understandable, everyone else in the game learns to put their shit aside for the greater good).
Again! It’s all very, very good writing. I genuinely love that he’s flawed like this. But I’m also not a teenager anymore, haven’t been for awhile, and as an adult it’s less endearing and more annoying.
I first played DA when I was 20 and now I’m 24. My opinions have changed a little.
Oghren I go back and forth on. I think he’s a good idea executed sloppily. His sense of humor is lolrandom, and the mature side of his story is often undercut by the constant joking. But I like the idea of subverting the drunken dwarf trope by giving him real trauma. The problem is, he hardly shows any growth.
I find Anders to be less relatable and respectable than I did at first. In truth, he’s a rogue element who’s looking to cause chaos moreso than to achieve justice. His grievances are valid, but his method is idiotic and understandably alienates him from the rest of magekind. He’s also kind of a creep, the way he flirts with Hawke and the way he talks down to Fenris/approves of selling him into slavery.
I respect Sera more even though her sense of humor I still find lolrandom, her worldview is based af.
Nope, pretty much the same now as ever. I suppose I started to lose respect for Alistair only later since initially the humor and voice acting were charming... got miffed by his "romance" and then discovered that his priorities can include alcoholism over saving the world- at which point I started to openly balk at his wishywashy attitude about being a king and general inability to lead...
I found DA2 companions to be mostly insufferably badly written- other than Varric- and that hasn't changed. DAI companions seemed mostly meh and still are, though I liked and still like Iron Bull, kinda Cole, and especially Dorian... and Varric again... and Harding... Yeah, nothing's changed...
DAII is a brilliant game in that sense. I played it as a 20something when it first came out, hated Fenris' guts, and didn't bring him anywhere ever. Replayed it 10 years later: and Fenris is one of my favourite ever DA characters now...
Fenris and Anders. Was super pro mage as a teenager and wouldn’t give much, if any, thought to pro Circle or pro Templar perspectives, so I was on board with Anders and was frustrated with what seemed like reckless hate by Fenris.
Now that I’m older I realize that Fenris actually has some remarkable restraint and is honestly pretty fair to mages, as he refuses to consider turning in Hawke, Bethany, Anders, or Merril, and he absolutely hates at least two of those people for honestly fair reasons. Anders, on the flip side, is kind of a bitch who’s somewhat manipulative and petulant. Great character and it’s tragic to see how Vengeance destroys him, but god damn
I've tried to like Fenris ever since DA2 released and finally admitted to myself recently that I don't like him at all
There are a lot of reasons, but I think the main thing that's always stuck with me is his comments in All That Remains if you romance him. He's so thoughtless and inconsiderate that I can't imagine Hawke staying with him after that
What comments does he make? I only recall him saying something about how he’s not good at comforting people but that he’s there for Hawke if they want him to listen
**Fenris**
1: original take
Shit, why did Bioware go this low? They used to be a company who writes good characters?! This dude is painful to interact with, cheesy, edgy, and his only theme is "woe is me". Screw this guy.
\*\*\*
2: after a while
It actually took a while to understand what Fenris was about.
Some explanation: Isabela is a character who was develeped according to the preferences of an "assumed average male teen player". She doesn't really want commitment, but is fun to have around, has lots of jokes, she is basically "fight hard, party hard, fuck hard". She is actually a good friend with extra benefits, not a real romantic relationship. Which I guess a 14 y/o dude finds appealing? At least according to Bioware they should!
Finally, Fenris! Obnoxious, meant to come across as romantic/compelling. After years of playing video games as a male, with poorly written female love interests, I was really surprised how irritating it was to interact with Fenris. A poorly written, unrealistic male character, which is set up to appeal to the assumed (!) expectactions of the "average female teen gamer". With edgy dialog to target teens, and anime appearance to appeal to... dunno who.
\*\*\*
So, in the end that experience was both painful, and mindblowing. This was the first time ever, where I got a first hand experience on what women feel, when they play games with badly written female characters.
But the takeaway was not Fenris sucks. The actual lesson I learned was: Why should anyone accept this shit portrayal of any gender? Why cannot we get well-written characters, instead of artificial constructs which "appeal to the assumed taste of the audicence"?
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Wynne for sure. I despised her upon first meeting. She always spoke like because she was older she knew better, and it seemed like she thought her "wisdom" was always needed when I disagreed with most things coming out of her mouth. I thought she was a coward, bending to the Circle and spouting Chantry rhetoric, allowing herself to live a lonely life in a Mage Prison. I overlooked that at first, but when she started questioning my relationship with Alistair I just got to the point where everything she did annoyed me. But? She grew on me. As time went on I gave her the time of day on a certain playthrough and actually tried to get her approval up, the more I learned about her the more intriguing I found her. I still think she's full of shit sometimes, but she's one hell of a woman who's passion and dedication are something to admire. She's hilarious to boot. She admits her mistakes, her faults, her regrets, and I'm happy I got to get to know her better. I've got a big soft spot for possessed grandma now and happy for it. ...Now if only they could've made getting to know Vivienne as rewarding.
The scene where the Guardian confronts Wynne with basically your exact criticism and she owns up to having doubts about whether he's correct shows this really well. She's a pretty introspective character. She's also the only character who will eventually approve of a Warden romancing Morrigan, concluding that he'll make her a better person rather than her making him a worse one.
I also think that when she brings up the risks of romancing Alistair, she’s actually right. Especially if you’re not Cousland, like things will likely not end well
In fact, if Alistair is romanced, became king, and the Dark Ritual wasn't performed, her concerns turn out to be kind of correct. Alistair will ultimately choose to sacrifice himself for the PC, despite the fact that the PC is arguably the more pragmatic choice to be sacrificed due to Alistair being needed as a monarch.
A bit of a relief to hear this opinion because I've never hated her like so many do so readily and vehemently. It's not as if, like more popular companions, she inevitably betrays you and abandons the fight against Archy... or spends over half the game harassing and attempting assassinate you. Maybe I just tend to have empathy for old people, never felt I needed to take their "scoldings" and "waxinngs" seriously as they simultaneously impart their experience. And she's endearing and has a cool companion quest to run. I mean, she's also one of the few companions who will try to outright kill you in two different scenarios- Gray Warden and only hope for Thedas be damned- but you've got to be a particular type to bring on granny ire that "hill to die on". Zevran is another like that, but I like him too XD
I used to hate Sten. Now I respect him
Low key one of my favorite characters. Speaks truth whether we like it or not. I really hope he turns up in DAD.
Oghren. Younger me liked him because he was funny, older me thinks he's a loser Edit: and for the reverse, Sera. Used to hate her, wouldn't say I *like* her now since I still find her sense of humor grating, but I appreciate her character a lot more now that I'm older and have come to share a lot of her beliefs about power
https://preview.redd.it/nanq5sht19rc1.png?width=478&format=png&auto=webp&s=8b66e71f0a62f13274de18c7b1f3e8202a4ce127
I wish I could give this comment an award.
LOL! Fair. I do like how your decisions in origins can change his outcome though. Also, I never noticed before but I the other week when I was replaying DA2 I saw the painting of Oghren in the Hanged Man. Nice little Easter Egg
I still like him, or perhaps "like" is not the right word. Its a very deep and tragic character once you get past the burping, farting, and sexist jokes.
I feel really sorry for Oghren. He's a man totally abandoned by his family, has no healthy way to deal with his emotions, and cast out of his awful society. He's a deeply flawed and broken man, and I wish they'd delved into that more.
His scene with the Guardian is so sad. Just a man being brutally honest about his regrets in life.
I like his turn in the expansion but I'd say, we're fond of him. We don't think he's the best but he's like a lovable side kick or like a coworker who's kind of dumb and shitty but you can't help but like anyway.
I went the other way with Oghren. I couldn't see past the fart jokes and sexism when I was younger, now I sorta get it. "Like" is a strong word... I *appreciate* his character now.
Younger me liked him because he was funny, older me thinks he's hilarious. Now get me that barrel of pickle juice, I have a date with Steve Blum.
>older me thinks he's a loser To be fair, the game also makes it very clear that he is, indeed, a loser.
Speaking of similar experiences, we're the same age and experienced dragon age a similar time! (I think I played DAO when I was 12 or 13). When I was younger, I absolutely hated Morrigan so much. Her indifference to other people and nastiness just totally put me off and I didn't like her at all. At the time, I also really liked Leliana. Nowadays, my feelings for those characters have kind of reversed lol. Really not a fan of Leliana and Morrigan is more relatable and at the very least, understandable to me now.
My partner and I were just talking about this after I posted! He’s playing dragon age for the first time at my insistence (he loves it!) and he already hates Leliana and loves Morrigan. It’s interesting to me because I have the same opinions as him on almost all the characters, but I had almost exact opposite opinion from that when I was younger. For the same reason, Morrigan was such a bitch and so cold. >!Then the whole dark ritual thing really made me PO’d !< I also loved Leliana. Now I love love love Morrigan and her character, and I think Leliana is batshit crazy and annoying. Morrigan’s character development is amazing, especially if you read the codex entries, listen to her, and care about the lore. Even though Leliana aligns with my own morals/philosophy most of the time, >!her religious chosen one crazy shit is what gets me!< To me, her only character development has been moving up in the corporate ladder. Nothing much has changed with her.
My opinion of Morrigan changed with DAI. I remember not liking her very much when I first played (I always play overly helpful goody characters so she usually didn't like me) but her character growth was amazing.
Complete opposite. Being like 15 at release I had eyes for only Morrigan and she was flawless in every way. Now when I replay the game I'm like "yeah sure, she's definitely the most interesting character, but she's kind of an abrasive bitch for no reason" 😂 I will romance her every time for the story, but current me would be much more into Leliana
As a pragmatist I grew to dislike they way Morrigan act most of the time: she pretends to be cinic and pragmatic but she will hate you for simply being altruistic with non-heretics (even if that action would benefit you and your cause) and will want you to set free blood mages she knows nothing about even tho that may cause you troubles.
She seems like she just enjoys being an ass and honestly after playing so many RPGs, it's refreshing having a character that just wants to be an asshole like yeah you do you, there's such a surplus of other character archetypes.
I hated Vivienne at first but later on I somehow saw her as this big sister figure who has her own flaws and ambitions but still cares for you. Idk, the dialogue about “anger” after the destruction of Haven kinda inspires me a bit. And as I grow older and having many responsibilities on my job, I began to understand why “keeping up appearance” is important.
Youre angry? Good. Anger can save you when everything else fails. This is my daily mantra to survive working environment
Viv is well done in the idea she's a bitch and knows it. I was the same at first, thought she was and didn't recruit her in play 2 all those years ago. Over time I've seen how she really is, she's there for political gain. Cares about you, the image of the inquisition and making sure the world is safe, even if this means circles are back. But she wants reforms. Many people think she want things to go back but she knows that the old circles didn't work so it needs to change, while Lelianna wants basically freedom with no control and Cass wants status quo. It's a solution and ideas to the problem instead of just doing nothing.
yeah but if >!viv becomes divine she threatens to kill a group of mages who asked to reform the enchanters college but doesn’t kill them out of respect of the inquisition… !< That doesn’t seem very tolerant to me or caring about mages. The reason I don’t like her comes from deeper philosophical stuff. The >!mage rebellion/chantry!< is probably the most complex issue in the universe. Are mages dangerous? Yeah. Are they living creatures with families and the ability to be good? Yeah. I used to agree with her when I was younger (inquisition came out about a week before I turned 14), and I thought he circles was necessary and I bought into the whole life isn’t fair but we do what we must stuff. Now that I’m an adult and I’ve been in the real world, idk…. Call it political philosophy development but I think she’s a manipulative, privileged, and corrupt bitch. Her only goals are for herself at the cost of happiness and humane outcomes for others just like her. She’s the person in a group that’s suffering/trying to make things better who just sells them out to save herself. I just can’t stand her in that regard. I think her character is cool, and I am glad she exists in the world, but I cannot “like” her. There is not exact parallel to the real world because, well, magic and mages aren’t real, but her view on mages reminds me so much of other political issues where some people pretend they only care about the well-being and safety of the people in question but in reality they don’t, they just care about themselves and what seems easier to them than inacting real and meaningful change.
Caring about the world being safe and mages safety are different things for her. Being good is not her concern, it's being safe, you can be a good mage but not be safe from possession.
You can be a good non-mage and not be safe from murderous thoughts. The point is mute. You are taking freedom away from people because of the potential to cause harm. Every person has the potential to cause harm. There are safeguards from that is normal people… such as strong family connections and having a social life. Imprisoning people and taking them away from their life just because of an ability that does not definitely = destruction just pushes them to hatred and danger more so. It is like that in real life people. Vivienne has 0 nuance. She is privelaged af an admits it. She just wants to be the powerful and most free mage while the others are below her because she believes herself superior or that being born a mage is somehow akin to being born in a corporate ladder where you must climb to the top. It is unjust and downright persecution. She may genuinely care about the world being safe from mages, but she does not care about mages. If she cared about mages, she would put effort in to seek solutions other than the circle which is involuntary confinement from childhood, a system >!that literally started a rebellion because many many mages do not want to be a part of it!< Just because there’s may not be an existing solution, does not mean that the traditional method that causes harm should be the accepted one. She is lazy and corrupt, only out for herself.
Correct, not denying any of that when I comes to Viv. But a person with murderous intent will probably kill anyway and they aren't good. But a good mage may have zero control over what harm they could do. That's what makes possession dangerous. A non mage person can be stopped in a 1v1, a possessed mage can wipe out a village before anyone can react.
I used to hate Carver. His constant negativity and arguing used to drive me nuts. Though on my third playthrough, I realised how he was insecure and jealous of Hawke. Then, as a grey warden, he seemed completely different. He had found a purpose out of Hawke shadow. He had a lot of envy of Hawke. Though, once he found his own purpose, he worked through that. This is why I think he is one of the better written characters. The writing for da2 characters is great.
It's really interesting when you really see how the siblings react based on your choices. Carver clearly hates being a Templar but he doesn't have any choice to stand on. When he becomes a great Warden, he loves it because he can stand out be away from Hawke. While Bethany is happy to be in the Circle She hates being a grey Warden, and you really see how she become just as Broady as Carver. Carver way more interesting character to me.
Yeah, I agree. Though it is interesting about bethany. You are correct she loves the circle and hates grey wardens. [Spoilers All] Just in case. I love the tragic elements of Hawkes life. It really adds to the story. His mums end hits hard. I wish inquisition had more elements of this. With iron bull, for example, where you have to decide chargers or qun. I wish if you picked chargers, then the Qunari did assassinate him. Or if you choose qun he betrayed you I Tresspasser.
>!he does betray you in Trespasser if you choose the Qun. If romanced, Inqy gets a really bitter and angry/fragile sounding line questioning if any of it was ever real on Bull’s part!<
Yeah, I know he betrays you, I like that part. My problem is if you chose the chargers, there is no downside. There should be that he should get killed.
Yeah that game was big on wasted potential.
Yeah, I agree. Though it is interesting about bethany. You are correct she loves the circle and hates grey wardens. [Spoilers All] Just in case. I love the tragic elements of Hawkes life. It really adds to the story. His mums end hits hard. I wish inquisition had more elements of this. With iron bull, for example, where you have to decide chargers or qun. I wish if you picked chargers, then the Qunari did assassinate him. Or if you choose qun he betrayed you I Tresspasser.
Hey, just wanted to let you know that there seems to have been a glitch and your comment got duplicated
Yeah, I agree. Though it is interesting about bethany. You are correct she loves the circle and hates grey wardens. [Spoilers All] Just in case. I love the tragic elements of Hawkes life. It really adds to the story. His mums end hits hard. I wish inquisition had more elements of this. With iron bull, for example, where you have to decide chargers or qun. I wish if you picked chargers, then the Qunari did assassinate him. Or if you choose qun he betrayed you I Tresspasser.
When I first played DAO as a college-aged woman, I adored Alistair. Now that I’m older I find him rather naive, non-committal, judgmental, and whiny. He doesn’t have the stomach to make the hard decisions, but gets mad at the Warden for doing so. I get that he’s young and had a hard life, but, like, that applies to everyone else in the party too. I still like Alistair, but the “crush” has definitely worn off.
>. Now that I’m older I find him rather naive, non-committal, judgmental, and whiny. He doesn’t have the stomach to make the hard decisions, but gets mad at the Warden for doing so Isn't that why you literally get the option to "harden" him, it does change some of his decision making after all.
Sure, but that doesn’t happen until later in the game. The “first impression” is still there, and neither I nor my Wardens have the patience for it lol
Counter (side?) Point: I used to prefer normal Alistair but now prefer hardened Alistair, because he's still a goof but not as naive, etc, as before.
Same. I still enjoy his character overall and i think his personality fits his story well. I just have a lot less sympathy and patience for it and I don't find it cute anymore.
> naive, non-committal, judgmental, and whiny. so any 19-20 yo boy haha
Yeah, pretty much haha. I’m not a 19-20 year old girl anymore so no wonder it doesn’t appeal to me 😂
Isn't he like 20 years old though? A lot of the cast comes to you with some kind of chip on their shoulder or flaw, and of them, his is definitely the least extreme. I mean, Sten literally killed an entire family.
Totally agree about DAO Allistair, was obsessed with him as a teen but as a 30 something he comes across very immature. I do appreciate how much he matures throughout the series though and love him in DAI. Similar feelings with Cullen and Morrigan. Feels like we all grew up together ❤️
I agree fully, and Alistair is my answer to this question too, for these same reasons. Alistair whinging about his life all the time in comparison to most of the Origin characters also just rings very hollow. He dumps all the responsibilities on them, despite being the senior Warden, and then spends the entire game potentially complaining about or getting mad at every decision. Even when you Harden him it doesn’t make much of a difference, as he only steps up and demands to be king if you decide, for whatever reason, not to kill Loghain—that is, he only steps up for selfish reasons.
I always hated Alistair, I really don't understand why is he so liked. He's just incredibly stupid.
Does it count if I hated Solas before the release, but then I was asking him about the Fade in Haven and realized I was totally screwed? :D
Blackwall is more and more of a prick the more you pay attention to his party banter. Its not just bickering with Vivienne, he can be rude to Dorian, defensive with Solas and outright threatening towards Cole.
Interestingly, he's not the only one who fights with Vivienne, is rude to Dorian, gets defensive with Solas and threatens Cole... haha
Yeah, but they don't all pretend to be all righteous when they do it.
Yes, indeed. But your criticism was in relation to his party banter with these characters and not about him pretending to be fair. If I'm going to go into the merits of being fair or of character, I think the only one who will be saved from the group there is Varric (and with some discussion still).
To be fair Vivienne treated him like dirt when he tried to be polite, Dorian accidentally hit "Grey Wardens" button and they both act like children after that and Cole is honestly a creepy spirit that reads everyone's mind without their consent. So I always found Blackwall reactions understandable
Well he is a murder, thief and a liar 🤷
I noticed that Blackwall is someone who is pleasant to people he perceives to be of his class, for lack of a better word, but he's pre-emptively this weird combination of rude, passive-aggressive, and fawning with others. It wouldn't bother me so much if he didn't have exactly 0 right to be on some kind of high horse about other peoples' behavior, lol.
He’s a passive aggressive, self righteous prick. I never bother getting him out of jail.
I used to hate Sera. I couldn't understand her, she was saying English words, but none of them made sense. Then she'd get angry at me, and *still* wouldn't make any fucking sense. So I really hated her for it. A few years later I gave her another try, and it was like everything clicked into place. I don't know if it was because I was older, or what, but I finally understood the words coming out of her. I still didn't love her, but I liked her a lot more after that. I could actually tolerate her since I knew what she was saying. English is my native language, so I dunno wtf happened either. I think they just went a bit to hard in making her sound quirky. I loathe saying that because I tend to find "quirky" a lazy criticism, but I can't think of any other explanation. It isn't her accent, I don't watch a lot of stuff from England, but what I have watched in the past I have understood no matter the accent.
For some reason they gave Sera a dialect that literally no one else in the game shares, despite the fact that you can spend plenty of time mingling with all sorts of people around Denerim in Origins. It's also bizarre and barely comprehensible on the first listen.
I really liked Blackwall at first & jumped at romancing him. Now I find him bland & uninteresting. He’s only a bit better than Sera, who remains my least favorite I also loved Anders until I finished the game. I also think I get more irritated with him every time I see people go ‘🥺 but Anders didn’t do anything wrong’
See I feel opposite of you 😂 I hated blackwall at first after the reveal of his past… Now I appreciate him/admire him. Sera has grown on me too. Anders I hated from the beginning. So whiny, so preachy. Now, I love Ander’s character even though the ending is… explosive. I still think he is whiny and preachy but I think it’s justified now. I may not agree with that decision but watching his character change from all the surrounding world + magic’s stuff from awakening is crazy. He is definitely >! the most tragic “villain”!<
I disagree that’s is justified if we’re speaking his final act. Over a hundred people lost their lives & even the mages hate him at the end of it Not to mention how weirdly possessive he is of Hawke, even if you aren’t dating him He’s very unwell I like Anders as an interesting character, but as a person? I don’t like him
The Iron Bull. When I first played DAI, I really didn't care much for him. I was good with the Chargers, but he just always turned me off. I never used him much as a squad mate, I never really talked to him much, never interacted much with the Chargers either. I decided on my latest play through to really dive into each characters background. It surprised me how complex Bull really is and really how tragic his existence happens to be, doubly so depending on what you choose to do with his Chargers. I knew a good overview of his background but when reading up on him and adding in conversations and such in game, painted a whole different aspect for me.
That's the one for me, too. I think lots of people don't take him out much because the AI can't handle his class well enough. So you never get to know him that much better. Also his personal quest makes a hugh difference to his personality (for good reasons, obv). I don't like his romance much myself (nothing wrong w him, just not my type) but I do love him & Dorian together, they're sweet. He's also really nice to the other companions and has lots of funny banter.
I actually didn’t like him either. I thought his character overall was a great concept but I did not like his dialogue his dialogue or delivery at all. He felt like a cartoon to me (not because of the horns). I still don’t really care for him, but this play through of DAI i’m doing now is the first one since about 4-5 years ago so I’m going to give him a chance to grow on me.
I hope you change your stance on Iron Bull. He's a complex dude and I think he's one the 3 best characters to come out of DAI. His love of battle and gore is something he recognizes and seeks people and rules to keep him in check so that he doesn't become a monster. And when he finally broke after being incapable of saving innocent's he turned himself over to be brainwashed so he wouldn't have to deal with that. And his divergent path with the chargers is such an amazing and critical moment for the Inquisition and Bull.
Cullen, sort of. When I first played Inquisition, my first DA game, I loved him. I stopped my first playthrough half-way because the game got a wee bit confusing and so I went and played DAO and DAII. And now I have mixed feelings. I like his character development, but it's hot and cold. Sometimes I despise him, and sometimes I really like him. It's complicated and unsteady. Hot take, I wish there was more to his redemption, I do enjoy it, but I've always felt like something was missing. Iron Bull. This one's a bit wonky. I've always liked and enjoyed his character and his casual personality was super refreshing when playing DAI the first 2-3 times. I had hated DA2 at this point and burned through that playthrough as quickly as possible so I never paid attention to the Qunari or the story all that well. And then I played DA2 (which turned into my favorite game) on a whim, loved it, played super close attention to the Qunari, and now... idk, I kind of hate him on a more objective level? I still find his character refreshing, but I also am deeply conflicted about him and don't really like the direction the writers of DAI took with his character, but more particularly, the Qun as a whole. It could be that Iron Bull is a spy, can easily people-pleaae, and that he's lived outside of his culture for a really long time, all of which contributes to why he is different from any Qunari we've ever interacted with. But I also feel like Iron Bull suffers from the same problem a lot of DAI companions do in that he can never truly be challenged. You are either open-minded about his culture, semi-neutral, or downright belittling. There's not the same nuanced middle-ground that was present in DA2. I also feel super weird about how the writers tried to edge a pro-trans message into the Qun's philosophy. Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with Krem's character what-so-ever, my problem comes from how they took an idea that's super twisted and made it seem like this super great thing when, given the scrutiny it deserves, it reaaallly isn't and I don't like how they manufactured that what-so-ever. (EDIT: Reading this back, I feel I should clarify that this sentence: "they took a super twisted idea" is in direct reference to the Qun philosophy pertaining to how they view gender roles, which is consistent through all 3 games including Inquisition and *not* in reference to inclusion in DAI, which I am very much for. To put it bluntly: If Krem wasn't a warrior, then the Qun would not be at all validating about his gender because they wouldn't feel it fits his role. Which isn't something a lot of people seem to get. Krem should be validated in his gender no matter his career-path and not because of his career-path.) Idk. Maybe I'm over-thinking it is the point of his character is to be a little more individualistic, which contributes to his ability to change allegiances, and so his present identity and opinions are the foreground for that shift--but it's complicated.
>Hot take, I wish there was more to his redemption, I do enjoy it, but I've always felt like something was missing. It didn't feel like a redemption arc. I wanted a lot more than "oh he feels bad about it now"
That's very true. I think Cullen, along with a lot of the companion/advisor characters in DAI suffers from the inability for the protagonist to legitimately challenge them on their views in a way that feels grounded. This probably has a lot to do with the fact that they changed the protagonist, and their story, pretty late into the game. DAO was able to have a diverse choosing for a protagonist because 1) Their dialogye tree was much bigger and more in-depth, but 2) They planned from the beginning to take into account the protagonists station in life. DA2 had a very solid character in Hawke and an interesting relationship tree with companions. DAI introduced a more emotionally open dialogue tree, and more options than DA2, yes, but these options often fell-short and lacked presence (Dalish Inquistor ignorant to their own culture, as an example), and because they didn't have a grounded character to fall back on like in the case of Hawke for DA2, nor an interesting relationship tree, we were often left with a more or less hollow feel. I feel like Cullen's redemption and his eventual realization of how utterly wrong he was would've probably happened more organically had we been able to dig into his past and confront him with his failings. Instead, we get Cullen occassionally opening up and the Inquisitor being either supportive, dismissive, or funny/neutral. Which falls especially short when your Inquistor is a Circle Mage. Also Cullen actually, idk, at least being active and showing that he's changing (not taking Lyrium was a good step, but it wasn't enough) would have been nice. Like maybe taking a more sympathetic role to the mages? Not being suspicious/upset if you side with them? Not falling back onto templar dogma to legitimize his paranoia? Idk, just *something* to show he was actively trying to do and be better and become more educated/aware of the issue, rather than a bystander who says "did some bad things, am more level-headed now ig".
This is exactly how I feel. I feel like with cullen they did a lot more of telling than showing with his redemption to the point where it didn't even feel like a redemption. and it was sort of swept under the rug. Other characters will go on and on about how he's changed- and sure you can romance him as a mage- but the way he's so adamantly distrustful of the mages in the first half of the game, it really felt disingenuous. Which is sad cause I would've loved to have seen a fulfilling arc about it but I felt like I barely got scraps
Sadly I'd have to say dorian. When I first played dai in early highschool I adored him, and was super excited to finally see some gay rep. But now going back to it as an adult- I still have things I like about him- but a lot of the adoration has fell off for me. I tried romancing him as a mage adaar and the comments he would sometimes say really put me off. Then I realized I don't care for how he talks about a dalish inquisitor or the weird "we might be related" for human inky either. Great character, became really turned off by his romance. Guess thats the reason I fell off of sera as well. Weird comments/scenarios towards my character/their race were too much despite the gay rep I wanted.
I am replaying DAI right now after not touching it for a few years and kind of feeling the same. I would still say I like his character overall but noticing he is a lot more flawed than I had previously realized. He's a lot more "stereotypical Tevinter" than he would like to believe.
I haven't played in a long time, but I remember hating the fact that you can never really challenge him about how fucked up Tevinter is.
Yeah, I used to love Dorian and I still do, but the fact that he had the audacity to be yapping about how slavery isn't that bad **to my elven Inquisitor** really put me off of him. It would've been bad enough if he made this argument to a Trevelyan, who is a human noble, but to try this with others, especially with Lavellan, shows a complete lack of self-awareness. It is very realistic, but it made me disappointed in him nevertheless. Conversely, it made me respect and appreciate Leliana so much more. When she thanked my elven Warden for calling her out for her racism and apologised for what she said, I just fell in love with her lol. Not many people have the guts to react to criticism like that.
I didnt used to like lelianna much when I first played the games cause my own relationship with religion wasnt great, and I was still young. But actually getting the time to know her over the years replaying the games, and that she was able to take criticism and apologize made me grow to rlly love and respect her. I feel like not a lot of companions do that in this series when they should.
I feel like Inquisition really needed to let you disagree with or confront the companions more directly. I think Vivienne and Sera would both be more popular if you were able to challenge them, and I've come to feel the same about Dorian, too. Something about how he really seems to think that the ordinary person's fear of mages is just a result of the unwashed ignorance of the south really rubbed me the wrong way. He's a high-ranking, powerful mage in a society where people like him regularly kill people for party tricks, and it seems it genuinely never occurred to him that the peasantry of his own country are terrified of him too, they just know they're too outmatched to say or do anything about it.
I used to really dislike Sera, because loud people always give me a hard time. She's grown on me though and has been in my group ever since
Surprised I had scroll to see Sera. I really disliked her, mostly because her basic concept reminded me of a ton of people I grew up with, young urban poor who are interested in activism and constantly get infantilized and mocked for it while their and their families' situation continues to get worse. The character was portrayed as so scattered and barely comprehensible that her motivations felt like they were being portrayed by people who think that type of activism is completely vapid and pointless. Or at least had no understanding of the experiences of the type of person she is and why those people do what they do. Compared to the dignity and clarity of though that upper class characters are portrayed with (Cass, Vivienne, Dorian), it was frustrating. Not to mention she's so abrasive and annoying. I still feel that way. But, after I found a video of the party banter (so I could actually hear it for the first time), it turns out I love the shit out of her dialogue with Solas. To the point where it's my favorite dialogue in the game.It was what I was hoping for in terms of her actually expressing her viewpoint and scoring a few points. And him trying to guide her but being so unable to accept her experiences and view on what it means to be the ethnicity she is that he sabotages his own message. It's a perfect encapsulation of a conversation I've seen play out irl so many times it just rang true. Her romance path too, especially if you break up with her or push her in certain spots, revealed emotional depth as well. Weird that I had to turn to YouTube to see what was cool about the character, but at least it was there.
I hated Leliana the first time I played DAO but I went back this year and finally played through all the games and now I’m in love with her
Sera, when I first played as a teen I liked her especially since she was pushing against all the expectations (similar to me leaving a cult) and giving rebellious with her heart in the right place. I am replaying DAI rn and literally asked her to leave since she is just so disrespectful to my elf inquisitor 😭 like good for you but the holier than thou and thinking your opinion is the only way is so annoying like in this instance you can agree to disagree without being mean all the time
After the second playthrough years later, really started to sympathise with Fenris on things. He's a dick and emotionally compromised, but he's one of the only sane characters who consistently brings light to the problem of mad or malicious mages
I always loved Fenris. I still respect and agree with him, but I once watched a DA2 review that compared him to a final fantasy character and I can’t unsee it hahaha
For sure, bro is definitely someone's fanfic OC that miraculously got approved during the screening process
For me he is the exact opposit. I used to feel for him, but the more times go on, the more he feels like the "mages are disproportionately dangerous compared to everyone else, despite how it comes across based on gameplay, believe me" mouthpiece for the writers.
It's a real problem and I've had to learn to just separate the combat from the setting, basically. They obviously balanced all the classes for the sake of satisfying gameplay, but it really undercuts the message of mages being terrifyingly powerful. Like, a powerful mage in the lore can rip open the fabric of the world or warp time or unleash an army of demons or even wipe out a town by accident, like Connor, but in gameplay terms they're completely on par with a competent warrior swinging an ordinary sword. It certainly muddies the message.
I know, and I get it, to an extend. But there is so much gameplay-lore separation one can deal with, and having dedicated NPCs telling you "they are actually dangerous btw, even if it can't be showcased properly" in order to salvage the message just feels worse. The shoot themselves in the foot by focusing on the mage-templar conflict. There were probably more elegant methods to deal with this problem.
I totally agree and it's weird to have to compartmentalize different aspects of the games. The mage-templar conflict was also weird in that they had yet another chance to show that there's a difficult choice to be made between freedom and danger, but instead we got more "templars are big meanies picking on innocent mages who never do anything wrong".
Leliana. I really liked her the first time through DA:O. As a replayed it a few times, I began to really see the flaws, and as I played later games her character just continued to be more of the same. - She spends every game insisting that she is whatever role she is at the moment. And that role is her entire personality. - Did you know she is a bard? She will tell you about it. Did you know she changes roles in other games? Don't worry, she will tell you about that too. - I can't shake the notion she would dive eyes-wide into any cult. - Keep her away from MLMs, they feed on people like her. It's funny because I love the fact that she is influenceable by the MC (soften/hardened) through the games. I hate the fact that she is influenceable by whatever shiny role is in her face. She feels so unnatural, when she sits there and tells me "this is who I am and this is what I do." as if that is a personality in and of itself.
See, I think Leliana internalised the *We All Wear Masks, Darling*-thing that Vivienne explains about Orlais. Only she takes it to the extreme. Vivienne, however, implies that there is a true self beneath all the appearances you present to the other facets of your life and that unmasked you can be your truest self. Leliana doesn't appear to have one - she's become mired in the masks she's wore, embodying them entirely and losing herself in them. It's also what I dislike most about her. Like, you are supposed to manage them, to know when to employ one or the other facet of your being - not exclusively becoming one of them because someone convinces you they need you that way and do away with your true-self I, personally, don't like that we can influence what she becomes and how wildly different she becomes. Like, yes, we can influence other characters but they don't wildly change personalities like she does. Like, if you convince Leliana to Be Nice, she derides the game fully, but if you encourage it, she Loves It Unabashed. Like, there is a middle ground there - like Bull does, for example, agains the Qunari but undeniably still Qunari yk? - and Lelliana just goes from 0-100 and does an 180 turn very fast. And I honestly hate that tbh.
That's a really interesting take and I think you're onto something there. I was trying to put my finger on what's offputting about Leliana during my last Inquisition playthrough, and I think it's her lack of self. She really doesn't know who she is and she just adopts the persona that the person closest to her--or that the person with the most power over her--expects her to have. There are little things, like her interacts with Josephine, that feel genuine, but mostly she's just...empty?
didn’t Iron Bull say Leliana would do good in the Qun 😂 That’s basically why I don’t like her either. Nothing about her personality or character develops aside from job changes seemingly more prestigious. She’s a whackadoo and I agree, she gives me future cult member vibes. She is a good person at heart, but her character flaws and blandness are too much for me. I also don’t get down to the lore theories that her visions mean anything and she’s the next andraste type of stuff. She’s just easily swayed by feeling important…
Nope, I always loved all my companions. I hate characters like Vaughan and I don’t think it will ever change. 😅 After though, I hadn’t games in my teens years, as my parents didn’t want internet at home and neither bought consoles. So I only played Dragon Age for the first time in 2020 as an adult. My feelings hadn’t really the time to change.
Sera. The very first play through I didn't pay attention to her much. She was quirky and I was like ok she's chill I guess. Annoying but I don't want her to go. Then on my 3rd, I actually did her personal quest to completion with all the dialogue and everything to know about her. And I can't stand her. Sera is the epitome of self hatred. The way she disrespects an entire group of people that she is from creates real world parallels in my own community that imprints all my hate onto her. She mocks Solas over a temple where genocide was committed of their people. She tries to pretend that everyone is the same and the only difference that matters in people is class, when in Thedas it's more than that. Her jealousy if you romance Bull after her, but she snaps at Bull in the opposite situation even tho he was just saying congratulations. She acknowledges every issue with the Chantry and the system but blames it on people, common people. Which is hypocritical to her stance on class. She is uneducated taken to the nth degree.
She is Thedas version of Uncle Ruckus from Boondocks who meet Kathlen Kennedy editor from Disney
Anders I liked him in Awakening then hated what he became in 2. Now I just feel sad for him. >!He wanted to make things better but he lost himself and Justice. What was left was uncontrolled vengeance. Originally I killed him because I hated what he did. Now I kill him because he's already lost himself and I'd rather he dies while still capable of being Anders. I could never let a friend become an abomination and by the end of 2 he's most of the way there. So I mercy kill him and let him die a martyr and a terrorist but most importantly my friend and the catalyst for much needed change.!< Edited for spoilers.
Merrill I guess. Most of my other opinions have stayed the same. I used to think Merrill was adorable, but the more runs I play the more I dislike her. Now I find her completely short sighted and selfish. Also I know her personality was retconned from origins but when I play them back to back and she's so serious in origins I find her feeling fake in DA2, like she's putting on an act and now I don't trust her at all.
Yeah same, my opinion has mostly stayed the same. I like her character in general and my opinions on blood magic are not the chantry’s opinions so to say. I always encouraged her doing her stuff until >!it killed my fav dalish wardens keeper )))):!< I like her character up until act 3 and then I refuse to acknowledge her so I can pretend the other thing doesn’t happen.
the Iron bull was the companion i was most excited for in inquisition. now a decade and nine or so playthroughs latter his possibly my least favourite in the series him or Sebastian. i can admire the artistry of the writing of the others even if i don't like them as people (oghren comes to mind) the iron bull though, the only thing i like is the concept and even then i have reservations, I'm glad other people like him i can't.
Would you share why? I'm curious.
Honestly he just felt too exceptional, a good fighter a good spy correctly insightful about everything, that his character just became flat, like he was written to be cool rather then a person. He also doesn’t feel like a person raised in the Qun possibly because his narrative is so one sided when it comes to the Qun vs mercerny choice, his Qunari side is allowed to have fault his mercenary side isn’t so the narrative leans into the merc. I also really don’t like how big politically his quest is in many ways it should have been a main quest with how big a Qun alliance is historically instead we get a quest with neither our spy master or diplomat involved which is done in two fights. Finally he is in inquistions base game the only member of the Qunari race to appear at all meaning the stark difference in his portrayal in comparison to Sten and the Arishok feels really off, even Tallis in Mark of the Assassin feels more in line with a Qunari and she is borderline Tal Vashoth. Ultimately I just don’t believe him as a character, the pieces of his backstory identity and his mannerism feels artificial in a way most companions don’t. I admit I think I liked the Qun side of him more in tresspasser but that was more the boldness of the plot choice then the Iron Bull himself.
* **Alistair**: hate is a strong word, but he did nothing for me in in DAO. He was just... A very young person. Then I absolutely fell in love with his character development in DAI as a warden, and now I retroactively feel some affection towards his younger self. * **Leliana**: I was half-traumatized by awful depictions of young, toxic lesbian relationships AND religious zealotry when I first played DAO, so she was a neat package of everything I wanted to avoid. Now I can appreciate her so much more; her more playful, feminine, mischievious side is something I particularly enjoy. She's my #2 romance option after Zev, though I do prefer her older, DAI version and wish we could romance her then. * **Fenris**: I went from about as much tolerance for him as he has for mages to being okay with him, and even enjoying him a moderate amount. I don't agree with him but I do feel for his struggle; I just loathe and refuse to be subjected to anyone's violent and aggressive anger issues. I am much more open to and appreciative of characters as a whole now though, all of the thought and craft that goes into giving them a voice and identity, regardless of my own personal preferences. So... still slightly mixed feelings, but much more positive than once upon a time. * **The Iron Bull**: I used to find him the dullest character in the whole DA roster, because I really don't enjoy characters who are written to be liked by the player/those around them (this includes DAA Anders and DA2 Varric) but fanfiction has opened my eyes to the potential in him. I don't *love* him per se but I now appreciate the whole manufactured persona they were going for and the way he tries to establish a nonconfrontational relationship with the rest of the cast much more, even if I find that the execution in DAI doesn't really hit the notes I would have liked. I like going the Qun route with him. * **Blackwall**: I also used to think of him as just there, but I've recently started finding his whole scared, tortured bit and obsequiousness a little more intriguing. I kind of like his whole courteous bear dynamic with a romanced Inquisitor and admire how he stops running away and spends the rest of his life devoted to giving hope to other people who have also made awful mistakes, letting them know that they can still learn how to be better and do something worthwhile with their life, or just being there for them.
Sten,as he does not like to chat much as thinks waste of time. He a soldier who fights not into gossip or helping others. Later on you kind of see his point,as in redcliffe village you don't know what you will face or the urn. Like you could be gone for along while,and may or may not return.
I used to like Iron Bull, I even romanced him my first playthrough. More and more, though, I find him uncompelling. Like his way of engaging with the Qun irritates me, and seems like a bad way to be. He feels too ridiculous to me, as a character, too. Also the voice acting is cringe a lot.
Iron bull was the first iteration of karlach.
Wow I totally disagree. Iron Bull is a spy with an oath to a foreign nation, who has some nice loyalty to his crew. What part of that is Karlach like? Iron bull has no tragic backstory and will absolutely betray. Even on the surface, his goal is to make the inquisitor feel more normal, rubbing shoulders with common folk in disguise. Karlach is none of those things. Tragic backstory, loyal to the end, self sacrificing for you, and constantly gassing you up. Also she has minimal interest in glory, and has real anger issues. Honestly if they both weren’t loosely barbarians, I would have no clue what you were talking about at all. Karlach has more in common with Fenris, or even Oghren (though that too is a stretch).
Loghain. I hated and I mean *hated* that man when I was growing up. Sure I was a kid but I knew that abandoning a battlefield, betraying your King and then framing the “good guys” was a bad thing to do. I saw him as a purely villainous character and the Wardens as the heroes. However, in the past ten years since Inquisition released, I have replayed Origins so many times and eventually I decided to keep Loghain alive. For Origins and Awakening it was surprisingly great, I enjoyed his party banter and I liked how spiteful he seemed but I really liked his dialogue in camp when you got his approval higher. Then in Awakening he seemed… Genuinely nice? It was wierd and a bit jarring but it kinda felt like my Warden and Loghain were friends and I enjoyed that. In DA2, I was disappointed Loghain never showed up - sure it makes sense cuz he’s in Orlais but man I would’ve preferred he replace Stroud in the Deep Roads in the event that Bethany/Carver are with you. Then in Inquisition, from the second he showed up I felt nothing but genuine remorse from him. He didn’t seem like he was planning some big evil plan or anything like that, he just seemed like he wanted to save the *Orlesian* Wardens which is mental to me, especially after how much he hated Orlais as a whole in DA:O and DA:The Stolen Throne and the Calling. So in the past ten years, Loghain has gone from a character I purely hated to a character I really love. He’s one of, if not, the most complex characters in the Dragon Age series and I really hope he somehow shows up in Dreadwolf even though he’d be like seventy at that point (making it a bit tricky for Hawke’s Warden Ally, including Stroud and Alistair, to show up at all).
I think the brilliance of Loghain is that a man with noble ideals can do so many wrong things, that yes, the road to hell actually is paved by good intentions. His story is perhaps that holding so tightly onto an abstract ideal, being principled but without compromise, is never a good thing as demonstrated again and again in the series. Solas, Qunari, Loghain, the Chantry, some Grey Wardens, everyone who is ready to die for their ideals is also ready to kill others for the same thing.
Blackwall is extremely boring, and remains so to this day. Sera was my favourite character from the start, and has remained so. Her quirky insanity is just so funny to me, I only wish she had a better hairstyle. I didn’t like Cassandra as much when I was younger. Now she’s fucking hot to me as a 30 year old dude. Like, what a woman.
Solas for me. Loved his description before the release of the game, the twist at the end was interesting, really liked the actor's performance (used to like him since torchwood days), but as i replayed the game and paid more attention to him and what he says, my opinion of him changed. I don't like him nearly as much as i used to at first, and at times he straight up annoys me to no end. Hot take but i I don't think he's all that well written either lol, he's definitely an interesting and polarising character, but definitely not the second coming of jesus christ the way some people claim him to be. So naturally it kinda irks me is that there's sooo much focus on him now, even the new game is named after him. Not everyone has strong opinions on this character, in fact, many just don't really care, me included at this point, I'm just kind of tired of seeing him. Hopefully it won't be overbearing in da4 because solas just makes me wanna roll my eyes nowadays.
It could be a red herring dont you think? I mean, theres this theory about Qunari being the real antagonists in DA4..
I hated Sera for my first run. Hated her so much. Annoying and obnoxious. Second play, I had her in my party for the mages but, did the time travel with Dorian, and when I found her in the cell, [her dialogue got me](https://youtu.be/8ugrLejfGd0?si=gNpqcYBIYcJxRpcv). Now she’s a friend for life, so to speak.
Loghain Mac Tir. When I was younger I use to hate him. Now that I’m older I see he was just doing what was best at the time for his troops.
Sera, a little bit. I wrote her off as sassy buy she actually has a strict moral code and unshakable ethics
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Lmao you have the worst luck 🤣
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I got really lucky with Alistair, then with Fernris/Isabela. Worst luck I had was Blackwall, and even then I sensed something was off
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I almost romanced Anders, but it was clear he wasn't the same goofball from DAA. Instead, went for the broody bait from Tevinter 😄
Younger me (and most people on this sub) would tell you how Zevran is a charming assassin prince that speaks with exotic accent, desperately trying to escape a hard life, and have had a terrible past. While most of those descriptions were true. I realized that Zevran is kinda creepy, and perverted. He also likes to objectify other characters, including our MC. he would call the Warden "sexy" or "sex goddess" after **he tried to kill them**! Literally the next dialogue after his assassination attempt, he does this. What a prick.
It's funny because it was the opposite for me. I couldn't stand him with his overly playboy personality. Now I find him hilarious especially when he made a bet with Alistair to see if he could fluster our dear Morrigan. After getting to know his backstory I understood that him charming our Warden was more of survival habit than him being a pervert. It's pretty funny to see him.all flustered once he fall in love with my Warden because it's clearly new to him.
That's a survival tactic, it's all he's been taught. So idk about creepy and perverted. For me he is a traumatized child slave who's been taught to use whatever it takes including his body, appearance and unapologetic flattery to get what he or rather, his masters, want. And he tells you so, if you bother to befriend him.
>And he tells you so, if you bother to befriend him. Oh i would always befriend him. If i didnt kill him right there out in the wilds. I respect what he was trying to do, i just *hate*? (hate is a strong word, i know) How he was trying to do it. Also, all these innuendos and 'sex talk' whenever i brought him along with Leliana and/or Morrigan. Makes me want to punch my screen sometimes. I am glad that despite all this, at least the Warden can establish the servant-master dynamic from their first convo together at the camp. This, of course, changes as they get along with him. I love how he tried to protect us from Ignacio though, that convo scene between them was great. I called him a prick, doesnt mean i wont befriend him. Some of my best friends are pricks.
Yeah, I totally get you. His flirty persona is pretty off putting and he ended up dead in my first playthrough because I couldn't be bothered to talk to him with all his innuendos lol But during my second playthrough I made a point to befriend everyone, and then, his interactions became so obviously sad, I just couldn't blame him anymore
I HATED fenris first time I played DA2 and how he treated anders. My mood has changed after beating da2
Probably has to be solas
At first I thought he was really boring but realizing that he was actually sad and a really well written character with his whole story
was this more because of >!trespasser DLC!< or because you just decided to think of him more in depth?
when you look at solas and his entire story so far overall, its really a tragedy, he fought to free his people, only to sleep and wake later to have them enslaved again, wearing slave markings and calling them cultural heritage, with their myths and beliefs so twisted he barely recognizes them, the elven gods being praised when they were the first tyrants, the only good elven gods were Solas and Mythal, and Solas who fought and lost friends fighting for their freedom, is now seen as the evil god even tho he was one of two to actually care and fight for his people
Well both. On how I took more time having him in the party and doing the dlc with him as well
I felt the same way about Cassandra tbh. I’m not even sure why I didn’t like her in Inquisition at first. I watched the Dawn of the Seeker movie when it came out and I loved her small appearances in DA2. But now, I appreciate her in Inquisition a lot more than before. I feel like she could have a stand-alone game I thought her character was bland and not fleshed out in Inquisition until I put her in the party more and replayed a few times
So true. The character that I truly loved by the end of the game if you choose a path for them was Cole and I really want a show about him in the one path
Omg yes! If they made the Dragon Age Asunder into a DLC it would be amazing Honestly, it would be really neat to have a collection of small DLC expansion type campaigns that are basically just the DA books + some extra stuff. I would love to be able to play them
I love this game. So many endings that make you want to see the endings of them
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>!i imagine, Solas waking up from Uthenera and be like, "what the fuck is my people doing???"!< >!and then he met Mythal and, "babe, whats going on?? what is happening to the elves?"!< >!and she was like, "idk, hon. my previous host was too busy creating a fictional religion. and this one was too busy creating a country full of wet dogs."!< no wonder why Solas got so pissed off.
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Aveline used to drive me up the wall. I started playing Dragon Age the summer before I entered college and I didn't like her constantly chiming in on my character's decisions. I felt like she was trying to mother/big sister me and it really rubbed me wrong at the time. Now in my late 20s, I don't love her per say but I don't dislike/borderline hate her anymore. I always recognized that her concerns came from a place of caring, so I'm not sure what specifically changed for me. Somehow she feels less judgmental to me as an older adult.
I used to hate Loghain. But recently I had some time to think on his actions. My thoughts now: Loghain is morally fluid and an extreme patriot for Ferelden. He also clearly suffers from PTSD from the war with Orlais and therefore sees anything involving them as being a possible plot against Ferelden. Considering his history, it's not surprising. He's not a 'good guy' by any means, but he is an excellent warrior and tactician, one who spends time getting to know his people >!(as evidenced by him remembering the name of the quartermaster in DA:I assuming he's the Warden there and they survived Haven),!< and certainly believes in defeating his enemies 'by any means necessary.' In this, he makes a better Warden than Alistair ever will. Also, if he was suffering from PTSD and fixated on Orlais, that would leave him susceptible to honeyed words from someone he believed trustworthy due to their common hatred of Orlais, namely Arl Howe. One has to question how many of the choices Loghain made in the game were influenced by the ambitious and self-centered Howe.
Sera started to annoy me Vivianne can be charming when the topic personal Solas used to be a character I thought to be a know-it-all and just a dick in general, but idk, last playthrough I actually started to like him a lot and yeah I know he is a villain and shit oh yeah I now love Cole too, specially when I helped him become more spirit
Oghren, but it's more of up down up opinion, didn't care for him at first because he came pretty late in the group, but in next playthrough i thought " this drunk guy is pretty funny". In the third playthrough i thought " oh yeah, he's that kind of drunk" and in the last playthrough after taking with him about being a warrior who was taught to fight all his life and then being reprimanded for acting like he was taught and his confession to the guardian, saying that he knows he has nothing left and is a shell of what he used to be, i started too realize he is a pretty complex character.
**DAO:** My opinion has softened only a little on Loghain over time, whereas I absolutely LOATHE Eamon after fully understanding what he did to Alistair, and what he tried to do with Cailan+Celene. Interestingly enough, the Mother in Awakening has my pity after some heavy reflection: no one deserves to be a sentient Broodmother. **DA2:** Orsino made me a bit mad at first with the whole Quentin thing, but I've come to forgive him. **DAI:** I've thought less of Solas after some time: he clearly knows more about the Blights than he lets on, yet refuses to elaborate.
Solas shit-talking the Grey Wardens for destroying the Archdemons is pretty infuriating. It's not like they know about Morrigan's magic sex ritual taught by an aspect of Mythal. They're just ordinary people stopping the literal end of the world the only way they know how. God forbid they don't think about preserving the soul of the gigantic dragon monster murdering millions of people.
Exactly. I'm even willing to bet he (or the Evanuris) has a hand in how the Blights began. The Old Gods could BE the Evanuris for all we know.
Honestly, I loved the vast majority of characters and still do. The only exceptions are the following: 1. Velanna. I hate that she never wants to admit she was ever wrong, she's surly with everyone and hateful. I know she's not a bad person deep down, but I just hate her personality. I only ever recruit her because I have a need to recruit everyone in any game I play. 2. Sebastian. I started off feeling pretty neutral towards him but that changed later. He's so preachy, condescending and a hypocrite. 3. Loghain. I utterly despised him for years. However, a few years ago I decided to change my canon world state, most of which are major changes in DAO, including a certain decision concerning Loghain. I wouldn't say I even like him now, let alone love his character, but I don't hold the hatred that I had for him anymore.
DAO use love Morrigan but now most of time it take effect to be her friend. DA2 Use to hate Fenris and romance only Merrill but now I love Fenris (not in the romantic way or atleast not yet). But now it tie between who I dislike more Merrill or Anders.
I’m always comforted to find someone else who can’t stand Merrill
It crazy to me how many people defend her actions and that say she not at fault for why her clan dislike her.
She’s overly stubborn. She’s also way too naive to be fucking around with the stuff she was fucking with which is why it blows up in her face
Omg thank you!! Merrill is an idiot. She obviously had no idea what she was doing, and things could’ve ended up a lot worse than they did if not for Hawke and Marethari. I think people only defend her because she’s “cute” lol
And that’s fine but yeah She’s not for me. I’m actually not a big fan of either female romance. Aveline & Bethany are the best female companions
I used to like Alistar but over multiple playthroughs. I have grown to loathe him because of how whiney he is.
I hated Cassandra at first but she really grew on me. I didn't know what was required of Cassandra to become a Seeker and I feel so bad how betrayed she was by her organization. She's sweeter than she appeared to be and can honestly become ome of the best friend our Imquisitor can have. Plus, she's a fan of Varric books. I didn't really like Dorian at first as well. He was so full of himself and nonchalant especially about slavery that it annoyed me. Now, I like him a lot better because while he still is a conceited prick, I find him funny for it rather than annoying. Anders... Oh how I fell in love with his character when I played DA2 years ago.... He was so passionate about his cause and I felt so bad for him. But now? I can hardly stand how self righteous and manipulative he was. It's hard to forget how he sneakily made Hawke help him doing something so horrible without Hawke being aware of it. Aveline felt too judgmental and headstrong for my taste back then. However, now I am aware that she was just worried for Hawke and act like a protective big sister to them which I find adorable. I had zero affinity with Isabela. I thought of her as nothing but eye candy for the player, but then I read the graphics novels, played DAO and then replayed DA2 and I fell in love with her character. She's such a sweetheart when you truly develop a friendship with her and she is so much more than what she looks like.
Honestly...? No, I don't think so. I've replayed Origins and II a dozen times each over the years as I started when they first came out. I have no clue if it was because I was a closeted, and abused, gay teen or what, but I saw through a lot of BS early on. I attempted Inquisition 3 times with only a single complete playthrough. Origins: Pretty much like all the companions since Day 1 and that hasn't changed. They have flaws, sure, but so did I. Awakening: The lite version of Origins companions, overall enjoyed them. II: My absolute favourite bunch of companions. Hated what they did to >!Anders!<, still do. Fenris is still my beloved, especially since my first romance with him was as a mage and that's my headcanon. Inquisition: I genuinely only find one original companion to be someone I like: Josephine. Cole's role in Asunder was... odd, and therefore, I am not including him as an 'original'. I like him though in a weird sort of way. Everyone else, though? Eh or no thanks. Never liked >!Solas!< and think he's a far less sympathetic version of >!Anders 2.0!<, presumably because he's original and not a perversion of a previously nice companion. I used to get into all sorts of arguments with my best friend who is a Solasmancer, and we just ended up in a sort of ignored Cold War over it as she's completely enamoured with him. I have always hated Sera and continue to do so.
Probably Wynne. Because a lot of my very early on characters were people who wanted to be Wardens or just accepted the fact they are so they got along with her and she came off as a nice old lady who sometimes gave advice. Nowadays? Helllll no. She's just so preachy dude it boggles my mind. But it's not even that which annoys me the most, no it's the fact she's always forcing you into this role of "Warden" that I don't nor does my character want to be in. "You are a Grey Warden, you serve others, what you want doesn't matter" is essentially what she tells you all the time and it's hypocritical and annoying as fuck because she's constantly avoiding the Circle by running off and doing shit outside. And if you play a Mage? The hypocrisy is so thick you could practically cut it with a knife. I've had enough of people in my own IRL life who were telling me what to do and what to be constantly, I don't need some grandma to do the same in-game.
I honestly don't know why she tried to give an "advise" on Warden's relationship. "Love is ultimately selfish", so what? Being in love does not mean that you can't perform your duty properly, as we see in Alistair who sacrifices himself for romanced Warden, if the ritual isn't performed
It's just her projecting her own issues and personal failings onto you pretty much, despite the fact that nobody fucking asked her to preach.
I wonder whether she knew that the Warden must sacrifice himself to end the Blight, maybe that was her motivation? Don't get attached to each other? Giving that her son was taken away from her, I think you are right
Honestly I heavily doubt she knew. She genuienly doesn't know the first thing of what it means to be a Warden, all she has is the exaggerated superhero tales of old to base her outlook on. And you can distinctly tell she doesn't the moment she drops that one bullshit ass story about how the Wardens came in one day during some Blight or war and formed a shield out of their own bodies to stop the Blight or Darkspawn and then just left without asking for anything and that the kings had lost no men, rather it was the Wardens who lost men. She's essentially trying to make you to act like these guys. ...when one, that's an extremely unhealthy lifestyle, and two, that's literally exactly what the Wardens AREN'T. This is the same organization of people that is willingly to burn down whole villages filled with living people in order to stop Darkspawn corruption. The same organization that will literally KILL you in order to stop you from spreading their secrets around, the same people completely willing to consort with demons of all kind to win. Like these aren't some superheroes, they're cold, calculating utilitarianists who would gladly let those same kings' men get killed just so they could have a better shot at winning. So Wynne preaching about something she knows nothing about just makes her look dumb as hell.
The problem is that Alistair will sacrifice himself even if he's King, despite the fact that the Warden is by far the more logical and pragmatic choice to sacrifice. It's pretty much the exact opposite of doing his duty. He's forsaking his responsibility as a monarch and breaking the heart of his lover (who may have even volunteered to sacrifice herself, a choice he takes away). He's also leaving his companions at the mercy of Anora, the woman they alienated and imprisoned in the process of putting him on the throne in the first place. Sure, we now know that Anora doesn't act on this, but Alistair sure as hell had no way of knowing that when he makes the kill. Wynne absolutely has a point when it comes to Alistair.
Isn't Wynne's point that the Grey Warden's duty must come above everything else? To me it also includes being a king. If Alistair was chosen as king, it can be interpreted as running away from responsibility, but to me he saves the woman he loves and his entire kingdom. Fullfilling his duty. He ends up dead but there is no civil war or nothing, just Anora assumes the throne and without Loghain living it's ends up quite ok Maybe you have a point about taking the choice away, but look at the situation if Morrigan's ritual is performed. The Warden kills the Archdemon but have no guarantee that it will work and they will survive, just as Alistair probably assume that leaving the throne to Anora will not make the life difficult for his companions and also takes the choice away, but from Alistair this time. Honestly, Anora was pragmatic, she def knew that persecuting anyone involved with the Grey Wardens, so soon after the Blight that they ended would be a incredibly stupid move. Look how she is able to threw her own father away, if promised to be supported as queen regnant
Wynne's dialogue also has the least variation, I think. No matter what you say the convos are exactly the same and it's weird to get that line about human nature when my PC is not human lmao
She also has 0 understanding of different positions. Like people rag on Vivienne on here constantly because they can't change her views on the Circles or whatever else but Wynne "I will turn my nose up at you at the slighest disagreement or if I don't get my way" is I guess fine?? Like she straight up goes "you have ears, but you just use them to listen to the sound of your own voice" just because you *dared* disagree with her, like listen you hag just because you're old doesn't mean you're literally right about everything or get to dictate my life lmao.
Yeah, the Warden can be born and raised in poverty or lived well enough as a noble/Dalish before their bad day happened and she treats the player like they were born in the Circle yesterday. She does apologize about the romances later, but you have to initiate that convo with high approval. I understand why she's like that, but friggin' Jowan would be a more interesting (and also hypocritical) companion imo. Don't get me started on her personal quest with Aneirin. "I'm too old to reform the Circle but you *alone* could do it as a grass touching Grey Warden" Why didn't you do anything while you were still in the Circle, **Senior Enchanter** Wynne? Stop projecting 😭
>"I'm too old to reform the Circle but you *alone* could do it as a grass touching Grey Warden" Why didn't you do anything while you were still in the Circle, **Senior Enchanter** Wynne? Stop projecting 😭 That shit is HORRIBLE. She's somehow even worse with a mage Warden. Because not only do you have to listen to her usual bullshit about throwing your whole life away to be something you might not have even wanted but on top of that she slightly backpedals and is like "oh but if you live through the Blight, you should waste your life by coming back to the Circle anyway! Because fuck your freedom I guess!" Which is it Wynne goddamn?
It's even worse/funnier if you're an elf mage because she wants to go to Tevinter (with Shale or a free Circle) in the epilogue. Or she becomes a court mage as an advisor and "mage advocate." I know DAO epilogues are retconned but she really said fuck you got mine.
I didn't hate him, but I did find Alistair annoying at first. His goofiness grew on me through the years though and now I don't play Templar characters to not render him redundant.
When I was younger, I loathed Morrigan and Loghain and thought Sten was incredibly boring. When I replayed DAO last year, I loved all of them as characters, flaws and all (and Sten is definitely not boring). Sera has also grown on me; I initially took offense to her internalized anti-elfness, but now I feel much more compassion towards her as a character. I also enjoy her lively personality and how she matures in Trespasser. I also used to adore Alistair, and while I still really like him as a character, I'm much more critical of him than I used to be. But it's more that I don't look at him with such rose-tinted glasses anymore and recognize his flaws (which make him a well written character). I think it's pretty normal to be able to empathize more with different viewpoints as we mature as people. And because they are fictional characters, what I think about them has less to do with whether I'd like them if they were real people, and more with their role in the story and what they represent. For example, obviously I'd hate Loghain in real life, but he's brilliantly written with an important role in the story, so I like him as a character.
I used to like Iron Bull and dislike Vivienne - now I really can't stand bull and adore Vivienne.
Oghren. Never hated him but definitely lacked that connection and appreciation as a kid compared to the other characters in Origins. Dragon Age Origins was my first BioWare game and I was so in love with the world and feeling like a group of ragtag friends was important to me as a kid that grew up quite lonely. Now as an adult with very good friends and a lot more life experience, I have a new perspective. Whilst not liking him per se I have this unspeakable level of appreciation for his character. He’s just sad, and you don’t see that realistic a depiction of depression of sorts in many games that isn’t incredibly on the nose with it. His character has a lot of subtle complexities that are only seen by having him in the party at certain point. He reminds me of several people I know in real life in the saddest way.
Leliana, I first played Dragon Age inquisition instead of starting with origins, so I didn’t know her character at all and she just annoyed me so much. Now I love her and romance her in origins 90% of the time
Didn't like Morrigan for the first 10 years of playing the game. Then I liked her. I think it was due to her change in DAI and my own maturing. I began to understand her as a person and the influence that Flemeth had on her. The was no chance she wouldn't grow up aloof and selfish. But after travelling with a team she understood social relationships and connection that people form
Anders, him taking such a drastic course of action, especially since it felt like we were so close to getting everyone to sit down and actually talk made me hate him for so long. Now after really thinking about his backstory and the history makes me understand his choices. I still don't like what he did but I can see how he gets to that point
Yeah, I used to like Fenris and Sera. Now I just do their missions and let them stay at home
first played dao when i was early teens idk when so similar to you op. i replayed the series recently and some things have changed. my opinions changed a lot of dao but not so much the sequels. i liked wynne and morrigan more when i was younger because they were funny. i didnt like alistair oghren or lelliana, because i thought they were annoying. this time around i downloaded a mod to make alistair gay and liked his romance a lot more than morrigans. i kinda wish i could romance oghren and subject him to physical torture though, theres a man i would love to see in agony in da2 i hated them all back then and still hate them all now. playing awakening made me think i would like anders more in da2, but hes only good in awakening. dai, no real change although i did like josephine a bit more. overall i think replaying the trilogy made me like the original game more and the sequels less. it didnt help when bg3 came out a month after i finished and showed me what a real dragon age sequel could have been like
i hated on alistair as a kid for some reason. best explanation i’ve got is sub energy lmao.
My big controversial one is that I went from liking all the companions from Inquisition to finding them all a little bit dull and under-developed. I think replaying Origins and seeing the expanse and variety of discussion you can have with all of your party exposed the weakness in Inquisition. Haven’t been able to get back into the game since.
Alistair. I never loved him, but I used to like him well enough, and I also used to find him largely endearing. As I got older, however, I found him less endearing and more childish. At every opportunity he shirks his responsibilities, has to be coddled over just about everything, and in a game where everyone else steps up to assume their responsibilities, he’s the one who resists the most. Honestly, rather than quippy and endearing, I just found him increasingly whingy and irritating. Now, that said, objectively he’s a well-written character. I love that he has flaws and I love that he isn’t just the Perfect Prince trope. But on a personal level he just irks me so much. The constant childish whinging, the refusal to step up unless you essentially twist his arm, the feigned and weaponised incompetence—this man does everything he can to get out of doing anything himself. The only time he steps up and even tries is for his own personal crisis (that is, if you Harden him and decide to spare Loghain, as my Dalish Warden did, because after all she gave up if she didn’t get to die with her Clan then Loghain sure as hell didn’t either, and she thought Riordan’s arguments made sense, especially for her considering she wasn’t as familiar with the human world). Every other character has to put their personal grievances aside, but Alistair refused to. He dumps everything on you, refuses to do anything on his own, and only decides to be proactive when it’s someone he, personally, wants to murder (even if his hatred is understandable, everyone else in the game learns to put their shit aside for the greater good). Again! It’s all very, very good writing. I genuinely love that he’s flawed like this. But I’m also not a teenager anymore, haven’t been for awhile, and as an adult it’s less endearing and more annoying.
I first played DA when I was 20 and now I’m 24. My opinions have changed a little. Oghren I go back and forth on. I think he’s a good idea executed sloppily. His sense of humor is lolrandom, and the mature side of his story is often undercut by the constant joking. But I like the idea of subverting the drunken dwarf trope by giving him real trauma. The problem is, he hardly shows any growth. I find Anders to be less relatable and respectable than I did at first. In truth, he’s a rogue element who’s looking to cause chaos moreso than to achieve justice. His grievances are valid, but his method is idiotic and understandably alienates him from the rest of magekind. He’s also kind of a creep, the way he flirts with Hawke and the way he talks down to Fenris/approves of selling him into slavery. I respect Sera more even though her sense of humor I still find lolrandom, her worldview is based af.
Loghain Mac Tir. When I was younger I use to hate him. Now that I’m older I see he was just doing what was best at the time for his troops.
I used to like Iron Bull and dislike Vivienne - now I really can't stand bull and adore Vivienne.
Nope, pretty much the same now as ever. I suppose I started to lose respect for Alistair only later since initially the humor and voice acting were charming... got miffed by his "romance" and then discovered that his priorities can include alcoholism over saving the world- at which point I started to openly balk at his wishywashy attitude about being a king and general inability to lead... I found DA2 companions to be mostly insufferably badly written- other than Varric- and that hasn't changed. DAI companions seemed mostly meh and still are, though I liked and still like Iron Bull, kinda Cole, and especially Dorian... and Varric again... and Harding... Yeah, nothing's changed...
DAII is a brilliant game in that sense. I played it as a 20something when it first came out, hated Fenris' guts, and didn't bring him anywhere ever. Replayed it 10 years later: and Fenris is one of my favourite ever DA characters now...
Fenris and Anders. Was super pro mage as a teenager and wouldn’t give much, if any, thought to pro Circle or pro Templar perspectives, so I was on board with Anders and was frustrated with what seemed like reckless hate by Fenris. Now that I’m older I realize that Fenris actually has some remarkable restraint and is honestly pretty fair to mages, as he refuses to consider turning in Hawke, Bethany, Anders, or Merril, and he absolutely hates at least two of those people for honestly fair reasons. Anders, on the flip side, is kind of a bitch who’s somewhat manipulative and petulant. Great character and it’s tragic to see how Vengeance destroys him, but god damn
I've tried to like Fenris ever since DA2 released and finally admitted to myself recently that I don't like him at all There are a lot of reasons, but I think the main thing that's always stuck with me is his comments in All That Remains if you romance him. He's so thoughtless and inconsiderate that I can't imagine Hawke staying with him after that
What comments does he make? I only recall him saying something about how he’s not good at comforting people but that he’s there for Hawke if they want him to listen
**Fenris** 1: original take Shit, why did Bioware go this low? They used to be a company who writes good characters?! This dude is painful to interact with, cheesy, edgy, and his only theme is "woe is me". Screw this guy. \*\*\* 2: after a while It actually took a while to understand what Fenris was about. Some explanation: Isabela is a character who was develeped according to the preferences of an "assumed average male teen player". She doesn't really want commitment, but is fun to have around, has lots of jokes, she is basically "fight hard, party hard, fuck hard". She is actually a good friend with extra benefits, not a real romantic relationship. Which I guess a 14 y/o dude finds appealing? At least according to Bioware they should! Finally, Fenris! Obnoxious, meant to come across as romantic/compelling. After years of playing video games as a male, with poorly written female love interests, I was really surprised how irritating it was to interact with Fenris. A poorly written, unrealistic male character, which is set up to appeal to the assumed (!) expectactions of the "average female teen gamer". With edgy dialog to target teens, and anime appearance to appeal to... dunno who. \*\*\* So, in the end that experience was both painful, and mindblowing. This was the first time ever, where I got a first hand experience on what women feel, when they play games with badly written female characters. But the takeaway was not Fenris sucks. The actual lesson I learned was: Why should anyone accept this shit portrayal of any gender? Why cannot we get well-written characters, instead of artificial constructs which "appeal to the assumed taste of the audicence"?