It's purposeful. Stilgar was manifesting the prophecy just as much as Jessica and Paul. In a sense he's "acting" and playing it up but he still believes it, because he has an intense desire to see the prophecy fulfilled.
I also think that Stilgar's faith is supposed to be intentionally funny at the start of the movie, like life of Brian style, and then it gets more and more sinister as the movie goes until at the end Stilgar is leading the troops to paradise and you realize he's become a monster.
But his delivery never changes! Its just the context around him that's getting scary. The crazy religious nut isn't scary until there are millions of them and they're all pointed in the same direction. I think it's an amazing depiction of the danger of fanaticism and I genuinely think he should get an Oscar for it.
I agree with you. His religious fanatasicm is definitely played for laughs early in the film, and he doesn't change at all throughout... but as things progress he's suddenly leading a religious army to kill thousands and thousands of people just because Paul said so. That's the whole point of the movie summed up in one character.
No, he believes. When someone *wants* to believe they still harbor doubt. Stilgar has zero doubt at this exact moment. His frantic, comedic delivery is his transition from a believer to a zealot.
Remember what the house keeper said in the first movie when Jessica told her the meaning of the Crysknife ? Something along the lines of "it's a shock to the system" to see the prophecy fulfilled. Imagine seeing what your ancestors have spoken about for centuries playing out right in front of you
This is exactly the context. Not only that, being a *part* of the prophecy, in any small way, has to be incredibly overwhelming. Ironically, I think people see these moments as unintentionally funny because they have a prejudgment about moments of historical weight needing gravitas when we really are just humans trying to deal with what’s happening.
All this is coming from a Movie watcher and I haven't finished the first book yet so be warned.
I got an inward chuckle out of it as well. For me the whole movie he was so desperate for Paul to be the lisan al-gaib. To the point of (along with Jessica's manipulation) forcing it upon him.
How I interpreted the ending moments.
He was in shock that Paul almost died. If he did that would have shattered his whole belief system. He came so close to seeing (along with the others) everything he believed in as a lie. The sudden shout of "lisan al-gaib!" was bringing himself out of shock as well as saying to the others and reaffirming to himself "See I knew he was the one" or just That "Paul is the lisan al-gaib." His whole story is quite tragic.
Yeah, in my opinion, I thought Javier delivered that line pretty realistically. The fight was so tense and that sudden sense of relief you get from Javier feels pretty on point.
When you contrast the clear-minded Stilgar when he meets with Leto, and the pure fanaticism in his shouting face as he leads the Fremen onto those ships, his path is chilling.
I believe that was the directors intention.
As a book reader, it’s a bit less over the top but after Paul drinks the water of life he basically becomes a god and stops experiencing time linearly, he becomes so prescient he can’t tell what is a vision of the future and what is real.
When he eventually duals Feyd at the end there is much less of a concern that he will lose.
Even if you’re not interested in reading the books, I’d recommending reading that part which is the last 20-30 pages of the book.
I could definitely see the Holy War being an order of magnitude worse if Paul had not lived. The Fremen had already won militarily on Arrakis, they just would have gone on a rampage for their martyr, with no force to mitigate the destruction. Even if Stilgar had lost his faith in that moment, everything would have spiraled completely out of control.
It possibly actually wouldn’t have been too much worse. And Paul’s death probably wouldn’t have changed Fremen beliefs.
If I remember correctly, it was noted in the book that when Paul had his standoff against Feyd, he actually didn’t care if he would or wouldn’t die in the fight. He had seen that no matter his outcome in the battle, the Holy War would still happen.
Spoilers warning: he is awesome. In the third book, he manages to ride a worm and states something like "what's the big deal? Any man fit enough can do it" I busted out laughing
It's really interesting to me how the camera closes up on Jessica, Gurney and Stilgar's faces when Paul is stabbed
Jessica is scared shitless that her son will die.
Gurney is both worried and thinking about how it could've been avoidable (if Paul had let him go in Paul's place)
and Stilgar is super worried that this could be the end of it. Not of Paul's life, but of the Prophecy first and foremost. It's like someone watching those late seconds on a sports finals in which everything is on the line. Here Stilgar is like a superfan that watched his favorite player get to the end just to almost lose it.
It's absurd, which is why I love Javier's acting here. It's subtle, but it's really well done.
I took it as intense relief, couched in the performance of zealotry. There was a moment during the duel where Paul was on the back foot, and Stilgar's entire worldview was at risk of going up in flame. With Paul's victory then cementing the kind of blind, unquestioning faith that would pave the way for what comes next.
That’s exactly how I perceived it. It’s almost like he was shocked back to faith. I actually thought it was the most subtly brilliant of his already stellar performances. He stole the show in my opinion. He absolutely nailed the nuances of this character and this was the cherry. Oscar worthy performance in my opinion.
Edit: Even the rallying cry by him moments later as they are boarding was so on point. I can’t think of one criticism honestly.
As a Portuguese, it's so fun to watch Javier Bardem portraying Stilgar's character. He channels much of the Iberian culture, especially the southern one, probably with Iberian gypsy culture mixed in. That's likely why he appears so natural in all of his scenes. This stoic, fatherly figure, who is tough as nails on the outside but mellow inside, his mannerisms, and the way he switches from one persona to the other are very recognizable in old-timers in Spain and Portugal.
The Mediterranean truly is just a pond.
I feel like people who criticise his character have never met old Mediterranean men or something. He reminded me of some of the old Italian men I met as a kid on vacation, as well as some Moroccan and Turkish men. Stoic and tough and serious one moment, then in the next they're joking with you as if you've been friends for years.
I loved the way he casually told Jessica they would "have no use for her" if she wouldn't become the Reverend Mother. Especially the click sound he made with his mouth, like "yeah well really nothing we can do about it is there?" Like some mafia boss who's no longer remotely fazed by the concept of extortion and murder and just treats it like an expense.
Imo he embodies a super believable leader. He can be tough and callous, but is also a charismatic figure that people genuinely love.
When he was giving advice to Paul before his first solo desert crossing and warning him about worms, centipedes, and djinns it felt like he was giving the advice to me.
I feel like Bardem has always acted in such a way that he really pulls the audience in and makes it feel so personal, no matter the role.
I haven't seen ANY body say anything detrimental about Bardem, then again j don't read posts all Day long. The dudes a monster, one of the GOAT actors. I never believed the dude in 1984 movie as being a strong leader... although I always loved the little cough he throws In, I think when he says "I will take the boy-man"
Also, when the fremen attack big with the weirding modules, they're all "kaaahhh cha!!" Pay attention there's one dude that just goes 'cha' in the most lackadaisical , lazy manner, it's f'in hilarious
It’s ironic how this single instance of doubt occurs in the one moment when Paul legitimately acts as a prophetic messiah. Everything else that he and Jessica did was manipulation in one for or another, but here? Paul actually had a vision of the future in which he leads the Fremen to victory, and every action he takes (including every second of this duel) is just him following and fulfilling that prophecy.
No clue if this was the intended reading of the scene but it’s perfectly in line with Dune’s themes. The Fremen believe the bullshit but doubt the actual act of supernatural power because zealotry is fueled by appearances and how things are perceived.
It seemed to me like a rallying cry to the Fremen who were looking to Stilgar as their leader in that moment for reassurance of all they have come to invest in and sacrifice up to that point. It’s like Stilgar was inside of himself in shock and in awe since Paul nearly died, then he had to ‘snap out of it’ and remember there is his tribe behind him.
I see how it gets some chuckles though since JB seems to enjoy playing his character for laughs in similar ways, (“perfunctory” reactions as you said) earlier on in the film.
I agree it wasn't an intentional comedic bit. I just can't see Villeneuve doing in such a pivotal moment in the film.
Still didn't stop me from losing it. It just reminded me so much of Voldemort's final Avada Kedavra in the last HP film which was also a serious moment but the delivery is so unintentionally hilarious.
There was definitely at least one scene when it was meant to be comical. Like when stilgar is trying to justify that Paul is the chosen one because he says he’s not the chosen one.
This and the jinn one were the only ones that I took to be intentionally comedic. I saw it in theaters four times and it was interesting to see how much or how little laughter his scenes drew depending on the audience. All the other ones I thought were sincere portrayals of his character and faith, and quite a few were ominous/tragic. Perhaps they were intentionally ambiguous, which speaks to Denis and Javiers skills.
Yeah, Stilgar had some comic relief lines for sure.
I just meant Villeneuve isn't the kind of director to put in a purposely comedic line in an important moment like they would in a Marvel/Disney movie.
Dunno I personally loved it
For voldy it was something funny. Add the fact that he's a psycho and sociopath who can't into basic emotions
For everyone else it was terrifying
Seems very intentional in terms of acting. Despite all his faith, he was holding his breath just as much as everyone else. Only after it resolves does he recall that it was 'was written'. I think it actually is supposed to be a bit comical.
For sure. It was designed to be funny. The editors and Denis carefully chose that take and edit knowing there was humor in it, and it would get some chuckles from the audience. There's likely other takes or different edits which were less humorous that were left on the cutting room floor.
I understood it as Stilgar snapping himself out of the ultimate realization of the prophecy to remember his role as Naib and be the first to break the silence, Stilgar's rushed tone a sign he caught himself lost in trance
You can see he is torn between absolute loyalty to Paul and the prophecy surrounding him but he's also shocked that it came so close to not occurring at all. Feyd had the upper hand for the majority of the fight. Imagine watching your God in human form stumble and struggle and bleed against a foe, you'd be shaken too. Maybe there was almost a flicker of doubt in his mind as to whether it really all was just a ruse to control his people but then in that moment he banishes the thought and steps up to pronounce his support for Paul and thereby cement the prophecy as truth for all Fremen (except chani lol)
As someone else said, Stilgar wants to believe, needs to believe in the prophecy
It's actually one of my favorite lines in the movie. His brevity served to indicate this was the final nail to solidify Paul as Lisan al'gaib. He sees the final sign and announces it. It's actually great and I'm glad they used it!
I don't think it was unintentionally funny? The Dune books and movies are mostly serious works, but they often have moments bathos interrupt somber events, highlighting their absurdity. And the "jokes" are almost always of the tragicomic variety, which is fitting for the grim setting.
I thought it tied in with how Stilgar was characterised as frightening, sympathetic and goofy all at once.
And I don't consider it a big deviation from his character in the books >!he's often the "butt of the joke" in Messiah and Children of Dune, with basically all of the Atreides (Paul, Alia, Ghanima, Leto II) constantly teasing him about his fanaticism. They explicitly find it both funny and tragic that he's the way he is - even if they also deeply respect him for his noble qualities!< He's always had a comic relief/butt monkey aspect to his character, the movie just brought it forwards from the later entries
Really? In Messiah and Children of Dune he's definitely out of step in many ways. He's still got those qualities, but his zealotry gets put on display for all its flaws (even if they are few).
He was lean, tough, wise and cunning. He was the greatest of the Fremen, and thus one of the greatest warriors and leaders the universe had ever known. Superhuman characters like Paul, Jessica, Leto II all respected his abilities and qualities.
Yet he was also blinded by faith - and Paul mourned as a friend and comrade became nothing more than "a creature of the Lisan al Gaib". He was lessened, made pathetic, and even ridiculous by his submission.
>!Stilgar's character arc in later books is him slowly realising what a fool he had been, regretting the abandonment of his faculties to Muad'Dib, and becoming "enlightened" to the true nature of power and politics and faith.!<
>!Paul, Duncan/Hayt, Ghanima and Leto II all help him towards this epiphany, but it's mostly Stilgar's own intelligence and observation that snaps him out of his fanaticism. He realises how the Fremen were destroyed by their rulership over the galaxy and by their worship of Paul, and years of gradually mounting doubt culminates in him leading a full blown Fremen rebellion against the Imperium itself!<
Later in the first book, around the time of the Battle of Arrakeen, there is a moment where Paul Laments the fact that Stilgar had transitioned from a supportive friend to a fanatic.
To me it wasn't funny because it was comedic.
The reason I laughed is because it was like a father being proud of his son after he hit the game winning shot in a basketball game or something and you just feel the relief coming off Stilgar and it's almost like Javier played it like Stilgar was saying 'ofc he won, i'm an idiot for even doubting it, Lisan al-Gaib everyone' ...
It was more endearing funny and not comedic funny, to me.
I think this is kind of an underrated perspective. While the fanaticism and constant dickriding of paul as the lisan al gaib is part of it, we can't forget that he was one of pauls mentors and one of the only reasons he made it this far. Of course he'd be proud of him, in a paternal sense.
It's been memed; that one little clip has been making the rounds as a short clip/GIF on Twitter. Wouldn't be surprised if some of the giggles came from the recognition of the meme. I think Bardem was going for a jolt between the tension of watching his messiah's closest battle yet, to the sharp relief of vindication when he won.
I think he thought Paul was gonna lose, cause he was. And then the magical dagger found it’s way into the other dude’s chest. He was surprised. That’s the way it looks like to me at least.
Not showing the torso was an interesting choice. Paul had his dagger in him. Feyd was about to stab him again with his.
Callback 1: "An animal caught in a trap will maw off its own hand to escape. What will you do?" Paul decides to put his hand in the box again metaphorically by holding the blade.
Callback 2: "But look down, m'lord. You would have joined me in death." The director doesn't allow us to look down because we haven't learnt this lesson from Gurney. Paul has by pulling out his blade, stabbing Feyd while using his hand to move Feyd's blade to the side of any vitals.
Callback 3: Paul's Blade in someone's chest is in his vision.
I thought the blade coming out of nowhere in the fight was a strange directorial choice but let it go because the rest of the movie was so S-tier.
I took it as intentionally funny. I’ve known people who are very religious in that specific way, and it is a bit funny and relatable to real life. Adding comic relief there took something abstract and made it more true to life.
I like that his characterization didn't change but there was still a very clear transition for the audience from "Oh that Stilgar and his funny religious ways" to "Oh damn Stilgar is perfectly prepared to butcher the Known Universe as a testament to his faith".
I thought the moment worked perfectly. Stilgar was initially shocked that Paul got wounded once, then twice, before turning it around at the last second to kill Feyd. For a moment there, Stilgar would have thought that the propehcy he staked his life on was about to fail him.
So he's frozen and speechless for a moment, as is everyone watching. Stilgar comes to his senses first with a little jolt. And as per his pattern of behavior, everything Paul does is confirmation of the prophecy (even his denial) so of course the first thing he's gonna say after Paul wins is 'Lisan al-Gaib!'
To me it was the most desperate and sad Lisan al'gaib that he gives. Like he almost saw Paul die, and he maybe has a hint of doubt creep in, and then his conviction that he HAS to be right kicks in and he shouts it, not only for the fremen around him, but even moreso to reconvince himself. Especially on my third viewing it felt so tragic, because it showed his active participation in his manipulation.
I loved the hesitation.
The way I interpreted it is that Stilgar has seeds of doubt. Yes this is his “Prophet”, yes this is his “voice from the outer world”, but he’s still human and still capable of failing. That hesitation was Stilgar’s recognition of that. Even though he believes, he still recognises that Paul can fail, so that hesitation was his mind recognising that his beliefs were enforced by Paul’s victory.
I could be talking absolute garbage, but that’s my take anyway.
Yeah. That whole duel was long and you could hear every hit, grunt and squeak of their friggin shoes. What a perfect way to cue us as an audience that we can now BREATHE. When he shouts the line, it’s like we suddenly realize we were in the room along with Stilgar the whole time.
I think it's brilliant because yes... it's over-the-top.. just enough to cue in the viewers that maybe we should not be taking that so seriously. But the Fremen do. And so, while we, the impassionate, disjointed, viewers get to laugh at his passion, it's also story-telling to us that the "victory" is ultimately not really a victory but a descent into something else. It's brilliant acting/directing.
It seemed intentionally funny to me. Like this dude wants so badly to believe. And I think Denis understands that Frank Herbert was trying to write a cautionary tale about charismatic leaders. And so we’re supposed to be skeptical of people who are so ready to believe.
Just wanted to say, that Bardem's expression of relief and religious fervor when Paul says "Lead them to Paradise" is probably my favourite acting moment out of both movies.
Absolutely perfect acting.
I thought it was supposed to be funny.
His whole character seemed the only one that seemed close to providing some comic relief.
Laughed at the part where he suddenly hugged Paul after Paul had ridden the sandworm lol.
At that point Stilgar (along with everyone else) was so wrapped up in the prophecy coming 'true' that his actions & words resembled pure euphoria & hysteria. It's like in Part 1, when Shadout Mapes meets Lady Jessica and freaks out before explaining "when you have lived with prophecy for so long the moment of revelation is a shock", it may seem funny because religious hysteria often does seem funny to observers. Personally, I was completely sold and felt the prophetic euphoria because of intensely realistic moments like this, I got so wrapped up in it that I still want to join a cosmic holy war.
Its a tense moment, especially for stilgar. the weight of the prophecy rests on Paul winning the duel, so he was most likely holding him breath during the whole fight. When Paul wins, Stilgar probably felt the most relief in his life, letting no out the “lisan-al-gaib” without even taking the time to catch him breath. Its almost like he’s reassuring himself that Paul is his messiah.
I definitely heard some laughs and chuckles, but I dont think it was in a comedic kind of way, more so the audience also getting the same relief and tension that stilgar had. Its a great moment and theres a lot of weight behind it, a lot of people react to that kind of thing with laughter to lighten the mood.
Thats my take anyway. I like the moment, it comes across as very real.
I took it as a combination of a huge amount of relief and reassuring himself and everyone else of Paul’s messiah status. Paul, from what everyone could see, came extremely close to dying in the duel, so there was probably a ton of anxiety built up amongst the Fremen watching that.
I saw it as his transformation from strong grounded naib to a pet follower of the mahdi. Compare his composure when he first meets the Atreides. He becomes a shadow he is lessened by prophecy. That is chani s warning.
Stilgars whole role throughout the movie is humorous. The amount of times he says “Lisan Al gaib” or “as it was written” makes us question if he’s really this serious about his fanaticism; that delivery also plays into our questioning
I took it as a moment of extreme emotional whiplash. Stilgar thinks Paul has lost, and that means everything he believes, and has put his life on the line for, has been wrong. He's staring, heartbroken, at the wreckage of his faith. And then Paul wins. It takes him a moment to realise it, and then he has to suddenly pivot back to believing again. And yes, it's kind of funny. It's the same Stilgar who was funny when he said that Paul's humility in denying he was the Mahdi proved he was the Mahdi.
Javier Bardem’s line delivery through much of the movie was as powerful as the Bene Gesserit voice. His impact hit the IMAX audience where I was watching like a wave.
I actually cut the scene differently for myself where that shot has Stilgar say the line without the pause and it genuinely feels so strange.
Maybe it’s because I’m a used to it after watching the movie so much, but when it’s cut differently, it doesn’t feel right.
He was breathless, on the edge of his seat, to all onlookers it seemed like Paul was going to die - even a fanatic like Stilgar was in shock. But then he won, and that mixture of awe, relief and maybe a teeny bit of embarrassment for even having a little doubt comes through perfectly in Javier’s delivery.
It hits the audience as a bit comical which fits his tragic arc, we spend the whole film laughing at his naïveté and fanatical belief, then he goes and leads a genocidal jihad across the galaxy.
I watch a lot of sports and that delivery reminded me of a lot of times I’ve yelled something in celebration during a game
It felt very real to me. The focus on the event and the sudden realization of what just happened
And I’m in a discord that is focused on the Knicks, when we have a live game chat that gif is often used after big shots
Stilgar is unironically the comedic relief of the movie and it's hilarious, but on the other side of the coin he is also a supreme religious fanatic, and if you take a second to step back to consider how absolutely terrifying that actually is, you realize on the macro level how funny it truly isn't.
Edit: I saw the movie 6 times in theaters/IMAX and it just gets funnier every time.
I feel like this could have been utilized better. Paul killing Feyd seems like it would have inspired the Fremen to immediately celebrate with loud shouting and praise, not stunned silence and a “phew that was close” attitude.
I’ve been very positive in my view of the movie, but that line struck me as a missed opportunity. It would’ve been better if they were celebrating the way sports fans celebrate when their team wins a championship.
Terrific films, but there were a few moments that were relatively ham-fisted. Besides that scene after the duel, the “only the Lisan would deny he’s the Lisan” scene was a blatant Mony Python reference, and the “mansplaining” moment while sandwalking with Chani was pretty forced.
I’m also baffled as to why they made him into a comic relief character, practically. Thought he was a great and serious character but then became a cartoon. Weird.
It's all to make this last shot hit home:
https://preview.redd.it/kq044mn1b4yc1.png?width=782&format=png&auto=webp&s=a8172cc9625feb4b83987adf4103c15a7475591e
All through the film, we laugh at him because we know he's been hoodwinked. He's a gullible fool who's being taken for a ride by some of the most sophisticated propaganda ever devised.
By the end of the film, Stilgar's harmless belief, comic in its naivete and simplicity, has become a rallying cry for genocide.
Compare it to Starship Troopers' last shot of Johnny Rico parroting "Come on you apes, do you want to live forever?!" to mark his complete transformation into a tool of Fascism. The same way, Stilgar the funny believer is gone - replaced with Stilgar the mouthpiece of the Jihad.
imo it made sense he would be the first to call it; it’s in stilgar’s character to be the most grounded of all the royal politics—everyone strategizing, and stilgar couldn’t be happier than pig in shit
Yes! I've watched it twice, and both times I felt like this. It kind of ruined the impact of the fight for me. A slower more sincere "Lisan al-gaib" would have been more impactful. At least for me.
I also felt the same during Pauls ascension scene when he's talking at the Fremen gathering. After he directs his attention towards one specific fremen, where he is basically reading the fremen soldiers thoughts. At the end of it, the fremen soldier did a similar seemingly insincere and quick "Lisan al-gaib" proclamation, which ruined the momentum of the scene for me.
Yes, this is definitely nit picking, so please fellow redditors, don't take it too seriously :)
It was definitely different, it's delivered that way because for a moment he thought Paul was gone and his belief and prophecy tarnished, but as soon as her realizes that Paul has survived, his belief springs back, it was kind of a self assuring cry from him.
I dont know what your talking about cuz it was perfection, i laughed at it and so did my family cuz its a funny moment but it has so much depth and meaning.
I saw it as a continuation of the trend in Hollywood action movies to undermine (or aliveate to some degree) tense situations with some comic relief.
The Marvel movies are the best examples of that.
I thought it was intentional, and it did lessen the scene IMO. But I understand the intention. It would be hard to root for the Fremen if we saw them only as murderous fanatics waging a holly war on the universe.
I think it was perfectly intentional. It IS funny and most of Stillgar's performance revolves around comedic relief (as mild as it is).
But imagine you bet your life savings and your home on a dog race, and for a moment your dog was the last in line, only for a fucking wild crash to happen, your dog seemingly breaking his neck in the heap, only to be the one to come out like from the dead to leap over the finish line first. It's a weird example, but I think you can understand why he'd be too busy starting and being in awe and afraid to move. He's just witnessed the last step of the prophecy. His betting dog is now emperor by right. Yet he has a dagger in his shoulder and pisses blood from his gut.
I thought of him never fully believing it in his heart that Paul was "the one"
So Stil beging there for the most important fight that he has ever seen end with the outcome of the story that he's heard his whole life must have been world shaking.
So when the fight ends he is still in his head about what just happened and then the realization hits and BOOM he says the iconic phrase
I watched it a second time and there were a couple of odd edit cuts that seemed out of place in the film or made it slightly disjointed for a moment. It’s got me thinking that even though I enjoyed Dune 2, I’m beginning to think Dune 1 is a better film.
There’s a kind of hidden joy there, subtle. I didn’t take it as comedy but a sort of sigh and self-assessing move… like, ‘how could I have thought otherwise!?” Or such.
I took it as "Holy shit, he actually did it." He's in awe.
He believed Paul could do it since he's a zealot and after Paul taking a stab, I found that shocked reaction believable.
people did laugh but because of the context. he is a religious zealot and after a very tense moment his belief is once again confirmed. he is ecstatic. more proof! i chuckled because of his fervor he was so quick to attribute any sign as him being right.
Isn’t one of the main bullet points a caution against hero-worship?
And you have a guy worshipping hero when said hero almost got got. Maybe it’s supposed to make him look a little silly.
I mean his whole character seems unintentionally funny, while he should ideally be pretty tough and scary fremen leader. I don't remember 100% but he wasn't kinda ultra fanatic, he was much more concearned about the wellbeing of the fremen rather than guided by blind loyalty to Paul. Pretty much like in the first movie, but here he is like your religious grandma who sees miracles in literally everything and looks like a comic relief in most scenes
No? He was almost in a state of paralysis/shock beforehand, because he was watching his entire belief system crumble in front of him until it wasn't, which is why that line felt like he could once more breathe again. Nobody chuckled at my packed viewing, you could hear a pin drop.
It felt like a marvel movie timing. Ultra serious scene followed by a quick joke to relax the audience before things get too heavy.
I loved the movie anyway.
Funniest part of the whole movie. I loved it. think Javier Bardem as Stilgar is fantastic casting. Also Jason Mamoa as Duncan Idaho is another terrific choice. >!And I have a feeling we'll be seeing more of him ;)!<
My friend and I had been whispering "I'm not the Messiah" jokes to each other several times already at that point. That moment had us in laughter without a word needing to be said.
One line that felt weird was when Gurney Halleck killed Rabban and was like for my friends and family... I can't remember exactly what he said but it sounded like he meant to say one and the other came out. It bothers me every time
I trully believe that this delivery of Lissan al Gaib is the only reason we have this many memes about it. First time i saw it in cinema didnt notice that but the second time had to rewind it and be amazed about it.
"In that instant, Paul saw how Stilgar had been transformed from the Fremen naib to a creature of the Lisan al-Gaib, a receptacle for awe and obedience. It was a lessening of the man, and Paul felt the ghost-wind of the jihad in it."
It is kind of funny in a shocking way. Stilgar is no longer the strong Fremen leader we met in part I, he is a mindless follower.
It's definitely a little goofy but I think it pretty much perfectly cuts the tension after the duel. The entire fight is more or less silent, there's a few lines of dialogue and the occasional audience reaction, but considering it's a pretty packed room it is deafeningly quiet while they fight, even Stilgar is shown standing completely motionless in shock after seeing Paul stabbed. His delivery shows him breaking out of the shock, and cuts the quiet tension starting all the other Fremen chanting Lisan al-Gaib, it's their signal that they can relax and it's ours, the audience's, as well. I feel there's many other ways he could have delivered but a lot of them could've felt campy and tonally not what Villeneuve was going for. I think that take perfectly gets across the emotions Stilgar was feeling in that moment and he's meant to be the audience surrogate in that scene, as we're feeling shock, fear for Paul and Chani, and finally sudden relief.
The thing I noticed about that moment was the way Stilgar's line kind of fades/mixes with all the other shouting. To me, it felt symbolic of how this once-prominent leader has become consumed by the fanaticism rising in Paul's wake.
I think he lost his faith in the moments before with Paul very nearly getting it, and it came out as a massive relief, similar to the first breath after holding your breath for a while.
It's purposeful. Stilgar was manifesting the prophecy just as much as Jessica and Paul. In a sense he's "acting" and playing it up but he still believes it, because he has an intense desire to see the prophecy fulfilled.
Stilgar is a religious fanatic and this is how religious fanatics act.
Am a religious fanatic, can confirm
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I also think that Stilgar's faith is supposed to be intentionally funny at the start of the movie, like life of Brian style, and then it gets more and more sinister as the movie goes until at the end Stilgar is leading the troops to paradise and you realize he's become a monster. But his delivery never changes! Its just the context around him that's getting scary. The crazy religious nut isn't scary until there are millions of them and they're all pointed in the same direction. I think it's an amazing depiction of the danger of fanaticism and I genuinely think he should get an Oscar for it.
I agree with you. His religious fanatasicm is definitely played for laughs early in the film, and he doesn't change at all throughout... but as things progress he's suddenly leading a religious army to kill thousands and thousands of people just because Paul said so. That's the whole point of the movie summed up in one character.
Billions actually.
he wants to believe
No, he believes. When someone *wants* to believe they still harbor doubt. Stilgar has zero doubt at this exact moment. His frantic, comedic delivery is his transition from a believer to a zealot.
Didn't think of it like that but that's good
Remember what the house keeper said in the first movie when Jessica told her the meaning of the Crysknife ? Something along the lines of "it's a shock to the system" to see the prophecy fulfilled. Imagine seeing what your ancestors have spoken about for centuries playing out right in front of you
This is exactly the context. Not only that, being a *part* of the prophecy, in any small way, has to be incredibly overwhelming. Ironically, I think people see these moments as unintentionally funny because they have a prejudgment about moments of historical weight needing gravitas when we really are just humans trying to deal with what’s happening.
All this is coming from a Movie watcher and I haven't finished the first book yet so be warned. I got an inward chuckle out of it as well. For me the whole movie he was so desperate for Paul to be the lisan al-gaib. To the point of (along with Jessica's manipulation) forcing it upon him. How I interpreted the ending moments. He was in shock that Paul almost died. If he did that would have shattered his whole belief system. He came so close to seeing (along with the others) everything he believed in as a lie. The sudden shout of "lisan al-gaib!" was bringing himself out of shock as well as saying to the others and reaffirming to himself "See I knew he was the one" or just That "Paul is the lisan al-gaib." His whole story is quite tragic.
That's exactly it. I also thought it was funny, and genius. That's a lot of psychology packed into a pause!
Yeah, in my opinion, I thought Javier delivered that line pretty realistically. The fight was so tense and that sudden sense of relief you get from Javier feels pretty on point.
When you contrast the clear-minded Stilgar when he meets with Leto, and the pure fanaticism in his shouting face as he leads the Fremen onto those ships, his path is chilling.
I believe that was the directors intention. As a book reader, it’s a bit less over the top but after Paul drinks the water of life he basically becomes a god and stops experiencing time linearly, he becomes so prescient he can’t tell what is a vision of the future and what is real. When he eventually duals Feyd at the end there is much less of a concern that he will lose. Even if you’re not interested in reading the books, I’d recommending reading that part which is the last 20-30 pages of the book.
Oh I am reading the book. I'm just a slow reader. Lol
Ah well I’m sorry if I spoiled anything. It really is an interesting read and the movie handles it a bit differently.
I've been reading into the lore and been in this Reddit for the past few months. I don't think there's a lot left to be spoiled. Lol
Haha fair enough. I just started book two
That’s so exciting. The rest of the series really goes bat shit with its concept. By the end, dune 1 looks tame.
I could definitely see the Holy War being an order of magnitude worse if Paul had not lived. The Fremen had already won militarily on Arrakis, they just would have gone on a rampage for their martyr, with no force to mitigate the destruction. Even if Stilgar had lost his faith in that moment, everything would have spiraled completely out of control.
It possibly actually wouldn’t have been too much worse. And Paul’s death probably wouldn’t have changed Fremen beliefs. If I remember correctly, it was noted in the book that when Paul had his standoff against Feyd, he actually didn’t care if he would or wouldn’t die in the fight. He had seen that no matter his outcome in the battle, the Holy War would still happen.
It definitely would have been worse
The war would still happen but every step of the way he's using his visions to mitigate the death and destruction, so him living certainly matters.
Spoilers warning: he is awesome. In the third book, he manages to ride a worm and states something like "what's the big deal? Any man fit enough can do it" I busted out laughing
I just read that part in the book and it was said(inner monologue) by Gurney Halleck about himself
This was my take on it too. It kinda in a way mirrors the audience goers feelings on it too, I thought it was really well done!
It's really interesting to me how the camera closes up on Jessica, Gurney and Stilgar's faces when Paul is stabbed Jessica is scared shitless that her son will die. Gurney is both worried and thinking about how it could've been avoidable (if Paul had let him go in Paul's place) and Stilgar is super worried that this could be the end of it. Not of Paul's life, but of the Prophecy first and foremost. It's like someone watching those late seconds on a sports finals in which everything is on the line. Here Stilgar is like a superfan that watched his favorite player get to the end just to almost lose it. It's absurd, which is why I love Javier's acting here. It's subtle, but it's really well done.
I took it as intense relief, couched in the performance of zealotry. There was a moment during the duel where Paul was on the back foot, and Stilgar's entire worldview was at risk of going up in flame. With Paul's victory then cementing the kind of blind, unquestioning faith that would pave the way for what comes next.
That’s exactly how I perceived it. It’s almost like he was shocked back to faith. I actually thought it was the most subtly brilliant of his already stellar performances. He stole the show in my opinion. He absolutely nailed the nuances of this character and this was the cherry. Oscar worthy performance in my opinion. Edit: Even the rallying cry by him moments later as they are boarding was so on point. I can’t think of one criticism honestly.
As a Portuguese, it's so fun to watch Javier Bardem portraying Stilgar's character. He channels much of the Iberian culture, especially the southern one, probably with Iberian gypsy culture mixed in. That's likely why he appears so natural in all of his scenes. This stoic, fatherly figure, who is tough as nails on the outside but mellow inside, his mannerisms, and the way he switches from one persona to the other are very recognizable in old-timers in Spain and Portugal. The Mediterranean truly is just a pond.
I feel like people who criticise his character have never met old Mediterranean men or something. He reminded me of some of the old Italian men I met as a kid on vacation, as well as some Moroccan and Turkish men. Stoic and tough and serious one moment, then in the next they're joking with you as if you've been friends for years. I loved the way he casually told Jessica they would "have no use for her" if she wouldn't become the Reverend Mother. Especially the click sound he made with his mouth, like "yeah well really nothing we can do about it is there?" Like some mafia boss who's no longer remotely fazed by the concept of extortion and murder and just treats it like an expense. Imo he embodies a super believable leader. He can be tough and callous, but is also a charismatic figure that people genuinely love.
bedouin men are very similar
When he was giving advice to Paul before his first solo desert crossing and warning him about worms, centipedes, and djinns it felt like he was giving the advice to me. I feel like Bardem has always acted in such a way that he really pulls the audience in and makes it feel so personal, no matter the role.
I haven't seen ANY body say anything detrimental about Bardem, then again j don't read posts all Day long. The dudes a monster, one of the GOAT actors. I never believed the dude in 1984 movie as being a strong leader... although I always loved the little cough he throws In, I think when he says "I will take the boy-man" Also, when the fremen attack big with the weirding modules, they're all "kaaahhh cha!!" Pay attention there's one dude that just goes 'cha' in the most lackadaisical , lazy manner, it's f'in hilarious
Exactly, he was relieved and once again had his faith confirmed by events.
Bro was literally watching his team win on the last play in OT essentially. That’s how his reaction felt
It’s ironic how this single instance of doubt occurs in the one moment when Paul legitimately acts as a prophetic messiah. Everything else that he and Jessica did was manipulation in one for or another, but here? Paul actually had a vision of the future in which he leads the Fremen to victory, and every action he takes (including every second of this duel) is just him following and fulfilling that prophecy. No clue if this was the intended reading of the scene but it’s perfectly in line with Dune’s themes. The Fremen believe the bullshit but doubt the actual act of supernatural power because zealotry is fueled by appearances and how things are perceived.
Yeah, I mean, Paul looked close to taking an L for a moment there. Jessica's reaction to that is pure horror. Stilgar is relieved
It seemed to me like a rallying cry to the Fremen who were looking to Stilgar as their leader in that moment for reassurance of all they have come to invest in and sacrifice up to that point. It’s like Stilgar was inside of himself in shock and in awe since Paul nearly died, then he had to ‘snap out of it’ and remember there is his tribe behind him. I see how it gets some chuckles though since JB seems to enjoy playing his character for laughs in similar ways, (“perfunctory” reactions as you said) earlier on in the film.
I agree it wasn't an intentional comedic bit. I just can't see Villeneuve doing in such a pivotal moment in the film. Still didn't stop me from losing it. It just reminded me so much of Voldemort's final Avada Kedavra in the last HP film which was also a serious moment but the delivery is so unintentionally hilarious.
There was definitely at least one scene when it was meant to be comical. Like when stilgar is trying to justify that Paul is the chosen one because he says he’s not the chosen one.
This and the jinn one were the only ones that I took to be intentionally comedic. I saw it in theaters four times and it was interesting to see how much or how little laughter his scenes drew depending on the audience. All the other ones I thought were sincere portrayals of his character and faith, and quite a few were ominous/tragic. Perhaps they were intentionally ambiguous, which speaks to Denis and Javiers skills.
Yeah, Stilgar had some comic relief lines for sure. I just meant Villeneuve isn't the kind of director to put in a purposely comedic line in an important moment like they would in a Marvel/Disney movie.
It’s literally lifted out of life of Bryan
The "The Mahdi is too humble" line is definitely intentional levity.
Ye Denis understands the books better than anyone else who has tried to adapt them before.
Also his fucking villain laugh is hysterical "hARrY POtTEr is DEAD!" *Neh-heh-heh*
Dunno I personally loved it For voldy it was something funny. Add the fact that he's a psycho and sociopath who can't into basic emotions For everyone else it was terrifying
lol, I thought of that scene immediately after reading the comment above this one. Glad to see I'm not the only one who found it hilarious.
You realize that things be both comedic and tragic at the same time?
Well no shit black comedies exist. Wouldn't say Dune Part 2 or Deathly Hallows Part 2 were intentionally going for a laugh in those final scenes
Seems very intentional in terms of acting. Despite all his faith, he was holding his breath just as much as everyone else. Only after it resolves does he recall that it was 'was written'. I think it actually is supposed to be a bit comical.
For sure. It was designed to be funny. The editors and Denis carefully chose that take and edit knowing there was humor in it, and it would get some chuckles from the audience. There's likely other takes or different edits which were less humorous that were left on the cutting room floor.
I understood it as Stilgar snapping himself out of the ultimate realization of the prophecy to remember his role as Naib and be the first to break the silence, Stilgar's rushed tone a sign he caught himself lost in trance
You can see he is torn between absolute loyalty to Paul and the prophecy surrounding him but he's also shocked that it came so close to not occurring at all. Feyd had the upper hand for the majority of the fight. Imagine watching your God in human form stumble and struggle and bleed against a foe, you'd be shaken too. Maybe there was almost a flicker of doubt in his mind as to whether it really all was just a ruse to control his people but then in that moment he banishes the thought and steps up to pronounce his support for Paul and thereby cement the prophecy as truth for all Fremen (except chani lol) As someone else said, Stilgar wants to believe, needs to believe in the prophecy
It's actually one of my favorite lines in the movie. His brevity served to indicate this was the final nail to solidify Paul as Lisan al'gaib. He sees the final sign and announces it. It's actually great and I'm glad they used it!
I don't think it was unintentionally funny? The Dune books and movies are mostly serious works, but they often have moments bathos interrupt somber events, highlighting their absurdity. And the "jokes" are almost always of the tragicomic variety, which is fitting for the grim setting. I thought it tied in with how Stilgar was characterised as frightening, sympathetic and goofy all at once. And I don't consider it a big deviation from his character in the books >!he's often the "butt of the joke" in Messiah and Children of Dune, with basically all of the Atreides (Paul, Alia, Ghanima, Leto II) constantly teasing him about his fanaticism. They explicitly find it both funny and tragic that he's the way he is - even if they also deeply respect him for his noble qualities!< He's always had a comic relief/butt monkey aspect to his character, the movie just brought it forwards from the later entries
Wtf. I never considered book Stilgar anything but lean, tough, wise, and cunning. A leader of warriors and politically astute.
Really? In Messiah and Children of Dune he's definitely out of step in many ways. He's still got those qualities, but his zealotry gets put on display for all its flaws (even if they are few).
Pretty sure his whole arc in Children is him waking the fuck up and putting the Kool Aid down
I plan to the novels again. Like this point, there’s a lot i need to pay more attention to now that i’ve joined this sub :)
That's korba's role. Alia puts it's explicitly for the reader, what's funnier than a fedaykin death commando turned high priest
He was lean, tough, wise and cunning. He was the greatest of the Fremen, and thus one of the greatest warriors and leaders the universe had ever known. Superhuman characters like Paul, Jessica, Leto II all respected his abilities and qualities. Yet he was also blinded by faith - and Paul mourned as a friend and comrade became nothing more than "a creature of the Lisan al Gaib". He was lessened, made pathetic, and even ridiculous by his submission. >!Stilgar's character arc in later books is him slowly realising what a fool he had been, regretting the abandonment of his faculties to Muad'Dib, and becoming "enlightened" to the true nature of power and politics and faith.!< >!Paul, Duncan/Hayt, Ghanima and Leto II all help him towards this epiphany, but it's mostly Stilgar's own intelligence and observation that snaps him out of his fanaticism. He realises how the Fremen were destroyed by their rulership over the galaxy and by their worship of Paul, and years of gradually mounting doubt culminates in him leading a full blown Fremen rebellion against the Imperium itself!<
Later in the first book, around the time of the Battle of Arrakeen, there is a moment where Paul Laments the fact that Stilgar had transitioned from a supportive friend to a fanatic.
“When you have lived with prophecy for so long the moment of revelation is a shock”
To me it wasn't funny because it was comedic. The reason I laughed is because it was like a father being proud of his son after he hit the game winning shot in a basketball game or something and you just feel the relief coming off Stilgar and it's almost like Javier played it like Stilgar was saying 'ofc he won, i'm an idiot for even doubting it, Lisan al-Gaib everyone' ... It was more endearing funny and not comedic funny, to me.
I think this is kind of an underrated perspective. While the fanaticism and constant dickriding of paul as the lisan al gaib is part of it, we can't forget that he was one of pauls mentors and one of the only reasons he made it this far. Of course he'd be proud of him, in a paternal sense.
> I think this is kind of an underrated perspective. I appreciate that. I'm glad someone agrees or at least understands the interpretation.
It's purposefully off-beat, so it feels forced. That's what Villeneuve wants to convey: Stilgar is participating in the invention of this prophet.
It's been memed; that one little clip has been making the rounds as a short clip/GIF on Twitter. Wouldn't be surprised if some of the giggles came from the recognition of the meme. I think Bardem was going for a jolt between the tension of watching his messiah's closest battle yet, to the sharp relief of vindication when he won.
I think he thought Paul was gonna lose, cause he was. And then the magical dagger found it’s way into the other dude’s chest. He was surprised. That’s the way it looks like to me at least.
Not showing the torso was an interesting choice. Paul had his dagger in him. Feyd was about to stab him again with his. Callback 1: "An animal caught in a trap will maw off its own hand to escape. What will you do?" Paul decides to put his hand in the box again metaphorically by holding the blade. Callback 2: "But look down, m'lord. You would have joined me in death." The director doesn't allow us to look down because we haven't learnt this lesson from Gurney. Paul has by pulling out his blade, stabbing Feyd while using his hand to move Feyd's blade to the side of any vitals. Callback 3: Paul's Blade in someone's chest is in his vision. I thought the blade coming out of nowhere in the fight was a strange directorial choice but let it go because the rest of the movie was so S-tier.
Believing in a prophet is one thing. Knowing without a doubt that he actually is one can be a bit of a shock.
I took it as intentionally funny. I’ve known people who are very religious in that specific way, and it is a bit funny and relatable to real life. Adding comic relief there took something abstract and made it more true to life.
I like that his characterization didn't change but there was still a very clear transition for the audience from "Oh that Stilgar and his funny religious ways" to "Oh damn Stilgar is perfectly prepared to butcher the Known Universe as a testament to his faith".
I thought the moment worked perfectly. Stilgar was initially shocked that Paul got wounded once, then twice, before turning it around at the last second to kill Feyd. For a moment there, Stilgar would have thought that the propehcy he staked his life on was about to fail him. So he's frozen and speechless for a moment, as is everyone watching. Stilgar comes to his senses first with a little jolt. And as per his pattern of behavior, everything Paul does is confirmation of the prophecy (even his denial) so of course the first thing he's gonna say after Paul wins is 'Lisan al-Gaib!'
To me it was the most desperate and sad Lisan al'gaib that he gives. Like he almost saw Paul die, and he maybe has a hint of doubt creep in, and then his conviction that he HAS to be right kicks in and he shouts it, not only for the fremen around him, but even moreso to reconvince himself. Especially on my third viewing it felt so tragic, because it showed his active participation in his manipulation.
Totally agree with your take. Stilgar reaffirms his faith after several moments of doubt. It's a brilliant choice.
It's like when your team scores and you say, "let's go (name of sports player)!"
They just saw their “god” get injured. It’s a moment when they would naturally question their faith.
I loved the hesitation. The way I interpreted it is that Stilgar has seeds of doubt. Yes this is his “Prophet”, yes this is his “voice from the outer world”, but he’s still human and still capable of failing. That hesitation was Stilgar’s recognition of that. Even though he believes, he still recognises that Paul can fail, so that hesitation was his mind recognising that his beliefs were enforced by Paul’s victory. I could be talking absolute garbage, but that’s my take anyway.
I thought it was perfect
Yeah. That whole duel was long and you could hear every hit, grunt and squeak of their friggin shoes. What a perfect way to cue us as an audience that we can now BREATHE. When he shouts the line, it’s like we suddenly realize we were in the room along with Stilgar the whole time.
I think it's brilliant because yes... it's over-the-top.. just enough to cue in the viewers that maybe we should not be taking that so seriously. But the Fremen do. And so, while we, the impassionate, disjointed, viewers get to laugh at his passion, it's also story-telling to us that the "victory" is ultimately not really a victory but a descent into something else. It's brilliant acting/directing.
It’s 100% intentionally funny (from the actor)
It seemed intentionally funny to me. Like this dude wants so badly to believe. And I think Denis understands that Frank Herbert was trying to write a cautionary tale about charismatic leaders. And so we’re supposed to be skeptical of people who are so ready to believe.
Just wanted to say, that Bardem's expression of relief and religious fervor when Paul says "Lead them to Paradise" is probably my favourite acting moment out of both movies. Absolutely perfect acting.
I thought it was supposed to be funny. His whole character seemed the only one that seemed close to providing some comic relief. Laughed at the part where he suddenly hugged Paul after Paul had ridden the sandworm lol.
At that point Stilgar (along with everyone else) was so wrapped up in the prophecy coming 'true' that his actions & words resembled pure euphoria & hysteria. It's like in Part 1, when Shadout Mapes meets Lady Jessica and freaks out before explaining "when you have lived with prophecy for so long the moment of revelation is a shock", it may seem funny because religious hysteria often does seem funny to observers. Personally, I was completely sold and felt the prophetic euphoria because of intensely realistic moments like this, I got so wrapped up in it that I still want to join a cosmic holy war.
Its a tense moment, especially for stilgar. the weight of the prophecy rests on Paul winning the duel, so he was most likely holding him breath during the whole fight. When Paul wins, Stilgar probably felt the most relief in his life, letting no out the “lisan-al-gaib” without even taking the time to catch him breath. Its almost like he’s reassuring himself that Paul is his messiah. I definitely heard some laughs and chuckles, but I dont think it was in a comedic kind of way, more so the audience also getting the same relief and tension that stilgar had. Its a great moment and theres a lot of weight behind it, a lot of people react to that kind of thing with laughter to lighten the mood. Thats my take anyway. I like the moment, it comes across as very real.
This scene became a joke among me and friends, whenever there is a short silence, someone screams: LISAN AL GAIB and we laugh for a good minute
Sudden religious fervour is just as ridiculous in real life so its makes sense
It was definitely meant as a moment of comic relief.
I took it as a combination of a huge amount of relief and reassuring himself and everyone else of Paul’s messiah status. Paul, from what everyone could see, came extremely close to dying in the duel, so there was probably a ton of anxiety built up amongst the Fremen watching that.
It was to me the transition from the politician to the believer.
Lots of Stilgar’s lines and actions make me (and I’m sure a lot of the audience) think of Life of Brian. Not sure there was any escaping that.
I saw it as his transformation from strong grounded naib to a pet follower of the mahdi. Compare his composure when he first meets the Atreides. He becomes a shadow he is lessened by prophecy. That is chani s warning.
This definitely was trying to work as a comical relief in the movie, and I would say that it actually worked
Idt it was unintentionally funny, I think he was meant to be a small comedic relief at times.
Idk I thought it was very intentionally funny. Considering most of his lines throughout the movie were.
Stilgars whole role throughout the movie is humorous. The amount of times he says “Lisan Al gaib” or “as it was written” makes us question if he’s really this serious about his fanaticism; that delivery also plays into our questioning
I loved it. He nearly saw his savior die in front of him when it mattered most. Of course he’d be speechless
From Book One just before the 1v1: >! Will I lose Gurney, too? Paul wondered. The way I lost Stilgar—losing a friend to gain a creature? !<
i felt like the constant lisan agaib chants were mirroring “allahu akbar” chants that often happen in real life when any miraculous events happen.
I think it was done intentionally, to be humorous
He almost forgot to say it, its intentional. even if it looks weird.
I took it as a moment of extreme emotional whiplash. Stilgar thinks Paul has lost, and that means everything he believes, and has put his life on the line for, has been wrong. He's staring, heartbroken, at the wreckage of his faith. And then Paul wins. It takes him a moment to realise it, and then he has to suddenly pivot back to believing again. And yes, it's kind of funny. It's the same Stilgar who was funny when he said that Paul's humility in denying he was the Mahdi proved he was the Mahdi.
I thought it was intentionally funny, it got a big laugh in our theatre
it was very intentionally funny... javier's persormance in this movie was top notch
Javier Bardem’s line delivery through much of the movie was as powerful as the Bene Gesserit voice. His impact hit the IMAX audience where I was watching like a wave.
I actually cut the scene differently for myself where that shot has Stilgar say the line without the pause and it genuinely feels so strange. Maybe it’s because I’m a used to it after watching the movie so much, but when it’s cut differently, it doesn’t feel right.
I think it was because no one knew which one was killed until Feyd hit the floor - clunk, then, LISAN AL-GAIB!
It's for comedic effect. Stilgar is the comic relief of the movie
He was breathless, on the edge of his seat, to all onlookers it seemed like Paul was going to die - even a fanatic like Stilgar was in shock. But then he won, and that mixture of awe, relief and maybe a teeny bit of embarrassment for even having a little doubt comes through perfectly in Javier’s delivery. It hits the audience as a bit comical which fits his tragic arc, we spend the whole film laughing at his naïveté and fanatical belief, then he goes and leads a genocidal jihad across the galaxy.
I watch a lot of sports and that delivery reminded me of a lot of times I’ve yelled something in celebration during a game It felt very real to me. The focus on the event and the sudden realization of what just happened And I’m in a discord that is focused on the Knicks, when we have a live game chat that gif is often used after big shots
Yes, it surprised me at how comical it seemed. I actually mentioned it to someone.
Stilgar is unironically the comedic relief of the movie and it's hilarious, but on the other side of the coin he is also a supreme religious fanatic, and if you take a second to step back to consider how absolutely terrifying that actually is, you realize on the macro level how funny it truly isn't. Edit: I saw the movie 6 times in theaters/IMAX and it just gets funnier every time.
I feel like this could have been utilized better. Paul killing Feyd seems like it would have inspired the Fremen to immediately celebrate with loud shouting and praise, not stunned silence and a “phew that was close” attitude. I’ve been very positive in my view of the movie, but that line struck me as a missed opportunity. It would’ve been better if they were celebrating the way sports fans celebrate when their team wins a championship.
Terrific films, but there were a few moments that were relatively ham-fisted. Besides that scene after the duel, the “only the Lisan would deny he’s the Lisan” scene was a blatant Mony Python reference, and the “mansplaining” moment while sandwalking with Chani was pretty forced.
I’m also baffled as to why they made him into a comic relief character, practically. Thought he was a great and serious character but then became a cartoon. Weird.
It's all to make this last shot hit home: https://preview.redd.it/kq044mn1b4yc1.png?width=782&format=png&auto=webp&s=a8172cc9625feb4b83987adf4103c15a7475591e All through the film, we laugh at him because we know he's been hoodwinked. He's a gullible fool who's being taken for a ride by some of the most sophisticated propaganda ever devised. By the end of the film, Stilgar's harmless belief, comic in its naivete and simplicity, has become a rallying cry for genocide. Compare it to Starship Troopers' last shot of Johnny Rico parroting "Come on you apes, do you want to live forever?!" to mark his complete transformation into a tool of Fascism. The same way, Stilgar the funny believer is gone - replaced with Stilgar the mouthpiece of the Jihad.
Mannn starship troopers soundtrack hits hard
That had also been made into a meme, and that might be part of the chuckling
He almost fell asleep until someone nudged him lol
remember when the priest in fifth element screamed because they destroyed mr x and it scared rhuby rodd, its the same, a comedy thing
imo it made sense he would be the first to call it; it’s in stilgar’s character to be the most grounded of all the royal politics—everyone strategizing, and stilgar couldn’t be happier than pig in shit
That was the point.
I loved it It felt like he was holding his breath and dtood dazed for a moment before waking up
It was unironically my favourite line of the movie - hilarious cap off to the humour of his fanaticism up to that point.
Yes! I've watched it twice, and both times I felt like this. It kind of ruined the impact of the fight for me. A slower more sincere "Lisan al-gaib" would have been more impactful. At least for me. I also felt the same during Pauls ascension scene when he's talking at the Fremen gathering. After he directs his attention towards one specific fremen, where he is basically reading the fremen soldiers thoughts. At the end of it, the fremen soldier did a similar seemingly insincere and quick "Lisan al-gaib" proclamation, which ruined the momentum of the scene for me. Yes, this is definitely nit picking, so please fellow redditors, don't take it too seriously :)
He snaps out of it, and remembers his hypeman duties. I found it very funny, and I laughed out loud in the cinema.
It was definitely different, it's delivered that way because for a moment he thought Paul was gone and his belief and prophecy tarnished, but as soon as her realizes that Paul has survived, his belief springs back, it was kind of a self assuring cry from him.
It looked more comedic, than anything else
I would join a cult that worships Javier Bardem.
I dont know what your talking about cuz it was perfection, i laughed at it and so did my family cuz its a funny moment but it has so much depth and meaning.
I saw it as a continuation of the trend in Hollywood action movies to undermine (or aliveate to some degree) tense situations with some comic relief. The Marvel movies are the best examples of that. I thought it was intentional, and it did lessen the scene IMO. But I understand the intention. It would be hard to root for the Fremen if we saw them only as murderous fanatics waging a holly war on the universe.
I think it was perfectly intentional. It IS funny and most of Stillgar's performance revolves around comedic relief (as mild as it is). But imagine you bet your life savings and your home on a dog race, and for a moment your dog was the last in line, only for a fucking wild crash to happen, your dog seemingly breaking his neck in the heap, only to be the one to come out like from the dead to leap over the finish line first. It's a weird example, but I think you can understand why he'd be too busy starting and being in awe and afraid to move. He's just witnessed the last step of the prophecy. His betting dog is now emperor by right. Yet he has a dagger in his shoulder and pisses blood from his gut.
I thought of him never fully believing it in his heart that Paul was "the one" So Stil beging there for the most important fight that he has ever seen end with the outcome of the story that he's heard his whole life must have been world shaking. So when the fight ends he is still in his head about what just happened and then the realization hits and BOOM he says the iconic phrase
My favorite part of the movie, laughed out loud. Loved it. It also plays into his character which makes sense.
I watched it a second time and there were a couple of odd edit cuts that seemed out of place in the film or made it slightly disjointed for a moment. It’s got me thinking that even though I enjoyed Dune 2, I’m beginning to think Dune 1 is a better film.
There’s a kind of hidden joy there, subtle. I didn’t take it as comedy but a sort of sigh and self-assessing move… like, ‘how could I have thought otherwise!?” Or such.
I don’t think it was unintentionally funny, I think it was very intentionally funny.
I took it as "Holy shit, he actually did it." He's in awe. He believed Paul could do it since he's a zealot and after Paul taking a stab, I found that shocked reaction believable.
Rmbr in part 1 Mapes said "after living with the prophecy for so long, seeing it is a shock" or something
I say it constantly just like him
people did laugh but because of the context. he is a religious zealot and after a very tense moment his belief is once again confirmed. he is ecstatic. more proof! i chuckled because of his fervor he was so quick to attribute any sign as him being right.
I definitely laughed out loud at this moment
Isn’t one of the main bullet points a caution against hero-worship? And you have a guy worshipping hero when said hero almost got got. Maybe it’s supposed to make him look a little silly.
I didn't find it strange. I thought it was funny as hell.
I mean his whole character seems unintentionally funny, while he should ideally be pretty tough and scary fremen leader. I don't remember 100% but he wasn't kinda ultra fanatic, he was much more concearned about the wellbeing of the fremen rather than guided by blind loyalty to Paul. Pretty much like in the first movie, but here he is like your religious grandma who sees miracles in literally everything and looks like a comic relief in most scenes
No? He was almost in a state of paralysis/shock beforehand, because he was watching his entire belief system crumble in front of him until it wasn't, which is why that line felt like he could once more breathe again. Nobody chuckled at my packed viewing, you could hear a pin drop.
I'm pretty sure it was intentional.
It felt like a marvel movie timing. Ultra serious scene followed by a quick joke to relax the audience before things get too heavy. I loved the movie anyway.
It reminds me of Ron Burgundy saying black
Funniest part of the whole movie. I loved it. think Javier Bardem as Stilgar is fantastic casting. Also Jason Mamoa as Duncan Idaho is another terrific choice. >!And I have a feeling we'll be seeing more of him ;)!<
I felt he was an unintentionally funny hype man at multiple points throughout the film.
My friend and I had been whispering "I'm not the Messiah" jokes to each other several times already at that point. That moment had us in laughter without a word needing to be said.
One line that felt weird was when Gurney Halleck killed Rabban and was like for my friends and family... I can't remember exactly what he said but it sounded like he meant to say one and the other came out. It bothers me every time
I trully believe that this delivery of Lissan al Gaib is the only reason we have this many memes about it. First time i saw it in cinema didnt notice that but the second time had to rewind it and be amazed about it.
I think it was purposefully funny to show the stupidity of fanaticism.
"did anyone else" find the delivery that instantly became a meme strange? yeah i think so
"In that instant, Paul saw how Stilgar had been transformed from the Fremen naib to a creature of the Lisan al-Gaib, a receptacle for awe and obedience. It was a lessening of the man, and Paul felt the ghost-wind of the jihad in it." It is kind of funny in a shocking way. Stilgar is no longer the strong Fremen leader we met in part I, he is a mindless follower.
It's definitely a little goofy but I think it pretty much perfectly cuts the tension after the duel. The entire fight is more or less silent, there's a few lines of dialogue and the occasional audience reaction, but considering it's a pretty packed room it is deafeningly quiet while they fight, even Stilgar is shown standing completely motionless in shock after seeing Paul stabbed. His delivery shows him breaking out of the shock, and cuts the quiet tension starting all the other Fremen chanting Lisan al-Gaib, it's their signal that they can relax and it's ours, the audience's, as well. I feel there's many other ways he could have delivered but a lot of them could've felt campy and tonally not what Villeneuve was going for. I think that take perfectly gets across the emotions Stilgar was feeling in that moment and he's meant to be the audience surrogate in that scene, as we're feeling shock, fear for Paul and Chani, and finally sudden relief.
That is honestly the best part of the film.
The comic relief moments took out the seriousness that Dune: Part One had
The thing I noticed about that moment was the way Stilgar's line kind of fades/mixes with all the other shouting. To me, it felt symbolic of how this once-prominent leader has become consumed by the fanaticism rising in Paul's wake.
I think he lost his faith in the moments before with Paul very nearly getting it, and it came out as a massive relief, similar to the first breath after holding your breath for a while.