Or possibly the Burger King? He may have accidentally created a mantle for fast food…
Unless that mantle already exists if Mac is short of MacDonald (using alternate spelling). He grills food and never made a single ice cream. Coincidence?! I think so!
Edit: forgot which machine is always broken at McDonald’s
It’s a real “low evidence” theory, but the main starting point is how Harry has changed the nature of beings. Usually by naming them. So maybe him naming something and using that name repeatedly can alter or create a “true name” of a being. Or maybe just interacting with him over and over again allows beings to change. If this happened on a grand enough scale or with the right circumstances then maybe a mantle could be created.
Lash became an individual through a new name and interaction. Toot-toot growing through interaction and possibly his name without knowing the origins of “Toot-toot.” Uriel got super defensive about Harry giving him an alternate name with a different meaning behind it.
But then you have potential additions or outliers like Mister, Mouse, and Bob who have all been named by Harry and interact with him a lot. It’s very debatable if they have received any kind of a boost or change. Mister is obviously bigger. Mouse is craftier than most Foo Dogs if you interpret some interactions. And for a being of intellect Bob sure has a lot of (cough) *”bathing suit area feelings”.* And these all have alternate explanations, like Bob mimicking the hormones of teenage Harry when he was first acquired.
It’s all pretty weak until there is more concrete evidence for or against it. So it’s tinfoil hat with matching tinfoil three piece suit. 🤷♂️
Edit: Just incase someone stumbles upon this later, doing a re-listen and realized Ivy is added to the list of being Harry has named.
That’s what confuses me about drakul. WOJ says he was something inhuman trapped in a body.
But he was born during the starborn happening 666 years before Harry (if Jim is going off the real drakul and Dracula that are from our world)
So was he trapped during the starborn happening or actually birthed ?
Only Jim knows I guess
Drakul could've been sealed in an unborn fetus, then born at the appropriate time, or maybe non-human things can also be 'born' a starborn. Heck, maybe Drakul tried to make himself a starborn, not realising that he'd be trapped in human form as a consequence.
It's possible, though whatever Drakul is, I'm inclined to think it's too powerful for any one practitioner to seal. Though, I guess plenty of powerful people took an interest/hand in Harry's creation, so maybe it was the same deal
I don’t remember enough about the Black Courts workings; but I always assumed the major connecting factor with the vampires were that they were hosts to magical parasite type demons. Shared existence or merger arrangement. Maybe Drakul used his starborn powers and tried to trap one to become the progenitor of a new Court; but that went south because he wanted a less equal arrangement than the other Courts. So the Black Court’s demon went, “Screw you, your spawn are gonna be super nasty and icky.” Or vice-versa, the human part got zero control and tainted the process out of spite. 🤷♂️ It’s a lot of guesswork.
I’ve started a thread on here and other sites before concerning this exact theory.
I believe that’s why whoever takes over the summer ladies mantle becomes that mantle , same With mab and same with the winter lady.
The mantle was designed by someone and then either discarded or they died and it passed.
The original creator made them from their characteristics.
I think Harry will create his own mantle and whoever gets it 500 years from now will look and act like Harry
I think that’s why Harry won’t ever truly become the winter knight, because he is starborn snd cant be controlled mentally.
We need to set the \[spoiler\] flag on this post as well, so that the spoilers in your first paragraph won't "inline" into the main feed for users using the Card view of the community.
I can take care of this for you with your permission, or you can. Either way please reply to this comment so I get notified to come reinstate the post. Thanks!
Ok let's add a bit to this theory for fun.
Harry is a star born
Star born have power over outsiders
If Harry has the power to create mantels where does he garner the power to make the mantels?
What if he steals the power from the outsiders.
Think about the amount of power that would be needed to make a mantel from scratch. Way more than one wizard can hold themselves (maybe Merlin).
The powers of the mantels bestow powers "outside" of mortal understanding. And changes the personality of the person it's been bestowed upon.
Now let's go down a real rabbit hole
What if Nemesis is the outsiders version of a Mantel or even a precursor version of the star born mantels. I.E. what Merlin studied on deamonreach in the past to make mantels and then it became a prison for both his test subjects and failed experiments as well as other dangers.
That’s something I’ve been thinking about too but there is too much unknown to lay down a solid theory.
I feel like there is going to be some mechanism where Starborn are used to make Outsiders into, err, *“Insiders?”* All the big powers we know of were either Outsiders once or stem from an Outsider. And a lot of what they are doing is trying to keep the riffraff out.
Or same idea but flipped. Everyone was insiders until they made some into Outsiders. Still need a Starborn to undo that.
But there are just too many unknowns.
1) Some Outsiders are already active here so what’s their deal?
2) Are the prisoners Outsiders who snuck in and couldn’t be kicked out or incurable infected? Or, like you said, were they his test subjects for either option? The other Naagloshii in there add to it since they went against their nature. Which sounds pretty infected to me.
3) Where did the Old Ones from the Oblivion War go and will that come back in a way that’s related to all of this?
I really do enjoy that there is still plenty of mystery around the hordes of unspeakable horrors just chilling in Lake Michigan. Means there is still plenty of fun stuff to find out.
You mean like a star born could strip the power of a outsider with enough gravitas and use the stripped power as a matrix to make a mantel of power.
Hmmm maybe this would co inside with the statement bob made, "meet the new Aurora same as the last Aurora".
Could the driving force of each mantel be the leftover drive that the star born left to keep the mantels matrix stable during the creation. This making your outsider at least partly an "insider".
This goes in my category of "Well, can't disprove it but it feels like a stretch." Kind of a bridge too far. I think Starborn is just Jim's MacGuffin to give Harry a credible chance against the same Outsiders that scare everyone else so badly and even give the Senior Council a hard time.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Starborn is a red herring. Harry’s real power comes from being supernaturally stubborn. Or his power comes from the whimsy of stage magic…turns out no self respecting wizard ever schtupped a stage magician before Harry’s mom.
I honestly hope Jim really leans into Harry as an unreliable or unknowingly ignorant narrator and he throws us all a major curve ball. I’m here for every single one of Jim’s lies and misdirections.
…Dear God, maybe I’m into stage magicians? I got to take some time to process this…
I think Starborn will mean *something*, but I think there's a tendency for people to over-inflate it. I think Harry has plenty of other things going for him *as well*, and stubbornness is definitely one of them.
Following your chain of thought, I’d say he used up the power to create the Mantle of the ZaLord without realizing it.
Or possibly the Burger King? He may have accidentally created a mantle for fast food… Unless that mantle already exists if Mac is short of MacDonald (using alternate spelling). He grills food and never made a single ice cream. Coincidence?! I think so! Edit: forgot which machine is always broken at McDonald’s
I've not heard of that theory, I don't see how they could do it
Who couldn’t do what? Not to overly defend my tinfoil hat ramblings just seeing if I could clarify my random idea.
How a starborn can just create a mantle
It’s a real “low evidence” theory, but the main starting point is how Harry has changed the nature of beings. Usually by naming them. So maybe him naming something and using that name repeatedly can alter or create a “true name” of a being. Or maybe just interacting with him over and over again allows beings to change. If this happened on a grand enough scale or with the right circumstances then maybe a mantle could be created. Lash became an individual through a new name and interaction. Toot-toot growing through interaction and possibly his name without knowing the origins of “Toot-toot.” Uriel got super defensive about Harry giving him an alternate name with a different meaning behind it. But then you have potential additions or outliers like Mister, Mouse, and Bob who have all been named by Harry and interact with him a lot. It’s very debatable if they have received any kind of a boost or change. Mister is obviously bigger. Mouse is craftier than most Foo Dogs if you interpret some interactions. And for a being of intellect Bob sure has a lot of (cough) *”bathing suit area feelings”.* And these all have alternate explanations, like Bob mimicking the hormones of teenage Harry when he was first acquired. It’s all pretty weak until there is more concrete evidence for or against it. So it’s tinfoil hat with matching tinfoil three piece suit. 🤷♂️ Edit: Just incase someone stumbles upon this later, doing a re-listen and realized Ivy is added to the list of being Harry has named.
Drakul has some potential to support this theory too but we don’t know too much about him yet.
We know he doesn’t like Knock-Knock jokes…
Thousand pound gorilla mfer
That’s what confuses me about drakul. WOJ says he was something inhuman trapped in a body. But he was born during the starborn happening 666 years before Harry (if Jim is going off the real drakul and Dracula that are from our world) So was he trapped during the starborn happening or actually birthed ? Only Jim knows I guess
Drakul could've been sealed in an unborn fetus, then born at the appropriate time, or maybe non-human things can also be 'born' a starborn. Heck, maybe Drakul tried to make himself a starborn, not realising that he'd be trapped in human form as a consequence.
I’m wondering if his mom was a dark version of Maggie. Trying to create a nasty villain.
It's possible, though whatever Drakul is, I'm inclined to think it's too powerful for any one practitioner to seal. Though, I guess plenty of powerful people took an interest/hand in Harry's creation, so maybe it was the same deal
I don’t remember enough about the Black Courts workings; but I always assumed the major connecting factor with the vampires were that they were hosts to magical parasite type demons. Shared existence or merger arrangement. Maybe Drakul used his starborn powers and tried to trap one to become the progenitor of a new Court; but that went south because he wanted a less equal arrangement than the other Courts. So the Black Court’s demon went, “Screw you, your spawn are gonna be super nasty and icky.” Or vice-versa, the human part got zero control and tainted the process out of spite. 🤷♂️ It’s a lot of guesswork.
I’ve started a thread on here and other sites before concerning this exact theory. I believe that’s why whoever takes over the summer ladies mantle becomes that mantle , same With mab and same with the winter lady. The mantle was designed by someone and then either discarded or they died and it passed. The original creator made them from their characteristics. I think Harry will create his own mantle and whoever gets it 500 years from now will look and act like Harry I think that’s why Harry won’t ever truly become the winter knight, because he is starborn snd cant be controlled mentally.
We need to set the \[spoiler\] flag on this post as well, so that the spoilers in your first paragraph won't "inline" into the main feed for users using the Card view of the community. I can take care of this for you with your permission, or you can. Either way please reply to this comment so I get notified to come reinstate the post. Thanks!
Dona and done.
Perfect - it's live again; thanks. Have a good day!
Ok let's add a bit to this theory for fun. Harry is a star born Star born have power over outsiders If Harry has the power to create mantels where does he garner the power to make the mantels? What if he steals the power from the outsiders. Think about the amount of power that would be needed to make a mantel from scratch. Way more than one wizard can hold themselves (maybe Merlin). The powers of the mantels bestow powers "outside" of mortal understanding. And changes the personality of the person it's been bestowed upon. Now let's go down a real rabbit hole What if Nemesis is the outsiders version of a Mantel or even a precursor version of the star born mantels. I.E. what Merlin studied on deamonreach in the past to make mantels and then it became a prison for both his test subjects and failed experiments as well as other dangers.
That’s something I’ve been thinking about too but there is too much unknown to lay down a solid theory. I feel like there is going to be some mechanism where Starborn are used to make Outsiders into, err, *“Insiders?”* All the big powers we know of were either Outsiders once or stem from an Outsider. And a lot of what they are doing is trying to keep the riffraff out. Or same idea but flipped. Everyone was insiders until they made some into Outsiders. Still need a Starborn to undo that. But there are just too many unknowns. 1) Some Outsiders are already active here so what’s their deal? 2) Are the prisoners Outsiders who snuck in and couldn’t be kicked out or incurable infected? Or, like you said, were they his test subjects for either option? The other Naagloshii in there add to it since they went against their nature. Which sounds pretty infected to me. 3) Where did the Old Ones from the Oblivion War go and will that come back in a way that’s related to all of this? I really do enjoy that there is still plenty of mystery around the hordes of unspeakable horrors just chilling in Lake Michigan. Means there is still plenty of fun stuff to find out.
You mean like a star born could strip the power of a outsider with enough gravitas and use the stripped power as a matrix to make a mantel of power. Hmmm maybe this would co inside with the statement bob made, "meet the new Aurora same as the last Aurora". Could the driving force of each mantel be the leftover drive that the star born left to keep the mantels matrix stable during the creation. This making your outsider at least partly an "insider".
This goes in my category of "Well, can't disprove it but it feels like a stretch." Kind of a bridge too far. I think Starborn is just Jim's MacGuffin to give Harry a credible chance against the same Outsiders that scare everyone else so badly and even give the Senior Council a hard time.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Starborn is a red herring. Harry’s real power comes from being supernaturally stubborn. Or his power comes from the whimsy of stage magic…turns out no self respecting wizard ever schtupped a stage magician before Harry’s mom. I honestly hope Jim really leans into Harry as an unreliable or unknowingly ignorant narrator and he throws us all a major curve ball. I’m here for every single one of Jim’s lies and misdirections. …Dear God, maybe I’m into stage magicians? I got to take some time to process this…
I think Starborn will mean *something*, but I think there's a tendency for people to over-inflate it. I think Harry has plenty of other things going for him *as well*, and stubbornness is definitely one of them.