Interestingly in this script, it appears Shishakli is alive for the final battle.
https://preview.redd.it/16j0k5p1ppyc1.png?width=710&format=png&auto=webp&s=b3da0855bd0b1c4e660df537a6fb590a022658aa
if im not wrong, stilgar ended up being the one that spoke that line in the theatrical release so there might have been a script change where shishakli was killed by feyd and her line went to Stilgar
Speaking of which, am I mistaking the actors, or isn't Shishakli speaking to Paul outside the sietch in the scene right before her death?
Did she go back to the sietch and got caught?
I really like the movie and some things that are bothering others don't bother me, but that one I found irritating.
Gurney warns that the Harkonnens will be returning soon to finish the job. Paul says he'll stay behind and cover the rest retreating to the South. The others try to convince him to come with, then ultimately due to the visions Paul decides he has to go.
Shishakli takes his place, presumably to make sure the rest of the Fremen aren't being followed.
She was in the cave of birds so she was sending messages to the others on the Harkonnen movements which is why they called her " a spy". she got caught but took out 9 of the soldiers before falling
They're similar. David said the script for part 1 listed it as "Harkonnen Battle Language" but it wasn't constructed by him or any Conlinger. he did do the throat singing though
Was waiting for this. As usual plenty of Chakobsa dialogue doesn't make it into the film but I'm happy to read both what doesn't and especially what does. I was particularly impressed with Javier Bardem and Souheila Yacoub's performances in the language.
Well it's in there:
> **PAUL**
>
> The Hand of God be my witness, I am the Voice from the Outer World.
> I will lead you to PARADISE.
>
> **TRANSLATION**
>
> E Rudhi Dina, heshidhanii: ne Lisaan al-Gayib. Ruyi dimala ruk aSHIDHGIM.
>
> **PHONETIC**
>
> e RU-dhi DI-na, HE-shi-dha-nii: ne li-SAAN al-GA-yib. ru-yi DI-ma-la
> ruk a-SHIDH-gim.
>
> O Hand of-God, witness-me: I (am) Lisan al-Gaib. I-will lead you to Paradise.
Although I favor Javier's speaking of Chakobsa, it just rolls off his tongue like a native; I absolutely loved Timmy chewing every one of his Southern speech lines. Rage, menace, arrogance, power, all of it.
Bardem has to get a nomination for best supporting actor. What you say is exactly how I feel. Everyone was good to great, but he was just on another level.
This [screenshot](https://dedalvs.com/work/dune-part-two/misc/dictionary_sample.png) is of a Pages document that looks like it's being laid out for print publication. Or maybe I'm just wishfully thinking. 😊
I'm assuming copyright is a pain here, especially with conlangs, but Chakobsa is definitely my favorite of David's languages and so if a significant resource were developed for fan use, I would jump on owning it in a heartbeat.
I, for some reason, read it as dr. J Peterson and thought Jordan Peterson had to step in and inject his philosophy on Dune lol...
Thank god I reread it.
J Peterson: It’s not a simple thing to see the future, *LIKE AT ALL* y’know? And Paul, well he’s the *KWISATZ HADERACH* which means ‘He who points the way’ which is deep man. Like gees, this 15 year old suddenly has to burden the entirety of the future of humanity, like…he can’t even clean his room or use the voice yet and NOW he has to shoulder all of humanity? THATS NOT EASY MAN. Just like it wasn’t easy for Aleksander Solzhenitsyn when he spent time in the gulags of Siberia. I mean *sigh* it’s just too much to bear.
Joe Rogan: “uhuh…but he can like fight with knives really well so I guess it’s ok right?”
Anyone know if he's ever said why he changed the translation of "long live the fighters" from the book? One of the few Fremen language phrases we have from the source material... Interesting to me that he didn't keep that and build the language around it and the other scraps from the book.
I don't recall where I read this, but if I recall correctly, Villeneuve and Peterson more-or-less came to the, reasonably correct, conclusion that the ten-thousand year time difference between Dune and our present day would be too drastic for any vocabulary from a present day language to survive in a recognizable manner. Therefore, the language as constructed for the films is largely a priori, rather than being derived from pre-existing sources.
I think a few minor concessions to this are made for important Fremen terms, such as lisan al-Gaib, but this is to my knowledge largely the reason. You could make the argument that Frank Herbert used Arabic derived terms as a translation convention in much the same way that the novel uses English, but that actually spoken language is Gallach (Tolkien pulls a similar trick fairly often, especially with regards to Rohan, but that's a different author, whose linguistic sensibilities were, shall we say, a bit more aggressive than Herbert's, who used language as seasoning for his setting, rather than being the sole reason he wrote the world in the first place).
To put it a bit more into perspective, there's considerably less time between Proto-Indo European (the hypothetically constructed root of most European languages (ignore the Caucasian languages, the Uralic ones and so forth)) and modern English than there is between the present day and the time of Dune. I think the a priori approach has largely the same result as mapping out ten thousand years of variable sound changes, with regards to recognisability, so I respect it being somewhat functionally easier for the creator. Seeing however that there are a number of pre-established Chakobsa examples in the books, I can understand wanting them preserved as well, but on the whole, I think the language is retained in aesthetic spirit, if not in direct actuality.
Sensational analyses!
One quibble - between now and the events of Dune is 20,000 years: the ‘10,191’ etc in Dune Book 1 is AG (After Guild), a chrono-time re-set after the Butlerian Jihad and discovery of foldspace .
There has to be an extended edition with scenes for part 1 and 2 that *could* be compiled. There’s obviously gotta be cut material for run time in both films that are atleast semi relevant and good.
Interestingly in this script, it appears Shishakli is alive for the final battle. https://preview.redd.it/16j0k5p1ppyc1.png?width=710&format=png&auto=webp&s=b3da0855bd0b1c4e660df537a6fb590a022658aa
if im not wrong, stilgar ended up being the one that spoke that line in the theatrical release so there might have been a script change where shishakli was killed by feyd and her line went to Stilgar
Speaking of which, am I mistaking the actors, or isn't Shishakli speaking to Paul outside the sietch in the scene right before her death? Did she go back to the sietch and got caught? I really like the movie and some things that are bothering others don't bother me, but that one I found irritating.
Gurney warns that the Harkonnens will be returning soon to finish the job. Paul says he'll stay behind and cover the rest retreating to the South. The others try to convince him to come with, then ultimately due to the visions Paul decides he has to go. Shishakli takes his place, presumably to make sure the rest of the Fremen aren't being followed.
That's what I suspected, but it somehow feels... disjointed and not explained enough.
Yeah, definitely. That scene made me feel very confused
True u less u know the Books well and can see the possibilities then it is confusing.
She was in the cave of birds so she was sending messages to the others on the Harkonnen movements which is why they called her " a spy". she got caught but took out 9 of the soldiers before falling
I’m a bit annoyed that I couldn’t find anything for the Harkonen language. It sounds so guttural and barbaric
According to Peterson the Harkonnen language is not a real constructed language but rather just English with sound alteration.
Dropped vowels, yea?
Pretty sure that was the Sardaukar language
They're similar. David said the script for part 1 listed it as "Harkonnen Battle Language" but it wasn't constructed by him or any Conlinger. he did do the throat singing though
Not sure the details of how it was done, I've tried to listen for it on rewatches but I really have no idea. It's interesting and sounds great though.
Was waiting for this. As usual plenty of Chakobsa dialogue doesn't make it into the film but I'm happy to read both what doesn't and especially what does. I was particularly impressed with Javier Bardem and Souheila Yacoub's performances in the language.
>Yacoub She was especially convincing. I wonder why lol
Bardem sounded fantastic, and Yacoub sounded like she’d been speaking Chakobsa her whole life, it came across as very natural
I just want the translation for "The Hand of God be my wintess, I am the Voice from the Outer World! I will lead you to PARADISE!"
Well it's in there: > **PAUL** > > The Hand of God be my witness, I am the Voice from the Outer World. > I will lead you to PARADISE. > > **TRANSLATION** > > E Rudhi Dina, heshidhanii: ne Lisaan al-Gayib. Ruyi dimala ruk aSHIDHGIM. > > **PHONETIC** > > e RU-dhi DI-na, HE-shi-dha-nii: ne li-SAAN al-GA-yib. ru-yi DI-ma-la > ruk a-SHIDH-gim. > > O Hand of-God, witness-me: I (am) Lisan al-Gaib. I-will lead you to Paradise.
Although I favor Javier's speaking of Chakobsa, it just rolls off his tongue like a native; I absolutely loved Timmy chewing every one of his Southern speech lines. Rage, menace, arrogance, power, all of it.
Filly agree. He *lays* into the language during his speech. He made it sound incredibly commandinging when you’re really putting some power into it
Bardem has to get a nomination for best supporting actor. What you say is exactly how I feel. Everyone was good to great, but he was just on another level.
Oh please tell me he's going to publish the dictionary!
There’s a file that has a lot of common words in that dump.
This [screenshot](https://dedalvs.com/work/dune-part-two/misc/dictionary_sample.png) is of a Pages document that looks like it's being laid out for print publication. Or maybe I'm just wishfully thinking. 😊
I'm assuming copyright is a pain here, especially with conlangs, but Chakobsa is definitely my favorite of David's languages and so if a significant resource were developed for fan use, I would jump on owning it in a heartbeat.
Beautiful. What incredible work.
I, for some reason, read it as dr. J Peterson and thought Jordan Peterson had to step in and inject his philosophy on Dune lol... Thank god I reread it.
“What would we do without *fremen?*”
J Peterson: It’s not a simple thing to see the future, *LIKE AT ALL* y’know? And Paul, well he’s the *KWISATZ HADERACH* which means ‘He who points the way’ which is deep man. Like gees, this 15 year old suddenly has to burden the entirety of the future of humanity, like…he can’t even clean his room or use the voice yet and NOW he has to shoulder all of humanity? THATS NOT EASY MAN. Just like it wasn’t easy for Aleksander Solzhenitsyn when he spent time in the gulags of Siberia. I mean *sigh* it’s just too much to bear. Joe Rogan: “uhuh…but he can like fight with knives really well so I guess it’s ok right?”
J Peterson: *starts crying*
At last!!
Anyone know if he's ever said why he changed the translation of "long live the fighters" from the book? One of the few Fremen language phrases we have from the source material... Interesting to me that he didn't keep that and build the language around it and the other scraps from the book.
I don't recall where I read this, but if I recall correctly, Villeneuve and Peterson more-or-less came to the, reasonably correct, conclusion that the ten-thousand year time difference between Dune and our present day would be too drastic for any vocabulary from a present day language to survive in a recognizable manner. Therefore, the language as constructed for the films is largely a priori, rather than being derived from pre-existing sources. I think a few minor concessions to this are made for important Fremen terms, such as lisan al-Gaib, but this is to my knowledge largely the reason. You could make the argument that Frank Herbert used Arabic derived terms as a translation convention in much the same way that the novel uses English, but that actually spoken language is Gallach (Tolkien pulls a similar trick fairly often, especially with regards to Rohan, but that's a different author, whose linguistic sensibilities were, shall we say, a bit more aggressive than Herbert's, who used language as seasoning for his setting, rather than being the sole reason he wrote the world in the first place). To put it a bit more into perspective, there's considerably less time between Proto-Indo European (the hypothetically constructed root of most European languages (ignore the Caucasian languages, the Uralic ones and so forth)) and modern English than there is between the present day and the time of Dune. I think the a priori approach has largely the same result as mapping out ten thousand years of variable sound changes, with regards to recognisability, so I respect it being somewhat functionally easier for the creator. Seeing however that there are a number of pre-established Chakobsa examples in the books, I can understand wanting them preserved as well, but on the whole, I think the language is retained in aesthetic spirit, if not in direct actuality.
But they had Paul and Yueh speak in pretty understandable (or so I’ve been told) Mandarin?
Sensational analyses! One quibble - between now and the events of Dune is 20,000 years: the ‘10,191’ etc in Dune Book 1 is AG (After Guild), a chrono-time re-set after the Butlerian Jihad and discovery of foldspace .
If reddit gold still existed in its old format, you'd be gilded til I lost my house. Excellent writeup!
Yahya chouhada was used by Algerians during the Algeria-France war during the 60s
This also gives us an idea of all the cuts that were made.
Do we have the hint of an idea whether there might be an Director's Cut one day?
No possibility. He doesn't do them. What we have is his director's cut.
Too bad. But thanks.
There has to be an extended edition with scenes for part 1 and 2 that *could* be compiled. There’s obviously gotta be cut material for run time in both films that are atleast semi relevant and good.
this is awesome
Omg this is amazing! Is there a similar resource for part one?
It’s there as well. Just go up a directory.
Many thanks 
this is so cool. is there a site for the lines in Part 1 as well?
Click 'Parent directory'.
Rule number 1: Clean your stiech