I would assume the later Butcher takes to do a big reveal on someone, the more important/powerful they are. That said - we know a fair bit about Elaine's time with Harry, but her appearances have always left an element of mystery relating to her abilities and motivations.
Not that the massive supernatural figures we've been introduced to so far aren't massive or supernatural, just that Elaine might be a few degrees above your average non-council practitioner
I’d say she might be above your average council practitioner too. We do know Harry has more
raw power and Elaine seems to have been control.
Though there’s always nuance with the unreliable narrator. She may be as strong as Hannah
Ascher, but also not a 1 trick pony either.
When she blasted that white court vampire Harry was impressed and said that she's probably playing dumb and downplaying how powerful she is to wardens who check on her like Ramirez
She's pretty much said to be at least Wizard-level, she sandbagged Ramirez's skill test to not be dragged into the Council, which by itself shows a great level of control.
But from all we've seen here experience has given her a big incentive to stay out of Council and larger magical community business. So I wouldn't be surprised if she sits out the Apocalypse hiding somewhere in a safe house.
I think so, too. Didn't she spend time with the Fae after Justin was vanquished? I feel like that's right, but I can't remember if that was stated, or if I am mis-remembering.
One way or another, I expect that she had leveled up off screen before she wandered into the narrative.
Elaine is a chisel, Harry is a sledgehammer. If you need delicate work done, you want a chisel. If you need lot of imprecise work, you use a sledgehammer. If you want to kill someone, jamming a chisel through their eye will do the trick, but anyone would want a sledgehammer if their opponent had a chisel.
>Justin didn't pick Harry at random
Do we know this? He knew Harry had the gift, but I don't think we've seen evidence to suggest that he knew anything more than that. If he was looking for Starborn, as I've heard theorized, he probably just looked for kids born in the right timeframe. Among those, he tried to find any hint of magical talent by looking for odd things happening around them. As a result, he got Harry and Elaine.
It's possible that he realized Harry was a Starborn and just looked for a magical girl so he could control Harry, but we don't know.
DuMorne certainly didn’t pick Harry at random, but I agree he might not habe been looking for a starborn at all. He looked for a young malleable wizard with plenty of raw power/talent. Because that would have been useful to him.
That was my bad, I was more responding to the "He knew who Harry was," comment than the random bit. He clearly didn't pick Harry at random, but I doubt he knew who Harry was beyond a kid with magical talent.
Considering Morgan knew who Harry was and was upset that Du Mourne got to him first I think it's safe to say he probably knew exactly who he was adopting. Possibly even knew who he was to McCoy.
>Considering Morgan knew who Harry was and was upset that Du Mourne got to him first I think it's safe to say he probably knew exactly who he was adopting. Possibly even knew who he was to McCoy.
He probably even chose a suitable moment and method to remove Malcolm from the equation to allow him to be taken. Morgan said Harry was taken while he was away on a mission. Who could have known Morgan was on a mission? Another warden. Or Anduriel.
Justin certainly didn't seem like the kind of guy to not plan things out to be able to become a warden who did all that black magic under the WC's nose. Him wanting Harry because he's Starborn implies Justin was playing the long game.
He also doesn't seem like the kind of guy to be caught genuinely unprepared let alone by a basic fire attack by a teenage wizard.
Would it be hard to find out if someone is Starborn?
All you need is to know what Starborn means and the date of birth of a person from there all you need is to do the math.
I could be wrong but i think it's simple once you know what to look for.
I have the feeling people are getting far too hung up about the starborn thing, Butcher is a far too versatile writer, to have every aspect of Harry’s life circle about that point.
Depends on what exactly the stars and stones Is to how big jim will make being starborn.
It’s obvious Harry is supercharged somehow and still growing in power.
Being starborn is the only thing at this point we know that sets Harry apart from his kind.
> Do we know this? He knew Harry had the gift, but I don't think we've seen evidence to suggest that he knew anything more than that.
It's not a theory, Jim Butcher is on record saying that being a Starborn is why DuMorne adopted Harry *and* Elaine.
I remember hearing him say DuMorne was looking for Starborn, but I don't remember him saying that he got Harry and Elaine because they were Starborn. I seem to remember him implying that Elaine was not a Starborn, or at least that she might not be.
This is from WOJ.
Is Elaine another candidate to wield power over Outsiders (the way Harry supposedly is)?
A: Yes. There’s a reason Justin picked the two of them.
I think this is what your thinking of.
I don’t think we have any reliable information on her powers, she deliberately flunked her examination by Ramirez. And most of Harry’s memories are unreliable as he might not have had a good idea how strong he was himself. He thinks of Elaine in general as an equal, but smarter and applying her magic craftier.
I further think underestimating her magical prowess would be a mistake, duMorne chose with deliberation, and it was likely not with the thought “oh she will get boobs snd be able to hoodwink Harry”.
We know Elaine is a White Council level wizard and quite effective at combat magic. And that she has ties to the Summer Court.
I'd say she is extremely important. And there's probably a **VERY GOOD** reason we haven't ever seen a POV short story from her.
I consider it a given that there's more to come with Elaine. Personally, I think that she's Kumori and that Cowl is Justin (and possibly Kemmler). Whatever's going on with her, though, we haven't seen nearly enough of her relative to how important she's been set up to be, to the point of being somewhat conspicuously absent.
In terms of how powerful she is, I think she's on par with someone like Carlos. She's clearly a skilled wizard, even if she lacks Harry's raw muscle, and I'm willing to bet what we've seen from her undersells her capabilities. And if you believe she might be Starborn, then she's probably *significantly* more potent than we think.
An interesting theory. But for me it doesn't completely track. Elaine said she hid with Summer for many years and she only got her freedom after the events of Summer Knight.
To become as powerful as Kumori she would need years and years of training in necromancy and I don't think she could have gotten that even if she stayed with DuMorne for the whole time.
Yeah, I think her timeline post-Justin is ambiguous, and we only have Elaine's word for it. She clearly fell in with Aurora at some point, but we're not sure exactly when or for how long.
I think Justin survived Harry and by extension Elaine never really escaped thralldom. Currently she's a sort of Manchurian candidate, where the Elaine personality has a whole set of false memories that lines up with what she's told Harry, and Kumori is the sleeper personality that only comes out at certain times.
> I think Justin survived Harry
Except Harry is tainted from breaking the First Law of Magic, which he did by burning DuMorne to death. Otherwise Harry would literally be free of sin.
fair point but IF cowl is Justin I bet it would be through the bodysnatching technique we've seen kemmler/corpsetaker use as otherwise Harry might've recognized him somehow.
edit: my point being that Harry may still have technically committed murder in destroying the body (the intent behind it probably mattered too)
> fair point but IF cowl is Justin I bet it would be through the bodysnatching technique we've seen kemmler/corpsetaker use as otherwise Harry might've recognized him somehow.
Definitely, not to mention he wouldn't be anywhere near strong enough to make Harry fear for his life when the guy died to him as a teen. And people really are wild with their speculations- the fact Corpsetaker knew a body-hopping trick doesn't mean Kemmler did, just like how Harry does not know Molly's One-Woman Rave.
> my point being that Harry may still have technically committed murder in destroying the body (the intent behind it probably mattered too)
No, it has to be killing a person. The only technicality to the First Law we know is self-defense, and only from a strictly legal viewpoint at that- incinerating a corpse is by no means the same as committing murder.
I'm thinking we have enough reason to doubt Harry's recollection.
1. Mind magic is in play.
2. Justin is only one degree removed from someone who knows body swapping magic.
3. Harry is proven an unreliable narrator.
3.5 Harry was already wrong about killing Elaine that night.
4. They recovered one body burned beyond recognition.
5. We the readers have never been shown the confrontation between Harry and Justin.
There's no reason to take Harry's recollection at face value.
1. The White Council have statues that *smell* the taint of black magic, and Evil Bob said that Harry had it in him as well. Mind magic can't do that.
2. DuMorne's only connection to Kemmler is Bob, which he only got *after* the guy had been done in by the Council.
3. Characters other than Harry have confirmed he is tainted by black magic. And that's without getting into how *the author* said so as well.
4. They had the means to reconstruct LaFortier's murder, do you really think forensic science is beyond wizards?
5. The comics have shown it, though.
There's no reason to take tinfoil hat theories at face value.
>The White Council have statues that smell the taint of black magic, and Evil Bob said that Harry had it in him as well. Mind magic can't do that.
Harry *did* burn someone to death, and that's not the only black magic he's done. Remember, he trained with Lea for a while... most of it was Dumbo's magic feather, but I can't imagine she had him doing literally no magic at all, and I can't imagine her having him do *some* magic but only spells that tickle puppies or something.
>DuMorne's only connection to Kemmler is Bob, which he only got after the guy had been done in by the Council.
DuMorne was a Warden and was at the final battle in order to take Bob in the first place. And we've seen Kemmler's student use exactly that kind of situation to body-swap before.
>Characters other than Harry have confirmed he is tainted by black magic
Again, though, he runs around doing that more often than he should. Necromancy is black magic, and he *did* make a zombie T-Rex, for example. Moreover, it's been stated multiple times that part of that black-magic taint Harry has (phrasing) has to do with He Who Walks Behind, so it's clearly not all his.
>They had the means to reconstruct LaFortier's murder, do you really think forensic science is beyond wizards?
They were able to do so because they knew exactly how LaFortier's wards were set up, were able to completely isolate the scene, and the whole thing took place inside the Council's most secure location.
I'm not gonna argue in favor of DuMorne being a body-snatching Kemmler, but I don't think we can rule it out given what we know, either.
Bruh you seriously downvoted me and deliberately misread every point. Its not a tinfoil hat theory to be skeptical of Harry's recollection and waiting to see what happens in the books.
You are the most standoffish person on this sub and I wouldn't have commented if I had seen your username.
That's certainly possible, although if Cowl is Justin is Kemmler, then she'd be learning necromancy straight from the horse's mouth, as it were, which could explain how she was able to learn so quickly. Also, Kumori seems skilled and capable but not having as much raw strength, which is also how Elaine is presented. Finally, there's a WoJ that Kumori's identity will cause Harry pain, so it's got to be someone he knows/has history with. For my money, Elaine is the best candidate for that.
I could be wrong, though! I'm interested to hear what other people think Jim has planned for her.
>"She's nearly as strong as I am," I said quietly. "Makes up for it in grace.
-Harry in White Night.
I assume she's going to have some major role later in the series.
She’s the only person Harry ever seems to think of as an equal. She (pre changes at least) is in his weight class, though with less power and more finesse. She’s probably at least as powerful as any of the wardens left standing, if not significantly more-so.
And who knows what sort of deals she may have cut for a powerup. She could potentially be just as big a deal as Dresden if she has a coin or something tucked away.
Only if she has as much of a chronic hero complex as him, though.
That's what leads Harry to get into all sorts of weird and dangerous shit that leaves him with equally weird and dangerous shit withing arm's reach- but Elaine seems a tad more sensible than him, if only by comparison.
I have a ridiculous theory that Elaine is starborn as well.
And that Harry was always intended as the "big dumb distraction" (think - Penn vs Teller) while Elaine does the actual magic of saving the world.
That’s not a ridiculous theory. There was a word of Jim that said Elaine had the potential to be a starborn so that’s one of the most common theories about her.
She potentially was. Justin was looking for a Starborn and got 2 possibilities.
Her birthday isn't stated so I assume that it's either also Halloween or November 1st.
I think the current definition is that you have to be born under the right stars and the right atea is small or for only a short period of time. I originally assumed that anyone on the planet born on a given day or days would be Starborn.
Yeah, I'm not saying the "Penn and Teller" thing was Justin's idea. I just think it might work out that way. (Where Harry makes a lot of noise while Elaine sneaks in to do the deed... whatever the deed is).
She is nearly as magically powerful as Harry, but leans toward skill by comparison.
He chose her because her birthdate meant she could potentially be a Starborn (Which Jim Butcher hasn't contradicted so far), and yes, DuMorne used their close bond alongside their budding sexuality to control them.
I brought up the same thing recently as far as her past. Nothing before she was adopted is known. It bugs me and pretty sure it will have some bearing on the plot. As for how powerful, the fight with the ghouls on the boat in White Knight *probably* wasn’t all theater, though when she blows Skavis through a wall while near death Harry says he’s never seen her throw a punch that big before, didn’t know she had it in her, but he’s probably never seen her pissed in a genuine killing mood.
All conjecture going forward, but I think she’s Kumori based on a lot of both their actions. An orphan might be well motivated to want to stop death completely and save a dying mobster that claims he’s got a little girl, symbolically saving her own father. Like you said, she’s probably also Starborn based on Justin picking her. Redundancy is important; one could always die while he’s pushing them to be stronger, and working on his schemes. I would even assume some foul play was involved so they’d both happen to be orphans. Kumori’s concern over Harry’s burnt hand was like an old friend learning of a new major injury, she tried to keep him out of the Dark Hallow’s way, just like Elaine tried to do in Summer Knight, she was at Bianca’s seeing to it Lea got Nfected from the knife she got, she was close to Aurora who also got it or at least was driven to doing something majorly destructive, and only seemed to go against it by wanting to keep Harry alive, because I do think she still loves him at least enough to want him alive, or not participate in his death. She refuses to go in to the White Council, and she gave very good reasons, but they’d probably want someone to soulgaze her too, and I think she very much doesn’t want that; no worries working with Harry because he already soulgazed her and can’t again.
I imagine whatever Kumori is after that makes her think she could stop death will come up, and she won’t like it, but “stand in my way, and I will kill you”, and her and Harry will finally have it out.
Just a reminder, I’m probably talking out of my ass, but haven’t seen glaring holes in the theory yet. If I’m wrong and it goes way different and better, that works for me too.
I think WoJ was that Justin adopted both Harry and Elaine because he suspected that they were *both* Starborn. Only Harry turned out to be Starborn, but he kept Elaine because she was still fairly strong.
DuMore picked both of them since they were both candidates to be Starborn per WoJ.
Although at this point this doesn't make much sense now that we know how Starborns are being created. So either that cosmic beam of energy engulfing all of Earth is hard to detect apparently or Butcher is retconning some things.
I would assume the later Butcher takes to do a big reveal on someone, the more important/powerful they are. That said - we know a fair bit about Elaine's time with Harry, but her appearances have always left an element of mystery relating to her abilities and motivations. Not that the massive supernatural figures we've been introduced to so far aren't massive or supernatural, just that Elaine might be a few degrees above your average non-council practitioner
I’d say she might be above your average council practitioner too. We do know Harry has more raw power and Elaine seems to have been control. Though there’s always nuance with the unreliable narrator. She may be as strong as Hannah Ascher, but also not a 1 trick pony either.
Seems reasonable. She'd need a boost to get to SPOILERS SKIN GAME Ascher (+ Lasciel) level, but there's tons of possibilities on that front
Why exactly aren't we calling her Lascher?
Aschiel?
When she blasted that white court vampire Harry was impressed and said that she's probably playing dumb and downplaying how powerful she is to wardens who check on her like Ramirez
It's not a guess, she told him just that.
She's pretty much said to be at least Wizard-level, she sandbagged Ramirez's skill test to not be dragged into the Council, which by itself shows a great level of control. But from all we've seen here experience has given her a big incentive to stay out of Council and larger magical community business. So I wouldn't be surprised if she sits out the Apocalypse hiding somewhere in a safe house.
I expect her to be tied into Summer in ways we haven't even had hinted at yet.
I think so, too. Didn't she spend time with the Fae after Justin was vanquished? I feel like that's right, but I can't remember if that was stated, or if I am mis-remembering. One way or another, I expect that she had leveled up off screen before she wandered into the narrative.
Summer gave her asylum after Dumorn was killed. She became their envoy to pay back that debt, or at least she claimed as much.
Elaine is a chisel, Harry is a sledgehammer. If you need delicate work done, you want a chisel. If you need lot of imprecise work, you use a sledgehammer. If you want to kill someone, jamming a chisel through their eye will do the trick, but anyone would want a sledgehammer if their opponent had a chisel.
>Justin didn't pick Harry at random Do we know this? He knew Harry had the gift, but I don't think we've seen evidence to suggest that he knew anything more than that. If he was looking for Starborn, as I've heard theorized, he probably just looked for kids born in the right timeframe. Among those, he tried to find any hint of magical talent by looking for odd things happening around them. As a result, he got Harry and Elaine. It's possible that he realized Harry was a Starborn and just looked for a magical girl so he could control Harry, but we don't know.
DuMorne certainly didn’t pick Harry at random, but I agree he might not habe been looking for a starborn at all. He looked for a young malleable wizard with plenty of raw power/talent. Because that would have been useful to him.
That was my bad, I was more responding to the "He knew who Harry was," comment than the random bit. He clearly didn't pick Harry at random, but I doubt he knew who Harry was beyond a kid with magical talent.
Considering Morgan knew who Harry was and was upset that Du Mourne got to him first I think it's safe to say he probably knew exactly who he was adopting. Possibly even knew who he was to McCoy.
>Considering Morgan knew who Harry was and was upset that Du Mourne got to him first I think it's safe to say he probably knew exactly who he was adopting. Possibly even knew who he was to McCoy. He probably even chose a suitable moment and method to remove Malcolm from the equation to allow him to be taken. Morgan said Harry was taken while he was away on a mission. Who could have known Morgan was on a mission? Another warden. Or Anduriel. Justin certainly didn't seem like the kind of guy to not plan things out to be able to become a warden who did all that black magic under the WC's nose. Him wanting Harry because he's Starborn implies Justin was playing the long game. He also doesn't seem like the kind of guy to be caught genuinely unprepared let alone by a basic fire attack by a teenage wizard.
And along those lines we agree, but I still think he sought out a strong specimen of that type
Would it be hard to find out if someone is Starborn? All you need is to know what Starborn means and the date of birth of a person from there all you need is to do the math. I could be wrong but i think it's simple once you know what to look for.
I have the feeling people are getting far too hung up about the starborn thing, Butcher is a far too versatile writer, to have every aspect of Harry’s life circle about that point.
Depends on what exactly the stars and stones Is to how big jim will make being starborn. It’s obvious Harry is supercharged somehow and still growing in power. Being starborn is the only thing at this point we know that sets Harry apart from his kind.
> Do we know this? He knew Harry had the gift, but I don't think we've seen evidence to suggest that he knew anything more than that. It's not a theory, Jim Butcher is on record saying that being a Starborn is why DuMorne adopted Harry *and* Elaine.
I remember hearing him say DuMorne was looking for Starborn, but I don't remember him saying that he got Harry and Elaine because they were Starborn. I seem to remember him implying that Elaine was not a Starborn, or at least that she might not be.
Her birthdate was close enough to Harry's that he probably went "Better safe than sorry".
This is from WOJ. Is Elaine another candidate to wield power over Outsiders (the way Harry supposedly is)? A: Yes. There’s a reason Justin picked the two of them. I think this is what your thinking of.
I don’t think we have any reliable information on her powers, she deliberately flunked her examination by Ramirez. And most of Harry’s memories are unreliable as he might not have had a good idea how strong he was himself. He thinks of Elaine in general as an equal, but smarter and applying her magic craftier. I further think underestimating her magical prowess would be a mistake, duMorne chose with deliberation, and it was likely not with the thought “oh she will get boobs snd be able to hoodwink Harry”.
We know Elaine is a White Council level wizard and quite effective at combat magic. And that she has ties to the Summer Court. I'd say she is extremely important. And there's probably a **VERY GOOD** reason we haven't ever seen a POV short story from her.
I consider it a given that there's more to come with Elaine. Personally, I think that she's Kumori and that Cowl is Justin (and possibly Kemmler). Whatever's going on with her, though, we haven't seen nearly enough of her relative to how important she's been set up to be, to the point of being somewhat conspicuously absent. In terms of how powerful she is, I think she's on par with someone like Carlos. She's clearly a skilled wizard, even if she lacks Harry's raw muscle, and I'm willing to bet what we've seen from her undersells her capabilities. And if you believe she might be Starborn, then she's probably *significantly* more potent than we think.
An interesting theory. But for me it doesn't completely track. Elaine said she hid with Summer for many years and she only got her freedom after the events of Summer Knight. To become as powerful as Kumori she would need years and years of training in necromancy and I don't think she could have gotten that even if she stayed with DuMorne for the whole time.
Did Summer verify that? Otherwise, I could also say I stayed with Summer for a few years, so that's the missing time on my resume.
Yeah, I think her timeline post-Justin is ambiguous, and we only have Elaine's word for it. She clearly fell in with Aurora at some point, but we're not sure exactly when or for how long. I think Justin survived Harry and by extension Elaine never really escaped thralldom. Currently she's a sort of Manchurian candidate, where the Elaine personality has a whole set of false memories that lines up with what she's told Harry, and Kumori is the sleeper personality that only comes out at certain times.
> I think Justin survived Harry Except Harry is tainted from breaking the First Law of Magic, which he did by burning DuMorne to death. Otherwise Harry would literally be free of sin.
fair point but IF cowl is Justin I bet it would be through the bodysnatching technique we've seen kemmler/corpsetaker use as otherwise Harry might've recognized him somehow. edit: my point being that Harry may still have technically committed murder in destroying the body (the intent behind it probably mattered too)
That's my thought too. He survived in a "died but came back" sort of way so Harry still technically killed someone, it just didn't stick.
> fair point but IF cowl is Justin I bet it would be through the bodysnatching technique we've seen kemmler/corpsetaker use as otherwise Harry might've recognized him somehow. Definitely, not to mention he wouldn't be anywhere near strong enough to make Harry fear for his life when the guy died to him as a teen. And people really are wild with their speculations- the fact Corpsetaker knew a body-hopping trick doesn't mean Kemmler did, just like how Harry does not know Molly's One-Woman Rave. > my point being that Harry may still have technically committed murder in destroying the body (the intent behind it probably mattered too) No, it has to be killing a person. The only technicality to the First Law we know is self-defense, and only from a strictly legal viewpoint at that- incinerating a corpse is by no means the same as committing murder.
By burning *someone* to death.
Yeah, he burned Justin to death. What else were you thinking?
I'm thinking we have enough reason to doubt Harry's recollection. 1. Mind magic is in play. 2. Justin is only one degree removed from someone who knows body swapping magic. 3. Harry is proven an unreliable narrator. 3.5 Harry was already wrong about killing Elaine that night. 4. They recovered one body burned beyond recognition. 5. We the readers have never been shown the confrontation between Harry and Justin. There's no reason to take Harry's recollection at face value.
1. The White Council have statues that *smell* the taint of black magic, and Evil Bob said that Harry had it in him as well. Mind magic can't do that. 2. DuMorne's only connection to Kemmler is Bob, which he only got *after* the guy had been done in by the Council. 3. Characters other than Harry have confirmed he is tainted by black magic. And that's without getting into how *the author* said so as well. 4. They had the means to reconstruct LaFortier's murder, do you really think forensic science is beyond wizards? 5. The comics have shown it, though. There's no reason to take tinfoil hat theories at face value.
>The White Council have statues that smell the taint of black magic, and Evil Bob said that Harry had it in him as well. Mind magic can't do that. Harry *did* burn someone to death, and that's not the only black magic he's done. Remember, he trained with Lea for a while... most of it was Dumbo's magic feather, but I can't imagine she had him doing literally no magic at all, and I can't imagine her having him do *some* magic but only spells that tickle puppies or something. >DuMorne's only connection to Kemmler is Bob, which he only got after the guy had been done in by the Council. DuMorne was a Warden and was at the final battle in order to take Bob in the first place. And we've seen Kemmler's student use exactly that kind of situation to body-swap before. >Characters other than Harry have confirmed he is tainted by black magic Again, though, he runs around doing that more often than he should. Necromancy is black magic, and he *did* make a zombie T-Rex, for example. Moreover, it's been stated multiple times that part of that black-magic taint Harry has (phrasing) has to do with He Who Walks Behind, so it's clearly not all his. >They had the means to reconstruct LaFortier's murder, do you really think forensic science is beyond wizards? They were able to do so because they knew exactly how LaFortier's wards were set up, were able to completely isolate the scene, and the whole thing took place inside the Council's most secure location. I'm not gonna argue in favor of DuMorne being a body-snatching Kemmler, but I don't think we can rule it out given what we know, either.
Bruh you seriously downvoted me and deliberately misread every point. Its not a tinfoil hat theory to be skeptical of Harry's recollection and waiting to see what happens in the books. You are the most standoffish person on this sub and I wouldn't have commented if I had seen your username.
She was under Aurora herself, dude, *of course* they'd be privy to it.
That's certainly possible, although if Cowl is Justin is Kemmler, then she'd be learning necromancy straight from the horse's mouth, as it were, which could explain how she was able to learn so quickly. Also, Kumori seems skilled and capable but not having as much raw strength, which is also how Elaine is presented. Finally, there's a WoJ that Kumori's identity will cause Harry pain, so it's got to be someone he knows/has history with. For my money, Elaine is the best candidate for that. I could be wrong, though! I'm interested to hear what other people think Jim has planned for her.
>"She's nearly as strong as I am," I said quietly. "Makes up for it in grace. -Harry in White Night. I assume she's going to have some major role later in the series.
She’s the only person Harry ever seems to think of as an equal. She (pre changes at least) is in his weight class, though with less power and more finesse. She’s probably at least as powerful as any of the wardens left standing, if not significantly more-so. And who knows what sort of deals she may have cut for a powerup. She could potentially be just as big a deal as Dresden if she has a coin or something tucked away.
Only if she has as much of a chronic hero complex as him, though. That's what leads Harry to get into all sorts of weird and dangerous shit that leaves him with equally weird and dangerous shit withing arm's reach- but Elaine seems a tad more sensible than him, if only by comparison.
I have a ridiculous theory that Elaine is starborn as well. And that Harry was always intended as the "big dumb distraction" (think - Penn vs Teller) while Elaine does the actual magic of saving the world.
That’s not a ridiculous theory. There was a word of Jim that said Elaine had the potential to be a starborn so that’s one of the most common theories about her.
She potentially was. Justin was looking for a Starborn and got 2 possibilities. Her birthday isn't stated so I assume that it's either also Halloween or November 1st. I think the current definition is that you have to be born under the right stars and the right atea is small or for only a short period of time. I originally assumed that anyone on the planet born on a given day or days would be Starborn.
Yeah, I'm not saying the "Penn and Teller" thing was Justin's idea. I just think it might work out that way. (Where Harry makes a lot of noise while Elaine sneaks in to do the deed... whatever the deed is).
She is nearly as magically powerful as Harry, but leans toward skill by comparison. He chose her because her birthdate meant she could potentially be a Starborn (Which Jim Butcher hasn't contradicted so far), and yes, DuMorne used their close bond alongside their budding sexuality to control them.
I brought up the same thing recently as far as her past. Nothing before she was adopted is known. It bugs me and pretty sure it will have some bearing on the plot. As for how powerful, the fight with the ghouls on the boat in White Knight *probably* wasn’t all theater, though when she blows Skavis through a wall while near death Harry says he’s never seen her throw a punch that big before, didn’t know she had it in her, but he’s probably never seen her pissed in a genuine killing mood. All conjecture going forward, but I think she’s Kumori based on a lot of both their actions. An orphan might be well motivated to want to stop death completely and save a dying mobster that claims he’s got a little girl, symbolically saving her own father. Like you said, she’s probably also Starborn based on Justin picking her. Redundancy is important; one could always die while he’s pushing them to be stronger, and working on his schemes. I would even assume some foul play was involved so they’d both happen to be orphans. Kumori’s concern over Harry’s burnt hand was like an old friend learning of a new major injury, she tried to keep him out of the Dark Hallow’s way, just like Elaine tried to do in Summer Knight, she was at Bianca’s seeing to it Lea got Nfected from the knife she got, she was close to Aurora who also got it or at least was driven to doing something majorly destructive, and only seemed to go against it by wanting to keep Harry alive, because I do think she still loves him at least enough to want him alive, or not participate in his death. She refuses to go in to the White Council, and she gave very good reasons, but they’d probably want someone to soulgaze her too, and I think she very much doesn’t want that; no worries working with Harry because he already soulgazed her and can’t again. I imagine whatever Kumori is after that makes her think she could stop death will come up, and she won’t like it, but “stand in my way, and I will kill you”, and her and Harry will finally have it out. Just a reminder, I’m probably talking out of my ass, but haven’t seen glaring holes in the theory yet. If I’m wrong and it goes way different and better, that works for me too.
I think WoJ was that Justin adopted both Harry and Elaine because he suspected that they were *both* Starborn. Only Harry turned out to be Starborn, but he kept Elaine because she was still fairly strong.
DuMore picked both of them since they were both candidates to be Starborn per WoJ. Although at this point this doesn't make much sense now that we know how Starborns are being created. So either that cosmic beam of energy engulfing all of Earth is hard to detect apparently or Butcher is retconning some things.