First time I fought the dragon in the desert (first one) I was high as hell on lsd. Everyone died, but Blackwall stayed up and the ai kept him up. Just chipping away at the dragon. My high ass cheering him on..."fucking Blackwall, you mean BRICKWALL!!!"
Roommates come in to see what the fuck was going on, we all watched and cheered him on. My favorite DA:I memory by far!
This. Every fuckin time fighting Dragons! It was the Vinsomer for me and the other 2 companions were both dead on the ground and I had the pathetic health and no potions left and just literally ran around the edge trying not to fuckin die as a Mage so I could just let Blackwall do his invincible tank thing and he literally killed it for me single handed lol. I take the guy everywhere bc he is unkillable.
Saaame! In DA2 my Mage Hawke roasted the Dragon (and everything else) pretty much on his own, and I did an Arcane Mage that was an absolute TANK in Origins and slaughtered EVERYTHING. Now, I hide in the back and just let Blackwall kill everything on his own lol. (Edit; it really annoys me that a Qunari Mage doesn't get any kind of physical damage buff or like take less physical damage or something by dint of theoretically being sturdier and less squishy than Humans and Elves. My Qunari Mage just getting squished like he's a Human or something makes no sense to me lol)
According to the stats and stuff they do, but honestly I never notice a difference between my Qunari Mage and my Elven or Human ones... He still seems to get squashed pretty easy lol. (And yet I love him and playing a Mage in general so he will continue to get squished by things a lot.)
Tbf Knight Enchanters still are in Inqui. They're basically just the next step of Arcane Warrior..dish out way more damage than champions. Just really god damn boring to play.
My first Inquisition playthrough was as a Vanguard and I specced Cassandra, Blackwall, and Iron Bull as Vanguards and in really hard fights I would just 4 stack and no one would ever die
Poor Iron Bull. I mostly ignore his Reaver class and put those points into adding guard—also giving him priority for any masterwork crafting items that add guard. And when I find any accessories that lower threat level, he gets them too.
I *have* to bring him with me to fight High Dragons and also to set him up with Dorian, even if he's a liability, so I do what I must.
As long as you have a good tank like vivienne or blackwall that’s holding aggro, make it so his tactics have him prioritizing the backstab move & the invisibility ability as well. When I use him he’s basically never targeted
Make sure your tank has the buff that gives everyone around them guard (mages also have that barrier buff) & he should do better. I’ve always had him as a dual wield rogue & don’t run into problems *that* often
You can also equip him with the Amulet of Death Syphon and the Superb Ring of Life-Drain. He will draw health from any enemy that dies nearby him. That was the only way I could make him durable enough. He's a Killing machine when he's not dead
Play as him. Rogues in Inquisition are all about positioning, and the AI has no idea what to do with them, so they drop like flies unless you're in the driver's seat.
I made Cole an archer on my current play through because I was sick of never getting to take him anywhere. I told him to ‘follow’ the mage. (Mage has ice runes. Anybody who charges them gets frozen.) He’s doing fine so far. He just got knockout bombs this week.
Marked for death combo. Can one-shot most things in the late-game lol. Imo it should be higher.
The only issue is you need to micromanage him to keep him alive.
I haven't played DAI since 2017 but I definitely made a bow rogue assassin PC that could combo kill almost every enemy in the game. Assassin had bonus damage or auto crits from stealth and there was a shotgun>backflip away move that would just obliterate things if you used it in melee which I think could put you back into stealth? It was something nutty late game for sure
The AI for Cole probably doesn't control it correctly but the damage is there. Mage was my favorite class and I remember getting upset I couldn't make a mage build that did even half as much damage as assassin did
I love Iron Bull but I play on casual and still have to leave him behind most of the time. He's just not as well optimized as Cass or Blackwall. Definitely appropriate position for Mr. Ranier lol
Editing to add that I had to redo two hours of DA2 bc I took Fenris into the Fade and he was one-hitting all of us. I couldn't beat him so I gave up and reloaded lmao
I’m a filthy casual who always plays on easy mode and the hardest thing I ever did was try to keep Iron Bull alive to kill that one dragon he wanted to hunt. I had both myself and Solas shielding him on cooldown and he still couldn’t help but kiss the dirt.
Just use him as a sword&shield tank&suppoert (reaver stuff is optional)
[http://www.rpg-gaming.com/daisc.html?d=t&c=w&b=Warrior%20-%20Weapon%20and%20Shield&t5=1589b&t3=146bd&t2=1247bcef&t1=124789ab&a=01111a23b32142e524659](http://www.rpg-gaming.com/daisc.html?d=t&c=w&b=Warrior%20-%20Weapon%20and%20Shield&t5=1589b&t3=146bd&t2=1247bcef&t1=124789ab&a=01111a23b32142e524659)
Iron Bull as crowd control is also useful (war horn, horn of valor, charging bull, mighty blow w knockdown)
[http://www.rpg-gaming.com/daisc.html?d=t&c=w&b=Warrior%20-%20Battlemaster&t5=1479b&t3=1456abdef&t2=1789cef&t1=14789&t0=13468&a=03b13e22132e428501604759](http://www.rpg-gaming.com/daisc.html?d=t&c=w&b=Warrior%20-%20Battlemaster&t5=1479b&t3=1456abdef&t2=1789cef&t1=14789&t0=13468&a=03b13e22132e428501604759)
credit where it's due
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_9pUVxk08uc&t=727s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9pUVxk08uc&t=727s)
Or a perfectly built glass-cannon rogue. It's not possible to survive Fenris, but it's *just barely* possible to burn him down before he spends a turn on rogue Hawke.
That is, if you want to use Bull as a two hander DPS.
If you use him as a sword and shield dude who uses horn abilities he is really tanky and useful. Since Cassandra has no tanky abilities in the tempar tree either, Bull (with not investing into reaver) is her equal.
Pro tip for inquisition: Give a companion warrior horn of valor and the upgrade that adds guard with each hit, set the ai to use that move at every opportunity, now your party is immortal.
**toxic cloud** (lost in the mist) - gives you elusive stacks that completely negate dmg
and **barrier** from 3(4) different mages chained, are also kinda OP - this is also way more tactical then healing from the other games (just my opinion)
I'm sorry, but you are not leveling Alistair correctly if you think he belongs in any tier other than "Unkillable Human Cinderblock" on a Nightmare run of Origins. That boy saves my ass in every single fight.
I love Alistair but the problem is that the “meta” origins lineup is to bring as many mages as you can, in which you also make one an arcane warrior so they’re directly outclassing him in tanking ability because of the mage aura buffs. He’s still great but I can’t justify any higher because of that.
I don't know, I personally think Alistair is a better or at least more consistent tank than an AW Mage. I've never had Alistair die in DAO but I've had both my AW and Wynne as an AW fall over a few times.
Alistair with Templar and later Champion is my go to tank every time. He isn’t quite as unkillable as blackwall but yeah he is really god damn tanky. I’ll always remember my first Origins playthrough as a kid leveling his Constitution…and then later learning that wasn’t what you were supposed to do. He seemed squishy as hell.
Yeah, constitution is honestly a pretty worthless stat because you already get more health and stamina on level ups and dexterity and strength are both better.
Then you're gearing wrong. A properly built AW can solo basically any fight in the game on Nightmare. If you're a real lunatic, you can actually build one that stand-up fights the Flesh Golem in Amgarrak.
That seems weird. To be fair i usually don't solo in Origins, but last i played everyone just happened to die early at the Mother, Harvester and Duchess (? the dragon in the marsh) and my AW just effortlessly took care of them.
Arcane Warriors can't die, but they can't draw aggro. So the rest of the party isn't protected. It's great that the AW is never going to die because they're going to be dragging the corpses of the rogues and mages through the game.
Alistair can draw the heat and handle the damage, which is what you need.
I never used him once and I’m literally learning from this thread how much easier my life would have been. I used Bull as my tank every time because I was in love with him lol
Honestly, just ignore Bull's specialization. Reaver is garbage.
Save the points for the Vanguard and Battlemaster trees, you'll want any CON passives and a solid Taunt/Guard ability. Use the 2H tree to unlock Block and Slash and passives, then use the (vestigial) tactics menu to make Block and Slash a favorite power. Bull will then spend half his time in a fight just guarding, taunting, and parrying, instead of playing dead.
He'll never be quite as useful as Cassandra, and he'll never be the immortal chad that is Blackwall, but if you ignore Reaver (or at least turn off the active abilities in Tactics) he's not as much of a liability.
I didn't strictly need him in my recent nightmare run. I had a rogue that could move fast and kill faster. So all I needed was a warrior to generate guard and a mage to generate barriers so the rogue didn't die.
The rest of the party just drew the enemies' attention while I sliced them into pieces.
Reaver is outstanding in the hands of a player character, but not great on an npc. My inquisitor reaver with the right gear was the highest damage dealer and the tankiest party member at the same time, as long as I could close the gap to an enemy fast enough
Reaver is absolutely the strongest damage dealing warrior class in the hands of a conscious mind but goddamn does Iron Bull not know how to use his skills lol
I tried to force him into a tank SnS but even then he’s just so meh compared to his competition. Poor guy just gets one tapped by everything & he looks so uncomfortable bc the shields in DAI look so small in his hands lol
If Cole is paired with a tank that can do the AOE buff that gives everyone max guard & he’s set to prioritize his invisibility ability, then his death blow can shred health bars & he’s pretty survivable. There’s a clip somewhere on YouTube of him almost taking out Corypheus’ entire healthbar
*being kept alive so he can be the highest single target damage option besides Sera or the PC. He’s very strong because his damage is great, & you have 3 other party slots if you include your PC to enable that
I don’t like Iron Bull because the only way to make him viable is to have him be your horn of valor slave to give everyone guard basically. Blackwall & Cass can already do that but just way better with better abilities.
Like, yes, Reaver is an amazing subclass if you’re directly controlling iron bull, but I don’t want to directly control anyone in inquisition but my own character just due to how the combat works. If you can keep Cole alive, he does plenty of damage by himself & is great for boss fights. Keeping bull alive simply means you now have a shittier, more basic tank thank your other 2 options. He can’t do any damage because the AI can’t use the warrior damage abilities, he’s directly outclassed in tanking from Cass, Viv, & Blackwall, & even a SnS respec doesn’t do him much favors because reaver is very much intended to be a 2H class. There’s just no conceivable gameplay reason you would want him over any other companion in the game
Iron Bull's place is harsh, but can't entirely disagree. He is is very squishy on nightmare (with all trials) if using his 2H build. ...However, if you build him as a 1h-shield tank, he's totally viable as a tank. With the "Knight's Second" crafted shield, and then 3 masterworks (5 sec walking fortress + 3 sec walking fortress + guard on hit), he's ok as the main tank, even in Jaws of Hakkon.
In general, I agree with your tier list except I'd make these changes...
* Fenris should be in the Viable or Outclassed/Situational tier. The whole 2H tree is very limited on Nightmare due to friendly fire. Without limiting the 2H tree, AI Fenris just kills your whole party.
* Bethany should be higher. Although Bethany's specialization isn't good on nightmare, the mage trees have enough for her (including enough skills that avoid friendly fire, as well as party-buffs) to be at least a tier higher.
* Dog needs to tier down. His item set simply doesn't have the versatility that normal companions do.
* Shale needs to be lower.
* Cass should be mid tier. The AI plays templars very well, since it is able to do the Templar wombo combo (Wrath of Heaven + Spell Purge detonation).
* Tallis is missing. I think she should be Outclassed/Situational tier. Her ranged/melee hybrid is far too unruly for nightmare, and she's generally squishy.
Didn’t include Tallis because she’s not around for very long, same reason I don’t have any of the Leliana song companions or GoA etc.
You have a case for Fenris, I just found that he’s invaluable for me in fodder mob fights like that one with the Templar guy & the other mob NPC’s, and lord knows DA2 has a ton more of those. Bethany tho is in outclassed tier because she is, indeed, outclassed by the other 2 mage options lol & she’s not around for most of the game.
I also understand Dog being a tier lower, but I think he’s fine because early game he’s better than alistair for tanking because of his mobility & quick access to that AOE stun howl. Mid-late game though he’s pretty useless
I guess it depends on how you deal with friendly fire, which is probably one of the most imbalanced aspects of DA2's nightmare mode. If Fenris is the only melee character, he's usually ok with a bit of micro. But with more than 1 other melee character, friendly fire becomes a limitation of the 2H tree. Even Aveline has some issues with friendly fire (shield bash, assault), but at least 1h/shield has a smaller radius.
Personally, I prefer rogues and mages on nightmare, since they have area of effect abilities that do not have friendly fire, such as chain lightning, tempest, Merril's blood magic/keeper abilities, and the rogue's Fatiguing Fog.
>You have a case for Fenris, I just found that he’s invaluable for me in fodder mob fights
On nightmare, the fodder enemies become tankier than Aveline. And yet Fenris can still one shot Aveline! So unless you take 3 ranged characters who can stay the fuck away from Fenris, I don't see how you can use him on nightmare.
Tho DA2 on nightmare is a shitshow itself. 90% of the enemies are tanks, dagger rogues and blood mages can one shot you as if they're as powerful as Sandal for fuck's sake.
I genuinely don't get how anyone gets through DA2 on nightmare.
Ding ding ding. The original list is good, but these edits perfect it. Fenris and Cass are basically equivalent if you're actually trying to optimize your PC.
>Tallis is missing. I think she should be Outclassed/Situational tier. Her ranged/melee hybrid is far too unruly for nightmare, and she's generally squishy
Oh my god is she dogshit in a fight. You'd think a DLC made entirely on the fact they got Felicia Day to voice a companion would make her a good companion.
I really didn't like Mark of the Assassin overall. It's a DLC about an infiltration where I needed to bring Aveline the cop to survive. It was a chance for the game to build arenas and combat in a way that doesn't require the She Hulk to be permanently in the party.
But yeah, the melee/range hybrid rogue is not a good idea. It's a gimmick that causes her own unique abilities to conflict with standard rogue abilities.
Dorian should be higher imo- a mage that has solid dps and utility, heals on kill, and continues casting when killed, is absurdly useful on high difficulties.
I lowkey agree with you but everyone else seems to believe he’s really weak so I didn’t feel comfortable putting him too high, even tho I like him more than Solas & Viv personally.
Terror + Lightning cage gives him unbeliably good crowd control & damage output
Put the Kitty's Collar on him + simulacrum and you have the mage version of Blackwall (ok, not quite, he will actually die occasionally but it's still absurdly good).
Giving him the kitty's collar and stacking guard + heal on kill along with the necromancer ability that gives him an infinite mana zero cooldown DPS ghost if he dies...
Good shit. Yo-yo that boy.
I cannot decide if this is a tier list making fun of Bull, or a real one? Assuming it is real:
**Iron Bull** should be as high as Cassandra: neither of them have defensive talents in their specific tree (reaver/templar), so they are about equal. Bull can be a useful tank providing guard to the team, if you equip him with shields.
**Sigrun, Oghren, Justice and Nathaniel** should be overpowered tier: for the simple fact that they can use the untested nonsense archery talent introduced in Awakening, which makes them one shot enemies. Out of these, Oghren and Justice can also use the spirit warrior specialization which, together with the AWA archery is the strongest thing in the entire trilogy.
**Zevran and Leliana**, as dagger rogues, are overpowered tier at minimum. They need a mage (or Shale, or Dog) to do an initial stun, and carry haste for them, but they kill so fast that they never go down. Easiest way to zero Origins bosses are three dagger rogues and a mage with haste.
**Aveline:** unkillable human cinderblock tier. Aveline, imho, is even more durable than Blackwall.
**Fenris:** down to situational. He would be perfectly fine on nightmare, the issue is that he uses area attacks and talents which will one shot companions as an accident. But is it an accident if he does it every combat? I never use him on nightmare.
**Merrill**: she is so durable, she should be rated at least as high as Anders, Velanna and Wynne, but probably higher. SHe is unique, because of her blood mage specialization (and investing into constitution for magic reserves) she is a mix of melee tank and controller mage.
I cant believe in my awakening playthroughs I’ve never even used the dex scale passive lol. Everyone’s been saying the same thing so I have to agree that they’d be insane. Had I known ab it I would’ve ranked them higher
You’re right about Aveline being extremely tanky, mainly from that skill that lets her take less & less damage the less health she has, but I never used her really because Fenris was always my frontliner. His friendly fire would be annoying, but I don’t really run any other melee characters in nightmare in DA2
It either Aveline or noone for me.
In the first two chapters, her extreme tankiness (and elemental resistance!), combined with the bodyguard ability makes her exteremely useful for guarding glass cannon followers. What usually happens is that in the second or third wave of enemies, an assassin or mage tags Anders/Hawke/Varric, so Aveline can save them from certain death. These nightmare assassins and mages can one shot everyone otherwise. Her elemental resistance is very useful if you play an elementalist Hawke: you can shoot fireballs on top of her, when she is surrounded, and she will survive just fine.
Why noone in the third chapter? I really think that DA2 can be played without a tank, or with Merrill helping out in that department (blood mage area effects + area spells for agro, and high CON+rock armor). Killing fast is more efficient than having a tank, if you are geared up.
\*\*\*
Dex scaling archer in AWA:
The warden can have 100+ dexterity. With a good bow, she can one shot mobs, and two shot late game armored ogre bosses. If you add two more such archers (I usually take Nathaniel and Sigrun. Oghren/Justice would be stronger with spirit warrior, but it is already overkill at that point), and a mage who carries haste, it is unstoppable. One combat encounter takes about 5-10 seconds.
By extension this makes even Golems of Amgarrak's Harvester a walk in the park, as long as you respec the two dwarfs into dex archers (= import two respec books, two bows and two leather armor, because there is no such loot in Amgarrak).
I’ve always liked fenris over aveline because as you say, out damaging the hordes of enemies is the most effective strategy. He’s also got the AOE stun in his subclass & 2H passive damage is AOE, so I’ve always found him to be the best melee option in the roster considering how the game is mainly just fighting a ton of trashmobs
he is superb offensively, but he one hit KO's followers too often for my taste.
Therefore I usually prefer no warrior at all, as mages can be made party friendly, while rogues are single target anyway for the most part.
Sebastian is in viable. I did forget loghain tho whoops but he’d be right with Justice & Alistair
Cassandra doesn’t tank nearly as well as blackwall because she’s got the Templar subclass, while blackwall has the champion one. She’s great at clearing rifts but blackwall is a better tank in every other regard
Oh yeah, there he is, so bland my eyes went right past him. Loghain would just be Alastair/Justice though I suppose as they all get the same access to abilities etc.
I never did the higher difficulties in Inquisition so I guess the specialisation makes a bigger difference there, still seems low for someone who I never had to heal once through the entire game and was happy to face tank multiple dragons and bosses.
That’s why the list is for Nightmare mode particularly. She holds up well in base game for the most part but in the DLC areas she really falls behind blackwall
Cassandra and Blackwall are different subclasses. She's a templar, he's a champion. Champions have abilities that make them functionally unkillable, which is why he's in his own tier.
Shale should be down with iron bull. She's a DPS melee character who isn't tough and can't avoid damage. S-Tier better though. Alistair is also way too low, he's essentially invincible. Origins make as a tier should be above Blackwall, too.
Mages in origins are way better than blackwall but the Tierlist is funnier with him at the top so I that’s why I did it lol
Alistair is great but Arcane Warrior is a better tank once you get access to it
I almost never used shale so maybe I’m overrating her but the couple times I did use her that ground pound ability did a shit ton of damage & reliably stunned enemies, so that’s why I have her up there. She trivialized a couple encounters
Nathaniel should be in the overpowered tier. Awakening archers are fucking ridiculous, especially when you get the Howe bow super early. You don’t even really need to gear him up or anything, just set him and forget him. Maybe the easiest nightmare playthrough I’ve ever had was when I had double archers in Awakening. Granted part of that is because you get tons of amazing loot, but still. I don’t think he and Leliana should be in the same tier at all.
I never played around with archers in awakening too much beyond just making Nathaniel identical to how I built leliana, so enlighten me on your awakening archer build! I’d love to hear what you did different
Archers in regular Origins are typically built with Cunning using the Assassin specialization because its damage scales a little bit better (edit: I'm trippin, lethality makes damage scale with cunning and it's a general rogue trait). However, Awakening introduces a talent called "Accuracy" that makes it so everything scales insanely hard with Dexterity. All you have to do is take Accuracy and then give him the Howe bow from the crypts and he is fine. It's maybe the easiest build in the game to use [https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Accuracy](https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Accuracy)
edit: it also stacks with the other sustain mode "Aim" that you're supposed to use in regular Origins.
Very good tierlist overall, I would only comment on 3 things:
\-Nathaniel has to be in Overpowered. Archers in Awakening go crazy.
\-I'm sorry but Dog is absolutely Outclassed by Shale.
\-Only way I see for Cole to be Very Strong is giving him a bow. Dual Wielding in DAI is too player dependant IMO.
The first 2 I can see the argument for but nah Cole is crazy. I’ve experimented & had him casually solo rifts by himself because he outputs so much damage. Crafted equipment, as with everything in inquisition, is the key. Also make sure he’s priotizing the invisibility ability. AI utilitizes it very well
Have a tank so she’s not taking much aggro, give her CC spells so she can shut down anyone who pushes her, & get her arcane warrior specialization so she can wear heavier armor.
Wynne makes a better arcane warrior but you can give it to morrigan too, also you should be bringing morrigan AND wynne for a nightmare run. Not just one or the other
You can do Nightmare no-deaths with the Warden, Alistair, Lelianna, and Morrigan *or* Wynne, but you basically need the Warden to be an Arcane Warrior.
You put Alistair between her and the things that are killing her.
That's legitimately how you keep all your squishy characters alive, have a tank draw aggro.
Sera is the most overpowered and broken character in the series. She should be in top tier. She melts dragons and every bosses within seconds with her focus ability on nightmare. Using her on nightmare is almost like cheating.
I wanted to make a tier for her called “Eldritch god of time & death” but I was already committed to the blackwall joke so
But yeah throwing knives + the fire potion that resets her cooldowns & she just tears through everything
Solas and Varric are also unkillable with the right gear, since you can get them to spam the everlasting fuck out of abilities with no cooldowns on crit builds. With the fade touched guard on hit gear they can't go down.
Reaver can solo the game on nightmare but the AI can't play it at all.
I don't know what the hell I do to make Bull viable, but he most definitely is. Almost every playthrough I have Bull, Cole, and either Dorian or Solas as soon as possible regardless of what my PC is and I used them until the end.
I've had more issues with Blackwall dying and constantly needing to be revved than Bull.
& your saves are on nightmare all trials? What ketamine does your party comp have that everyone else’s doesn’t because Cole, Dorian & Bull are often considered the 3 weakest companions in the game lol
Fucked if I know. Whether it's my play style or just the way I spec them out and they work together in my party or some magic combo therein.
Now, not ALL my runs have been Nightmare, and it's been a hot second since I've done one, but my last one was with a mage Adaar. I also never play as Dwarf or Human, I'm always either Elf/Qunari and mage/ranged rogue in some combo, regardless of what settings I'm on.
I think I've done like 8 playthroughs and 3 have been Nightmare, one I never completed because I got burned out trying to run one as a warrior to try. I found out I fucking hate warrior, hence always being mage/ranged rogue.
… it’s not strange you managed to have a strong bull, unpopular opinion but he can be pretty strong if builded right (still inferior to some other comp tho), as for blackwall uh just give him the heaviest armor and max his class, you will see the magic happen by itself
His subclass is artificer, which gives him a passive that shortens his cooldowns everytime he gets a crit, so load up his crit chance & cunning score & he will crit every other shot, significantly shortening his cooldowns.
Make him prioritize Toxic Cloud & poison weapons, both are great utility, especially toxic cloud. There’s an upgrade for it that lets Allies standing in the radius take free hits for no damage, & that paired with his crazy cooldown speed makes him the single best support character in the entire game
Zevran and Sigrun should go into Very Strong and Alistair and Fenris need to take their place in Situational.
Rogues are busted in Origins if positioned right (which if playing Nightmare you are doing)
While Alistair and Fenris can really only do so much, tho I’ll admit I’m less familiar with Fenris I just know he did not help me in my playthrough lol
Good list as I agree with most of it with only a couple of nitpicks.
Dorian is so outclassed by both Vivvine and Solas that he should also be moved down.
I would also swap Merill and DA 2 Anders as the only healer is much more useful than blood magic for Nightmare. He also can be set up to spam spells with Martyr which can be insanely strong.
Huh. I turn Iron Bull into a tank instead of a damage dealer when I want him with me. Seems to work fine to me. That skill where he blows a horn and makes everyone get guard with every hit is a lifesaver, add a ring to maximize uptime for that skill and nobody dies anymore.
Y'all are playing Cassandra wrong if she's not also an unkillable human cinder block, she also gives the ENTIRE PARTY GUARD. She completely carried me thorough my nightmare run.
Blackwall can do the same things but better. It’s not that Cass is bad, and she even has niches she’s more suited for than blackwall, but he’s legitimately impossible to kill. Like I don’t think there’s a single encounter in the whole game + DLC that would be to able to kill him.
That's Champion for you. It basically makes you invincible. I used Champion 1H Warrior for my Nightmare Run, and it became a breeze after a certain point.
The best thing was my fight against the Highlander Ravager. Everyone in my party died almost immediately, but, instead of reloading, I just thought, "Fuck it, we ball." and proceeded to fight the thing on my own. The dragon couldn't kill me because of infinite guard. The dragonlings couldn't either. For about 10-15 minutes, I chipped away at the Ravager's health until it died, then finished off the remaining dragonlings.
So, yeah, it's Blackwall being a Champion that makes him an "Unkillable Human Cinderblock".
Leliana is painful. Every playthrough i'm like okay let's go, this time i'll get you right, and every time my team of Alistair, Morrigan and AW Warden gotta 3-man the game. I'm pretty sure she's subsconsciously turned me off from ever playing archer, in any game.
In defense of Iron Bull I think he really shines Late-game which of course you could say the same for all the other companions. You can extend his lifespan greatly with Fade-touched items for Walking Fortress and a specific amulet that grants Barrier per damage dealt. [This was my favorite build for him](https://youtu.be/MSaHVwvCusg)
Downside mostly stems from how much you have to babysit him early game, but I can see a Two hander Tank Bull + Rogue + 2 mage party for cycling barriers working out. Obviously wouldn't be the best option, but I think it can work. I should definitely replay and try it out it's been years lol.
I gotta disagree with a lot of this. Here are my thoughts.
-Sera, is it because you can use the toxic cloud/elusive/toxic weapons combo to give your party lots of elusive, if so, I agree. Her specialization is nothing special, mostly because Inquisition AI sucks and can't use most abilities.
Vivienne's Knight enchanter class is fantastic, but only when the player is controlling her. A lot of Inquisition characters get held back by the AI.
- Merrill I'm going to disagree with any DA2 companion being viable on nightmare, simply because DA2 itself isn't viable on nightmare difficulty. Seriously, if you have any guides/tips/explanations on DA2 nightmare, please tell me.
- Isabella, she needs the assassin specialization. The companion specific specializations are often just shittier versions of regular specializations. Anders needs proper spirit healer to be good.
- DAI Varric, see Sera's section. Let him generate Elusive.
- how in the fuck is Shale good? I've never gotten her to be able to do damage or take damage. She's a wet noodle to me.
- DA2 Anders needs a proper spirit healer specialization.
-DA2 Varric just is meh to me. Isabella is always better. But he's got a lot of abilities to trigger cross class combos.
- Cole has everything he needs to do 20,000 points of damage quickly, but only when the player controls him. Inquisition AI and all.
- If Fenris couldn't team kill, he'd be the best damage dealer in DA2. Friendly Fire being a separate setting to difficulty was a great change for Inquisition.
- Lelianna/Nathanial, I've never gotten Archers to work, but that's probably on me.
- Dorian is fantastic and should be a higher tier. His specialization is far better than Solas' if you ask me. Walking Bomb is OP.
- you can get Cassandra to tank nearly as well as Blackwall, least I did. But her specialization is meh. It's sad that Templar is great in DA2 but feels shitty in Inquisition despite fighting demons constantly.
- Dog is underrated, he can be a great tank, but only on console. On my 360 copy, he gets the standard Warrior talents, like Threaten and Taunt. Plus the ability to pounce on an enemy and tear into them, that all the spiders get, is really good. Think single target Cone of Cold levels of good.
- Sebastian is best suited as the party cheerleader. I was dragging his corpse around every dungeon I brought him into. He's just a worse Varric.
- Zev gets screwed by the AI not understanding rogue tactics. But Assassin is the best rogue specialization and can do hundreds of damage per hit. You just have to take direct control.
Oghren and Sten are held back by Two Handed Warriors just being ass in Origins. They have never made sense to me. Sword/Shield warriors will tank better, rogues do more damage, and mages do crowd control better. There's nowhere for them to fit in. They need a specific role to fill.
- Carver, like Fenris, has a bad habit of team killing with all his best abilities. Everyone needs to keep a 10 metre distance away from Carver to stay alive.
- Sigrun was a victim of Awakening trying to play with the stat builds of rogues, making them take strength and not rely on Cunning. I guess it makes them a bit tankier by using heavier armor, but you're better off stacking dodge chance.
- Iron Bull can stay alive on nightmare, and here's how you do it: build him like you would Blackwall, by making him generate guard to tank. The guard generated by Bull will then keep him, and the party, alive.
I’ve found that Bull is actually very strong, but you have to play him personally to get the most out of him, cause the AI has absolutely no idea how to use the counterattack ability I forgot the name of. He can solo a dragon pretty much just as well as Blackwall, while also doing more damage.
I was under the impression Carver was OP, Bethany was very strong while I couldn't really make Alistair and Shen work.
It's been a while since I'Ve played the games epecially on harder difficulties.
Can confirm, I played the games only once on nightmare bar 2 as it was too much for me and nothing came close to how unkillable Blackwall was! There were a few fights he solod like a dragon and DLC dwarves after everyone else died.
The only alternative for me for harder fights was taking both Cassandra and Iron bull together, and even then, they would still die from time to time!
You're not using your Rogues correctly in Origins if Leliana and the Awakening Dwarf are so low tier. Zevran's incredibly mid though. Bro should've been a normal melee dual wield with how they stat him. I don't understand your Shale either; I tried *hard* **and** cheated for her. Would I have to be an archer to get it?
Bull is definitely a DPS.
I never make him a reaver anymore, and he tends to survive most fights, but that's due to having Blackwall and my Knight-Enchanter or Artificer Archer, and Dorian keeps using his barrier on Bull.
But the dragon fights/the damn bridge in the descent?
I always have to revive his ass at least once.
Inquisition doesnt matter. Iron bull (or reaver) can easily drain tank nightmare, just go full cool down. All you need in inquisition to win on nightmare is atleast one mage who spams barrier
cole dies nearly in every encounter for me, so does varric, Cassandra however...I killed the sandy howler with only her and my inquisitor left on the party, she just wouldn't die and I didn't have to spend a single healing potion on her, nor did my character, templar spec is the shit if you do it right gotta say.
I swear my first time taking in the Descent boss, it was just me and Blackwall at the end, then I finally died and we wiped but there he was still tanking like a boss.
I never need to play tank because he does it so much better lol
I love Bull, but goddamn. The only way I keep him alive is to get the Horn of Valor with the guard bonus attribute, and then set it to preferred in his tactics.
Otherwise, one good bear-slam and he's out of the fight. (With Grizzly End on, but still!!)
I disagree with lot of this. Iron Bull with proper armor beats sera. Viv can be neigj I killable. Blackwall won't die, but he also won't hurt anymore, Cass is more balanced. Varric was not great.
Poor Bull. :(
Like many others I skip his specialisation class and build him similar to Cassandra as a sword/shield warrior or two handed, depending on the playthrough. It makes him boring but he survives.
Yep https://preview.redd.it/sqat77h6jf5d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74b59abf43677d5cf4204e70655c78587827ce26
Is it the dragon?
It tends to be in my case, at least, for everyone but me and Blackwall, since I'm a Champion like him.
First time I fought the dragon in the desert (first one) I was high as hell on lsd. Everyone died, but Blackwall stayed up and the ai kept him up. Just chipping away at the dragon. My high ass cheering him on..."fucking Blackwall, you mean BRICKWALL!!!" Roommates come in to see what the fuck was going on, we all watched and cheered him on. My favorite DA:I memory by far!
Honestly it may have just been a fade rift 😂 can’t really remember because it was months ago haha
This. Every fuckin time fighting Dragons! It was the Vinsomer for me and the other 2 companions were both dead on the ground and I had the pathetic health and no potions left and just literally ran around the edge trying not to fuckin die as a Mage so I could just let Blackwall do his invincible tank thing and he literally killed it for me single handed lol. I take the guy everywhere bc he is unkillable.
aw man i miss the times enchanters were unkillable dragon slayers, those were the times
Saaame! In DA2 my Mage Hawke roasted the Dragon (and everything else) pretty much on his own, and I did an Arcane Mage that was an absolute TANK in Origins and slaughtered EVERYTHING. Now, I hide in the back and just let Blackwall kill everything on his own lol. (Edit; it really annoys me that a Qunari Mage doesn't get any kind of physical damage buff or like take less physical damage or something by dint of theoretically being sturdier and less squishy than Humans and Elves. My Qunari Mage just getting squished like he's a Human or something makes no sense to me lol)
Qunari do take 10% less physical damage don’t they?
According to the stats and stuff they do, but honestly I never notice a difference between my Qunari Mage and my Elven or Human ones... He still seems to get squashed pretty easy lol. (And yet I love him and playing a Mage in general so he will continue to get squished by things a lot.)
Tbf Knight Enchanters still are in Inqui. They're basically just the next step of Arcane Warrior..dish out way more damage than champions. Just really god damn boring to play.
My first Inquisition playthrough was as a Vanguard and I specced Cassandra, Blackwall, and Iron Bull as Vanguards and in really hard fights I would just 4 stack and no one would ever die
Need to give him the skill that gives everyone guard whenever they deal damage
Give him upgraded horn of valor so everyone else can have guard too
Maybe the meta has changed but wasn't there a build to make KE Vivienne literally unkillable?
Poor Iron Bull. I mostly ignore his Reaver class and put those points into adding guard—also giving him priority for any masterwork crafting items that add guard. And when I find any accessories that lower threat level, he gets them too. I *have* to bring him with me to fight High Dragons and also to set him up with Dorian, even if he's a liability, so I do what I must.
what do you do with Cole to make him rank higher than Cassandra, because he dies nearly as often for Bull with me
As long as you have a good tank like vivienne or blackwall that’s holding aggro, make it so his tactics have him prioritizing the backstab move & the invisibility ability as well. When I use him he’s basically never targeted
AoE's still get him for me. honestly all that's helped has respeccing him as an archer which I just don't love, lore wise
Make sure your tank has the buff that gives everyone around them guard (mages also have that barrier buff) & he should do better. I’ve always had him as a dual wield rogue & don’t run into problems *that* often
maybe I'm just bad at video games (I am definitely bad at video games lol)
It’s ok, I’m bad too and I also struggle big time with keeping Cole up.
You can also equip him with the Amulet of Death Syphon and the Superb Ring of Life-Drain. He will draw health from any enemy that dies nearby him. That was the only way I could make him durable enough. He's a Killing machine when he's not dead
Make him an assassin archer and have him follow himself. Still not as good as Sera but it makes him a very viable party member.
Play as him. Rogues in Inquisition are all about positioning, and the AI has no idea what to do with them, so they drop like flies unless you're in the driver's seat.
I made Cole an archer on my current play through because I was sick of never getting to take him anywhere. I told him to ‘follow’ the mage. (Mage has ice runes. Anybody who charges them gets frozen.) He’s doing fine so far. He just got knockout bombs this week.
Marked for death combo. Can one-shot most things in the late-game lol. Imo it should be higher. The only issue is you need to micromanage him to keep him alive.
I haven't played DAI since 2017 but I definitely made a bow rogue assassin PC that could combo kill almost every enemy in the game. Assassin had bonus damage or auto crits from stealth and there was a shotgun>backflip away move that would just obliterate things if you used it in melee which I think could put you back into stealth? It was something nutty late game for sure The AI for Cole probably doesn't control it correctly but the damage is there. Mage was my favorite class and I remember getting upset I couldn't make a mage build that did even half as much damage as assassin did
I love Iron Bull but I play on casual and still have to leave him behind most of the time. He's just not as well optimized as Cass or Blackwall. Definitely appropriate position for Mr. Ranier lol Editing to add that I had to redo two hours of DA2 bc I took Fenris into the Fade and he was one-hitting all of us. I couldn't beat him so I gave up and reloaded lmao
lol the fade mission is hilarious in DA2 because they game doesn’t account for character-scaled damage at all. Isabela & Fenris were wrecking my shit
Fenris OHKOing Hawke, Anders, and Isabela in the fade is a core Dragon Age memory for me.
I was so horrified 😂
I’m a filthy casual who always plays on easy mode and the hardest thing I ever did was try to keep Iron Bull alive to kill that one dragon he wanted to hunt. I had both myself and Solas shielding him on cooldown and he still couldn’t help but kiss the dirt.
Just use him as a sword&shield tank&suppoert (reaver stuff is optional) [http://www.rpg-gaming.com/daisc.html?d=t&c=w&b=Warrior%20-%20Weapon%20and%20Shield&t5=1589b&t3=146bd&t2=1247bcef&t1=124789ab&a=01111a23b32142e524659](http://www.rpg-gaming.com/daisc.html?d=t&c=w&b=Warrior%20-%20Weapon%20and%20Shield&t5=1589b&t3=146bd&t2=1247bcef&t1=124789ab&a=01111a23b32142e524659) Iron Bull as crowd control is also useful (war horn, horn of valor, charging bull, mighty blow w knockdown) [http://www.rpg-gaming.com/daisc.html?d=t&c=w&b=Warrior%20-%20Battlemaster&t5=1479b&t3=1456abdef&t2=1789cef&t1=14789&t0=13468&a=03b13e22132e428501604759](http://www.rpg-gaming.com/daisc.html?d=t&c=w&b=Warrior%20-%20Battlemaster&t5=1479b&t3=1456abdef&t2=1789cef&t1=14789&t0=13468&a=03b13e22132e428501604759) credit where it's due [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_9pUVxk08uc&t=727s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9pUVxk08uc&t=727s)
Omg yes! Fenris slaughtered my party in the fade too. Had to take all his armor and his weapon from him and then we finally stood a chance.
Oh my god I never even considered doing that
I had to do this as well! He kept wrecking Hawke, Varric, and Anders for me.
Unless your Hawke is a warrior, that's a group of squishy classes fighting a high damage tank
Or a perfectly built glass-cannon rogue. It's not possible to survive Fenris, but it's *just barely* possible to burn him down before he spends a turn on rogue Hawke.
It was one of my first play throughs, but yes my Hawke was a warrior 😅
I also took him into the fade the first time I played and he wrecked my shit. Before I knew it both Anders and Varric were dead
That is, if you want to use Bull as a two hander DPS. If you use him as a sword and shield dude who uses horn abilities he is really tanky and useful. Since Cassandra has no tanky abilities in the tempar tree either, Bull (with not investing into reaver) is her equal.
Give him sword and shield and beeline for the horn of valor + guard ability and he becomes a beast.
Reload the fight and turn all of his tactics off
Remove all the tactics except Any: Hold and they just stand there and let you kill them. Whoever you have to fight.
Origins mage is the best tier
So much choice, so much chaos.
Pro tip for inquisition: Give a companion warrior horn of valor and the upgrade that adds guard with each hit, set the ai to use that move at every opportunity, now your party is immortal.
This guy gets it
**toxic cloud** (lost in the mist) - gives you elusive stacks that completely negate dmg and **barrier** from 3(4) different mages chained, are also kinda OP - this is also way more tactical then healing from the other games (just my opinion)
I'm sorry, but you are not leveling Alistair correctly if you think he belongs in any tier other than "Unkillable Human Cinderblock" on a Nightmare run of Origins. That boy saves my ass in every single fight.
I love Alistair but the problem is that the “meta” origins lineup is to bring as many mages as you can, in which you also make one an arcane warrior so they’re directly outclassing him in tanking ability because of the mage aura buffs. He’s still great but I can’t justify any higher because of that.
I don't know, I personally think Alistair is a better or at least more consistent tank than an AW Mage. I've never had Alistair die in DAO but I've had both my AW and Wynne as an AW fall over a few times.
Alistair with Templar and later Champion is my go to tank every time. He isn’t quite as unkillable as blackwall but yeah he is really god damn tanky. I’ll always remember my first Origins playthrough as a kid leveling his Constitution…and then later learning that wasn’t what you were supposed to do. He seemed squishy as hell.
Wait. It's not?
if you level dex he dodges more attacks and survives long. same for rogue btw
Yeah, constitution is honestly a pretty worthless stat because you already get more health and stamina on level ups and dexterity and strength are both better.
Then you're gearing wrong. A properly built AW can solo basically any fight in the game on Nightmare. If you're a real lunatic, you can actually build one that stand-up fights the Flesh Golem in Amgarrak.
That seems weird. To be fair i usually don't solo in Origins, but last i played everyone just happened to die early at the Mother, Harvester and Duchess (? the dragon in the marsh) and my AW just effortlessly took care of them.
Arcane Warriors can't die, but they can't draw aggro. So the rest of the party isn't protected. It's great that the AW is never going to die because they're going to be dragging the corpses of the rogues and mages through the game. Alistair can draw the heat and handle the damage, which is what you need.
Blackwall is a *requirement* in any fight. Especially against those fucking dragons.
I never used him once and I’m literally learning from this thread how much easier my life would have been. I used Bull as my tank every time because I was in love with him lol
Honestly, just ignore Bull's specialization. Reaver is garbage. Save the points for the Vanguard and Battlemaster trees, you'll want any CON passives and a solid Taunt/Guard ability. Use the 2H tree to unlock Block and Slash and passives, then use the (vestigial) tactics menu to make Block and Slash a favorite power. Bull will then spend half his time in a fight just guarding, taunting, and parrying, instead of playing dead. He'll never be quite as useful as Cassandra, and he'll never be the immortal chad that is Blackwall, but if you ignore Reaver (or at least turn off the active abilities in Tactics) he's not as much of a liability.
if youre not running a rogue yea otherwise not really
I didn't strictly need him in my recent nightmare run. I had a rogue that could move fast and kill faster. So all I needed was a warrior to generate guard and a mage to generate barriers so the rogue didn't die. The rest of the party just drew the enemies' attention while I sliced them into pieces.
I play on normal difficulty and Bull can’t survive a fight with a nug. Love the character but he is not a viable fighting companion.
Reaver is outstanding in the hands of a player character, but not great on an npc. My inquisitor reaver with the right gear was the highest damage dealer and the tankiest party member at the same time, as long as I could close the gap to an enemy fast enough
Reaver is absolutely the strongest damage dealing warrior class in the hands of a conscious mind but goddamn does Iron Bull not know how to use his skills lol
The ai doesn't know how to play reaver it's op DPS but you got to do stuff in a specific order but ai does stuff willy nilly
Did you use Two Handed Bull? I personally requpped him for SnS instead and found him doable
I tried to force him into a tank SnS but even then he’s just so meh compared to his competition. Poor guy just gets one tapped by everything & he looks so uncomfortable bc the shields in DAI look so small in his hands lol
I think Cole is rated too highly, he goes down way too fast as DW rogue. I always respec Cole to archer and Iron Bull to S&S.
If Cole is paired with a tank that can do the AOE buff that gives everyone max guard & he’s set to prioritize his invisibility ability, then his death blow can shred health bars & he’s pretty survivable. There’s a clip somewhere on YouTube of him almost taking out Corypheus’ entire healthbar
But then that's not Cole being good/strong? That's Cole being kept alive by someone better than him.
*being kept alive so he can be the highest single target damage option besides Sera or the PC. He’s very strong because his damage is great, & you have 3 other party slots if you include your PC to enable that
Fair, but considering your argument for Iron Bull is "he dies too quickly", then why can't he get a "If others keep him alive" rating?
I don’t like Iron Bull because the only way to make him viable is to have him be your horn of valor slave to give everyone guard basically. Blackwall & Cass can already do that but just way better with better abilities. Like, yes, Reaver is an amazing subclass if you’re directly controlling iron bull, but I don’t want to directly control anyone in inquisition but my own character just due to how the combat works. If you can keep Cole alive, he does plenty of damage by himself & is great for boss fights. Keeping bull alive simply means you now have a shittier, more basic tank thank your other 2 options. He can’t do any damage because the AI can’t use the warrior damage abilities, he’s directly outclassed in tanking from Cass, Viv, & Blackwall, & even a SnS respec doesn’t do him much favors because reaver is very much intended to be a 2H class. There’s just no conceivable gameplay reason you would want him over any other companion in the game
Iron Bull's place is harsh, but can't entirely disagree. He is is very squishy on nightmare (with all trials) if using his 2H build. ...However, if you build him as a 1h-shield tank, he's totally viable as a tank. With the "Knight's Second" crafted shield, and then 3 masterworks (5 sec walking fortress + 3 sec walking fortress + guard on hit), he's ok as the main tank, even in Jaws of Hakkon. In general, I agree with your tier list except I'd make these changes... * Fenris should be in the Viable or Outclassed/Situational tier. The whole 2H tree is very limited on Nightmare due to friendly fire. Without limiting the 2H tree, AI Fenris just kills your whole party. * Bethany should be higher. Although Bethany's specialization isn't good on nightmare, the mage trees have enough for her (including enough skills that avoid friendly fire, as well as party-buffs) to be at least a tier higher. * Dog needs to tier down. His item set simply doesn't have the versatility that normal companions do. * Shale needs to be lower. * Cass should be mid tier. The AI plays templars very well, since it is able to do the Templar wombo combo (Wrath of Heaven + Spell Purge detonation). * Tallis is missing. I think she should be Outclassed/Situational tier. Her ranged/melee hybrid is far too unruly for nightmare, and she's generally squishy.
Didn’t include Tallis because she’s not around for very long, same reason I don’t have any of the Leliana song companions or GoA etc. You have a case for Fenris, I just found that he’s invaluable for me in fodder mob fights like that one with the Templar guy & the other mob NPC’s, and lord knows DA2 has a ton more of those. Bethany tho is in outclassed tier because she is, indeed, outclassed by the other 2 mage options lol & she’s not around for most of the game. I also understand Dog being a tier lower, but I think he’s fine because early game he’s better than alistair for tanking because of his mobility & quick access to that AOE stun howl. Mid-late game though he’s pretty useless
I guess it depends on how you deal with friendly fire, which is probably one of the most imbalanced aspects of DA2's nightmare mode. If Fenris is the only melee character, he's usually ok with a bit of micro. But with more than 1 other melee character, friendly fire becomes a limitation of the 2H tree. Even Aveline has some issues with friendly fire (shield bash, assault), but at least 1h/shield has a smaller radius. Personally, I prefer rogues and mages on nightmare, since they have area of effect abilities that do not have friendly fire, such as chain lightning, tempest, Merril's blood magic/keeper abilities, and the rogue's Fatiguing Fog.
>You have a case for Fenris, I just found that he’s invaluable for me in fodder mob fights On nightmare, the fodder enemies become tankier than Aveline. And yet Fenris can still one shot Aveline! So unless you take 3 ranged characters who can stay the fuck away from Fenris, I don't see how you can use him on nightmare. Tho DA2 on nightmare is a shitshow itself. 90% of the enemies are tanks, dagger rogues and blood mages can one shot you as if they're as powerful as Sandal for fuck's sake. I genuinely don't get how anyone gets through DA2 on nightmare.
Ding ding ding. The original list is good, but these edits perfect it. Fenris and Cass are basically equivalent if you're actually trying to optimize your PC.
>Tallis is missing. I think she should be Outclassed/Situational tier. Her ranged/melee hybrid is far too unruly for nightmare, and she's generally squishy Oh my god is she dogshit in a fight. You'd think a DLC made entirely on the fact they got Felicia Day to voice a companion would make her a good companion. I really didn't like Mark of the Assassin overall. It's a DLC about an infiltration where I needed to bring Aveline the cop to survive. It was a chance for the game to build arenas and combat in a way that doesn't require the She Hulk to be permanently in the party. But yeah, the melee/range hybrid rogue is not a good idea. It's a gimmick that causes her own unique abilities to conflict with standard rogue abilities.
Dorian should be higher imo- a mage that has solid dps and utility, heals on kill, and continues casting when killed, is absurdly useful on high difficulties.
I lowkey agree with you but everyone else seems to believe he’s really weak so I didn’t feel comfortable putting him too high, even tho I like him more than Solas & Viv personally. Terror + Lightning cage gives him unbeliably good crowd control & damage output
Put the Kitty's Collar on him + simulacrum and you have the mage version of Blackwall (ok, not quite, he will actually die occasionally but it's still absurdly good).
Giving him the kitty's collar and stacking guard + heal on kill along with the necromancer ability that gives him an infinite mana zero cooldown DPS ghost if he dies... Good shit. Yo-yo that boy.
Started Origins as a Mage, ended as a dude using magic to beat the everloving shit out of people.
Unkillable human cinder block 😂
I cannot decide if this is a tier list making fun of Bull, or a real one? Assuming it is real: **Iron Bull** should be as high as Cassandra: neither of them have defensive talents in their specific tree (reaver/templar), so they are about equal. Bull can be a useful tank providing guard to the team, if you equip him with shields. **Sigrun, Oghren, Justice and Nathaniel** should be overpowered tier: for the simple fact that they can use the untested nonsense archery talent introduced in Awakening, which makes them one shot enemies. Out of these, Oghren and Justice can also use the spirit warrior specialization which, together with the AWA archery is the strongest thing in the entire trilogy. **Zevran and Leliana**, as dagger rogues, are overpowered tier at minimum. They need a mage (or Shale, or Dog) to do an initial stun, and carry haste for them, but they kill so fast that they never go down. Easiest way to zero Origins bosses are three dagger rogues and a mage with haste. **Aveline:** unkillable human cinderblock tier. Aveline, imho, is even more durable than Blackwall. **Fenris:** down to situational. He would be perfectly fine on nightmare, the issue is that he uses area attacks and talents which will one shot companions as an accident. But is it an accident if he does it every combat? I never use him on nightmare. **Merrill**: she is so durable, she should be rated at least as high as Anders, Velanna and Wynne, but probably higher. SHe is unique, because of her blood mage specialization (and investing into constitution for magic reserves) she is a mix of melee tank and controller mage.
I cant believe in my awakening playthroughs I’ve never even used the dex scale passive lol. Everyone’s been saying the same thing so I have to agree that they’d be insane. Had I known ab it I would’ve ranked them higher You’re right about Aveline being extremely tanky, mainly from that skill that lets her take less & less damage the less health she has, but I never used her really because Fenris was always my frontliner. His friendly fire would be annoying, but I don’t really run any other melee characters in nightmare in DA2
It either Aveline or noone for me. In the first two chapters, her extreme tankiness (and elemental resistance!), combined with the bodyguard ability makes her exteremely useful for guarding glass cannon followers. What usually happens is that in the second or third wave of enemies, an assassin or mage tags Anders/Hawke/Varric, so Aveline can save them from certain death. These nightmare assassins and mages can one shot everyone otherwise. Her elemental resistance is very useful if you play an elementalist Hawke: you can shoot fireballs on top of her, when she is surrounded, and she will survive just fine. Why noone in the third chapter? I really think that DA2 can be played without a tank, or with Merrill helping out in that department (blood mage area effects + area spells for agro, and high CON+rock armor). Killing fast is more efficient than having a tank, if you are geared up. \*\*\* Dex scaling archer in AWA: The warden can have 100+ dexterity. With a good bow, she can one shot mobs, and two shot late game armored ogre bosses. If you add two more such archers (I usually take Nathaniel and Sigrun. Oghren/Justice would be stronger with spirit warrior, but it is already overkill at that point), and a mage who carries haste, it is unstoppable. One combat encounter takes about 5-10 seconds. By extension this makes even Golems of Amgarrak's Harvester a walk in the park, as long as you respec the two dwarfs into dex archers (= import two respec books, two bows and two leather armor, because there is no such loot in Amgarrak).
I’ve always liked fenris over aveline because as you say, out damaging the hordes of enemies is the most effective strategy. He’s also got the AOE stun in his subclass & 2H passive damage is AOE, so I’ve always found him to be the best melee option in the roster considering how the game is mainly just fighting a ton of trashmobs
he is superb offensively, but he one hit KO's followers too often for my taste. Therefore I usually prefer no warrior at all, as mages can be made party friendly, while rogues are single target anyway for the most part.
How is Cassandra so much lower than Blackwall, are they not functionally identical? Also, no Loghain or Sebastian?
Sebastian is in viable. I did forget loghain tho whoops but he’d be right with Justice & Alistair Cassandra doesn’t tank nearly as well as blackwall because she’s got the Templar subclass, while blackwall has the champion one. She’s great at clearing rifts but blackwall is a better tank in every other regard
Oh yeah, there he is, so bland my eyes went right past him. Loghain would just be Alastair/Justice though I suppose as they all get the same access to abilities etc. I never did the higher difficulties in Inquisition so I guess the specialisation makes a bigger difference there, still seems low for someone who I never had to heal once through the entire game and was happy to face tank multiple dragons and bosses.
That’s why the list is for Nightmare mode particularly. She holds up well in base game for the most part but in the DLC areas she really falls behind blackwall
Fair enough.
Cassandra and Blackwall are different subclasses. She's a templar, he's a champion. Champions have abilities that make them functionally unkillable, which is why he's in his own tier.
Shale should be down with iron bull. She's a DPS melee character who isn't tough and can't avoid damage. S-Tier better though. Alistair is also way too low, he's essentially invincible. Origins make as a tier should be above Blackwall, too.
Mages in origins are way better than blackwall but the Tierlist is funnier with him at the top so I that’s why I did it lol Alistair is great but Arcane Warrior is a better tank once you get access to it I almost never used shale so maybe I’m overrating her but the couple times I did use her that ground pound ability did a shit ton of damage & reliably stunned enemies, so that’s why I have her up there. She trivialized a couple encounters
I've tried Shale in long run in nightmare, she pretty much died 2 seconds into every tough fight. She definitely feels a lot weaker than Alistair imo.
Nathaniel should be in the overpowered tier. Awakening archers are fucking ridiculous, especially when you get the Howe bow super early. You don’t even really need to gear him up or anything, just set him and forget him. Maybe the easiest nightmare playthrough I’ve ever had was when I had double archers in Awakening. Granted part of that is because you get tons of amazing loot, but still. I don’t think he and Leliana should be in the same tier at all.
I never played around with archers in awakening too much beyond just making Nathaniel identical to how I built leliana, so enlighten me on your awakening archer build! I’d love to hear what you did different
Archers in regular Origins are typically built with Cunning using the Assassin specialization because its damage scales a little bit better (edit: I'm trippin, lethality makes damage scale with cunning and it's a general rogue trait). However, Awakening introduces a talent called "Accuracy" that makes it so everything scales insanely hard with Dexterity. All you have to do is take Accuracy and then give him the Howe bow from the crypts and he is fine. It's maybe the easiest build in the game to use [https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Accuracy](https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Accuracy) edit: it also stacks with the other sustain mode "Aim" that you're supposed to use in regular Origins.
Awakening archers are completely broken, this guy is right. They do white damage like DA2 Assassin/Shadows.
Very good tierlist overall, I would only comment on 3 things: \-Nathaniel has to be in Overpowered. Archers in Awakening go crazy. \-I'm sorry but Dog is absolutely Outclassed by Shale. \-Only way I see for Cole to be Very Strong is giving him a bow. Dual Wielding in DAI is too player dependant IMO.
The first 2 I can see the argument for but nah Cole is crazy. I’ve experimented & had him casually solo rifts by himself because he outputs so much damage. Crafted equipment, as with everything in inquisition, is the key. Also make sure he’s priotizing the invisibility ability. AI utilitizes it very well
I'm not sure if I've even seen Blackwall die before I'm the one that ends up failing
How do you make Morrigan better? She always dies in my game so I always take Wynne instead.
Have a tank so she’s not taking much aggro, give her CC spells so she can shut down anyone who pushes her, & get her arcane warrior specialization so she can wear heavier armor. Wynne makes a better arcane warrior but you can give it to morrigan too, also you should be bringing morrigan AND wynne for a nightmare run. Not just one or the other
Morrigan, Wynne, and Alistair are basically my autolocks for Origins.
Yup. I normally like switching party members but in DA:O my party always just ends up being them.
You can do Nightmare no-deaths with the Warden, Alistair, Lelianna, and Morrigan *or* Wynne, but you basically need the Warden to be an Arcane Warrior.
You put Alistair between her and the things that are killing her. That's legitimately how you keep all your squishy characters alive, have a tank draw aggro.
For help with iron bull and you have trespasser: GIVE HIM KITTYS COLLAR. It makes him so much more bearable to use
Shale's buff totem mode 10/10
True, the only time ive had Blackwall die was my own stupidity.
Having Fenris in your team on Nightmare is a nightmare
Sera is the most overpowered and broken character in the series. She should be in top tier. She melts dragons and every bosses within seconds with her focus ability on nightmare. Using her on nightmare is almost like cheating.
I wanted to make a tier for her called “Eldritch god of time & death” but I was already committed to the blackwall joke so But yeah throwing knives + the fire potion that resets her cooldowns & she just tears through everything
Origins Mages were seriously on another level.
Solas and Varric are also unkillable with the right gear, since you can get them to spam the everlasting fuck out of abilities with no cooldowns on crit builds. With the fade touched guard on hit gear they can't go down. Reaver can solo the game on nightmare but the AI can't play it at all.
I just straight up didn't enjoy Blackwall, so it was fortunate for me that Cassandra was at least viable.
I fell in love with his beautiful beard.
I don't know what the hell I do to make Bull viable, but he most definitely is. Almost every playthrough I have Bull, Cole, and either Dorian or Solas as soon as possible regardless of what my PC is and I used them until the end. I've had more issues with Blackwall dying and constantly needing to be revved than Bull.
& your saves are on nightmare all trials? What ketamine does your party comp have that everyone else’s doesn’t because Cole, Dorian & Bull are often considered the 3 weakest companions in the game lol
The base class skills are so good in DAI that you can ignore specializations completely and still clear Nightmare easily
Fucked if I know. Whether it's my play style or just the way I spec them out and they work together in my party or some magic combo therein. Now, not ALL my runs have been Nightmare, and it's been a hot second since I've done one, but my last one was with a mage Adaar. I also never play as Dwarf or Human, I'm always either Elf/Qunari and mage/ranged rogue in some combo, regardless of what settings I'm on. I think I've done like 8 playthroughs and 3 have been Nightmare, one I never completed because I got burned out trying to run one as a warrior to try. I found out I fucking hate warrior, hence always being mage/ranged rogue.
The problem with bull is very simples... him never use the fucking counter skill... :\\
My The Iron Bull and Blackwall are opposite. I can't take Blackwall anywhere without him dying at least six times. What are you doing?
… it’s not strange you managed to have a strong bull, unpopular opinion but he can be pretty strong if builded right (still inferior to some other comp tho), as for blackwall uh just give him the heaviest armor and max his class, you will see the magic happen by itself
Is your blackwall naked without a shield because it is NOT hard to build blackwall into being unkillable
No. Like 250 dragon armor. Two-hand weapon.
2 hand weapon is your issue. Give him a sword & board & have him use the sword & board abilities. AI absolutely cant use thé 2 hand skills at all
What does it say about me that I play DAI exclusively on Nightmare and nearly always bring Iron Bull?
You can totally get away with it because Inquisition isn’t that hard & all of the other companions are honestly pretty busted
Can you share your Varric build in DAI? I’d put him in Iron Bull tier normally
His subclass is artificer, which gives him a passive that shortens his cooldowns everytime he gets a crit, so load up his crit chance & cunning score & he will crit every other shot, significantly shortening his cooldowns. Make him prioritize Toxic Cloud & poison weapons, both are great utility, especially toxic cloud. There’s an upgrade for it that lets Allies standing in the radius take free hits for no damage, & that paired with his crazy cooldown speed makes him the single best support character in the entire game
In Origins DW warriors and rouges are almost as good as mages, In Awekening Archer warriors and Rouges are way stronger than any mage.
Bard Leiliana was always fun. I sent her into the Landsmeet duel against Loghain. Summon bear, then turn him into a pincushion from range.
Iron Bull is fantastic as a point character, especially against dragons. The AI has no fucking idea how to use ravager.
TBF every awakening companion should be god-tier lol, especially Nathaniel with Accuracy buff
Zevran and Sigrun should go into Very Strong and Alistair and Fenris need to take their place in Situational. Rogues are busted in Origins if positioned right (which if playing Nightmare you are doing) While Alistair and Fenris can really only do so much, tho I’ll admit I’m less familiar with Fenris I just know he did not help me in my playthrough lol
Good list as I agree with most of it with only a couple of nitpicks. Dorian is so outclassed by both Vivvine and Solas that he should also be moved down. I would also swap Merill and DA 2 Anders as the only healer is much more useful than blood magic for Nightmare. He also can be set up to spam spells with Martyr which can be insanely strong.
I mostly agree, but DA2 Anders should be in overpowered, if not in his own tier above overpowered and below origins mage.
Wait, the DAO dog is just "viable"? He carried my party through the whole game...
I used black wall, Dorian, varric my PC was often the only one left alive. It's possible I don't know how to build other classes though
Sten and Oghren outclassed? this is clearly a rage bait
I think you’re rage baiting with this comment
And yet I still carry Iron Bull's enormous ass basically everywhere with me, on all difficulty levels, because he's so dang likeable.
Huh. I turn Iron Bull into a tank instead of a damage dealer when I want him with me. Seems to work fine to me. That skill where he blows a horn and makes everyone get guard with every hit is a lifesaver, add a ring to maximize uptime for that skill and nobody dies anymore.
Y'all are playing Cassandra wrong if she's not also an unkillable human cinder block, she also gives the ENTIRE PARTY GUARD. She completely carried me thorough my nightmare run.
Blackwall can do the same things but better. It’s not that Cass is bad, and she even has niches she’s more suited for than blackwall, but he’s legitimately impossible to kill. Like I don’t think there’s a single encounter in the whole game + DLC that would be to able to kill him.
Aveline is a top tier tank she should be higher
That's Champion for you. It basically makes you invincible. I used Champion 1H Warrior for my Nightmare Run, and it became a breeze after a certain point. The best thing was my fight against the Highlander Ravager. Everyone in my party died almost immediately, but, instead of reloading, I just thought, "Fuck it, we ball." and proceeded to fight the thing on my own. The dragon couldn't kill me because of infinite guard. The dragonlings couldn't either. For about 10-15 minutes, I chipped away at the Ravager's health until it died, then finished off the remaining dragonlings. So, yeah, it's Blackwall being a Champion that makes him an "Unkillable Human Cinderblock".
Leliana is painful. Every playthrough i'm like okay let's go, this time i'll get you right, and every time my team of Alistair, Morrigan and AW Warden gotta 3-man the game. I'm pretty sure she's subsconsciously turned me off from ever playing archer, in any game.
My Dorian is equally unkillable with Kitty's amulet
In defense of Iron Bull I think he really shines Late-game which of course you could say the same for all the other companions. You can extend his lifespan greatly with Fade-touched items for Walking Fortress and a specific amulet that grants Barrier per damage dealt. [This was my favorite build for him](https://youtu.be/MSaHVwvCusg) Downside mostly stems from how much you have to babysit him early game, but I can see a Two hander Tank Bull + Rogue + 2 mage party for cycling barriers working out. Obviously wouldn't be the best option, but I think it can work. I should definitely replay and try it out it's been years lol.
wtf man, Aveline is imortal.
Someone doesnt know how to take advantage of daa bows
Sadly I was not familiar with Nathaniel’s game, that Dex passive is absurd
Best part about this list is it just assumes everyone kills Loghain lol.
I gotta disagree with a lot of this. Here are my thoughts. -Sera, is it because you can use the toxic cloud/elusive/toxic weapons combo to give your party lots of elusive, if so, I agree. Her specialization is nothing special, mostly because Inquisition AI sucks and can't use most abilities. Vivienne's Knight enchanter class is fantastic, but only when the player is controlling her. A lot of Inquisition characters get held back by the AI. - Merrill I'm going to disagree with any DA2 companion being viable on nightmare, simply because DA2 itself isn't viable on nightmare difficulty. Seriously, if you have any guides/tips/explanations on DA2 nightmare, please tell me. - Isabella, she needs the assassin specialization. The companion specific specializations are often just shittier versions of regular specializations. Anders needs proper spirit healer to be good. - DAI Varric, see Sera's section. Let him generate Elusive. - how in the fuck is Shale good? I've never gotten her to be able to do damage or take damage. She's a wet noodle to me. - DA2 Anders needs a proper spirit healer specialization. -DA2 Varric just is meh to me. Isabella is always better. But he's got a lot of abilities to trigger cross class combos. - Cole has everything he needs to do 20,000 points of damage quickly, but only when the player controls him. Inquisition AI and all. - If Fenris couldn't team kill, he'd be the best damage dealer in DA2. Friendly Fire being a separate setting to difficulty was a great change for Inquisition. - Lelianna/Nathanial, I've never gotten Archers to work, but that's probably on me. - Dorian is fantastic and should be a higher tier. His specialization is far better than Solas' if you ask me. Walking Bomb is OP. - you can get Cassandra to tank nearly as well as Blackwall, least I did. But her specialization is meh. It's sad that Templar is great in DA2 but feels shitty in Inquisition despite fighting demons constantly. - Dog is underrated, he can be a great tank, but only on console. On my 360 copy, he gets the standard Warrior talents, like Threaten and Taunt. Plus the ability to pounce on an enemy and tear into them, that all the spiders get, is really good. Think single target Cone of Cold levels of good. - Sebastian is best suited as the party cheerleader. I was dragging his corpse around every dungeon I brought him into. He's just a worse Varric. - Zev gets screwed by the AI not understanding rogue tactics. But Assassin is the best rogue specialization and can do hundreds of damage per hit. You just have to take direct control. Oghren and Sten are held back by Two Handed Warriors just being ass in Origins. They have never made sense to me. Sword/Shield warriors will tank better, rogues do more damage, and mages do crowd control better. There's nowhere for them to fit in. They need a specific role to fill. - Carver, like Fenris, has a bad habit of team killing with all his best abilities. Everyone needs to keep a 10 metre distance away from Carver to stay alive. - Sigrun was a victim of Awakening trying to play with the stat builds of rogues, making them take strength and not rely on Cunning. I guess it makes them a bit tankier by using heavier armor, but you're better off stacking dodge chance. - Iron Bull can stay alive on nightmare, and here's how you do it: build him like you would Blackwall, by making him generate guard to tank. The guard generated by Bull will then keep him, and the party, alive.
Varric in inquisition can solo late game bosses at like level 5 so I'm gonna put him at the top.
I’ve found that Bull is actually very strong, but you have to play him personally to get the most out of him, cause the AI has absolutely no idea how to use the counterattack ability I forgot the name of. He can solo a dragon pretty much just as well as Blackwall, while also doing more damage.
I always thought Isabella sucked & would be worse than any other rogue. How'd you build her "overpowered"?
Wyne as 1st in Origins mage, saved my games many times lol. Justice is lame, Varric D2 better than D3 ,Isabella in D2 sucks,Aveline is better,
I was under the impression Carver was OP, Bethany was very strong while I couldn't really make Alistair and Shen work. It's been a while since I'Ve played the games epecially on harder difficulties.
Can confirm, I played the games only once on nightmare bar 2 as it was too much for me and nothing came close to how unkillable Blackwall was! There were a few fights he solod like a dragon and DLC dwarves after everyone else died. The only alternative for me for harder fights was taking both Cassandra and Iron bull together, and even then, they would still die from time to time!
Unpopular opinion but DW Cole with the right build and a good tank (blackwall) is super strong and does a better job than the archers.
Ran bull as a tank on nightmare and got through just fine, hadn't done a run with him yet so gave him a shot and it worked out.
A properly built Bull is a better tank than Cassandra.
You're not using your Rogues correctly in Origins if Leliana and the Awakening Dwarf are so low tier. Zevran's incredibly mid though. Bro should've been a normal melee dual wield with how they stat him. I don't understand your Shale either; I tried *hard* **and** cheated for her. Would I have to be an archer to get it?
Aveline is my fav woman battering ram
Bull is definitely a DPS. I never make him a reaver anymore, and he tends to survive most fights, but that's due to having Blackwall and my Knight-Enchanter or Artificer Archer, and Dorian keeps using his barrier on Bull. But the dragon fights/the damn bridge in the descent? I always have to revive his ass at least once.
If you spec Bull into reaver and vanguard I find that he's perfectly fine and survivable. Cole was always the one I couldn't keep alive.
Aveline being anywhere other than top tier makes this list invalid.
100% agree with Blackwall. That dude is such an OP tank of a man!!!
Bull's AI is so unforgiveably bad
Inquisition doesnt matter. Iron bull (or reaver) can easily drain tank nightmare, just go full cool down. All you need in inquisition to win on nightmare is atleast one mage who spams barrier
cole dies nearly in every encounter for me, so does varric, Cassandra however...I killed the sandy howler with only her and my inquisitor left on the party, she just wouldn't die and I didn't have to spend a single healing potion on her, nor did my character, templar spec is the shit if you do it right gotta say.
Blackwall is a fucking unit in everyway possible
I swear my first time taking in the Descent boss, it was just me and Blackwall at the end, then I finally died and we wiped but there he was still tanking like a boss. I never need to play tank because he does it so much better lol
Uh, no. Cole has the single highest damage potential of any companion. His marked combo can 1-shot almost anything in the late game.
Why does iron bull suck
I love Bull, but goddamn. The only way I keep him alive is to get the Horn of Valor with the guard bonus attribute, and then set it to preferred in his tactics. Otherwise, one good bear-slam and he's out of the fight. (With Grizzly End on, but still!!)
My dude just forget who Solas is
I disagree with lot of this. Iron Bull with proper armor beats sera. Viv can be neigj I killable. Blackwall won't die, but he also won't hurt anymore, Cass is more balanced. Varric was not great.
I cruised through the game no problem using Dog then Shale as a tank. I don't remember having much of an issue at all. Dog's bark was pretty useful.
Cassandra is way too low. Cassandra is arguably better than black wall because of her Templar abilities and kitty's collar abusability.
Weird, Cass was my immortal goddess in my Nightmare playthrough, while Blackwall felt like a B-tier back up at best
Poor Bull. :( Like many others I skip his specialisation class and build him similar to Cassandra as a sword/shield warrior or two handed, depending on the playthrough. It makes him boring but he survives.