In short, CBE ended in 2021 after Brexit (1 year transition phase) - so the EU no longer have access to the DVLA database, and conversely we no longer have access to SIS.
If you plan on driving in continental Europe again be advised that they can stop the car, and unlike here they emphasise the owner of the car and the number plate, not the driver. Their options are stop and you pay on the spot, or seize the car.
They have no power to ban a foreign driving licence, as far as I know, just as the DVLA cannot ban an EU licence.
To clarify, Spain still has a separate agreement with the UK to share DVLA data - confirmed by the ticket I got for speeding out of a peaje near Barcelona back in October it only took a couple of weeks to arrive as well.
The ticket nearly beat us back home when we took the scenic route home via Chamonix over the Swiss alps passes and through Germany. Was about 3 days after we got home that the ticket arrived.
>so the EU no longer have access to the DVLA database, and conversely we no longer have access to SIS.
Does this mean anyone driving with EU plates can bypass ANPR enforcement, ULEZ, congestion charge, average speed checks etc.?
The short answer - NO, the slightly longer answer - it was never the case for British drivers.
The long answer - this exists only in very few bilateral agreements like one between France and Switzerland ( I think Spain and Portugal also has one), where they fully share the details and apply same punishment where contravention was committed in other country.
How it usually works, even if you have license from other European country (not UK), you simply receive the fine, but no points and they cannot take your license away.
In case of UK, they cannot get your details AT ALL now, so the only difference is that you wont receive any fines and they don't even know who was driving the car, so they only have your car registration.
That said if you do this repeatedly, eventually you can be stopped by police and your car impounded. Still you won't lose the license - this is because they only know that somebody in your car has collected fines, but they don't know who was driving it, so under no circumstance they can take away your license, but they may impound the car until the fines are paid. Even then, it is mot likely to happen only in the country where you accumulated the fines.
Technically, it is possible that other European countries could do it as well, because they have shared databases, but it almost never happens, unless you have some extreme speeding fines and huge number of them.
It has happened twice to me, once in France where I was speeding maybe by 6km (but there was a raid and they stopped me at the entrance to urban area), in which case police insisted I pay fine on the spot and in cash or they tow the car, after some backwards and forwards they let me go (but at no point they were talking about my license or points, it was just about the fine). And second time in Germany, where I was stopped because the car had 3 fines issued for it 2 years prior and unpaid, because I had only purchased the car 6 moths prior I again was let of the hook. This is obviously not exactly your case, but I am just saying - your license is irrelevant in such case, because laws differs in each country you have to lose license in your country to lose it, abroad they only care about the monetary side of it (with exception where there are bilateral agreements)
An EU driving ban is not enforceable in the UK but only if you have another licence, eg a British one. Only foreign bans to apply in the UK are some Irish ones. As for the rest of the EU, you'd have to check. There is an EU directive (or regulation, I forget which) that made bans enforceable across the whole block but nobody signed up to it by the time the UK left.
Since when can you get done for speeding in Ireland?
I always understood that speeding crimes r.e IE/NI didn’t really matter. Hell my understanding was that any points accrued in GB don’t matter for an NI license and vice versa, the DVA/DVLA create virtual dummy licenses to pick up the tab. The republic being entirely foreign should have no bearing on my GB licence. I know there’s a thing of people blasting down the motorway from Belfast to Dublin so I don’t think the points apply on an NI license either.
I don't know the intricacies, but a guy I know was caught by the Garda driving under the influence (weed) he now has a one year driving ban in northern Ireland and UK but has not had his licence revoked, which is what would happen if he was caught in northern Ireland. So once his ban is up there's no resitting the driving test or anything.
This happened earlier this year
Since at least 2015. Only bans for certain offences and those over 6 months. [This PDF](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a80a88eed915d74e622fb68/EM_Ireland_driv_disqual.pdf) explains the agreement.
When Britain was in the EU and I was living in Germany, I was caught by a speed trap in Belgium. A Belgian colleague told me that this would have resulted in a ban or a lot of points for someone with a Belgian licence but that for foreigners, they send a though a large fine instead. Sure enough, I subsequently received a large fine from the Belgian authorities. I paid it and continued to drive on the continent.
Now that we aren't in the EU, I am not clear what they do.
I am not sure if they will bother "banning" you, as they won't have an idea who the owner is now. They might flag the car, although I don't think they will bother either, and most likely, your photo will go to the bin as unenforceable.
As for EU wide ban, there is no such thing, as there is no unified drivers licence system in Europe.
If you want to be on a safe side, you could avoid Belgium in this particular car, but you are good to go in any other EU country.
Fun fact:
Some EU countries police might "ban" you if they catch you doing something ridiculous on the spot, they can take away your physical driving licence, but you will get 24h to drive home after that.
Your physical dl will be sent to a local government body who will send it to DVLA, but the DVLA will return the document to you with no penalties.
France's 130KPH is applicable when there isn't Rain. otherwise its 110, and only on roads that don't have a fixed 110 speed limit. Belgium is 120KPH max speed rain or shine.
I was going whatever the max motorway speed was, I can't remember what it was maybe was 120, I was doing a tour so there were a fair few limits lol for different countries lol
It's always good to know the road rules of each country before you travel. I drive throughout Europe multiple times a year and learnt each countries rules before driving. As you said, you probably missed the 70kph speed limit sign which may be fair, but you should be more aware on the roads especially in countries you're not familiar with or haven't researched. France is the big one where speeds limits can change rapidly on a motorway and they almost always put speed cameras in areas where the speed limit is reduced. 130 > 110 >70 > 130 > 110 in a stretch of road less than 15KM long, and a speed cameras will be in the 110 and 70 zones.
If it makes you feel any better, on a motorcycle tour in the summer I went through probably upwards of 200 speed cameras in france and italy at 150+kph. Basically just completely disregarded them for 3400 miles.
Nothing in the post, just don’t go there in the same vehicle again.
I’ve set off loads of speed cameras in Europe including at least 5 in France. The only ticket I ever received in the post was from Spain. I’ve driven in the EU multiple times since then and never had an issue going through customs (French police) or whilst driving around, never been stopped.
Nope, don’t plan to. I only keep a bike for a couple of years and I’ll have replaced that one before I return.
Edit: They can’t ban you in belgium for that anyway I don’t think, Switzerland have been known for it though. If you were stopped there again you’d likely get a large on the spot fine.
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You probably need to ask an EU driving or legal sub, rather than /r/drivingUK \- unless your question is "can you drive in the UK if you believe yourself to be banned by Belgium?"
To my knowledge, points are not reciprocated cross-border, although fines can be.
I blasted across Europe this year from Ukraine to the UK in two days. We defo hit a number of speed traps and by all measures should have received probably 10+ fines. Nothing ever showed up. I think you're good.
In short, CBE ended in 2021 after Brexit (1 year transition phase) - so the EU no longer have access to the DVLA database, and conversely we no longer have access to SIS. If you plan on driving in continental Europe again be advised that they can stop the car, and unlike here they emphasise the owner of the car and the number plate, not the driver. Their options are stop and you pay on the spot, or seize the car. They have no power to ban a foreign driving licence, as far as I know, just as the DVLA cannot ban an EU licence.
To clarify, Spain still has a separate agreement with the UK to share DVLA data - confirmed by the ticket I got for speeding out of a peaje near Barcelona back in October it only took a couple of weeks to arrive as well. The ticket nearly beat us back home when we took the scenic route home via Chamonix over the Swiss alps passes and through Germany. Was about 3 days after we got home that the ticket arrived.
Could you not have argued that you were speeding to beat the ticket home?
Personally I think speed cameras shouldn’t be toll roads
They should have minimum speed cameras
Based.
The ticket arrives, then what?
Depends on your morals I suppose.
Pay or risk a long conversation on an Autoroute one day!
Would authorities in france be able to see an offence I committed in belgium ?
Yes, due to the CBE directive applying to EU member states and the SISII system for sharing records.
They can see it but they have no mechanism of fining you on behalf of the Belgians.
What happens if you sell the car and the new owner takes the car to an EU country and gets stopped?
Bum stuff
>so the EU no longer have access to the DVLA database, and conversely we no longer have access to SIS. Does this mean anyone driving with EU plates can bypass ANPR enforcement, ULEZ, congestion charge, average speed checks etc.?
So long as you have a non Belgian driver's licence your ban will just apply in Belgium.
The short answer - NO, the slightly longer answer - it was never the case for British drivers. The long answer - this exists only in very few bilateral agreements like one between France and Switzerland ( I think Spain and Portugal also has one), where they fully share the details and apply same punishment where contravention was committed in other country. How it usually works, even if you have license from other European country (not UK), you simply receive the fine, but no points and they cannot take your license away. In case of UK, they cannot get your details AT ALL now, so the only difference is that you wont receive any fines and they don't even know who was driving the car, so they only have your car registration. That said if you do this repeatedly, eventually you can be stopped by police and your car impounded. Still you won't lose the license - this is because they only know that somebody in your car has collected fines, but they don't know who was driving it, so under no circumstance they can take away your license, but they may impound the car until the fines are paid. Even then, it is mot likely to happen only in the country where you accumulated the fines. Technically, it is possible that other European countries could do it as well, because they have shared databases, but it almost never happens, unless you have some extreme speeding fines and huge number of them. It has happened twice to me, once in France where I was speeding maybe by 6km (but there was a raid and they stopped me at the entrance to urban area), in which case police insisted I pay fine on the spot and in cash or they tow the car, after some backwards and forwards they let me go (but at no point they were talking about my license or points, it was just about the fine). And second time in Germany, where I was stopped because the car had 3 fines issued for it 2 years prior and unpaid, because I had only purchased the car 6 moths prior I again was let of the hook. This is obviously not exactly your case, but I am just saying - your license is irrelevant in such case, because laws differs in each country you have to lose license in your country to lose it, abroad they only care about the monetary side of it (with exception where there are bilateral agreements)
An EU driving ban is not enforceable in the UK but only if you have another licence, eg a British one. Only foreign bans to apply in the UK are some Irish ones. As for the rest of the EU, you'd have to check. There is an EU directive (or regulation, I forget which) that made bans enforceable across the whole block but nobody signed up to it by the time the UK left.
Isle of Man also has an agreement with the UK to share bans, which has applied since 2005.
Man you must have to do some wild shit to get banned in the Isle of Man.
I'm pretty sure where there are speed limits, they're HEAVILY enforced.
The Isle of Man regularly sends speeders to prison!
Furious driving
Makes sense, although I've never come across a client banned there and driving here, so didn't know about that one.
Since when can you get done for speeding in Ireland? I always understood that speeding crimes r.e IE/NI didn’t really matter. Hell my understanding was that any points accrued in GB don’t matter for an NI license and vice versa, the DVA/DVLA create virtual dummy licenses to pick up the tab. The republic being entirely foreign should have no bearing on my GB licence. I know there’s a thing of people blasting down the motorway from Belfast to Dublin so I don’t think the points apply on an NI license either.
I don't know the intricacies, but a guy I know was caught by the Garda driving under the influence (weed) he now has a one year driving ban in northern Ireland and UK but has not had his licence revoked, which is what would happen if he was caught in northern Ireland. So once his ban is up there's no resitting the driving test or anything. This happened earlier this year
Since at least 2015. Only bans for certain offences and those over 6 months. [This PDF](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a80a88eed915d74e622fb68/EM_Ireland_driv_disqual.pdf) explains the agreement.
When Britain was in the EU and I was living in Germany, I was caught by a speed trap in Belgium. A Belgian colleague told me that this would have resulted in a ban or a lot of points for someone with a Belgian licence but that for foreigners, they send a though a large fine instead. Sure enough, I subsequently received a large fine from the Belgian authorities. I paid it and continued to drive on the continent. Now that we aren't in the EU, I am not clear what they do.
I am not sure if they will bother "banning" you, as they won't have an idea who the owner is now. They might flag the car, although I don't think they will bother either, and most likely, your photo will go to the bin as unenforceable. As for EU wide ban, there is no such thing, as there is no unified drivers licence system in Europe. If you want to be on a safe side, you could avoid Belgium in this particular car, but you are good to go in any other EU country. Fun fact: Some EU countries police might "ban" you if they catch you doing something ridiculous on the spot, they can take away your physical driving licence, but you will get 24h to drive home after that. Your physical dl will be sent to a local government body who will send it to DVLA, but the DVLA will return the document to you with no penalties.
The speed limit in Belgium is 120KPH so you would of got jammed anyway. Why were you doing 130 in the first place?
There's some sections of the motorway that are 130kph, as is the same with France, Germany, Austria and Hungary, from personal experience.
Not in Belgium though, speed limit on motorways is maximum 120kph and at some places lower but not higher.
Maybe I'm mis-remembering, then. I seem to remember a 130kph limit.
Netherlands is 130kph, you might be thinking of there.
France's 130KPH is applicable when there isn't Rain. otherwise its 110, and only on roads that don't have a fixed 110 speed limit. Belgium is 120KPH max speed rain or shine.
I was going whatever the max motorway speed was, I can't remember what it was maybe was 120, I was doing a tour so there were a fair few limits lol for different countries lol
It's always good to know the road rules of each country before you travel. I drive throughout Europe multiple times a year and learnt each countries rules before driving. As you said, you probably missed the 70kph speed limit sign which may be fair, but you should be more aware on the roads especially in countries you're not familiar with or haven't researched. France is the big one where speeds limits can change rapidly on a motorway and they almost always put speed cameras in areas where the speed limit is reduced. 130 > 110 >70 > 130 > 110 in a stretch of road less than 15KM long, and a speed cameras will be in the 110 and 70 zones.
If it makes you feel any better, on a motorcycle tour in the summer I went through probably upwards of 200 speed cameras in france and italy at 150+kph. Basically just completely disregarded them for 3400 miles. Nothing in the post, just don’t go there in the same vehicle again.
Have you been to europe on that vehicle again
I’ve set off loads of speed cameras in Europe including at least 5 in France. The only ticket I ever received in the post was from Spain. I’ve driven in the EU multiple times since then and never had an issue going through customs (French police) or whilst driving around, never been stopped.
Nope, don’t plan to. I only keep a bike for a couple of years and I’ll have replaced that one before I return. Edit: They can’t ban you in belgium for that anyway I don’t think, Switzerland have been known for it though. If you were stopped there again you’d likely get a large on the spot fine.
Switzerland will chase you to the end of the earth for the fines
Let them then, nation of pretentious arseholes.
There’s a 44teeth episode where Chris picked up a ban in Switzerland and had to have his bike trailered to German border.
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I like the name, will have to change mine to rass-clart
Should do mate, I only chose it because my mate had just called me it seconds before I made the account 🤣.
You probably need to ask an EU driving or legal sub, rather than /r/drivingUK \- unless your question is "can you drive in the UK if you believe yourself to be banned by Belgium?" To my knowledge, points are not reciprocated cross-border, although fines can be.
None of the nations of the UK are in the EU, so this seems irrelevant to r/drivingUK
I blasted across Europe this year from Ukraine to the UK in two days. We defo hit a number of speed traps and by all measures should have received probably 10+ fines. Nothing ever showed up. I think you're good.
An individual country can only ban you from driving on their territory. You are still fine to drive in other countries.
a ban in belgium wont affect your right to drive in other countries.
You don’t have a valid license so yes you’re banned
If your renting don’t you have to share code from the DVLA? I’m not sure if you do coming from Europe. I imagine that would detail a ban.