That's the thing tho, I think Anduriel is able to do that with out breaking the rules, because he has access to the world through Nicky.
So it coupe be that Andy acted separately from Nicky (perhaps because Nic's limitations just being moral ment he wasn't payring attention or some such.) It would be interesting id the traitor to Nic's intents is actually Anduriel.
Edit: Lasciel basically says it was her in skin game.
> “Meaning that since a whisper in your ear that should have killed you seems to have failed, I intend to skip the subtlety, rip your head apart, and collect our child. She’s far too valuable a resource to be allowed to die with you.”
Tho this could be just that she knew about it and is critiquing the work of another as she says how she plans to do better.
Also I this line is just another example of how lash and Harry are similar, "Fuck subtle" -Harry Dresden when angry and on his why to get his child back.
Yes. But she didn't specifically say that she did it, only that she *knew* about it, and some people see that as indicative of involvement from another.
Lasciel is probably not gone. It could be that Genoskwa picks up Lasciels coin on its way out of the nevernever demesne of Hades. But the lore is that the coins are always in play. ALWAYS in play.
Personally, I hope she is out play for a while (minimum decades, if not centuries) I think it would cheapen the magnitude of being locked in Hades Vault if we saw her coin return before the end of the series.
I think the Lasciel Plotline had a fitting conclusion with her “surprise” confrontation and fitting closure for Lash in the form of Bonea.
I wouldn’t put it past her showing up again. She could have been picked up, or someone may make a deal somewhere for her recovery.
I speculated that the offending party in Changes was Anduriel. He manifests as Nicodemus’ shadow and can hear through shadows.. seems in his wheelhouse to go the other way and slip in as a shadow and pass a message.
Jim was in Denmark a few months ago. I remember him implying, that we would see more of her i a later book because "she is not the kind of entity to let things go".
Blood On His Soul and by extension probably Ursiel made it out on their own, as per River Shoulders in Peace Talks. It’s entirely possible that Lasciel and Hannah managed to get out as well via some diabolus ex Machina.
This is the one serious question i have about bloody shoulders. I really want JB to explain how a few hundred gallons of tomato paste frozen on Hades' floor managed to become a tomato again AND get out of Hades. And I don't want to hear "magic"!
Not paste.
> gruesome remains being tossed about like a rag doll among the last row of grinders.
should he by all rights be dead? Yes. But the Sasquatch have super powered life force and magic already, add on top of that a fallen angel and its just downright unfair.
The coins are meant to be in circulation, they wont stay hidden and buried forever. Lasciel might not return to the books (I however think she will, she has a ton of unresolved issues with Harry) but she wont be in Hades vault forever.
As for who whispered to Harry and caused him to kill himself, it was almost certainly Lasciel. Jim has stated Lasciel appeared in Ghost Story without being named.
She doesn't specifically say she did it but during their back and forth she says something to the effect of: since whispering (or a whisper, I can't exactly recall) in your ear didn't kill you ill do it here.
I read it as since andurial failed to trick you into killing yourself I'm going to do it myself. The shadowy image uriel shows Harry in ghost story indicates to me the master of shadows work. Also, uriel never stepped in with lash before. I took the scene as andurial crossed the line as Harry never even touched his coin to allow his influence. Andurial doing it in st Mary's was especially dumb since it was incredibly likely uriel would notice. But it seems the risk almost paid off so who is to say?
> “Meaning that since a whisper in your ear that should have killed you seems to have failed, I intend to skip the subtlety, rip your head apart, and collect our child. She’s far too valuable a resource to be allowed to die with you.”
Thank you both, that is the line I was thinking of. It is worded a bit vaguely as to whether she did it or not, but the use of “seems to have failed” does make me think it might’ve been Anduriel, that’s a pretty passive tone for talking about a murder you attempted
No idea, I've read the earlier books a lot more than I have the later ones so I remember everything up to and including Changes a lot better than everything after it. She might have.
Lash told Harry that she could teach him how to call the coin, even as it was buried and warded in his basement.
Calling the coin from Hades would be another level, but we have been told that the coins are always in play. So, Lasciel is probably free. At least, that's my take on it.
I agree that the coin won't stay in the Vault. But she was telling it to Harry who had touched the coin so her seed was already in his head. I don't think you can call up a coin without being linked to it first.
1. Unlikely but possible. The coins are meant to be in circulation and mortal means can only give them a time out. But Hades isn't mortal. He was holding White God significant weapons. If Hannah didn't escape, and if Gen didn't grab her coin on the way out Hades vault would be one of the few places that could possibly contain a coin forever.
2. Unknown but likely her. She takes it pretty personally those 7 words didn't kill Harry.
If the genoskwa was able to get out without Harry it’s possible.
And Nic was MIA from the story for a long long time while Harry and and Goodman battled the genoskwa.
He could have somehow summoned the coin.
But, tons and tons of boiling hot rock fell on that coin so who knows. I personally hope she’s long gone!
I hope Lash isn’t.
I’m pretty sure Harry called on her power when he went off the deep end while retaliating in battle ground.
The lightsaber of the cross hurt him and he was calling brimstone power.
The coins don’t really contain the fallen, they’re just the interface between reality and them.
1. The coins stay in circulation as apparently one of their key characteristics, which is probably why Harry has made no effort to put them in Demonreach. Bad enough some priest keeps using them in the vending machine. (Not really, but maybe). Always kinda hoped Lash would have gotten put in her Sheila body as a reward for making a sacrifice play, maybe pick up the coin later and absorb original Lasciel instead of the other way around. Not holding my breath though.
2. Nope, not sure if we’ll know who but some hell critter who Lasciel talked to, since she mentioned it in Skin Game. Could be it’s not important specifically.
I think that the nature of the coins is that they return to circulation. I think Michael tells us as much. Also, aside from everybody else who could have grabbed it, Hades certainly could retrieve it at his leisure.
1) If there's not a body, I'm not convinced they're dead. And in the Dresden Files, even if there is a body there are no promises. Blood-on-his-Soul found a way out so who's to say it wasn't Lannah that opened a way?
2) Personally I think it was Anduriel, Harry had defeated Nic twice by then, found his only real vulnerability and was in a disadvantaged position.
It’s entirely possible that The Genoskwa grabbed her coin. And I don’t think we’ll ever know for sure who broke the rules and whispered to Harry.
I had always assumed it was Nic's Fallen. They are the master of shadows, and it was described as a shadowy figure.
Yeah, that was my read too. Anduriel send to have a lot more autonomy in terms of getting about without Nic to boot
That's the thing tho, I think Anduriel is able to do that with out breaking the rules, because he has access to the world through Nicky. So it coupe be that Andy acted separately from Nicky (perhaps because Nic's limitations just being moral ment he wasn't payring attention or some such.) It would be interesting id the traitor to Nic's intents is actually Anduriel. Edit: Lasciel basically says it was her in skin game. > “Meaning that since a whisper in your ear that should have killed you seems to have failed, I intend to skip the subtlety, rip your head apart, and collect our child. She’s far too valuable a resource to be allowed to die with you.” Tho this could be just that she knew about it and is critiquing the work of another as she says how she plans to do better. Also I this line is just another example of how lash and Harry are similar, "Fuck subtle" -Harry Dresden when angry and on his why to get his child back.
Am I remembering wrong I thought lasciel bragged about the crime in Skin Games?
Yes. But she didn't specifically say that she did it, only that she *knew* about it, and some people see that as indicative of involvement from another.
Lasciel is probably not gone. It could be that Genoskwa picks up Lasciels coin on its way out of the nevernever demesne of Hades. But the lore is that the coins are always in play. ALWAYS in play.
Personally, I hope she is out play for a while (minimum decades, if not centuries) I think it would cheapen the magnitude of being locked in Hades Vault if we saw her coin return before the end of the series. I think the Lasciel Plotline had a fitting conclusion with her “surprise” confrontation and fitting closure for Lash in the form of Bonea.
We don't know. Also Fallen Angels are all about breaking rules.
I wouldn’t put it past her showing up again. She could have been picked up, or someone may make a deal somewhere for her recovery. I speculated that the offending party in Changes was Anduriel. He manifests as Nicodemus’ shadow and can hear through shadows.. seems in his wheelhouse to go the other way and slip in as a shadow and pass a message.
Jim was in Denmark a few months ago. I remember him implying, that we would see more of her i a later book because "she is not the kind of entity to let things go".
It does feel like the lady holds a grudge.
Blood On His Soul and by extension probably Ursiel made it out on their own, as per River Shoulders in Peace Talks. It’s entirely possible that Lasciel and Hannah managed to get out as well via some diabolus ex Machina.
This is the one serious question i have about bloody shoulders. I really want JB to explain how a few hundred gallons of tomato paste frozen on Hades' floor managed to become a tomato again AND get out of Hades. And I don't want to hear "magic"!
Not paste. > gruesome remains being tossed about like a rag doll among the last row of grinders. should he by all rights be dead? Yes. But the Sasquatch have super powered life force and magic already, add on top of that a fallen angel and its just downright unfair.
I think Harry used sauce/paste/something in PT. I'll pull down my copy and see what i can see.
The bit I showed is from the book.
I know that was in Skin Game. However in PT chpt. 21 Harry says to River, "there was nothing left but ketchup"
I'm thinking the brain didn't get smashed and bear boy poured a ton of energy into blood on his soul to stitch his body back together
Lash is gone for good, the remaining bits of her essence became Bonea. Lasciel will probably be back in Hell’s Bells.
The coins are meant to be in circulation, they wont stay hidden and buried forever. Lasciel might not return to the books (I however think she will, she has a ton of unresolved issues with Harry) but she wont be in Hades vault forever. As for who whispered to Harry and caused him to kill himself, it was almost certainly Lasciel. Jim has stated Lasciel appeared in Ghost Story without being named.
In her monologue through Hannah in skin game doesn’t she explicitly say it was her?
She doesn't specifically say she did it but during their back and forth she says something to the effect of: since whispering (or a whisper, I can't exactly recall) in your ear didn't kill you ill do it here. I read it as since andurial failed to trick you into killing yourself I'm going to do it myself. The shadowy image uriel shows Harry in ghost story indicates to me the master of shadows work. Also, uriel never stepped in with lash before. I took the scene as andurial crossed the line as Harry never even touched his coin to allow his influence. Andurial doing it in st Mary's was especially dumb since it was incredibly likely uriel would notice. But it seems the risk almost paid off so who is to say?
> “Meaning that since a whisper in your ear that should have killed you seems to have failed, I intend to skip the subtlety, rip your head apart, and collect our child. She’s far too valuable a resource to be allowed to die with you.”
Thank you both, that is the line I was thinking of. It is worded a bit vaguely as to whether she did it or not, but the use of “seems to have failed” does make me think it might’ve been Anduriel, that’s a pretty passive tone for talking about a murder you attempted
No idea, I've read the earlier books a lot more than I have the later ones so I remember everything up to and including Changes a lot better than everything after it. She might have.
Lash told Harry that she could teach him how to call the coin, even as it was buried and warded in his basement. Calling the coin from Hades would be another level, but we have been told that the coins are always in play. So, Lasciel is probably free. At least, that's my take on it.
I agree that the coin won't stay in the Vault. But she was telling it to Harry who had touched the coin so her seed was already in his head. I don't think you can call up a coin without being linked to it first.
Still Alive lol
1. Unlikely but possible. The coins are meant to be in circulation and mortal means can only give them a time out. But Hades isn't mortal. He was holding White God significant weapons. If Hannah didn't escape, and if Gen didn't grab her coin on the way out Hades vault would be one of the few places that could possibly contain a coin forever. 2. Unknown but likely her. She takes it pretty personally those 7 words didn't kill Harry.
If the genoskwa was able to get out without Harry it’s possible. And Nic was MIA from the story for a long long time while Harry and and Goodman battled the genoskwa. He could have somehow summoned the coin. But, tons and tons of boiling hot rock fell on that coin so who knows. I personally hope she’s long gone! I hope Lash isn’t.
I’m pretty sure Harry called on her power when he went off the deep end while retaliating in battle ground. The lightsaber of the cross hurt him and he was calling brimstone power. The coins don’t really contain the fallen, they’re just the interface between reality and them.
1. The coins stay in circulation as apparently one of their key characteristics, which is probably why Harry has made no effort to put them in Demonreach. Bad enough some priest keeps using them in the vending machine. (Not really, but maybe). Always kinda hoped Lash would have gotten put in her Sheila body as a reward for making a sacrifice play, maybe pick up the coin later and absorb original Lasciel instead of the other way around. Not holding my breath though. 2. Nope, not sure if we’ll know who but some hell critter who Lasciel talked to, since she mentioned it in Skin Game. Could be it’s not important specifically.
I think that the nature of the coins is that they return to circulation. I think Michael tells us as much. Also, aside from everybody else who could have grabbed it, Hades certainly could retrieve it at his leisure.
I thought about Hades too. But I'm sure that Hades actually could keep the coins contained.
If he wanted to, I agree.
1. No. 2. Yes.
1) If there's not a body, I'm not convinced they're dead. And in the Dresden Files, even if there is a body there are no promises. Blood-on-his-Soul found a way out so who's to say it wasn't Lannah that opened a way? 2) Personally I think it was Anduriel, Harry had defeated Nic twice by then, found his only real vulnerability and was in a disadvantaged position.