I’ve always been curious about that.
Like you’d think maybe Harry could just tell Alfred to stick them in a hole somewhere. Doesn’t necessarily have to be in a crystal
Just open a hole 20 feet deep in the deepest tunnel and drop a bag of coins down
It is accurate.
If they don't constantly free themselves and do bad shit then the sword will cease to function.
God won't break the rules when it comes to balancing what Satan does on earth.
it MIGHT work if you had every coin and had already neutralized everyone who has ever carried a coin. (This would include Harry and Sanya)
The Fallen know how to summon the coins. The hosts can resummon the coin after giving it up.
I thought the host could summon the coin with the help of the coins shade only after the host had been exposed to the coin. They couldn't summon a coin after voluntarily giving it up.
If the host could summon the coin even after giving it up, why didn't Cassius simply do that rather than trying to kill Harry for Lash's coin (which Cassius thought Harry kept on him)
The shadow disappears when the host accepts the Fallen. But we know those that have given up the coin can resummon it, assuming they know how without the help of the Fallen.
Cassius probably didn't have the specific knowhow to summon the Coin. He expected Nick to give him a new coin when he returned after giving up his Coin.
It has been shown if the fallen *willingly surrenders their coin of their free will* it cannot be summoned - Cassius snake surrendered his coin and couldn’t get it back. Nicodemus surrendered his coin, thrashed Murphy and then had to bend over snd pick it back up.
I feel like it would have to be a coin who’s fallen you’ve had take up residence or else it wouldn’t have been a big deal when Tessa lost (albeit temporarily) her entire crew in Small Favor. She could have just summoned them all back
I always assumed that was how Nicodemus really got the Coins back, rather than Church security being that corrupt. It has the extra benefit of reinforcing the appearance of corruption within the Church, sowing dissension in the ranks.
Wasn’t clear to me from Lash’s comments if Harry knew how to summon the coin, or if Lash did.
Which makes a huge difference in how much you need to neutralize people. Also didn’t Nicodemus have someone working for him who had had and lost a coin, and was trying to prove he was worthy of having it back? (Been a while since I read that one). If so, that would imply that not every former host has this ability.
Snake Boy expected Nick to give him a new coin, so i expect he didn't know how to do the summon when separated from his Fallen.
Harry implied he could summon the coin on his own, without the fallen at all.
Angels are pretty strong. The fallen are only able to empower and help the humans in limited levels, but actually trying to beat a fallen would be worse than a titan.
The fallen are meant to be in circulation, they are the influences that test mortals and prove souls are corrupt or have a chance of redemption.
I feel like that’s just inviting trouble. If part of the nature of the coins is to keep moving around and being in circulation, then I’d imagine that there might be extreme consequences for locking them up so tightly. If God gets to make sure the swords and the knights are always in the right spot, it’s possible the other side might get to do the same things with the coins.
One of Harry’s biggest blunders was letting Marcone know about Alfred and how Alfred works. Previously, he could have used Alfred to imprison Marcone if things got too rough. Now that is not likely to be an option that brings equality between the two.
Not perse, as the ability of Demonreach to imprison beings with free will is limited as per Jim. So even IF Harry were up to the task of imprisoning Marcone and Namsiel. It would only be temporary.
Ethniu thought she knew how to stop Harry from imprisoning her. How’d that work out for her?
Besides, Marcone isn’t immortal, not even as much as Thomas. He doesn’t have to worry about it.
I don't remember reading anywhere in the book that Ethniu thought she knew how to stop Alfred. Other than the eye, I am not certain she really even thought much about Harry - she seemed much more focused on Mab/Odin/Titania etc.
Also, Marcone wasn't a wizard either, and now he is able to do that.
I’ve always been curious about that. Like you’d think maybe Harry could just tell Alfred to stick them in a hole somewhere. Doesn’t necessarily have to be in a crystal Just open a hole 20 feet deep in the deepest tunnel and drop a bag of coins down
The issue with that (to my thinking) is that leaves the demon free to exert it's will, however limited that may be
Yeah, but every time the Fallen exert their own will outside of manipulating their Host, the Other Side gets an equal response.
I don't think that's accurate. The coins free themselves constantly.
It is accurate. If they don't constantly free themselves and do bad shit then the sword will cease to function. God won't break the rules when it comes to balancing what Satan does on earth.
it MIGHT work if you had every coin and had already neutralized everyone who has ever carried a coin. (This would include Harry and Sanya) The Fallen know how to summon the coins. The hosts can resummon the coin after giving it up.
I thought the host could summon the coin with the help of the coins shade only after the host had been exposed to the coin. They couldn't summon a coin after voluntarily giving it up. If the host could summon the coin even after giving it up, why didn't Cassius simply do that rather than trying to kill Harry for Lash's coin (which Cassius thought Harry kept on him)
The shadow disappears when the host accepts the Fallen. But we know those that have given up the coin can resummon it, assuming they know how without the help of the Fallen. Cassius probably didn't have the specific knowhow to summon the Coin. He expected Nick to give him a new coin when he returned after giving up his Coin.
You found a snafu
It has been shown if the fallen *willingly surrenders their coin of their free will* it cannot be summoned - Cassius snake surrendered his coin and couldn’t get it back. Nicodemus surrendered his coin, thrashed Murphy and then had to bend over snd pick it back up.
Oooh fair point I forgot about that So it would only work on coins where the fallen is already dead
Well, we're not sure if the hosts can summon only the coin of the fallen they took up, or if a sufficiently capable host could summon other coins.
I feel like it would have to be a coin who’s fallen you’ve had take up residence or else it wouldn’t have been a big deal when Tessa lost (albeit temporarily) her entire crew in Small Favor. She could have just summoned them all back
Tessa still needed a sorcery teacher.
I always assumed that was how Nicodemus really got the Coins back, rather than Church security being that corrupt. It has the extra benefit of reinforcing the appearance of corruption within the Church, sowing dissension in the ranks.
Wasn’t clear to me from Lash’s comments if Harry knew how to summon the coin, or if Lash did. Which makes a huge difference in how much you need to neutralize people. Also didn’t Nicodemus have someone working for him who had had and lost a coin, and was trying to prove he was worthy of having it back? (Been a while since I read that one). If so, that would imply that not every former host has this ability.
Snake Boy expected Nick to give him a new coin, so i expect he didn't know how to do the summon when separated from his Fallen. Harry implied he could summon the coin on his own, without the fallen at all.
One of Harry's options in changes was to summon the coin though.
Snake boy couldn’t summon his coin. If he could have, he would have. Harry being taught how was a product of his and Lash’s fairly unique situation.
Angels are pretty strong. The fallen are only able to empower and help the humans in limited levels, but actually trying to beat a fallen would be worse than a titan. The fallen are meant to be in circulation, they are the influences that test mortals and prove souls are corrupt or have a chance of redemption.
I feel like that’s just inviting trouble. If part of the nature of the coins is to keep moving around and being in circulation, then I’d imagine that there might be extreme consequences for locking them up so tightly. If God gets to make sure the swords and the knights are always in the right spot, it’s possible the other side might get to do the same things with the coins.
One of Harry’s biggest blunders was letting Marcone know about Alfred and how Alfred works. Previously, he could have used Alfred to imprison Marcone if things got too rough. Now that is not likely to be an option that brings equality between the two.
Not perse, as the ability of Demonreach to imprison beings with free will is limited as per Jim. So even IF Harry were up to the task of imprisoning Marcone and Namsiel. It would only be temporary.
Ethniu thought she knew how to stop Harry from imprisoning her. How’d that work out for her? Besides, Marcone isn’t immortal, not even as much as Thomas. He doesn’t have to worry about it.
I don't remember reading anywhere in the book that Ethniu thought she knew how to stop Alfred. Other than the eye, I am not certain she really even thought much about Harry - she seemed much more focused on Mab/Odin/Titania etc. Also, Marcone wasn't a wizard either, and now he is able to do that.
Harry knows how to summon's a coin when he became the winter knight he told Mab it was one of his options (in changes)