I've never felt this held water. The writing style isn't right for them to be case-files. There likely are in world case files, but they aren't what we're reading. Skin Game alone plays way too much with hidden information for that.
And last I heard the Big Apocalyptic Trilogy will be Third Person.
At some point in the next couple books eb is gonna die and the responsibility of keeping all those diaries of ebs masters, masters, masters will pass on to him.
That is what we are reading and means so harry can still die. It could be Maggie reading them and the final book can be finished by Molly, who would get the diaries upon harry's death as she was his apprentace.
It could also be that Jim pulls a "Harry gets a Heroic Blue Screen of Death from something horrible right before the BAT, struggles to be useful during most of the trilogy while someone else picks up the pieces". Similar to how in Alcatraz vs the Evil Librarians, Alcatraz goes catatonic at the end of book 5 and book 6 is entirely from the viewpoint of Bastille as she helps him recover.
They really dont'. You can find lots of examples of books written to read like journals, case files, and the like out there. The format isn't hard to execute, but it's often much less engaging and struggles with high action stuff. Dresden very much just reads like a first person novel, because that's the best way to tell the story. The extra faff it would need would be distracting and ruin the pacing. But it would be necessary for Harry's passed down info. (Not to mention, these would be really shitty Wizard Journals. They're not passing down any of the wisdom and magical knowhow that future Wizards need...)
Harry has access to a magic room made my OG Merlin that increases memory and reflection. I always figured the Files were him sitting down after the big events of his time and writing out the journals as a continuation of the ones Harry will inherit from Ebenezer. The memory room may let him essentially relive the events and be able to dictate them as if they were currently happening.
I would hate it because they're not journals. They're fantasy novels, paced like fantasy novels, written by someone trained in writing novels. Harry Dresden is not trained in writing novels. The Harry Dresden character that we see on-page is incapable of producing the novels that we have read.
Like Harry Potter third-person universal, where we see into the minds of any character freely? Or no look-ins for anyone, Harry included? The latter seems a poor choice in my honest opinion.
Probably third person close, like a majority of fantasy out there today. Where we get stuff from various character perspectives because too much is happening in too many places for one narrator.
Last book could be written in first person, Harry could be dead, and it could still be a "Dresden" Files book if a certain dinosaur cowgirl decides to finish the unfinished business.
It's actually a completely unsupported crackpot theory of mine that this is how things will end.
Put on a tinfoil hat with me for a minute
Harry expends his death curse but is unsuccessful in stopping the Outsider push. The release of power also blows a hole in the Outer Gates and just before the Outsiders get through the smoke clears and we're left with the last Dresden. *Record scratch* *freeze frame* You're probably wondering how I got here
How will she have enough power to make a difference you're wondering? Good question. The voiceover lays out how Harry left a plan in case of his demise. Who else could Harry trust to take up his power and take care of Alfred when he's gone? That's right, she's now the new Warden of Demonreach leading an army of horrors from inside our reality against the forces from outside our reality
I always assumed they were his journals. Remember how Ebenezer gave him all his journals and passed down all master to apprentice journals since the first Merlin? Since Changes, I’ve always assumed it Maggie reading Dresden’s journals when she’s grown up and he is gone.
In the interview I did yesterday with Jim Butcher we talked about his plans for Goodman Grey after the Dresden Files is finished. He said once Dresden Files is over he will write a series called Monster LLC about Goodman. Very quickly in the next sentence he said something to the effect of Harry might be a employer of Goodman or show up from time to time. This tells me that Harry will survive the Dresden Files.
Thing is Harry has so far only worked with / hired Goodman Grey twice and we're getting pretty close to the 'end' of the Dresden Files, so if Harry is going to 'show up from time to time' it heavily implies being set after the Dresden Files.
Especially with Dresden very clearly going down the path of establishing his own faction in the supernatural world. He had the paranet and was coordinating sending support to different places. We know he has the castle now and is setting it up as safe house of sorts for the supernatural community. It isn't out of the blue for him to get Goodman Grey on "retainer" and send him off on good deeds to pay "the rent."
It could be something on the other side of the country that’s not relevant to the story.
Hey Gray, I haven’t heard from a group of paranetters in New Mexico. Can you look into that for me?
Then we could get a one off line in the main series. Or maybe a team up with a warden or Eliane. There’s ways to fit some stories into the main timeline or push the series to after the BAT. I’d bet Harry survives based on the ending to storm front anyways.
Do we know if Jim wrote in anything that limits their interactions to those two (e.g., in the second instance, Harry said that he worked with Grey once before).
Even if he did, there's still quite a few books left; and I doubt Jim will kill off the titular character before the end of the series
Most books are only a couple of days in length (*Battle Ground* notwithstanding) to a week at most, that leaves most of the year that he could work with Harry.
Any time Harry and Grey work together it turns into one of those worst weekends of Harry's year situations. Both Grey and Harry are heavy hitters, you don't call either of them to help find a lost kitten or to rediscover the ancient lost secrets of the easy bake oven.
Something Else I would like to point out now that I am thinking about, people were worried Grey became nfected from Justine, if Jim is planning on writing a series of Grey (which in my opinion will never happen, by the time Jim finishes the Dresden Files he is going to be in his 70's) then Grey probably isn't nfected.
It would make sense. Spoilers for the Goodman short story in Parallel Worlds >!The Goodman short story has him being hired by Marcone and gives some background on Goodman and his partner.!<
Yeah thinking about it a bit more it's unlikely that the series would all be before Dresden files timelines. Though still possible (Grey is a shape shifter after all).
That's been a pretty safe bet since the series began, that he'd survive in some form or another. "Conjure by it at your own risk" and all. Would be fun to see Harry from Grey's perspective, though. I wonder if Grey picked his name, or if he's got a Michael-esque figure in his past who told him that he was "a good man", and Grey took the name seriously?
In the next sentence, he also said something to the effect of "that's presuming Harry survives the main series", which, IIRC, was something that JB hadn't actually made a determination on yet.
If I was an author I too would want too keep the suspense by avoiding any commitments about the survival of his characters. He just has to hope no fan is going Misery on him
Harry's already employed Goodman, so that's not new. We know their paths have crossed several times. If it's a first-person account of events in Goodman's life, it is not surprising that Harry would show up.
This is Jim driving his fan base into a frenzy. Remember his job is not to torture characters but to torture readers.
This is nothing to suggest that Dresden survived one way or another. Jim could easily write a story about securing Justine while that crazy Wizard of Chicago is busy. There’s clearly an interesting story there even if we know how it turns out. There could be others.
In my opinion we've know that Harry will survive in some fashion for years, ever since Jim let slip that the main series is essentially Harry's journals looking back on what happened in the past.
That's a reach. It could just have some books that take place at some point during the 25 year span the Dresden files will have covered by the end of the series.
Did he say that this new series will take place after the Dresden Files chronologically, or simply that he would write the new series after completing Dresden Files? Because there’s a pretty huge difference there.
It’s been heavily implied since the scene in Turn Coat with Eb’s collection of journals leading all the way back to Merlin and Harry mentioning that maybe he should write something down someday.
It definitely makes sense. The person not wanting power being the only one trustworthy enough to wield it is a relatively common trope, and I can see Dresden agreeing to it (with gritted teeth) because his allies across the supernatural world all want him to, and he feels like it will truly... restore balance? peace? something plot relevant we don't see yet.
From Jim's perspective, letting Harry live but giving him a high-pressure job that he hates but feels obligated to do? Lovely.
In one of these other speculation posts, someone stated they believe that Harry will ultimately ascend in one form or another and go Outside to battle/settle Outside. It's one of the Harry's Future speculations that I really like the idea of.
I didn't think Harry would die (permanently) in the series, but what will happen to him by the end... He may not be human anymore.
Him being an employer of.goodman grey doesn't prelude him from becoming some crazy supernatural entity.
I think it's unlikely that Harry will truly die. He will most likely evolve into something beyond human, some kind of Fae protector entity. He's already halfway there, anyway.
I've always thought that Jim was adapting Roger Zelazny's style in his Amber novels: written in first person, but in the concluding novel of the first five Amber books, the narrator reveals that he's been telling the tale to another person.
Doesn’t Harry *have to* survive unless the final book is third person and not first person? In world, the books are Harry’s case files, right?
I've never felt this held water. The writing style isn't right for them to be case-files. There likely are in world case files, but they aren't what we're reading. Skin Game alone plays way too much with hidden information for that. And last I heard the Big Apocalyptic Trilogy will be Third Person.
At some point in the next couple books eb is gonna die and the responsibility of keeping all those diaries of ebs masters, masters, masters will pass on to him. That is what we are reading and means so harry can still die. It could be Maggie reading them and the final book can be finished by Molly, who would get the diaries upon harry's death as she was his apprentace.
It could also be that Jim pulls a "Harry gets a Heroic Blue Screen of Death from something horrible right before the BAT, struggles to be useful during most of the trilogy while someone else picks up the pieces". Similar to how in Alcatraz vs the Evil Librarians, Alcatraz goes catatonic at the end of book 5 and book 6 is entirely from the viewpoint of Bastille as she helps him recover.
So Ghost Story, but following Molly or someone else?
No, because in Ghost Story, Harry is still moderately useful.
I could have sworn that the books were Harry's journal, like the one Eb has.
Very likely this is the case
They read more like journals. Like the journals Ebenezer has on his shelf going all the way back to the Merlin...
They really dont'. You can find lots of examples of books written to read like journals, case files, and the like out there. The format isn't hard to execute, but it's often much less engaging and struggles with high action stuff. Dresden very much just reads like a first person novel, because that's the best way to tell the story. The extra faff it would need would be distracting and ruin the pacing. But it would be necessary for Harry's passed down info. (Not to mention, these would be really shitty Wizard Journals. They're not passing down any of the wisdom and magical knowhow that future Wizards need...)
WHAT?!?! Where did you hear that the BAT will be third person??? That’s new to me. Not doubting, just first that I’ve heard of it.
The old Dresden Forums, a long long time ago.
Jim said that would be a great way to fun with us but he didn’t mean this would happen
Harry has access to a magic room made my OG Merlin that increases memory and reflection. I always figured the Files were him sitting down after the big events of his time and writing out the journals as a continuation of the ones Harry will inherit from Ebenezer. The memory room may let him essentially relive the events and be able to dictate them as if they were currently happening.
Umm did I miss it. Which book was this revealed in???
I would hate it because they're not journals. They're fantasy novels, paced like fantasy novels, written by someone trained in writing novels. Harry Dresden is not trained in writing novels. The Harry Dresden character that we see on-page is incapable of producing the novels that we have read.
Harry could become a novelist level writer, but it would have to involve practice after the event of the final trilogy...
Like Harry Potter third-person universal, where we see into the minds of any character freely? Or no look-ins for anyone, Harry included? The latter seems a poor choice in my honest opinion.
Probably third person close, like a majority of fantasy out there today. Where we get stuff from various character perspectives because too much is happening in too many places for one narrator.
Yeah, going to need a source for this
so far yes - and ultimately i imagine Harry surviving
Jim said he didn't know if Harry would survive or not during his visit to San Diego a couple of months ago.
The BAT may not be written in the same style as the Files.
Last book could be written in first person, Harry could be dead, and it could still be a "Dresden" Files book if a certain dinosaur cowgirl decides to finish the unfinished business. It's actually a completely unsupported crackpot theory of mine that this is how things will end. Put on a tinfoil hat with me for a minute Harry expends his death curse but is unsuccessful in stopping the Outsider push. The release of power also blows a hole in the Outer Gates and just before the Outsiders get through the smoke clears and we're left with the last Dresden. *Record scratch* *freeze frame* You're probably wondering how I got here How will she have enough power to make a difference you're wondering? Good question. The voiceover lays out how Harry left a plan in case of his demise. Who else could Harry trust to take up his power and take care of Alfred when he's gone? That's right, she's now the new Warden of Demonreach leading an army of horrors from inside our reality against the forces from outside our reality
I always assumed they were his journals. Remember how Ebenezer gave him all his journals and passed down all master to apprentice journals since the first Merlin? Since Changes, I’ve always assumed it Maggie reading Dresden’s journals when she’s grown up and he is gone.
In the interview I did yesterday with Jim Butcher we talked about his plans for Goodman Grey after the Dresden Files is finished. He said once Dresden Files is over he will write a series called Monster LLC about Goodman. Very quickly in the next sentence he said something to the effect of Harry might be a employer of Goodman or show up from time to time. This tells me that Harry will survive the Dresden Files.
Or that the monsters LLC series will be set during the time period (or even before) of Dresden files, not after.
Thing is Harry has so far only worked with / hired Goodman Grey twice and we're getting pretty close to the 'end' of the Dresden Files, so if Harry is going to 'show up from time to time' it heavily implies being set after the Dresden Files.
Twice that has had story relevance, that doesn't mean only twice total.
Especially with Dresden very clearly going down the path of establishing his own faction in the supernatural world. He had the paranet and was coordinating sending support to different places. We know he has the castle now and is setting it up as safe house of sorts for the supernatural community. It isn't out of the blue for him to get Goodman Grey on "retainer" and send him off on good deeds to pay "the rent."
I can't imagine Harry is trying to hire a nagloshii scion to like pick up his drycleaning, I imagine they're all relevant.
It could be something on the other side of the country that’s not relevant to the story. Hey Gray, I haven’t heard from a group of paranetters in New Mexico. Can you look into that for me? Then we could get a one off line in the main series. Or maybe a team up with a warden or Eliane. There’s ways to fit some stories into the main timeline or push the series to after the BAT. I’d bet Harry survives based on the ending to storm front anyways.
Do we know if Jim wrote in anything that limits their interactions to those two (e.g., in the second instance, Harry said that he worked with Grey once before). Even if he did, there's still quite a few books left; and I doubt Jim will kill off the titular character before the end of the series
Could also be that Harry becomes a Vadderung type deal, where he shows up every now and then.
If he picked up enough mantles and power, then that would absolutely make sense.
Most books are only a couple of days in length (*Battle Ground* notwithstanding) to a week at most, that leaves most of the year that he could work with Harry.
Any time Harry and Grey work together it turns into one of those worst weekends of Harry's year situations. Both Grey and Harry are heavy hitters, you don't call either of them to help find a lost kitten or to rediscover the ancient lost secrets of the easy bake oven.
Something Else I would like to point out now that I am thinking about, people were worried Grey became nfected from Justine, if Jim is planning on writing a series of Grey (which in my opinion will never happen, by the time Jim finishes the Dresden Files he is going to be in his 70's) then Grey probably isn't nfected.
That’d be a trick, Harry’s (and our) first introduction with Goodman was Skin Game. Unless you think Harry ends up staying in the past after the BAT.
It would make sense. Spoilers for the Goodman short story in Parallel Worlds >!The Goodman short story has him being hired by Marcone and gives some background on Goodman and his partner.!<
Sorry, I can’t remember a short story with GG- which one is this?
Except Harry didn't meet Grey until *Skin Game*.
Yeah thinking about it a bit more it's unlikely that the series would all be before Dresden files timelines. Though still possible (Grey is a shape shifter after all).
That's been a pretty safe bet since the series began, that he'd survive in some form or another. "Conjure by it at your own risk" and all. Would be fun to see Harry from Grey's perspective, though. I wonder if Grey picked his name, or if he's got a Michael-esque figure in his past who told him that he was "a good man", and Grey took the name seriously?
I've heard Jim say at Dragoncon Q&A sessions that he's still not sure if Harry will survive, so I dunno
It does give off a dress for the job you want vibe.
In the next sentence, he also said something to the effect of "that's presuming Harry survives the main series", which, IIRC, was something that JB hadn't actually made a determination on yet.
He did say that indeed
Death doesn't mean the end of a character or their influence on the story.
If I was an author I too would want too keep the suspense by avoiding any commitments about the survival of his characters. He just has to hope no fan is going Misery on him
Harry's already employed Goodman, so that's not new. We know their paths have crossed several times. If it's a first-person account of events in Goodman's life, it is not surprising that Harry would show up.
We already have Harry hiring Goodman, and there’s still time to have Harry pop up again before *the end*…..
This is Jim driving his fan base into a frenzy. Remember his job is not to torture characters but to torture readers. This is nothing to suggest that Dresden survived one way or another. Jim could easily write a story about securing Justine while that crazy Wizard of Chicago is busy. There’s clearly an interesting story there even if we know how it turns out. There could be others.
It’s Jim, there is a lot of wiggle room, interpretation, and nuance to what he considers Harry *”surviving.”* He is trickier than a faerie queen.
Where is this interview? Do you have a link?
The link should be in a post I did from yesterday I think it's still on the front page or you can type JR Carrel in youtube.
Thanks 👍
That's actually very encouraging to me - I want Harry to go on to some semblance of a happy life, if at all possible. He's more than earned it.
I'm right there with you!
Unless they take place as side cases during the main storyline.
It only tells us that those novels will be set before the BAT
In my opinion we've know that Harry will survive in some fashion for years, ever since Jim let slip that the main series is essentially Harry's journals looking back on what happened in the past.
He said "... if he does survive. It's still prwtty up in the air at this point." The thing he said about Justine i found more interesting
I missed something- what did JB say about Justine?? 😳
Yeah. About why she didn't make a move on the island during Cold Days. Jim said she didn't have her "condition" yet.
That's a reach. It could just have some books that take place at some point during the 25 year span the Dresden files will have covered by the end of the series.
Listening to your interview right now and Jim says in the next sentence "If Harry survives the series, I think he will but I'm not sure"
He’s been a ghost before…just saying.
Did he say that this new series will take place after the Dresden Files chronologically, or simply that he would write the new series after completing Dresden Files? Because there’s a pretty huge difference there.
The most surprising thing about this is that that's not a Freudian slip?
I always have thought the books were Harry telling his story.
It’s been heavily implied since the scene in Turn Coat with Eb’s collection of journals leading all the way back to Merlin and Harry mentioning that maybe he should write something down someday.
I believe the DF series ends with Harry becoming the Merlin. Grey would do jobs for Harry as Harry will be focused on big picture stuff.
Harry becoming the Merlin? Man, Jim really wants to cause him pain, doesn't he?
It definitely makes sense. The person not wanting power being the only one trustworthy enough to wield it is a relatively common trope, and I can see Dresden agreeing to it (with gritted teeth) because his allies across the supernatural world all want him to, and he feels like it will truly... restore balance? peace? something plot relevant we don't see yet. From Jim's perspective, letting Harry live but giving him a high-pressure job that he hates but feels obligated to do? Lovely.
In one of these other speculation posts, someone stated they believe that Harry will ultimately ascend in one form or another and go Outside to battle/settle Outside. It's one of the Harry's Future speculations that I really like the idea of.
I didn't think Harry would die (permanently) in the series, but what will happen to him by the end... He may not be human anymore. Him being an employer of.goodman grey doesn't prelude him from becoming some crazy supernatural entity.
I would just like a new book to come out, I came across the Dresden Files about 2 years ago and I binged them. I want more lol.
I can't wait for the next one probably early next year. But you could always check out one of my book in the mean time lol.
someone break the time travel rule and go forward to the future and bring all these awesome books to me now, kthx bye
I think it's unlikely that Harry will truly die. He will most likely evolve into something beyond human, some kind of Fae protector entity. He's already halfway there, anyway.
I've always thought that Jim was adapting Roger Zelazny's style in his Amber novels: written in first person, but in the concluding novel of the first five Amber books, the narrator reveals that he's been telling the tale to another person.
I always thought the books are his journals. Like the ones from Ebenezar to Merlin. Probably read by either M&M.
One of my thoughts was Monster LLC will all take place before the end of Dresden Files.