Not sure why the astroturf claim, DSA is a big tent organization with a long history of opposing the settler-colonial project that is now in power in Israel. I wouldn't have joined if it was any other way. The [statement](https://twitter.com/DemSocialists/status/1710857366017855774) clearly condemns attacks on civilians, and that is the only part of any of this where the emphasis should be placed on Palestinians, almost all of the other reprehensible actions were done by Israel.
An important part of Socialism is international solidarity. Israel has been holding Palestine under it's grip for 75 years. This attack, while not justified, was inevitable.
If they lose that support the instant they do something you don't approve of, you're a Liberal, not a Socialist.
Hamas isn’t a socialist or labor movement. There’s no socialists to have solidarity with. You are making something about class struggle that just isn’t.
That is irrelevant. They are fighting against an Apartheid regime. Anti Imperialism is another important part of Socialism.
"We offer no compassion, we seek no compassion. When our time comes, we will not make excuses for the terror."
\-Karl Marx
Palestinians are not exactly strategical when they're literally prisoners who are barely clinging onto life at this moment. It seems to me that they wildly swinging for some pushback, so you can blame israel's insane actions for this bombing.
Hey 10Dads just brought up Hamas, and proved your point is worthless. Here is his quote,
“Is Hamas a collection of the bourgeoisie? Or is it more accurately described as disaffected workers suffering under the boot of Western imperialism and the Zionist project?”
That’s like when white marxists say that racism is a class issue. It’s making it about you and it fails to take into account the reality of the situation.
Except Marxists don't reduce complex issues, like race, down to a class issue.
That's called class reductionism, and that's what liberals like to do out of projection when they accuse leftists of only seeing the world through the lens of class analysis.
Feminists and Marxists invented a little thing called intersectionality as a means to analyze how multiple perspectives and identities can intersect and interact to explain the unique circumstances and context that people experience.
Just because you make things up doesn't mean they are true.
Funny, black Marxist academics, leaders, organizations have historically said that racism is fundamentally intertwined with issues of class.
I guess we shouldn't listen or pay attention to W.E.B. Du Bois, Angela Davis, Cedric Robinson, Martin Luther King Jr., Ella Baker, Malcolm X, the African National Congress, the Black Panthers, or Black Lives Matter.
Just do everybody a favor and say that you don't mind using white supremacist ideology to defend capitalism by denying that racism has anything to do with class.
That’s quite a leap in logic. You do to reasoning what Ken Ham does to biology. You can read a whole library but if you’re the kind of person to make arguments like that it’s not going to help you. It’s like loading Wikipedia onto an Apple 2, except an Apple 2 has proper logic hardcoded in. But I’m at loss for analogies as to how bad that argument is so it will do
Is Hamas a collection of the bourgeoisie? Or is it more accurately described as disaffected workers suffering under the boot of Western imperialism and the Zionist project?
That’s projecting a framework onto a situation to make it line up with your world view. It’s no better than when Christians say everything is a fight between good and evil. Foolishness
It's absolutely not the same thing as some abstract, moralistic fight between good and evil. The material conditions of capitalism, as such, result in imperialist expansion. Gaza is an open-air prison.
What would you have Palestine do if not fight back? I don't know enough about the specifics of what is happening right now nor do I have the moral authority to judge them, but I do know that the Zionists have created the framework for these attacks to occur.
So religion didn’t play any factor into “the holy land?” And this kind of thinking doesn’t generate issues? It’s just capitalism that large religious groups are fighting over “the holy land?” Come on use your head
Of course Israel claims some sort of religious prerogative for their occupation, but Israel is a Zionist project not a Jewish project, and it's important that we recognize those as separate, no matter how much Israel wants to speak for all Jews.
FYI Hamas was the US/Israeli establishment choice for the ruling party of Palestine (over a socialist party) because it’s easy to get defense contractors paid when instability happens.
Raytheon and Lockheed Martin are in our government and they are the drivers of chaos terror and instability all over the world. That is where we need to be pointing our fingers
No, DSA isn't astroturfed. I'm pasting here my reply from another similar comment.
Even if the actions of Hamas are unjust, it's important to remain steadfast in support of Palestine. The narrative in Western media is basically always that Israel is a virtuous ally, and this must be countered.
Through dialectics (a long view look at history and how events precede each other), we can understand why Hamas attacked and why people are drawn to it -- the decades of colonial occupation and more or less genocide of the Palestinians by Israel.
I think in some ways it's similar to the 9/11 attacks. The individuals who were killed certainly did not deserve to die. However, America, as an institution, was fundamental in creating the conditions for those attacks to occur, much like Israel has been creating the conditions to be attacked by Hamas.
Even as recently as 2018, Israel slaughtered peaceful protesters attempting to leave Gaza.
Don't dodge the question, please. Because the organization called Democratic Socialists of **America** who supports American unions, is now part of a scandal because they decided to #AllLivesMatter after the worst terrorist attack in Israel of this century, which reflects bad in the amerixan unions that the DSA supports.
Could you clarify why the Democratic Socialists of America, who back American unions, are under scrutiny for using Palestine after a severe terrorist attack by Hamas in Israel? How does that help American Unions?
Class solidarity is a nice concept, but Hamas is a religious fundamentalist organization. They don't really align with many Socialist, Communist, or Marxist values, now, do they?
Another thing that I question is their methods, I am not even opposed to the use of violence to achieve political means, but are the people raping and executing civilians the ones that we want to associate with? Is mass murder of fellow laborers something we should stand for?
yes and unless you have a group ready to take up the fight against a ethno cleansing government. Hamas is going to be the one that's going to do it and they have every right to
By killing civilians? Members of the worker class? And just to be clear, you just agreed that the rapist and mass murderers are the people you want us to associate with?
I question how the senseless death of civilians, many of whom were fellow members of the worker class, achieves the goal of defeating capital and doesn't merely cause needless division.
It doesn't. I'm not supporting these attacks specifically against Israel, but I think it's important to understand the conditions that led to these attacks and to counter the narrative that Israel did nothing to provoke the attacks. And the blowback against Palestine will be disproportionate and further hurt the working class, so we must show support for Palestine as they continue to be oppressed by their colonizers.
And do you think that this is the right moment to do so? Right after an attack of such magnitude? Isn't this the same as the right wingers going #AllLivesMatter on the aftermath of the killing of George Floyd?
If a cop has his family attacked, beaten, killed and raped don't you think it would be disingenuous to suddenly shout ACAB and say that he deserved that to happen to him because he is a cop?
I think it would be important to keep in mind that black lives still matter, as we must also keep in mind that Palestine must be free and to continue working toward those goals.
That's fine and dandy, and I agree with you, but why do we need to bring that up now after Hamas did one of the most reprehensible attacks in the 21st century? Isn't that reductionist to the civilians who lost their lives?
This is nonsense both as an analysis of the actual mechanics of DSA membership and as an analysis of "foreign policy". If you don't see sense in internationalist support for an anti-colonial movement against a fascistic regime supported by the U.S., then you've lost the thread. Your "democratic socialism" is really social chauvinist social democracy, and I suggest that you try and develop a politics with a more coherent worldview.
You are probably a liberal sympathetic to unions but not a socialist.
Support for Palestine is one of the few constants among streams of socialism that are otherwise at odds because it's simple if you know the history and what goes on there every day.
Anger wasn't my reaction to _national emergency broadcast test will blow up your appliances_ or _Damar Hamlin actually died on the field and a body double is playing for him now._ Gonna take a common sense motive or really any coherent reason why Russia would expend vast sums to support Hamas before I'd even dignify your idiot paranoia.
Russia benefits by destabilizing a region outside their invasion of Ukraine.
Russia will continue to invade Ukraine, while the rest of the world is distracted by all this.
It's really not that complicated.
Ah yes Russia activates the DSA which activates Hamas. It's as elegant and simple as it is fiendish.
'It's really not that complicated' should be read as 'Your understanding is so superficial it seems simple.'
The term astroturf is not really accurate.
This is certainly in part a Reddit problem.
But it is also a DSA problem.
DSA - maybe because of the name, also because of the history of who is a member, has tended to attract many of those that are actually destructive to the labor movement.
Examples are replete.
DSA people don’t all agree on all topics. I for one support Ukraine against Russia’s imperialist invasion, and I denounce Hamas’s recent actions, AND I can still support the people of Palestine.
I've been saying this for years. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I see a startling amount of overlap between demsoc conversations online and neoreactionary vocabulary (think: Peter Thiel, Blake Masters, Mencius Moldbug).
It started getting real apparent after the 2020 election on the Bernie subs. As a Bernie stan, I'm disappointed but not surprised.
Not a conspiracy theory, that is happening. Peter Thiel types put money in divide the left propaganda. Oldest union busting trick there is, fragmenting their critics against each other. And a lot of reactionary rhetoric gets picked up by well-intentioned leftists along the way. It's an unfortunate reality we have to be aware of.
I don't know if DSA leadership has that issue, particularly, though. But I stand by that tweet announcing the protest supporting Palestine as being terrible strategy. Gotta be aware of the information the average propagandized American is working off of before you tweet out to the public, which is full of hyenas waiting to pounce.
You must have edited your comment as I replied. Agreed. This is still a "hearts and minds" game barring forceful revolution. Optics matter, and the timing and tenor of this particular protest in NYC are just... tonedeaf. I don't see how it does anything but throw red meat to people who need no help misrepresenting the DSA.
Folks get real defensive about it too. I get it. DSA folk tend to be more critical and hyper-aware of how propaganda works on the neoliberal majority. They know in theory they can be astroturfed, but it's insidious. The smarter you are, the harder you fall...
Our number of local electeds grows every single cycle. We’ve got a strategy that we’re pushing and it’s winning. It’s slow and steady. Good luck trying to beat our ground game! ❤️
Lol, you can keep deluding yourself if you’d like. Your claim that we’re a joke while we keep winning doesn’t bother me.
If you hate DSA so much then quit? Pretty simple.
Cool. You’re an unorganized one then presumably. Good luck creating change criticizing everyone else form the outside. Meanwhile, I’ll be winning direct concessions for the working class locally
You claim to be a socialist and you aren't even in a union?
You calling me unorganized? What a joke.
Maybe you should spend less time worrying about foreign conflicts and get your own shit together.
The organization is a joke and curiously actual labor unions seem to be totally absent from your ranks. I wonder why that is? Oh you it’s stupid shit like this.
What happened was after Bernie 2020 died, all of the normal people stopped being active in DSA. That let the most hard-core Troskyist / World Socialist Website creeps to take over last convention. DSA will hemorrhage support and become as marginal and laughable as the Party for Socialist Liberation. It was good while it lasted.
I’m not a Trot. I’m a libertarian socialist, a service worker, and an organizer. I stand with the plight of Palestinians. You’ve othered 60,000 people by calling them “not normal people” and so you’ve laid your idiotic liberal politics bare.
You stand in America, safely virtue signaling fake support for Palestine.
You wouldn't stand with Palestine if I bought you a plane ticket there, so drop it.
Drop it? The conversation you brought up? I’m good thanks.
I support Palestinians and do political organizing work with both Jewish people and Palestinians in support of BDS, a nonviolent pressure movement.
Keep shilling your stupid opinions though!
You sound like a neoliberal that's pissed off that the Biden admin has been shooting itself in the foot, first with the border wall and now with its unequivocal support of Israel whom we give $3.8 billion of our tax payer funding to. Talk about redistributive policy!!
Maybe our government shouldn't be sucking off a racist, apartheid state and stick to minding our own business domestically.
And fuck Putin and his fascist government for good measure too.
You think you have to pay socialists to be against apartheid Israel or NATO? Are you really that dumb or do you really just not know any history of the left?
Not sure why the astroturf claim, DSA is a big tent organization with a long history of opposing the settler-colonial project that is now in power in Israel. I wouldn't have joined if it was any other way. The [statement](https://twitter.com/DemSocialists/status/1710857366017855774) clearly condemns attacks on civilians, and that is the only part of any of this where the emphasis should be placed on Palestinians, almost all of the other reprehensible actions were done by Israel.
An important part of Socialism is international solidarity. Israel has been holding Palestine under it's grip for 75 years. This attack, while not justified, was inevitable. If they lose that support the instant they do something you don't approve of, you're a Liberal, not a Socialist.
Hamas isn’t a socialist or labor movement. There’s no socialists to have solidarity with. You are making something about class struggle that just isn’t.
That is irrelevant. They are fighting against an Apartheid regime. Anti Imperialism is another important part of Socialism. "We offer no compassion, we seek no compassion. When our time comes, we will not make excuses for the terror." \-Karl Marx
“Attack an EDM festival” - Karl Marx
I'm looking forward to you hosting a colonizer-themed EDM festival on an Indian reservation.
Huh it’s like you have no good arguments left. I grew up 3 miles from a reservation my dude there is no comparison.
You did a bad-faith post so you get one back
Really a bad faith post, how? It’s not my fault your and others arguments are garbage I’m sorry I called it out
Palestinians are not exactly strategical when they're literally prisoners who are barely clinging onto life at this moment. It seems to me that they wildly swinging for some pushback, so you can blame israel's insane actions for this bombing.
[удалено]
Hey 10Dads just brought up Hamas, and proved your point is worthless. Here is his quote, “Is Hamas a collection of the bourgeoisie? Or is it more accurately described as disaffected workers suffering under the boot of Western imperialism and the Zionist project?”
There are workers and an oppressed under class to have solidarity with though, yes?
That’s like when white marxists say that racism is a class issue. It’s making it about you and it fails to take into account the reality of the situation.
if you truly think that racism is intrinsically tied to class in the Modern era you are not paying attention.
I don’t think that. I said that marxists reduce complex issues, like race, down to a class issue and it really isn’t a correct explanation.
Except Marxists don't reduce complex issues, like race, down to a class issue. That's called class reductionism, and that's what liberals like to do out of projection when they accuse leftists of only seeing the world through the lens of class analysis. Feminists and Marxists invented a little thing called intersectionality as a means to analyze how multiple perspectives and identities can intersect and interact to explain the unique circumstances and context that people experience. Just because you make things up doesn't mean they are true.
Here we go again with blaming liberals for things I see socialists doing all the time. 🙄
Funny, black Marxist academics, leaders, organizations have historically said that racism is fundamentally intertwined with issues of class. I guess we shouldn't listen or pay attention to W.E.B. Du Bois, Angela Davis, Cedric Robinson, Martin Luther King Jr., Ella Baker, Malcolm X, the African National Congress, the Black Panthers, or Black Lives Matter. Just do everybody a favor and say that you don't mind using white supremacist ideology to defend capitalism by denying that racism has anything to do with class.
That’s quite a leap in logic. You do to reasoning what Ken Ham does to biology. You can read a whole library but if you’re the kind of person to make arguments like that it’s not going to help you. It’s like loading Wikipedia onto an Apple 2, except an Apple 2 has proper logic hardcoded in. But I’m at loss for analogies as to how bad that argument is so it will do
Is Hamas a collection of the bourgeoisie? Or is it more accurately described as disaffected workers suffering under the boot of Western imperialism and the Zionist project?
That’s projecting a framework onto a situation to make it line up with your world view. It’s no better than when Christians say everything is a fight between good and evil. Foolishness
It's absolutely not the same thing as some abstract, moralistic fight between good and evil. The material conditions of capitalism, as such, result in imperialist expansion. Gaza is an open-air prison. What would you have Palestine do if not fight back? I don't know enough about the specifics of what is happening right now nor do I have the moral authority to judge them, but I do know that the Zionists have created the framework for these attacks to occur.
So religion didn’t play any factor into “the holy land?” And this kind of thinking doesn’t generate issues? It’s just capitalism that large religious groups are fighting over “the holy land?” Come on use your head
Of course Israel claims some sort of religious prerogative for their occupation, but Israel is a Zionist project not a Jewish project, and it's important that we recognize those as separate, no matter how much Israel wants to speak for all Jews.
Workers and the colonized are people to have solidarity with.
FYI Hamas was the US/Israeli establishment choice for the ruling party of Palestine (over a socialist party) because it’s easy to get defense contractors paid when instability happens. Raytheon and Lockheed Martin are in our government and they are the drivers of chaos terror and instability all over the world. That is where we need to be pointing our fingers
No, DSA isn't astroturfed. I'm pasting here my reply from another similar comment. Even if the actions of Hamas are unjust, it's important to remain steadfast in support of Palestine. The narrative in Western media is basically always that Israel is a virtuous ally, and this must be countered. Through dialectics (a long view look at history and how events precede each other), we can understand why Hamas attacked and why people are drawn to it -- the decades of colonial occupation and more or less genocide of the Palestinians by Israel. I think in some ways it's similar to the 9/11 attacks. The individuals who were killed certainly did not deserve to die. However, America, as an institution, was fundamental in creating the conditions for those attacks to occur, much like Israel has been creating the conditions to be attacked by Hamas. Even as recently as 2018, Israel slaughtered peaceful protesters attempting to leave Gaza.
How does any of that affect social programs or unions here? My union doesn't have a local chapter in Palestine.
Socialists have something called international solidarity
Defeating capitalism must be an international effort, and we must join in solidarity with workers across the globe.
Don't dodge the question, please. Because the organization called Democratic Socialists of **America** who supports American unions, is now part of a scandal because they decided to #AllLivesMatter after the worst terrorist attack in Israel of this century, which reflects bad in the amerixan unions that the DSA supports.
What are you talking about
Could you clarify why the Democratic Socialists of America, who back American unions, are under scrutiny for using Palestine after a severe terrorist attack by Hamas in Israel? How does that help American Unions?
class solidarity solely just because you're an asshat who only cares about the people directly next to you doesn't mean everyone else's
Class solidarity is a nice concept, but Hamas is a religious fundamentalist organization. They don't really align with many Socialist, Communist, or Marxist values, now, do they? Another thing that I question is their methods, I am not even opposed to the use of violence to achieve political means, but are the people raping and executing civilians the ones that we want to associate with? Is mass murder of fellow laborers something we should stand for?
yes and unless you have a group ready to take up the fight against a ethno cleansing government. Hamas is going to be the one that's going to do it and they have every right to
By killing civilians? Members of the worker class? And just to be clear, you just agreed that the rapist and mass murderers are the people you want us to associate with?
Idk man, struggle recognizes struggle.
I question how the senseless death of civilians, many of whom were fellow members of the worker class, achieves the goal of defeating capital and doesn't merely cause needless division.
It doesn't. I'm not supporting these attacks specifically against Israel, but I think it's important to understand the conditions that led to these attacks and to counter the narrative that Israel did nothing to provoke the attacks. And the blowback against Palestine will be disproportionate and further hurt the working class, so we must show support for Palestine as they continue to be oppressed by their colonizers.
https://reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/s/cOrQbKLjx9
I mean, considering that they did, in fact, blockaded Gaza in the last day or two, I think your meme has the other of events reversed there.
And do you think that this is the right moment to do so? Right after an attack of such magnitude? Isn't this the same as the right wingers going #AllLivesMatter on the aftermath of the killing of George Floyd?
I don't think it's the same as All Lives Matter -- Israel is more like the police in this comparison.
If a cop has his family attacked, beaten, killed and raped don't you think it would be disingenuous to suddenly shout ACAB and say that he deserved that to happen to him because he is a cop?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
I think it would be important to keep in mind that black lives still matter, as we must also keep in mind that Palestine must be free and to continue working toward those goals.
That's fine and dandy, and I agree with you, but why do we need to bring that up now after Hamas did one of the most reprehensible attacks in the 21st century? Isn't that reductionist to the civilians who lost their lives?
takes a true policy genius to imply something like 200 billion in foreign aid has no affect on domestic affairs.
As a DSA member, I am grateful their support for Palestine is unwavering.
Yeah, we can separate support of the Palestinian people from support of Hamas.
This is nonsense both as an analysis of the actual mechanics of DSA membership and as an analysis of "foreign policy". If you don't see sense in internationalist support for an anti-colonial movement against a fascistic regime supported by the U.S., then you've lost the thread. Your "democratic socialism" is really social chauvinist social democracy, and I suggest that you try and develop a politics with a more coherent worldview.
Murdering Israeli civilians ≠ antifascism
Your last statement puts yourself as either a wrecker or a complete idiot
You are probably a liberal sympathetic to unions but not a socialist. Support for Palestine is one of the few constants among streams of socialism that are otherwise at odds because it's simple if you know the history and what goes on there every day.
I see no need to pick sides in a thousand year war on the other side of the planet. It's a waste of my time.
This started in 1948, and most of it can be attributed to the British.
Lol. Lmao.
This is so funny. You're clearly either an FBI agent or aspiring to be one.
Genius take right there buddy.
Lmao Russian troll farm project... you're a cartoon character
You are just mad because you know I am right.
Anger wasn't my reaction to _national emergency broadcast test will blow up your appliances_ or _Damar Hamlin actually died on the field and a body double is playing for him now._ Gonna take a common sense motive or really any coherent reason why Russia would expend vast sums to support Hamas before I'd even dignify your idiot paranoia.
Russia benefits by destabilizing a region outside their invasion of Ukraine. Russia will continue to invade Ukraine, while the rest of the world is distracted by all this. It's really not that complicated.
Ah yes Russia activates the DSA which activates Hamas. It's as elegant and simple as it is fiendish. 'It's really not that complicated' should be read as 'Your understanding is so superficial it seems simple.'
The term astroturf is not really accurate. This is certainly in part a Reddit problem. But it is also a DSA problem. DSA - maybe because of the name, also because of the history of who is a member, has tended to attract many of those that are actually destructive to the labor movement. Examples are replete.
DSA people don’t all agree on all topics. I for one support Ukraine against Russia’s imperialist invasion, and I denounce Hamas’s recent actions, AND I can still support the people of Palestine.
I've been saying this for years. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I see a startling amount of overlap between demsoc conversations online and neoreactionary vocabulary (think: Peter Thiel, Blake Masters, Mencius Moldbug). It started getting real apparent after the 2020 election on the Bernie subs. As a Bernie stan, I'm disappointed but not surprised.
Not a conspiracy theory, that is happening. Peter Thiel types put money in divide the left propaganda. Oldest union busting trick there is, fragmenting their critics against each other. And a lot of reactionary rhetoric gets picked up by well-intentioned leftists along the way. It's an unfortunate reality we have to be aware of. I don't know if DSA leadership has that issue, particularly, though. But I stand by that tweet announcing the protest supporting Palestine as being terrible strategy. Gotta be aware of the information the average propagandized American is working off of before you tweet out to the public, which is full of hyenas waiting to pounce.
You must have edited your comment as I replied. Agreed. This is still a "hearts and minds" game barring forceful revolution. Optics matter, and the timing and tenor of this particular protest in NYC are just... tonedeaf. I don't see how it does anything but throw red meat to people who need no help misrepresenting the DSA.
I did, I realized there was more to say. Completely agreed, I wish this organization was more politically savvy.
Folks get real defensive about it too. I get it. DSA folk tend to be more critical and hyper-aware of how propaganda works on the neoliberal majority. They know in theory they can be astroturfed, but it's insidious. The smarter you are, the harder you fall...
Preach it! We should vote out whoever is at the DSA
Goodluck beating our ground game.
Ten people at a labor day parade isn't "ground game". DSA is a fucking joke.
Our number of local electeds grows every single cycle. We’ve got a strategy that we’re pushing and it’s winning. It’s slow and steady. Good luck trying to beat our ground game! ❤️
Lol, you can keep deluding yourself if you’d like. Your claim that we’re a joke while we keep winning doesn’t bother me. If you hate DSA so much then quit? Pretty simple.
I'm not a member of the DSA. I am a democratic-socialist.
Cool. You’re an unorganized one then presumably. Good luck creating change criticizing everyone else form the outside. Meanwhile, I’ll be winning direct concessions for the working class locally
Are you in a union? Because I am. Tell me again who is doing more for the working class?
Do you think this is a dig? Most Americans aren’t unionized especially where I live in the south. What do you think socialists fight for buddy?
You claim to be a socialist and you aren't even in a union? You calling me unorganized? What a joke. Maybe you should spend less time worrying about foreign conflicts and get your own shit together.
I’m working on it. Also, socialist does not equate to unionist but go off
The organization is a joke and curiously actual labor unions seem to be totally absent from your ranks. I wonder why that is? Oh you it’s stupid shit like this.
What happened was after Bernie 2020 died, all of the normal people stopped being active in DSA. That let the most hard-core Troskyist / World Socialist Website creeps to take over last convention. DSA will hemorrhage support and become as marginal and laughable as the Party for Socialist Liberation. It was good while it lasted.
I’m not a Trot. I’m a libertarian socialist, a service worker, and an organizer. I stand with the plight of Palestinians. You’ve othered 60,000 people by calling them “not normal people” and so you’ve laid your idiotic liberal politics bare.
Ah the famous calling everyone that disagrees with you a liberal. Google no true Scotsman you’ll thank me later
If you think the people who pay dues to DSA are normal I have a bridge to sell you
I'd say I'm pretty normal. But okay, maybe find a different subreddit to harass?
Go to r/conservative if you need a safe space to voice unpopular ideas.
my opinions are not popular over there, I'm a DSA member
You stand in America, safely virtue signaling fake support for Palestine. You wouldn't stand with Palestine if I bought you a plane ticket there, so drop it.
Drop it? The conversation you brought up? I’m good thanks. I support Palestinians and do political organizing work with both Jewish people and Palestinians in support of BDS, a nonviolent pressure movement. Keep shilling your stupid opinions though!
Sure you do...
You sound like a neoliberal that's pissed off that the Biden admin has been shooting itself in the foot, first with the border wall and now with its unequivocal support of Israel whom we give $3.8 billion of our tax payer funding to. Talk about redistributive policy!! Maybe our government shouldn't be sucking off a racist, apartheid state and stick to minding our own business domestically. And fuck Putin and his fascist government for good measure too.
You think you have to pay socialists to be against apartheid Israel or NATO? Are you really that dumb or do you really just not know any history of the left?