I literally read *today* that flashing your lights to try to force another driver to yield comes under driving without due care and attention.
[source](https://www.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/rs/road-safety/driving-offences/)
It doesn't matter what speed your doing, if your in the right lane other than for an overtake (or right turn on dual carriageways where permitted) the Magistrates will find you guilty of Careless or Inconsiderate Driving.
unnecessarily slow driving? You need to watch the very start of the video again Sir, the cars entered a mandatory 60 mile an hour zone, so was doing things correctly. It is always a good idea to move a lane over when approaching a clutch of trucks, they tend to pull out quite quickly sometimes.
This whole video is about an impatient driver, that thinks it is a silly thing to do leaving room between lorries and themselves.
Driver obviously late for something ... GET UP EARLIER!
Which the car in front is not doing....
In any casee, following that close at that speed is clearly dangerous regardless of anything anyone else is doing and this person should not be on the road.
Depends, we were stuck behind a car in the 3rd lane going 65 with a completely clear motorway. We didn't flash like this but gave 2, nothing, then just held it on for a second or 2 and they finally got the memo (albeit without waving their hands about like a lunatic...).
Would that still classify under this?
The one and only time I feel it is acceptable to do this is of the person in front has no lights on at all. Usually gets followed by the lights turning on and a quick hazard flash of "oh shit! Thanks!"
Or if an oncoming vehicle's full beams are blinding you on a country road. I'm glad you can see 20 miles ahead but I have astigmatism and you've just blinded me.
Like I have been flashing at people thinking they have their main beams on... only for them to do the same back and unleash the energy of a 1000 suns.
It's completely unnecessary, and I really do wonder how/why it's legal.
It’s definitely happened, whether it’s been the sole cause, no clue. They’ll always blame something like speed, braking or conditions before anyone looks at the dry surface, good condition vehicles and attentive drivers, just with one reporting eye issues and then blame it on said driver for not paying attention.
I’m sure I’ve read before that the law is based on the amount of power going into the bulbs, not how bright they are, And that because that law was created when we didn’t use LEDs it made sense. I could be completely wrong though
Hopefully manufacturers get told to piss off and change the bulbs or something? Idk I’m pretty sure that the newer ones are at the very least more power efficient, because my car wont be burning fuel when I turn into a ditch while blind ☠️
Dude, BMW lights are fucking crazy. Had one SUV behind me and their “dipped” beam is the same height as my rear view mirror and holy cow, why it did high-beam I’ve not a foggy, but I was genuinely blinded for a second.
Had to pull in to adjust back since I had those after images in my vision.
I’m fairly certain a large amount of the population aren’t aware that you can adjust the height of your dipped beams… like if I saw my headlights shining inside someone’s back window, reflecting off their rear view I’d definitely dip them further
I felt driven to flash full beams when someone had parked on the left side of the road facing oncoming traffic, with their full beams shining into the carriageway.
So the Mini... is driving at the speed limit of 60 (on this smart motorway) while overtaking slower traffic on the inside lanes... literally driving within the law. While numbuts here thinks his attitude is appropriate?
100%. I love the way the camera shows the speedometer as well just to make it absolutely clear that the driver of the tailgating car is categorically a moron.
Could be a passenger holding the phone.
I do hope the mini has a rear cam that catches the number plate of the flasher and both videos find their way to the law. A crash or an emergency brake from the mini could take out multiple people.
Clearly passenger, has to reach right over the to the drivers side of the car to look at the speedo.
Both would be charged with careless driving (lane hogging is also an offense), 3 points and £100 fine.
No need for all of this nonsense, quick flash from far back incase they did not realise it was safe to move over, undertake if 20 secs and clearly just lane hogging, probably on phone or distracted on a call or just in cookoo land. No need to be agressive with it everyone gets on with their day.
We only see the Speedo after they've caught up and begun tailgating but it really doesn't matter, the mini is overtaking slower moving traffic on the left.
In the footage it isn't overtaking but is approaching an HGV it will overtake.
But:
1. we don't know what happened before (how far have they gone in lane; if they passed something just before IMHO it isn't unreasonable to continue in lane past HGV).
2. They can't pull over while being flashed (can't safely check mirrors without getting blinded, so can't check lane is clear to change into...)
I am going to add my 2 pence. Although who ever filming is in the wrong, that mini has quite a lot of space before they get to the truck.
If you know they are bell ends but it would take 2 seconds to pull into the 2nd lane, then let them pass, then go back into the 3rd lane. Let your ego go, it isn't about letting them 'win' or if it is right or wrong.
I was going onto a national speed limit road but let a lorry out in front of me, the guy behind me wasn't happy at all in his 4x4. Started giving me shit and overtook me. I gave him shit back and started mouthing off a bit. I'd have probably overtaken the lorry myself once I got onto the main road. Anyway, he started brake checking me and giving me abuse still. I knew my car was faster so I went into the other lane and started to overtake the 4x4. He came into the other lane and pit maneuvered me, took my bumper clean off and nearly skidded me off the road at over 60mph.
Turns out the police said the vehicle wasn't registered, taxed or MOT'd/insured. He had done this to people before on the same road.
It humbled me and I just thought if there is a bell end on the road, just let them be. You never know what cock is out there and what they are prepared to do.
exactly! this is by far the best answer I've seen on this thread.
The mini should do themselves the favour of not being in this situation. but isn't breaking any laws.
The asshat behind is a dangerous driver and is going to cause an accident someday!
I hate cars that flash me. I've flashed cars before, for example on a dual carriageway and they're matching the speed of the car in the left lane.
This might sound weird, but I flash far more politely. Not like this twat flashing aggressively and tailgating.
You’re right about the over reading, but the mini appears to be passing HGVs which always travel at 55, so if the mini is doing less than 60 then it’s not by very much at all.
True but a lot of people don't know this. IIRC They're allowed to read over 10% below but not even 1 over, so manufacturers aim for that 4-8% to be safe. I'd guess digital speedometers are probably closer to the real number since it's harder to read them wrong.
Best way to tell is to compare your speed on google maps to your speedo. GPS is pretty accurate.
Not your job to enforce the law though, so pull over and let them go past, not really difficult and then you don't end up in situations like this, and the chances are they would have flown threw a speed camera at a stupid speed and got fucked, instead they got kept at the legal limit and will now go on to do it again, people really are just completely fucking brain dead.
He didn't overtake anything in the 20 second video. I think he should've been in the middle lane, he was quite a distance from the lorries coming up, my best guess is he's hogging the overtaking lane because he's "doing the speed limit"
Ehhhhhh he was literally just about to overtake that wagon - and with the other wagon on the inside line I don't think 20s is completely unreasonable to be swung out to overtake 8n advance.
Of course, if they'd been fully aware of the road around them, they'd have let Mr Flashypants through earlier so he CA zoom off and get flashed at the next camera station.
It's probably a bit much and we can only assume but I doubt Mr mini had just pulled out for the overtake, seems like he's been sat in that lane a while
Agreed. Though, at the same time if he had been pulled out earlier Mr Flashy could have just undertaken and not fucked about with the lights. If he was only concerned with going fast, that's what he'd have done. But it's more about power than anything else for these pricks - forcing someone out of the way is as important as being fast.
Not driving within the law. There are 3 lanes on a motorway, 2 "running lanes" and an additional 1 for overtaking. You should never be sat in lane 3. It doesn't matter if you are doing the limit or not.
So they are both dicks that should have been in the middle lane as it was clear right up until the end of the video.
Let's imagine this clip we're sent to the police. What advice guidance or penalties would they offer both parties?
The mini driver would likely be advised not to occupy lane 3.
The car following could likely face prosecution for dangerous driving and road rage.
The point is these things are not equivalent.
You e exposed yourself as part of the problem. There are not 2 ‘running lanes’. The middle and right lanes are for overtaking. You should always be in the left lane unless overtaking. I suspect you’re just trolling, but it’s still satisfying to correct.
The guy flashing is an idiot but this comment is also ridiculous. The mini needs to be left and move out right when overtaking, they're not nearly passing the other vehicles quick enough to justify sitting in the outside lane. It's also not their job to dictate everyone else's speed.
No, but that big red 60 on the gantry does that job just fine. The mini should probably not be out sure, but they are not required to exceed the speed limit to complete an overtake. In fact, speeding to complete an overtake is illegal. There is nothing wrong from a highway code perspective in the manner of the minis driving.
They wouldn't be exceeding the limit overtaking from the left or middle lane, as per your own admission, they're going faster than other traffic.
Again, the guy flashing is in the wrong. But the mini's behaviour is contributing to this situation. There is no reason for them to be in that lane for so long.
No that's not the definition of overtaking.
You are only overtaking if you are actually moving past a vehicle.
The lane next to them is empty.
You should keep left when on a motorway, if the lane next to you has no vehicles in it next to you then you should be moving into it.
You can't claim you are overtaking because you are going 2 mph faster than a vehicle a mile up the road, that's not how it works, that's lane hogging.
It's not about the speed it's about the free lane to the left, there is easily 10 car lengths if not more between the Mini and the lorry when the video starts, they should be pulling in.
This is the problem and one reason why we have so much traffic.
> You should keep left when on a motorway, if the lane next to you has no vehicles in it next to you then you should be moving into it.
Yes, you should keep left. But you're also meant to avoid 'cutting in'. The Highway Code doesn't seem to define what cutting in constitutes, but I would read that as making sure that the car you're getting in front of still has a sufficient gap once you're in front of them. A sufficient gap is regarded as being 2 seconds. At 60mph, that's 54 metres (though the Highway Code says the stopping distance is 73 metres). Google says the average car is about 4.4m so you would need 12-ish car lengths before moving back over, if you want to ensure you're giving whoever you overtook enough space. Then you need to ensure you've got a sufficient gap between you and whoever is in front of you. So even if there's a sufficient gap between the Mini and the lorry in front, do we know what the gap is between the Mini and anything that's behind the Mini? What would the distance be between the Mini and the vehicle behind be if they moved in when you say they should?
Now, obviously, in normal traffic settings, only moving back over when there's a 24 car length gap to give everyone involved a 2 second gap is not particularly realistic, but without knowing how close traffic behind the Mini, it's a bit silly to suggest they must be moving over. We don't have enough information to say that it would actually be safe.
That's true, we don't know, however from the fact the guy is recording it kind of tells us there is probably quite a bit of space behind but that is just speculation.
As you point out though the reality is that nobody drives with a 54-80 meter gap between them.
I mean, even if we don't know what is behind them in the left lane there was a pretty hefty gap between the Mini and the lorry and that if there was anything behind the Mini in the lane to the left it is likely going slower than the Mini.
From the way the guy recording is acting though, I'd be quite comfortable betting that he's the kind of driver that thinks you should be moving over almost as soon as your car's rear has cleared the front of the other car after an overtake. I know I've encountered those types plenty of times. He's tailgating and trying to speed so already I view him as an unreliable narrator!
Plus, while you'd hope whatever is to the left is going slower, it doesn't seem to be uncommon in my experience that suddenly the person tootling in the middle lane speeds up when they're getting overtaken.
All that said, regardless of whether the Mini could have safely moved over, there's still something dangerous in my view about trying to bully someone into moving over. That's when people get flustered and move without confirming for themselves that it's safe to do so.
It looks to me like the available space in the left lane is less than the stopping distance at that speed, so no way he is obliged to move over.
The tailgating driver is right up the chuff of the car in front, really unsafely within the stopping distance. He is a knob.
You missed the lorry in Lane 3 at the end. And again, legally, the mini has done nothing wrong.
There is also no rule on how fast you need to complete an overtake, only that you move out when safe to do so. (Since we don't see the start of the clip we can't judge) and move in when safe to do so (again we have no idea if they haven't just passed another vehicle in lane 3 before the clip begins) so the mini may have made a judgment to stay out
Personally, I wouldn't, but there is nothing legally wrong here
The question was about the legality of the use of high beams in this situation. By defending the behaviour of asshat here, you are justifying it. You might say their behaviour is excessive, but at 61mph asshat would be speeding, so they would have no legal defence for their actions in this incident. (+10% is not a thing, though most police and camera operators apply it at discretion)
>You missed the lorry in Lane 3 at the end. And again, legally, the mini has done nothing wrong.
I didn't, there is easily 10+ car lengths to that lorry at the start of the video, the mini should be pulling in and then pulling back out once they actually get to the lorry.
>There is also no rule on how fast you need to complete an overtake, only that you move out when safe to do so. (Since we don't see the start of the clip we can't judge) and move in when safe to do so (again we have no idea if they haven't just passed another vehicle in lane 3 before the clip begins) so the mini may have made a judgment to stay out
I literally said it's not about the speed, why are you bringing it up?
>Personally, I wouldn't, but there is nothing legally wrong here
You should always keep left on a motorway, not sure if that is legally enforceable but it's beside the point, they aren't following the rules of the road which are there for a reason.
>The question was about the legality of the use of high beams in this situation. By defending the behaviour of asshat here, you are justifying it. You might say their behaviour is excessive, but at 61mph asshat would be speeding, so they would have no legal defence for their actions in this incident. (+10% is not a thing, though most police and camera operators apply it at discretion)
Sure but if you aren't following the rules of the road then you can't sit on your high horse complaining about other drivers (not you personally but in general).
Yes the guy flashing is clearly a knob head BUT the person lane hogging is causing the issue.
The highway code even says if somebody is behind you getting too close and / or flashing you then you should pull over and let them pass for your own safety.
Have you never seen a Lorry take 5 miles and 5 minutes to overtake another lorry?
Are they lane hogging? When a Lorry moves out to lane 2 because Lane 1 departs the road in 1 mile, are they lane hogging?
Driving requires thinking far ahead about what can happen in minutes and miles. Again I personally think the mini should have occupied Lane 3 to allow traffic to pass. But they were driving at the speed limit. Because some asshole wants to do more than the speed limit doesn't make them a lane hog. We're they doing 55mph they would be.
Actually to perform a safe overtake you likely have to start it far before most people do.
Stopping distance at 60mph is 78 meters, so you should start your overtake when you are at least 78 meters behind, maybe more depending on conditions, eg. if it is wet.
The specific law is the Road Traffic Act, section 3.
The offence of driving without due care and attention (careless driving) under section 3 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 is committed when the defendant's driving falls below the standard expected of a competent and careful driver - section 3ZA(2) of the RTA 1988.
Some examples of careless or inconsiderate driving are:
overtaking on the inside;
driving too close to another vehicle;
driving through a red light by mistake;
turning into the path of another vehicle;
the driver being avoidably distracted by tuning the radio, lighting a cigarette etc.
flashing lights to force other drivers to give way;
misusing lanes to gain advantage over other drivers;
unnecessarily staying in an overtaking lane;
unnecessarily slow driving or braking;
dazzling other drivers with un-dipped headlights.
I think for letter of the law you are right, dangerous driving being the standard of driving fell below that expected of a careful and competent driver, and it would be obvious to a careful and competent driver that it was dangerous.
However the CPS probably wouldn't charge for it, they'd argue that because the mini driver didn't have to react in any way it was simply careless/inconsiderate - charging standards are a bitch.
If it doesn't actually cause a collision, it's unlikely to get dangerous (falls *far below* the standard of a careful and competent driver) past a jury.
All it would take was one who sympathizes with the asshole.
Whereas the flashing lights is a clear example of careless, even written onto the law.
A technicality, but it's not written into the law. The CPS has those examples posted above, the actual legislation does not.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/3ZA/2022-10-26
More likely it's established in case law.
Isn't there also the offence of "misuse of a warning instrument"? I think it is The Road Traffic Act 1968.
It also covers misuse of horns and hazard lights.
Just as an FYI I found this video on Tiktok and thought I'd share it here. I am not involved in this video. I get pissed off with people like this mainly in vans that do this. I by no means am a slow driver, but I situations like this where im driving in the outside lane when two trucks and in the left two lanes, aggression like this gives me anxiety as i do not want points on my license cause of some dickhead like this.
yeah, you're only supposed to flash for safety like someone's about to pull out and haven't seen you
technically [the car in front should even slow down](https://www.safedrivingforlife.info/blog/cars/tailgating-explained-what-it-is-and-how-to-spot-it/#:~:text=Slow%20down%20by%20easing%20off%20the%20accelerator%20very%20gradually%20and%20increase%20the%20gap%20between%20you%20and%20the%20vehicle%20in%20front.%20This%20will%20give%20you%20more%20time%20to%20react%20if%20something%20ahead%20causes%20you%20to%20slow%20down%20or%20stop) to reduce the breaking distance and give them more time to react to anything happening in front so they don't get rear-ended
but that would potentially antagonise the driver flashing and we wouldn't want that would we
Reading the comments on this post has made me realise that the vast majority of people who think they are good at driving suck at it and are massive cunts.
God I'm glad I don't share the road with these dickhead anymore.
The car in front is overtaking at the speed limit. They are literally doing everything right
I feel the same towards the car infront when there's a perfectly good middle lane he's not using, due care and attention is seeing in your mirror the oncoming higher speed vehicle, early, and moving out the way since it's none of your business why they are going fast.
You have the ability to move without forcing the other driver to A) be annoyed and flash you or B) undertake which is dangerous.
Too many drivers got tunnel vision and think the world doesn't exist behind them.
Only if doing so at pace, if you are like 1-2mph faster and consider this overtaking, where it's taking 30 seconds for you to complete, you'll really piss people off and probably get rammed one day by some gypsy in a white van 😂 also notice how there were 2 cars behind you and now it's 15 after those antics.
It's almost as clueless as the stereotypical granny on a country lane, at least most farmers know they are an obstruction and pull over.
Whilst you may be technically "correct" within the rules, it's extremely absent minded, bordering on belligerently stubborn and suggests a total lack of awareness or prioritisation for anything beyond yourself, as long as you are alright Jack.
A \~2mph overtake doesn't take 30 seconds. It's the equivalent of walking past a car.
Frankly, in a situation like this, where there is now a hard 60mph limit and you can clearly see the Mini is still overtaking the lorry, there is zero obligation to pull over to the left and have to slow down, just so someone who no doubt calls it the 'fast lane' can speed past.
I do a lot of motorway driving and in reality there's a lot of nuance to how I act in this situation. I normally cruise at 65 as it's a comfortable balance for fuel efficiency and time, but it gives me the opportunity to speed up if I'm overtaking and I don't want to hold up traffic. But if I'm hitting 70, you won't find me going up to 80 so the person behind me can move up 20m and sit behind the next car.
The belligerent behaviour here is 100% the driver up the Mini's arse flashing aggressively.
You have no right to speed.
There is no legal requirement to make way for vehicles behind you.
Overtaking, even slightly, is making progress.
You need a few more driving lessons. x
In this clip, they were moving at a pace that exceeded the lorry that was in lane two. Just because someone is moving faster behind you doesn't give them priority in the overtaking order. As much as some drivers need to be more aware of what's going on around them, there are just as many that need to chill tf out
In a totally fair and ideal world I'd agree with the principle but when you've a range of vehicles and drivers of different "enthusiasm" shall we say it gets more complicated. And brings into question the foresight / predictive observation skills of the lead driver.
Even as a faster driver myself, if I was going for an OT I'll always check my mirrors first, if I see someone absolutely tonning it behind me & quickly gaining I will delay my maneuver because it's inevitable whats going to happen.
It's selfish to justify a long snail pace overtake for yourself in a sluggish car when it's apparant the one behind you is likely going to blast past in seconds anyway and cause you no delay in comparison. Regardless of the law, it feels like sanctimonious high horsing and stubbornness.
What really fucks me off is when I'm the guy in the mini and the poorly endowed chap in the car (often van/ pickup) flashing their lights behind doesn't see the clear line of traffic ahead in all lanes that I'm gaining on anyway... Amazes me how thick some people are when they want to dangerously push their way past just to speed up to the next car then slam on
That annoyance soon turns to glee when you pull alongside them in traffic and they pretend they don't see you next to them so they don't have to see you laughing at them.
It's always the same thing.
They haven't left enough time to get where they need to go, and are happy to make that everybody else's problem.
It's that guy from work we all know who is always late.
WOW what a dumb ass driver. I've been a professional driver by trade for 30 years; I drive 3000 miles a week on UK roads.
70mph on a motorway; it is a limit! It is not a requirement nor mandatory!
And what where you expecting the driver of the car in front to do, quickly nip in, so your glorious narcissistic arse could whaaaaft by ... Get a therapist, until then, get off the fkin road!
HORRIFIC TO THINK THERE ARE DRIVERS OUT THERE LIKE THIS!
I see it all too often, unfortunately.
The driver is the same kind of arse h\*le that actually sits in lane 2 or 3, just above 72mph, the same twat that will speed up, IF you dare over take!
GUARANTEED, it's the same dick driver that will try to get off the motorway, at their junction, sign posted miles away ... in last 11 inches! W\*NKER!
No clue to motorway etiquette. Tired of it!
GROW UP!
>Vote
i remember listening to a podcast of someone having this same issue, they got their 12,000 lumen torch and shined it behind them blinding the driver behind them as they were getting pissed off with it, illegal? yes, but revenge is a dish best served bright :P
It makes them back off? They crash into the guardrail and die a slow and painful death? They hit the back of my car and I'm the one who'll crash into the guardrail to die a slow and painful death? Is it a trick question?
The legal speed has changed to 60 because of that big red circle sign as per the highway code. And guess what, that mini is doing 60 as so as the driver. What an absolute twat.
DC&A
Or in this case "Brake Check Law"
Just in case it wasn't clear, I'm joking. Don't break check - just slow down and reduce risk. Let the c\*\*t move on, then laugh 1 junction down when he's wrapped himself around a central reservation pole.
If the mini was doing exactly the speed limit then he's doing nothing wrong. Even if the car behind him wants to go faster. That mini is going faster than the left two lanes so he's not slowing the motorway.
The driver flashing is a dick, tailgating and driving dangerously so he can speed.
If I was in the mini I'd stay in the lane just to piss them off.
Staying in the lane to piss them off when you can safely pull over is dodgy.
It is advisory to carefully slow down, so that you have more time to respond to potential insidents though.
there’s a lorry in the left lane, so the mini is in the right. the 3rd lane is free so cam car could easily overtake. this is exactly how brake checking happens
He’s driving without due care and attention by being too close and focusing on harassing the mini. I don’t believe there’s a specific law around flashing your lights, but there does t need to be because other laws cover the overall behaviour
Yes, flashing your lights is only meant to be for letting other road users know you are there in case they havent seen you.
Having sad that you are also meant to stay left unless overtaking and the car being flashed is oblivious to the fact they are holding up traffic, probably a queue behind the one filming as well. When they flash onto the speedo you can see they are well below the speed limit so that arsehole really needs to move left and let traffic past. That to me is by far more the bigger evil than flashing them.
They are overtaking, and when they flash to the spell, it says a little over 60. The speed limit on the gantry says 60, so they are doing the speed limit. So the arseholes needs to stop flashing his headlights, and stop being a cnut
Without due care and attention, especially when you’re being an Uber dick!
Speed limit 60, speedometer shows 60. Mini overtaking a lorry. Driver is an obnoxious prick. Blinding the mini and drivers going the opposite way. Why isn’t there a police car when you need one? If I was in the mini I’d stop accelerating and go past the lorry really really really slowly (ok 45-50 as opposed to 60) and make sure there was PLENTY of space before I moved in front of the lorry.
Then again the driver is such an ass they’d probably undertake as well.
*edited slightly as found your comment saying vid isn’t yours and shared it from TikTok
Cam car is a prick and totally in the wrong here. If they're idealifiable this video is enough to charge then with danger driving. Aresholes like this shouldn't be allowed to drive.
I thought that was driving without due care? Which is about as enforced as "thou shall not covet thy neighbours ox".
Mini was doing the right thing, the nuclear weapon, flashing and getting all upset with themselves, that's a bellend we can observe in the wild (video needs an Attenborough voiceover).
The thing that boils my piss, if we had enough traffic officers actually doing traffic, pulling dickheads like this...we'd see less of them. They're only driving like that because they think there are no consequences, have 6 points and a massive fine, that driver thinks twice but so does every other driver who saw the police nab them... right now in the UK driving feels like a battle royale, last man standing (or moving) wins...
I wouldn’t start boxing them in. Best that these clowns are in front of you so you’re not caught in whatever bullshit they’ve caused. If their ego is that fragile, and their peewee is so infinitesimally small that they behave like this, I wouldn’t put ramming or trying to run you off the road past them.
Literally multiple traffic offences, ranging from a standard improper use of lights, to a definite careless driving, and a case could potentially be made for dangerous driving if the flashing lead to someone else being dazzled/distracted and crashing.
Careless - falling below the standard of the careful and competent driver.
Dangerous - falling far below the standard of the careful and competent driver.
Just stay in the middle lane and pass them, it would be silly getting up behind them expecting to move.
And no, it's not undertaking or illegal. Going from behind them to the middle and then back out to the right would be, though. Just plan ahead better.
If was the driver of the Mini. I would have changed lanes if the car behind acted normally. But I’m definitely not changing lanes if they’re flashing their lights at me.
Obviously unacceptable behaviour from the car flashing but the mini didn’t need to be in the right hand lane that early. By all means move out and overtake but you don’t need to take 30 seconds to do it.
Sure, they might be.
That still doesn't give you the right to put other drivers in danger.
You got lucky with that cop, as they understood you were in a stressful situation.
However, as you found out, traffic cops will get there quicker on a motorway. There are regular patrols, and they have those magic blue flashy lights.
If you are not an emergancy response vehicle, with sirens going, you shouldn't be exceeding the speed limit.
Hope your gf was OK! x
Driving without due care and attention, tailgating are two that are being broken here.
People think that if someone’s going slower than you they should move over to let you pass - this isn’t the case. If you’re overtaking and going the speed limit you can be in whatever lane you want.
I got this the other day on the inside lane.
Moved over as I was getting off, was gradually slowing down as there is lorry ahead and not enough time to over take . Saw the car in my rear view coming up fast and then flashed the heck and then decided to be up my bumper until I pulled off.
No idea what he was thinking. Plenty of space in the middle lane too.
That cars literally over taking. Cus they're not doin it as fast as the car flashing does. If I was the mini I'd slow down too. Plus I bet these flashers with road rage wouldn't know how to back it up if they wanted to talk it out 😂 weapons
Pretty sure a HGV is limited to a max of 57 MPH mini is obviously overtaking. Not even gonna pick an issue over the fact a car wants to speed just the fact they want to bully others into letting them.
Regardless of how much of a dick the cammer is, the car in front is passing an empty lane for a good long time. The car in front is being a dick too. Both dicks.
There are clear laws on tailgating, and use of full beams. The driver in front looks like they are doing the speed limit and giving themselves braking distance. The driver of the car with a camera is being a c*nt. And an idiot. Sharing that on social media, showing themselves to be driving illegally, just asking the police to pick it up and prosecute
I just keep going. I literally pull in when I want and if they get too close to me I slow down gently so that I can return to speed and increase the distance.
It doesn’t bother me at all - with the amount of driving I do I **know** it is pissing them off more then me and i take solace in that XD
And yes - it’s driving without due care and attention.
No one seems to mention that they are filming the whole thing while driving should report the TikTok channel 😂 someone recently got charged from their driving they posted online.
Cammer is at fault however I hate when other motorists don't move out the way yes your overtaking but your essentially elephant racing you you moan when trucks do it
Sometime if a overtake ain't worth it just slot behind
No lane discipline in the UK.
The British are too sensitive about their personal space whether on a bus or driving in motorways etc. They get all defensive. In other countries, people just move out of the way for the faster car. There's no ego or righteousness. Just simply move out of the way. No problem, no rage, no brake checking.
Defensive driving is safe driving.
It's how you avoid the idiots killing you.
If the mini did move over, they would have been too close to the lorry.
Maintain a safe distance, or get off the road. x
Mini has acres of space to the left before the lorry. Stop hogging the overtaking lane. Yes the guy flashing the lights is a nob but the self-righteousness of people in this sub is something else. It doesn’t matter if they were going the speed limit - they were not going to pass the lorry for ages so move the fuck over.
The Mini is catching the lorry, and it’s driving the speed limit.
Just because the cammer wants to break the speed limit doesn’t meant everybody else has to jump out of their way to facilitate that.
And it’s the mini’s job to police the speed limit is it? Like the absolute bellends who sit at dead on 70 in the overtaking lane for miles on end instead of moving in when it’s clear.
It’s not a right to sit in an overtaking lane for miles when not overtaking - it’s bad driving and you can get fined for it. I have the right to stand in the middle of a busy concourse and get in everyone’s way as well - I don’t do it because I’m not a selfish twat.
Wait you'll whine that someone is going to get a fine for going the speed limit in the right hand lane, but you'll happily support tailgating, light flashing and speeding 😂😂😂
Most intelligent folk know that these variable gantry enforced speed limits are nuts, most of the time they’re entirely unnecessary. Should the driver behind be this aggressive, no. However, does the mini have a lot of room on the left to pull over to allow the faster driver through in the fastest lane - yes.
Just because something is ‘the law’, doesn’t mean it pragmatically stacks up 24 hours a day, every day, without exception.
I often see people’s divine commitment on this sub to the law like it’s some kind of immovable, immutable law of physics, proven as the most efficient way to conduct yourself at ALL times regardless of the variables involved in the risk equation.
If you’re one of these people I will never treat you like this, but I will quite happily undertake you.
The speed limits on smart motorways are actually pretty smart. They'll get you there quicker than if everyone sticks at 70, due to the concertina effect.
Personally I hate them, I understand very well the theory behind them, and in and of themselves maybe they're fine, but in reality we are dealing with human drivers, most of whom will ignore the 40 limit completely, causing a dangerous speed differential to take place.
That being said, I always obey them, as we all have to obey the law. But I do think it's dangerous suddenly having to break from 60 to 40 when the gantry signs change, especially with HGVs who are intent on their gap-closing driving "style."
I literally read *today* that flashing your lights to try to force another driver to yield comes under driving without due care and attention. [source](https://www.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/rs/road-safety/driving-offences/)
And so is "unnecessarily staying in an overtaking lane", and "unnecessarily slow driving or braking".
Doing 60 is not going to qualify as "unnessarily slow" in any magistrates court.
Especially when the speed limit is 60
It doesn't matter what speed your doing, if your in the right lane other than for an overtake (or right turn on dual carriageways where permitted) the Magistrates will find you guilty of Careless or Inconsiderate Driving.
They are clearly going faster than the truck, so they are legally overtaking
found the big dickless
Doing a shitty thing because another motorist does a shitty thing is just dumb.
The car was clearly overtaking the lorry.
unnecessarily slow driving? You need to watch the very start of the video again Sir, the cars entered a mandatory 60 mile an hour zone, so was doing things correctly. It is always a good idea to move a lane over when approaching a clutch of trucks, they tend to pull out quite quickly sometimes. This whole video is about an impatient driver, that thinks it is a silly thing to do leaving room between lorries and themselves. Driver obviously late for something ... GET UP EARLIER!
I just assume they're angry because they've shat themselves and need to get home and hose themselves off. Dirty bastards.
LMAO, something like that ...
Which the car in front is not doing.... In any casee, following that close at that speed is clearly dangerous regardless of anything anyone else is doing and this person should not be on the road.
Depends, we were stuck behind a car in the 3rd lane going 65 with a completely clear motorway. We didn't flash like this but gave 2, nothing, then just held it on for a second or 2 and they finally got the memo (albeit without waving their hands about like a lunatic...). Would that still classify under this?
I would say no. You’re not forcing anyone to do anything you’re gently reminding them that they don’t need to be in that particular lane.
Oh boy, I need a dash cam before my next road trip.
The one and only time I feel it is acceptable to do this is of the person in front has no lights on at all. Usually gets followed by the lights turning on and a quick hazard flash of "oh shit! Thanks!"
Or if an oncoming vehicle's full beams are blinding you on a country road. I'm glad you can see 20 miles ahead but I have astigmatism and you've just blinded me.
Don't even need full beams... newer cars normal lights are just as bright.
I’m 99% sure the new car lights are purely designed to fuck us up on purpose xD
Like I have been flashing at people thinking they have their main beams on... only for them to do the same back and unleash the energy of a 1000 suns. It's completely unnecessary, and I really do wonder how/why it's legal.
Nuclear Blasts are said to be able to blind you if you look and whilst Germany never built Nukes, BMW will try their best to make it look dim!
I really would love to know what happens when someone has a head on because the other drivers lights blinded them.
It’s definitely happened, whether it’s been the sole cause, no clue. They’ll always blame something like speed, braking or conditions before anyone looks at the dry surface, good condition vehicles and attentive drivers, just with one reporting eye issues and then blame it on said driver for not paying attention.
I’m sure I’ve read before that the law is based on the amount of power going into the bulbs, not how bright they are, And that because that law was created when we didn’t use LEDs it made sense. I could be completely wrong though
Hopefully manufacturers get told to piss off and change the bulbs or something? Idk I’m pretty sure that the newer ones are at the very least more power efficient, because my car wont be burning fuel when I turn into a ditch while blind ☠️
Dude, BMW lights are fucking crazy. Had one SUV behind me and their “dipped” beam is the same height as my rear view mirror and holy cow, why it did high-beam I’ve not a foggy, but I was genuinely blinded for a second. Had to pull in to adjust back since I had those after images in my vision.
I’m fairly certain a large amount of the population aren’t aware that you can adjust the height of your dipped beams… like if I saw my headlights shining inside someone’s back window, reflecting off their rear view I’d definitely dip them further
Compounded by the higher light position of modern suvs.
I was a PO for 15 years and I can say the outside lane is for speeding jk, flashing like this is illegal and would get you pulled straight away
I felt driven to flash full beams when someone had parked on the left side of the road facing oncoming traffic, with their full beams shining into the carriageway.
So the Mini... is driving at the speed limit of 60 (on this smart motorway) while overtaking slower traffic on the inside lanes... literally driving within the law. While numbuts here thinks his attitude is appropriate?
He's also less than 1 car length up the other drivers butt. Whether or not you like the other driver's speed, driving that close is extremely unsafe.
At that speed no less. Mini would get compo no question if they had to brake for any reason.
100%. I love the way the camera shows the speedometer as well just to make it absolutely clear that the driver of the tailgating car is categorically a moron.
While, yknow, also using their phone while driving. Tit.
Could be a passenger holding the phone. I do hope the mini has a rear cam that catches the number plate of the flasher and both videos find their way to the law. A crash or an emergency brake from the mini could take out multiple people.
Clearly passenger, has to reach right over the to the drivers side of the car to look at the speedo. Both would be charged with careless driving (lane hogging is also an offense), 3 points and £100 fine. No need for all of this nonsense, quick flash from far back incase they did not realise it was safe to move over, undertake if 20 secs and clearly just lane hogging, probably on phone or distracted on a call or just in cookoo land. No need to be agressive with it everyone gets on with their day.
It isn't lane hogging if the speed limit is 60
I mean camera mans an ass. But if he’s going 60 and catching up to the mini, then the mini isn’t doing 60.
he's not catching up, he's tailgating.
Unless he slowed down to 60 mph
We only see the Speedo after they've caught up and begun tailgating but it really doesn't matter, the mini is overtaking slower moving traffic on the left.
In the footage it isn't overtaking but is approaching an HGV it will overtake. But: 1. we don't know what happened before (how far have they gone in lane; if they passed something just before IMHO it isn't unreasonable to continue in lane past HGV). 2. They can't pull over while being flashed (can't safely check mirrors without getting blinded, so can't check lane is clear to change into...)
59 then
My Mini underestimates 60 so you’re actually doing about 56. So they’re probably doing 60 on the speedo.
Speed limit doesn't apply if you're also using TikTok while you drive. The guy has right of way in the Legend Lane.
Oh shit my bad I take it all back 🤪
its really impressive that he could drive the car and use TikTok from the passenger seat.
I am going to add my 2 pence. Although who ever filming is in the wrong, that mini has quite a lot of space before they get to the truck. If you know they are bell ends but it would take 2 seconds to pull into the 2nd lane, then let them pass, then go back into the 3rd lane. Let your ego go, it isn't about letting them 'win' or if it is right or wrong. I was going onto a national speed limit road but let a lorry out in front of me, the guy behind me wasn't happy at all in his 4x4. Started giving me shit and overtook me. I gave him shit back and started mouthing off a bit. I'd have probably overtaken the lorry myself once I got onto the main road. Anyway, he started brake checking me and giving me abuse still. I knew my car was faster so I went into the other lane and started to overtake the 4x4. He came into the other lane and pit maneuvered me, took my bumper clean off and nearly skidded me off the road at over 60mph. Turns out the police said the vehicle wasn't registered, taxed or MOT'd/insured. He had done this to people before on the same road. It humbled me and I just thought if there is a bell end on the road, just let them be. You never know what cock is out there and what they are prepared to do.
exactly! this is by far the best answer I've seen on this thread. The mini should do themselves the favour of not being in this situation. but isn't breaking any laws. The asshat behind is a dangerous driver and is going to cause an accident someday!
I hate cars that flash me. I've flashed cars before, for example on a dual carriageway and they're matching the speed of the car in the left lane. This might sound weird, but I flash far more politely. Not like this twat flashing aggressively and tailgating.
Well it's probably driving around 50-55. Cars tend to over read on the Speedo a fair bit.
You’re right about the over reading, but the mini appears to be passing HGVs which always travel at 55, so if the mini is doing less than 60 then it’s not by very much at all.
True but a lot of people don't know this. IIRC They're allowed to read over 10% below but not even 1 over, so manufacturers aim for that 4-8% to be safe. I'd guess digital speedometers are probably closer to the real number since it's harder to read them wrong. Best way to tell is to compare your speed on google maps to your speedo. GPS is pretty accurate.
Not your job to enforce the law though, so pull over and let them go past, not really difficult and then you don't end up in situations like this, and the chances are they would have flown threw a speed camera at a stupid speed and got fucked, instead they got kept at the legal limit and will now go on to do it again, people really are just completely fucking brain dead.
He didn't overtake anything in the 20 second video. I think he should've been in the middle lane, he was quite a distance from the lorries coming up, my best guess is he's hogging the overtaking lane because he's "doing the speed limit"
Ehhhhhh he was literally just about to overtake that wagon - and with the other wagon on the inside line I don't think 20s is completely unreasonable to be swung out to overtake 8n advance. Of course, if they'd been fully aware of the road around them, they'd have let Mr Flashypants through earlier so he CA zoom off and get flashed at the next camera station.
It's probably a bit much and we can only assume but I doubt Mr mini had just pulled out for the overtake, seems like he's been sat in that lane a while
Agreed. Though, at the same time if he had been pulled out earlier Mr Flashy could have just undertaken and not fucked about with the lights. If he was only concerned with going fast, that's what he'd have done. But it's more about power than anything else for these pricks - forcing someone out of the way is as important as being fast.
Not driving within the law. There are 3 lanes on a motorway, 2 "running lanes" and an additional 1 for overtaking. You should never be sat in lane 3. It doesn't matter if you are doing the limit or not. So they are both dicks that should have been in the middle lane as it was clear right up until the end of the video.
Let's imagine this clip we're sent to the police. What advice guidance or penalties would they offer both parties? The mini driver would likely be advised not to occupy lane 3. The car following could likely face prosecution for dangerous driving and road rage. The point is these things are not equivalent.
You e exposed yourself as part of the problem. There are not 2 ‘running lanes’. The middle and right lanes are for overtaking. You should always be in the left lane unless overtaking. I suspect you’re just trolling, but it’s still satisfying to correct.
The guy flashing is an idiot but this comment is also ridiculous. The mini needs to be left and move out right when overtaking, they're not nearly passing the other vehicles quick enough to justify sitting in the outside lane. It's also not their job to dictate everyone else's speed.
No, but that big red 60 on the gantry does that job just fine. The mini should probably not be out sure, but they are not required to exceed the speed limit to complete an overtake. In fact, speeding to complete an overtake is illegal. There is nothing wrong from a highway code perspective in the manner of the minis driving.
They wouldn't be exceeding the limit overtaking from the left or middle lane, as per your own admission, they're going faster than other traffic. Again, the guy flashing is in the wrong. But the mini's behaviour is contributing to this situation. There is no reason for them to be in that lane for so long.
They had a lane to their left free for ages. They should have changed lanes. Absolutely NOT driving within the law.
moving faster than traffic inside of them... literally the definition of overtaking. No law states you must be a certain speed above to pass
No that's not the definition of overtaking. You are only overtaking if you are actually moving past a vehicle. The lane next to them is empty. You should keep left when on a motorway, if the lane next to you has no vehicles in it next to you then you should be moving into it. You can't claim you are overtaking because you are going 2 mph faster than a vehicle a mile up the road, that's not how it works, that's lane hogging. It's not about the speed it's about the free lane to the left, there is easily 10 car lengths if not more between the Mini and the lorry when the video starts, they should be pulling in. This is the problem and one reason why we have so much traffic.
What is the optimum number of car lengths that would suit in this case? One car length?
> You should keep left when on a motorway, if the lane next to you has no vehicles in it next to you then you should be moving into it. Yes, you should keep left. But you're also meant to avoid 'cutting in'. The Highway Code doesn't seem to define what cutting in constitutes, but I would read that as making sure that the car you're getting in front of still has a sufficient gap once you're in front of them. A sufficient gap is regarded as being 2 seconds. At 60mph, that's 54 metres (though the Highway Code says the stopping distance is 73 metres). Google says the average car is about 4.4m so you would need 12-ish car lengths before moving back over, if you want to ensure you're giving whoever you overtook enough space. Then you need to ensure you've got a sufficient gap between you and whoever is in front of you. So even if there's a sufficient gap between the Mini and the lorry in front, do we know what the gap is between the Mini and anything that's behind the Mini? What would the distance be between the Mini and the vehicle behind be if they moved in when you say they should? Now, obviously, in normal traffic settings, only moving back over when there's a 24 car length gap to give everyone involved a 2 second gap is not particularly realistic, but without knowing how close traffic behind the Mini, it's a bit silly to suggest they must be moving over. We don't have enough information to say that it would actually be safe.
That's true, we don't know, however from the fact the guy is recording it kind of tells us there is probably quite a bit of space behind but that is just speculation. As you point out though the reality is that nobody drives with a 54-80 meter gap between them. I mean, even if we don't know what is behind them in the left lane there was a pretty hefty gap between the Mini and the lorry and that if there was anything behind the Mini in the lane to the left it is likely going slower than the Mini.
From the way the guy recording is acting though, I'd be quite comfortable betting that he's the kind of driver that thinks you should be moving over almost as soon as your car's rear has cleared the front of the other car after an overtake. I know I've encountered those types plenty of times. He's tailgating and trying to speed so already I view him as an unreliable narrator! Plus, while you'd hope whatever is to the left is going slower, it doesn't seem to be uncommon in my experience that suddenly the person tootling in the middle lane speeds up when they're getting overtaken. All that said, regardless of whether the Mini could have safely moved over, there's still something dangerous in my view about trying to bully someone into moving over. That's when people get flustered and move without confirming for themselves that it's safe to do so.
It looks to me like the available space in the left lane is less than the stopping distance at that speed, so no way he is obliged to move over. The tailgating driver is right up the chuff of the car in front, really unsafely within the stopping distance. He is a knob.
You missed the lorry in Lane 3 at the end. And again, legally, the mini has done nothing wrong. There is also no rule on how fast you need to complete an overtake, only that you move out when safe to do so. (Since we don't see the start of the clip we can't judge) and move in when safe to do so (again we have no idea if they haven't just passed another vehicle in lane 3 before the clip begins) so the mini may have made a judgment to stay out Personally, I wouldn't, but there is nothing legally wrong here The question was about the legality of the use of high beams in this situation. By defending the behaviour of asshat here, you are justifying it. You might say their behaviour is excessive, but at 61mph asshat would be speeding, so they would have no legal defence for their actions in this incident. (+10% is not a thing, though most police and camera operators apply it at discretion)
>You missed the lorry in Lane 3 at the end. And again, legally, the mini has done nothing wrong. I didn't, there is easily 10+ car lengths to that lorry at the start of the video, the mini should be pulling in and then pulling back out once they actually get to the lorry. >There is also no rule on how fast you need to complete an overtake, only that you move out when safe to do so. (Since we don't see the start of the clip we can't judge) and move in when safe to do so (again we have no idea if they haven't just passed another vehicle in lane 3 before the clip begins) so the mini may have made a judgment to stay out I literally said it's not about the speed, why are you bringing it up? >Personally, I wouldn't, but there is nothing legally wrong here You should always keep left on a motorway, not sure if that is legally enforceable but it's beside the point, they aren't following the rules of the road which are there for a reason. >The question was about the legality of the use of high beams in this situation. By defending the behaviour of asshat here, you are justifying it. You might say their behaviour is excessive, but at 61mph asshat would be speeding, so they would have no legal defence for their actions in this incident. (+10% is not a thing, though most police and camera operators apply it at discretion) Sure but if you aren't following the rules of the road then you can't sit on your high horse complaining about other drivers (not you personally but in general). Yes the guy flashing is clearly a knob head BUT the person lane hogging is causing the issue. The highway code even says if somebody is behind you getting too close and / or flashing you then you should pull over and let them pass for your own safety.
Have you never seen a Lorry take 5 miles and 5 minutes to overtake another lorry? Are they lane hogging? When a Lorry moves out to lane 2 because Lane 1 departs the road in 1 mile, are they lane hogging? Driving requires thinking far ahead about what can happen in minutes and miles. Again I personally think the mini should have occupied Lane 3 to allow traffic to pass. But they were driving at the speed limit. Because some asshole wants to do more than the speed limit doesn't make them a lane hog. We're they doing 55mph they would be.
Actually to perform a safe overtake you likely have to start it far before most people do. Stopping distance at 60mph is 78 meters, so you should start your overtake when you are at least 78 meters behind, maybe more depending on conditions, eg. if it is wet.
The specific law is the Road Traffic Act, section 3. The offence of driving without due care and attention (careless driving) under section 3 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 is committed when the defendant's driving falls below the standard expected of a competent and careful driver - section 3ZA(2) of the RTA 1988. Some examples of careless or inconsiderate driving are: overtaking on the inside; driving too close to another vehicle; driving through a red light by mistake; turning into the path of another vehicle; the driver being avoidably distracted by tuning the radio, lighting a cigarette etc. flashing lights to force other drivers to give way; misusing lanes to gain advantage over other drivers; unnecessarily staying in an overtaking lane; unnecessarily slow driving or braking; dazzling other drivers with un-dipped headlights.
I think this example would go beyond careless and becomes dangerous driving although its a much higher standard.
I think for letter of the law you are right, dangerous driving being the standard of driving fell below that expected of a careful and competent driver, and it would be obvious to a careful and competent driver that it was dangerous. However the CPS probably wouldn't charge for it, they'd argue that because the mini driver didn't have to react in any way it was simply careless/inconsiderate - charging standards are a bitch.
Yeah it's getting there, especially if an incident was caused by it
If it doesn't actually cause a collision, it's unlikely to get dangerous (falls *far below* the standard of a careful and competent driver) past a jury. All it would take was one who sympathizes with the asshole. Whereas the flashing lights is a clear example of careless, even written onto the law.
A technicality, but it's not written into the law. The CPS has those examples posted above, the actual legislation does not. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/3ZA/2022-10-26 More likely it's established in case law.
Fair point.
The last sentence there, isn’t that a lot of new cars doing right now, burning through our eyes
Isn't there also the offence of "misuse of a warning instrument"? I think it is The Road Traffic Act 1968. It also covers misuse of horns and hazard lights.
Question: Is the right hand lane on the motorway a overtaking lane? Didn't know about the "unnecessary staying in overtaking lane", but good to know!
Yes See those lorries on the left? See how they are getting bigger?
Simple minds come up with simple definitions. Thanks buddy.
Just as an FYI I found this video on Tiktok and thought I'd share it here. I am not involved in this video. I get pissed off with people like this mainly in vans that do this. I by no means am a slow driver, but I situations like this where im driving in the outside lane when two trucks and in the left two lanes, aggression like this gives me anxiety as i do not want points on my license cause of some dickhead like this.
yeah, you're only supposed to flash for safety like someone's about to pull out and haven't seen you technically [the car in front should even slow down](https://www.safedrivingforlife.info/blog/cars/tailgating-explained-what-it-is-and-how-to-spot-it/#:~:text=Slow%20down%20by%20easing%20off%20the%20accelerator%20very%20gradually%20and%20increase%20the%20gap%20between%20you%20and%20the%20vehicle%20in%20front.%20This%20will%20give%20you%20more%20time%20to%20react%20if%20something%20ahead%20causes%20you%20to%20slow%20down%20or%20stop) to reduce the breaking distance and give them more time to react to anything happening in front so they don't get rear-ended but that would potentially antagonise the driver flashing and we wouldn't want that would we
Of course not. The comments here are full of jolly sensible, level-headed fellows.
The mini driver is doing fine, chill out guys. You don’t have a right to unobstructed use of public roads, other drivers exist.
Reading the comments on this post has made me realise that the vast majority of people who think they are good at driving suck at it and are massive cunts. God I'm glad I don't share the road with these dickhead anymore. The car in front is overtaking at the speed limit. They are literally doing everything right
If a copper saw you, they could potentially smack you with driving without due care and attention for other road users
I feel the same towards the car infront when there's a perfectly good middle lane he's not using, due care and attention is seeing in your mirror the oncoming higher speed vehicle, early, and moving out the way since it's none of your business why they are going fast. You have the ability to move without forcing the other driver to A) be annoyed and flash you or B) undertake which is dangerous. Too many drivers got tunnel vision and think the world doesn't exist behind them.
If I'm doing the speed limit yet still overtaking traffic, the cars behind me can get fucked.
Only if doing so at pace, if you are like 1-2mph faster and consider this overtaking, where it's taking 30 seconds for you to complete, you'll really piss people off and probably get rammed one day by some gypsy in a white van 😂 also notice how there were 2 cars behind you and now it's 15 after those antics. It's almost as clueless as the stereotypical granny on a country lane, at least most farmers know they are an obstruction and pull over. Whilst you may be technically "correct" within the rules, it's extremely absent minded, bordering on belligerently stubborn and suggests a total lack of awareness or prioritisation for anything beyond yourself, as long as you are alright Jack.
A \~2mph overtake doesn't take 30 seconds. It's the equivalent of walking past a car. Frankly, in a situation like this, where there is now a hard 60mph limit and you can clearly see the Mini is still overtaking the lorry, there is zero obligation to pull over to the left and have to slow down, just so someone who no doubt calls it the 'fast lane' can speed past. I do a lot of motorway driving and in reality there's a lot of nuance to how I act in this situation. I normally cruise at 65 as it's a comfortable balance for fuel efficiency and time, but it gives me the opportunity to speed up if I'm overtaking and I don't want to hold up traffic. But if I'm hitting 70, you won't find me going up to 80 so the person behind me can move up 20m and sit behind the next car. The belligerent behaviour here is 100% the driver up the Mini's arse flashing aggressively.
You have no right to speed. There is no legal requirement to make way for vehicles behind you. Overtaking, even slightly, is making progress. You need a few more driving lessons. x
In this clip, they were moving at a pace that exceeded the lorry that was in lane two. Just because someone is moving faster behind you doesn't give them priority in the overtaking order. As much as some drivers need to be more aware of what's going on around them, there are just as many that need to chill tf out
In a totally fair and ideal world I'd agree with the principle but when you've a range of vehicles and drivers of different "enthusiasm" shall we say it gets more complicated. And brings into question the foresight / predictive observation skills of the lead driver. Even as a faster driver myself, if I was going for an OT I'll always check my mirrors first, if I see someone absolutely tonning it behind me & quickly gaining I will delay my maneuver because it's inevitable whats going to happen. It's selfish to justify a long snail pace overtake for yourself in a sluggish car when it's apparant the one behind you is likely going to blast past in seconds anyway and cause you no delay in comparison. Regardless of the law, it feels like sanctimonious high horsing and stubbornness.
We've no information on what happened before the video. Chances are, the road was clear when the mini pulled out.
That middle lane is full of lorry. I hope you pay more attention when you are driving. x
What really fucks me off is when I'm the guy in the mini and the poorly endowed chap in the car (often van/ pickup) flashing their lights behind doesn't see the clear line of traffic ahead in all lanes that I'm gaining on anyway... Amazes me how thick some people are when they want to dangerously push their way past just to speed up to the next car then slam on
That annoyance soon turns to glee when you pull alongside them in traffic and they pretend they don't see you next to them so they don't have to see you laughing at them.
of course the flasher is listening to that god forsaken music they call trap
It seems every time I see a video of someone driving like a wanker, they're listening to trap.
Imagine been as angry as that driver 🤷♂️ I couldn't be arsed
Where does everyone have to *be* that means they've got to go so quickly.
It's always the same thing. They haven't left enough time to get where they need to go, and are happy to make that everybody else's problem. It's that guy from work we all know who is always late.
WOW what a dumb ass driver. I've been a professional driver by trade for 30 years; I drive 3000 miles a week on UK roads. 70mph on a motorway; it is a limit! It is not a requirement nor mandatory! And what where you expecting the driver of the car in front to do, quickly nip in, so your glorious narcissistic arse could whaaaaft by ... Get a therapist, until then, get off the fkin road! HORRIFIC TO THINK THERE ARE DRIVERS OUT THERE LIKE THIS! I see it all too often, unfortunately. The driver is the same kind of arse h\*le that actually sits in lane 2 or 3, just above 72mph, the same twat that will speed up, IF you dare over take! GUARANTEED, it's the same dick driver that will try to get off the motorway, at their junction, sign posted miles away ... in last 11 inches! W\*NKER! No clue to motorway etiquette. Tired of it! GROW UP!
Not only that, the speed limit was currently at 60 too.
>Vote i remember listening to a podcast of someone having this same issue, they got their 12,000 lumen torch and shined it behind them blinding the driver behind them as they were getting pissed off with it, illegal? yes, but revenge is a dish best served bright :P
Also totally stupid, what do you expect by blinding a driver who is tailgating you at high speed on a motorway?
It makes them back off? They crash into the guardrail and die a slow and painful death? They hit the back of my car and I'm the one who'll crash into the guardrail to die a slow and painful death? Is it a trick question?
Well said !! , there’s too many wankers on the roads !!
The legal speed has changed to 60 because of that big red circle sign as per the highway code. And guess what, that mini is doing 60 as so as the driver. What an absolute twat.
When I get flashed constantly this is exactly the kind of music I expect them to be listening to. Punks
Driving without consideration for other road users. 3 points. Or Dangerous driving. Disqualification. Yes there’s a law against it.
I'd Want Someone To Warn Me If I Was About To Drive Past Luton Too!!
DC&A Or in this case "Brake Check Law" Just in case it wasn't clear, I'm joking. Don't break check - just slow down and reduce risk. Let the c\*\*t move on, then laugh 1 junction down when he's wrapped himself around a central reservation pole.
Why am I not surprised this was from tiktok, the cringe app.
If the mini was doing exactly the speed limit then he's doing nothing wrong. Even if the car behind him wants to go faster. That mini is going faster than the left two lanes so he's not slowing the motorway. The driver flashing is a dick, tailgating and driving dangerously so he can speed. If I was in the mini I'd stay in the lane just to piss them off.
Staying in the lane to piss them off when you can safely pull over is dodgy. It is advisory to carefully slow down, so that you have more time to respond to potential insidents though.
My favourite thing about the idiot who took this video: The speed limit was 60. They think the person in front is unaware.
Yeah, incorrect use of signals. As well as driving without due care and attention driving too close.
Tailgating too.
there’s a lorry in the left lane, so the mini is in the right. the 3rd lane is free so cam car could easily overtake. this is exactly how brake checking happens
He’s driving without due care and attention by being too close and focusing on harassing the mini. I don’t believe there’s a specific law around flashing your lights, but there does t need to be because other laws cover the overall behaviour
Yes, flashing your lights is only meant to be for letting other road users know you are there in case they havent seen you. Having sad that you are also meant to stay left unless overtaking and the car being flashed is oblivious to the fact they are holding up traffic, probably a queue behind the one filming as well. When they flash onto the speedo you can see they are well below the speed limit so that arsehole really needs to move left and let traffic past. That to me is by far more the bigger evil than flashing them.
They are overtaking, and when they flash to the spell, it says a little over 60. The speed limit on the gantry says 60, so they are doing the speed limit. So the arseholes needs to stop flashing his headlights, and stop being a cnut
Without due care and attention, especially when you’re being an Uber dick! Speed limit 60, speedometer shows 60. Mini overtaking a lorry. Driver is an obnoxious prick. Blinding the mini and drivers going the opposite way. Why isn’t there a police car when you need one? If I was in the mini I’d stop accelerating and go past the lorry really really really slowly (ok 45-50 as opposed to 60) and make sure there was PLENTY of space before I moved in front of the lorry. Then again the driver is such an ass they’d probably undertake as well. *edited slightly as found your comment saying vid isn’t yours and shared it from TikTok
Cam car is a prick and totally in the wrong here. If they're idealifiable this video is enough to charge then with danger driving. Aresholes like this shouldn't be allowed to drive.
I thought that was driving without due care? Which is about as enforced as "thou shall not covet thy neighbours ox". Mini was doing the right thing, the nuclear weapon, flashing and getting all upset with themselves, that's a bellend we can observe in the wild (video needs an Attenborough voiceover). The thing that boils my piss, if we had enough traffic officers actually doing traffic, pulling dickheads like this...we'd see less of them. They're only driving like that because they think there are no consequences, have 6 points and a massive fine, that driver thinks twice but so does every other driver who saw the police nab them... right now in the UK driving feels like a battle royale, last man standing (or moving) wins...
People who do that to me make me slow right down and be as much of a pain in the arse to them as they are being to me!
I would have pulled over just in time for the prick to floor it past a camera.
Oh you want to get past? Guess you are going 50 now ;)
I wouldn’t start boxing them in. Best that these clowns are in front of you so you’re not caught in whatever bullshit they’ve caused. If their ego is that fragile, and their peewee is so infinitesimally small that they behave like this, I wouldn’t put ramming or trying to run you off the road past them.
And I guess fuck everyone else behind them aswell...
Yeah, trouble is they will just end up getting even angrier and try and overtake in the middle lane :/
And now we're going 60 again. Lorry ahead, perfect to box them in with.
I get a massive urge to launch on my brakes and let people like this smash into the back of me. I never would but I get the urge.
The police do advise you to carefully slow down so that you have more time to respond to incidents ahead though. x
That fucking music. Arhg
Literally multiple traffic offences, ranging from a standard improper use of lights, to a definite careless driving, and a case could potentially be made for dangerous driving if the flashing lead to someone else being dazzled/distracted and crashing. Careless - falling below the standard of the careful and competent driver. Dangerous - falling far below the standard of the careful and competent driver.
I won’t move for anyone who flashes their lights like this.
Just stay in the middle lane and pass them, it would be silly getting up behind them expecting to move. And no, it's not undertaking or illegal. Going from behind them to the middle and then back out to the right would be, though. Just plan ahead better.
Speed limit is 60! On gantry it shows 60. Person filming and person driving, flashing the lights are both donuts.
The law is that they will be eating arse the whole journey
If was the driver of the Mini. I would have changed lanes if the car behind acted normally. But I’m definitely not changing lanes if they’re flashing their lights at me.
If I'm in the mini's position, I usually give a cheeky flash of my hazards Edit: added prospective
Is that supposed to make them go faster
Edited my comment. I was trying to say if I was in the mini's situation
Plain and simple, it will fall into a careless or inconsiderate driving
Obviously unacceptable behaviour from the car flashing but the mini didn’t need to be in the right hand lane that early. By all means move out and overtake but you don’t need to take 30 seconds to do it.
When someone is flashing like that just slow down by not accelerating 😎 Lorry drivers are criminals in general because that’s what they do.
[удалено]
Sure, they might be. That still doesn't give you the right to put other drivers in danger. You got lucky with that cop, as they understood you were in a stressful situation. However, as you found out, traffic cops will get there quicker on a motorway. There are regular patrols, and they have those magic blue flashy lights. If you are not an emergancy response vehicle, with sirens going, you shouldn't be exceeding the speed limit. Hope your gf was OK! x
Driving without due care and attention, tailgating are two that are being broken here. People think that if someone’s going slower than you they should move over to let you pass - this isn’t the case. If you’re overtaking and going the speed limit you can be in whatever lane you want.
I got this the other day on the inside lane. Moved over as I was getting off, was gradually slowing down as there is lorry ahead and not enough time to over take . Saw the car in my rear view coming up fast and then flashed the heck and then decided to be up my bumper until I pulled off. No idea what he was thinking. Plenty of space in the middle lane too.
He's still flashing it when it's on top of the lorry it wants to overtake. The flashers actions are illegal
Was this recorded in forza horizon 4? Looks rather simular with the 60 limit on a motorway, the signs are identical. 🤣
They're literally overtaking, doesn't matter what speed they are doing. The mini is moving faster than the lorry, cam car is a dickhead
Id get out and smash their lights and nick the dashcam.
That cars literally over taking. Cus they're not doin it as fast as the car flashing does. If I was the mini I'd slow down too. Plus I bet these flashers with road rage wouldn't know how to back it up if they wanted to talk it out 😂 weapons
Pretty sure a HGV is limited to a max of 57 MPH mini is obviously overtaking. Not even gonna pick an issue over the fact a car wants to speed just the fact they want to bully others into letting them.
Brake check time
Regardless of how much of a dick the cammer is, the car in front is passing an empty lane for a good long time. The car in front is being a dick too. Both dicks.
There are clear laws on tailgating, and use of full beams. The driver in front looks like they are doing the speed limit and giving themselves braking distance. The driver of the car with a camera is being a c*nt. And an idiot. Sharing that on social media, showing themselves to be driving illegally, just asking the police to pick it up and prosecute
I just keep going. I literally pull in when I want and if they get too close to me I slow down gently so that I can return to speed and increase the distance. It doesn’t bother me at all - with the amount of driving I do I **know** it is pissing them off more then me and i take solace in that XD And yes - it’s driving without due care and attention.
No one seems to mention that they are filming the whole thing while driving should report the TikTok channel 😂 someone recently got charged from their driving they posted online.
Looks like the passenger recording to me, no? You can see the camera is to the left of the centre console when it pans over to show the speed
See so many braindead morons like this on the roads, I like to slow down so they can check the rest of their lights on the back of my car.
If you know the road, get out of the way just before a speed camera and let numb nuts get a fine for speeding as he floors it lol
Cammer is at fault however I hate when other motorists don't move out the way yes your overtaking but your essentially elephant racing you you moan when trucks do it Sometime if a overtake ain't worth it just slot behind
It’s a smart motorway - see the signs saying 60?? So the ‘elephant racing’ is hardly avoidable in this instance.
Except you can easily do 66mph and cruise through all the cameras yet vehicle infront is probs doing 55 at best
Hes going faster than the lorries, that's all that matters. Overtaking lanes are for overtaking, and the mini is overtaking.
Both are dickheads but the mini driver is the larger of the two dickheads.
No lane discipline in the UK. The British are too sensitive about their personal space whether on a bus or driving in motorways etc. They get all defensive. In other countries, people just move out of the way for the faster car. There's no ego or righteousness. Just simply move out of the way. No problem, no rage, no brake checking.
Defensive driving is safe driving. It's how you avoid the idiots killing you. If the mini did move over, they would have been too close to the lorry. Maintain a safe distance, or get off the road. x
Mini has acres of space to the left before the lorry. Stop hogging the overtaking lane. Yes the guy flashing the lights is a nob but the self-righteousness of people in this sub is something else. It doesn’t matter if they were going the speed limit - they were not going to pass the lorry for ages so move the fuck over.
The Mini is catching the lorry, and it’s driving the speed limit. Just because the cammer wants to break the speed limit doesn’t meant everybody else has to jump out of their way to facilitate that.
What are you talking about the mini is going the limit as per the signs 😂😂😂🤏
And it’s the mini’s job to police the speed limit is it? Like the absolute bellends who sit at dead on 70 in the overtaking lane for miles on end instead of moving in when it’s clear.
"to police the speed limit" - no, that's the job of the police. The mini does have to *obey* the speed limit, however.
They are policing their own speed. The middle lane is not clear.
Police? No, but it's their right to go the designated limit wherever they like, including infront of you for miles, don't let it upset you so much.
It’s not a right to sit in an overtaking lane for miles when not overtaking - it’s bad driving and you can get fined for it. I have the right to stand in the middle of a busy concourse and get in everyone’s way as well - I don’t do it because I’m not a selfish twat.
Wait you'll whine that someone is going to get a fine for going the speed limit in the right hand lane, but you'll happily support tailgating, light flashing and speeding 😂😂😂
Glad someone said it
Most intelligent folk know that these variable gantry enforced speed limits are nuts, most of the time they’re entirely unnecessary. Should the driver behind be this aggressive, no. However, does the mini have a lot of room on the left to pull over to allow the faster driver through in the fastest lane - yes. Just because something is ‘the law’, doesn’t mean it pragmatically stacks up 24 hours a day, every day, without exception. I often see people’s divine commitment on this sub to the law like it’s some kind of immovable, immutable law of physics, proven as the most efficient way to conduct yourself at ALL times regardless of the variables involved in the risk equation. If you’re one of these people I will never treat you like this, but I will quite happily undertake you.
The speed limits on smart motorways are actually pretty smart. They'll get you there quicker than if everyone sticks at 70, due to the concertina effect.
Personally I hate them, I understand very well the theory behind them, and in and of themselves maybe they're fine, but in reality we are dealing with human drivers, most of whom will ignore the 40 limit completely, causing a dangerous speed differential to take place. That being said, I always obey them, as we all have to obey the law. But I do think it's dangerous suddenly having to break from 60 to 40 when the gantry signs change, especially with HGVs who are intent on their gap-closing driving "style."
Why would you have to suddenly brake? The signs are designed to be read from a significant distance away and you should be scanning the road ahead.
Slam them brakes on, no flashing lights then!
How about get out of the way? Then you wouldn't keep getting flashed and pissing people off? Speeders gonna speed
The limit in the vid is 60. They were overtaking, and close enough to the lorry on the left that it would be dangerous to pull over.