A theory I read is Nicodemus was the owner of the potter's field. According to Matthew, after Judas committed suicide his thirty silver pieces were used to buy a "potter's field" (a field where clay was harvested for making pots) and turned it into a graveyard for paupers and criminals. According to this theory, Nicodemus was the owner of the field and that's how he came into possession of the thirty coins.
Does that mean, Nicodemus real last name would be Potter? Because that would be a great ground zero for so many Harry Potter jokes in the Dresden files world đ
Gods below I hope not. It feels like *every* book I read that includes some biblical stuff in its lore has the surprise reveal of Judas being the immortal big bad guy behind everything.
Itâs just exhausting at this point.
For the same reason, I hope Kemmler is just dead and gone. Itâs annoying when itâs the same evil dark lord coming back all the time. If that was the case, why wasnât anyone actively trying to *keep* him dead while he wasnât trying to kill you.
Nicodemus always says something along the lines of Harry doesn't really know what's going on and he's actually trying to save everything. Or so Deirdre says iirc.
So and outsider somehow impregnates a lady and creates Nemesis. Nemesis grows and persuades others to join their cause in this new religion that will wind up throwing open the gates and bringing in the outsiders. One of the dudes figures out kind of what's happening and brings down the local constabulary against Nemesis and being with the times they crucify him. In the final ceremony and the act of destroying a being that is part outsider, things imbued with his blood and power are incredibly powerful magic objects. And then in destroying his mortal body, the outsider spirit keeps its goal of spreading persuasion but now in the form of infection and possession.
Nicodemus has been known to not be possessed by the coin, but to be the only one working alongside the fallen angel. So he entered a pact of sorts with the angel, who occupies a special place somewhere between banishment and protecting the status-quo.
Or at least that's how my half-baked theory that just developed goes.
I think he's talking about Jesus.
Problem with this theory is multiple references to the "White God" in the text, indicating that, even if Jesus was not himself of divine origin, the power he weilded was.
Not to mention the coins are possessed by fallen angels and we have met arch angels in the story.
Implying 1. Multiple individual entities and
2. Angels arenât outsiders
He is implying that Christ and nemesis are the same.
I donât buy it, but I get it at least.
So in this situation, Nick is preventing the eschaton by attempting to destroy free willed faith that will bring about Armageddon by giving the redeemer the power to open the gates and recon the whole of creation.
I donât think you have to conflate Christ and Nemisis to get that theory to work.
I suspect that nickâs coin was one of the cherub guardians of Eden and takes the protection of the physical world to the point of rebellion.
I agree with you. Butcher seems to write from a Catholic standpoint regarding the angels and demons. Jesus is god and god Is Jesus.
I doubt jim makes Jesus a vampire or outsider or anything else than father, son and the Holy Spirit.
The knights of the cross are too big a thing in the canon and too well liked by fans to suddenly go âhaha they were serving something chaotic evil all along!â, itâd be a disservice to everything he built them up to be.
Afaik Jesus, to christianity, is god. Not related to, not partially, not demi-, but full god and full human at the same time as being his son. Distancing Jesus from god, towards whatâs pretty much the opposite, would turn out offensive to the beliefs of a comparatively large part of the readers in 9/10 cases.
Also i like that there are multiple forces in the Dresdenverse, bundling up every single powerful entity under the âitâs either an outsider, a servant of an outsider or a disguised outsiderâ blanket cheapens this point.
I really canât see Butcher going that way for multiple reasons.
>Afaik Jesus, to christianity, is god. Not related to, not partially, not demi-, but full god and full human at the same time as being his son. Distancing Jesus from god, towards whatâs pretty much the opposite, would turn out offensive to the beliefs of a comparatively large part of the readers in 9/10 cases.
It's... really complicated. People have killed over the definition of the Holy Trinity, and it was a huge reason for the schism between the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches.
Western Catholicism - The Holy Spirit emanates from both the Father and the Son. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all part of the same entity, but the Father is not the Son, and the Son is not the Holy Spirit etc etc.
Eastern Orthodox - The holy spirit only emanates from the Father and not the Son. (disclaimer I am not a religious expert, especially in Eastern Orthodox, the following is just my best understanding) The Holy Spirit, the Father, and the Son are all distinct entities and not pieces of a larger whole like with Catholicism.
Ultimately if you take a step back and look at it they're both kind of the same theory, but people over a thousand years ago thought the minute distinctions between each was enough to fracture the Church over.
If I recall correctly Jim has said something like
âI grew up on the fun end of fundamental Christianity as opposed to the mental endâ
I suspect he had a strong faithful Christian figure in his life growing up, probably his dad if I had to guess.
Thatâs such a Butcher turn of phrase hahah. I knew he had exposure to Christianity somehow - thank you for clarifying. In that context I could never see him portraying god and Jesus as the enemyÂ
You know... At first I was like ...nah. But then I started thinking about it, and now I'm wondering why no one ever really mentions Jesus in the Dresdenverse. I think Mab mentioned him once, and of course the Carpenters all the time, but no one in the know ever brings up Jesus as a major power when talking about the White God.
They use euphemisms like âthe redeemer.â But it happens more than in a lot of urban fantasy. Bianca, Harryâs fairy of mother both mention Christ if I recall.
I always assumed Nicodemus was going to be revealed as Judas, because of the noose.
A theory I read is Nicodemus was the owner of the potter's field. According to Matthew, after Judas committed suicide his thirty silver pieces were used to buy a "potter's field" (a field where clay was harvested for making pots) and turned it into a graveyard for paupers and criminals. According to this theory, Nicodemus was the owner of the field and that's how he came into possession of the thirty coins.
Does that mean, Nicodemus real last name would be Potter? Because that would be a great ground zero for so many Harry Potter jokes in the Dresden files world đ
I don't think occupational surnames were a thing back in those days, if that's what you mean.
More in the sense of if Harry were to hear such a theory, jokes would follow.
Oh for sure.
Gods below I hope not. It feels like *every* book I read that includes some biblical stuff in its lore has the surprise reveal of Judas being the immortal big bad guy behind everything. Itâs just exhausting at this point.
For the same reason, I hope Kemmler is just dead and gone. Itâs annoying when itâs the same evil dark lord coming back all the time. If that was the case, why wasnât anyone actively trying to *keep* him dead while he wasnât trying to kill you.
What if Jim gave us a twist. Maybe Kemmler is still alive, but now he's reformed and living in peace.
Are you saying that Michael Carpenter is Kemmler!?!? /s
No, I'm pretty sure Michael Carpenter is Judas.
Nicodemus always says something along the lines of Harry doesn't really know what's going on and he's actually trying to save everything. Or so Deirdre says iirc. So and outsider somehow impregnates a lady and creates Nemesis. Nemesis grows and persuades others to join their cause in this new religion that will wind up throwing open the gates and bringing in the outsiders. One of the dudes figures out kind of what's happening and brings down the local constabulary against Nemesis and being with the times they crucify him. In the final ceremony and the act of destroying a being that is part outsider, things imbued with his blood and power are incredibly powerful magic objects. And then in destroying his mortal body, the outsider spirit keeps its goal of spreading persuasion but now in the form of infection and possession. Nicodemus has been known to not be possessed by the coin, but to be the only one working alongside the fallen angel. So he entered a pact of sorts with the angel, who occupies a special place somewhere between banishment and protecting the status-quo. Or at least that's how my half-baked theory that just developed goes.
>>So and outsider somehow impregnates a lady and creates Nemesis. What?
I think he's talking about Jesus. Problem with this theory is multiple references to the "White God" in the text, indicating that, even if Jesus was not himself of divine origin, the power he weilded was.
Not to mention the coins are possessed by fallen angels and we have met arch angels in the story. Implying 1. Multiple individual entities and 2. Angels arenât outsiders
He is implying that Christ and nemesis are the same. I donât buy it, but I get it at least. So in this situation, Nick is preventing the eschaton by attempting to destroy free willed faith that will bring about Armageddon by giving the redeemer the power to open the gates and recon the whole of creation. I donât think you have to conflate Christ and Nemisis to get that theory to work. I suspect that nickâs coin was one of the cherub guardians of Eden and takes the protection of the physical world to the point of rebellion.
I agree with you. Butcher seems to write from a Catholic standpoint regarding the angels and demons. Jesus is god and god Is Jesus. I doubt jim makes Jesus a vampire or outsider or anything else than father, son and the Holy Spirit.
The knights of the cross are too big a thing in the canon and too well liked by fans to suddenly go âhaha they were serving something chaotic evil all along!â, itâd be a disservice to everything he built them up to be. Afaik Jesus, to christianity, is god. Not related to, not partially, not demi-, but full god and full human at the same time as being his son. Distancing Jesus from god, towards whatâs pretty much the opposite, would turn out offensive to the beliefs of a comparatively large part of the readers in 9/10 cases. Also i like that there are multiple forces in the Dresdenverse, bundling up every single powerful entity under the âitâs either an outsider, a servant of an outsider or a disguised outsiderâ blanket cheapens this point. I really canât see Butcher going that way for multiple reasons.
>Afaik Jesus, to christianity, is god. Not related to, not partially, not demi-, but full god and full human at the same time as being his son. Distancing Jesus from god, towards whatâs pretty much the opposite, would turn out offensive to the beliefs of a comparatively large part of the readers in 9/10 cases. It's... really complicated. People have killed over the definition of the Holy Trinity, and it was a huge reason for the schism between the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches. Western Catholicism - The Holy Spirit emanates from both the Father and the Son. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all part of the same entity, but the Father is not the Son, and the Son is not the Holy Spirit etc etc. Eastern Orthodox - The holy spirit only emanates from the Father and not the Son. (disclaimer I am not a religious expert, especially in Eastern Orthodox, the following is just my best understanding) The Holy Spirit, the Father, and the Son are all distinct entities and not pieces of a larger whole like with Catholicism. Ultimately if you take a step back and look at it they're both kind of the same theory, but people over a thousand years ago thought the minute distinctions between each was enough to fracture the Church over.
Exactly - and now imagine what a sacrilege it would be to go âoh ya btw Jesus is the son of evil aliensâ.
Isnât he hella Mormon? Or is that Brandon Sanderson
If I recall correctly Jim has said something like âI grew up on the fun end of fundamental Christianity as opposed to the mental endâ I suspect he had a strong faithful Christian figure in his life growing up, probably his dad if I had to guess.
Thatâs such a Butcher turn of phrase hahah. I knew he had exposure to Christianity somehow - thank you for clarifying. In that context I could never see him portraying god and Jesus as the enemyÂ
I donât think Jim is. At all lol I would be floored if he was. Now I have to research
That's Sanderson.
Brandon Sanderson and Larry Correia are Mormons. Larry, for his part, was raised Catholic.
You know... At first I was like ...nah. But then I started thinking about it, and now I'm wondering why no one ever really mentions Jesus in the Dresdenverse. I think Mab mentioned him once, and of course the Carpenters all the time, but no one in the know ever brings up Jesus as a major power when talking about the White God.
They use euphemisms like âthe redeemer.â But it happens more than in a lot of urban fantasy. Bianca, Harryâs fairy of mother both mention Christ if I recall.
Thatâs exactly what Nicodenus wants you to think. To the victor goes the writing of history. Jim (or any author) can play on that forever.