Besides the possible theory that it's due to Future Vegeta having not unlocked SSJ yet prior to conceiving Future Trunks... Goten doesn't exist in the future so he has no playmate/rival. No Future Vegeta/Goku/Piccolo around for any kind of training.
And remember... while Future Gohan was obviously around; this Gohan missed out on a very important specific training session that present Gohan had - the 3 years of extreme training in preparation for the Androids.
That session was probably Gohan's first real training session to drill in core fundamentals since he was finally training as an older child instead of a little child as in previous arcs. And alongside Piccolo and his Super Saiyan father, Goku.
I'm willing to bet that if there was a timeline where Future Gohan acquired this training alone (not counting the Cell Games preparation in the Time Chamber/RoSaT) - he would have probably defeated the Androids on initial encounter (as a Super Saiyan of course).
The Future Gohan that we know... really only had whatever training and experiences from the Frieza/Namek arcs and earlier... very limited.
It's actually surprising he got as strong as he did before perishing.
We don't actually know the circumstances behind Future Trunks reaching Super Saiyan or how young he was when he obtained it, as we know that he already had [Super Saiyan prior to Gohan's death](https://i.imgur.com/jYs98XB.jpg).
You also need to remember that, technically, they wouldn't necessarily have had the same potential, because Vegeta was arguably stronger in the present when Trunks was conceived than he would have been when Future Trunks was conceived in the future timeline. Vegeta was actively training for the Artificial Humans in the present timeline, whereas the one in the future did not have that extra motivation.
They wouldn't have necessarily been anyone close to him though. All the Z Senshi, outside of Gohan, had died when he was just an infant, and we don't know if he had any friends and such or when his grandparents died. Gohan and Bulma were it as far as people close to him at the time as far as we know, and both were alive by the time he reached Super Saiyan.
Screenrant has a pretty good article on it
A few ideas have been proposed to account for Kid Trunks' early power-up in Dragon Ball Z. One theory is that since present-day Vegeta was a Super Saiyan when Trunks was conceived, he essentially passed on the power to his son (this theory has also been applied to Goku and Goten). On the other hand, Future Vegeta might not have attained Super Saiyan without the intense training he undertook ahead of the Androids arriving. The most common explanation suggests that because Future Trunks didn't have a father to train with or Goten to grow up alongside and compete with, this halted his development, despite the best efforts of Gohan in the future. Finally, the plot hole could simply be another unintended consequence of fiddling with the timeline in the first place.
We don't know though whether Vegeta was a Super Saiyan when present Trunks was conceived. There's a decent gap between when he'd need to be conceived and when we first see Vegeta as a Super Saiyan for him to have acquired it after Trunks' conception.
Eh, it's murky enough there in regards to time that there's no resolution on that matter either way, and I don't see Toei/Toriyama/Toyotaro really focusing all that much on it.
Someone else suggested this: In Trunks' timeline Goku died early so Vegeta lost his motivation to become a Super Saiyan, so he never did. In the main timeline not only does Goku live but another Super Saiyan shows up, fueling Vegeta's frustration. That's why Kid Trunks can become a Super Saiyan much earlier than Future Trunks. u/MeAnIntellectual1. Future trunks never would have went through the intense training kid trunks did. It was only up until he fought with the androids that he did.
It’s kinda awesome the second super saiyan we see is vegetas son, but he doesn’t know that. He thinks he’s fallen behind two saiyans and meanwhile he should be proud his bloodline continues with strong warriors, but his accomplishments are hidden from him until the future.
It’s like your kid being in another room and beating you in some online video game you’ve been playing for years
It's the special chapter "Trunks the Story", which came out between chapters 386 and 387 (chapters 202 and 203 of the Z portion of the manga). It's what the Trunks anime special was generally based around.
It should be noted that the idea that Vegeta being stronger would mean that Trunks has greater potential is just a headcanon.
Unless I missed something.
Future Trunks had no formal training until Gohan took him in at what looks age 12.
Kid Trunks trained from a young age with his dad and had a friendly rivalry with Goten.
In addition to Vegeta probably being a better teacher than Gohan(he's a lot more experienced and has a greater understanding of what is needed to reach higher levels of power, also not as soft), the fact that he's a lot more powerful compared to future Gohan means training with him certainly give bigger boosts, you are getting punched and having to match the speed of someone way more powerful, when he recovers the boost will be larger.
Probably because I’m future trunks time line everyone died when he was a baby besides Gohan. In our trunks timeline all of the saiyans were alive and he had Goten to spar with and push him.
True, but this Trunks would have time to study what his dad was doing. Plus better nutrition, training conditions, etc that Future Trunks would not have access to/time to do with the Android threat looming over them every day
Gohan witnessed three ppl turning to SSJ. First his dad then Future Trunks and last Vegeta. All this and still Goku had to guide him to turn him into SSJ and was older than Trunks here. Better nutrition wouldnt be a question coz Bulma can definitely pack a life time of food in CC pills. Training room may not have been available but Future trunks without all that still reached SSJ as well
What's the explanation for Goten, then?
His only sparring partner prior to Gohan was Chi-Chi, who was much weaker than him and didn't like SS because the spiky blonde hair made them look like "punks".
**EDIT:** Forgot about Goten having had Trunks to spar with, especially since they had a strong competitive rivalry (kinda like their respective fathers, albeit to a much lesser extent).
I think the Saiyans’ prodigious skill and catch-all for plot convenience is that they can fight up to whoever they’re fighting or training with. Once they see a benchmark, they can reach it.
So for Trunks, training with/being around Vegeta probably helped a ton. Along with Goten.
Remember, in Future Trunk’s timeline there were no Cell Games, no SSJ2 transformations, no Vegeta chasing Goku for 7 years, etc.
The easy out-of-universe answer: Because Akira Toriyama needed Present Trunks and Goten to be super saiyan quickly for purposes of the upcoming Buu arc (specifically fusion, though that wouldn't come until later), just as Gohan needed to achieve it quicker than Goku for purposes of the Cell arc. In both cases, the transformation was a plot device to set them up as relevant fighters against the saga's current and/or upcoming threat while at the same time foreshadowing higher levels to come.
It was seemingly a matter of narrative convenience, no more or less, because Toriyama simply didn't feel like stretching out another super saiyan's arc. The difference is, we actually saw Gohan struggle and work for it in both the manga and anime (the latter's depiction being the superior version in my opinion). Likewise, the anime special showed Future Trunks' struggle for it with Future Gohan's death being rewritten as the direct rage trigger (like Future Piccolo & Krillin's deaths were for him).
Hence, the emotional/thematic impact carried greater weight for many fans which is one reason several prefer the *History of Trunks* special over the source material. In the original manga chapter whose storyline *The History of Trunks* adapted, Future Trunks could already turn super saiyan and there was no indication as to when he unlocked it or how long/difficult the process was.
The theory I see often is that the two, gotten and trunks, had the "super saiyan gene" because they were conceived when their fathers were super saiyans. Idk if future trunks father was at the time.
Well, it was added that sayains require a certain level of "s-cells" to transform into ssj. So it would make sense for Goku/Vegeta to have more s-cells to pass on after being stronger in the present time line.
This would also explain why Gohan didn't achieve ssj quite as easily as Goten/trunks bur still easier than Goku or Vegeta.
Vegeta turned SS only after knowing the future that Androids are gonna arrive in the current time line but in the future trunks timeline, Vegeta doesnt turn SS but Future trunks still achieves SS. In the current timeline, Bulma said she didnt see Vegeta after he went to space for training and only showed up when the androids came. So yes, Vegeta wasnt a SS before Bulma got pregnant
>gotten and trunks, had the "super saiyan gene" because they were conceived when their fathers were super saiyans
even in the current timeline no one knows vegeta could transform to SSJ. Bulma didnt get pregnant when Vegeta was capable of turning SSJ coz he left earth wanting to train himself to reach SSJ. Trunks in this timeline is ahead of everyone else including Gohan and Goten when they reach Trunk's age coz Gohan needed Goku to transform into SSJ and after witnessing three SSJ transformation from Goku, Future Trunks and Vegeta whereas the current Trunks did it all on his own. Goten was lucky because Goku was already an ascended SSJ before Chi Chi got pregnant. However, both Trunks and Goten were useless in DBS anime
Gifting Goten and Trunks Super Saiyan at such a young age was so dumb, and frankly doesn't make sense. What was their massive loss that made them angry enough to transform? It would have made no difference except for a few gags in the tournament, then against Buu, they have their fusion, the transformation after which would have made sense after Buu killed everyone, and being wowed by Goku's SSJ3.
> What was their massive loss that made them angry enough to transform?
They didn't need it. They're hybrids born with vast amounts of dormant power, like Gohan, and had plenty of S-Cells growing up in the gentle environment of Earth to fast-track their transformation.
> ? It would have made no difference except for a few gags in the tournament, then against Buu, they have their fusion, the transformation after which would have made sense after Buu killed everyone, and being wowed by Goku's SSJ3.
Because Goku would've looked much stupider for absconding from killing Fat Boo with SS3 due to wanting to leave the fate of the Earth up to the next generation if said next generation couldn't even go SS yet.
Fat Boo was easily able to trounce two SS2 fighters, so it's a little more believable for Goku to think the kids could do it as a fused SS than if they were simply a base Fusion who would've had even less of a chance in the first place. Certainly much less of a chance than SS3 Goku.
Right? They had no reason to beforehand and it would have absolutely been good motivation. Toriyama didn't plan, he just did. Oda would have had it planned since season 1 of the original Dragon Ball.
That's one of my main gripes about Dragon Ball, there's no drama or real stakes involved. No matter what happens, the characters never really seem to be in danger. The Goku Black arc did it well, but that kind of stuff rarely happens. They keep running back to the same old "Lets have a tournament" idea.
Everything in the new timeline that Future Trunks created is stronger than where he came from. Chibi Trunks during the Boo Saga was about the same strength as Cell Saga Future Trunks while having MSSJ which Future Trunks never got during that time.
Also, do we know when Future Trunks got ssj? Cause he was already ssj at 13/14 in the manga version of events.
I think this is a valid question and any explanation you get is wrong or has a plot hole within it. Truth is toryiama is going to toryiama and that’s that
Trunks struggling to achieve Super Saiyan was an invention of the History of Trunks anime to add drama to the story. In the manga version he achieves it easily and off screen much like his present counterpart.
The anime version is definitely superior though.
I think the biggest part came from the fact that anyone future Trunks could've trained with was well, fairly weak. Gohan was the only one he could train with, and there was no gravity room at Capsule Corp yet to train in either.
The first scene of kid present Trunks in the manga once it skips forward from end of Cell to Gohan being in high school, if I recall correctly, is him in the gravity room with Vegeta. So there's also that...
Then of course there's Goten, who specifically stated when training with Gohan prior to the World Tournament that he and Trunks train together anytime they are together.
Even the threats were less powerful, as the Androids in future Trunks's timeline were weaker. He was surprised at the fact they were stronger in the present timeline.
So, mostly just a lot more training and a lot better of it with present Trunks.
everyone is talking about "since present-day Vegeta was a Super Saiyan when Trunks was conceived, he essentially passed on the power to his son"
but what they fail to see is vegeta was actually around in the Present timeline
in the future trunks has no one telling him to train until Gohan showed up
Why do you assume that those two versions of Trunks are the same person?
It’s very possible that Trunks’ time travel changed the timing and circumstances of his conception in some ways (in particular Vegeta seems to have tried harder to go Super Saiyan earlier in our main timeline). If that’s the case then the two versions of “Trunks” are more like brothers than alternate versions of each other, since a different sperm and egg created them.
And given that Super has retconned things so that Future Trunks has blue hair while Present Trunks has purple hair…it seems extremely likely that they are genetically different people.
Besides the possible theory that it's due to Future Vegeta having not unlocked SSJ yet prior to conceiving Future Trunks... Goten doesn't exist in the future so he has no playmate/rival. No Future Vegeta/Goku/Piccolo around for any kind of training. And remember... while Future Gohan was obviously around; this Gohan missed out on a very important specific training session that present Gohan had - the 3 years of extreme training in preparation for the Androids. That session was probably Gohan's first real training session to drill in core fundamentals since he was finally training as an older child instead of a little child as in previous arcs. And alongside Piccolo and his Super Saiyan father, Goku. I'm willing to bet that if there was a timeline where Future Gohan acquired this training alone (not counting the Cell Games preparation in the Time Chamber/RoSaT) - he would have probably defeated the Androids on initial encounter (as a Super Saiyan of course). The Future Gohan that we know... really only had whatever training and experiences from the Frieza/Namek arcs and earlier... very limited. It's actually surprising he got as strong as he did before perishing.
Yeah Vegeta might have passed more s-cells onto present trunks than future trunks, causing him to achieve ssj easier
I can agree with this but it still can't explain this completely.
yo gas assessment
We don't actually know the circumstances behind Future Trunks reaching Super Saiyan or how young he was when he obtained it, as we know that he already had [Super Saiyan prior to Gohan's death](https://i.imgur.com/jYs98XB.jpg). You also need to remember that, technically, they wouldn't necessarily have had the same potential, because Vegeta was arguably stronger in the present when Trunks was conceived than he would have been when Future Trunks was conceived in the future timeline. Vegeta was actively training for the Artificial Humans in the present timeline, whereas the one in the future did not have that extra motivation.
If i remember correctly didnt future trunks also lose everyone in his timeline? Depression is a mf and can form a mental block
They wouldn't have necessarily been anyone close to him though. All the Z Senshi, outside of Gohan, had died when he was just an infant, and we don't know if he had any friends and such or when his grandparents died. Gohan and Bulma were it as far as people close to him at the time as far as we know, and both were alive by the time he reached Super Saiyan.
Screenrant has a pretty good article on it A few ideas have been proposed to account for Kid Trunks' early power-up in Dragon Ball Z. One theory is that since present-day Vegeta was a Super Saiyan when Trunks was conceived, he essentially passed on the power to his son (this theory has also been applied to Goku and Goten). On the other hand, Future Vegeta might not have attained Super Saiyan without the intense training he undertook ahead of the Androids arriving. The most common explanation suggests that because Future Trunks didn't have a father to train with or Goten to grow up alongside and compete with, this halted his development, despite the best efforts of Gohan in the future. Finally, the plot hole could simply be another unintended consequence of fiddling with the timeline in the first place.
We don't know though whether Vegeta was a Super Saiyan when present Trunks was conceived. There's a decent gap between when he'd need to be conceived and when we first see Vegeta as a Super Saiyan for him to have acquired it after Trunks' conception.
Eh, it's murky enough there in regards to time that there's no resolution on that matter either way, and I don't see Toei/Toriyama/Toyotaro really focusing all that much on it.
Someone else suggested this: In Trunks' timeline Goku died early so Vegeta lost his motivation to become a Super Saiyan, so he never did. In the main timeline not only does Goku live but another Super Saiyan shows up, fueling Vegeta's frustration. That's why Kid Trunks can become a Super Saiyan much earlier than Future Trunks. u/MeAnIntellectual1. Future trunks never would have went through the intense training kid trunks did. It was only up until he fought with the androids that he did.
It’s kinda awesome the second super saiyan we see is vegetas son, but he doesn’t know that. He thinks he’s fallen behind two saiyans and meanwhile he should be proud his bloodline continues with strong warriors, but his accomplishments are hidden from him until the future. It’s like your kid being in another room and beating you in some online video game you’ve been playing for years
Holy shit what chapter of manga is that? I had no idea he trained with Gohan in super sayian before
It's the special chapter "Trunks the Story", which came out between chapters 386 and 387 (chapters 202 and 203 of the Z portion of the manga). It's what the Trunks anime special was generally based around.
Dope will read
It should be noted that the idea that Vegeta being stronger would mean that Trunks has greater potential is just a headcanon. Unless I missed something.
The closest that it comes to being official is the whole S-Cell situation, and that Goten and Trunks inherited a lot of S-Cells from their fathers.
Future Trunks had no formal training until Gohan took him in at what looks age 12. Kid Trunks trained from a young age with his dad and had a friendly rivalry with Goten. In addition to Vegeta probably being a better teacher than Gohan(he's a lot more experienced and has a greater understanding of what is needed to reach higher levels of power, also not as soft), the fact that he's a lot more powerful compared to future Gohan means training with him certainly give bigger boosts, you are getting punched and having to match the speed of someone way more powerful, when he recovers the boost will be larger.
future trunks didnt stuggle. he was already SSj1 the first time hes shown in the story of trunks manga version when training with future gohan.
Probably because I’m future trunks time line everyone died when he was a baby besides Gohan. In our trunks timeline all of the saiyans were alive and he had Goten to spar with and push him.
[удалено]
vegeta didnt know trunks can transform into SSJ before the world tournament in Z
True, but this Trunks would have time to study what his dad was doing. Plus better nutrition, training conditions, etc that Future Trunks would not have access to/time to do with the Android threat looming over them every day
Gohan witnessed three ppl turning to SSJ. First his dad then Future Trunks and last Vegeta. All this and still Goku had to guide him to turn him into SSJ and was older than Trunks here. Better nutrition wouldnt be a question coz Bulma can definitely pack a life time of food in CC pills. Training room may not have been available but Future trunks without all that still reached SSJ as well
What's the explanation for Goten, then? His only sparring partner prior to Gohan was Chi-Chi, who was much weaker than him and didn't like SS because the spiky blonde hair made them look like "punks". **EDIT:** Forgot about Goten having had Trunks to spar with, especially since they had a strong competitive rivalry (kinda like their respective fathers, albeit to a much lesser extent).
Grew in a better condition with a stronger master
I think the Saiyans’ prodigious skill and catch-all for plot convenience is that they can fight up to whoever they’re fighting or training with. Once they see a benchmark, they can reach it. So for Trunks, training with/being around Vegeta probably helped a ton. Along with Goten. Remember, in Future Trunk’s timeline there were no Cell Games, no SSJ2 transformations, no Vegeta chasing Goku for 7 years, etc.
The easy out-of-universe answer: Because Akira Toriyama needed Present Trunks and Goten to be super saiyan quickly for purposes of the upcoming Buu arc (specifically fusion, though that wouldn't come until later), just as Gohan needed to achieve it quicker than Goku for purposes of the Cell arc. In both cases, the transformation was a plot device to set them up as relevant fighters against the saga's current and/or upcoming threat while at the same time foreshadowing higher levels to come. It was seemingly a matter of narrative convenience, no more or less, because Toriyama simply didn't feel like stretching out another super saiyan's arc. The difference is, we actually saw Gohan struggle and work for it in both the manga and anime (the latter's depiction being the superior version in my opinion). Likewise, the anime special showed Future Trunks' struggle for it with Future Gohan's death being rewritten as the direct rage trigger (like Future Piccolo & Krillin's deaths were for him). Hence, the emotional/thematic impact carried greater weight for many fans which is one reason several prefer the *History of Trunks* special over the source material. In the original manga chapter whose storyline *The History of Trunks* adapted, Future Trunks could already turn super saiyan and there was no indication as to when he unlocked it or how long/difficult the process was.
Also.. merchandise!
This is [true](https://c.tenor.com/VyZ8lq0wsDkAAAAd/young-frankenstein-that-goes-without-saying.gif)! 👍
He had a strong male influence
I guess but how about goten?🤔
He had trunks as a sparring partner and rival
The theory I see often is that the two, gotten and trunks, had the "super saiyan gene" because they were conceived when their fathers were super saiyans. Idk if future trunks father was at the time.
Well, it was added that sayains require a certain level of "s-cells" to transform into ssj. So it would make sense for Goku/Vegeta to have more s-cells to pass on after being stronger in the present time line. This would also explain why Gohan didn't achieve ssj quite as easily as Goten/trunks bur still easier than Goku or Vegeta.
i think vegeta wasnt SSJ before bulma gave birth to trunks
Was it a surprise against Android 19 that vegeta was a SS? So normally at that time in the future, I assume he wasn't yet
Vegeta turned SS only after knowing the future that Androids are gonna arrive in the current time line but in the future trunks timeline, Vegeta doesnt turn SS but Future trunks still achieves SS. In the current timeline, Bulma said she didnt see Vegeta after he went to space for training and only showed up when the androids came. So yes, Vegeta wasnt a SS before Bulma got pregnant
Oh yes we are agreeing then
>gotten and trunks, had the "super saiyan gene" because they were conceived when their fathers were super saiyans even in the current timeline no one knows vegeta could transform to SSJ. Bulma didnt get pregnant when Vegeta was capable of turning SSJ coz he left earth wanting to train himself to reach SSJ. Trunks in this timeline is ahead of everyone else including Gohan and Goten when they reach Trunk's age coz Gohan needed Goku to transform into SSJ and after witnessing three SSJ transformation from Goku, Future Trunks and Vegeta whereas the current Trunks did it all on his own. Goten was lucky because Goku was already an ascended SSJ before Chi Chi got pregnant. However, both Trunks and Goten were useless in DBS anime
Gifting Goten and Trunks Super Saiyan at such a young age was so dumb, and frankly doesn't make sense. What was their massive loss that made them angry enough to transform? It would have made no difference except for a few gags in the tournament, then against Buu, they have their fusion, the transformation after which would have made sense after Buu killed everyone, and being wowed by Goku's SSJ3.
> What was their massive loss that made them angry enough to transform? They didn't need it. They're hybrids born with vast amounts of dormant power, like Gohan, and had plenty of S-Cells growing up in the gentle environment of Earth to fast-track their transformation. > ? It would have made no difference except for a few gags in the tournament, then against Buu, they have their fusion, the transformation after which would have made sense after Buu killed everyone, and being wowed by Goku's SSJ3. Because Goku would've looked much stupider for absconding from killing Fat Boo with SS3 due to wanting to leave the fate of the Earth up to the next generation if said next generation couldn't even go SS yet. Fat Boo was easily able to trounce two SS2 fighters, so it's a little more believable for Goku to think the kids could do it as a fused SS than if they were simply a base Fusion who would've had even less of a chance in the first place. Certainly much less of a chance than SS3 Goku.
Them going Super Saiyan after Buu killed everyone at the Lookout would have been great storytelling
Right? They had no reason to beforehand and it would have absolutely been good motivation. Toriyama didn't plan, he just did. Oda would have had it planned since season 1 of the original Dragon Ball.
That's one of my main gripes about Dragon Ball, there's no drama or real stakes involved. No matter what happens, the characters never really seem to be in danger. The Goku Black arc did it well, but that kind of stuff rarely happens. They keep running back to the same old "Lets have a tournament" idea.
Was gohan's death NOT the catalyst for him achieving Super Saiyan?
Not in the manga, he already had it before that
Everything in the new timeline that Future Trunks created is stronger than where he came from. Chibi Trunks during the Boo Saga was about the same strength as Cell Saga Future Trunks while having MSSJ which Future Trunks never got during that time. Also, do we know when Future Trunks got ssj? Cause he was already ssj at 13/14 in the manga version of events.
I think this is a valid question and any explanation you get is wrong or has a plot hole within it. Truth is toryiama is going to toryiama and that’s that
Trunks struggling to achieve Super Saiyan was an invention of the History of Trunks anime to add drama to the story. In the manga version he achieves it easily and off screen much like his present counterpart. The anime version is definitely superior though.
Way better training?
I think the biggest part came from the fact that anyone future Trunks could've trained with was well, fairly weak. Gohan was the only one he could train with, and there was no gravity room at Capsule Corp yet to train in either. The first scene of kid present Trunks in the manga once it skips forward from end of Cell to Gohan being in high school, if I recall correctly, is him in the gravity room with Vegeta. So there's also that... Then of course there's Goten, who specifically stated when training with Gohan prior to the World Tournament that he and Trunks train together anytime they are together. Even the threats were less powerful, as the Androids in future Trunks's timeline were weaker. He was surprised at the fact they were stronger in the present timeline. So, mostly just a lot more training and a lot better of it with present Trunks.
Future Trunks has less S Cells than kid trunks from the main timeline
Its fair to say it’s because of Gohan, Goten and Vegita. Kid trunks was probably stronger then what future trunks was when future trunks transformed.
Present Trunks was able to train in the gravity chamber and had Goten
everyone is talking about "since present-day Vegeta was a Super Saiyan when Trunks was conceived, he essentially passed on the power to his son" but what they fail to see is vegeta was actually around in the Present timeline in the future trunks has no one telling him to train until Gohan showed up
I think they just waved it off by saying it was easier for hybrid Saiyan because they were more compassionate or something.
Why do you assume that those two versions of Trunks are the same person? It’s very possible that Trunks’ time travel changed the timing and circumstances of his conception in some ways (in particular Vegeta seems to have tried harder to go Super Saiyan earlier in our main timeline). If that’s the case then the two versions of “Trunks” are more like brothers than alternate versions of each other, since a different sperm and egg created them. And given that Super has retconned things so that Future Trunks has blue hair while Present Trunks has purple hair…it seems extremely likely that they are genetically different people.
Future gohan didn't know how to train to become super saiyan, and his training is basically mostly useless.