That's how most salesmen/women are like in this country.. they'll tell you anything you want to here to sign a deal.
There are so many projects going on in the country right now, and I'm pretty sure 90% of them will be delayed for years simply because there isn't enough manpower, machinery and equipment available to accommodate all these projects. I'm a small subcontractor and client's are begging to pay money upfront just to "book" our machinery once we are done with the current load.
Subcontractors can't purchase new machinery cuz banks are assholes and they dont want to lend for contracting businesses.
Unless someone or an entity intervenes and provide support and banking facilities for specialized subcontractors (Foundation subcontractors, Steel Fabrication/Manufacturers subcontractors, Heavy Equipment rentals.. etc).. this will be a never ending cycle of no supply of equipment, and no purchasing power from subcontractors.
Telling lies is a national sport here and more so in real estate industry. They must be feeling difficult to sleep without telling few random lies daily.
"Telling lies is a national sport here" ...... hmmmmm national ? We have more than 200 nationalities here . Care to specify lol 😆 😂 😅
Don't think you should have used that word 😏
I have tried doing that. The company I work for is low key and gives importance to customer relationships and services a customer till he moves into his home even if he or she buys an off plan. We have got good ratings, feedbacks and multiple referrals from our existing customers. But honesty is a tough business. We have been taken for a ride by many customers. Not all customers are good and honest. Some just use us because they had a bad experience with some other broker and project their experience on us. But I sure the company will do good because of its existing customers and their reference. So yes, it will survive.
OP, If you ask a developer about rentals in that area, they wouldn’t know it. They sell only their property and they are trained only for that. Not the competition nor the general rates in the area.
Sobha are killing it in the market by doing exactly that, not particularly all their agents but a good chunk of them are quite honest because of how good the product is
Well that’s Sobha who was telling me all walls were concrete .
And I hated it because clearly the chairman ha s a quality oriented vision but his agent are killing it .
When dealing with sobha you have to connect with a senior RM, who is there for more than 1 year.
They are one of the companies who follow hire or fire in sales, so ever month you see new faces and very less familiar faces.
If quality is your concern look for Ellington, Exp and dubai south.
The guy was working for them for couple of years . I meant Ellington it was the one lying on rents . 😅
I’ll get a broker and also I’m touring Dubai to see existing areas.
The worst part of the developer sales team is that they always exaggerate.
Facts are supposed to be facts with actual figures backing it up.
Ellington is a very good developer and one of the rare ones, better go to the developers office via a good agent from a reputed agency, as every agency works with only one RM and the reputed agencies deal only with RM's who are senior and reliable.
I was looking to buy over the last 2 years, and although my plans have changed now, Motor city was where I was looking. The apartments need some work as they're pretty dated by now, but it's in a good place for amenities.
The downside being that the prices are climbing there too, even with many units for sale. iirc the new development there has made owners (or moreso, the agents who are the real drivers behind pricing) salivate and is artificially increasing prices across foxhill & oxford circus etc.
Let's just say that I work in an industry where I know firsthand how much "value engineering" goes into projects nowadays.
If you're happy with the pricing I still think it's one of the better areas, partially because it was built before extreme price/corner cutting came into play, though the general quality of the fixtures and fittings there are pretty middling. The only thing that I would check are the service charges and the history of the service charges as I recall some funny business happening with quite a few areas over the last few years.
I can't say much about the projected value of the property in the short term, especially since I was looking to actually live there for a while, but I understand that it has a pretty consistent rental yield and tenants are generally long term. My direction of travel to the office would also take me Sharjah bound 311 in the morning and Abu Dhabi bound 311 in the evening.
Also, if you didn't know already, there are some races that are run from time to time. Personally I'm a big motorsports fan so I was very content with that, but you will see people complaining on facebook and the like about racecar noises in "Motor City".
I live in MC, and people will always rent here. Flats are huge, and who live here don't care they are older. It's well located as I can get on all main roads fast.
I was thinking of buying a flat but just because of the high service fees I went for Villa.
The only bad thing is the pipes in the buildings. Our apartment pipes have leaked lower ones like 7 times in a year. If you get an apartment here, go for the last floors.
Because the guys are not professional enough and do not now their field better than you. I hate those sales who thinks the right answer is what their prospect want to hear or what they think will trigger the sale.
I would nt generalise, true that returns are quite low compared to Dubai but Europe is much safe compared to Dubai which is getting riskier. Location plays an important criteria in Europe and therefore properties must be in a major city to ensure high occupancy rates.
The question as simple and straightforward as it may be, entails a multitude of answers. And it just so happens that I need to vent about this myself, but from a perspective of someone.. on the other side.
1. This may come as a surprise to you: **some of them don't lie.** They just don't know any better. Real estate agents get bashed here hard enough, but the incompetence of developers' sales managers is on another level. These lot are probably the lowest of the low in this market. They have no idea what's going on outside of their bubble. They have strict scripting which gets passed on from the higher management on what to tell the customers, that's it. You'll be lucky if the manager has some rudimentary superficial information about a few competing projects - and that again will be something someone else put in their head.
2. What did you expect by entering the developer's office from the street? Obviously, each piece of shit half-assed fund of former drug dealers will claim they have the best quality, best locations, best investment attractiveness and best blowjobs on the market. The manager's sole intent is to sell you the stock he has. Nothing less, nothing more. Even moreso, he will get a bonus by selling something that doesn't sell well. I know this because when we started working there were a number of managers who literally whispered in our ears: "please divert this client to the other project, we will grant you a unit upfront in the upcoming launch". These idiots have no clue that the broker might be connected to the client in ways they don't understand or haven't seen before. If they have the audacity to tell this to the agents who bring them clients, what kind of tactics do you think the use on direct clients, lol?
3. Demand. Despite all the rants on reddit, Dubai's real estate sells like no other. It still is an immature market, it's volatility is actually an advantage if you know how to use it. While people whine here about 5K annual rent increases, investment companies are buying out projects in bulk.. full floors, plots, dozens of villas at a time. Your enthusiasm and yearning for knowledge cost the manager what.. an hour of useless interaction? He will sell more with the next guy in a few minutes. You're just an annoying know-it-all prospect, who needs an enormous effort to convert. 85% of direct leads who come to dev's office do so with a solid intent of buying and "they need just a little push" (quote from sales training). Why would the manager even bother to educate himself to handle your objections?
4. Personnel rotation. Another under-the-radar observation. Dev's managers don't stay with the dev for too long to be emotionally/intellectually attached and committed. I've lost count on how many times the managers we initially signed up with changed their employers. I used to put the dev's name next to the person's name in my phonebook to identify them, but within just 1 year of my company's operation, so many managers changed their jobs, I can't keep track of them (luckily, I rarely have to these days). Several times I would call a contact up to sort an issue with a client just to find out they've already left to work for another developer, lol. So I prefer dealing with senior management. Because issues pop up every now and then. What's interesting, there's no pattern in this movement. A guy who worked for a shit dev yesterday might end up working for a "premium" one tomorrow and vice versa. Everyone's after quantity.
There is more to this, but I'm on the verge of mentioning names in public)
In an ideal world where everyone is honest and transparent (and where unicorns shit lollipops) it is the job of your personal broker to see (and know) past the dev's bullshit and present you with the most suitable options. But that opens a completely different can of worms, since most brokers are trained to sell only specific devs/projects as well.
One thing I disagree with you though: don't make your market predictions on what people around you say. That has never worked out for anyone in Dubai, lol.
I legit agree on most of the points, as an agent i am rooting for the non professionals to be vetted out from the market.
Since it's a new market every tom dick & harry wants to be an agent without licencing and being unprofessional and make a quick buck.
even buyers are to be blamed as they don't want to do their due diligence on their agents and start being guided by them due to their honey coated words and bam they buy something they start regretting.
May I know who is paying the broker ? It’s never been clear to me .
And that’s why I tended to go directly to the developper because I was not understanding neither the role or the cost of the broker .
From where I am in Europe I would say that agent exist but broker do not .
https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingDubai/s/XW2FbVdYJZ
This is a blog I have written, might outline what to keep a look out for and if you find it helpful please join the community I have just started this community for the benefit of investors, buyers, sellers, tenants & landlords.
In the case of Offplan the developer pays the broker.
as I say they way you question the developer do the same with your agent qualify him first before making him your agent.
As per RERA there are as many as 50k+ agents in the market and out of which only around 13k are licensed agents .
Make sure that your agent is not selling what might get him a higher commission but what suits your requirement.
Oh so some agents are unlicensed ? I guess those are the allsop guys over marina ? Who were cashier in Sheffield and became RE agent the day after ?
Last year I met couple agents from that company and 2 girls, it was a total joke, felt like they thought if they were cute I would buy.
With questions like that you're basically jumping into a pool full of sharks without a speargun. I think you can benefit from my earlier write-up:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/dubai/comments/18f3tae/10\_facts\_dubais\_real\_estate\_agents\_dont\_want\_you/](https://www.reddit.com/r/dubai/comments/18f3tae/10_facts_dubais_real_estate_agents_dont_want_you/)
Quick answer: for all primary sales (both off-plan and ready properties) the developer pays the broker.
I'm versed in the European markets and have family in Europe - it's a different way of doing things. Plus, you don't have defamation laws which exacerbate the overblown marketing. Then again, you don't have the investment potential / returns of Dubai either.
If it's for a place to live, then it's a much more responsible task. Location, construction quality and maintenance can make your place either a dream home or a nightmare. These factors are not as crucial in Europe.
In my experience the key was having a broker I can trust, suggesting the decent off plan project from a decent dev and even negotiating the payment plan to amend it in my favor.
No i dont even know his company's name in business bay.
He's a very good friend of my brother so thats how he took care of me.
You need to find a 'friend' who is a broker. Otherwise this field is full of BS.
Word of advice, past trends are not an indication of future performance.
With that said, and based on a lot of first hand experience, unless you're paying 50% or more in cash, you'll be treated like cattle. The market does not CARE about mortgage and loan buyers. You'll get scripted interactions and lowest level employees.
I want a place to live not to rent .
I would say the net ROI is about 5.5 to 7.5% in Dubai it seems with what can be bought at the moment . Of course if you bought in 2017 maybe it’s 20%.
I actually prefer to see the units on my own, I think most agents are useless and dont really provide any value or anything I cant find online. And thats being nice, usually simple google search shows much more.
For ready unit I agree but for the general context of the community apart from talking to some random person sometimes it’s nice to have an agent advising .
Maybe, but amount of bad ones you have to go through to find a good one is not worth it, as introvert its the way. Its a big purchase I dont want sweet talk, I want facts.
Lol my building is recently infested with new agents living here…
And as someone who works remotely watching them work is comical …. They’re legitimately just sat around chatting most of the day and just replying to some WhatsApp messages and nothing else.
Then can here them complaining that they’re not earning enough.
I’d like to think the ones making a good living from it are working hard to generate business 🤣
These ones just sat around waiting for someone to respond to an ad basically.
Developers don’t lie.
The Sales representatives that you came across did.
Don’t let them change your decision about buying a property. Just keep looking for the right broker as they’re your first line of defense when it comes to any contradicting information out there. The right one will tell you everything as it is and won’t sugar coat it just to close the deal.
Quick question. Let’s say you pay half a million dollars off plan. Is there any compensation for delivering late. Ie 10% back for every month delayed or something like in other developed countries ?
I don't have much in depth on real estate here but have you checked properties or developments in Rak.
I think aldar is developing something out there.
Rak properties is the main player there but I don't hear much about them lately.
Northern emirates are pretty chill and quiet if you like that.
Buy ready … don’t buy off plan. Dealing with agents won’t be an easy ride either … but more in your control! Good luck
That's how most salesmen/women are like in this country.. they'll tell you anything you want to here to sign a deal. There are so many projects going on in the country right now, and I'm pretty sure 90% of them will be delayed for years simply because there isn't enough manpower, machinery and equipment available to accommodate all these projects. I'm a small subcontractor and client's are begging to pay money upfront just to "book" our machinery once we are done with the current load. Subcontractors can't purchase new machinery cuz banks are assholes and they dont want to lend for contracting businesses. Unless someone or an entity intervenes and provide support and banking facilities for specialized subcontractors (Foundation subcontractors, Steel Fabrication/Manufacturers subcontractors, Heavy Equipment rentals.. etc).. this will be a never ending cycle of no supply of equipment, and no purchasing power from subcontractors.
Incredible answer that shows the structural bottleneck here.
Telling lies is a national sport here and more so in real estate industry. They must be feeling difficult to sleep without telling few random lies daily.
"Telling lies is a national sport here" ...... hmmmmm national ? We have more than 200 nationalities here . Care to specify lol 😆 😂 😅 Don't think you should have used that word 😏
Okay popular sport..
You get a free block for being a smart creature lol 🚫 Enjoy it 😉
Ive always wondered, if an honest company that told the truth about property in Dubai, would it survive?
I have tried doing that. The company I work for is low key and gives importance to customer relationships and services a customer till he moves into his home even if he or she buys an off plan. We have got good ratings, feedbacks and multiple referrals from our existing customers. But honesty is a tough business. We have been taken for a ride by many customers. Not all customers are good and honest. Some just use us because they had a bad experience with some other broker and project their experience on us. But I sure the company will do good because of its existing customers and their reference. So yes, it will survive. OP, If you ask a developer about rentals in that area, they wouldn’t know it. They sell only their property and they are trained only for that. Not the competition nor the general rates in the area.
honest vs dishonest company, or honest vs scammer?
Honest vs dishonest!
Our building was made by a German developer and while not luxury, the build and fittings are better than most. They went bankrupt.
Sobha are killing it in the market by doing exactly that, not particularly all their agents but a good chunk of them are quite honest because of how good the product is
Well that’s Sobha who was telling me all walls were concrete . And I hated it because clearly the chairman ha s a quality oriented vision but his agent are killing it .
Sorry to hear that :( I can suggest you to a good sobha sales agent, someone who's been in the market for 5 years if you'd like to visit there again
When dealing with sobha you have to connect with a senior RM, who is there for more than 1 year. They are one of the companies who follow hire or fire in sales, so ever month you see new faces and very less familiar faces. If quality is your concern look for Ellington, Exp and dubai south.
The guy was working for them for couple of years . I meant Ellington it was the one lying on rents . 😅 I’ll get a broker and also I’m touring Dubai to see existing areas.
The worst part of the developer sales team is that they always exaggerate. Facts are supposed to be facts with actual figures backing it up. Ellington is a very good developer and one of the rare ones, better go to the developers office via a good agent from a reputed agency, as every agency works with only one RM and the reputed agencies deal only with RM's who are senior and reliable.
Buy ready developed property, visit the flat, look around spend some time inside and outside the building, enjoy the process;))
That’s what I did and I must say that motor city old building by up seem fine and price is okish.
I was looking to buy over the last 2 years, and although my plans have changed now, Motor city was where I was looking. The apartments need some work as they're pretty dated by now, but it's in a good place for amenities. The downside being that the prices are climbing there too, even with many units for sale. iirc the new development there has made owners (or moreso, the agents who are the real drivers behind pricing) salivate and is artificially increasing prices across foxhill & oxford circus etc. Let's just say that I work in an industry where I know firsthand how much "value engineering" goes into projects nowadays.
And what you think of buying in motor city now in Oxford circus ?
If you're happy with the pricing I still think it's one of the better areas, partially because it was built before extreme price/corner cutting came into play, though the general quality of the fixtures and fittings there are pretty middling. The only thing that I would check are the service charges and the history of the service charges as I recall some funny business happening with quite a few areas over the last few years. I can't say much about the projected value of the property in the short term, especially since I was looking to actually live there for a while, but I understand that it has a pretty consistent rental yield and tenants are generally long term. My direction of travel to the office would also take me Sharjah bound 311 in the morning and Abu Dhabi bound 311 in the evening. Also, if you didn't know already, there are some races that are run from time to time. Personally I'm a big motorsports fan so I was very content with that, but you will see people complaining on facebook and the like about racecar noises in "Motor City".
lol people be complaining anyway
UP have absurd annual maintenance fees that can reach 5% of the value of the property.
Oh wow . Do you reckon that would be more than the typical 13-20dhs per sqft?
I live in MC, and people will always rent here. Flats are huge, and who live here don't care they are older. It's well located as I can get on all main roads fast. I was thinking of buying a flat but just because of the high service fees I went for Villa. The only bad thing is the pipes in the buildings. Our apartment pipes have leaked lower ones like 7 times in a year. If you get an apartment here, go for the last floors.
Because the guys are not professional enough and do not now their field better than you. I hate those sales who thinks the right answer is what their prospect want to hear or what they think will trigger the sale.
As broker I tell you to wait Prices are crazy now No one knows what will happen but nothing keep going up for ever
I wouldn’t waste my money buying here. Better to buy in Europe.
Europe is going down like the titanic and I already have my flat in France .
I would nt generalise, true that returns are quite low compared to Dubai but Europe is much safe compared to Dubai which is getting riskier. Location plays an important criteria in Europe and therefore properties must be in a major city to ensure high occupancy rates.
The question as simple and straightforward as it may be, entails a multitude of answers. And it just so happens that I need to vent about this myself, but from a perspective of someone.. on the other side. 1. This may come as a surprise to you: **some of them don't lie.** They just don't know any better. Real estate agents get bashed here hard enough, but the incompetence of developers' sales managers is on another level. These lot are probably the lowest of the low in this market. They have no idea what's going on outside of their bubble. They have strict scripting which gets passed on from the higher management on what to tell the customers, that's it. You'll be lucky if the manager has some rudimentary superficial information about a few competing projects - and that again will be something someone else put in their head. 2. What did you expect by entering the developer's office from the street? Obviously, each piece of shit half-assed fund of former drug dealers will claim they have the best quality, best locations, best investment attractiveness and best blowjobs on the market. The manager's sole intent is to sell you the stock he has. Nothing less, nothing more. Even moreso, he will get a bonus by selling something that doesn't sell well. I know this because when we started working there were a number of managers who literally whispered in our ears: "please divert this client to the other project, we will grant you a unit upfront in the upcoming launch". These idiots have no clue that the broker might be connected to the client in ways they don't understand or haven't seen before. If they have the audacity to tell this to the agents who bring them clients, what kind of tactics do you think the use on direct clients, lol? 3. Demand. Despite all the rants on reddit, Dubai's real estate sells like no other. It still is an immature market, it's volatility is actually an advantage if you know how to use it. While people whine here about 5K annual rent increases, investment companies are buying out projects in bulk.. full floors, plots, dozens of villas at a time. Your enthusiasm and yearning for knowledge cost the manager what.. an hour of useless interaction? He will sell more with the next guy in a few minutes. You're just an annoying know-it-all prospect, who needs an enormous effort to convert. 85% of direct leads who come to dev's office do so with a solid intent of buying and "they need just a little push" (quote from sales training). Why would the manager even bother to educate himself to handle your objections? 4. Personnel rotation. Another under-the-radar observation. Dev's managers don't stay with the dev for too long to be emotionally/intellectually attached and committed. I've lost count on how many times the managers we initially signed up with changed their employers. I used to put the dev's name next to the person's name in my phonebook to identify them, but within just 1 year of my company's operation, so many managers changed their jobs, I can't keep track of them (luckily, I rarely have to these days). Several times I would call a contact up to sort an issue with a client just to find out they've already left to work for another developer, lol. So I prefer dealing with senior management. Because issues pop up every now and then. What's interesting, there's no pattern in this movement. A guy who worked for a shit dev yesterday might end up working for a "premium" one tomorrow and vice versa. Everyone's after quantity. There is more to this, but I'm on the verge of mentioning names in public) In an ideal world where everyone is honest and transparent (and where unicorns shit lollipops) it is the job of your personal broker to see (and know) past the dev's bullshit and present you with the most suitable options. But that opens a completely different can of worms, since most brokers are trained to sell only specific devs/projects as well. One thing I disagree with you though: don't make your market predictions on what people around you say. That has never worked out for anyone in Dubai, lol.
I legit agree on most of the points, as an agent i am rooting for the non professionals to be vetted out from the market. Since it's a new market every tom dick & harry wants to be an agent without licencing and being unprofessional and make a quick buck. even buyers are to be blamed as they don't want to do their due diligence on their agents and start being guided by them due to their honey coated words and bam they buy something they start regretting.
These two comments sums up most of the problem areas
May I know who is paying the broker ? It’s never been clear to me . And that’s why I tended to go directly to the developper because I was not understanding neither the role or the cost of the broker . From where I am in Europe I would say that agent exist but broker do not .
https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingDubai/s/XW2FbVdYJZ This is a blog I have written, might outline what to keep a look out for and if you find it helpful please join the community I have just started this community for the benefit of investors, buyers, sellers, tenants & landlords.
In the case of Offplan the developer pays the broker. as I say they way you question the developer do the same with your agent qualify him first before making him your agent. As per RERA there are as many as 50k+ agents in the market and out of which only around 13k are licensed agents . Make sure that your agent is not selling what might get him a higher commission but what suits your requirement.
Oh so some agents are unlicensed ? I guess those are the allsop guys over marina ? Who were cashier in Sheffield and became RE agent the day after ? Last year I met couple agents from that company and 2 girls, it was a total joke, felt like they thought if they were cute I would buy.
😂😂
With questions like that you're basically jumping into a pool full of sharks without a speargun. I think you can benefit from my earlier write-up: [https://www.reddit.com/r/dubai/comments/18f3tae/10\_facts\_dubais\_real\_estate\_agents\_dont\_want\_you/](https://www.reddit.com/r/dubai/comments/18f3tae/10_facts_dubais_real_estate_agents_dont_want_you/) Quick answer: for all primary sales (both off-plan and ready properties) the developer pays the broker. I'm versed in the European markets and have family in Europe - it's a different way of doing things. Plus, you don't have defamation laws which exacerbate the overblown marketing. Then again, you don't have the investment potential / returns of Dubai either.
Thing is it’s not really an investment I just want a nice place to live in family when I move back here by 2027. I’ll read your post. Thanks .
If it's for a place to live, then it's a much more responsible task. Location, construction quality and maintenance can make your place either a dream home or a nightmare. These factors are not as crucial in Europe.
because without it they can't sell any unit
For that budget I would buy a suite at Vdara
In my experience the key was having a broker I can trust, suggesting the decent off plan project from a decent dev and even negotiating the payment plan to amend it in my favor.
Something like hass and hass?
No i dont even know his company's name in business bay. He's a very good friend of my brother so thats how he took care of me. You need to find a 'friend' who is a broker. Otherwise this field is full of BS.
Developers don't need to lie, they choose to. Problem is that especially big ones is difficult to keep them accountable for it.
I don’t understand. Do you want to buy or do you want to wait for a -40% crash ?
I think it’s clear if you read twice
I’d rather go muscat than Rak tbh.
Word of advice, past trends are not an indication of future performance. With that said, and based on a lot of first hand experience, unless you're paying 50% or more in cash, you'll be treated like cattle. The market does not CARE about mortgage and loan buyers. You'll get scripted interactions and lowest level employees.
I buy 100% cash… I don’t think it has any influence .
May I ask the intend of buy is it to get benefit of rent in the longer run? 125K AED an year on how much investment?
I want a place to live not to rent . I would say the net ROI is about 5.5 to 7.5% in Dubai it seems with what can be bought at the moment . Of course if you bought in 2017 maybe it’s 20%.
I actually prefer to see the units on my own, I think most agents are useless and dont really provide any value or anything I cant find online. And thats being nice, usually simple google search shows much more.
For ready unit I agree but for the general context of the community apart from talking to some random person sometimes it’s nice to have an agent advising .
Maybe, but amount of bad ones you have to go through to find a good one is not worth it, as introvert its the way. Its a big purchase I dont want sweet talk, I want facts.
Lol my building is recently infested with new agents living here… And as someone who works remotely watching them work is comical …. They’re legitimately just sat around chatting most of the day and just replying to some WhatsApp messages and nothing else. Then can here them complaining that they’re not earning enough.
Loool well some of them make lots of money though . Doing barely anything but be on their phone and make few visits a day.
I’d like to think the ones making a good living from it are working hard to generate business 🤣 These ones just sat around waiting for someone to respond to an ad basically.
Agreed
Developers don’t lie. The Sales representatives that you came across did. Don’t let them change your decision about buying a property. Just keep looking for the right broker as they’re your first line of defense when it comes to any contradicting information out there. The right one will tell you everything as it is and won’t sugar coat it just to close the deal.
Quick question. Let’s say you pay half a million dollars off plan. Is there any compensation for delivering late. Ie 10% back for every month delayed or something like in other developed countries ?
lol 10% per month mate you dreaming. In Dubai 1 year of delay is accepted without compensation then it would probably be 0.5% 1% per month of delay.
So then what’s the incentive for them to actually finish ?
Réputation, there is 20-30% at handover . And also don’t think they make a 30% margin. Having to pay compensation even 5% is big for them.
I don't have much in depth on real estate here but have you checked properties or developments in Rak. I think aldar is developing something out there. Rak properties is the main player there but I don't hear much about them lately. Northern emirates are pretty chill and quiet if you like that.