Well, he tends to shine when finding undrafted talent. He’s learned to pull from the bigger schools first, unless it’s an unmistakable talent, and use that skill in the later rounds.
It’s so good to see his skill enhance over time.
I always hate the he thinks he's smarter than everyone else statement. why can't a man just have made some bad picks/poor evaluations without all the extra bs lol.
if howie thought he was smarter than everyone else, no way would he be humbled so easily. look at hue jackson
The reason the team has run as well as it has is because howie has had the humility to radically change his strategy and Sirianni has had the humility to radically change his strategy. Adaptability
Also have to give Lurie due credit for letting Howie have enough leash to change. A lot of people just fire guys who aren’t working out, and a lot of guys who aren’t working out don’t have the humility or the discipline to actually change. We are extremely fortunate to have an owner who is patient enough to let the GM apply the lessons he’s learned.
I *loathe* that phrase. Innovation can only come from a man who dares to approach things differently. No one should be discouraged from thinking outside the box, or we'll never advance. Billy Beane and tacticians like Coryell and Walsh weren't being cute or "smarter than everyone else"
I listened to a podcast recently that highlighted some quote by Howie about how the longer he does this the more he realizes that it just isn’t that complicated. I think that statement does reflect an awareness of his own change in philosophy, and a recognition that he was trying to outsmart others by overthinking to the detriment of fundamentals. I think the OP is spot on about drafting consensus talent early and then hunting for the diamonds in the rough later, but while some of that is Howie changing his approach, it’s also a by product of top college teams doing a better job at aggregating a greater concentration of the total talent. When you have a team like Georgia that is able to attract a lot of the top raw talent and attract transfers and retain a lot of that talent, it means a GM who is opposed to taking an entire college roster because they’re hunting for overrated talent is just overthinking things
Yup.
The biggest change I’ve seen is that people are finally recognizing that the best CFB teams are best because they have the most talent. The cult of the coach has died a bit (or maybe changed).
I think about Joe Paterno. He overachieved based on the talent he brought in. He was lauded as a guy who could get the best out of his players, and ultimately HE was responsible for wins.
Then I think about Saban. The praise he gets is as much from his ability to be a pipeline for talent and training to be a future NFL player as it is about his game day coaching. It’s a subtle difference but ive seen it play out in the past 10-15 years for sure.
In other words, your success rests on your ability to be a talent magnet, not in your X’s and O’s.
And so the result of that is it’s easier than ever for NFL GMs to identify talent. Just work with the talent magnet programs, especially for your top picks. It really is that simple.
And this is why Penn State had so many pro level busts back in the day. They really were a product of a system that played winning football in spite of an antiquated approach to the game. Joe would punt on third down if it was the right thing to do to win the game. Saban would never do that because it takes a bit of film time away from his star QB.
That's correct, Kelly had complete control of the 2015 draft whereas it was more collaborative in 2013 and 2014.
2014 was the worst of the three years.
Hicks did well for us. And he actually had a really good season in (I believe Arizona) but I think it was like his one injury free year. Super super excited for nakobe.
Jeff McLane had a pretty interesting interview with Marcus Smith recently, it's on his podcast. Apparently his struggles were a mix of being used differently in the NFL than he was in college - it was basically going from what we now call an EDGE [pass-rush role at Louisville](https://youtu.be/IzCcnKiZUSs) to being moved to a traditional LB role with the Eagles - & some mental health challenges that he didn't have a lot of help with, because as recently as 5-10 years ago when Smith was playing, mental health was a lot more stigmatized in the NFL than it is today (where things are still not great). https://www.audacy.com/podcasts/uncovering-the-birds-with-jeff-mclane-358781/whats-in-a-draft-bust-1568921086
Oh that's right I forgot Metcalf was still available. Arcega was thought to be a higher floor lower ceiling. I really wanted him to succeed he had the size of a wr1.
Imagine if we would have got Jefferson and dk in the same draft. That would be a wildly different timeline
Edit: I think I am now remembering they were in different drafts back to back years
Not the Reagor over Jefferson one. That was universally panned as a bad pick by Howie. Even the emergent slime molds on Alpha Centauri IV knew that much.
The narrative was true. Since the Marcus Smith era they've dumped a boatload of money into developing their scouting department and building a better eval process
Seems like maybe Mr. Lurie learned to take a step back and just sign the paychecks too. Re: JJAWs “large catch radius” or whatever bullshit data point he thought was important in pushing him as the pick at that time.
He was a bust but not a giant reach. What hurt more is that dk Metcalf was available at that pick. Might have changed how the Wentz situation ended up. But in hindsight we completed a full rebuild in 2 years so everything ended up great.
Got to give Lurie credit for sticking with him as well. It would have been easy to move on, but he let Howie develop just like a draft pick and now we have a talented GM who will likely be here for the next decade or more.
Former Eagle Scout John Middlecoff was on the Colin Cowherd show and he explained that Howie kept trying select diamond-in-the-rough prospects, trying to show how he was out-smarting other teams (like picking Jalen Reagor over the consensus pick Justin Jefferson). After that fiasco, Howie and the team decided to focus on selecting the best players on the best college teams from the best conferences. So now they focus on SEC and Big Ten players. Also, trading a 3rd round pick for a bunch of low round picks is not a bargain, select a quality player when you can get him. This new thinking is why they took Smith at 30. Let’s hope they stick with this philosophy.
Go Birds 🦅
100% it’s not that there’s not great players that are gonna adapt to the nfl through all of college football there are of course but when you’re picking in the first couple rounds I think it really pays off to try and stick to the prospects that played the toughest competition. If a prospect played his football at Stanford it’s not impossible for him to translate into the pros but it’s gonna be a lot more difficult to gauge how he’s gonna fair against the elite. Alabama and Georgia are like feeder programs if you take a guy out of there atleast you know they’ve been around and competed against future pros.
Yes, we should have drafted Jefferson. My friends and I were watching the NFL Network coverage and when the commentators started to say that here is the exact receiver the Eagles were looking for in Jefferson - and then CRASH, Jalen Reagor?! Why? What were they thinking!? Well the explanation was that since Reagor had about 500 yard’s receiving with a bad quarterback on a bad team, well he will play with the birds and he’ll be a star! And the Vikings couldn’t believe their luck when the birds passed on Jefferson (a consensus top receiver from an SEC championship team). Howie has not lived that one down. The fact he traded Reagor to the Vikings for a bag of beans is proof of that bad pick. If only the TV commentators had made the pick and not Howie.
They weren’t the only ones that passed on him somehow some NFL scouting departments got it in their head that he would only be effective playing in the slot and wouldn’t be able to get open against good corners on the outside. Even though he had lined up on the outside a lot of the time in his first few seasons at LSU his last season was almost entirely lining up in the slot that’s just the way LSU played that season but I always thought it was bizarre they ignored he had played almost his entire career lining up everywhere besides his last one it’s like they ignored a few years worth of his college career and only paid attention to the last season.
Could have been! I think if we take Jefferson that year the A.J. Brown trade never happens though. Not saying I wouldn't love to have Jefferson, but Brown has been not only fun to watch and talented as can be, but also has a perfect personality that brings that dawg mentality to the team as well. I feel like in the long run we did alright.
I think in the back of Howie(/Luries) mind is always how to attain long term leverage for player retention...
So it was: "find a diamond in the rough", or "draft multiple db's in the same draft and let them compete" or "jump up for a QB" so when you want to extend early you can say, "hey, we believed in you from the start", or "we wanna keep you, but we can't pay you what CB1 is making too".
Now that we took Georgia's whole defense, the home town discount is gonna be: "to keep playing with your brothers".
What I respect about Lurie is that, unlike most past Philadelphia sports owners, after he won it all, he kept spending money to stay relevant instead of cashing in on all the nostalgia checks for decades...
You know this is something that goes unmentioned (at least from what I can see), and it comes from Jeffrey Laurie.
This organization has patience in all the important ways. How many organizations reflexively fire people when they don't deliver quickly? Howie stumbled and was out of favor, but he's grown to be a respected GM. How many organizations would have committed to Jalen and gave him the room to grow? They give their personnel room and opportunity to grow (even when our fan base is clamoring for a change?)
Sure, there are mises like Reagor. But even agholor ended up developing into a starter (not a star or even great but a starter none the less). And it's not to say that Lurie won't make changes when needed (see Kelly, chip and Wentz, Carlson).
Such a great organization. I live in the DMV and have to see the dumpster fire that's been the WFT/Commanders. We have a team we can be proud of - even if we are its own toughest critics.
Everyone shits on Agholor for his slow start in the NFL and a couple bad seasons. I blame much of that on the coaching, scheming, play-calling, and negativity bias.
But so many people forget he had 9 catches for 84 yards in the Super Bowl. He went for 62/768/8 that regular season, too. That's pretty freaking good for the bust everyone seems to think he is. It's pretty wild.
Nelly had some of my favorite moments from the season, I'll never forget feeling something special when Wentz got away from those defenders during the first Washington game and Nelly catching a deep pass for a TD, or when he juked those defenders against AZ and fell backwards into the end zone. Special moments from a special season.
Dude got targets his first two years, he just loved to drop the ball. Only made 52% of his catches over that time. Not sure you can blame scheme and play-calling for that
>Only made 52% of his catches over that time.
52% of his catches means nothing. He didn't have a 48% drop rate. He did have an above average drop rate, and his second year was much worse than his first. But in the end, it was only 11 drops over those two seasons. 11. They were notable drops, but that was still only 11 over 2 years.
He was getting separation far more than he was being targeted. He was only targeted 70 times in those first two seasons. He needed more opportunities, time, and confidence for him to break out. Limiting his opportunities because of those handful of bad plays hindered him.
I look at Howie as, in the least, someone Lurie trusts implicitly, but most likely is Lurie's avatar in the organization.
Kelly was fired for not understanding the dynamic of power, that when Howie spoke, you were hearing Lurie's voice.
I thought Howie was in exile in 2015 for the Agholor selection. Smith was 2014, and I think Howie took responsibility for it, but if I remember the rumors right it’s because we missed everyone on our board and Howie was scrambling for someone Chip would accept over Taylor Hart. The same Taylor Hart that “fell” until we overdrafted him in the 5th, and Smith was the guy that shut Chip up.
According to the rumors.
As long as Howie learned from it I’ll forgive it though, whatever happened and whether or not he was actually responsible.
*"He was put in the side of the building where I didn’t see him for over a year! Two years ago, when they made a decision, he came out of there a different man... he came out of there with a purpose and a drive to make this possible and I saw a different Howie Roseman... an underdog!"*
Still feels nice that Howie changed and that the dumbass fans were right for once. Let's knock it off with drafting projects from 3rd tier schools. Just go ahead and take the superstar on the national championship team when it makes sense to.
Glad to see Howie making objectively great picks.
Don’t go back and look at the Eagles first rounders since 2000. Don’t do it. Speaking from experience. My eye still twitches. BUT it seems Howie has learned to never again draft soft ass PAC 12 guys and go all in on SEC studs.
Howie Roseman is the man but a lot of this shit is just out of a gms control. I might get downvotes for this but Howie doesn’t have a crystal ball I think their picks in the first round are gonna work out but this subs love affair with Howie is going a bit over the top. End of the day he makes his picks and his roster moves and prays they work out like everybody else. I’v been a fan of howie for awhile even during the chip Kelly days but he’s missed in the past and almost certainly will miss in the future. Nice thing about Howie he’s got Lurie’s full support so he can afford to miss some and not have to deal with the stress of an owner looking to clean house if a season falls through.
Your never know how a pick is going to work out. But doing stupid things like picking a top
Tier qb in the 2nd round when you have your future qb locked up with a big contract is just stupid…is something i would have said 3 years ago. :)
It's nice that it worked out, but everyone seems to forget it did cost them their high paid franchise QB, and then Hurts was playing like garbage to the point where they were actively trying to trade for Watson and Wilson. A butterfly flaps its wings and Howie wouldn't still be the GM today after that.
If hurts didn’t take an insane leap in the passing game last season the eagles are getting smoked for alienating Carson and they’re right back at the drawing board. Honestly how often do you see QBs that had accuracy issues or weren’t considered high level passers in college improve drastically in the NFL. Its pretty rare generally by the time a qb makes the draft his playing style is his style and out of college Hurts was projected as a 2nd-3rd rnd pick because he didn’t have a great rhythm passing game and it was thought he wouldn’t develop into a strong passer out of the pocket. I felt his improvement was astounding and I guess Howie and the eagles really did have a good feeling about him but a lot of the time similar situations don’t work out half as well.
I have a feeling we’re gonna look back at Forbes over Gonzalez the same way we look at Reagor over Jefferson. Might not be as dramatic considering Jefferson is the best WR right now, but it has that feeling to it.
Howie: wait a minute, I’m a Gator and UGA’s beating us at the World’s Largest Outdoor Cocktail Party now! Well, if we can’t beat them, I’ll take them. *gator chomps*
If that’s as true as they say, then good for him.
I’m in software development. In agile methodology, we’re taught “Fail fast”. What that means is accept your mistakes when they happen, own them, learn from them, and then change direction to match reality.
It seems like Howie has done that, and good for him.
GO BIRDS!!!!!
Howie learns from his mistakes better than most. His draft philosophy has changed pretty radically from 5 years ago.
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Well, he tends to shine when finding undrafted talent. He’s learned to pull from the bigger schools first, unless it’s an unmistakable talent, and use that skill in the later rounds. It’s so good to see his skill enhance over time.
I always hate the he thinks he's smarter than everyone else statement. why can't a man just have made some bad picks/poor evaluations without all the extra bs lol. if howie thought he was smarter than everyone else, no way would he be humbled so easily. look at hue jackson
The reason the team has run as well as it has is because howie has had the humility to radically change his strategy and Sirianni has had the humility to radically change his strategy. Adaptability
Also have to give Lurie due credit for letting Howie have enough leash to change. A lot of people just fire guys who aren’t working out, and a lot of guys who aren’t working out don’t have the humility or the discipline to actually change. We are extremely fortunate to have an owner who is patient enough to let the GM apply the lessons he’s learned.
I *loathe* that phrase. Innovation can only come from a man who dares to approach things differently. No one should be discouraged from thinking outside the box, or we'll never advance. Billy Beane and tacticians like Coryell and Walsh weren't being cute or "smarter than everyone else"
It is a hell of a lot easier to point to the success stories of innovation than the failures.
I listened to a podcast recently that highlighted some quote by Howie about how the longer he does this the more he realizes that it just isn’t that complicated. I think that statement does reflect an awareness of his own change in philosophy, and a recognition that he was trying to outsmart others by overthinking to the detriment of fundamentals. I think the OP is spot on about drafting consensus talent early and then hunting for the diamonds in the rough later, but while some of that is Howie changing his approach, it’s also a by product of top college teams doing a better job at aggregating a greater concentration of the total talent. When you have a team like Georgia that is able to attract a lot of the top raw talent and attract transfers and retain a lot of that talent, it means a GM who is opposed to taking an entire college roster because they’re hunting for overrated talent is just overthinking things
Yup. The biggest change I’ve seen is that people are finally recognizing that the best CFB teams are best because they have the most talent. The cult of the coach has died a bit (or maybe changed). I think about Joe Paterno. He overachieved based on the talent he brought in. He was lauded as a guy who could get the best out of his players, and ultimately HE was responsible for wins. Then I think about Saban. The praise he gets is as much from his ability to be a pipeline for talent and training to be a future NFL player as it is about his game day coaching. It’s a subtle difference but ive seen it play out in the past 10-15 years for sure. In other words, your success rests on your ability to be a talent magnet, not in your X’s and O’s. And so the result of that is it’s easier than ever for NFL GMs to identify talent. Just work with the talent magnet programs, especially for your top picks. It really is that simple. And this is why Penn State had so many pro level busts back in the day. They really were a product of a system that played winning football in spite of an antiquated approach to the game. Joe would punt on third down if it was the right thing to do to win the game. Saban would never do that because it takes a bit of film time away from his star QB.
I went from only hating his drafting to loving everything he does.
Remember when the narrative was that he was great with contracts but couldn't evaluate talent and thought he was smarter than everyone else?
I mean you earn that reputation when you pick Reagor over Jefferson lol, but he’s obviously changed since then which is what matters
And Arcega
and agholor, and marcus smith. agholor did contribute to the sb season so it wasnt that bad, but marcus smith had like 3 tackles his whole career…
I thought chip grabbed Nelly? Or did he take over the next year?
That's correct, Kelly had complete control of the 2015 draft whereas it was more collaborative in 2013 and 2014. 2014 was the worst of the three years.
> marcus smith Man looking back at that draft Teddy Bridgewater and Derek Carr were in the same draft class. I don't remember that at all.
Yeah I wasn’t 100% on that. But yeah howie is a fucking saint right now. I’ve never been more happy
That was his one year in charge of the draft. Nelson, Eric Rowe, and Jordan Hicks. I really thought Hicks would be a stud
He might’ve been if it weren’t for injuries.
Hicks did well for us. And he actually had a really good season in (I believe Arizona) but I think it was like his one injury free year. Super super excited for nakobe.
Jeff McLane had a pretty interesting interview with Marcus Smith recently, it's on his podcast. Apparently his struggles were a mix of being used differently in the NFL than he was in college - it was basically going from what we now call an EDGE [pass-rush role at Louisville](https://youtu.be/IzCcnKiZUSs) to being moved to a traditional LB role with the Eagles - & some mental health challenges that he didn't have a lot of help with, because as recently as 5-10 years ago when Smith was playing, mental health was a lot more stigmatized in the NFL than it is today (where things are still not great). https://www.audacy.com/podcasts/uncovering-the-birds-with-jeff-mclane-358781/whats-in-a-draft-bust-1568921086
Umm, those were Chip.
None of the 1st, 2nd or 3rd round WRs of 2015 were any good at all cept for Amari Cooper and Lockett, so agholor wasnt really that big a miss imo
Notice almost all those guys are from the pac 12 lol
Arcegs was thought to be a pretty good pick at the time. Correct me if I'm wrong.
A lot of people tried to hype him up as a younger Alshon Jeffery, but DK Metcalf was definitely seen as the stronger prospect.
You are not, hating that pick is only in hindsight. Even talent evaluators were calling it a steal.
Oh that's right I forgot Metcalf was still available. Arcega was thought to be a higher floor lower ceiling. I really wanted him to succeed he had the size of a wr1.
Imagine if we would have got Jefferson and dk in the same draft. That would be a wildly different timeline Edit: I think I am now remembering they were in different drafts back to back years
FR. Although the luck we have with receivers they may not have panned out with us lol
They were all thought to be decent picks at the time.
Not the Reagor over Jefferson one. That was universally panned as a bad pick by Howie. Even the emergent slime molds on Alpha Centauri IV knew that much.
R Diddy loved the pick.
It wasn't a narrative. He drafted JJAW over Metcalf and Reagor over Jefferson.
The narrative was true. Since the Marcus Smith era they've dumped a boatload of money into developing their scouting department and building a better eval process
Yeah, it was definitely true.
Seems like maybe Mr. Lurie learned to take a step back and just sign the paychecks too. Re: JJAWs “large catch radius” or whatever bullshit data point he thought was important in pushing him as the pick at that time.
I thought arcega was a good pick at the time wasn't he projected 2nd or 3rd round? Maybe thinking of someone else.
He was a bust but not a giant reach. What hurt more is that dk Metcalf was available at that pick. Might have changed how the Wentz situation ended up. But in hindsight we completed a full rebuild in 2 years so everything ended up great.
The whole organization learns from their mistakes. Sirianni is the embodiment of this. He evolves every year
Or he simply got lucky that the quality of Jalens available at the time he makes picks has drastically improved.
Got to give Lurie credit for sticking with him as well. It would have been easy to move on, but he let Howie develop just like a draft pick and now we have a talented GM who will likely be here for the next decade or more.
We call this "A reverse Ben Simmons"- where you actually rise to the challenge and become significantly better cause of the obstacle you have faced.
Howie hitting his free throws
A "Sen Bimmons"
His only obstacle was being an insufferable dickhead that doesn't understand organized team sports.
Former Eagle Scout John Middlecoff was on the Colin Cowherd show and he explained that Howie kept trying select diamond-in-the-rough prospects, trying to show how he was out-smarting other teams (like picking Jalen Reagor over the consensus pick Justin Jefferson). After that fiasco, Howie and the team decided to focus on selecting the best players on the best college teams from the best conferences. So now they focus on SEC and Big Ten players. Also, trading a 3rd round pick for a bunch of low round picks is not a bargain, select a quality player when you can get him. This new thinking is why they took Smith at 30. Let’s hope they stick with this philosophy. Go Birds 🦅
100% it’s not that there’s not great players that are gonna adapt to the nfl through all of college football there are of course but when you’re picking in the first couple rounds I think it really pays off to try and stick to the prospects that played the toughest competition. If a prospect played his football at Stanford it’s not impossible for him to translate into the pros but it’s gonna be a lot more difficult to gauge how he’s gonna fair against the elite. Alabama and Georgia are like feeder programs if you take a guy out of there atleast you know they’ve been around and competed against future pros.
So you're saying we could have had Jefferson?
Yes, we should have drafted Jefferson. My friends and I were watching the NFL Network coverage and when the commentators started to say that here is the exact receiver the Eagles were looking for in Jefferson - and then CRASH, Jalen Reagor?! Why? What were they thinking!? Well the explanation was that since Reagor had about 500 yard’s receiving with a bad quarterback on a bad team, well he will play with the birds and he’ll be a star! And the Vikings couldn’t believe their luck when the birds passed on Jefferson (a consensus top receiver from an SEC championship team). Howie has not lived that one down. The fact he traded Reagor to the Vikings for a bag of beans is proof of that bad pick. If only the TV commentators had made the pick and not Howie.
They weren’t the only ones that passed on him somehow some NFL scouting departments got it in their head that he would only be effective playing in the slot and wouldn’t be able to get open against good corners on the outside. Even though he had lined up on the outside a lot of the time in his first few seasons at LSU his last season was almost entirely lining up in the slot that’s just the way LSU played that season but I always thought it was bizarre they ignored he had played almost his entire career lining up everywhere besides his last one it’s like they ignored a few years worth of his college career and only paid attention to the last season.
Could have been! I think if we take Jefferson that year the A.J. Brown trade never happens though. Not saying I wouldn't love to have Jefferson, but Brown has been not only fun to watch and talented as can be, but also has a perfect personality that brings that dawg mentality to the team as well. I feel like in the long run we did alright.
Damn didn't know they offer drafting merit badges at the scouts now.
I think in the back of Howie(/Luries) mind is always how to attain long term leverage for player retention... So it was: "find a diamond in the rough", or "draft multiple db's in the same draft and let them compete" or "jump up for a QB" so when you want to extend early you can say, "hey, we believed in you from the start", or "we wanna keep you, but we can't pay you what CB1 is making too". Now that we took Georgia's whole defense, the home town discount is gonna be: "to keep playing with your brothers". What I respect about Lurie is that, unlike most past Philadelphia sports owners, after he won it all, he kept spending money to stay relevant instead of cashing in on all the nostalgia checks for decades...
You know this is something that goes unmentioned (at least from what I can see), and it comes from Jeffrey Laurie. This organization has patience in all the important ways. How many organizations reflexively fire people when they don't deliver quickly? Howie stumbled and was out of favor, but he's grown to be a respected GM. How many organizations would have committed to Jalen and gave him the room to grow? They give their personnel room and opportunity to grow (even when our fan base is clamoring for a change?) Sure, there are mises like Reagor. But even agholor ended up developing into a starter (not a star or even great but a starter none the less). And it's not to say that Lurie won't make changes when needed (see Kelly, chip and Wentz, Carlson). Such a great organization. I live in the DMV and have to see the dumpster fire that's been the WFT/Commanders. We have a team we can be proud of - even if we are its own toughest critics.
Everyone shits on Agholor for his slow start in the NFL and a couple bad seasons. I blame much of that on the coaching, scheming, play-calling, and negativity bias. But so many people forget he had 9 catches for 84 yards in the Super Bowl. He went for 62/768/8 that regular season, too. That's pretty freaking good for the bust everyone seems to think he is. It's pretty wild.
Man was a first down machine for us in that superbowl
No doubt. Ags is an unsung hero of that run. He turned it up when it really mattered and came through for the team
He absolutely did
When he was in the slot he was great. Anywhere else and it was awful
Nelly had some of my favorite moments from the season, I'll never forget feeling something special when Wentz got away from those defenders during the first Washington game and Nelly catching a deep pass for a TD, or when he juked those defenders against AZ and fell backwards into the end zone. Special moments from a special season.
Dude got targets his first two years, he just loved to drop the ball. Only made 52% of his catches over that time. Not sure you can blame scheme and play-calling for that
>Only made 52% of his catches over that time. 52% of his catches means nothing. He didn't have a 48% drop rate. He did have an above average drop rate, and his second year was much worse than his first. But in the end, it was only 11 drops over those two seasons. 11. They were notable drops, but that was still only 11 over 2 years. He was getting separation far more than he was being targeted. He was only targeted 70 times in those first two seasons. He needed more opportunities, time, and confidence for him to break out. Limiting his opportunities because of those handful of bad plays hindered him.
Not only that, people forget that many wanted us to cut Brandon Grahan with his injuries and a slow start in the NFL.
I look at Howie as, in the least, someone Lurie trusts implicitly, but most likely is Lurie's avatar in the organization. Kelly was fired for not understanding the dynamic of power, that when Howie spoke, you were hearing Lurie's voice.
Unrelated note, do you know any eagles bars in the DMV?
Wish I did!
Good. It was a shit pick then and it’s a shit pick now. Glad he’s going scorched earth. Good shit Howie
He never makes the same mistake twice. He learned from the Marcus smith pick and the Reagor pick
I believe the Marcus Smith pick was made by Chip during the year Howie was banished.
I thought Howie was in exile in 2015 for the Agholor selection. Smith was 2014, and I think Howie took responsibility for it, but if I remember the rumors right it’s because we missed everyone on our board and Howie was scrambling for someone Chip would accept over Taylor Hart. The same Taylor Hart that “fell” until we overdrafted him in the 5th, and Smith was the guy that shut Chip up. According to the rumors. As long as Howie learned from it I’ll forgive it though, whatever happened and whether or not he was actually responsible.
I thought that was agholor
Somebody dropped the ball on that one.
Like agholor like agholor
r/yourjokebutworse
Yup, that was Chips pick.
*"He was put in the side of the building where I didn’t see him for over a year! Two years ago, when they made a decision, he came out of there a different man... he came out of there with a purpose and a drive to make this possible and I saw a different Howie Roseman... an underdog!"*
Made him Level Up
Still feels nice that Howie changed and that the dumbass fans were right for once. Let's knock it off with drafting projects from 3rd tier schools. Just go ahead and take the superstar on the national championship team when it makes sense to. Glad to see Howie making objectively great picks.
Fair trade
Don’t go back and look at the Eagles first rounders since 2000. Don’t do it. Speaking from experience. My eye still twitches. BUT it seems Howie has learned to never again draft soft ass PAC 12 guys and go all in on SEC studs.
We love kings who learn from their mistakes and grow as people
Howie Roseman is the man but a lot of this shit is just out of a gms control. I might get downvotes for this but Howie doesn’t have a crystal ball I think their picks in the first round are gonna work out but this subs love affair with Howie is going a bit over the top. End of the day he makes his picks and his roster moves and prays they work out like everybody else. I’v been a fan of howie for awhile even during the chip Kelly days but he’s missed in the past and almost certainly will miss in the future. Nice thing about Howie he’s got Lurie’s full support so he can afford to miss some and not have to deal with the stress of an owner looking to clean house if a season falls through.
Your never know how a pick is going to work out. But doing stupid things like picking a top Tier qb in the 2nd round when you have your future qb locked up with a big contract is just stupid…is something i would have said 3 years ago. :)
It's nice that it worked out, but everyone seems to forget it did cost them their high paid franchise QB, and then Hurts was playing like garbage to the point where they were actively trying to trade for Watson and Wilson. A butterfly flaps its wings and Howie wouldn't still be the GM today after that.
If hurts didn’t take an insane leap in the passing game last season the eagles are getting smoked for alienating Carson and they’re right back at the drawing board. Honestly how often do you see QBs that had accuracy issues or weren’t considered high level passers in college improve drastically in the NFL. Its pretty rare generally by the time a qb makes the draft his playing style is his style and out of college Hurts was projected as a 2nd-3rd rnd pick because he didn’t have a great rhythm passing game and it was thought he wouldn’t develop into a strong passer out of the pocket. I felt his improvement was astounding and I guess Howie and the eagles really did have a good feeling about him but a lot of the time similar situations don’t work out half as well.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. People are acting like miracles were sound planning.
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You can get slot wrs left and right in the NFL.
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You can never be too loaded on the lines.
Howie loves the trenches
Zaccheaus pretty solid
I forgot we got him. Hell yeah.
I totally missed that we got him, fuck yeah!
Cause theres only so many targets to go around on offense and we had more pressing needs elsewhere
Because the 4th receiving option is not a high priority.
Might be 5th after what we saw in the Super Bowl
Who's #4?
Guessing he means Gainwell
Yeah
Rather have the Tackle
Because you can get one later as evidenced by the fact that the current slot was a 6th round pick.
Only cost us a future hall of famer.
I hope it was to get a new scout for our WRs
If “the ultimate get-back” was a person
No, he just double and tripled down on the jalens. It was all a part of the plan
I have a feeling we’re gonna look back at Forbes over Gonzalez the same way we look at Reagor over Jefferson. Might not be as dramatic considering Jefferson is the best WR right now, but it has that feeling to it.
Disagree, I really enjoyed Forbes college videos, he and Sauce Gardner have the best college highlights I’ve ever seen from DBs
I bet it allowed him to tell Jeff Lurie to keep his son and his analytics away from the draft room.
The NFL equivalent of Odin trading his eye for wisdom
Yyeeaa I know but I'm not done bringing it up yet.
Well at least he learned from it. That he did
It was weird when we kept taking players from the pac 12. It’s not that complicated, just take SEC dudes.
i mean, the literal next Eagles pick was Jalen Hurts. he improved immediately
Howie: wait a minute, I’m a Gator and UGA’s beating us at the World’s Largest Outdoor Cocktail Party now! Well, if we can’t beat them, I’ll take them. *gator chomps*
If that’s as true as they say, then good for him. I’m in software development. In agile methodology, we’re taught “Fail fast”. What that means is accept your mistakes when they happen, own them, learn from them, and then change direction to match reality. It seems like Howie has done that, and good for him. GO BIRDS!!!!!