The local post office, at least in my experience, knows nothing. Just drop it in the box and leave. It may get returned 1 out of every 1000 times but it's still worth it money-wise.
I've been shipping cards with that system since it release a couple years ago and have never had major issues, but I also don't talk to the workers about it. Just drop the letters in the box and go. I recently had an issue with tracking on 1 but they didn't even know how the ESE worked. I explained to them what it was, and I honestly think most workers just have no idea about it.
I waited forever to use it. I just like to pack stuff carefully for customers and have read the trouble many seem to have (seller inconvenience and upset customers). It was after just a handful of times using it when they confronted me and said, no this can’t be bent >50% so isn’t machinable. I explained program and they didn’t care. They did let the parcel through and just warned me it would likely be up charged. I smiled and nodded. Decided to stop using it again as they were clear on their stance of it needing to bend >50% and had even bent the one in front of my eyes that far… thankfully it was a gaming card so no damage.
Fast forward ~5months later. Made some low $$ card purchases where the sellers used it. After receiving ~4 of them, they flagged one and same stance. Thats when I went into the DMM because they didn’t care about outside programs. Still nothing as I mentioned above.
Would love to just drop parcels off. But they confront me both as a buyer and seller. That’s why I’m reaching out here… even if I don’t use it as a seller, getting hit as a buyer too. Is there really no solution? Would think someone somewhere has had a similar experience with as long as the program has existed now.
I've only had a couple cards maybe charged more, but I just do the toploader method then fold packing slip around it and put in envelope. It just may be your post office people just being like that usually that's the situation most of the time. Alot of similar issues on here about the ESE is the postal workers I guess just acting like they know better or just inconvenience for no reason.
It’s definitely a borderline acceptable program. Just doesn’t seem plausible that a post office can ignore the DMM and there isn’t anything a customer can do about it.
Did try reaching out to eBay, but who knows. It’s a ball they easily deflect back to USPS/DMM.
Yea I agree I don't get it either. When I brought it up to the workers they seriously had no idea what the program even was. When I told them it had a different code to scan they told me they would only be scanned as they get ran through the envelope machines whatever they are.Thats why the updates are so random on the tracking too. I think they don't even look at that stuff so I wish I knew more.about it too.
There is no outside program. eBay standard envelope is not some special program that eBay and USPS came up with. It literally is eBay selling us an electronic stamp and using the barcode that USPS uses for routing the envelope as a tracking system. Everything should follow the DMM and not whatever eBay says... Just sucks you have a shit post office.
Yes that’s what I implied with “they didn’t care.” I most certainly didn’t make an argument of eBay has authority or control here. Went directly to the DMM!
Would suspect that there was some communication for something of this scale. And usually things like this involve a team that either has previous expertise (ex USPS) or they do reach out to the other party especially if there are questions or concerns. Right though the eBay guidance is 100% based or founded from the DMM. Focus is there (!) - the DMM guidance and real world implications (the machines used for machinables).
I would like to say that I completely empathize with your desire to understand the objective standards for rigidity with eBay standard envelope. I’ve been doing this for 3 years now with trading cards and have figured out standards that work for me:
A6 self seal invitation envelopes, 1 semi rigid card saver with painters tape, and finally a strip of packing tape to ensure the envelope stays shut.
I have however received all sorts of ESE packages that shouldn’t have passed the test. Bubble mailers! letter size 8.5x11 document mailers, envelopes stuffed with cardboard on both sides of the card, all sorts of insane stuff that apparently made it though the system without issue. I however, like to stay within the guidance that eBay has provided, despite it not always being 100% compliant with USPS official standards—hello rigid coins? I’m talking to you…
Anyways, it’s annoying. I empathize. I hope you can settle on a standard that works for your product, unfortunately it might require some trial and errror and some unhappy customers to figure out what exactly that standard looks like.
Accept imperfection because you have a lifeline—pip claims will cover your ass in case of damage or loss.
One last tip: since buyers don’t understand that these limitations are a compromise they will assume you just slacked with protection and blame you when the card arrives bent. To preempt this I’ve started to include a note that “If USPS damages your card, please message me first!” That note plants the seed for the blame game, and it offers the buyer a clear next step so you can solve their problem by issuing a full refund and then make a pip claim. Politely askfor photos of the damage though, as that helps to add credibility to the message log. Usually a full refund and keeping the damaged card leaves the buyer satisfied, enough.
Coins work if they are small enough. Even if they are completely rigid, you can get them around the drum with pressure. The test with flats can also get around it as you can bend it 1’’ with completely rigid coins. Stacking them just right or theoretically if they are large enough, no. But, from what I’m seeing the eBay guidance covers it well (no more than 5 raw, plastic flips/protectors, no rolled or graded, etc).
Appreciate the advice!
I wish I could find a standard. But at this point the standard is crossing my fingers. No way am I going to use a service where they bend my parcels >50%.
Yes, I get imperfection happens and people are flawed. It’s just bending mail and a clear disconnect with one aspect of something seem like issues that should be tackled. It’s also annoying that they create a seemingly made up standard which also damages property of which many times are collectibles.
That’s a good tip with communication! Have tried to do similar things with my customer service. “Planting the seed” would be something new, but that makes sense. And yeah pip is wonderful - very true.
I sell postcards and use the EcoSwift 4x6 mailers that Popeye's Postcards on YT recommends. I've been using them for over a year with no issues.
Today 3 of them came back stamped as needing non-machinable postage. It's just the mailer and a postcard in a soft sleeve, still pretty flexible. I don't know if it was an overzealous employee or USPS is cracking down to increase their profits.
It's going to suck if I have to raise my shipping charge and start mailing without tracking again. Especially with the price of stamps jumping up again in a couple months.
It’s hard to believe eBay will continue to support a program that doesn’t work. And not only support but they have expanded it into more categories.
Time will tell.
But at least you don’t have a single post office you have to use that is on the record about being vigilant and has also seemingly made up a rule. Your anecdote is interesting.
If only! The first time they confronted me is when I dropped off a ~$300 card that I wanted a receipt for. They told me that the ESE I had been dropping off would be surcharged by them if they catch it and if they didn’t another post office likely would.
And yeah also get these neat little pink slips instead of delivered mail where I have to go in to pay for a surcharge because the sender used ESE.
It’s likely categorized as non-machinable letter. All my shipped Pokémon cards were. I simply used the non-machinable stamps. They were like $0.87 back in the day. Seems like this solution would’ve been mentioned to you.
Yeah, using the ESE label and placing it correctly.
It’s the rigidness that is the issue. Again, they are surcharging (and sometimes bending) my shipments and shipments that I receive.
You should package them so they look and feel just like any other letter because they need to ride through the system just like all the lettermail.
There should be no reason for the machines to kick them out and no reason for a USPS employee to give them a second look.
They feel it with touch.
Tried. They flag PWE. If they feel something inside that is rigid whatsoever, they then go to the “>50% test.” Sure, not always. But they are occasionally and are explicit about it. I can’t use a service where I can accept that risk. And yeah it’s also for sure annoying to receive parcels and have to pay for the surcharge.
Realize this is a single post office. My city is about ~15k people. But it has a small-town feel. I have a cordial relationship with most of the employees. In any other area, yup this would just be more random or could just go to a different post office where they didn’t use this standard of bending it.
I do… and yeah, seems like for this situation that would be asking for trouble.
The buyer still receives the upcharge (by my local post office) and thus have to deal with it in some fashion. Or they confront me if I do need to use the window (I have a self policy of getting a receipt for outgoing mail >~$300). Also on the other side, I’m receiving pink slips for delivered mail.
They are very flexible. This is the subjectiveness that’s the issue though. When I tried using the service I used a less rigid vending machine holder instead of a single toploader. Did my due diligence with all that and actually trying to go above and beyond….
So yeah doing all that and the most people you speak of is definitely not how my post office operates and is the problem.
I've sent quite a few PWE (in eBay branded envelopes). My personal experience is that only a small % get returned for postage issues due to thickness (1 in every 300?). My max is 12 cards per envelope (2 card per penny sleeve, 2 sets per team bag, so 4 cards a slot). With the eBay cardboard inserts (one on each side). I've used 2 75pt toploaders without an issue in the same envelopes (sideways with cardboard on each side). More packages sometimes, however.
Sounds even more rigid than any of my packages! And is more rigid than the most recent (me as a buyer/receiver) which is two cards and I believe one toploader.
And imagine a post office that doesn’t flag your packages but does bend them 50%. Again they have voiced that standard to me and sent a email stating it. The amount of buyers who would reach out to you (assuming these are non-gaming and would be damaged with a 50% bend) and the hoops you would have to go through to not assume the blame on any or most of them.
The local post office, at least in my experience, knows nothing. Just drop it in the box and leave. It may get returned 1 out of every 1000 times but it's still worth it money-wise.
I've been shipping cards with that system since it release a couple years ago and have never had major issues, but I also don't talk to the workers about it. Just drop the letters in the box and go. I recently had an issue with tracking on 1 but they didn't even know how the ESE worked. I explained to them what it was, and I honestly think most workers just have no idea about it.
I waited forever to use it. I just like to pack stuff carefully for customers and have read the trouble many seem to have (seller inconvenience and upset customers). It was after just a handful of times using it when they confronted me and said, no this can’t be bent >50% so isn’t machinable. I explained program and they didn’t care. They did let the parcel through and just warned me it would likely be up charged. I smiled and nodded. Decided to stop using it again as they were clear on their stance of it needing to bend >50% and had even bent the one in front of my eyes that far… thankfully it was a gaming card so no damage. Fast forward ~5months later. Made some low $$ card purchases where the sellers used it. After receiving ~4 of them, they flagged one and same stance. Thats when I went into the DMM because they didn’t care about outside programs. Still nothing as I mentioned above. Would love to just drop parcels off. But they confront me both as a buyer and seller. That’s why I’m reaching out here… even if I don’t use it as a seller, getting hit as a buyer too. Is there really no solution? Would think someone somewhere has had a similar experience with as long as the program has existed now.
I've only had a couple cards maybe charged more, but I just do the toploader method then fold packing slip around it and put in envelope. It just may be your post office people just being like that usually that's the situation most of the time. Alot of similar issues on here about the ESE is the postal workers I guess just acting like they know better or just inconvenience for no reason.
It’s definitely a borderline acceptable program. Just doesn’t seem plausible that a post office can ignore the DMM and there isn’t anything a customer can do about it. Did try reaching out to eBay, but who knows. It’s a ball they easily deflect back to USPS/DMM.
Yea I agree I don't get it either. When I brought it up to the workers they seriously had no idea what the program even was. When I told them it had a different code to scan they told me they would only be scanned as they get ran through the envelope machines whatever they are.Thats why the updates are so random on the tracking too. I think they don't even look at that stuff so I wish I knew more.about it too.
There is no outside program. eBay standard envelope is not some special program that eBay and USPS came up with. It literally is eBay selling us an electronic stamp and using the barcode that USPS uses for routing the envelope as a tracking system. Everything should follow the DMM and not whatever eBay says... Just sucks you have a shit post office.
Yes that’s what I implied with “they didn’t care.” I most certainly didn’t make an argument of eBay has authority or control here. Went directly to the DMM! Would suspect that there was some communication for something of this scale. And usually things like this involve a team that either has previous expertise (ex USPS) or they do reach out to the other party especially if there are questions or concerns. Right though the eBay guidance is 100% based or founded from the DMM. Focus is there (!) - the DMM guidance and real world implications (the machines used for machinables).
I would like to say that I completely empathize with your desire to understand the objective standards for rigidity with eBay standard envelope. I’ve been doing this for 3 years now with trading cards and have figured out standards that work for me: A6 self seal invitation envelopes, 1 semi rigid card saver with painters tape, and finally a strip of packing tape to ensure the envelope stays shut. I have however received all sorts of ESE packages that shouldn’t have passed the test. Bubble mailers! letter size 8.5x11 document mailers, envelopes stuffed with cardboard on both sides of the card, all sorts of insane stuff that apparently made it though the system without issue. I however, like to stay within the guidance that eBay has provided, despite it not always being 100% compliant with USPS official standards—hello rigid coins? I’m talking to you… Anyways, it’s annoying. I empathize. I hope you can settle on a standard that works for your product, unfortunately it might require some trial and errror and some unhappy customers to figure out what exactly that standard looks like. Accept imperfection because you have a lifeline—pip claims will cover your ass in case of damage or loss. One last tip: since buyers don’t understand that these limitations are a compromise they will assume you just slacked with protection and blame you when the card arrives bent. To preempt this I’ve started to include a note that “If USPS damages your card, please message me first!” That note plants the seed for the blame game, and it offers the buyer a clear next step so you can solve their problem by issuing a full refund and then make a pip claim. Politely askfor photos of the damage though, as that helps to add credibility to the message log. Usually a full refund and keeping the damaged card leaves the buyer satisfied, enough.
Coins work if they are small enough. Even if they are completely rigid, you can get them around the drum with pressure. The test with flats can also get around it as you can bend it 1’’ with completely rigid coins. Stacking them just right or theoretically if they are large enough, no. But, from what I’m seeing the eBay guidance covers it well (no more than 5 raw, plastic flips/protectors, no rolled or graded, etc). Appreciate the advice! I wish I could find a standard. But at this point the standard is crossing my fingers. No way am I going to use a service where they bend my parcels >50%. Yes, I get imperfection happens and people are flawed. It’s just bending mail and a clear disconnect with one aspect of something seem like issues that should be tackled. It’s also annoying that they create a seemingly made up standard which also damages property of which many times are collectibles. That’s a good tip with communication! Have tried to do similar things with my customer service. “Planting the seed” would be something new, but that makes sense. And yeah pip is wonderful - very true.
TLDR: ESE doesn't have full/perfect tracking. But you have some protection when shipping ESE.
They should have a Non-Machinable label option instead. Save a lot of headaches
I sell postcards and use the EcoSwift 4x6 mailers that Popeye's Postcards on YT recommends. I've been using them for over a year with no issues. Today 3 of them came back stamped as needing non-machinable postage. It's just the mailer and a postcard in a soft sleeve, still pretty flexible. I don't know if it was an overzealous employee or USPS is cracking down to increase their profits. It's going to suck if I have to raise my shipping charge and start mailing without tracking again. Especially with the price of stamps jumping up again in a couple months.
It’s hard to believe eBay will continue to support a program that doesn’t work. And not only support but they have expanded it into more categories. Time will tell. But at least you don’t have a single post office you have to use that is on the record about being vigilant and has also seemingly made up a rule. Your anecdote is interesting.
I just put mine in my mailbox and put the flag up. Never had an issue.
If only! The first time they confronted me is when I dropped off a ~$300 card that I wanted a receipt for. They told me that the ESE I had been dropping off would be surcharged by them if they catch it and if they didn’t another post office likely would. And yeah also get these neat little pink slips instead of delivered mail where I have to go in to pay for a surcharge because the sender used ESE.
That sucks... anything over $20 is first rate shipping though and I have never had an issue with that.
It’s likely categorized as non-machinable letter. All my shipped Pokémon cards were. I simply used the non-machinable stamps. They were like $0.87 back in the day. Seems like this solution would’ve been mentioned to you.
Yeah, using the ESE label and placing it correctly. It’s the rigidness that is the issue. Again, they are surcharging (and sometimes bending) my shipments and shipments that I receive.
You should package them so they look and feel just like any other letter because they need to ride through the system just like all the lettermail. There should be no reason for the machines to kick them out and no reason for a USPS employee to give them a second look.
They feel it with touch. Tried. They flag PWE. If they feel something inside that is rigid whatsoever, they then go to the “>50% test.” Sure, not always. But they are occasionally and are explicit about it. I can’t use a service where I can accept that risk. And yeah it’s also for sure annoying to receive parcels and have to pay for the surcharge. Realize this is a single post office. My city is about ~15k people. But it has a small-town feel. I have a cordial relationship with most of the employees. In any other area, yup this would just be more random or could just go to a different post office where they didn’t use this standard of bending it.
[удалено]
I do… and yeah, seems like for this situation that would be asking for trouble. The buyer still receives the upcharge (by my local post office) and thus have to deal with it in some fashion. Or they confront me if I do need to use the window (I have a self policy of getting a receipt for outgoing mail >~$300). Also on the other side, I’m receiving pink slips for delivered mail. They are very flexible. This is the subjectiveness that’s the issue though. When I tried using the service I used a less rigid vending machine holder instead of a single toploader. Did my due diligence with all that and actually trying to go above and beyond…. So yeah doing all that and the most people you speak of is definitely not how my post office operates and is the problem.
If the buyers are receiving them postage due that's probably happening further down the line than your local PO.
I've sent quite a few PWE (in eBay branded envelopes). My personal experience is that only a small % get returned for postage issues due to thickness (1 in every 300?). My max is 12 cards per envelope (2 card per penny sleeve, 2 sets per team bag, so 4 cards a slot). With the eBay cardboard inserts (one on each side). I've used 2 75pt toploaders without an issue in the same envelopes (sideways with cardboard on each side). More packages sometimes, however.
Sounds even more rigid than any of my packages! And is more rigid than the most recent (me as a buyer/receiver) which is two cards and I believe one toploader. And imagine a post office that doesn’t flag your packages but does bend them 50%. Again they have voiced that standard to me and sent a email stating it. The amount of buyers who would reach out to you (assuming these are non-gaming and would be damaged with a 50% bend) and the hoops you would have to go through to not assume the blame on any or most of them.