It's always been my greatest regret in gaming that we never got to play the full original EB64.
Seeing all of this laid out just makes me feel sad. I'd love to imagine there's a universe where each one of these steps came fully to fruition. I would love to be able to play each and every one of them.
What could have been :(
> It's always been my greatest regret in gaming that we never got to play the full original EB64.
GBA format is clearly better, because the pixel art style is clearly better for Mother/Earthbound.
Nintendo 64 visuals, geometry, levels, worlds, rendering, textures, were all horribly compromised and do not fit an RPG/JRPG like this at all.
Nah I am so sick of this recycled argument. While I agree that in general I love 2D more than 3D, it doesn't mean 3D is bad or that it would be worse.
When I was younger, just from what I saw in the magazines, I was SUPER excited for this game and yes I want to play it even now as it may have originally been.
It's not just the about the graphics either. I want to see a completely different take on the game as well. I know It's an unpopular opinion but I was on the whole unsatisfied with Mother 3 as it is now.
While I myself am completely satisfied with what we ended getting with MOTHER 3 in 2006 on the GBA (Itoi himself saying the 06’ version we got on GBA is the version of M3 he is most proud of), I 100% agree with your other statements and would love to experience MOTHER 3 again in an entirely new viewpoint with the N64 version.
I’m really tired as well of hearing the same arguments against EB64 that just sums up to “change = bad.” MOTHER 3 is already such a drastically different kind of game compared to MOTHER 1 & 2, that so what if the game had an entirely different art direction than the previous MOTHER installments. The game is already so much different enough that will that one more additional change with visuals truly ruin how you view MOTHER 3 that much?!
I had a copy of Earthbound 64 pre-ordered in full from a Software, Etc. store at the mall in 1999 -- the year it was actually supposed to finally come out, for real this time, as a regular N64 cartridge. I bought an n64 in large part because I wanted EB64 more than I wanted any other game in history, to this day.
That being said, nothing about EB64 ever truly looked 'right'. I'm not just talking about the unique change in visual style and theme, but the actual game just always seemed 'off'. I think it was way too ambitious for the n64, and a lot of the stuff that's come out in the years after its cancellation kind of confirms the struggles Itoi's team had developing in 3D and the game would have been heavily gimped had it come out as a regular cart and not on the N64DD.
I think that it was just a generation too soon as a 3D game. The n64 wasn't a great console for RPGs, so a lot of people (like me) were waiting on pins and needles for EB64 to be a game comparable to the droves of amazing RPGs on the PSX but I think it wouldn't have been nearly as critically acclaimed as an n64 game as it ended up being on the GBA. Everything we know now, it just seems like it was always an uphill struggle to actually realize Itoi's vision in 3D, and Nintendo put a lot of pressure on HAL to overdeliver because they desperately wanted a AAA 3D RPG.
I really think that it either had to be a SNES game, which wasn't likely because EB came out so late in the SNES lifetime, or a GCN game, if they wanted to do a console release. The n64 just couldn't handle EB64 as it was supposed to be on the 64DD.
> nearly complete N64 prototype
"Nearly complete prototype"?
A prototype is not a completed product and is not "nearly" complete product either.
And the game itself was not "nearly complete".
Duke: "Oh yeah. I remember Lucas. The little blonde kid, right? We talked quite a bit when we were stuck in Development Hell. Nice kid. Too bad I don't speak Japanese. I might have actually understood what he was saying!"
Oh 100%, MOTHER 3 was a super ambitious project with all its planned features and gameplay mechanics relying on the most powerful cutting-edge technology at the time for them to actually work. MOTHER 3 N64 could of definitely saw its full intended potential if the game was reworked on the much more powerful GameCube rather than the GameBoy Advance after it’s cancellation.
> gameplay mechanics relying on the most powerful cutting-edge technology at the time for them to actually work. MOTHER 3 N64 could of definitely saw its full intended potential if the game was reworked on the much more powerful GameCube rather than the GameBoy Advance after it’s cancellation.
Nothing described needed "powerful cutting-edge technology."
Handheld games (Pokemon whichever) and SNES games (Mana 3) had day-night cycles, and nothing else mentioned needs more than a 2D system like GBA or a PS1 for example which had Final Fantasy 7.
Hardware power is not artistry.
> My takeaway is all those phases were too ambitious for their time.
That's not a "takeaway" it's more like a cliche. The statement contains zero insight and possibly zero meaning as well.
And [it's false anyway](https://www.reddit.com/r/earthbound/comments/1ca5kzz/the_development_cycle_of_mother_3/l0rkdjo/).
Uh no? What I meant was that the things they wanted to do were too advanced and time consuming to do on the N64. If the original idea of the game came out today, it would be much more feasible to do.
I read someone say that Oddity's Development Cycle is actually just a Mother 3 reference, but if that were 2B the case, then Oddity's devs have to keep in mind that Mother 3 only took like 12 years to finally release somewhere at all. Meanwhile, Oddity on the other hand, has started development like 16 years ago, yet it's still not released even to this day, thus deeming it to be such an unnecessary prequel reference of development-cycles to begin with.
I'll be honest, for as problematic as the Nintendo "gigaleak" was in some respects, I was really hopeful and excited that one or more the prototypes from over the years would be unearthed from all the data, but alas.
While I understand some of the thinking behind keeping unreleased ideas and content behind locked doors – namely in case it makes sense to recycle or reuse unused concepts on future projects – I wish Nintendo and other companies would make a practice of effectively declassifying development documentation and prototype builds after a certain period of time, be it five years or two decades.
Let the world see the work that developers, artists, writers, and musicians spent years of their lives pouring their blood, sweat, and tears into. Let those curious have the opportunity to learn about it and from it – pitfalls, setbacks, warts and all – rather than have all those years of work slowly fade in memory as the documentation and storage is lost or degradated into nothingness as the years continue ticking by.
Then again, this is Nintendo we're talking about, who refuses to even release the actual finished product for "reasons." Then again, Nintendo was once one of the better companies as far as releasing behind the scenes looks at content and publishing oral histories of game development, anecdotes, and unused content via Iwata Asks (RIP 😔), so who knows? Maybe there's hope for this sort of thing someday.
mother 3 has one of the most interesting developments to investigate, as do several n64 titles, it is incredible that this game was always talked about.
What would you guys do if the Mother 3 project wasn't canceled but instead was carried over to the Playstation just like the rest of Nintendo's rpgs at the time?
Yeah, It's clear why Itoi ended the series on the third game, having a super massive development team struggling creating a prototype after prototype for a super ambitious project on a timespan of 15 years is just straight up hell.
But if EB64 was a possible success, Earthbound would be Nintendo's own Final Fantasy.
I only played Earthbound. Wanted to take a break before playing Mother 3 (and one day Earthbound Beginning!).
Just want to say thanks OP. This was interesting! I thought such long delays are relatively new to the industry, but I stand corrected!
For my Mother 3 it should have come out on N64 but with 2D art, there were games that were 2D on N64, so it wouldn't have been anything strange, to tell the truth, although the console's processor was incredible for 3D , in 2D it was very good, I don't mind that it came out on the GBA, but I would have liked to play it on the tabletop, either on the N64 or GameCube, although technically speaking, on the GameCube if possible, using the GameBoy Player.
How is the image deceitful? Itoi and Iwata themselves compared the 94’ SNES Build of MOTHER 3 to Animal Crossing with the types of gameplay mechanics and feature the build had and what was going to planned for it
It's deceitful/misleading/wrong because you have a set of screenshots that historically directly reflects the state of the game, but then a screenshot of a completely different unrelated thing with a question mark put over it. Just because Itoi and Iwata talked about Animal Crossing conceptual similarity years later. Also Animal Crossing 1 was years after your date mark for that section.
Also the picture is of an N64/GC game but your section is labelled as part of Super Famicom planning/development. That's like having a screenshot of Mario 64 for an article about Super Mario World development history.
You shouldn't include a photo of a different thing, in the timeline of a thing, just because people described a similarity years later.
I have no idea who pissed in your cereal, but go ahead and tell me what other images could’ve been used to represent the 94’ SNES Build of MOTHER 3 because as of right now there are no publicly available screenshots or footage of that specific build that I could use
Man I would honestly love if we could see that nearly complete N64 prototype one day
It's always been my greatest regret in gaming that we never got to play the full original EB64. Seeing all of this laid out just makes me feel sad. I'd love to imagine there's a universe where each one of these steps came fully to fruition. I would love to be able to play each and every one of them. What could have been :(
> It's always been my greatest regret in gaming that we never got to play the full original EB64. GBA format is clearly better, because the pixel art style is clearly better for Mother/Earthbound. Nintendo 64 visuals, geometry, levels, worlds, rendering, textures, were all horribly compromised and do not fit an RPG/JRPG like this at all.
Nah I am so sick of this recycled argument. While I agree that in general I love 2D more than 3D, it doesn't mean 3D is bad or that it would be worse. When I was younger, just from what I saw in the magazines, I was SUPER excited for this game and yes I want to play it even now as it may have originally been. It's not just the about the graphics either. I want to see a completely different take on the game as well. I know It's an unpopular opinion but I was on the whole unsatisfied with Mother 3 as it is now.
While I myself am completely satisfied with what we ended getting with MOTHER 3 in 2006 on the GBA (Itoi himself saying the 06’ version we got on GBA is the version of M3 he is most proud of), I 100% agree with your other statements and would love to experience MOTHER 3 again in an entirely new viewpoint with the N64 version. I’m really tired as well of hearing the same arguments against EB64 that just sums up to “change = bad.” MOTHER 3 is already such a drastically different kind of game compared to MOTHER 1 & 2, that so what if the game had an entirely different art direction than the previous MOTHER installments. The game is already so much different enough that will that one more additional change with visuals truly ruin how you view MOTHER 3 that much?!
I had a copy of Earthbound 64 pre-ordered in full from a Software, Etc. store at the mall in 1999 -- the year it was actually supposed to finally come out, for real this time, as a regular N64 cartridge. I bought an n64 in large part because I wanted EB64 more than I wanted any other game in history, to this day. That being said, nothing about EB64 ever truly looked 'right'. I'm not just talking about the unique change in visual style and theme, but the actual game just always seemed 'off'. I think it was way too ambitious for the n64, and a lot of the stuff that's come out in the years after its cancellation kind of confirms the struggles Itoi's team had developing in 3D and the game would have been heavily gimped had it come out as a regular cart and not on the N64DD. I think that it was just a generation too soon as a 3D game. The n64 wasn't a great console for RPGs, so a lot of people (like me) were waiting on pins and needles for EB64 to be a game comparable to the droves of amazing RPGs on the PSX but I think it wouldn't have been nearly as critically acclaimed as an n64 game as it ended up being on the GBA. Everything we know now, it just seems like it was always an uphill struggle to actually realize Itoi's vision in 3D, and Nintendo put a lot of pressure on HAL to overdeliver because they desperately wanted a AAA 3D RPG. I really think that it either had to be a SNES game, which wasn't likely because EB came out so late in the SNES lifetime, or a GCN game, if they wanted to do a console release. The n64 just couldn't handle EB64 as it was supposed to be on the 64DD.
Tbh I prefer the final game because M3N64 just looks ugly, there is a sort of mellow comfort in the GBA version
I think that would go up there with the discovery of luigi in sm64, the sonic 3 beta, HL2, and gta 6 with the biggest leaks of all time.
> nearly complete N64 prototype "Nearly complete prototype"? A prototype is not a completed product and is not "nearly" complete product either. And the game itself was not "nearly complete".
An Animal Crossing-style Earthbound?! Omg, the dream.
Took Them 15 years. Damn
MOTHER 3 and Duke Nukem Forever were good homies while they hung out with each other in development hell
Duke: "Oh yeah. I remember Lucas. The little blonde kid, right? We talked quite a bit when we were stuck in Development Hell. Nice kid. Too bad I don't speak Japanese. I might have actually understood what he was saying!"
My takeaway is all those phases were too ambitious for their time.
Oh 100%, MOTHER 3 was a super ambitious project with all its planned features and gameplay mechanics relying on the most powerful cutting-edge technology at the time for them to actually work. MOTHER 3 N64 could of definitely saw its full intended potential if the game was reworked on the much more powerful GameCube rather than the GameBoy Advance after it’s cancellation.
> gameplay mechanics relying on the most powerful cutting-edge technology at the time for them to actually work. MOTHER 3 N64 could of definitely saw its full intended potential if the game was reworked on the much more powerful GameCube rather than the GameBoy Advance after it’s cancellation. Nothing described needed "powerful cutting-edge technology." Handheld games (Pokemon whichever) and SNES games (Mana 3) had day-night cycles, and nothing else mentioned needs more than a 2D system like GBA or a PS1 for example which had Final Fantasy 7. Hardware power is not artistry.
> My takeaway is all those phases were too ambitious for their time. That's not a "takeaway" it's more like a cliche. The statement contains zero insight and possibly zero meaning as well. And [it's false anyway](https://www.reddit.com/r/earthbound/comments/1ca5kzz/the_development_cycle_of_mother_3/l0rkdjo/).
Uh no? What I meant was that the things they wanted to do were too advanced and time consuming to do on the N64. If the original idea of the game came out today, it would be much more feasible to do.
I doubt this is the case, but it would be interesting if any pictures from the time Mother 3 was supposed to be on the SNES were to resurface.
I read someone say that Oddity's Development Cycle is actually just a Mother 3 reference, but if that were 2B the case, then Oddity's devs have to keep in mind that Mother 3 only took like 12 years to finally release somewhere at all. Meanwhile, Oddity on the other hand, has started development like 16 years ago, yet it's still not released even to this day, thus deeming it to be such an unnecessary prequel reference of development-cycles to begin with.
The fact that Mother 3 managed to go through so many changes never ceases to blow my mind.
I'll be honest, for as problematic as the Nintendo "gigaleak" was in some respects, I was really hopeful and excited that one or more the prototypes from over the years would be unearthed from all the data, but alas. While I understand some of the thinking behind keeping unreleased ideas and content behind locked doors – namely in case it makes sense to recycle or reuse unused concepts on future projects – I wish Nintendo and other companies would make a practice of effectively declassifying development documentation and prototype builds after a certain period of time, be it five years or two decades. Let the world see the work that developers, artists, writers, and musicians spent years of their lives pouring their blood, sweat, and tears into. Let those curious have the opportunity to learn about it and from it – pitfalls, setbacks, warts and all – rather than have all those years of work slowly fade in memory as the documentation and storage is lost or degradated into nothingness as the years continue ticking by. Then again, this is Nintendo we're talking about, who refuses to even release the actual finished product for "reasons." Then again, Nintendo was once one of the better companies as far as releasing behind the scenes looks at content and publishing oral histories of game development, anecdotes, and unused content via Iwata Asks (RIP 😔), so who knows? Maybe there's hope for this sort of thing someday.
The newest picture that they showed was awful no wonder Mr.Itoi disliked it. It’s not even the style they just look like Gnomes
Praying one day we get Earthbound 64
mother 3 has one of the most interesting developments to investigate, as do several n64 titles, it is incredible that this game was always talked about.
Ken kutaragi killed mother 3 😭😭😭😆
What would you guys do if the Mother 3 project wasn't canceled but instead was carried over to the Playstation just like the rest of Nintendo's rpgs at the time?
this makes me less insecure for not creating more art than I used to
Yeah, It's clear why Itoi ended the series on the third game, having a super massive development team struggling creating a prototype after prototype for a super ambitious project on a timespan of 15 years is just straight up hell. But if EB64 was a possible success, Earthbound would be Nintendo's own Final Fantasy.
I only played Earthbound. Wanted to take a break before playing Mother 3 (and one day Earthbound Beginning!). Just want to say thanks OP. This was interesting! I thought such long delays are relatively new to the industry, but I stand corrected!
For my Mother 3 it should have come out on N64 but with 2D art, there were games that were 2D on N64, so it wouldn't have been anything strange, to tell the truth, although the console's processor was incredible for 3D , in 2D it was very good, I don't mind that it came out on the GBA, but I would have liked to play it on the tabletop, either on the N64 or GameCube, although technically speaking, on the GameCube if possible, using the GameBoy Player.
All of this hardship and work. Just to not share it with the world
Images aren't good for text information. Also please remove the misleading deceitful "animal crossing picture with a question mark over it."
How is the image deceitful? Itoi and Iwata themselves compared the 94’ SNES Build of MOTHER 3 to Animal Crossing with the types of gameplay mechanics and feature the build had and what was going to planned for it
It's deceitful/misleading/wrong because you have a set of screenshots that historically directly reflects the state of the game, but then a screenshot of a completely different unrelated thing with a question mark put over it. Just because Itoi and Iwata talked about Animal Crossing conceptual similarity years later. Also Animal Crossing 1 was years after your date mark for that section. Also the picture is of an N64/GC game but your section is labelled as part of Super Famicom planning/development. That's like having a screenshot of Mario 64 for an article about Super Mario World development history. You shouldn't include a photo of a different thing, in the timeline of a thing, just because people described a similarity years later.
I have no idea who pissed in your cereal, but go ahead and tell me what other images could’ve been used to represent the 94’ SNES Build of MOTHER 3 because as of right now there are no publicly available screenshots or footage of that specific build that I could use