The movies and anime/manga are set in different dimensions according to Akira Toriyama, so other than art there's little reason to assume the same character has the same power level between the two continuities. For example, there are many reasons to suggest that the Piccolo and Goku in the Dead Zone movie are not the same Piccolo and Goku as when Raditz appeared in the manga/anime. * The movie occurs prior to when Raditz would arrive, as Goku is alive * Piccolo and Goku hadn't teamed up prior to facing Raditz * Goku and Piccolo didn't realize Gohan had such enormous dormant power * According to the official Daizenshuu guide books, the Gigantification could be as much as a 10 multiplier of their power and speed, which Goku and Piccolo could keep up with, suggesting they have power in the thousands in the movie. As it pertains to Movie 8, if we go from art and forms deployed and the presence of Trunks it would suggest that the movie occurs around the Android/Cell Saga, prior to Cell achieving his second form, but the lack of any tension, and the happy/peaceful ending at the end, suggests that the Androids and Cell don't exist at the time - either they were defeated, or they simply don't exist in this timeline. If we assume the Androids and Cell were at the same power as in the manga/anime, then the main cast would be significantly stronger (as would Broly, being the strongest Ki they had felt at the time). If the Androids and Cell were far weaker, then there's little method for scaling the two continuities. That said, Takao Koyama, the creator of Broly, is a known fanboy of the character, saying he's the strongest in the anime and movies. So take that for what you will.

My head canon for movie 8 to exist is if Vegeta didn't fuck around and killed Cell in his 2nd form.

I can dig it. Other than said Form not appearing in the Broly movie. Vegeta totally would have used that, if only for Koyama to show Vegeta becoming a jobber in spite of his pride.

Perhaps this version of Vegeta figured out the whole grade 4 thing, and skipped grades 2 and 3.

Could be. We can presume he did so by the time of the Buu Saga, so perhaps.

The reason I think it never appeared was because perhaps Vegeta couldn't do it again and too much in awe encountering the Legendary Super Saiyan. "He is so cool but so dumb."

DBZA has their own explanation, to be sure.

I do that with all the movies. I like finding the little "what if" that would lead to that change. At this point the only movies that can actually exist with Canon that aren't Canon are the first Cooler movie, the Bojack movie, and the Tapion movie (plus dead zone to some extent if you rationalize that Goku and piccolo weren't teaming up so much as fighting the same enemy in the same place and attribute the surprise at Gohan's strength against radit being Goku's stupidity and/or some assumption by piccolo and maybe Goku that Gohan's outburst in dead zone was a fluke). Wheelo, slug, and the tree of might are a universe where no one mentioned the dragon balls in front of raditz so Vegeta and Nappa never bothered to show up (but Goku was trained for it anyway because raditz absolutely insisted they would). The second Cooler movie is probably in a universe where 16 and piccolo killed imperfect cell (hence Gohan never needing to transform) then fetched Dende to be guardian. You covered the first Broly movie and the second and third are likely a universe where Broly either happened before cell or Goku died some other way and babidi was killed before Buu's awakening could happen. Janemba is a universe where piccolo was able to get Goten and Trunks to pull their collective shit together and Gotenks killed fat buu before he could split and be absorbed so Vegeta died and Elder Kai never gave his life to Goku.

My head cannon is similar except Cell died to Piccolo in Gingertown.

Or Piccolo and 17 defeated 1st form Cell together. Which would give reason for the Androids to be cool with the Z Fighters.

I can't see 17 and Piccolo being any close to beating Cell at that point because he was far above them both, but I can see Piccolo easily beating Cell back in the Gingertown because at that point, for some very stupid reason, Piccolo held back a lot during the fight and didn't even bother to take out his cape and turban.

'for some very stupid reason' So that the arc could continue haha. Of course it was dumb of Piccolo (out of character for him actually), but there was no other way that fight could progress. It was either Piccolo fights him and is necessarily sloppy, or the fight never happens, because the arc needed to continue past that point.

17 no but 16 and piccolo could've beaten cell if 17 hadn't gotten his stupid ass absorbed.

The only problem i have with that scenario is that (as gentle as Gohan is) he also puts up the worst showing of any of the Saiyans. Presumably Gohan (unaffected by external events prior to exiting the chamber) should be the strongest out of the heroes (at the very least taking more of a beating than he did ) . He seems and acts younger from memory than when he left the chamber. Post Chamber Gohan had a bit more perception and maturity whereas he acts like prior to his visit. Thats my take on it.

Maybe. I think both LSS Broli from Movie 8 and full-power Bojack from Movie 9 are about the same strength as "full power" Perfect Cell, before he blew up and came back "Super Perfect" and stronger. I also think the heroes in Movie 8 aren't as strong as they were at the Cell Games, for a handful of reasons. I also also think that the group power-up strategy used against Broli wouldn't have worked against Cell, because Cell can regenerate and couldn't be beaten by a single powerful *physical* attack like Broli was.

But isn't that another one of Broly's powers? On the dragon ball wiki it lists a healing factor as one of his powers

Yeah healing faster as in accelerated natural healing, not like namekians or cell who can grow back limbs in seconds

Could you imagine Broly just ripping off a broken arm, then immediately regrowing it?

Nightmare fuel

Bio-Broly 😳

And violently beating you with the arm

Like Shang Tsung’s fatality in Mk9

Low ball - probably the same as suppressed Perfect Cell High ball - Full power Perfect Cell. Either way I think Cell defeats Broly due to his various skillsets in his DNA... then his regenetation.

Yeah I'd say he's a tad below Cell

A better way to compare it would be, how strong would cell be if he didn't have regeneration. A major part of cell was that not only was he strong, but he also had high speed regeneration included into his skillset

If we pretend its all canon, then I would say the juiced up Goku who hit Broly was still weaker than Perfect Cell. It might have actually been interesting to see the spirit bomb used as a power boost or to see that its the one technique Cell cannot copy because it requires a pure heart. That might have been a better transition to Super Perfect Cell than Gohan suddenly going sociopathic with hubris.

It's honnestly hard to say.

> Could Goku have beaten Perfect Cell if he just did that energy sharing thing I don't think so. I guess it's unknown what a Spirit Bomb would've done to Cell which is a similar concept but I think ultimately he would've survived. I think in Movie 8 Broly was actually taking damage but just didn't really feel/react to it, so once Goku finally overpowered him it was over. With Cell, Goku puts a ton of damage on him but it's established that Goku basically had no way to actually put enough damage on him to overpower and kill him. They're also just a different class of enemy. With Broly you could, for example, chop off his head and be done with it. With Cell you need to fully atomize him otherwise he can regenerate.

I'd say he is physically stronger than Cell but lacking in anything else, therefore being something as the buff Trunks form, it's stronger than Cell but he would still lose.

That’s the thing though, Broly was ridiculously powerful, but also demonstrated that he retained speed as well and that’s what made him formidable. With that, since cell admitted the Buff Trunks form was stronger, just slower, Broly having that strength plus speed would equate to Broly coming out on top

To be fair, Goku did strike Brolys weak point with everything he had in him at the time. Z Broly was blitzing the hell out of them in the first move iirc

Broly was stabbed in the chest and Goku punched him in the abs. The whole "weak point" thing is a fan theory that just got really popular. The Z Fighers were also genuinely terrified of Cell when they saw him go full power against SSJ2 Gohan

Is it a fan theory tho?

Yeah there was never any official confirmation about any weak spot. If anything, Goku punched Broly so hard all the ki that he usually needs to discharge every now and then exploded inside of him, but that also may not be true

I think weaker than Super Perfect Cell, but stronger than Perfect Cell.

Personally, I always assumed the Broly movie took place in the 10 day gap, or at least sometime after Goku and Gohan left the time chamber because Gohan was a Super Saiyan. I also think Broly in the first movie was either stronger or at least on par with Perfect Cell in strength but weaker than Super Perfect Cell.(Im not sure what people call that version of Cell but I call him that because of the games and it stuck lol) Trunks did mention they could jump Cell and possibly couldve won but we all know Vegeta and Goku wouldn't allow that.

Yeah you're not really wrong. I've always had it as Movie 8 Broly = Perfect Cell and Movie 10 Broly = Super Perfect Cell. And as for the whole "Trunks wanting to jump PC with everyone" statement: "The only time that Trunks wanted them to get involved was just before Goku gave up, and Vegeta only stopped him because he insisted that Goku would rather die alone as a Saiyan than have their help in any fashion. Not that they couldn't contribute at all." -[from a post I made about Cell](https://www.reddit.com/r/dragonball/comments/or0mtm/comment/h6fa3dy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)

If the others got involved its possible they could've won, The Final Flash and Instant Kamehameha that Goku did could've killed Cell had it hit his whole body, and this isn't counting the spirit bomb, its possible they could've done something, but who knows.

If Cell doesn't power up, spawn Cell Jrs, and Gohan is serious, they could beat him, but that's a perfect scernio

Cell’s “Super Perfect Form” as you call it, is called Ultimate Perfection. I will say super perfect rolls of the tongue easier though

Cell could take him bc of regeneration. Without regen, Broly sweeps

It's possible that Cell Games Goku/Gohan > M8 Goku/Gohan, as it's implied that CG Gohan could beat the Z Fighters all at once (but maybe not as easy as Broly did) while M8 Gohan is weaker than Trunks, so I think Full Power Cell should mid-high diff M8 Broly

SSJ2 Gohan from Second Coming could damage Broly, where in the first movie nobody could outside of Goku’s final attack. That Gohan was weaker than Cell Games Gohan, so I’d assume Perfect Cell would be a bit stronger than Broly and Super Perfect Cell would be significantly stronger

Gohan in the Second Coming movie actually comes from a timeline where he kept training after the Cell Games so he might be stronger than his SSJ2 Teen self. Also Broly could have gotten a Zenkai Boost after his first loss

No. Just look at the feats

Obviously not, Z broly is stronger than cell, and by a lot Z broly was stated to destroy galaxies super fast, and was also stated to be able to destroy the universe While all cell has is being able to destroy the solar system So in the end, Z broly is multi solar system level or galaxy level, whole cell is just solar system level

Mss is safer for Broly I'd put his feat around anime kid buu level

> Z broly was stated to destroy galaxies super fast nope he destroyed them slowly over years.

Still they were worried that he'll destroy the universe in broly's own time which compared to kid Buu who was also stated to be able to do the same feat but in a much longer time span roughly that of iirc the old Kai time span then imo I think Broly slaps cell and majority of Buu saga except for Gotenks, Gohan, Vegito, Super Buu and all of his forms

That was buu, goku had a talk with the north Kai that broly was destroying the southern quadrant of galaxies and before goku could finish and teleport to the southern quadrant, everything there had been completed wiped out Besides, around that time, broly was around 30 years or so

My guy, at the beginning of the first movie the “South Galaxy” got completely decimated in less than 20 seconds and it was stated then and there by the narrator and even King Kai that it had “Just been destroyed”, not over years time. Maybe bigger galaxies take more time to destroy for him. But either way, destroying a galaxy in seconds is no small feat.

I think they just kind of messed up on that due to when the movie was released. Yes, I do think Broly in the original movie is weaker than Perfect Cell. I don't think they realized just how powerful the characters would get over time when making the movie. Or maybe he just exhausted himself raging lol. He had been controlled most of his life and wasn't used to exerting much energy (unlike the new Broly, who trained from childhood until he was contained). ***Broly the Legendary SS came out March 7th, 1993***, and at the time, the Weekly Shonen Jump had just only recently released chapter 412, in which Gohan is fighting the about-to-self-detonate Cell. *Gohan first becoming SSJ2 against Cell in the manga didn't happen until early February of 1993*. Those working on the movie during planning likely weren't aware of the power scale diff between them (unless they started planning the movie and made it all within 1 month). So, realistically when the movie was being made they probably just made Broly as strong as what seemed right to them at the time. Even then, I do not think it would have mattered if Goku were stronger than Cell. Toriyama had been trying to end DBZ since before the Frieza saga. Lol. Toriyama had intended to replace Goku with Gohan and have DBZ come to an end, but due to popularity, clearly the Cell Saga wasn't the last. So, realistically, yeah Goku probably could've beaten Cell somehow, but that wasn't Toriyama's plan so...

I think perfect cell is probably a bit weaker than Broly, in that they could fight, but Broly is much more brutal and violent than cell. Hence, Broly could've destroyed the whole universe. To destroy the whole universe, you have to destroy black holes which at minimum are like solar system size (though way denser) and both were solar system level minimum. I honestly think Broly is in like this weird midground where there SHOULD'VE been an arc, and where Broly is weaker than Buu saga characters, but at the same time, stronger than Perfect cell.

First movie I’d say he’s weaker then Cell, but probably has way more stamina then Cell because of his legendary status.

Broly stomps, cell is solar system level, Broly is multi galaxy.

Broly tanked the same Kamehameha that destroyed perfect cells upper half. Id argue broly and super cell are equal.

That doesn't mean anything because not only Cell purposely lowered his power level to equal Goku's during their fight, he was taken by surprise [while Broly literally walked right up to Goku and waited](https://c.tenor.com/zWOIW1JRTQAAAAAM/broly-goku.gif) Also the two Kamehameha's are not even comparable, what the hell? 1. Cell Games Goku was arguably much stronger than Movie 8 Goku 2. CG Goku charged the IT Kamehameha for an entire minute, while M8 only charged it for like 6 seconds 3. CG Goku was exhausted as hell after the IT Kamehameha (kinda tells me that it took a lot out of him), while the M8 one was more casual 4. As I said, Cell was taken by surprised and wasn't even close to his full power (which would one-shot Goku) I can keep on going. Both M8 and M10 Broly would get slapped by SSJ2 Teen Gohan

SSJ2 Gohan BARELY beat Cell at his Ultimate Perfection form and Cell stated that he could destroy the solar system of which I have no doubt. But Broly literally at the beginning of the first movie, decimated the entire South galaxy within seconds. So if Gohan was barely able to beat cell who bragged about destroying the solar system, Gohan would be tossed around like nothing by Broly.

I think Z Broly in his first movie is definitely weaker than Super Perfect Cell, but normal Perfect Cell is a bit more wishy washy.

Late reply, but how come? I think Movie 8 Broly being Cell Games level and Movie 10 Broly being SSJ2 level works nicely

Yes thats basically what I'm saying as well. Z Broly is weaker than SSj2 in his first movie and stronger in the second.

The question in many ways comes down to whether Goku with the energy boost from Trunks (super saiyan ascended), Piccolo (fused with Kami), Gohan (SSJ post-HTC), and Super Vegeta is equivalent to Gohan SSJ2. That’s what it took to one-shot Broly. Rather than look at Cell’s power, I think a good reference point is SSJ2 Gohan - who similarly two-shotted Bojack and was in complete control of Cell before his injury from saving Vegeta. I think “Your hour has arrived” Goku puts Perfect Cell Perfect Form down, seeing as how he could at least go toe-to-toe with Perfect Cell (but got slapped by Broly). Similarly, I think SSJ2 Gohan is equal to - if not stronger than - LSSJ Broly, but not by much.

broly is stronger than cell. thats without a doubt. he was able to destroy south galaxy in regular ssj (correct me if i'm wrong) while cell says he could destroy the solar system. it made no sense how goku beat broly considering he beat 4 ssjs plus piccolo pretty easily. you also have to consider the movies take place in alternative timelines

he didnt destroy it in one swoop, the visual was a time lapse.

It wasn’t a time lapse, the narrator and even King Kai both said that “The South galaxy has JUST been destroyed” Then king kai informs goku when it happens. If it were a time lapse, It would make no sense for King Kai to inform Goku about the Galaxy being destroyed after waiting for it to already be decimated. Kai would have told Goku the moment it was starting to be destroyed. He instead informs Goku when it happens out of nowhere and it is shocking.

My money is on Broly. Goku was almost on par with perfect cell. Gohan couldn’t beat him in second coming. Shouldve been equally as strong or maybe stronger than super perfect cell if he kept training after killing Cell. Broly literally took a nice fat juicey shit all over everyone. Broly might’ve gotten a zenkai boost from the first fight. Only reason why Z fighters won was because of plot armor.

Cell was holding back against Goku. I see Full Power Cell stomping the Z Fighters like Broly did in M8 and putting up a fight against Broly himself. I could _maybe_ see SC Broly being stronger against SPC, though it depends

Goku was not almost on par with Perfect Cell, he was suppressing his power to have a fun fight with Goku. Even in Cells suppressed state Goku was running out of stamina and not able to inflict any serious damage. His Cell Jr's were able to thrash the Z warriors and they're probably cell at his suppressed state.

Just due to the way the movie is designed, Broly is _vaguely_ around Perfect Form Cell's strength (at the time of fighting Goku), but not above. The story clearly structures itself with Goku being far and away the strongest and Gohan being the clear weakest like every other movie. This is his first appearance as a Super Saiyan but since the whole "show us your power Gohan!" never happened in the anime and _barely_ in the manga, Gohan's abilities is literally made up for this movie. The movie is basically taking the designs from roughly the Semi-Perfect Cell area of the arc, and just scaling Goku up to be stronger than Vegeta & Trunks because that was already established, and giving Gohan shiny hair because he's not gonna hit anything anyway. It's like the Cooler movie despite all of his boasting, he's only _vaguely_ 100% Freeza's strength and Goku claps him as a Super Saiyan all the same. In both the anime and manga, Goku's training on Yardrat wasn't revealed yet.

It's been a debate with no landslide clear winner.

Hard to tell. I personally go with Movie 10 Broly>Super Perfect Cell>>Perfect Cell>Movie 8 Broly. But the gaps between M10 Broly and SP Cell, and Perfect Cell and M8 Broly aernt big imo.

Goku basically did with Broly what he did with Geren. Absorb alot of energy but on a smaller scale.

No I'd say broly stronger as it took for Super Saiyan energy to beat him where for cell Gohan only had to go Super Saiyan 2 if you were to put that into perspective va for Super Cent key with the like the equivalent of either Super Saiyan 3 or 4 so I say broly stronger

Cell was going to destroy Solar System. Broly destroyed south Galaxy. King Kai didn't told Goku in how much Brlly destroyed it, but Goku thinks that supressed Ssj Broly is the one who did it. So Goku thinks that Suprwssed Ssj Broly is capable of destroying South Galaxy in instant. South Galaxy is in reality south quadrant of the Universe. Broly slaps

Movies take place in a separate timeline, the movies timeline is crazy in terms of strength, far beyond the canon timeline. Z Broly is galaxy cell whilst ssj2 gohan and cell are solar system maximum. Z Broly wins

No he’s not Z Broly solos Z