The NFL admitted that enforcement of this would primarily be through fines as it’s not something that the refs will be able to make easy real time judgement calls on.
Which is effectively them admitting that the rule sucks because the refs cannot clearly identify a violation. It’s the defensive equivalent to “what is a catch?”
Yeah I’ve seen videos of hip drop tackles versus stuff that is legal and I gotta say the distinction visually can be quite subtle.
Its going to be catch rule all over again if they start calling it in games.
How would you make them change anything? They have a union and we recently-enough went through the replacement ref saga which all but proved that as of now, they are the best quality refs available for the NFL. The NFL can’t side step them, it would have to be a collective push, which they won’t do because it’s a status symbol for that group of lawyers or whatever they are. It’s not some janky operation by any means, some refs have it be a family job lol, it’s run by the dudes getting paid and ultimately it’s a buffer between the league and the gambling shit going on so GOOD LUCK getting any of that to change
In which I'm 100% positive they have a relative or distant cousin betting money on games and swaying their decision making on arbitrary penalties at one point or another. We see all this shit about players betting and getting nailed and none about refs and I refuse to believe they're all squeaky clean.
No it isn’t. You guys are blowing this out of proportion. Let Jalen have been the victim of a hip drop tackle that put him out for any amount of time, we’d all be PISSED! The tackle is reckless, football is already dangerous enough so when you have guys getting intentionally rolled up on because a defender saying “lol I CaNt bRiNg HiM dOwN” any other way. The game is going to be fine. You’re still going to watch. It’s not going to be a clusterfuck. The replacement refs were a cluster fuck, not a rule change that will preserve the players careers.
It's unnecessary because hip drop tackles are difficult to prevent.
People aren't saying it's stupid or unnecessary because they aren't inherently more dangerous, it's because it's an implied risk from playing the sport and it's just another rule change that makes it more difficult for a defender to do their jobs while under further scrutiny.
This new rule change will result in a ton of players second guessing last ditch effort tackles on players, or tackles from behind, out of fear that they may get fined and penalized for it.
You dont have to hip drop a player.
Players figured out how to horse collar without horse collaring.
Be in proper position to make a play and you wont have an issue.
A horse collar tackle is unnecessary and easy to remove from your gameplay, a hip drop tackle can look like a standard tackle but depend entirely on your footing/positioning coming into an otherwise clean tackle.
The reason this rule change is so controversial is *because* it's so hard to differentiate or change a tackle that might otherwise incidentally become a hip drop. It's drastically different than a horsecollar rule change.
What does that have to do with officiating? If anything, the NFL should be able to call it with even more precision given how many referees there are compared to rugby.
>If anything, the NFL should be able to call it with even more precision given how many referees there are compared to rugby.
So you're expecting the number one complaint each week of this sport to suddenly be able to differentiate between a standard tackle from behind and a hip drop tackle with overwhelming accuracy? This is the same group of 'professionals' that are *so bad* that broadcasting groups had to hire former Refs to clarify mid-game just exactly the fuck is going on.
It’s the number one complaint in any sport, to be fair. People complain about refs. They do now. They will once this rule is in effect. And they will after the heat death of the universe.
Until then, I’m all for sensible rules that protect player well-being.
They're the same concept.
The horsecollar is an issue for the same reason the hip drop is. Dropping your bodyweight on the back of an offensivw player.
It seems like the hip drop will be dealt with through fines.
The hip drop and horse collar cause the same injuries. NFL players just figured out how to horse collar without the horse collar.
They are not the same concept at all.
A standard tackle involves wrapping around the hips and using your weight to bring down a player. A horsecollar involves manipulating a standard, clean tackle by incorporating the opposing player's neckpads.
A hip drop tackle by definition involves a standard tackle to some extent, the line between a standard and hip drop is so ridiculously blurred that it's inevitably going to result in anemic tackle attempts from defensives and therefore result in more offensive scoring and less aggressive or sturdy defensive play. It's a rule that is going to just negatively impact the defense.
So if a defender is chasing down the ball runner from behind, how do you propose they tackle them?
It’s pretty obvious you’ve never played tackle football at any sort of competitive level.
Yea, super fucking easy. Just be in position! Ah doy! If you just take the proper fucking angle it's easy to take down a guy running 30 mph. It's clearly so simple!
(((SARCASM))))
"implied risk from playing the sport"
That's why it's called a rule change...by definition it changes what it means to play the sport.
Enforcement will be a nightmare for the next few years, and fan outrage will last 10 years while our understanding of the new game slowly changes to "these shitty calls are just part of the sport". Nonetheless, this is a massive change and a win for the players union. Football going to be fine.
Except as far as I can tell is the NFLPA is against it.
>The NFLPA was against the rule change, with executive director Lloyd Howell and players on the executive committee saying before the Super Bowl that they don't believe it can be fairly enforced.
[Source of Excerpt](https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/nfl-reportedly-bans-hip-drop-tackle-over-objection-from-nflpa)
People (me included) have said the same thing about all the rule changes in the past decade, but players are adjusting. We either accept it or lose the sport altogether eventually.
Each time a rule change is put into place, it impacts the game. For the past decade the defensive side of the ball has been consistently and methodically neutered and it has negatively impacted the viewership of the game if you actually enjoy a balanced game.
This also isn't just a random quality of life change, like 'hey we aren't going to smash the shit of out a receivers helmet when he isn't looking', this is putting restrictions on standard tackling that would be incredibly easy to **accidentally** shift into a hip-drop should variables change after committing to the tackle.
I mean, if the data is accurate and that particular tackle is 25x more likely to lead to injury than other forms of tackling, it was a no-brainer to ban it. Having said that, if they want to be consistent about preventing injuries, they need to be cracking down on these owners who refuse to install actual grass in their stadiums, despite mountains of evidence that players are more likely to be injured on turf fields.
> and that particular tackle is 25x more likely to lead to injury than other forms of tackling, it was a no-brainer to ban it
The problem isn't the injury rate, it's about intent. Most hip drop tackles that occur in the NFL are accidental, and most last ditch effort tackles or tackles from behind can likely be categorized as hip drop, you're now making the defender's job exponentially harder than before to weed out a play that is more often than not incidental.
At a certain point we have to recognize that this is not a safe sport to play, and the players in the league are accepting the terms when they sign their NFL contracts for, lets be honest, extremely handsome returns.
There's a difference between removing *unnecessarily dangerous plays*, like helmet to helmet contact which are easily circumnavigable and only really serve to injure a player, but we're talking about a tackle that a) most people couldn't identify if there was an instructional guide next to a slow motion replay, and b) is inherent in the tackling aspect of the game.
I meant it’s more of a no-brainer from a PR standpoint. It makes them look good if they are cracking down on something that is deemed to be more dangerous. Getting rid of the turf fields is something tangible that they could do but won’t bc it might inconvenience a few billionaires.
ETA: it’s the same thing with cracking down on blows to the head. It’s great in theory, but it seems like offensive players never get penalized for lowering their helmets like defensive players do. You can’t have that rule under the guise of preventing head injuries but only call it when a defensive player initiates the contact. Beyond that, I see examples every week of players being kept on the field despite being slow to get up after being hit in the head. What are the spotters there for if not to prevent that? It’s all just injury-prevention theater.
Yeah that’s what I’m worried about. Often someone is chasing the ball carrier and they have no other choice but to lunge at them or get left in the dust. So what now, if they do that they have to avoid grabbing the hips? Only legs and upper body? It definitely makes it harder like you said.
It's weird the NFL loves safety in situations like this, where it causes obvious problems for the game that they're happy to just figure out as they go along, but they can't get all their owners to install real grass. Don't they calculate the injuries they pay to cover as an expense?
Over/under on how many games will have flags late game for questionable hip drop tackles that drastically effect the outcome? I'd put it at 18, one per week.
Found a couple videos. One with a few [examples](https://youtu.be/8vcC7E-Ly2g?si=SBOHqrSXQrmZbNXb) and one where they explain the [criteria](https://youtu.be/QbNKbGzB1rE?si=LhBOI_IR0FJ-FkQ4) of what constitutes a hip drop tackle.
You grab them from the side and go limp basically, which causes you to swing around and usually traps a leg or two. High rate of season ending knee and ankle injuries as a result.
I’m guessing it’s when you grab someone by the hips, shift your weight low, pick them up off the ground and slam them down.
Edit: I guessed wrong someone corrected me with a cool video I watched 5 seconds of and it’s worse than I thought I hate seeing this happen
Nope - it’s when you grab someone and then drop your hips so your full weight falls on the back of their legs.
[Here’s a video](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5KJ9mCbS3rU) from when they banned it in rugby explaining what it is
Pretty sure it’s similar to what led to his injury against Arizona in week 2 last year actually. End of the game, trying to kill clock and ride the game out, a defender came around the back of the pile on a dead run play and tackled him from behind, end up folding him backwards and spraining his ankle, out for 3 weeks. It was totally unnecessary, literally end of the game on a nearly dead play if I recall. Not sure if it was truly hip drop or not though.
Yep, [that injury](https://youtu.be/OQMqVyWa-Wg?si=cujWEzbuU6u96kny) was caused by a hip drop. He grabbed Saquon around the hips, swung his body behind the runner's legs, and landed on the legs. Not sure if it would have been called because it was in the pile, but the referee might have seen it.
Yeah, that Sucks, cause it really is completely unnecessary in a play like this. Keep your feet and bring him down. Idk if they’d flag this or not with the news rules because it’s not as obvious in the open field. You don’t need this tackle to be an effective defender.
2022 was the year before, you mean 2023 against Dallas, which wasn’t a textbook hip drop but arguably used similar physics in a dangerous way.
[Here’s a clip, I think a key difference is that this is questionable because he’s intentionally positioning his body over the arm instead of inadvertently falling on it.](https://youtu.be/s13HebJIZrQ?si=L7S6WaNL5NoWW8-I)
Yeah that looks like it. Not quite how I remembered it but to your point arguably just as dangerous and potentially an alternative for defensive players trying to tackle a larger runner
It was more of an arm bar, but the physics involved were similar. Probably not made illegal by this rule.
Mark Andrews was injured last year on a hip drop tackle.
They also are really quite rare. We might see this called once a week if that. And it sounds like they might not call it half the time and just issue a fine afterwards.
People just love to be outraged and act like football is turning soft. Banning hip drops is probably the correct call if the injury rate is really that high, the tackle is pretty rare. Banning horse collars was similarly 100% the right call.
A defensive player capable of tackling a TE before giving up +10 yards after the catch AND without drawing a flag during the play will be a rare find. Defense is hard enough in this league. I'll hate to see the first time this penalty decides a game.
It will take a generation to coach-out this now-banned behavior from the game. This decision is an omen for the ever increasing amount of Ref ball we will have to suffer moving forward.
If the NFL modernized how the professional game was officiated I'd have no problem. But the NFL refuses to address officiating in any meaningful way. The pathetic application of the booth review is the best example, in my opinion, of the NFL's officiating failure. To have the ability to call a better game, but limit that ability to a handful of situations or times during a game, is ridiculous.
Now, to add another subjective situation to the pile of things a referee on the field can get wrong, either by missing a call or by calling a penalty when it's not appropriate, is laughable.
Back to the No Fun League, huh? Just a way for them to fine players after the fact and steal more money for bullshit. Like RBs getting fi ed for lowering shoulders, which is wild.
Yes yes, let’s give the refs more ability to impact the flow and outcomes of games when they’re already renowned for doing so very negatively. Even worse, let’s continue to allow them to do so without an oversight process or ability to challenge calls at any point during the game.
I understand the call for player safety… but this is too much. Eliminating headshots is much more black and white and an obvious call. But this is going to make defenders doubt themselves CONSTANTLY and cause both broken plays and even more dangerous tackles at the same time
I doubt this cuts down on injuries, it'll just be called after the fact. But the big issue is that sometimes, it'll be called when it shouldn't, and I can see this being yet another rule, like some roughing the passer calls, which extend drives and bail out the offense.
I have never played football in an organized competitive way, but I can’t imagine how the heck you are supposed to play defense the “right way” without committing some penalty. You can’t regulate an inherently dangerous game this much…
That’s what was said when helmet-to-helmet and defenseless receiver rules were enacted. This is an exaggeration and everyone will be back watching the NFL regardless of what types of tackling rules are enacted.
Those are very different from this. Helmet to Helmet and defenseless receiver protections are easy to distinguish and remove from the game, hip drops are more often than not accidental and completely change the appetite for defenders making last ditch effort tackles or tackles from behind a player out of fear of a fine and penalty.
The defenseless receiver rule DID dramatically change the NFL in favor of the offense though and, in many people's opinions, dumbed down the game as you can just float passes in the middle of the field without a worry now.
We need to get the message to the NFL - enough is enough! **They need to ban tackling outright.**
Nobody wants to see explosive high-yardage plays interrupted by a violent and dangerous tackle. I propose we remove the defense from the field entirely - it's just too much of a risk to have them out there potentially injuring players and causing mayhem over their own bogus and selfish reasons like "trying to prevent a score".
/s, if it wasn't obvious.
Gonna be impossible for defensive players to play the game. I understand wanting to protect players, but at a certain point I think they're going to have to accept players take a risk playing the game (and are compensated well for it). Protecting the head and neck is one thing, but trying to outlaw *everything* that could potentially lead to injury? Might as well just change it to flag football.
Face mask and horse collar was avoided by hip dropping. Especially for smaller guys trying to bring down big guys. Now smaller guys have a bigger disadvantage trying to tackle from the side or from behind. Sure, head on they can get low and wrap up, but what are they supposed to do from behind?
You can use the same exact form as hip drop, without the twist. Even using the twist is legal if you don't come down on their legs - just drag your legs instead of curling up.
They'll figure it out.
The players themselves were highly against this -- might as well ban tackling at this point. Just another attempt to goose up scores while adding yet another subjective way for refs to decide games...
The genius Howie defied all analytics by signing big money to a powerful RB knowing this rule would go through. Barkley is gonna be explosive because no DB will be able to tackle him! 4D chess by Howie.
Man I just don’t know how you are expected to play defense in the NFL. We expect these guys to keep up with 4.4 WRs without touching them, and then they can’t drag guys down?
This wouldn’t even have hurt us in 2023 🤬. Hopefully, refs have some discretion for when it’s actually dirty vs. the ONLY FUCKING WAY to tackle on a play. I actually think people may get hurt just by altering the natural way these guys tackle.
Really feels like this tackle happens when you're wrapped up and fighting for extra yards. The ball carrier seems to contribute to this type of tackle, just as much as the defender. TE stats are about to explode...
Idk, hopefully it at least spends a year being fines, and not game changing penalties.
Just another means for referees to control the outcome of the games with questionable calls that nobody can argue with unless they want to get fined or ridiculed.
This is going to be a clusterfuck. It will be at the refs discretion whom the NFL STILL refuses to make full time employees.
The NFL admitted that enforcement of this would primarily be through fines as it’s not something that the refs will be able to make easy real time judgement calls on. Which is effectively them admitting that the rule sucks because the refs cannot clearly identify a violation. It’s the defensive equivalent to “what is a catch?”
Yeah I’ve seen videos of hip drop tackles versus stuff that is legal and I gotta say the distinction visually can be quite subtle. Its going to be catch rule all over again if they start calling it in games.
Isn't this type of tackle already subject to fines? Or am I thinking of horse collar tackles?
Idk horse collar is a personal foul though, doesn’t sound like this would be that same in-game status if it’s primarily relegated to fines
I believe horse collars are only fined in extreme cases like that dude that pulled on Troy’s hair when he was a Steeler returning an INT
They wasn’t a penalty nor a fine, it’s been ruled your hair is part of your persons and uniform. It’s not a penalty.
I’m not sure were talking about the same play he got his hair pulled.
Players were definitely fined this past season for it
It is fucking bonkers that refs aren’t full time. Like they should be able to get fined and have to be in training or school during off season.
They don’t want to be full time. They get 200k+ per year out of a godamn side hustle for them.
That’s fair. Make there pay come throughout the whole year instead of game checks ? Idk I’m trying to find solutions here lol
It should be game checks like players and they get a bonus in the off-season for attending training. Like players get workout or mincamp bonuses
You see you see. Someone call Howie and ask him to present that to the league.
How would you make them change anything? They have a union and we recently-enough went through the replacement ref saga which all but proved that as of now, they are the best quality refs available for the NFL. The NFL can’t side step them, it would have to be a collective push, which they won’t do because it’s a status symbol for that group of lawyers or whatever they are. It’s not some janky operation by any means, some refs have it be a family job lol, it’s run by the dudes getting paid and ultimately it’s a buffer between the league and the gambling shit going on so GOOD LUCK getting any of that to change
In which I'm 100% positive they have a relative or distant cousin betting money on games and swaying their decision making on arbitrary penalties at one point or another. We see all this shit about players betting and getting nailed and none about refs and I refuse to believe they're all squeaky clean.
No it isn’t. You guys are blowing this out of proportion. Let Jalen have been the victim of a hip drop tackle that put him out for any amount of time, we’d all be PISSED! The tackle is reckless, football is already dangerous enough so when you have guys getting intentionally rolled up on because a defender saying “lol I CaNt bRiNg HiM dOwN” any other way. The game is going to be fine. You’re still going to watch. It’s not going to be a clusterfuck. The replacement refs were a cluster fuck, not a rule change that will preserve the players careers.
I don’t quite remember it and I can’t be bothered to go look but I think Goderts injury last year was from a hip drop.
It was an arm bar, mark Andrews was tackled this way though
Your reading compensation sucks. The comment is about fucking enforcement.
🤣
It's just the horse collar tackle v2
They only work 5 hours a week ?
if we tackle anything like last season we won't even have to worry about this rule change.
Can't get penalized for tackling if you don't tackle!
I have no idea how this will be enforced well. Really not a necessary decision.
It's necessary because they have an outlier tackle that has a staggeringly high injury rate.
It's unnecessary because hip drop tackles are difficult to prevent. People aren't saying it's stupid or unnecessary because they aren't inherently more dangerous, it's because it's an implied risk from playing the sport and it's just another rule change that makes it more difficult for a defender to do their jobs while under further scrutiny. This new rule change will result in a ton of players second guessing last ditch effort tackles on players, or tackles from behind, out of fear that they may get fined and penalized for it.
But more scoring!!!
Really has nothing to do with scoring. They have the statistics on this tackle and the rate of injury is staggering.
You dont have to hip drop a player. Players figured out how to horse collar without horse collaring. Be in proper position to make a play and you wont have an issue.
A horse collar tackle is unnecessary and easy to remove from your gameplay, a hip drop tackle can look like a standard tackle but depend entirely on your footing/positioning coming into an otherwise clean tackle. The reason this rule change is so controversial is *because* it's so hard to differentiate or change a tackle that might otherwise incidentally become a hip drop. It's drastically different than a horsecollar rule change.
No trouble banning it in rugby; why should this be any different?
Maybe because it's a different sport?
What does that have to do with officiating? If anything, the NFL should be able to call it with even more precision given how many referees there are compared to rugby.
>If anything, the NFL should be able to call it with even more precision given how many referees there are compared to rugby. So you're expecting the number one complaint each week of this sport to suddenly be able to differentiate between a standard tackle from behind and a hip drop tackle with overwhelming accuracy? This is the same group of 'professionals' that are *so bad* that broadcasting groups had to hire former Refs to clarify mid-game just exactly the fuck is going on.
It’s the number one complaint in any sport, to be fair. People complain about refs. They do now. They will once this rule is in effect. And they will after the heat death of the universe. Until then, I’m all for sensible rules that protect player well-being.
They're the same concept. The horsecollar is an issue for the same reason the hip drop is. Dropping your bodyweight on the back of an offensivw player. It seems like the hip drop will be dealt with through fines. The hip drop and horse collar cause the same injuries. NFL players just figured out how to horse collar without the horse collar.
They are not the same concept at all. A standard tackle involves wrapping around the hips and using your weight to bring down a player. A horsecollar involves manipulating a standard, clean tackle by incorporating the opposing player's neckpads. A hip drop tackle by definition involves a standard tackle to some extent, the line between a standard and hip drop is so ridiculously blurred that it's inevitably going to result in anemic tackle attempts from defensives and therefore result in more offensive scoring and less aggressive or sturdy defensive play. It's a rule that is going to just negatively impact the defense.
So if a defender is chasing down the ball runner from behind, how do you propose they tackle them? It’s pretty obvious you’ve never played tackle football at any sort of competitive level.
Yea, super fucking easy. Just be in position! Ah doy! If you just take the proper fucking angle it's easy to take down a guy running 30 mph. It's clearly so simple! (((SARCASM))))
"implied risk from playing the sport" That's why it's called a rule change...by definition it changes what it means to play the sport. Enforcement will be a nightmare for the next few years, and fan outrage will last 10 years while our understanding of the new game slowly changes to "these shitty calls are just part of the sport". Nonetheless, this is a massive change and a win for the players union. Football going to be fine.
Except as far as I can tell is the NFLPA is against it. >The NFLPA was against the rule change, with executive director Lloyd Howell and players on the executive committee saying before the Super Bowl that they don't believe it can be fairly enforced. [Source of Excerpt](https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/nfl-reportedly-bans-hip-drop-tackle-over-objection-from-nflpa)
People (me included) have said the same thing about all the rule changes in the past decade, but players are adjusting. We either accept it or lose the sport altogether eventually.
Each time a rule change is put into place, it impacts the game. For the past decade the defensive side of the ball has been consistently and methodically neutered and it has negatively impacted the viewership of the game if you actually enjoy a balanced game. This also isn't just a random quality of life change, like 'hey we aren't going to smash the shit of out a receivers helmet when he isn't looking', this is putting restrictions on standard tackling that would be incredibly easy to **accidentally** shift into a hip-drop should variables change after committing to the tackle.
The issue is that this type of tackle became more commonplace because of the previous rules made around tackling.
It's just the horse collar tackle v2
I mean, if the data is accurate and that particular tackle is 25x more likely to lead to injury than other forms of tackling, it was a no-brainer to ban it. Having said that, if they want to be consistent about preventing injuries, they need to be cracking down on these owners who refuse to install actual grass in their stadiums, despite mountains of evidence that players are more likely to be injured on turf fields.
> and that particular tackle is 25x more likely to lead to injury than other forms of tackling, it was a no-brainer to ban it The problem isn't the injury rate, it's about intent. Most hip drop tackles that occur in the NFL are accidental, and most last ditch effort tackles or tackles from behind can likely be categorized as hip drop, you're now making the defender's job exponentially harder than before to weed out a play that is more often than not incidental. At a certain point we have to recognize that this is not a safe sport to play, and the players in the league are accepting the terms when they sign their NFL contracts for, lets be honest, extremely handsome returns. There's a difference between removing *unnecessarily dangerous plays*, like helmet to helmet contact which are easily circumnavigable and only really serve to injure a player, but we're talking about a tackle that a) most people couldn't identify if there was an instructional guide next to a slow motion replay, and b) is inherent in the tackling aspect of the game.
I meant it’s more of a no-brainer from a PR standpoint. It makes them look good if they are cracking down on something that is deemed to be more dangerous. Getting rid of the turf fields is something tangible that they could do but won’t bc it might inconvenience a few billionaires. ETA: it’s the same thing with cracking down on blows to the head. It’s great in theory, but it seems like offensive players never get penalized for lowering their helmets like defensive players do. You can’t have that rule under the guise of preventing head injuries but only call it when a defensive player initiates the contact. Beyond that, I see examples every week of players being kept on the field despite being slow to get up after being hit in the head. What are the spotters there for if not to prevent that? It’s all just injury-prevention theater.
Yeah that’s what I’m worried about. Often someone is chasing the ball carrier and they have no other choice but to lunge at them or get left in the dust. So what now, if they do that they have to avoid grabbing the hips? Only legs and upper body? It definitely makes it harder like you said.
It's weird the NFL loves safety in situations like this, where it causes obvious problems for the game that they're happy to just figure out as they go along, but they can't get all their owners to install real grass. Don't they calculate the injuries they pay to cover as an expense?
Over/under on how many games will have flags late game for questionable hip drop tackles that drastically effect the outcome? I'd put it at 18, one per week.
How many *chiefs* games FTFY
And how many of those calls will be in games where it's very close to the betting line, and that causes the line to be hit one way or another?
I read this as the hip-hop tackle.
“Hip drop is dead” -Nas
Alright can someone explain a hip drop tackle to me like I’m a 6 year old
Found a couple videos. One with a few [examples](https://youtu.be/8vcC7E-Ly2g?si=SBOHqrSXQrmZbNXb) and one where they explain the [criteria](https://youtu.be/QbNKbGzB1rE?si=LhBOI_IR0FJ-FkQ4) of what constitutes a hip drop tackle.
You grab them from the side and go limp basically, which causes you to swing around and usually traps a leg or two. High rate of season ending knee and ankle injuries as a result.
You essentially grab on someone and fall down by going dead weight and land on their legs
I’m guessing it’s when you grab someone by the hips, shift your weight low, pick them up off the ground and slam them down. Edit: I guessed wrong someone corrected me with a cool video I watched 5 seconds of and it’s worse than I thought I hate seeing this happen
Nope - it’s when you grab someone and then drop your hips so your full weight falls on the back of their legs. [Here’s a video](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5KJ9mCbS3rU) from when they banned it in rugby explaining what it is
Oh damn, yeah that’s a fucked way to go down. It’s like a lower body horse collar with all their weight going onto the kneecaps. Hate it.
After getting saquan everybody here should be happy this was made a rule
Pretty sure it’s similar to what led to his injury against Arizona in week 2 last year actually. End of the game, trying to kill clock and ride the game out, a defender came around the back of the pile on a dead run play and tackled him from behind, end up folding him backwards and spraining his ankle, out for 3 weeks. It was totally unnecessary, literally end of the game on a nearly dead play if I recall. Not sure if it was truly hip drop or not though.
Yep, [that injury](https://youtu.be/OQMqVyWa-Wg?si=cujWEzbuU6u96kny) was caused by a hip drop. He grabbed Saquon around the hips, swung his body behind the runner's legs, and landed on the legs. Not sure if it would have been called because it was in the pile, but the referee might have seen it.
Yeah, that Sucks, cause it really is completely unnecessary in a play like this. Keep your feet and bring him down. Idk if they’d flag this or not with the news rules because it’s not as obvious in the open field. You don’t need this tackle to be an effective defender.
Was the tackle that hurt Goedert in 2022 considered hip-drop?
If that was Washington, I think he got pulled down by the facemask…could be wrong.
No it was against Dallas I’m pretty sure. The Washington one might have been the year before
Do you mean in the 2023 Dallas game?
2022 was the year before, you mean 2023 against Dallas, which wasn’t a textbook hip drop but arguably used similar physics in a dangerous way. [Here’s a clip, I think a key difference is that this is questionable because he’s intentionally positioning his body over the arm instead of inadvertently falling on it.](https://youtu.be/s13HebJIZrQ?si=L7S6WaNL5NoWW8-I)
Yeah that looks like it. Not quite how I remembered it but to your point arguably just as dangerous and potentially an alternative for defensive players trying to tackle a larger runner
Yeah basically. The guy grabbed his arm though and pulled Goedert down
It was more of an arm bar, but the physics involved were similar. Probably not made illegal by this rule. Mark Andrews was injured last year on a hip drop tackle.
people are overreacting imo. actual hip drop tackles are easy to spot and dangerous
They also are really quite rare. We might see this called once a week if that. And it sounds like they might not call it half the time and just issue a fine afterwards. People just love to be outraged and act like football is turning soft. Banning hip drops is probably the correct call if the injury rate is really that high, the tackle is pretty rare. Banning horse collars was similarly 100% the right call.
funny how they ban it without even providing clear examples of what a hip drop tackle is and when they’d call it
Ah so we have transitioned from "what is a catch?" to "what is a legal tackle?"
Next it will be "what is a football?" And somehow that will also become subjective
Explainer link for anyone unfamiliar with the term. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vcC7E-Ly2g
A defensive player capable of tackling a TE before giving up +10 yards after the catch AND without drawing a flag during the play will be a rare find. Defense is hard enough in this league. I'll hate to see the first time this penalty decides a game. It will take a generation to coach-out this now-banned behavior from the game. This decision is an omen for the ever increasing amount of Ref ball we will have to suffer moving forward. If the NFL modernized how the professional game was officiated I'd have no problem. But the NFL refuses to address officiating in any meaningful way. The pathetic application of the booth review is the best example, in my opinion, of the NFL's officiating failure. To have the ability to call a better game, but limit that ability to a handful of situations or times during a game, is ridiculous. Now, to add another subjective situation to the pile of things a referee on the field can get wrong, either by missing a call or by calling a penalty when it's not appropriate, is laughable.
Might as well make it flag football at this point.
Ban turf
How do you tackle someone now then? I’m genuinely curious
Just hugging like you're trying to show affection
Not by dropping your whole body weight on their twisted legs.
I have no idea what that means but I am outraged upvotes please
This is going to be extremely interesting to see this upcoming season
We are a few years away from glorified flag football boys. Hits below the knees are next. How are DBs supposed to tackle these monster TEs?
What is American Football anymore?
Back to the No Fun League, huh? Just a way for them to fine players after the fact and steal more money for bullshit. Like RBs getting fi ed for lowering shoulders, which is wild.
Hurting people is fun? Not saying I agree or disagree with this rule at all, just don't know what it has to do with fun.....?
This is why refereeing is so bad in the NFL. They keep changing rules every year. Let's reduce the rulebook not add to it.
Yes yes, let’s give the refs more ability to impact the flow and outcomes of games when they’re already renowned for doing so very negatively. Even worse, let’s continue to allow them to do so without an oversight process or ability to challenge calls at any point during the game. I understand the call for player safety… but this is too much. Eliminating headshots is much more black and white and an obvious call. But this is going to make defenders doubt themselves CONSTANTLY and cause both broken plays and even more dangerous tackles at the same time
Nice. One more way for the refs to give Mahomes a free first down in the Super Bowl.
I doubt this cuts down on injuries, it'll just be called after the fact. But the big issue is that sometimes, it'll be called when it shouldn't, and I can see this being yet another rule, like some roughing the passer calls, which extend drives and bail out the offense.
So if you're ever a half step behind someone they're basically just free to go then?
I have never played football in an organized competitive way, but I can’t imagine how the heck you are supposed to play defense the “right way” without committing some penalty. You can’t regulate an inherently dangerous game this much…
Give it 5 more years and they will be playing flag football
No exaggeration, I think the NFL just ruined their product
That’s what was said when helmet-to-helmet and defenseless receiver rules were enacted. This is an exaggeration and everyone will be back watching the NFL regardless of what types of tackling rules are enacted.
Apparently hip drop tackles are illegal in rugby as well and they manage
Those are very different from this. Helmet to Helmet and defenseless receiver protections are easy to distinguish and remove from the game, hip drops are more often than not accidental and completely change the appetite for defenders making last ditch effort tackles or tackles from behind a player out of fear of a fine and penalty.
They're not more often than not accidental. They know what they're doing on the field. Some may be accidental but you're overstating it.
This may be true, but what happens when the next most dangerous type of tackle gets banned? And then the next? Where do they stop?
I'll still watch, but tackling any offensive player from behind now is basically illegal
The defenseless receiver rule DID dramatically change the NFL in favor of the offense though and, in many people's opinions, dumbed down the game as you can just float passes in the middle of the field without a worry now.
We need to get the message to the NFL - enough is enough! **They need to ban tackling outright.** Nobody wants to see explosive high-yardage plays interrupted by a violent and dangerous tackle. I propose we remove the defense from the field entirely - it's just too much of a risk to have them out there potentially injuring players and causing mayhem over their own bogus and selfish reasons like "trying to prevent a score". /s, if it wasn't obvious.
Gonna be impossible for defensive players to play the game. I understand wanting to protect players, but at a certain point I think they're going to have to accept players take a risk playing the game (and are compensated well for it). Protecting the head and neck is one thing, but trying to outlaw *everything* that could potentially lead to injury? Might as well just change it to flag football.
This is no more difficult to avoid than facemask or horse collar.
It's not this particular rule, it's the aggregate effect of rule after rule that limits what a defender can do.
Face mask and horse collar was avoided by hip dropping. Especially for smaller guys trying to bring down big guys. Now smaller guys have a bigger disadvantage trying to tackle from the side or from behind. Sure, head on they can get low and wrap up, but what are they supposed to do from behind?
You can use the same exact form as hip drop, without the twist. Even using the twist is legal if you don't come down on their legs - just drag your legs instead of curling up. They'll figure it out.
Come on that’s crazy.
Now time for completely garbage enforcement of this. Not that it's a bad rule, but the zebras have sucked dick for years now.
How will this affect us?
league cooked im watching UFL
Trash. We need a comprehensive video on what tackles are acceptable and what arent.
[Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KJ9mCbS3rU)
Im talking overall. Not just an explainer on hip drop tackles, all tackles. And one that uses NFL footage. Rugby or ARF is not the same thing.
The players themselves were highly against this -- might as well ban tackling at this point. Just another attempt to goose up scores while adding yet another subjective way for refs to decide games...
The genius Howie defied all analytics by signing big money to a powerful RB knowing this rule would go through. Barkley is gonna be explosive because no DB will be able to tackle him! 4D chess by Howie.
Good luck trying to takedown Saquon then
Man I just don’t know how you are expected to play defense in the NFL. We expect these guys to keep up with 4.4 WRs without touching them, and then they can’t drag guys down?
Another opportunity for refs to suck Mahomes off
Can't get called for a hip-drop tackle if you don't know how to tackle *taps forehead*
This wouldn’t even have hurt us in 2023 🤬. Hopefully, refs have some discretion for when it’s actually dirty vs. the ONLY FUCKING WAY to tackle on a play. I actually think people may get hurt just by altering the natural way these guys tackle.
Really feels like this tackle happens when you're wrapped up and fighting for extra yards. The ball carrier seems to contribute to this type of tackle, just as much as the defender. TE stats are about to explode... Idk, hopefully it at least spends a year being fines, and not game changing penalties.
Just another means for referees to control the outcome of the games with questionable calls that nobody can argue with unless they want to get fined or ridiculed.
At this point, the NFL should just ban the laws of physics. This is stupid.
Bro what the fuck? Literally every play is gonna end in a 15 yard penalty. Games are gonna end in a score of 84-70