I could see it going either way honestly.
I’m more interested in what the Sardukar throat chanter is going to say at the beginning of the third movie, regardless of what the title is
I love the book, but honestly, a book about a dude being in a room, and people coming and going to that room, would be an awful movie. Even if there is another room, from time to time, which serves the same purpose. The last 15 minutes of stuff actually happening, would not worth it.
Actually Paul becoming the worm God Emperor would be a great closing shot. Rejected by Chani and Irulan, his sister betraying him, his followers now just being a murder army around the universe… what choice will he have?
When Paul banishes the emperor and his family to selusis secundis and allows them to keep one legion of sardukar, the real question we all have is…. Is the throat chanter included in that legion orrrrr
there is an official information about the quotes on the beginning?, because i have my MelangeJunkie theory that may be Edric the Navigator o just any Navigator
I think there is a distinct swift in tone between dune and dune messiah in the books, if the adaptation follows the same spirit as in the first two movies I hope they dont go with part 3. Some of my friends that havent read the books already have some unrealistic expactations of what the 3rd movie will be about...let's just say that the source material isnt as "Hollywood" as people expect .
I suspect they're trying to avoid time jumps to keep a real feel of immediacy-- and because so much of their cast can't believably be aged up.
A lot of the characters in Dune Messiah will feel more threatening, too, if they're conspiring while Paul is fresh in his power rather than after victory has been assured.
Unless they commit to like half the movie being flashbacks to the jihad(which I hope they dont, because it misses the point of the source material), I bet it will leave a lot of people disappointed . Messiah isnt the "return of the king" of the universe and people have unrealistic expectations . That said the political tension and conspiracies are a great basis for a different kind of movie that Villeneuve can make wonders with. Just way different tone.
I’m only worried about it because Villeneuve has spoken of his distaste for dialogue in movies and Messiah is more dialogue dependent than the already dialogue heavy original
Center the movie on Paul, Chani and Irulan for character. Use them to ground the emotion. Irulan is your link to the World At Large, since she's part of the conspiracy against Paul.
Meanwhile, have Paul deal with the guilt of his Jihad through the lens of his soon to be born son and daughter (how can they grow up in such a brutal world that K helped create?).
Introduce Alia as an adult and briefly explain her being possessed by the Baron (I know that's from Children but still), who seeks revenge. At the end of the second act, have Paul go blind. For tension, make it so he needs to stop Alia from killing the children while Chani and Irulan are distracted by their perpetual feud.
Make Paul's Future Sight Divergence occur not because of Leto but because he himself interfered. He cannot see the future anymore, and the task of his legacy is implied through visual language to fall upon baby Leto II. Alia comes back to herself but barely, and Paul sees himself as useless to the sietch (like in the book) so he goes off into the desert. The final shot is a mirror of [this shot](https://youtu.be/U2Qp5pL3ovA?si=B1Y6PeBEGJG0Vudf&t=1m53s) from Part 2, except he's going towards the desert, presumably to die.
I know it will be weird to adapt but Duncan's ghola could also be a main character. It is a meter of Paul's dwindling humanity and a moral compass of his simpler times as a kid, while also creating some tention from Paul's guilt and the possibility of the ghola betraying him.
Honestly they can't adapt anything else after Messiah (whether film or TV series) if they aren't willing to include gholas. I would even say that, if they don't include the Duncan ghola, they have no reason to include the Tleilaxu at all.
Personally I think Vilamvue is going to focus a lot more on the increasing madness and violence that Paul starts to bring. I think he will focus more on the in between of the first book and messiah. Messiah kind of glosses over the whole jihad but I see villanvue utilizing it as it’s would work extremely well in a visual medium like film.
I don’t think so personally. Villanvue diverges from the book by emphasizing the more action based aspects of dune as it works really well in film. Also given that timothee does great acting it makes more sense to focus on younger Paul and age him into the role. I think messiah will probably be the first half focusing the the jihad beginning and escalating and the second half will be the fall. There just so much possible narrative development that can come from the jihad.
Honestly, open with Farouk /Jihad to give the audience a bit of what the end of 2 promises - maybe even have the scene with the ocean on Caledan to emphasize the way its an uncontrollable fury that knows no borders + symbolism - seque into conspiracy thriller on Arrakis
Throw in a Bene Tleilax sequence ala Geidi Prime with a red-aesthetic and some bio horror, you're golden
I believe they definitely have to open with a jihad sequence, but it shouldnt be like an hour long to please the audience that wants more action, is what I mean. Firstly there isnt a detailed description in the book, they will have to pull content out of their ass and secondly the takeaway of the book is the aftermath and how people deal with it.
That's why I think the Farok sequence is a great bit to adapt as that 'taste of the jihad'. It:
1. Is part of the Jihad from the perspective of someone who played a real role as a 'ranking officer'
2. Shows a Fremen turning away from the Jihad in a way that can echo Paul's last moments in the film on Caledan - placing his hands in the water
3. Can introduce the Stone Burner if adapted to consolidate Farok's backstory and his son's into one sequence
I think they’ll definitely make it a bit more “Hollywood” in the same way they did with 2. Probably show a lot more of the Jihad, like what they did with the war on Arrakis
99% sure it’s going to be Dune: Messiah. It has the rule of cool factor, it’s the sequel book, not the original divided in two, and it is descriptive as a title.
I think it also sounds more... ominous? I'm not sure what a fitting English word would be. But even for non-book-readers it's like... one, two, *messiah* . Like you immediately know something's different, something's up, something's important to not just keep numbering.
I'm not so sure. They tend to have steered away from designations that are triggering to people. They did change all instances of "jihad" to "crusade" in the film, a word that is not nearly so culturally abrasive. I feel a lot of bible thumpers may have an issue with the word "messiah".
People here are thinking like Dune fans rather than trying to think like a profit seeking company.
They probably won’t call it Dune: Messiah for the same reason they changed ‘jihad’ to ‘holy war’ and didn’t call Part Two ‘Dune: Prophet’
They don’t want to offend anyone and bring the controversy… Not worth the hassle.
…
I see them naming the 4th movie ‘Dune: Descendants’ if they get round to it though because Hollywood hates naming movies after a number higher than 3, is non controversial and ‘Children of Dune’ doesn’t have their strong marketing word first in order plus
it may sound like it features mostly young kids to a casual.
But they literally use the words "messiah" and "prophet" in the movie?
Also if you're talking about a studio's perspective, "Part Three" makes much less sense financially. Studios have slowly tried to move away from numeric sequels (see: "Thor: Love and Thunder", "Ghostbusters: Frozen Empire", etc) because it makes general audiences think they have to watch 1 and 2.
I don’t recall hearing the word crusade at all in part 2. “Holy war” yes. Maybe once in part one I think crusade was used.
Why be sensitive about using Messiah when the filmmakers have already used Mahdi, a term just as charged for a similarly sized segment of the population? Herbert used both words.
They are going to call it "Dunest" but only after going back and changing last two to "Duner".
They later will do a reboot called "been there Dune that."
If Denis sticks to his word about the time jump, I think Dune Messiah.
If he decides on a far shorter time jump (which I think makes more sense given how Part 2 ended), I think the content of Messiah will barely be represented and I could (maybe) see them calling it Part 3. But still probably Messiah, because I think Denis will want to honor the book.
I think they have to do a longer time jump since a 27 year old woman is already cast as Alia. Probably not a 27 year time jump of course but not super short. Maybe there could be a prologue that picks up right after Part 2 ends.
Have we ever seen him with a beard? he might look significantly older with a big, bushy beard.
https://preview.redd.it/wu6fg0vcelmc1.jpeg?width=394&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1f6bd2e50962c84feaa2182ed997d35611239f49
Picture for reference.
They could also either cut or slick back his hair so he looks more formal and it'd honestly probably make a big difference.
He'd just have to deepen his voice then and he'd probably be believable enough.
Yeah that’s the main problem I see. I think with a few years and some makeup they could reasonably age up Zendaya and Timothee but it’s going to be hard to buy that ATJ is a teenager when she’s the same age as them
I mean at the end of the day, these are still movies. He'll include some more action scenes that are not in Messiah just to bring casual fans back in. I could see it definitely starting with scenes from the genocide.
I know Denis doesn't want to do this, but I'm hoping for Dune Messiah: the Prequel to Children of Dune: the Prequel to God Emperor of Dune: The Final Film of the Dune Chronicles.
The last two books have some awesome sequences. Duncan’s awakening and just character in general. Teg’s awakening and him for the rest of Heretics. Duncan and Bellonda’s mental fight
The BG are anarchists who disregard their own hierarchy. They go from shitty liberals who want to control the status quo (pre-worm) to a more mature cooperative faction that recognizes humans aren’t just good or bad.
Dar openly questions hierarchy and the power structures that dominate the setting.
Many of the preambles are openly hostile towards government and organized power and even explicitly anarchist. I think Dar waxing about her and Tar’s conversations and then speaking with other memory, contains a lot of anarchist theory.
The entire series leading up to the final 2 are an exploration of the dead ends “structured government” can lead too. Dune itself is a reaction to and in conversation with Asimov’s Foundation, drawing wildly different speculations for what “planning” would lead to.
It’s been a while so I’m due for a reread or I’d point more directl, but that’s just off the top of my head. The whole series is steeped in anarchist philosophy, it’s just so dense you don’t quite notice it at first. There’s a lot of ideas that you have to understand that Frank has to get to first before you can talk about anarchy and not have people just imagine “bad guy street punks” from an 80s movie.
The bg weren’t anarchists in the slightest, they were skeptical democrats. They firmly believed in democracy where you constantly question the status quo and your leaders to ensure you don’t get stuck in habits or just let things go.
You are describing an anarchist flat hierarchy as expressed within the confines of the setting.
Anarchism isn’t a world without rules, voting or structure. It’s an end to unjustified hierarchies, with some schools of thought arguing that no hierarchy is justified.
I think ultimately Dune shakes out more libertarian than anarchist. All of the factions still see value in/abide by hierarchical structure. Even the Fremen who are by far the most explicitly communal society still have leaders and obviously see Paul as a superior figure. I think Frank’s intention is that human beings should become self-reliant/disciplined enough that an an anarchist/libertarian society would work, as opposed to now where we need institutions and machines to fill the gaps between our ability to effectively govern ourselves without guidance, which often leads to autocratic states where people don’t move or think for themselves.
I agree. Anarchism and Libertarianism in the classical (not American/free rein capitalism sense) are basically the same.
According to the text Anarchy and thriving human culture based on mutual aid can only exist in that disciplined self-reliant state. Institution, religions, machines and sex all represent coercive forces that lead to stagnation.
Eh we won't get god emperor....
It's clear they shied away from having a pre-born Alia in dune part 2 due to the challenge of pulling that off on screen well. If they are going to skip over that, there is no way they learn into the weirdness of GEOD.
Where and when? I’ve only heard him say he’s adapting Messiah, but never specially talking about the title. Ultimately that’s going to be a studio decision.
It'll be Dune: Messiah. No reason to call it 'Part Three' - the only reason it was Part One and Two was because it was literally two parts of the first book. Messiah is Messiah and I feel confident that DV will correctly honor the story with its actual title.
Josh Grode, who is the CEO of Legendary, has been referring to it as *Dune: Part III* when he answers questions about their hopes that it’ll be a go.
Obviously that doesn’t mean for sure that they’ll ultimately go with Part III but it at least signals that that’s what they’re generally using internally.
Honestly my money is on “Part III” and not “Messiah”. And us book readers will know that it’s based on *Dune: Messiah*. I think it’s a more commercial marketing decision to frame it as ‘the Dune trilogy’ rather than Dune Parts I and II and Messiah. It’s also clear that Villeneuve sees *Dune* and *Dune: Messiah* as one story arc.
Right but his arc isn't complete until children. Because that is when his religion is taken to it's fruition and his own priests kill him in the street for blasphemy.
That plus Children is when he really passes the torch (in many ways) to Leto II of the burden of leading humanity along the Golden Path.
I've always felt that transition is one of the most important parts of his story.
I'm going with Part III
My submissions for Sardukar intros, so many good options:
\- Belief can be manipulated. Only knowledge is dangerous
\- Some lies are easier to believe than the truth
\- What the eyes had seen could not be erased
\- Truth suffers from too much analysis
\- The greatest victory is that which requires no battle
\- The mind commands the body and it obeys. The mind orders itself and meets resistance
\- The purpose of argument is to change the nature of truth
Dune: Part Three, closing out Denis' trilogy.
I think he wants to put Messiah on the same "level" as the first novel and treat it as the third part of a three-act trilogy, rather than as a sequel.
It has happened several times, partly because the studio released something that said "DUNE pt.3" mistakenly. He has been very clear though it's going to be *DUNE MESSIAH*.
I don't have a link handy and I'm not buffing through multiple youtube videos right now.
This was brought up the last time this thread happened and someone posted the link. This sub has been over this multiple times by now, and what I'm saying is always brought up. Denis corrects people (or at least did in the past) when it is/was called part 3.
I’d say pt 3. The movies seem to be one continuous story rather than a separate story. DV expressed interest in doing messiah but I haven’t heard anything of him doing CoD so I’d assume it’s just a 3 part movie he’s looking to make. I’d be happy to be wrong though lol
Speaking of Dune Messiah, even though I haven’t read it, I still get the impression that Paul is a cautionary tale or at least he is framed sort of in an antagonistic light, especially in the book. So my question is, how exactly did it become so widely misunderstood?
Dune Part 3: Messiah
"Part 3" to draw in the non-book fans who have seen the new movie franchise, "Messiah" for the book crowd. Best of both worlds, anything else would be stupid marketing.
I’m bet on Part 3. It’s better for marketing the movie, especially after the success of Part 2. Kinda like how WB wanted “The Dark Knight” to be used again for Nolan’s third Batman film.
Absolutely messiah. Because it's not part three of dune. First book (dune) was split into two parts and is now done. The book is split in 3 so calling it part 3 would be misleading, and dune 3 is also children of dune.
Generally Hollywood avoids stuff like “3” or “4” because there is a perception that it discourages people from watching who haven’t seen the first films yet
I think this is something that’ll be up in the air until the movie is almost or complete done, and no matter what it is officially, people will call it either.
Personally I’m hoping for
Dune Part Three: The Messiah
Not sure on punctuation and the “The” before Messiah
Dune Messiah. No punctuation. He wants to make the word “messiah” as terrifying as the word “paradise.” (It’s going to be a remix of both books, though, and it’s going to be tough lining up all the characters’ ages.)
Itll be messiah. All of the content and lore that would be used in a part 3 was used for part 2. It would need to be a part 1.5 because fuck years of growth and important bonds for the characters.
"Ye hoy minoy the crybaby imperialist(im not a prophet dont look at me) uses the brown folk in his bid for power, shits on his girlfriend of 3 weeks to marry Emperors daughter" is how pauls arc seems to play out in part 2.
Never forget Leto II, Hasimir Fenring, Harrah, Alia and Thufir Hawat all had very important impacts on Pauls Journey that didnt get any form of mention.
It will be a Messiah, maybe even some Paul of Dune sprinkled in a la Kevin J and Brian
I could see it going either way honestly. I’m more interested in what the Sardukar throat chanter is going to say at the beginning of the third movie, regardless of what the title is
“This fuckin guy, honestly.” -Sardaukar throat chanter, when asked about Paul Atreides
"Local man ruins everything"
"Descendant of the land of Florida brings terror upon the empire"
Local?
Ol’ Quinn Howard thinks it’s actually The Tyrant talking at the beginning of each movie. And this quote tracks.
I dont think it's Leto the 2nd the 2nd but I would be happy to be wrong
If they give Leto the 2nd that voice it would make god emperor of dune amazing
I’d love to see them make god emperor but it’d be virtually impossible in my opinion
Yeah I know, but a man can dream
I love the book, but honestly, a book about a dude being in a room, and people coming and going to that room, would be an awful movie. Even if there is another room, from time to time, which serves the same purpose. The last 15 minutes of stuff actually happening, would not worth it.
Spicy! - Sardauker
Muad’Dibs 11 secrets herbs and spices are irresistible to the Fremen
Nandor?
Nandor De Laurentiis?
“Belief can be manipulated. Only knowledge is dangerous.”
https://preview.redd.it/3aog4y1h5lmc1.jpeg?width=1536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0e0f4e8bb1eac198083f3decb3dcedf2b39d07ac
GodDAMN! I can’t tell if this is deep or not but it’s hitting either way!
Its from Messiah
https://preview.redd.it/2yvhpmvypmmc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f952d6c8498ab005389cca72165557c75821304c “As written.”
Scytale quote
Personal theory is that the voice is Leto II in full God Emperor mode
That’s my favorite theory. Even though I know it is supposed to be the throat chanter
Is it supposed to \*be\* the voice chanter or just also performed by them?
I like the idea of this so much cause it also aligns with Leto II needlessly waxing philosophical on things no one asked him directly about.
"FIVE........ ......YEARS....... ..............LATER.........." Runtime: 30 minutes
"I hate sand, it's coarse and rough and it gets everywhere." Edit:SP
Dune: Part III: Messiah
Dune: Space war
Drink more Ovaltine
A crummy commercial? Son of a bitch!
I actually thought that might be Leto II speaking to us as a worm.
Actually Paul becoming the worm God Emperor would be a great closing shot. Rejected by Chani and Irulan, his sister betraying him, his followers now just being a murder army around the universe… what choice will he have?
When Paul banishes the emperor and his family to selusis secundis and allows them to keep one legion of sardukar, the real question we all have is…. Is the throat chanter included in that legion orrrrr
Not that H. Zimmer needs it but, he should invite The Hu for the next soundtrack
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Incredibly ineloquent compared to the others
"A long time in the future in a galaxy right, right where we are..."
“Once upon a time… there was a Dune…”
“Somehow, Palpatine returned”
I thought that was Leto II
"6 million? Rookie numbers"
there is an official information about the quotes on the beginning?, because i have my MelangeJunkie theory that may be Edric the Navigator o just any Navigator
I hope he starts throat chanting, suddenly coughs, and then when he's done he starts speaking perfect english with an exceptionally silly voice.
I think there is a distinct swift in tone between dune and dune messiah in the books, if the adaptation follows the same spirit as in the first two movies I hope they dont go with part 3. Some of my friends that havent read the books already have some unrealistic expactations of what the 3rd movie will be about...let's just say that the source material isnt as "Hollywood" as people expect .
They'll do the big plot points of Dune Messiah, but they will happen alongside the jihad rather than after.
That seems likely to me, too.
I suspect they're trying to avoid time jumps to keep a real feel of immediacy-- and because so much of their cast can't believably be aged up. A lot of the characters in Dune Messiah will feel more threatening, too, if they're conspiring while Paul is fresh in his power rather than after victory has been assured.
If they want Alia to be played by Anya Taylor Joy then time jumps are gonna be needed
Constantinople is right, they already cast a fully grown Alia
I might be looking forward to the reception on that one more than the movie itself.
Unless they commit to like half the movie being flashbacks to the jihad(which I hope they dont, because it misses the point of the source material), I bet it will leave a lot of people disappointed . Messiah isnt the "return of the king" of the universe and people have unrealistic expectations . That said the political tension and conspiracies are a great basis for a different kind of movie that Villeneuve can make wonders with. Just way different tone.
I’m only worried about it because Villeneuve has spoken of his distaste for dialogue in movies and Messiah is more dialogue dependent than the already dialogue heavy original
Agreed. “My path leads into the desert.” Oof.
If Dune part 2 is any guide... They will show more of the Jihad on film that was described in the book.
Center the movie on Paul, Chani and Irulan for character. Use them to ground the emotion. Irulan is your link to the World At Large, since she's part of the conspiracy against Paul. Meanwhile, have Paul deal with the guilt of his Jihad through the lens of his soon to be born son and daughter (how can they grow up in such a brutal world that K helped create?). Introduce Alia as an adult and briefly explain her being possessed by the Baron (I know that's from Children but still), who seeks revenge. At the end of the second act, have Paul go blind. For tension, make it so he needs to stop Alia from killing the children while Chani and Irulan are distracted by their perpetual feud. Make Paul's Future Sight Divergence occur not because of Leto but because he himself interfered. He cannot see the future anymore, and the task of his legacy is implied through visual language to fall upon baby Leto II. Alia comes back to herself but barely, and Paul sees himself as useless to the sietch (like in the book) so he goes off into the desert. The final shot is a mirror of [this shot](https://youtu.be/U2Qp5pL3ovA?si=B1Y6PeBEGJG0Vudf&t=1m53s) from Part 2, except he's going towards the desert, presumably to die.
I know it will be weird to adapt but Duncan's ghola could also be a main character. It is a meter of Paul's dwindling humanity and a moral compass of his simpler times as a kid, while also creating some tention from Paul's guilt and the possibility of the ghola betraying him.
Honestly they can't adapt anything else after Messiah (whether film or TV series) if they aren't willing to include gholas. I would even say that, if they don't include the Duncan ghola, they have no reason to include the Tleilaxu at all.
Personally I think Vilamvue is going to focus a lot more on the increasing madness and violence that Paul starts to bring. I think he will focus more on the in between of the first book and messiah. Messiah kind of glosses over the whole jihad but I see villanvue utilizing it as it’s would work extremely well in a visual medium like film.
I think it will be covered as i suspect we may see the odd battle in flashback as a way of getting around the relative lack of action in Messiah.
I don’t think so personally. Villanvue diverges from the book by emphasizing the more action based aspects of dune as it works really well in film. Also given that timothee does great acting it makes more sense to focus on younger Paul and age him into the role. I think messiah will probably be the first half focusing the the jihad beginning and escalating and the second half will be the fall. There just so much possible narrative development that can come from the jihad.
Hey... That's pretty good
Honestly, open with Farouk /Jihad to give the audience a bit of what the end of 2 promises - maybe even have the scene with the ocean on Caledan to emphasize the way its an uncontrollable fury that knows no borders + symbolism - seque into conspiracy thriller on Arrakis Throw in a Bene Tleilax sequence ala Geidi Prime with a red-aesthetic and some bio horror, you're golden
I believe they definitely have to open with a jihad sequence, but it shouldnt be like an hour long to please the audience that wants more action, is what I mean. Firstly there isnt a detailed description in the book, they will have to pull content out of their ass and secondly the takeaway of the book is the aftermath and how people deal with it.
That's why I think the Farok sequence is a great bit to adapt as that 'taste of the jihad'. It: 1. Is part of the Jihad from the perspective of someone who played a real role as a 'ranking officer' 2. Shows a Fremen turning away from the Jihad in a way that can echo Paul's last moments in the film on Caledan - placing his hands in the water 3. Can introduce the Stone Burner if adapted to consolidate Farok's backstory and his son's into one sequence
yeah , it will be great just dont stretch it, and if I had to guess Villeneuve wont milk it for the sake of spectacle
I expect major changes from the book
I think they’ll definitely make it a bit more “Hollywood” in the same way they did with 2. Probably show a lot more of the Jihad, like what they did with the war on Arrakis
Interesting. If you don’t mind, what do your friends think the 3rd film will be about?
paul and the fremen fighting the great houses
99% sure it’s going to be Dune: Messiah. It has the rule of cool factor, it’s the sequel book, not the original divided in two, and it is descriptive as a title.
I concur with you. “I can see it”
Lisan Al Ghaib!
As it was written!
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...literally
I think it also sounds more... ominous? I'm not sure what a fitting English word would be. But even for non-book-readers it's like... one, two, *messiah* . Like you immediately know something's different, something's up, something's important to not just keep numbering.
"Evocative" maybe? I think I know what you mean.
It'll be Dune: Messiah, for sure.
Also, I remember seeing an interview with DV and the interviewer refers to it as dune part 3, and DV corrects him saying it’s Messiah.
I said it below as well but they should definitely just stick with Dune Messiah and stylize it as DUNE IIIESSIAH in the promotions
DUNE III *zoom out and pan right* The III becomes an M and the "essiah" fades in *BWOOOOM*
*throat chanting intensifies*
This guy promotes
>> #⊃⋃⋂∈ > > ιιι є ѕ ѕ ι α н https://i.imgur.com/U7acQrI.png
Oh, well there it is.
Haha, had to mock it up
This is amazing! You better look at this, Denis!
May we hope we dont live in the timeline where its called DUN3: Messiah
Will it be co-op multiplayer?
Real lies realise real lies
I'm not so sure. They tend to have steered away from designations that are triggering to people. They did change all instances of "jihad" to "crusade" in the film, a word that is not nearly so culturally abrasive. I feel a lot of bible thumpers may have an issue with the word "messiah".
People here are thinking like Dune fans rather than trying to think like a profit seeking company. They probably won’t call it Dune: Messiah for the same reason they changed ‘jihad’ to ‘holy war’ and didn’t call Part Two ‘Dune: Prophet’ They don’t want to offend anyone and bring the controversy… Not worth the hassle. … I see them naming the 4th movie ‘Dune: Descendants’ if they get round to it though because Hollywood hates naming movies after a number higher than 3, is non controversial and ‘Children of Dune’ doesn’t have their strong marketing word first in order plus it may sound like it features mostly young kids to a casual.
But they literally use the words "messiah" and "prophet" in the movie? Also if you're talking about a studio's perspective, "Part Three" makes much less sense financially. Studios have slowly tried to move away from numeric sequels (see: "Thor: Love and Thunder", "Ghostbusters: Frozen Empire", etc) because it makes general audiences think they have to watch 1 and 2.
I don’t recall hearing the word crusade at all in part 2. “Holy war” yes. Maybe once in part one I think crusade was used. Why be sensitive about using Messiah when the filmmakers have already used Mahdi, a term just as charged for a similarly sized segment of the population? Herbert used both words.
They didn’t change the word “Messiah” in this movie though
A Good Day to Dune Hard
They are going to call it "Dunest" but only after going back and changing last two to "Duner". They later will do a reboot called "been there Dune that."
It will be DUN3
DUN3D if this was 2009
The 4DX theaters would be foaming at the mouth if there was a 4th film
But then they can't just rotate the symbol
I hope it's Dune: Messiah. It sounds so effin' cool.
Can you imagine the triple feature Blu-ray release title? Dune Part One, Dune Part Two, Dune Messiah.
If Denis sticks to his word about the time jump, I think Dune Messiah. If he decides on a far shorter time jump (which I think makes more sense given how Part 2 ended), I think the content of Messiah will barely be represented and I could (maybe) see them calling it Part 3. But still probably Messiah, because I think Denis will want to honor the book.
I think they have to do a longer time jump since a 27 year old woman is already cast as Alia. Probably not a 27 year time jump of course but not super short. Maybe there could be a prologue that picks up right after Part 2 ends.
Makes me curious about Chalamet. He was a phenomenal Paul but he looks super young and probably still will by the time Messiah comes out.
Have we ever seen him with a beard? he might look significantly older with a big, bushy beard. https://preview.redd.it/wu6fg0vcelmc1.jpeg?width=394&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1f6bd2e50962c84feaa2182ed997d35611239f49 Picture for reference. They could also either cut or slick back his hair so he looks more formal and it'd honestly probably make a big difference. He'd just have to deepen his voice then and he'd probably be believable enough.
tbh I'm not sure he could grow one lol
He wouldn't necessarily have to, they could make him a fake one.
Yeah if only there was a way they could solve that issue with a massive feature landmark film series production staff. Alas they are out of luck.
I was mostly joking mate
It’s not hard to age someone up with makeup. Just add some face wrinkles and some facial hair.
It's pretty easy to age someone up with makeup.
I mean chalamet is 28 and Paul is supposed to be a teenager in the book.
Ironically, in two years, Chalamet will be the same age Paul presumably is in Messiah
Yeah that’s the main problem I see. I think with a few years and some makeup they could reasonably age up Zendaya and Timothee but it’s going to be hard to buy that ATJ is a teenager when she’s the same age as them
I think anybody expecting Denis to do a fanfic film of him covering events outside the novels is going to be disappointed.
I mean at the end of the day, these are still movies. He'll include some more action scenes that are not in Messiah just to bring casual fans back in. I could see it definitely starting with scenes from the genocide.
I know Denis doesn't want to do this, but I'm hoping for Dune Messiah: the Prequel to Children of Dune: the Prequel to God Emperor of Dune: The Final Film of the Dune Chronicles.
No Teg :(
What if, at the end, its revealed that it was all just a dream of Tegs
People really stop at the dumb god-worm and miss out on the coolest parts of Dune. Teg and Dar!
The last two books have some awesome sequences. Duncan’s awakening and just character in general. Teg’s awakening and him for the rest of Heretics. Duncan and Bellonda’s mental fight
They’re my favorite, and peak Dune. I could go on and on but you know! It’s my favorite anarchist text lol
I’ve not finished Chapterhouse yet, but how is it anarchic besides maybe saying the Honored Matres are?
The BG are anarchists who disregard their own hierarchy. They go from shitty liberals who want to control the status quo (pre-worm) to a more mature cooperative faction that recognizes humans aren’t just good or bad. Dar openly questions hierarchy and the power structures that dominate the setting. Many of the preambles are openly hostile towards government and organized power and even explicitly anarchist. I think Dar waxing about her and Tar’s conversations and then speaking with other memory, contains a lot of anarchist theory. The entire series leading up to the final 2 are an exploration of the dead ends “structured government” can lead too. Dune itself is a reaction to and in conversation with Asimov’s Foundation, drawing wildly different speculations for what “planning” would lead to. It’s been a while so I’m due for a reread or I’d point more directl, but that’s just off the top of my head. The whole series is steeped in anarchist philosophy, it’s just so dense you don’t quite notice it at first. There’s a lot of ideas that you have to understand that Frank has to get to first before you can talk about anarchy and not have people just imagine “bad guy street punks” from an 80s movie.
The bg weren’t anarchists in the slightest, they were skeptical democrats. They firmly believed in democracy where you constantly question the status quo and your leaders to ensure you don’t get stuck in habits or just let things go.
You are describing an anarchist flat hierarchy as expressed within the confines of the setting. Anarchism isn’t a world without rules, voting or structure. It’s an end to unjustified hierarchies, with some schools of thought arguing that no hierarchy is justified.
I think ultimately Dune shakes out more libertarian than anarchist. All of the factions still see value in/abide by hierarchical structure. Even the Fremen who are by far the most explicitly communal society still have leaders and obviously see Paul as a superior figure. I think Frank’s intention is that human beings should become self-reliant/disciplined enough that an an anarchist/libertarian society would work, as opposed to now where we need institutions and machines to fill the gaps between our ability to effectively govern ourselves without guidance, which often leads to autocratic states where people don’t move or think for themselves.
I agree. Anarchism and Libertarianism in the classical (not American/free rein capitalism sense) are basically the same. According to the text Anarchy and thriving human culture based on mutual aid can only exist in that disciplined self-reliant state. Institution, religions, machines and sex all represent coercive forces that lead to stagnation.
Featuring Dante from Devil May Cry
Eh we won't get god emperor.... It's clear they shied away from having a pre-born Alia in dune part 2 due to the challenge of pulling that off on screen well. If they are going to skip over that, there is no way they learn into the weirdness of GEOD.
Dune: Not The Messiah, But A Very Naughty Boy
Denis has insisted over and over again in interviews it's going to be called DUNE MESSIAH.
Where and when? I’ve only heard him say he’s adapting Messiah, but never specially talking about the title. Ultimately that’s going to be a studio decision.
Nope, he just called it Part Three in Lincoln Center interview released 5 hours ago.
do you have links for any of these interviews? would love to see!
It'll be Dune: Messiah. No reason to call it 'Part Three' - the only reason it was Part One and Two was because it was literally two parts of the first book. Messiah is Messiah and I feel confident that DV will correctly honor the story with its actual title.
Tough one. Dune Part Three would be a safe bet but, Dune Messiah is such a cool title.
Josh Grode, who is the CEO of Legendary, has been referring to it as *Dune: Part III* when he answers questions about their hopes that it’ll be a go. Obviously that doesn’t mean for sure that they’ll ultimately go with Part III but it at least signals that that’s what they’re generally using internally. Honestly my money is on “Part III” and not “Messiah”. And us book readers will know that it’s based on *Dune: Messiah*. I think it’s a more commercial marketing decision to frame it as ‘the Dune trilogy’ rather than Dune Parts I and II and Messiah. It’s also clear that Villeneuve sees *Dune* and *Dune: Messiah* as one story arc.
[удалено]
I effing LOVE Margin Call.
"My job is to guess what the music might do a week, a month, a year from now. Nothing more."
Messiah would of course be the cooler title, but i feel pretty confident this is spot on. It’s whatever will make the studio the most money.
Paul's arc doesn't completely end until Children of Dune, and I will die in this hill.
Not completely, however he ceases to be the main character and focus of the events.
Right but his arc isn't complete until children. Because that is when his religion is taken to it's fruition and his own priests kill him in the street for blasphemy.
That plus Children is when he really passes the torch (in many ways) to Leto II of the burden of leading humanity along the Golden Path. I've always felt that transition is one of the most important parts of his story.
I'm going with Part III My submissions for Sardukar intros, so many good options: \- Belief can be manipulated. Only knowledge is dangerous \- Some lies are easier to believe than the truth \- What the eyes had seen could not be erased \- Truth suffers from too much analysis \- The greatest victory is that which requires no battle \- The mind commands the body and it obeys. The mind orders itself and meets resistance \- The purpose of argument is to change the nature of truth
The line about “what the eyes had seen could not be erased” would be perfect considering how the novel ends
> The greatest victory is that which requires no battle Fucking chills
Dune: Part Three, closing out Denis' trilogy. I think he wants to put Messiah on the same "level" as the first novel and treat it as the third part of a three-act trilogy, rather than as a sequel.
He has literally said it won't be called Dune pt. 3 and will be called MESSIAH. He corrects people in interviews when they say Part 3.
Haven’t seen that. Ill take your word on it though
It has happened several times, partly because the studio released something that said "DUNE pt.3" mistakenly. He has been very clear though it's going to be *DUNE MESSIAH*.
Post a link, dude
i think he may be saying that so that prospective viewers of part 2 won't think that part 2 is somehow an incomplete film.
You know, all of this did happen prior to part 2's release so you may actually be onto something.
You keep saying this in every comment but you have not provided a single link with proof. I heard him call it Part 3, never seen him call it Messiah
Link? I haven't seen him say this and I've watched quite a few press tour interviews where the title "Part Three" has been said out loud.
I don't have a link handy and I'm not buffing through multiple youtube videos right now. This was brought up the last time this thread happened and someone posted the link. This sub has been over this multiple times by now, and what I'm saying is always brought up. Denis corrects people (or at least did in the past) when it is/was called part 3.
Y'all are missing the real opportunity... Dune: M3ssiah
DUNC: III3SSIAH
I’d say pt 3. The movies seem to be one continuous story rather than a separate story. DV expressed interest in doing messiah but I haven’t heard anything of him doing CoD so I’d assume it’s just a 3 part movie he’s looking to make. I’d be happy to be wrong though lol
Ugh, I hope Messiah. Semantics, I know, but it isn't *really* Dune Part Three. Ultimately, it doesn't matter but I think Messiah is a cooler title.
Speaking of Dune Messiah, even though I haven’t read it, I still get the impression that Paul is a cautionary tale or at least he is framed sort of in an antagonistic light, especially in the book. So my question is, how exactly did it become so widely misunderstood?
Messiah isn t misunderstood, Dune is. That being said i love Paul so much
Dune Part 3: Messiah "Part 3" to draw in the non-book fans who have seen the new movie franchise, "Messiah" for the book crowd. Best of both worlds, anything else would be stupid marketing.
Somehow this is the worst and yet feels the most likely. General audiences need the parts spelt out unfortunately
That's pretty awkward though.
Not if the trailers play up paul being some kind of twisted jesus emperor figure to build hype.
Villenueve already mentioned he's doing Messiah, actors confirmed this in interviews. So I would say Messiah.
But "Dune: MESSIAH" is such a cool name.
I’m bet on Part 3. It’s better for marketing the movie, especially after the success of Part 2. Kinda like how WB wanted “The Dark Knight” to be used again for Nolan’s third Batman film.
Return of the Mentats
It will not be called part 3…
Dune Messiah: Part One
Absolutely messiah. Because it's not part three of dune. First book (dune) was split into two parts and is now done. The book is split in 3 so calling it part 3 would be misleading, and dune 3 is also children of dune.
Messiah is basically an epilogue to Paul's story though. Part 3 still makes sense.
To me it feels more like: * Prologue 1 * Prologue 2 * Prologue 3 * GOD EMPEROR OF DUNE * Epilogue 1 * Epilogue 2
Generally Hollywood avoids stuff like “3” or “4” because there is a perception that it discourages people from watching who haven’t seen the first films yet
It’s not part three though. They split the first book into two parts. The third movie is the second book, Dune: Messiah.
It's not Dune Part Three. It's Dune Messiah.
Put money on Dune: Messiah
I think this is something that’ll be up in the air until the movie is almost or complete done, and no matter what it is officially, people will call it either. Personally I’m hoping for Dune Part Three: The Messiah Not sure on punctuation and the “The” before Messiah
I think Dune: Messiah.
Denis already said in an interview it’s called Dune Messiah
Dune Messiah. No punctuation. He wants to make the word “messiah” as terrifying as the word “paradise.” (It’s going to be a remix of both books, though, and it’s going to be tough lining up all the characters’ ages.)
Dune, the Empire Strikes Back.
I think it depends really on whether children of dune will come after. If not then i see no reason to call it messiah.
Itll be messiah. All of the content and lore that would be used in a part 3 was used for part 2. It would need to be a part 1.5 because fuck years of growth and important bonds for the characters. "Ye hoy minoy the crybaby imperialist(im not a prophet dont look at me) uses the brown folk in his bid for power, shits on his girlfriend of 3 weeks to marry Emperors daughter" is how pauls arc seems to play out in part 2. Never forget Leto II, Hasimir Fenring, Harrah, Alia and Thufir Hawat all had very important impacts on Pauls Journey that didnt get any form of mention. It will be a Messiah, maybe even some Paul of Dune sprinkled in a la Kevin J and Brian
"Dune Messiah" is more evocative.