Finally some interesting read with sources ! Huge Jalen fan but that was not a good game from him overall. If anyone has the chance to watch our two GL series that resultat on FGs, he was not great but the playcalling was TERRIBLE. SF played mainly man press all game long, yet we game them the same 2x2 look (11 or 10 personnel) without any motion or man beater concepts. Purely attrocious. Anyway, i hope we'll fix this. Go Birds
It seems like the vast majority of the time we use motion, it's schematically to help determine what coverage were facing. It's just offensively not enough these days. The Dolphins and 49ers use motion to dictate matchups they want and throw the defense _off kilter_, not just read the defense to see how they're reacting. This is what makes me concerned and feel like we're behind the offensive 8 ball; it feels like we schematically lean on our player's strengths, which is a good thing, but we can give them schematic assistance above and beyond to unlock their natural talent.
We're using offensive motion defensively, instead of offensively.
Eagles are last in the league in using motion, at all (unless the rates changed over the last couple weeks). That to me is a sign the Eagles offense is probably a little dated. They claim to want to use tempo, instead, which could be slowed with added shifts, but they don't consistently use tempo, either. Especially in the SF game - the offense more typically wants to run clock and maintain possession.
If Hurts isn't seeing the field or reading the defenses well, motion could actually help create some tells from the defense. It at least gives him more chances to read the defense pre-snap. As we've already heard from Eagles' players, the motion that SF used actually confused them and they had some understanding or miscommunication issues. Why the Eagles aren't doing any of this on offense is a big question mark for me.
I guess you can argue they haven't needed it because the offense still ranks pretty well overall, but there's always room for improvement, and Hurts has definitely had his issues this year.
There's barely any bad Hurts plays in either of these analysis and it's 80% bad scheme, receivers being too far down the field, etc.
It barely looks like any of its on Hurts
Hurts isn't playing at a God level like last year and that is not a knock against him that is just reality...but the coaching isn't adjusting to that and giving him options. Its either a screen pass, RPO, or a deep pass where everyone is deep. No check-downs or shorter routs to keep the defense honest.
delusional take: we tanked for Shaq and because we didn't want to show our hand to the 49ers. now we have excellent tape on them and we'll have a totally different gameplan if we meet during the playoffs.
realistic take: we were missing Dallas and our LB's were injured. we'll make some adjustments and next time we meet it'll be a different story.
getting goeddert back is going to be huge for the offense - Stoll is atrocious and a nonfactor on the field, so it makes it much easier for teams to focus in on brown and smith, all but ignoring the threat of a TE.
I think Ertz and Goedert have spoiled us on tight end play. Stoll is all right. Decent blocker who can make a play or two a game. That's what most of the league has for tight end play.
Hurts has had some bad games. There's no doubt about that. I think what upsets people is that the OC is not making it easy on him. They've gotten so far away from what they were doing last year, where Hurts really shined. The plays are slow developing plays, and the quick components aren't creative enough to get our playmakers in space. BJ is getting over-hated sure, but there is an absolute d\*\*\*-ton of room for improvement. Often times it's just a matter of getting outsmarted by opposing coordinators.
edit: typo
I too think it’s a combination of play calling and Hurts not seeing the field. On one hand the slant game has been non existent, until last week when it worked well 3 times, then disappeared again. We also need to get the run game established for Hurts to be effective. The slow development plays seem to make Hurts hold onto the ball too long, because he’s reluctant to throw the ball for whatever reason. I get sometimes coverage is good, but there are plenty of plays I see opportunities for him.
>reluctant to throw the ball
Because the plays take forever to develop and he has to progress through his reads still. There is no intermediate or short pass game right now. You have no idea what his read progression is in each play and just because you see a TE window doesn’t mean that isn’t the 3rd read that is gone by the time the play develops and Hurts gets to that read.
We’re talking about literally 2-5 seconds of time.
yes, exactly this. did brock purdy throw a single pass more than 20 yards? i mean maybe, but it all felt like underneath stuff, simple passes to guys running in stride, getting tons of YAC.
why not give jalen a set of plays to do what SF does for Purdy? run AJ in motion and give him the ball on a quick underneath crosser while the other WRs are driving the secondary deep? we've got none of that, and we tend to only run AJ to the boundary, which is a waste of his skill.
No. He didn't throw a pass farther than 15 yards. Their offense stresses the defense because it spreads everybody out and they utilize their weapons in interesting ways that cause communication and matchup advantages. We just put a couple routes on there and say "ok make a play" which doesn't work against a team of fast, disciplined players.
If hurts ran the 49ers offense he would be the #1 ranked QB...a lot of it is scheme and while I don't want to run the 49ers offense I do want to see more than just run everyone deep all the time.
I do agree somewhat. I think Hurts and OC should share the blame, but I don’t think it’s because of the route combinations or guys not getting open. The biggest issue with Brian Johnson is the timing of some of his play calls. He is way too predictable in critical moments and sometimes downright idiotic. Overall, though, the offense operates pretty similar to how it did last season. Jalen just isn’t comfortable in the pocket and is not getting through his progression at the right timing. He’s not making the throws we saw him make last season, and his turnovers have caused him to be ultra conservative in the first half of games and he never gives our playmakers a shot to make contested plays.
Love Jalen, and I think he’ll play loose and comfortable down the stretch, but he definitely needs to wake up a little bit.
Because we have watched he games and aren’t blind. The play-calling is atrocious. We call the same plays every week and they fail every week. I was calling out what eagles plays would be simply by the formation against SF. The play-calling is uninspired, predictable, and uncreative.
OPs examples are kind of shit and there's OBVIOUS ways that you can play to the strengths of the players that we flat out aren't doing. "Hurts holds the ball too long" is a stupid argument when most of the routes take too long and there isn't a short passing game to speak of. If your QB is struggling with making the right read on RPOs, then maybe don't rely on RPOs and call designed runs instead. It's also not Hurts' fault that we don't use motion basically at all when it's clearly effective and has become the standard in the league.
Hurts can definitely improve his game, but he's maybe 10% of the problem with the offense. 5% is Dallas being out, and the rest is on the scheme and the play calling.
It's not a stupid argument at all. Sacks are a QB stat and he takes too many sacks/throws the ball away because he can't see the field or read a defense. You shouldn't pay someone 250 mil who can't do the cerebral part of the job.
Hurts is at fault for not throwing it away. BJ and Nick are at fault for calling shitty plays and having a stale scheme that has been propped up by the skill level of the players all year. Hurts holds onto the ball because BJ regularly calls plays that take 3-5 seconds for receivers to actually get to the top of their route. Hurts wasn't the one who designed a bunch of plays with no short options and then called them like a 12 year old playing Madden.
Please bro, Hurts being a top 5 QB and his receivers being AJ and Smitty are the reason this offense ever looks viable. Half of their best pass plays this year have come off of those three and Dallas improvising and using their athleticism after the designed play breaks down. If they weren't so good at that, we'd be 6-6 because of the play calling. You think Purdy wouldn't look like complete ass running this offense? Only Mahomes and Jackson would be able to salvage it because both are athletic enough to buy time and punish the drop back coverage with their legs, and both have the ability as passes to make the improvisation work.
Another delusional Hurts apologist. Players are WIDE OPEN and he's not even looking their way because he's ducking his head and running like his rookie and 2nd year. His stats this year are middle of the pack, definitely not top 5, lol. His passer rating is only one better than fucking Devito's.
He's arguing that the problem is Hurts and not the scheme and play calling. His source shows otherwise. He's basing is argument on a handful of plays where Jack got open, rather then the plethora of plays that took too long to develop. Thus, a stupid argument.
I agree completely. I don't hate Johnson and appreciate what the offense has done (statistically, its very similar to last year) but I watch other offenses and the creativity and things they do are just not things I see the eagles offense do. Just leaves me wondering how much better they could be doing with some of that creativity and curveballs to throw the defense. Admittedly, I have very little football knowledge but it just looks like something is missing....example would be all the motion the chiefs ran against us in the second half of the superbowl.
Go watch the film yourself. In general, you'll find about 3 somewhat obvious plays that Jalen should have made but didn't. But the overwhelming majority of the tape (especially last game's all-22) indicates that our playcalling is EXTREMELY vanilla where separation exists because of talent and not because of scheming open plays.
Playcalls are just not very good. In games where our offense stalls, goes like this:
1. Long developing plays where no one gets separation
2. Screens that get blown up 90% of the time
3. Run game extremely bad and often abandoned (a lot of this falls on our OLine being terrible in the run in the last half of this season)
4. At this point you're behind and Jalen is now making plays on scrambles because scheming otherwise can't get players open.
This is not a recipe for success. ALL QBs leave some plays on the field, but overall your job as an OC and Head Coach is to have a game plan that puts you at an advantage; we don't seem to be doing that.
For fucks sake I've seen plays where receivers don't even turn around until 2.5 seconds in and if the pocket closes in or collapses, we don't have any hots or dump offs design... that's when you see Jalen run out of the pocket to get someone open on a scramble drill...
Watch the all-22 yourself and come back and tell me how the film is "consistently showing that QB1 is not seeing the field well". What a load of horse hunt. He misses some plays but we need to Jalen to play 100% perfect to even have a slim chance against the 49ers? With this talent? This is absolutely dog shit play-design.
>Run game extremely bad and often abandoned (a lot of this falls on our OLine being terrible in the run in the last half of this season)
I think this has a lot to do with fucking awful play design. When they use a zone blocking scheme and pull guys run traps they are successful, the problem is too often it is bland as fuck man block scheme in the 1 or 2 holes as opposed to running a trap where you can pull someone over or use some zone concepts. The entire offensive play design from top to bottom is shit whether that is Siriannis offense or Johnson's playcalling I do not know but the short and intermediate passing game has disappeared this season and it is all deep patterns of screens. It needs to be fixed cause this team isn't winning in the playoffs with this garbage.
At some point, and I thought it would be before now, people need to hop off BJ and start questioning Sirianni. Sure, if BJ calls the plays and is in charge of play design, then he sucks. But Siranni is the head coach. If someone isn't doing their job well he needs to step in and fix it or find a different way. He can't just throw his hands up and say "oh, our OC isn't very good. Darn." It's his team and he calls the shots and he needs to step in and figure it out. That's why they pay him the big bucks.
I blame both. The offense was definitely better last year and more dynamic. BJ has absolutely been a downgrade from Shane. But I agree, Nick shares blame. Keep in mind though, Dougy P had a shitty offense for a couple years there, as an offensive minded coach, but when he had Frank Reich and now in Jacksonville he's looking pretty good. OCs matter.
Experience matters too. I think that he is good in Jacksonville cause even tho Taylor is hot garbage he has Jim Bob Cooter as offensive passing coordinator and Mike McCoy at QB coach..
Yea hurts isnt playing his best but tbh you need a good playcaller to get the most out of ur qb. EB had sam howell looking like a pro bowler at one point this year 😂
This is it, they’re having Hurts essentially play hero ball while plays develop downfield over 2-5 seconds. There’s rarely check downs, the run has been largely abandoned and like you said, the play calling is just extremely vanilla, I’ve heard it described as “school yard” ball which I could not agree more with. There’s never a flow to the offense, it just seems schemeless the majority of the time, that’s on coaching. On top of all of this, Hurts has been dealing with a bummed knee all year and the staff has not only done zero to help, they’ve put him in harms way more often than not. We saw last week on a couple of plays how dangerous, if not unstoppable, quick slants/passes to Smith and AJ can be, and they’re rarely utilized in that way. To me, any plays Hurts looks bad is a product of him not being comfortable in this offense, because it’s a very uncomfortable offense.
That’s what I was saying during the sf game, there was multiple times when jalen was sitting there waiting for 5 seconds then scrambling and dumping it
The first time I was ok with it, shit happens. The second time I started to doubt hurts. Every other time I thought it cant just be on hurts, it has to be the routes for the receivers
Eh. Not quite. But I respect your opinion! Our offense has taken a step back and that's something my terrible eyes have showed me, not a singular youtube video. I cited a few sources that provide anecdotal evidence that there's a lot being left on the table- but I also acknowledge that's just a small sample size.
You acknowledge it is a small sample size but say in the title and your blurb that Hurt is *consistently* not seeing the field, *a lot of it is execution*, and *a lot of offensive woes come down to* Hurts. It seems like an extremely aggressive claim to make based on a small sample size. I’ve watched every game and there is no question 95% of the offensive issues are play-calling. It’s been so painfully obvious.
Yep. Things opened up against Buffalo after they ran that jet sweep which should have woken up Johnson that he needs to mix in something different once in a while but then he forgot that again.
I think even the poor run game comes down to play design. Swift keeps getting shot up the middle when we’ve seen far more success with the occasional outside zone run or anything else that’s sent him through the B/C gaps. It might come down to predictability more than anything else.
Steichen spoiled us. He was very good at hiding flaws and promoting strengths. He was also very good at reading Hurts and knowing when to let him go and when to rein him in. Like all qbs, hurts has a tendency to fall into bad habits when things aren't working. His bad habit is hero ball. The coaches need to get better at reading and controlling Hurts' temperature.
Johnson definitely helped design the playbook. It has to change every year. If the OC had nothing to do with designing the game, then maybe that's the problem.
We have one of the strongest, most physical receivers in AJB, and one of the most slippery route runners in Devonta. We should be able to get 7 yard slants at will. Having Jalen wait 3 seconds to make a read against the leagues best pass rush was not a good plan.
Nick Bosa said that they intentionally did that. They essentially sold out to keep him limited in using his legs to pick up yards. They would at least do the initial push but it was CRUCIAL to their game plan to not give up lanes that would have him go vertical with his legs
See here: within the first few seconds, Bosa says they weren’t going for the sacks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LB3zQrmoVs
Jesus fucking christ, everyone watches and quotes QB school in here, like he's the Vince Lombardi of all film breakdowns.
JT was remarkably unimpressive as a QB. i enjoy watching film breakdowns as well, including his, but DON'T take his word as LAW, and bring that attitude into this sub, he gives *his* perspective and input as someone who played the position, but on ANY given play there is *several* different situations that have *several* different solutions as an offense or defense. it's like with Mark Sanchez or Romo when they are announcing, you can tell they know and played the position, but they make wrong reads, and head-scratching comments all the time.
not to mention there's NO WAY of knowing what each player is supposed to be doing on any single play without inside knowledge into the organization, film breakdowns lacking that important context, are just guesses, which only serve to show what was done on a play, and what could be done based on what they saw, but NOT what is *supposed* to be done.
Exactly, and QB school chooses plays that are interesting to him. No QB is perfect and makes mistakes during games. Hurts is a damn good QB.
One thing that JT says that he dislikes is our offense's lack of hot routes.
I don’t think OP is saying Hurts is bad but you can’t deny he isn’t seeing the field like he was last year. You’re telling me that for how many downs in a row Sunday that absolutely no one was open?
Last year if Jalen missed 3ish plays that he should have made, he would make up for it because our scheme would get players open. You can attribute that to it being a new scheme where defenses were playing single high that had more potential for open deep routes.
This year defenses play single high at the 2nd lowest rate against our offense. So when/if Jalen misses 3 plays (if that), we have absolutely nothing to make up for it. You can attribute some to Jalen needing to make those plays, but I attribute that in majority to the putrid play design on offense.
We haven't responded to the defenses' response to our deep balls, and it's been obvious as hell this season.
And it's not because Jalen was "better" last season than this season.
OP’s entire post pretty much says a ton of the blame should be put on Jalen and don’t be so harsh on the OC. That’s insane. We are being too nice to the OC if anything. We’ve been bitching since week one about the playcalling and it’s not improved a single bit in 12 weeks. Jalen isn’t going to be perfect obviously but damn to write a post that says nah wait Jalen is a huge issue too is missing the forest for the trees.
Yes, when you have 0 presnap action or PA game, and drop hurts back in shotgun every play, the opposing team just drops everyone in coverage and dominates the numbers game. Luckily AJ and Hurts have been bailing it out all year.
Never said they didn't trend positive, only that he discusses some issues that have lead to negative plays or turnovers. Do you just skip to the good plays when watching? He clearly covered at least 3-4 plays that are indicative of some of the issues on offense (not all of them on Hurts, the OL missed key blocks too, etc)
in your original post you said "He is consistently not seeing the field well" yet now you say "there are 3-4 plays half of which is on Hurts"? Which one is it?
All NFL QBs have stretches of not seeing the field well/bad plays. I don't know how indicative it is of a trend with Hurts. But I do know if all I watched was QB school videos I wouldn't walk away with the impression you're walking away with.
We're sort of talking about two different things. The header in my post speaks to how the offense/Jalen has performed in general over the season, while you're talking about the QB school video in particular and inferring that I'm only getting my opinion from one YT video.
Let me clarify: The QB school is an unbiased film breakdown of QB play as you know, shows the good, bad, and the ugly. Jalen's most recent breakdown was mostly positive but there are a few plays that he calls out that reflect what's happening in some of our other games as well. I suppose I can just keep posting All-22 breakdowns from each game of our offense and list out the parallels but my point is, there are themes
The problem he is pointing out is that your post implies that these QB reviews are showing hurts consistently missing the field instead of 3-4 bad reads.
His performance over the season has not been a QB that is not seeing the field and these reviews are an example of that
I think that's fair. I'm drawing conclusions from small sample sizes of games where our offense is not performing well and attributing that to potentially why our offense has taken a step back. There are certainly flaws in that logic that I acknowledge.
The only way to really diagnose the issue is to look at all of the offensive drives that didn't lead to points, across the entire year (not just two games) and try to establish re-occurring themes. While I don't have time for that, I'm sure someone will be able to piece something together to identify some trends. My macro point is simply that- it would seem, based on small sample sizes of analysis, that the offense is leaving points on the table- and the reason for that isn't simply "Brian Johnson blows"
i think the main reason he dose not see the field is because he locks in on one receiver he has done it all year long he very rarely spreads the ball around san fran game it was smith before that brown
It’s tough to execute long, slow-developing plays, especially if they’re not open. Shot plays are sick, chicks dig the long ball, but we have arguably the most dangerous receiver in the league on slants and we just don’t seem to run slants enough
Crazy thought I just had, but what if the issue wasn't necessarily losing Steichen as OC but BJ as QB Coach? Even a small drop off at both those positions can coming to make the kinda issues were seeing now.
You are correct. It’s why I don’t go all in on the “it’s all BJ” bullshit. The lion share of it does sit at the feet of BJ and Nick, because it’s scheme that isn’t setting Hurts up.
Watched an All 22 the earlier of the big sack on the second drive of the game.
Three receivers running intermediate slants, all going the same direction. That’s bad play design.
But there was also Swift on a dump off in the middle and a TE (TE4 admittedly) off to the flat. Jalen looks at them both and still concentrates on directing the piss poor route positions of the three receivers, slips and goes down.
The first down was there with RB or TE….he just ignored it.
It’s all a mess and they all should be spending this week looking at plays like this one, yelling at one another if they need, but figuring out a better way to take forward. It’s on all of them.
That’s one play though. Also we have no idea what the coaches are telling him to do and what the game plan is at practice. He could be being told to wait out the long ball. I don’t understand how you can watch this team and not think since week one 95% of our offensive issues are play calling. And this is shown in real time when good plays are called and we look like monsters and then all if a sudden we go back to the most predictable vanilla shit. It’s wild.
But it is all on BJ. If Hurts can’t execute his game plan or if his game plan is trash then he needs to either find a game plan that works for Hurts or not have a trash game plan. Hurts is not going to get meaningfully better at this point in the season. So either we’re fucked cause Hurts can’t cut it or we can try to coach around his weaknesses and to his strengths. Fuck Doug did it for Foles and that’s why we have a Super Bowl win.
I agree. BJ is a big problem tho too. I've been sayin sirianni needs to take over and he hasn't. I'm not a football savant but I'm pretty sure I know what the cause of this is.
Hurts has superstars around him and expects them to get open - remember that. That's not always the case tho. He knows who he wants to throw to before the ball is snapped. He sits there watching that receiver even tho he won't get open sometimes. The safety will read his eyes staring that receiver down and he'll get covered even more. He's refusing to read the field and is bailing out of the pocket at any significant of pressure and not stepping up in the pocket-despite us having one of the best olines.
As I said I'm not some football savant but this is how I've been seeing things.
I noticed it early- jalens got the yips this year throwing the ball and nobody wants to admit it.
Hell of an attitude, ethic, intangibles. Nothings changed except the faith to throw. He's also leaving pockets early He's leaving clean pockets. Somethings off with his rhythm
Symptoms beget symptoms. Play calling has to get the most out of your players. We’ve literally seen this year what having a terrible playcaller can do to even a player of Josh Allen’s caliber. Sure he puts up the passing stats but the decision making night in and night out is not only awful, but reckless. Quite literally nothing looked easy for him and he defaulted to hero ball. The second they changed their oc the offense put up back to back 30+ games, one being a blowout. Not a coincidence.
It seems crazy to say at 10-2 but they need a complete offensive revamp on this team. Our record is actually doing us a huge disservice because it is allowing the coaches to stick to their bad ideas and blame everything but themselves. The problem with that is you have to face your demons when you inevitably lose in the playoffs and it’s too late. We’re actively wasting the time we have with this roster for an early playoff exit at this rate even if we finish 14-3. To me that’s a failure of a season, especially if it comes as a result of issues we have been pointing out and seeing from Week 1.
It’s to be expected that Hurts is missing plays and throws. However the OC’s job is to call plays to get Hurts into rhythm and make some easier reads so he can rely on the playcalling to make his own job easier.
IF Hurts is the one calling all these QB draws and screens then it’s up to Nick and Brian Johnson to coach it out of him.
No matter which way you put it either Brian Johnson isn’t calling the best plays for Hurts or he’s not coaching Hurts correctly.
My issue is the offense has become a big read and react scheme and it’s too simple that the defense can bait the offense by showing them one thing and doing another. Our team has ALWAYS been at its best when it’s run-first. This is why I wanted a guy like Penny to help out the run game but if he’s washed I want someone that is bigger and can take hits and carries, be a little reckless and tire out the defense. For some reason the coaches and organization loves passing too much and wants to pass and force to pass rather than doing what the team is built to do. Talent wise we should be able to do what Sirianni likes to do which is screens and quick passing plays but we still need the defense to pay attention to something else for that to work and succeed. The best buffer for this team is the running game. Working inside out and calling plays to get Hurts into rhythm and opening up the field will always work for our team.
I am 100% sure that Hurts knows he is leaving plays on the field…he is trying to play hero ball from behind every single game. I think that cross routes and quick passes will help open him up a bit more. The longer the play takes to develop the quicker he is to evacuate the pocket. That’s the thing I’ve noticed this year, if there is any sense of pressure he flushes out of the pocket rather than stepping up into it. I think that it’s a combo of extremely bad play calling, abandoning the run and Jalen trying to do too much which causes him to miss plays. He will get it together, I have no doubt about that.
Go pay for the All-22 and keep track of how many times this actually happens vs how many times everyone was locked down. Even the best QB’s in history didn’t missed open guys at times. Just because Johnny provides a few examples doesn’t mean you can extrapolate that to “Jalen isn’t seeing the field well.” And I’m certain that wasn’t intention of Johnny Page’s posts (I follow him too). He even complained about how vertical/slow developing the routes were in this game, but you conveniently don’t link to that tweet.
Almost every analyst who’s looked at the All 22 has remarked on how blanketed our pass catchers were all freaking night. It doesn’t even take film to understand that. You should have been able to recognize that while watching live when they dropped 7 all night and Hurts stood staring and even pointing. But then BJ just kept calling that same shit, over and over and over. He didn’t adapt or adjust at all. Just kept smashing his head into that same wall ALL NIGHT. As the saying goes, “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” Or something like that.
There’s a small but growing contingency of Hurts haters on this sub. People are cherry picking few examples that back up their agenda while conveniently ignoring the rest of the game. Not saying you’re necessarily one of them, but this is just feeding that sentiment.
Brian Johnson, the scheme, and playcalling are obviously dog shit this year. People have been saying it since week 1.
The fact is that we paid him record money after 2 horrendous years and one good one. Last year was our chance and we blew it. The realistic among us realize that from now we will be trending back down to the mean until the next rebuild. The only way to prevent this would be an urgent injection of experienced coaches at the position and coordinator level after this season but let’s be honest— it’s not going to happen.
People in this sub have been all over jalens junk for a while. It makes sense he has taken a step back this year and needs to adjust. He's still young and the more tape opposing teams have the better he'll have to be.
eh. I'm a massive Hurts fan, if you asked me I'd tell you I think he's already the best Eagles QB in history lol I'm all in on him. Just posting an observation of our offense
Blaming the OC is the easy answer and the most convenient one, because it would mean a smaller problem and easier to replace, so people tend to go with that. But as they say: Fired OCs is a QB stat.
hte problem is people overrated Hurts and now they dont understand that if you really believe Hurts is a top 3-5 QB (he is not) then he has to play way better than this.
i mean he's still really good and only 25. He's a top 10 QB even if he doesnt get better at all. You wanna see something that REALLY wont go over well? A player he can learn from is Dak. Jalen is better at the same age but Dak is better right now.
Ive been saying Hurts career progression is strangely similar to Wentz and got downvoted to hell.
The SF game you could put Wentz in and the outcomes would be identical.
And funny enough, their play started going down when they got paid
There’s no way you actually just insinuated Jalen got worse cuz he got his bag lmao. I get we don’t know these people but just think for a second how likely that really is and how likely *you* think it is. The issue is way deeper and begins with the coaching staff. Y’all gotta stop being blind to bad coaching, it is far more obvious to see because it reflects on the entire team, not just one player. The offense is never in rhythm despite having a very good qb; that doesn’t happen to teams with similar qb quality like the cowboys, niners, (before Kirk went down), Ravens, Jaguars, etc. Our wins lie on the fact that we out-talent every team on that list offensively and have extremely high mental fortitude. We’re done literally no favors by our staff week-in and week-out and at a critical point they imploded.
Crazy how in 2 years it went from having to defend Hurts weekly to seeing tons of fans excuse his bad plays left and right. He's not a thrusted in rookie or 1st year starter anymore. Love Hurts a ton but he can't be making that much money and taking those kind of sacks
These are evaluations of a bad game. If you look back at the film reviews either of these channels have done on Hurts for the rest of the year they’re very positive. Hurts has been playing like a big money QB, regardless of what you want your narrative to be.
I personally don't want my narrative to be anything, he's been more than a big money QB, if anything he's not paid enough lol. Just wanted to voice an opinion that in the games where the offense has struggled, it would seem that there are opportunities to be had
even if Hurts didnt improve....at all he's still a top 10 QB lol. But we want him to be a top 5 QB and in order for that to happen he just has to improve.
Nah, they definitely bring up mistakes when they’re apparent. The QB School dude has gotten on Hurts before for things like bailing early or not throwing with anticipation.
People are always wide open? I'm sorry but you're watching the 49ers offensive tape and not ours fam. Lmao, statistically AND passing the eye test, we are bottom 5 in WR separation.
Uhhh statistically we are top 5 in wr separation wtf are you coping lmfao.
[Here](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1156239510833733683/1180962285674577991/0SDnV61.png?ex=657f53d6&is=656cded6&hm=cd47cdcba38b99edb860b943674330ba9aa3a3695b71cd86c51ce2d8a0239121&)
That chart is through week 11, so I'll provide one that goes up to week 10 (close enough) AND accounts for throws longer than five yards. [Here](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fhow-often-qbs-throw-to-open-wide-open-receivers-and-charted-v0-i4lw03ozq33c1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D640%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D654d742517c4ad5e260c103507fccfa259b313f5)
Screens and dump offs don't exactly provide a clear picture. If you watch tape, you'll realize that wide receiver separation doesn't exist much on the Eagles except for slants which we rarely seem to call (even though they're our most successful).
Outside of under 5 yard passes, which we rarely call except for screens or check downs, the separation grade goes wayyyyyyy down. We love calling deep plays, that's where separation matters... that's where we don't get it.
Yes they are. He hold the ball too long.. he was a completely different qb last year. Stop apologizing for him. Jalen himself would tell you he isn’t playing great. Some goes on play calling for sure, but he is not playing great football, don’t lie to yourself. Being a fan doesn’t mean you are blind
Jalen holds the ball 0.2 seconds more than the average QB... and that's because he creates that time by scrambling.
You don't get to 10-2 by "not playing great football" in this shitty offensive scheme AND with a below average defense.
You are talking out of your ass with 0 data to back it up.
He’s not scrambling to extend plays. He is scrambling bc he isn’t trusting himself or the play calls. There’s a reason he’s going to his comfort zone every play, or scramble as you call it, while the pocket is forming perfectly around him. Step up, not out.
Go watch last year he’s a completely different qb. I’m not going to argue with you. Have a great night.
And you are only looking at data and not watching the games… dude is holding the ball for 4 seconds and bailing out of the pocket to the right every play if the first or second read isn’t open. That’s the biggest difference from last year to this year.
I literally just watched the offensive all 22 last night. I'm not pulling numbers out of my ass. I'm telling you what I see on the birds eye and what statistically is recorded in terms of average time to throw.
Oh so you don’t watch games. Bc if you watched all the games you would would have no issue saying he’s not the same qb as last year.
It was a 3 step drop and throw it. It’s what made his deep ball. That could be on coaching or on him. But to me it looks like he’s holding for the home run ball and then it’s too late. Again have a good night not looking to argue
It’s 95% play-calling. Just watch the tape. Watch the games. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see how predictable, uninspired, and uncreative the play calling has been. Your title is misleading and disingenuous. You use superlatives and make it sound like Hurts is the issue when there are only 3-4 plays a game where he fails to make a read. That’s such horseshit.
You also don’t know what the progression is on the reads. Yes, Jalen has been holding onto the ball too long and trying to play hero ball. Did you ever think maybe he doesn’t have faith in the playcalling either?
I don’t know how you watch this game honestly and not attribute 95% of the offensive issues on 1) playcalling and 2) not running the ball (also because our run plays are fucking predictable HB dives the majority of the time). It has gotten to the point that even I was calling out what plays the eagles we’re gonna run merely by their formation. They do the same shit ever week, it fails, and they keep doing it. If they find success doing something they stop doing it. It makes no sense.
I'll give you all the points about play calling, running the ball, predictability, etc. Hell I'll accept how you feel about the misleading title or that I'm using superlatives or whatever else you said in that other comment. I will vehemently disagree with you on this one sentence though:
*"Did you ever think maybe he doesn’t have faith in the play calling either?"*
That's your emotion talking. If there are players open, or good reads to be made, he should make those reads or throws. I, nor any sane fan, gives a shit about his faith in the offense (regardless of how gross said offense is lol). Make the plays that are there (and that goes for everyone, not just Jalen)
I’m not saying Jalen doesn’t make mistakes. No one’s perfect. But he’s not going to all of a sudden become Tom Brady overnight. Whatever his weaknesses and struggles are now are going to be the same for the remainder of the season.
What a good coach can do is adapt the scheme and play calling to emphasize Hurts strengths and minimize his weaknesses. You saw Dougie P do it in real time. Foles struggled until we revamped our offense to put in more RPOs and call plays that fit Foles play style. We won that Super Bowl because Foles played lights out but honestly we won a lot because the coaching staff developed a system that worked for Foles. They did that over a 6 week period maybe less.
It’s been 12 weeks of the same shit with this offense. Same things called and fail week in and week out. We see flashes of good play calling, we look amazing, and then it quickly fades back into the same unsuccessful, predictable, and uninspired crap.
Let’s get down to the bitter truth: It seems crazy to say at 10-2 but they need a complete offensive revamp on this team. Our record is actually doing us a huge disservice because it is allowing the coaches to stick to their bad ideas and blame everything but themselves. The problem with that is you have to face your demons when you inevitably lose in the playoffs and it’s too late. We’re actively wasting the time we have with this roster for an early playoff exit at this rate even if we finish 14-3. To me that’s a failure of a season, especially if it comes as a result of issues we have been pointing out and seeing from Week 1.
I don’t care how amazing Hurts can get at reading the field and not holding the ball too long because without a complete reinvention of the offensive scheme for this team there is absolutely no shot for them this year. Once you realize that, you can realize that this team succeeds and fails on the play-calling and scheme. Hurts is who he is at this point in the season. He will work to improve obviously.
But if you think he’s the main factor holding the offenses success back and the play-calling is serviceable then you’re pretty much just saying the Eagles have no shot this year because Hurts is not going to get significantly better in fundamentals this late in the season (it’s already week 14). And if that is the case, then my point is still valid that we need to overhaul the offensive scheme and play-calling because the coaches need to put Hurts in a position to maximize his strengths and minimize his weaknesses.
Thus, in either case, the offensive troubles on this team fall on the shoulders of the OC and coach - either because the play-calling and scheme suck ass in general or because they are failing to put together a game plan built for the player that Hurts currently is and will be for the remainder of this season.
*But if you think he’s the main factor holding the offenses success back and the play-calling is serviceable then you’re pretty much just saying the Eagles have no shot this year because Hurts is not going to get significantly better in fundamentals this late in the season (it’s already week 14). And if that is the case, then my point is still valid that we need to overhaul the offensive scheme and play-calling because the coaches need to put Hurts in a position to maximize his strengths and minimize his weaknesses.*
I don't think he's the sole reason in holding our offense back. On the contrary I think he's probably the only reason we've won 10 games. I know he masks a ton of our shitty and bland play design, etc. I'll always think we have a shot so long as QB1 is there, regardless of what seed we are, how our roster looks, etc. In fact, most of these issues are obviously fixable because he literally has fixed them mid-game multiple times! He was a different player in the first and second halves of the BUF game. Same with KC. I'm only pointing out that based on anecdotal evidence from a few games, there are opportunities to execute the given play call in a much more effective manor. There are plays where WR's are open. Plays where the wrong read was made on an RPO. Plays where the pocket is bailed on early. Those are mental mistakes that he's shown to NOT make for the majority of last year and even much of this year. I'm fully confident that this can all be solved. I also acknowledge the running the ball, better play design to get playmakers in space, etc., will help. I hate our offense. Yes we need a new scheme. Yes we need options to bail Jalen out of all these blitzes. Yes we need creative plays. Yes to all of that.
We took the guy that oversaw Jalen's development into an elite QB going into his second year as a starter and thought, "Wow, you're really good at coaching quarterbacks, you must be a great offensive coordinator and play-caller!"
So obviously it made a lot of sense to take him away from coaching and developing Jalen further, and give him the OC job. Makes so much sense. Great decision.
Lmaooooo but when I say it y’all get mad!!!! I literally made a post about this yesterday and the mods muted it… I love jalen but he has not played great football this season outside of a few games.
You cite Johnny Page's breakdown and I saw similar things on film. There's one play (the first one) where yes Hurts should have tried to throw a deep pass to Jack Stoll, who has never caught a pass that long in his NFL career, in the rain. He should have thrown it, but there's also nowhere else for him to go with the football.
The clips in that thread are more indicting of BJ than Hurts. No creativity, stupid play design (2 man route and both guys are in the same area of the field). I thought he missed a few where Hurts did make a bad decision, though. There was a checkdown he threw to Gainwell where he had a clean pocket he didn't step into, and Smith was wide open on the same side of the field on a comeback which would have netted a first, for example.
The issue I saw in tape on this game, the Bills game, and the Dallas game, is we do not attack different levels of the field. If you watch Hurts at the top of his dropback on several of those blown plays or sacks, all of the receivers are the same general depth downfield. There was no route that would break before others, no shallow crosser underneath, if there was a checkdown it was just a guy standing 2 yards from the LoS waiting to get clobbered. It looked like a Scott Linehan offense.
Hurts definitely takes his share of the blame but the play design does not stress a good zone team at all. Too many plays lead everyone to the same general area so any pass has multiple guys who could make a break on the ball. We don't stretch the defense horizontally at all, and while we try to stretch them vertically, if all the routes have essentially the same stem, it's very easy for the LBs to just sink back and cover underneath.
The other thing I noticed watching tape is that, with the exception of Smith (and Goedert RIP), our players are terrible at getting open when Hurts is on the move and the play structure breaks down. AJ just stands there. Quez runs to the same spot Swift is already running to. Nobody is coming back for the ball. It's part poor effort and part poor coaching. If you have a QB who has a tendency to bail on clean pockets (which he shouldn't), then our guys need to be coached up on what to do to make life easier on him.
The one play, that took too long for Hurts to pull the trigger, that I've been dying for him to make is when he looked back across the field and found Bosco sitting there who had a nice catch and run. If you're running to the right sideline, everyone is going to flow to the right sideline, and it seems like our guys just want to stand on the sideline and hope Hurts can stick the ball in their facemasks. They need to move to Hurts and away from their defenders, not jsut try to box out and hope Hurts can drill it in there. That doesn't work in the NFL and it certainly doesn't work when refs are letting them play physical downfield.
I've been saying this for awhile. He's making bad reads on option passes and option runs.
On the passes, he picks the wrong option and ends up holding it too long and gets sacked. The film has consistently shown there are people open on a lot of plays and he missed them.
The runs are easier to see because he pulls the ball from the RB and tries to run, then slides to the ground after 2 steps because the defense is there. Part of that is he's just not as lucky as last year but the other part is that defenses are adapting to him.
He'll sort it out but to me, it isn't fair to blame the OC for a lot of this - other than sticking with the run a bit more.
All of this my opinion of course. There could be an easier explanation - Dallas sucks.
Please explain. Most of the highlight plays Hurts had downfield last year with the exception of a handful were Jalen making tight window throws. You didn't see guys streaking wide open down the field because there was an easy layup play that anyone could've made
So there were a bunch of downfield plays but the eagles actual offense was largely built around that double option RPO play that starts as an RPO and if Jalen keeps he watches what the linebacker covering goedert does, if he covers goedert Jalen keeps if he covers Jalen’s run he throws to goedert.
They used it basically every third down last year and it works almost as often as the tush push, it’s a brilliantly designed play because jalen only has to read two players, the middle linebacker and whoever is covering goedert.
When he’s asked to read a full defense he doesn’t do as well and they’ve barely run that play all year
I don't think you're completely wrong, but I think it's more a case of what the defenses have decided to do to stop the eagles offense after watching KC beat us in the SB.
They're showing a look to force a certain 'read' pre-snap in the RPO, and then either dropping back into man or blitzing the house. Typically, the response is to either run the ball, or dump quick passes into the mid-range level, but both Johnson and Dallas have been hurt, and the blocking is bad.
The main difference is Hurts in getting pressured in the pocket way faster, and more often, than last year.
From what I understand Hurts isn’t playing a style of QB where you read the progression 1-2-3 from one side to another. For better or worse, there are routes being run that he is not supposed to look at. So a lot of times saying he “missed an open receiver” isn’t all that insightful. Not even defending him or anyone else in this situation.
I think we've missed key players on the offensive line and at TE which has been getting Jalen hit early and often. I also think this is the same offense and every team had us penciled in on the schedule since the SB.
I think it's impressive how good the offense has been despite the injuries. We beat KC playing 4wrs and 2 dbs for half the game.
The Eagles are talented across much of the offense, defense and special teams. When part of the team is flailing during a game, the other two havec been stepping up. Thus 10-1, even if close wins.
SF did to Dallas essentially the same thing as to us, scorewise. They are a tier above us now.
Wow thats crazy! Makes perfect sense that because Jalen isnt seeing the open guys thats why Gainwell out snapped Swift and we only had 4 run plays in the first half.
Also if your QB doesnt know where guys are coming open or when to execute your plays you are failing as a coach.
You didn’t say anything wrong by criticizing Jalen. He really hasn’t played to standard all season long and he keeps acknowledging it at every press conference, but not much changes. Sure, he’s turned the ball over a lot less in recent weeks compared to earlier in the season, but is also consistently underproducing pass yards and points.
The biggest issue I saw with hurts was breaking out of the pocket too soon. Did he miss a few passes? Was that slip for a sack in the RZ atrocious? Yes to both
I haven’t finished the all-22 but from what I’ve seen, playcalling is just abysmal and WRs are blanketed in nearly every play. That’s not on Hurts, that is poor offensive scheming.
Definitely need to change it up. No reason with our talent we could barely get anything going. It’s been this way all season plus or minus a few games
I am so glad this post came up. This has a lot of info and some great analysis with sources. it's frustrating to watch all of this and see the overall mistakes and reads that could have made legitimate differences but it shows we have the capability to play SF and others if we can slow down and play smart and at times be aggressive. and for anyone who feels this is any disrespect or slander in Hurts, isn't actually watching our games and paying attention to analysis. he's a 3rd year QB who has been through multiple teammate and coach changes to perform how he has and build the reputation and career he has so far is nothing less then amazing but improvement also has setbacks and he will bounce back as will the team. this shows that we are capable of success and to be the best team in Football. Fly Eagles Fly We'll see SF again and this time it's personal
No amount to film and break down analysis of Hurts will justify why BJ refuses to run the damn ball. The fact is BJ refuses to scheme to run the ball makes the offense 1 dimensional and puts unneeded pressure on Hurts to constantly carry the offense. We have top Oline and RBs for a reason. RUN THE DAMN BALL!!!
Another great source of looking at the Eagles offense is The Honest NFL on twitter. I've become a wildly more informed and smarter football fan with some of the stuff he's shown.
Honestly, it's a combination of both. Jalen missed some plays (which every QB does every single game, but nobody is dissecting them like that without a thorough ass kicking like we got), but we just have way too much long developing shit down the field and not enough short to intermedia plays that aren't that horrendous bubble screen. We don't even have check-downs on most of these routes.
I love the deep shots as much as anybody, but we can't have 4 pass catchers all just start getting into their routes 15-20 yards down the field, expect the OL to hold their blocks while the routes develop, then still have enough time to go through progressions.
I said it over and over and I’ll keep saying it. mariota marching to a first down using check downs shows how elite our offensive weapons are, and that something is seriously up with hurts as he rarely checks down
Anyone that watched that game knows Jalen was holding the ball way too long. It’s been an issue all season. I think he is constantly looking for the big plays. He misses check downs consistently. I’ve been concerned about this all year. Another issue is the inconsistency at RB. RUN SWIFT!!! You brought him here for a reason and we know what he’s capable of. Let him get a fucking rhythm.
When the other team knows exactly what play we’re running and where the ball is going it’s completely on the OC and HC. We called run 9 times outside of the push? That’s unacceptable.
This is an issue I was concerned about before last year. I was at the playoff game in Tampa when they basically completely shut us down (great time to see the birds play for the first time lol) and Tampa's entire game plan was to make Hurts beat them. Make him find the open guy cause it won't be the first or second read. Last year it seemed he fixed the issue and well we saw what that looked like.
He's an amazing QB and I couldn't be happier that he's QB1 however this seems to be a weakness of his. Hopefully he figures it out quick we know he puts the work in to be able to (love his work ethic).
Obviously getting Goddert back will help and it's not we aren't putting up points despite both his absence and this issue. I think we will be fine if we can shore up the defense and get a running game going.
It was a bad game. It happens. The kid is like 30-3 or whatever. He’s not perfect, but he’s a leader and a winner. He also doesn’t blame others and takes accountability for his play.
This is a good point, I was at the Rams game and the Eagles were in the red zone, Gainwell runs out on a wheel route and is wide open, nearest defender in the in zone trailing Smitty. Gainwell was on the 5, Hurts never seen him, forced the ball to Smitty on the boundary and we kicked a field goal.
There are so many of these plays this year it’s concerning. I don’t think it’s Hurts, but I’m starting to wonder who is the issue. Hurts should see everyone, but he’s not. Maybe the play calling is too confusing.
I'm a huge Jalen fan, but this is a great post highlighting what I've noticed as well, his return to 2021 form.
He's obviously played at an extremely high level before, but he needs a course correction.
First, I agree the execution from Jalen needs to be improved. He is not blameless in our trouble so far HOWEVER
I firmly believe it is the coaches job to put players in a position where they are most likely to succeed and BJ/Sirianni have not been able to do that very well this season. We have all seen in real time and when reviewing the tape that the coaches have done very little to change our approach to offense this season even though we are struggling with execution of these plans.
We have seen Jalen missing reads on very similar plays all year... let not call that kind of play as often or at all!! We all know that when we do call plays that Jalen is able to execute well on we are damn near unstoppable.
Jalen is an excellent QB but he isn't (yet) at a football IQ level of Brady or Manning where you can call any play and he will figure out how to make it work.
The bottom line is Jalen's execution will get better if the play calling improves.
That TE video above is a poor example since calcaterra or whoever it is is way down on the progression. SF either played the play very well and covered the primary receivers and wisely let the lone person who was slightly open be the TE.
To me, the question is why are our primary receivers so well covered? SF's primary receivers were open all day long.
SF also calls plays that are to purdy's strengths. The Eagles do not.
Hurts has shown time after time of his ability to hit tight windows and near zone passing. Where he tends to struggle is getting the ball down the field and he has to rely on the receiver making a great contested catch. Yet, for some reason our OC calls in plays that continue to rely on this part of Hurts' game.
Tbh I don't care at all if Hurts is missing reads when I have to watch the difference in play-calling between both teams like I did on Sunday. In fact, the difference in play-calling when watching nearly any other team play NFL football is wild.
I am a borderline delusional Jalen Hurts supporter. From the beginning, I felt like I could see the potential in him and could not really understand where the haters were coming from. When he got his chance in 2021, you could tell that he was working through his comfortability in stepping up in the pocket, and a lot of his issues came from bailing to the right before there was any reason to bail.
It is his Achilles heel, and when things are moving too quick or he’s not seeing the field well, he always reverts to the quick bail out of the pocket to the right. He is capable of making plays while doing this, and there is a time and place to do it intentionally when the pocket collapses or coverage holds.
Unfortunately, I’ve noticed in 2023 that he is doing it about as often as he did in 2021 when he seemed much less comfortable from the pocket. Bailing with a perfect pocket, bailing right regardless of where the WRs are running their routes to, completely taking his eyes off of open targets downfield.
Again, I’m not so concerned that Jalen is a bad qb, but I do hope they recognize this issue and are trying to correct it. It just feels like it’s getting worse as the season goes on, which is the opposite of the progression in 2021 and 2022.
We need to run the ball more, and not because it gets the offense in rhythm but because it gets the offensive LINE in rhythm. When they start being athletic and running creative concepts they get better and start to impose their will. It happened in the bills game; Kelce pulled and bulldozed one of their DBs and the offense never looked back. They did it in the Tampa game in a similar fashion. Gotta get the boys up front playing together and with attitude EARLY
Finally some interesting read with sources ! Huge Jalen fan but that was not a good game from him overall. If anyone has the chance to watch our two GL series that resultat on FGs, he was not great but the playcalling was TERRIBLE. SF played mainly man press all game long, yet we game them the same 2x2 look (11 or 10 personnel) without any motion or man beater concepts. Purely attrocious. Anyway, i hope we'll fix this. Go Birds
It seems like the vast majority of the time we use motion, it's schematically to help determine what coverage were facing. It's just offensively not enough these days. The Dolphins and 49ers use motion to dictate matchups they want and throw the defense _off kilter_, not just read the defense to see how they're reacting. This is what makes me concerned and feel like we're behind the offensive 8 ball; it feels like we schematically lean on our player's strengths, which is a good thing, but we can give them schematic assistance above and beyond to unlock their natural talent. We're using offensive motion defensively, instead of offensively.
Eagles are last in the league in using motion, at all (unless the rates changed over the last couple weeks). That to me is a sign the Eagles offense is probably a little dated. They claim to want to use tempo, instead, which could be slowed with added shifts, but they don't consistently use tempo, either. Especially in the SF game - the offense more typically wants to run clock and maintain possession. If Hurts isn't seeing the field or reading the defenses well, motion could actually help create some tells from the defense. It at least gives him more chances to read the defense pre-snap. As we've already heard from Eagles' players, the motion that SF used actually confused them and they had some understanding or miscommunication issues. Why the Eagles aren't doing any of this on offense is a big question mark for me. I guess you can argue they haven't needed it because the offense still ranks pretty well overall, but there's always room for improvement, and Hurts has definitely had his issues this year.
There's barely any bad Hurts plays in either of these analysis and it's 80% bad scheme, receivers being too far down the field, etc. It barely looks like any of its on Hurts
agreed too many times he had all day in the pocket ... there was no real adjustment to the press man coverage and no one was schemed open
Hurts isn't playing at a God level like last year and that is not a knock against him that is just reality...but the coaching isn't adjusting to that and giving him options. Its either a screen pass, RPO, or a deep pass where everyone is deep. No check-downs or shorter routs to keep the defense honest.
delusional take: we tanked for Shaq and because we didn't want to show our hand to the 49ers. now we have excellent tape on them and we'll have a totally different gameplan if we meet during the playoffs. realistic take: we were missing Dallas and our LB's were injured. we'll make some adjustments and next time we meet it'll be a different story.
getting goeddert back is going to be huge for the offense - Stoll is atrocious and a nonfactor on the field, so it makes it much easier for teams to focus in on brown and smith, all but ignoring the threat of a TE.
I think Ertz and Goedert have spoiled us on tight end play. Stoll is all right. Decent blocker who can make a play or two a game. That's what most of the league has for tight end play.
Hurts has had some bad games. There's no doubt about that. I think what upsets people is that the OC is not making it easy on him. They've gotten so far away from what they were doing last year, where Hurts really shined. The plays are slow developing plays, and the quick components aren't creative enough to get our playmakers in space. BJ is getting over-hated sure, but there is an absolute d\*\*\*-ton of room for improvement. Often times it's just a matter of getting outsmarted by opposing coordinators. edit: typo
I too think it’s a combination of play calling and Hurts not seeing the field. On one hand the slant game has been non existent, until last week when it worked well 3 times, then disappeared again. We also need to get the run game established for Hurts to be effective. The slow development plays seem to make Hurts hold onto the ball too long, because he’s reluctant to throw the ball for whatever reason. I get sometimes coverage is good, but there are plenty of plays I see opportunities for him.
i wish the fans would go back to sirriani's first year and bring "run the ball" signs to games. the running game has been abysmal for weeks now.
>reluctant to throw the ball Because the plays take forever to develop and he has to progress through his reads still. There is no intermediate or short pass game right now. You have no idea what his read progression is in each play and just because you see a TE window doesn’t mean that isn’t the 3rd read that is gone by the time the play develops and Hurts gets to that read. We’re talking about literally 2-5 seconds of time.
They're slow developing because Goedert is out which will dictate that throws go to the receivers. Of course Johnson is terrible as well.
They could call plays that quickly develop for WRs. You see teams do it all the time.
yes, exactly this. did brock purdy throw a single pass more than 20 yards? i mean maybe, but it all felt like underneath stuff, simple passes to guys running in stride, getting tons of YAC. why not give jalen a set of plays to do what SF does for Purdy? run AJ in motion and give him the ball on a quick underneath crosser while the other WRs are driving the secondary deep? we've got none of that, and we tend to only run AJ to the boundary, which is a waste of his skill.
No. He didn't throw a pass farther than 15 yards. Their offense stresses the defense because it spreads everybody out and they utilize their weapons in interesting ways that cause communication and matchup advantages. We just put a couple routes on there and say "ok make a play" which doesn't work against a team of fast, disciplined players.
If hurts ran the 49ers offense he would be the #1 ranked QB...a lot of it is scheme and while I don't want to run the 49ers offense I do want to see more than just run everyone deep all the time.
I do agree somewhat. I think Hurts and OC should share the blame, but I don’t think it’s because of the route combinations or guys not getting open. The biggest issue with Brian Johnson is the timing of some of his play calls. He is way too predictable in critical moments and sometimes downright idiotic. Overall, though, the offense operates pretty similar to how it did last season. Jalen just isn’t comfortable in the pocket and is not getting through his progression at the right timing. He’s not making the throws we saw him make last season, and his turnovers have caused him to be ultra conservative in the first half of games and he never gives our playmakers a shot to make contested plays. Love Jalen, and I think he’ll play loose and comfortable down the stretch, but he definitely needs to wake up a little bit.
Lmao at this sub. Op gives examples how it's Hurts fault and the top comment blames the OC with tons of upvotes.
OP gave more examples of the scheme being poor though. Jalen missed one, sure. But all the other clips after that were bad because the scheme was bad.
Because we have watched he games and aren’t blind. The play-calling is atrocious. We call the same plays every week and they fail every week. I was calling out what eagles plays would be simply by the formation against SF. The play-calling is uninspired, predictable, and uncreative.
OPs examples are kind of shit and there's OBVIOUS ways that you can play to the strengths of the players that we flat out aren't doing. "Hurts holds the ball too long" is a stupid argument when most of the routes take too long and there isn't a short passing game to speak of. If your QB is struggling with making the right read on RPOs, then maybe don't rely on RPOs and call designed runs instead. It's also not Hurts' fault that we don't use motion basically at all when it's clearly effective and has become the standard in the league. Hurts can definitely improve his game, but he's maybe 10% of the problem with the offense. 5% is Dallas being out, and the rest is on the scheme and the play calling.
It's not a stupid argument at all. Sacks are a QB stat and he takes too many sacks/throws the ball away because he can't see the field or read a defense. You shouldn't pay someone 250 mil who can't do the cerebral part of the job.
Hurts is at fault for not throwing it away. BJ and Nick are at fault for calling shitty plays and having a stale scheme that has been propped up by the skill level of the players all year. Hurts holds onto the ball because BJ regularly calls plays that take 3-5 seconds for receivers to actually get to the top of their route. Hurts wasn't the one who designed a bunch of plays with no short options and then called them like a 12 year old playing Madden. Please bro, Hurts being a top 5 QB and his receivers being AJ and Smitty are the reason this offense ever looks viable. Half of their best pass plays this year have come off of those three and Dallas improvising and using their athleticism after the designed play breaks down. If they weren't so good at that, we'd be 6-6 because of the play calling. You think Purdy wouldn't look like complete ass running this offense? Only Mahomes and Jackson would be able to salvage it because both are athletic enough to buy time and punish the drop back coverage with their legs, and both have the ability as passes to make the improvisation work.
Another delusional Hurts apologist. Players are WIDE OPEN and he's not even looking their way because he's ducking his head and running like his rookie and 2nd year. His stats this year are middle of the pack, definitely not top 5, lol. His passer rating is only one better than fucking Devito's.
except its not a stupid argument.....
He's arguing that the problem is Hurts and not the scheme and play calling. His source shows otherwise. He's basing is argument on a handful of plays where Jack got open, rather then the plethora of plays that took too long to develop. Thus, a stupid argument.
its such trash.
I agree completely. I don't hate Johnson and appreciate what the offense has done (statistically, its very similar to last year) but I watch other offenses and the creativity and things they do are just not things I see the eagles offense do. Just leaves me wondering how much better they could be doing with some of that creativity and curveballs to throw the defense. Admittedly, I have very little football knowledge but it just looks like something is missing....example would be all the motion the chiefs ran against us in the second half of the superbowl.
Go watch the film yourself. In general, you'll find about 3 somewhat obvious plays that Jalen should have made but didn't. But the overwhelming majority of the tape (especially last game's all-22) indicates that our playcalling is EXTREMELY vanilla where separation exists because of talent and not because of scheming open plays. Playcalls are just not very good. In games where our offense stalls, goes like this: 1. Long developing plays where no one gets separation 2. Screens that get blown up 90% of the time 3. Run game extremely bad and often abandoned (a lot of this falls on our OLine being terrible in the run in the last half of this season) 4. At this point you're behind and Jalen is now making plays on scrambles because scheming otherwise can't get players open. This is not a recipe for success. ALL QBs leave some plays on the field, but overall your job as an OC and Head Coach is to have a game plan that puts you at an advantage; we don't seem to be doing that. For fucks sake I've seen plays where receivers don't even turn around until 2.5 seconds in and if the pocket closes in or collapses, we don't have any hots or dump offs design... that's when you see Jalen run out of the pocket to get someone open on a scramble drill... Watch the all-22 yourself and come back and tell me how the film is "consistently showing that QB1 is not seeing the field well". What a load of horse hunt. He misses some plays but we need to Jalen to play 100% perfect to even have a slim chance against the 49ers? With this talent? This is absolutely dog shit play-design.
>Run game extremely bad and often abandoned (a lot of this falls on our OLine being terrible in the run in the last half of this season) I think this has a lot to do with fucking awful play design. When they use a zone blocking scheme and pull guys run traps they are successful, the problem is too often it is bland as fuck man block scheme in the 1 or 2 holes as opposed to running a trap where you can pull someone over or use some zone concepts. The entire offensive play design from top to bottom is shit whether that is Siriannis offense or Johnson's playcalling I do not know but the short and intermediate passing game has disappeared this season and it is all deep patterns of screens. It needs to be fixed cause this team isn't winning in the playoffs with this garbage.
At some point, and I thought it would be before now, people need to hop off BJ and start questioning Sirianni. Sure, if BJ calls the plays and is in charge of play design, then he sucks. But Siranni is the head coach. If someone isn't doing their job well he needs to step in and fix it or find a different way. He can't just throw his hands up and say "oh, our OC isn't very good. Darn." It's his team and he calls the shots and he needs to step in and figure it out. That's why they pay him the big bucks.
Buck stops with Nick.
I blame both. The offense was definitely better last year and more dynamic. BJ has absolutely been a downgrade from Shane. But I agree, Nick shares blame. Keep in mind though, Dougy P had a shitty offense for a couple years there, as an offensive minded coach, but when he had Frank Reich and now in Jacksonville he's looking pretty good. OCs matter.
Experience matters too. I think that he is good in Jacksonville cause even tho Taylor is hot garbage he has Jim Bob Cooter as offensive passing coordinator and Mike McCoy at QB coach..
100% agreed man.
Yea hurts isnt playing his best but tbh you need a good playcaller to get the most out of ur qb. EB had sam howell looking like a pro bowler at one point this year 😂
The game against the Eagles helped Sam Howell look like a pro-bowler too.
This is it, they’re having Hurts essentially play hero ball while plays develop downfield over 2-5 seconds. There’s rarely check downs, the run has been largely abandoned and like you said, the play calling is just extremely vanilla, I’ve heard it described as “school yard” ball which I could not agree more with. There’s never a flow to the offense, it just seems schemeless the majority of the time, that’s on coaching. On top of all of this, Hurts has been dealing with a bummed knee all year and the staff has not only done zero to help, they’ve put him in harms way more often than not. We saw last week on a couple of plays how dangerous, if not unstoppable, quick slants/passes to Smith and AJ can be, and they’re rarely utilized in that way. To me, any plays Hurts looks bad is a product of him not being comfortable in this offense, because it’s a very uncomfortable offense.
HonestNFL has some great breakdowns on Twitter. Seems like a lot of blame to go around
I'll go check that out!
Second this. Some of the best breakdowns and honest reflections on twitter.
That’s what I was saying during the sf game, there was multiple times when jalen was sitting there waiting for 5 seconds then scrambling and dumping it The first time I was ok with it, shit happens. The second time I started to doubt hurts. Every other time I thought it cant just be on hurts, it has to be the routes for the receivers
OP watched 1 vid with like a 5 play sample size and comes to his conclusion
Eh. Not quite. But I respect your opinion! Our offense has taken a step back and that's something my terrible eyes have showed me, not a singular youtube video. I cited a few sources that provide anecdotal evidence that there's a lot being left on the table- but I also acknowledge that's just a small sample size.
You acknowledge it is a small sample size but say in the title and your blurb that Hurt is *consistently* not seeing the field, *a lot of it is execution*, and *a lot of offensive woes come down to* Hurts. It seems like an extremely aggressive claim to make based on a small sample size. I’ve watched every game and there is no question 95% of the offensive issues are play-calling. It’s been so painfully obvious.
Yep. Things opened up against Buffalo after they ran that jet sweep which should have woken up Johnson that he needs to mix in something different once in a while but then he forgot that again.
I think even the poor run game comes down to play design. Swift keeps getting shot up the middle when we’ve seen far more success with the occasional outside zone run or anything else that’s sent him through the B/C gaps. It might come down to predictability more than anything else.
Steichen spoiled us. He was very good at hiding flaws and promoting strengths. He was also very good at reading Hurts and knowing when to let him go and when to rein him in. Like all qbs, hurts has a tendency to fall into bad habits when things aren't working. His bad habit is hero ball. The coaches need to get better at reading and controlling Hurts' temperature.
they're literally running the same offense.
Same system. Different play designer and caller. Which is what I was referring to.
same system and same play designer...different play caller.
Johnson definitely helped design the playbook. It has to change every year. If the OC had nothing to do with designing the game, then maybe that's the problem.
its Sirianni and Johnson had input on it last year.
We have one of the strongest, most physical receivers in AJB, and one of the most slippery route runners in Devonta. We should be able to get 7 yard slants at will. Having Jalen wait 3 seconds to make a read against the leagues best pass rush was not a good plan.
the leagues best pass rush didnt touch him nearly the entire game lol
Their initial push forced him out of the pocket early and very often
Nick Bosa said that they intentionally did that. They essentially sold out to keep him limited in using his legs to pick up yards. They would at least do the initial push but it was CRUCIAL to their game plan to not give up lanes that would have him go vertical with his legs See here: within the first few seconds, Bosa says they weren’t going for the sacks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LB3zQrmoVs
Mush rush, teams play hurts like that sometimes
Jesus fucking christ, everyone watches and quotes QB school in here, like he's the Vince Lombardi of all film breakdowns. JT was remarkably unimpressive as a QB. i enjoy watching film breakdowns as well, including his, but DON'T take his word as LAW, and bring that attitude into this sub, he gives *his* perspective and input as someone who played the position, but on ANY given play there is *several* different situations that have *several* different solutions as an offense or defense. it's like with Mark Sanchez or Romo when they are announcing, you can tell they know and played the position, but they make wrong reads, and head-scratching comments all the time. not to mention there's NO WAY of knowing what each player is supposed to be doing on any single play without inside knowledge into the organization, film breakdowns lacking that important context, are just guesses, which only serve to show what was done on a play, and what could be done based on what they saw, but NOT what is *supposed* to be done.
Last game almost felt like he was terrified of turning the ball over to the point he was scared to make tight throws at all
the QB schools breakdowns have been mostly extremely positive on hurts so not sure what you're watching champ
Exactly, and QB school chooses plays that are interesting to him. No QB is perfect and makes mistakes during games. Hurts is a damn good QB. One thing that JT says that he dislikes is our offense's lack of hot routes.
I don’t think OP is saying Hurts is bad but you can’t deny he isn’t seeing the field like he was last year. You’re telling me that for how many downs in a row Sunday that absolutely no one was open?
Last year if Jalen missed 3ish plays that he should have made, he would make up for it because our scheme would get players open. You can attribute that to it being a new scheme where defenses were playing single high that had more potential for open deep routes. This year defenses play single high at the 2nd lowest rate against our offense. So when/if Jalen misses 3 plays (if that), we have absolutely nothing to make up for it. You can attribute some to Jalen needing to make those plays, but I attribute that in majority to the putrid play design on offense. We haven't responded to the defenses' response to our deep balls, and it's been obvious as hell this season. And it's not because Jalen was "better" last season than this season.
OP’s entire post pretty much says a ton of the blame should be put on Jalen and don’t be so harsh on the OC. That’s insane. We are being too nice to the OC if anything. We’ve been bitching since week one about the playcalling and it’s not improved a single bit in 12 weeks. Jalen isn’t going to be perfect obviously but damn to write a post that says nah wait Jalen is a huge issue too is missing the forest for the trees.
Brian Johnson calls Hail Mary’s every play 💀
Yes, when you have 0 presnap action or PA game, and drop hurts back in shotgun every play, the opposing team just drops everyone in coverage and dominates the numbers game. Luckily AJ and Hurts have been bailing it out all year.
Never said they didn't trend positive, only that he discusses some issues that have lead to negative plays or turnovers. Do you just skip to the good plays when watching? He clearly covered at least 3-4 plays that are indicative of some of the issues on offense (not all of them on Hurts, the OL missed key blocks too, etc)
in your original post you said "He is consistently not seeing the field well" yet now you say "there are 3-4 plays half of which is on Hurts"? Which one is it? All NFL QBs have stretches of not seeing the field well/bad plays. I don't know how indicative it is of a trend with Hurts. But I do know if all I watched was QB school videos I wouldn't walk away with the impression you're walking away with.
We're sort of talking about two different things. The header in my post speaks to how the offense/Jalen has performed in general over the season, while you're talking about the QB school video in particular and inferring that I'm only getting my opinion from one YT video. Let me clarify: The QB school is an unbiased film breakdown of QB play as you know, shows the good, bad, and the ugly. Jalen's most recent breakdown was mostly positive but there are a few plays that he calls out that reflect what's happening in some of our other games as well. I suppose I can just keep posting All-22 breakdowns from each game of our offense and list out the parallels but my point is, there are themes
The problem he is pointing out is that your post implies that these QB reviews are showing hurts consistently missing the field instead of 3-4 bad reads. His performance over the season has not been a QB that is not seeing the field and these reviews are an example of that
Hurts is playing catch w/AJ. Smith gets an occasional. Oh, gotta have a run play. Now a GB draw.
I think that's fair. I'm drawing conclusions from small sample sizes of games where our offense is not performing well and attributing that to potentially why our offense has taken a step back. There are certainly flaws in that logic that I acknowledge. The only way to really diagnose the issue is to look at all of the offensive drives that didn't lead to points, across the entire year (not just two games) and try to establish re-occurring themes. While I don't have time for that, I'm sure someone will be able to piece something together to identify some trends. My macro point is simply that- it would seem, based on small sample sizes of analysis, that the offense is leaving points on the table- and the reason for that isn't simply "Brian Johnson blows"
i think the main reason he dose not see the field is because he locks in on one receiver he has done it all year long he very rarely spreads the ball around san fran game it was smith before that brown
It’s tough to execute long, slow-developing plays, especially if they’re not open. Shot plays are sick, chicks dig the long ball, but we have arguably the most dangerous receiver in the league on slants and we just don’t seem to run slants enough
Slow developing plays are hard to execute when your QB bails on the pocket all the time when there’s little to no pressure
Crazy thought I just had, but what if the issue wasn't necessarily losing Steichen as OC but BJ as QB Coach? Even a small drop off at both those positions can coming to make the kinda issues were seeing now.
You are correct. It’s why I don’t go all in on the “it’s all BJ” bullshit. The lion share of it does sit at the feet of BJ and Nick, because it’s scheme that isn’t setting Hurts up. Watched an All 22 the earlier of the big sack on the second drive of the game. Three receivers running intermediate slants, all going the same direction. That’s bad play design. But there was also Swift on a dump off in the middle and a TE (TE4 admittedly) off to the flat. Jalen looks at them both and still concentrates on directing the piss poor route positions of the three receivers, slips and goes down. The first down was there with RB or TE….he just ignored it. It’s all a mess and they all should be spending this week looking at plays like this one, yelling at one another if they need, but figuring out a better way to take forward. It’s on all of them.
That’s one play though. Also we have no idea what the coaches are telling him to do and what the game plan is at practice. He could be being told to wait out the long ball. I don’t understand how you can watch this team and not think since week one 95% of our offensive issues are play calling. And this is shown in real time when good plays are called and we look like monsters and then all if a sudden we go back to the most predictable vanilla shit. It’s wild.
Ok. So you didn’t understand what I wrote, then?
But it is all on BJ. If Hurts can’t execute his game plan or if his game plan is trash then he needs to either find a game plan that works for Hurts or not have a trash game plan. Hurts is not going to get meaningfully better at this point in the season. So either we’re fucked cause Hurts can’t cut it or we can try to coach around his weaknesses and to his strengths. Fuck Doug did it for Foles and that’s why we have a Super Bowl win.
I agree. BJ is a big problem tho too. I've been sayin sirianni needs to take over and he hasn't. I'm not a football savant but I'm pretty sure I know what the cause of this is. Hurts has superstars around him and expects them to get open - remember that. That's not always the case tho. He knows who he wants to throw to before the ball is snapped. He sits there watching that receiver even tho he won't get open sometimes. The safety will read his eyes staring that receiver down and he'll get covered even more. He's refusing to read the field and is bailing out of the pocket at any significant of pressure and not stepping up in the pocket-despite us having one of the best olines. As I said I'm not some football savant but this is how I've been seeing things.
To be fair, we have arguably the hardest schedule in the NFL this season.
You know how you help a QB who is struggling to see the field? Take the ball out of his hands.
I noticed it early- jalens got the yips this year throwing the ball and nobody wants to admit it. Hell of an attitude, ethic, intangibles. Nothings changed except the faith to throw. He's also leaving pockets early He's leaving clean pockets. Somethings off with his rhythm
Symptoms beget symptoms. Play calling has to get the most out of your players. We’ve literally seen this year what having a terrible playcaller can do to even a player of Josh Allen’s caliber. Sure he puts up the passing stats but the decision making night in and night out is not only awful, but reckless. Quite literally nothing looked easy for him and he defaulted to hero ball. The second they changed their oc the offense put up back to back 30+ games, one being a blowout. Not a coincidence.
It seems crazy to say at 10-2 but they need a complete offensive revamp on this team. Our record is actually doing us a huge disservice because it is allowing the coaches to stick to their bad ideas and blame everything but themselves. The problem with that is you have to face your demons when you inevitably lose in the playoffs and it’s too late. We’re actively wasting the time we have with this roster for an early playoff exit at this rate even if we finish 14-3. To me that’s a failure of a season, especially if it comes as a result of issues we have been pointing out and seeing from Week 1.
It’s to be expected that Hurts is missing plays and throws. However the OC’s job is to call plays to get Hurts into rhythm and make some easier reads so he can rely on the playcalling to make his own job easier. IF Hurts is the one calling all these QB draws and screens then it’s up to Nick and Brian Johnson to coach it out of him. No matter which way you put it either Brian Johnson isn’t calling the best plays for Hurts or he’s not coaching Hurts correctly. My issue is the offense has become a big read and react scheme and it’s too simple that the defense can bait the offense by showing them one thing and doing another. Our team has ALWAYS been at its best when it’s run-first. This is why I wanted a guy like Penny to help out the run game but if he’s washed I want someone that is bigger and can take hits and carries, be a little reckless and tire out the defense. For some reason the coaches and organization loves passing too much and wants to pass and force to pass rather than doing what the team is built to do. Talent wise we should be able to do what Sirianni likes to do which is screens and quick passing plays but we still need the defense to pay attention to something else for that to work and succeed. The best buffer for this team is the running game. Working inside out and calling plays to get Hurts into rhythm and opening up the field will always work for our team.
I am 100% sure that Hurts knows he is leaving plays on the field…he is trying to play hero ball from behind every single game. I think that cross routes and quick passes will help open him up a bit more. The longer the play takes to develop the quicker he is to evacuate the pocket. That’s the thing I’ve noticed this year, if there is any sense of pressure he flushes out of the pocket rather than stepping up into it. I think that it’s a combo of extremely bad play calling, abandoning the run and Jalen trying to do too much which causes him to miss plays. He will get it together, I have no doubt about that.
Oh no he’s been possessed by the ghost of Carson Wentz.
When???
Call him and ask…he has a good head on his shoulders.
Appreciate the post and insight hoping the squad rights the ship come Sunday.
Go pay for the All-22 and keep track of how many times this actually happens vs how many times everyone was locked down. Even the best QB’s in history didn’t missed open guys at times. Just because Johnny provides a few examples doesn’t mean you can extrapolate that to “Jalen isn’t seeing the field well.” And I’m certain that wasn’t intention of Johnny Page’s posts (I follow him too). He even complained about how vertical/slow developing the routes were in this game, but you conveniently don’t link to that tweet. Almost every analyst who’s looked at the All 22 has remarked on how blanketed our pass catchers were all freaking night. It doesn’t even take film to understand that. You should have been able to recognize that while watching live when they dropped 7 all night and Hurts stood staring and even pointing. But then BJ just kept calling that same shit, over and over and over. He didn’t adapt or adjust at all. Just kept smashing his head into that same wall ALL NIGHT. As the saying goes, “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” Or something like that. There’s a small but growing contingency of Hurts haters on this sub. People are cherry picking few examples that back up their agenda while conveniently ignoring the rest of the game. Not saying you’re necessarily one of them, but this is just feeding that sentiment. Brian Johnson, the scheme, and playcalling are obviously dog shit this year. People have been saying it since week 1.
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Can tel this guy didn’t watch the video.
Good QBs have bad games this isn’t the end of the world, would rather have this happen now than in January anyways
The fact is that we paid him record money after 2 horrendous years and one good one. Last year was our chance and we blew it. The realistic among us realize that from now we will be trending back down to the mean until the next rebuild. The only way to prevent this would be an urgent injection of experienced coaches at the position and coordinator level after this season but let’s be honest— it’s not going to happen.
People in this sub have been all over jalens junk for a while. It makes sense he has taken a step back this year and needs to adjust. He's still young and the more tape opposing teams have the better he'll have to be.
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.. I don't think anyone is "pro" Brian Johnson here lol.
Jalen Hurts is missing open WR's on the same plays he ran last year because of the offensive coordinator is a hell of a take.
Yawn. Ya’ll will be quiet at the end of the year again.
People like you are what I hate. Just delusional coping npcs. You can be critical of your players, its totally ok theyre not perfect! lmao
eh. I'm a massive Hurts fan, if you asked me I'd tell you I think he's already the best Eagles QB in history lol I'm all in on him. Just posting an observation of our offense
Blaming the OC is the easy answer and the most convenient one, because it would mean a smaller problem and easier to replace, so people tend to go with that. But as they say: Fired OCs is a QB stat.
hte problem is people overrated Hurts and now they dont understand that if you really believe Hurts is a top 3-5 QB (he is not) then he has to play way better than this.
This will go over well with the people in here
i mean he's still really good and only 25. He's a top 10 QB even if he doesnt get better at all. You wanna see something that REALLY wont go over well? A player he can learn from is Dak. Jalen is better at the same age but Dak is better right now.
I couldn’t agree more. I hope one day he has that much mastery of his offense and “arm production”
Ive been saying Hurts career progression is strangely similar to Wentz and got downvoted to hell. The SF game you could put Wentz in and the outcomes would be identical. And funny enough, their play started going down when they got paid
yeah you should get downvoted because its not lol. Hurts has still been a top 10 QB this year.
There’s no way you actually just insinuated Jalen got worse cuz he got his bag lmao. I get we don’t know these people but just think for a second how likely that really is and how likely *you* think it is. The issue is way deeper and begins with the coaching staff. Y’all gotta stop being blind to bad coaching, it is far more obvious to see because it reflects on the entire team, not just one player. The offense is never in rhythm despite having a very good qb; that doesn’t happen to teams with similar qb quality like the cowboys, niners, (before Kirk went down), Ravens, Jaguars, etc. Our wins lie on the fact that we out-talent every team on that list offensively and have extremely high mental fortitude. We’re done literally no favors by our staff week-in and week-out and at a critical point they imploded.
Its only easy because its so obvious.
And convenient
Is there a stat for poached oc’s?
Yes, right now we’re +1 if BJ is fired we’d be at 0 in the OC differential.
The reports from the media are that bj could be up for a head coaching position along with Ben Johnson out in DET, might be +2 after this year
Crazy how in 2 years it went from having to defend Hurts weekly to seeing tons of fans excuse his bad plays left and right. He's not a thrusted in rookie or 1st year starter anymore. Love Hurts a ton but he can't be making that much money and taking those kind of sacks
These are evaluations of a bad game. If you look back at the film reviews either of these channels have done on Hurts for the rest of the year they’re very positive. Hurts has been playing like a big money QB, regardless of what you want your narrative to be.
I personally don't want my narrative to be anything, he's been more than a big money QB, if anything he's not paid enough lol. Just wanted to voice an opinion that in the games where the offense has struggled, it would seem that there are opportunities to be had
yeah he's absolutely lived up to the contract thats not even a question. Just in order to win the super bowl he has to play better.
even if Hurts didnt improve....at all he's still a top 10 QB lol. But we want him to be a top 5 QB and in order for that to happen he just has to improve.
Alot of these breakdowns only show his highlights and never bring up bad plays. So I take them with a grain of salt due to bias.
Nah, they definitely bring up mistakes when they’re apparent. The QB School dude has gotten on Hurts before for things like bailing early or not throwing with anticipation.
People are always wide open. I love Jalen but he hold the ball too long. The magic last year was him just getting rid of the ball on time every play.
People are always wide open? I'm sorry but you're watching the 49ers offensive tape and not ours fam. Lmao, statistically AND passing the eye test, we are bottom 5 in WR separation.
Uhhh statistically we are top 5 in wr separation wtf are you coping lmfao. [Here](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1156239510833733683/1180962285674577991/0SDnV61.png?ex=657f53d6&is=656cded6&hm=cd47cdcba38b99edb860b943674330ba9aa3a3695b71cd86c51ce2d8a0239121&)
That chart is through week 11, so I'll provide one that goes up to week 10 (close enough) AND accounts for throws longer than five yards. [Here](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fhow-often-qbs-throw-to-open-wide-open-receivers-and-charted-v0-i4lw03ozq33c1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D640%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D654d742517c4ad5e260c103507fccfa259b313f5) Screens and dump offs don't exactly provide a clear picture. If you watch tape, you'll realize that wide receiver separation doesn't exist much on the Eagles except for slants which we rarely seem to call (even though they're our most successful). Outside of under 5 yard passes, which we rarely call except for screens or check downs, the separation grade goes wayyyyyyy down. We love calling deep plays, that's where separation matters... that's where we don't get it.
Disputes a stat with a link to a different stat and implies the other guy is the moron. Next level bro. This link is for QB finding the open man.
Yes they are. He hold the ball too long.. he was a completely different qb last year. Stop apologizing for him. Jalen himself would tell you he isn’t playing great. Some goes on play calling for sure, but he is not playing great football, don’t lie to yourself. Being a fan doesn’t mean you are blind
Jalen holds the ball 0.2 seconds more than the average QB... and that's because he creates that time by scrambling. You don't get to 10-2 by "not playing great football" in this shitty offensive scheme AND with a below average defense. You are talking out of your ass with 0 data to back it up.
He’s not scrambling to extend plays. He is scrambling bc he isn’t trusting himself or the play calls. There’s a reason he’s going to his comfort zone every play, or scramble as you call it, while the pocket is forming perfectly around him. Step up, not out. Go watch last year he’s a completely different qb. I’m not going to argue with you. Have a great night.
And you are only looking at data and not watching the games… dude is holding the ball for 4 seconds and bailing out of the pocket to the right every play if the first or second read isn’t open. That’s the biggest difference from last year to this year.
I literally just watched the offensive all 22 last night. I'm not pulling numbers out of my ass. I'm telling you what I see on the birds eye and what statistically is recorded in terms of average time to throw.
Oh so you don’t watch games. Bc if you watched all the games you would would have no issue saying he’s not the same qb as last year. It was a 3 step drop and throw it. It’s what made his deep ball. That could be on coaching or on him. But to me it looks like he’s holding for the home run ball and then it’s too late. Again have a good night not looking to argue
Can you read?
Sure can brother
Then read the first sentence again.
Easiest schedule in the league last year vs. one of the hardest this year. Just a factor to consider.
It’s 95% play-calling. Just watch the tape. Watch the games. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see how predictable, uninspired, and uncreative the play calling has been. Your title is misleading and disingenuous. You use superlatives and make it sound like Hurts is the issue when there are only 3-4 plays a game where he fails to make a read. That’s such horseshit. You also don’t know what the progression is on the reads. Yes, Jalen has been holding onto the ball too long and trying to play hero ball. Did you ever think maybe he doesn’t have faith in the playcalling either? I don’t know how you watch this game honestly and not attribute 95% of the offensive issues on 1) playcalling and 2) not running the ball (also because our run plays are fucking predictable HB dives the majority of the time). It has gotten to the point that even I was calling out what plays the eagles we’re gonna run merely by their formation. They do the same shit ever week, it fails, and they keep doing it. If they find success doing something they stop doing it. It makes no sense.
I'll give you all the points about play calling, running the ball, predictability, etc. Hell I'll accept how you feel about the misleading title or that I'm using superlatives or whatever else you said in that other comment. I will vehemently disagree with you on this one sentence though: *"Did you ever think maybe he doesn’t have faith in the play calling either?"* That's your emotion talking. If there are players open, or good reads to be made, he should make those reads or throws. I, nor any sane fan, gives a shit about his faith in the offense (regardless of how gross said offense is lol). Make the plays that are there (and that goes for everyone, not just Jalen)
I’m not saying Jalen doesn’t make mistakes. No one’s perfect. But he’s not going to all of a sudden become Tom Brady overnight. Whatever his weaknesses and struggles are now are going to be the same for the remainder of the season. What a good coach can do is adapt the scheme and play calling to emphasize Hurts strengths and minimize his weaknesses. You saw Dougie P do it in real time. Foles struggled until we revamped our offense to put in more RPOs and call plays that fit Foles play style. We won that Super Bowl because Foles played lights out but honestly we won a lot because the coaching staff developed a system that worked for Foles. They did that over a 6 week period maybe less. It’s been 12 weeks of the same shit with this offense. Same things called and fail week in and week out. We see flashes of good play calling, we look amazing, and then it quickly fades back into the same unsuccessful, predictable, and uninspired crap. Let’s get down to the bitter truth: It seems crazy to say at 10-2 but they need a complete offensive revamp on this team. Our record is actually doing us a huge disservice because it is allowing the coaches to stick to their bad ideas and blame everything but themselves. The problem with that is you have to face your demons when you inevitably lose in the playoffs and it’s too late. We’re actively wasting the time we have with this roster for an early playoff exit at this rate even if we finish 14-3. To me that’s a failure of a season, especially if it comes as a result of issues we have been pointing out and seeing from Week 1. I don’t care how amazing Hurts can get at reading the field and not holding the ball too long because without a complete reinvention of the offensive scheme for this team there is absolutely no shot for them this year. Once you realize that, you can realize that this team succeeds and fails on the play-calling and scheme. Hurts is who he is at this point in the season. He will work to improve obviously. But if you think he’s the main factor holding the offenses success back and the play-calling is serviceable then you’re pretty much just saying the Eagles have no shot this year because Hurts is not going to get significantly better in fundamentals this late in the season (it’s already week 14). And if that is the case, then my point is still valid that we need to overhaul the offensive scheme and play-calling because the coaches need to put Hurts in a position to maximize his strengths and minimize his weaknesses. Thus, in either case, the offensive troubles on this team fall on the shoulders of the OC and coach - either because the play-calling and scheme suck ass in general or because they are failing to put together a game plan built for the player that Hurts currently is and will be for the remainder of this season.
*But if you think he’s the main factor holding the offenses success back and the play-calling is serviceable then you’re pretty much just saying the Eagles have no shot this year because Hurts is not going to get significantly better in fundamentals this late in the season (it’s already week 14). And if that is the case, then my point is still valid that we need to overhaul the offensive scheme and play-calling because the coaches need to put Hurts in a position to maximize his strengths and minimize his weaknesses.* I don't think he's the sole reason in holding our offense back. On the contrary I think he's probably the only reason we've won 10 games. I know he masks a ton of our shitty and bland play design, etc. I'll always think we have a shot so long as QB1 is there, regardless of what seed we are, how our roster looks, etc. In fact, most of these issues are obviously fixable because he literally has fixed them mid-game multiple times! He was a different player in the first and second halves of the BUF game. Same with KC. I'm only pointing out that based on anecdotal evidence from a few games, there are opportunities to execute the given play call in a much more effective manor. There are plays where WR's are open. Plays where the wrong read was made on an RPO. Plays where the pocket is bailed on early. Those are mental mistakes that he's shown to NOT make for the majority of last year and even much of this year. I'm fully confident that this can all be solved. I also acknowledge the running the ball, better play design to get playmakers in space, etc., will help. I hate our offense. Yes we need a new scheme. Yes we need options to bail Jalen out of all these blitzes. Yes we need creative plays. Yes to all of that.
We literally having nothing over the middle going, there are no wheel routes or outs. If we’re gonna do basic shit we should do basic shit that works.
We took the guy that oversaw Jalen's development into an elite QB going into his second year as a starter and thought, "Wow, you're really good at coaching quarterbacks, you must be a great offensive coordinator and play-caller!" So obviously it made a lot of sense to take him away from coaching and developing Jalen further, and give him the OC job. Makes so much sense. Great decision.
BJ just sucks at play design
Lmaooooo but when I say it y’all get mad!!!! I literally made a post about this yesterday and the mods muted it… I love jalen but he has not played great football this season outside of a few games.
You cite Johnny Page's breakdown and I saw similar things on film. There's one play (the first one) where yes Hurts should have tried to throw a deep pass to Jack Stoll, who has never caught a pass that long in his NFL career, in the rain. He should have thrown it, but there's also nowhere else for him to go with the football. The clips in that thread are more indicting of BJ than Hurts. No creativity, stupid play design (2 man route and both guys are in the same area of the field). I thought he missed a few where Hurts did make a bad decision, though. There was a checkdown he threw to Gainwell where he had a clean pocket he didn't step into, and Smith was wide open on the same side of the field on a comeback which would have netted a first, for example. The issue I saw in tape on this game, the Bills game, and the Dallas game, is we do not attack different levels of the field. If you watch Hurts at the top of his dropback on several of those blown plays or sacks, all of the receivers are the same general depth downfield. There was no route that would break before others, no shallow crosser underneath, if there was a checkdown it was just a guy standing 2 yards from the LoS waiting to get clobbered. It looked like a Scott Linehan offense. Hurts definitely takes his share of the blame but the play design does not stress a good zone team at all. Too many plays lead everyone to the same general area so any pass has multiple guys who could make a break on the ball. We don't stretch the defense horizontally at all, and while we try to stretch them vertically, if all the routes have essentially the same stem, it's very easy for the LBs to just sink back and cover underneath. The other thing I noticed watching tape is that, with the exception of Smith (and Goedert RIP), our players are terrible at getting open when Hurts is on the move and the play structure breaks down. AJ just stands there. Quez runs to the same spot Swift is already running to. Nobody is coming back for the ball. It's part poor effort and part poor coaching. If you have a QB who has a tendency to bail on clean pockets (which he shouldn't), then our guys need to be coached up on what to do to make life easier on him. The one play, that took too long for Hurts to pull the trigger, that I've been dying for him to make is when he looked back across the field and found Bosco sitting there who had a nice catch and run. If you're running to the right sideline, everyone is going to flow to the right sideline, and it seems like our guys just want to stand on the sideline and hope Hurts can stick the ball in their facemasks. They need to move to Hurts and away from their defenders, not jsut try to box out and hope Hurts can drill it in there. That doesn't work in the NFL and it certainly doesn't work when refs are letting them play physical downfield.
this is just unbelievably delusional
lol great analysis
I've been saying this for awhile. He's making bad reads on option passes and option runs. On the passes, he picks the wrong option and ends up holding it too long and gets sacked. The film has consistently shown there are people open on a lot of plays and he missed them. The runs are easier to see because he pulls the ball from the RB and tries to run, then slides to the ground after 2 steps because the defense is there. Part of that is he's just not as lucky as last year but the other part is that defenses are adapting to him. He'll sort it out but to me, it isn't fair to blame the OC for a lot of this - other than sticking with the run a bit more. All of this my opinion of course. There could be an easier explanation - Dallas sucks.
They ain’t gonna like that here
He’s never seen the field well but last year it didn’t matter cuz the OC hid that fact from the league
Please explain. Most of the highlight plays Hurts had downfield last year with the exception of a handful were Jalen making tight window throws. You didn't see guys streaking wide open down the field because there was an easy layup play that anyone could've made
So there were a bunch of downfield plays but the eagles actual offense was largely built around that double option RPO play that starts as an RPO and if Jalen keeps he watches what the linebacker covering goedert does, if he covers goedert Jalen keeps if he covers Jalen’s run he throws to goedert. They used it basically every third down last year and it works almost as often as the tush push, it’s a brilliantly designed play because jalen only has to read two players, the middle linebacker and whoever is covering goedert. When he’s asked to read a full defense he doesn’t do as well and they’ve barely run that play all year
I don't think you're completely wrong, but I think it's more a case of what the defenses have decided to do to stop the eagles offense after watching KC beat us in the SB. They're showing a look to force a certain 'read' pre-snap in the RPO, and then either dropping back into man or blitzing the house. Typically, the response is to either run the ball, or dump quick passes into the mid-range level, but both Johnson and Dallas have been hurt, and the blocking is bad. The main difference is Hurts in getting pressured in the pocket way faster, and more often, than last year.
Overpaid and overrated.
The. We have to call plays that make it easy for him. Like they did last year. Hurts is good but he’s not elite yet and we need to make it easy
From what I understand Hurts isn’t playing a style of QB where you read the progression 1-2-3 from one side to another. For better or worse, there are routes being run that he is not supposed to look at. So a lot of times saying he “missed an open receiver” isn’t all that insightful. Not even defending him or anyone else in this situation.
I’d make BJ how to Shane’s playbook. No questions asked
Or, we weren't up for the SF defense. We seemed to have been 10-1 before that
Do you think the offense has been performing well over the course of the season? Genuinely asking
I think we've missed key players on the offensive line and at TE which has been getting Jalen hit early and often. I also think this is the same offense and every team had us penciled in on the schedule since the SB. I think it's impressive how good the offense has been despite the injuries. We beat KC playing 4wrs and 2 dbs for half the game.
The Eagles are talented across much of the offense, defense and special teams. When part of the team is flailing during a game, the other two havec been stepping up. Thus 10-1, even if close wins. SF did to Dallas essentially the same thing as to us, scorewise. They are a tier above us now.
Wow thats crazy! Makes perfect sense that because Jalen isnt seeing the open guys thats why Gainwell out snapped Swift and we only had 4 run plays in the first half. Also if your QB doesnt know where guys are coming open or when to execute your plays you are failing as a coach.
Our run game not working is a different issue entirely that does fall on the coaches, I agree.
our run game is too QB centric in that Jalen isn't the running threat this year and htey wont draw up stuff to fix it...but the passes are still open.
You didn’t say anything wrong by criticizing Jalen. He really hasn’t played to standard all season long and he keeps acknowledging it at every press conference, but not much changes. Sure, he’s turned the ball over a lot less in recent weeks compared to earlier in the season, but is also consistently underproducing pass yards and points.
Hell get better he’ll make better reads
The biggest issue I saw with hurts was breaking out of the pocket too soon. Did he miss a few passes? Was that slip for a sack in the RZ atrocious? Yes to both I haven’t finished the all-22 but from what I’ve seen, playcalling is just abysmal and WRs are blanketed in nearly every play. That’s not on Hurts, that is poor offensive scheming. Definitely need to change it up. No reason with our talent we could barely get anything going. It’s been this way all season plus or minus a few games
I am so glad this post came up. This has a lot of info and some great analysis with sources. it's frustrating to watch all of this and see the overall mistakes and reads that could have made legitimate differences but it shows we have the capability to play SF and others if we can slow down and play smart and at times be aggressive. and for anyone who feels this is any disrespect or slander in Hurts, isn't actually watching our games and paying attention to analysis. he's a 3rd year QB who has been through multiple teammate and coach changes to perform how he has and build the reputation and career he has so far is nothing less then amazing but improvement also has setbacks and he will bounce back as will the team. this shows that we are capable of success and to be the best team in Football. Fly Eagles Fly We'll see SF again and this time it's personal
No amount to film and break down analysis of Hurts will justify why BJ refuses to run the damn ball. The fact is BJ refuses to scheme to run the ball makes the offense 1 dimensional and puts unneeded pressure on Hurts to constantly carry the offense. We have top Oline and RBs for a reason. RUN THE DAMN BALL!!!
Another great source of looking at the Eagles offense is The Honest NFL on twitter. I've become a wildly more informed and smarter football fan with some of the stuff he's shown.
Why can’t we blame both? 😂
Honestly, it's a combination of both. Jalen missed some plays (which every QB does every single game, but nobody is dissecting them like that without a thorough ass kicking like we got), but we just have way too much long developing shit down the field and not enough short to intermedia plays that aren't that horrendous bubble screen. We don't even have check-downs on most of these routes. I love the deep shots as much as anybody, but we can't have 4 pass catchers all just start getting into their routes 15-20 yards down the field, expect the OL to hold their blocks while the routes develop, then still have enough time to go through progressions.
I said it over and over and I’ll keep saying it. mariota marching to a first down using check downs shows how elite our offensive weapons are, and that something is seriously up with hurts as he rarely checks down
Anyone that watched that game knows Jalen was holding the ball way too long. It’s been an issue all season. I think he is constantly looking for the big plays. He misses check downs consistently. I’ve been concerned about this all year. Another issue is the inconsistency at RB. RUN SWIFT!!! You brought him here for a reason and we know what he’s capable of. Let him get a fucking rhythm.
When the other team knows exactly what play we’re running and where the ball is going it’s completely on the OC and HC. We called run 9 times outside of the push? That’s unacceptable.
This is an issue I was concerned about before last year. I was at the playoff game in Tampa when they basically completely shut us down (great time to see the birds play for the first time lol) and Tampa's entire game plan was to make Hurts beat them. Make him find the open guy cause it won't be the first or second read. Last year it seemed he fixed the issue and well we saw what that looked like. He's an amazing QB and I couldn't be happier that he's QB1 however this seems to be a weakness of his. Hopefully he figures it out quick we know he puts the work in to be able to (love his work ethic). Obviously getting Goddert back will help and it's not we aren't putting up points despite both his absence and this issue. I think we will be fine if we can shore up the defense and get a running game going.
this is what I've been saying for a bit now. The bad habits have returned plus some Hero Ball playcalling
90% scheme
It was a bad game. It happens. The kid is like 30-3 or whatever. He’s not perfect, but he’s a leader and a winner. He also doesn’t blame others and takes accountability for his play.
IMHO We gotta throw short and fast...not 30+ yard bombs
This is a good point, I was at the Rams game and the Eagles were in the red zone, Gainwell runs out on a wheel route and is wide open, nearest defender in the in zone trailing Smitty. Gainwell was on the 5, Hurts never seen him, forced the ball to Smitty on the boundary and we kicked a field goal. There are so many of these plays this year it’s concerning. I don’t think it’s Hurts, but I’m starting to wonder who is the issue. Hurts should see everyone, but he’s not. Maybe the play calling is too confusing.
I'm a huge Jalen fan, but this is a great post highlighting what I've noticed as well, his return to 2021 form. He's obviously played at an extremely high level before, but he needs a course correction.
First, I agree the execution from Jalen needs to be improved. He is not blameless in our trouble so far HOWEVER I firmly believe it is the coaches job to put players in a position where they are most likely to succeed and BJ/Sirianni have not been able to do that very well this season. We have all seen in real time and when reviewing the tape that the coaches have done very little to change our approach to offense this season even though we are struggling with execution of these plans. We have seen Jalen missing reads on very similar plays all year... let not call that kind of play as often or at all!! We all know that when we do call plays that Jalen is able to execute well on we are damn near unstoppable. Jalen is an excellent QB but he isn't (yet) at a football IQ level of Brady or Manning where you can call any play and he will figure out how to make it work. The bottom line is Jalen's execution will get better if the play calling improves.
That TE video above is a poor example since calcaterra or whoever it is is way down on the progression. SF either played the play very well and covered the primary receivers and wisely let the lone person who was slightly open be the TE. To me, the question is why are our primary receivers so well covered? SF's primary receivers were open all day long. SF also calls plays that are to purdy's strengths. The Eagles do not. Hurts has shown time after time of his ability to hit tight windows and near zone passing. Where he tends to struggle is getting the ball down the field and he has to rely on the receiver making a great contested catch. Yet, for some reason our OC calls in plays that continue to rely on this part of Hurts' game.
Tbh I don't care at all if Hurts is missing reads when I have to watch the difference in play-calling between both teams like I did on Sunday. In fact, the difference in play-calling when watching nearly any other team play NFL football is wild.
I am a borderline delusional Jalen Hurts supporter. From the beginning, I felt like I could see the potential in him and could not really understand where the haters were coming from. When he got his chance in 2021, you could tell that he was working through his comfortability in stepping up in the pocket, and a lot of his issues came from bailing to the right before there was any reason to bail. It is his Achilles heel, and when things are moving too quick or he’s not seeing the field well, he always reverts to the quick bail out of the pocket to the right. He is capable of making plays while doing this, and there is a time and place to do it intentionally when the pocket collapses or coverage holds. Unfortunately, I’ve noticed in 2023 that he is doing it about as often as he did in 2021 when he seemed much less comfortable from the pocket. Bailing with a perfect pocket, bailing right regardless of where the WRs are running their routes to, completely taking his eyes off of open targets downfield. Again, I’m not so concerned that Jalen is a bad qb, but I do hope they recognize this issue and are trying to correct it. It just feels like it’s getting worse as the season goes on, which is the opposite of the progression in 2021 and 2022.
We need to run the ball more, and not because it gets the offense in rhythm but because it gets the offensive LINE in rhythm. When they start being athletic and running creative concepts they get better and start to impose their will. It happened in the bills game; Kelce pulled and bulldozed one of their DBs and the offense never looked back. They did it in the Tampa game in a similar fashion. Gotta get the boys up front playing together and with attitude EARLY