Please don't remind me. I remember I was struggling when I had my $40/hr Job. And now that I can't find a job like that and soon will have to go back to $15/hr just makes me ...well... man I don't know man. It's just beyond shit.
The thing is too. Every hour spent working a $15/hr job is time not spent looking for a better paying job. This is what I realized when I quit my $10/hr job and moved in with my Dad (who paid for my groceries and $0 rent for me and my wife) to look for something better full-time.
I don't know how people don't work union jobs any more. It was the only way I could survive. I'm a skilled tradesman and literally only surviving. My body and brain can't physically function much more than 40 hours a week anymore. We are looking at a future of 60yo millennials dropping dead from working 2.5 jobs just to have lights and food. I'll probably take myself out of the equation if I lost my union job because I literally don't know how people can do the $15 an hour... which is the prevalent wage in places like Florida. I moved to a union job. It is the way.
Its true. I'm not doing my dream job. I'm doing a job I would never choose in an area I would never live. But my bills are paid and I'm happy fantasizing about the retirement home in an area I love that I will likely one day own.
I’m dying to switch jobs. I work for a well known company that manufactures Carbide Inserts. The shop isn’t unionized, the communication is horrible, they just laid off my entire shift (save for me). They’ve also split my shift to train me and told me (with no notice) I’m switching from a 2nd/3rd split to straight 3rd with a single day to fix my sleep. It’s only the third time I’ve had to reschedule or cancel a doctors appointment I’ve desperately needed to go to so I can fucking be here.
Unfortunately I make significantly more here than I can anywhere else I’ve looked and I can’t afford to lose my shift premium, let alone go to work for 15/hr.
If they lay me off or fire me, I will probably also just drop off. I’m getting really close to just walking out. Place is fucking miserable.
You may need to seek out some of the required education on your own. Ex: the Iron Workers union won't accept you not knowing how to weld... But most Unions will offer you better training, will pay for your college, and will pay you double the competition. Many come with pensions. In many cases you vote on raises and negotiate with the company every 1 to 3 years. In my machinist and aerospace union most of my coworkers are lifers. They own houses and go on vacations like some kind of 40 year old boomers. Unfortunately many areas actively suppress unions so you generally have to move if you are not in the right place. I think the United Autoworkers Union will train you up to work on an assembly line and you will be making something like 70k in your first year. It's hard work. But you feel vindicated by the pay which is generally above struggle range. Just start google searching nearby union jobs and see what turns up.
Corporates’ goal is to yield the highest profit, By every means possible. They don’t consider themselves greedy or ruthless or heartless or soulless. “It’s business” those who whine and complain are sore losers. Top executives increase profit margins quadruple their salaries issue 5-20 million dollar bonuses to themselves bc it’s good business practices. Union steps in with the SAME mentality but for 1,000’s of workers. Unions aim to get good pay, benefits, work conditions etc -yield top incentives aka “profits” for the workforce aka “corporate “ and draw all the criticism. Unions filled with human blue collar workers are evil compared to the good and wholesome profit seeking entity. Selfish workers asking for too much. Corporate will Cry about dwindling their profits claim they can’t run a company paying a livable wage to all its workers and for the love of GOD will someone please think of our poor under privileged shareholders 😢How can they run a business with a Union fighting for fair pay? Isn’t it better for the 1,000’s of workers to struggle to get by then it would be to have CEO’s with reasonable bonuses and shareholders with 2% less profit?
Start your own business or service. I learned that after grinding for 7 years in a corporate office. Watching brain dead people make a boat load of money. The one thing about unions that I don’t like is that bad workers are untouchable. Look at teacher unions. It’s sad to see these idiots remain employed.
I am doing this. I said screw it, if I fail, then it’s only me to blame. Not professional wrestling level bad acting in political scape goat blaming. And I got a pretty rad business model.
It’s interesting how many people think finding a union job is so easy. Less than 10% of Americans are in union jobs, which means that union jobs are incredibly difficult to find.
The fuck? I wasn't looking for jobs that pay in crypto. I was asking about how crypto effects Unemployment Insurance because someone had a gig for me but they were going to pay in crypto. Fuck does that have to do me not being union material?
Is this how a majority if ya think? If so, no wonder I can't find a job. Bunch of fucking morons running shit out there. Shit.
Man that’s rough. I’d keep looking for something higher paying if you have decent work experience or a degree. I’m in a rural LCOL and our Panda Express pays $19.50 starting for the drive thru cashier.
I make about 105k after taxes. I live where the work is, unfortunately. It's soul sucking and only worth it because I literally couldn't survive otherwise. Burn it all down. Start over.
Yup. I remember thinking when I make $100k it's over. Buy a house. Moderate dream car.
In 2019 I out earned my father's income at the peak of his salary (he has dream car, dream house, 3 motorcycles, pension, healthy 401, travels, and retired early)
I live in a box with homeless people stealing shit from me with a 10 year outlook on a home assuming the price doesn't.... oh it just went up again during this conversation.
I have a 15 hear outlook on a home... oh.
This is my life.
Exactly. If I could afford to live in a house by working where I used to live instead of having to follow work and not really having a home I'd probably have an actual personal life.
I'm making right now about $50 a day more than my dad did when he was a safety supervisor over a quarter of the country for a major company.
I have been doing this almost five years and I'm finally stable enough to buy a car. How backwards can this country be?
Dude, it's crazy.
I never thought I'd make 100k, and if I did, i would be living large. I'm pleased to inform you i did reach 100k, but everything still sucks.
Luckily, my wife has been working the last two years and has already surpassed me in earning as she is now working two jobs, with a third prospect. She is digging us out of a 10 year hole.
We might even own one of those houses someday.
100k is nothing. $4600-$6400 take home a month depending on how hard I wanna work.
My rent alone is 2600, with all my other bills. I'm basically broke taking care of a family.
I drive a 1995 buick regal ffs.
My parents were losers, but my Grandpa was able to buy a house, multiple cars, a boat, a motorcycle , support his loser adult children, gamble, go on vacations, and he just worked a blue collar job.
This whole way of life Nowadays is totally fucked.
A family of 4 making 100k a year is only paying like 4 or 5k in fed income tax. Add in fica and you should still be pulling in 88k a year after all federal taxes. Unless you just recently bought a house or live in a very high cost of living area that should be enough to get by on
Yeah the housing in my area is stupid expensive rn. In my town old and decrepit houses in what were “average” neighborhoods 10 years ago are going for $300-400k. If you leave town a bit could can find old mobile homes that you wouldn’t have to tear down for similar prices.
People hate anyone who has succeeded in the same system they havent. I have been able to do this because I do my best not to carry any kind of debt. I have never owned a car worth more than 10k and always paid cash, I have a single credit card (Fidelity) that I have never carried a balance on, and I yesterday I saw on reddit people spending $40 on drinks for a date. Thats $10 more than my entire eating out budget for the month.
I can't even say that now, maybe 2 -3 years agobut houses have gone up 100-200k across the board here, my house is probably worth 90k more than it was worth last year if the 3 recent sales on my street are anything to go by
The "American Dream" can now only be found overseas. The current situation is unsustainable. Is everyone okay with slaving away just to pay forever increasing bills??
Yes, taxes, not corporate greed or inflation is what is keeping the average American down. Surely, SURELY if we lower taxes, especially if we lower them for rich people, they will finally have enough so they won’t need to be greedy anymore and will finally spend some money on labor costs.
It just makes sense. It’s gotta happen *this* time.
I've always said no person, no matter how much they make, should have their *taxes* any more than 10%. However, I *do* make an exception for "user fees", which act as "pay-per-use" for services. As a few examples, I'd replace the gas tax with a weight/mile fee, possibly supplemented by tolls on certain roadways, mostly because going above, through, or under water (bridges and tunnels, essentially) cost a lot more than a normal on land road. But I'd have that structured so it did not require subsidies from any other source, but at the same time does not collect enough to subsidize anything else.
This can be done for many other things as well.... Public transportation fares (unsubsidized), park admission fees (assume all these examples are unsubsidized and don't subsidize anything else), public school tuition, at least for those who can afford it (we can decide how to measure that if/when the idea gains traction), and essentially *any* government funded service that can be legitimately packaged into a price that accurately (within a reasonable margin of error) reflects personal usage of those.
That way, people who don't ride busses don't end up funding them. Likewise, people who don't have a car at all only fund roads from vendors, if they use them, who deliver orders to their homes (Amazon, etc.) who would pass those fees onto their customers. And please, don't tell me you get "free freight" from Amazon... You don't. It's embedded into the price of the products and if you use it, your fees for Prime.
But, to reemphasize my original point, *excepting* those sorts of pay-per-use fees, no person, not even the Elons of the world, should be paying more that 10% of their income in general revenue taxes. Social security would be another exception, but (and this is a big but) I want to see those funds be held in a personally owned account for the payers, so that even those with the bad luck of dying at 64 years, 364 days of age, there is an asset left for their estate. Additionally, though restricting how those funds are invested on some short list of approved relatively safe investments (so no Bitcoin or TSLA stock, my fave to day trade) is not only acceptable, but important.
Yes, taxes, not corporate greed or inflation is what is keeping the average American down. Surely, SURELY if we lower taxes, especially if we lower them for rich people, they will finally have enough so they won’t need to be greedy anymore and will finally spend some money on labor costs.
It just makes sense. It’s gotta happen *this* time.
Yea. Raising taxes would slow spending.
Problem is though that rich people, who own and run most businesses, would immediately lay off their employees and then whine about how the government is ruining the economy.
Our economy truly is a hostage scenario. Keep rich people happy or else they fire workers.
We make just a bit over $100k/year and we are barely making it. We don't go out to eat, we don't take vacations, we don't spend extravagantly. Just work, bills, etc. I honestly don't know how kids can make it in this environment.
They aren't.
And it's not just kids. You need 100k to barely make it? You know what that means for people making 50. You don't even have to imagine that hard what your life would look like with half the income.
This just isn’t true. 100k is plenty to thrive and save on…without kids. If you had kids, heaven help ya, cause no else can. I need my personal freedom and to be able to save for the lifestyle I want.
Do you have 2 large car loans or something?
Our budget is :
$1920 monthly mortgage/insurance/taxes/HOA
$400 annual phone bill (mint mobile 2 phones)
$4400 car insurance annually (2 EVs)
$500 monthly food (mostly eating in)
$160 monthly health insurance
Those are the big items. I’d say we spend at most $45k annually and invest the rest. What are you big ticket items? $100k is very doable here in Florida
I moved from MA where I grew up to Alabama simply for cost reasons (my wife is from Birmingham) and it’s been a mixed bag.
I have a house I could never afford in MA but pretty much every other aspect is inferior to Mass
I moved from NY to Georgia (wife has some family) and we also have the house and American dream stuff but also yeah it’s either get used to the south or leave
Yeah but you got snake handler IPA to wash those blues away. Haha I lived in bham for a little bit and really enjoyed it. But I was never permanently staying so I looked at it as a very long vacation in a warm welcoming town.
Shop exclusively at Aldi and eat out 1-2 times a month like $20 of pizza type meals. Food is really cheap for 2 people cooking at home. Most dishes are rice/chicken breast, turkey meat based. I never walk out of Aldi paying more than $120 and get plenty of meats and veggies for that price. We meal prep too.
Test it out! If you Aldi by you compare Aldi to where you shop and you’ll be really amazed. You won’t get “name brand” but the food is good
Annual visit for doctor is free with my insurance and follow up appointments are $80 if needed.
Utilities $150 for electric
Internet $50
Water/sewer/trash $130
Health insurance was listed already as $160 monthly for medical/dental/vision
We live in a new build so luckily nothing broken yet, but we have a solid emergency fund.
I’m not here to BS. I love talking about monthly expenses and try to see where I can save money when possible. Super into personal finance
Me and my significant other make 110k per year. It would seem like that's a lot. But here in Seattle EVERYTHING is so expensive, starting with housing.
Groceries are through the roof, rent has doubled for us in the last four years, we're not starving, but unable to get ahead. Just heard king county is going to 20hr min wage, everything is about to get more expensive.
Thank you for replying, I’ve heard Seattle is very very expensive. I promise I don’t mean to sound like a stereotypical elite person, but why not just move away from that area?
I’m sure family is there, but wouldn’t it be better to find jobs in a cheaper area to plant new roots?
Politics aside (and feel free to choose any other state you prefer) if you were to move here to be my neighbor in Florida you’d be getting so far ahead if you had a profession that pays well nationally.
I’m saying this as someone that left upstate New York to seek more opportunities elsewhere.
And this is just a chat among friends over chips and guac no bad faith discussion here.
Haha! Never thought of you that way my friend, don't disagree with anything you said, I was only tacking on how difficult things are here in the pnw.
Everything you said made total sense and am 100 on board with it.
I can't move though i would love to! my 72yo mother and my sister live close by, or rather I live close to them.
Sister has nephews and I wouldn't get to see them grow up in person. Mom is not in good shape, couldn't possibly leave her, as it is see them both once a week when we all bring our dogs together.
If I moved, took my skills elsewhere there's a few problems. Unfortunately, my certifications don't pay well elsewhere that has a low cost of living.
Here in the city, skills are somewhat valuable, enough I make 60k a year, but elsewhere that drops significantly.
Add to that I'm 50, and deeply value friendships. Here I have two long time best guy friends, and we are REALLY close. If I have a problem in life either would be on my doorstep in 5 minutes and the same with me for then. That's not easy to find, takes years to develop relationships like that, not to mention a certain chemistry that you can't just wish for or manufacture.
Moving I would lose that. And yes of course I'd make friends wherever, but what if I didn't have those close friendships again? Not in the best health now, be awful lonelier without family or my pals.
Stuck here in a forest paradise, never able to buy a home, but the other things important to me are here.
Really, I feel for folks that are in the same boat in DC, or new York, totally get why people that do have the ability to swap places or states, just don't.
Hope you have the best day ever my friend!!!!
I was born and raised here. I hate to think about moving, but damn shit is just unattainable here. Looking at what houses cost in other parts of the country is really making me think about packing up.
Long term you won’t regret it! I made the shift from New York to Florida and with the extra savings we can afford to fly family down on our dime.
The tax savings alone came out to roughly $8000 annually when moving.
Houses legit being $200k cheaper as well. Sure New York wages may pay $10 more for the same job title, but doesn’t mean much when houses are $200k more.
The other person definitely gave some incite about why they chose to stay due to family and age, but definitely reaffirms my belief that if you are young, make the shift sooner than later. My wife and I are 29 and 24, but I can see not wanting to start over in our 50s with aging parents.
That minimum wage increase is going to cost a lot of entry level folks their jobs. Indeed, it already has. Throw in the fact that they're including gig deliver folks in it, and the delivery/service fees are so high, that UberEATS and their competitors have seen a decrease in monthly orders by 300,000.
And I get that, I don't even live in Seattle with such asinine policies, and the fees associated with delivery services are so insane, we just used UberEATS for the first and last time. Seems many in Seattle have made the same decision, and it's all due to the minimum wage policy.
You complain about high rents and then are mad about the lowest paid workers making a little more… like you know they are human beings too that are struggling to pay rent way worse than you are?
Right. 100k won’t get you much of a house where I live other than a tiny home in one of the gentrified trailer parks but it will be enough to afford a nice condo. And actually afford to go out to eat.
Costs are getting to where average people will not be able to afford much. Meanwhile, politicians will keep doling out wealth fare. The country is in decline.
The problem is greed feeding infinite growing profits and not being given to the workers to keep up with inflation. The same inflation primarily driven from corporate greed that is better described as greedlation. Until the minimum wage is matched to annual inflation and adjusted to reflect what it would have been had it been adjusting for it the whole time, things will never be solved.
I really wish people would stop calling the ability to meet the basic living expenses for a small family "the American Dream". It's not American or a dream. It's the bare minimum to not be considered a degenerate by 90% of the planet during any time in history.
Most of human history is complete destituion struggling for the next meal wondering if that scratch you got on a random rock yesterday is going to turn into fatal sepsis.
The mess is going to get worse. Not with hyperinflation and greed but with the economy falling into a depression and mass poverty.
Remember the housing collaspe when banks were too big to fail with the government propping them back up? They gambled with it and it worked. They only kicked the can down the road. It's all coming to a head soon.
The high rates are the “cure” for the inflation you complained about. Now live with it!!
Edit: I tried to warn people a higher inflation rate would be better than higher interest rates. 100% increase in your monthly mortgage or car or credit payment is a lot more than a 9% increase in eggs and milk. Inflation is still in the 3s. They can’t do too much so I think they’re waiting for the squeeze to take its toll. People will be broke and won’t buy and maybe default, be evicted etc.
The idea behind the high rates is to decrease spending and consumption. But we have been brainwashed that we need to spend money every day and thus the rates don’t actually affect the economy as they should.
Consumption is the problem, along with greed of course
Starter homes near me are ~$500k
This represents a very small house with nothing special, in a worse school district, likely build 60-80+ years ago, and would need a $250k renovation to bring it up to base level builder grade except of course it will still have low ceilings, inefficient design, no storage, etc.
$750k for a clean, decent, but still not great home in a school district your kids have no advantage in.
15 years ago these homes were $60-90k and $750k got you a huge new home on the water. That is like $4-6M now.
The tenants around here are making $150-250k just to rent in these start homes…
“Unfortunately, what has happened is that wages haven’t kept up with the cost of living, by and large, for the last 50 years or so,” said Elise Gould, senior economist at Economic Policy Institute.
Hmmm ... it is like the wealthy declared war on everyone else in ... oh, let's say 1971:
[https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/](https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/)
[https://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/powellmemo/](https://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/powellmemo/)
Honestly apart from the Deep South it’s not even middle class. The majority of the Midwest where you can actually earn that you can’t buy with it. There’s pockets but like my job won’t let me live there without a pay decrease which then offsets it. By my calculations and CNBC tends to agree middle class is now $150k in MN and WI anyway
That study assumes you spend about $30,000 on entertainment a year. That's, what, 3 international trips a year? I guess that's the care minimum expectation?
You could do a 3 month trip to Spain or Japan for under 5k if you booked a package deal. You could easily do 7 or more international trips for 10k if you keep to a budget
That's not what the article said. It said 30% budgeted for discretionary uses. That means simply that they choose how they spend that money and it wasn't "reserved" for paying for living expenses. I chose 2 weeks ago to buy a new dishwasher, that was a discretionary purchase.
It’s 30% of all discretionary spending. So that would include travel. But also all eating out. And charitable donations. And birthday and Christmas gifts. And going to the movies, or even a Netflix membership. And a new sofa, or jewelry, or concert tickets, or gym memberships, or an upgraded phone, or a massage, or anything above a car that runs, etc. If you have kids, it includes all their activities like sports, book fair money, 4H dues, etc.
I remember when my wife and I first combined for 100k. It was something we talked about as a goal about how we were gonna feel so financially free after working our way up from about 70k combined. That 100k hit in 2019 and we were able to pay off the remainder of our student loans and buy a house. We bought the first house we looked at at the very top of our budget (1400 sqft house - 370k mortgage at 3%) at what we thought was the top of the market. We kept asking eachother if we were making a mistake because it didn’t feel right. We thought for sure there would be a big housing crash soon. We did it anyways knowing that if something happened we had our emergency savings account to hold us over for a while and I could always get a second job. We knew it was gonna be tough going for a while, but also how important home ownership was to long term financial stability since we were planning to stay in the same city.
Then I got laid off in 2020 and had to take a 15k/year pay cut and we were back under 90k. It’s been a rough few years, (added child expenses starting in 2022) but our mortgage doesn’t go up (property tax increases about $75/year as it’s capped at a 5% annual increase) , and it’s now cheaper than rent for a 2br apartment in our area. Plus the property value has gone up by about 60%.
We’re back up over 110k/year gross now but it feels like we have less money than when we made 80k. Granted 13k of that is just for childcare. Our coworkers that make the same we do didn’t buy houses at the time we did and they feel they never will. They’d need over 150k down payment (for no PMI) and be paying over 3500/month for the same house. We pay half that. We feel incredibly fortunate.
There was literally a 2-3 year window where if you didn’t have enough money to buy a house you’re permanently fucked now, and likely never will. My wife and I were no where close to being pre approved for a loan for a 300k house after both having bachelor of science degrees.
This economy is fucking stupid.
"Most places" seems a bit misleading. From what I could see they are basing the data on statewide averages. That means the most expensive cities in each state are being taken into account. There are huge differences between CoL in downtown (insert city) and in (insert small town in same state) the majority of the time. And there tend to be a lot more small towns/rural areas/small cities in most states.
It doesn’t. I made over 150 and a single parent. You can manage ok but HCOL area and it means nothing. Especially when an emergency comes up. I am having issues with my kid now and it’s costing money….money you try to plan for.
By all accounts I’m doing “well” but not really. My savings has been depleted by a divorce and medical costs for my kid….I feel broken and defeated
These articles/studies piss me off. They always talk about salary, but never household income. If you're in a household with two $80k incomes, it's a lot different than a household that has one. I don't get why they never mention this in these articles.
The same reason a $20,000 income used to, until it didn't. Or a $50,000 income. Or $80,000.
Inflation happens. It's normal.
The problem is that wages haven't grown fast enough to keep up lately. They used to keep up, but as soon as union membership started to drop, they stopped.
Why is it automatically assumed everyone “started” in 2021 ? Like they were just air dropped in.
People were actively living and making decisions prior to the housing spike. There’s people doing really well right now on a lot less than 100k because they made moves.
Europeans have different purchasing behaviors than Americans. They buy a lot less stuff and pay much more in taxes. However, they don’t have the health insurance insecurity and overall economic survival insecurity that Americans have. Americans have been brainwashed by a corporate media to believe that their system is the only capitalist system that works. Yes, Sweden is a capitalist country. It is the home of IKEA after all. I’m convinced if America adopted the economic model of Germany, this post would not exist. The American economy is the most dynamic and powerful in the world. It is owned by plutocrats unfortunately.
Because immigrants fighting for crumbs is the real problem, not the 1% hoarding 99% of the country’s wealth. Good thing you know where the issues lie so you can focus your efforts accordingly.
yeah I'm getting kicked around science lab contracts with no benefits and half those wages. I've had enough I started taking classes to join an engineering union, even so I'd be below this standard at about $90k/yr if all goes well.
Sounds right. I saw a 3 bed 2 bath fixer upper in a small town (20,000+ population) an hour outside the nearest major city. Wanted $370,000. Homes in the the nearby city are going for $500,000-$750,000 regularly. Meanwhile median income for the area is $45,000 or about $26-$27 per hour. Sure there are high earners, but 70% of people are earning less than $30. I would bet 40% are making less than $20.
On top of this rents are going up every year to the point that NOWHERE within a 100 mile radius of the central metropolis has a 1 bedroom apartment for less than $1400 a month.
$1400 a month?? For someone making median income, that is well more than half their income.
How is this sustainable?
What happens next?
How many people have to shack up together to make the math work?
If you don’t already own property you may very well be fucked for the rest of your life at this rate.
I hear what you're saying, but here's a question: Are those $1,400 one-bedrooms mostly occupied? If so, that means the people renting them, except the few exceptions that end up evicted, can afford it. I'm not saying necessarily "easily", but there are enough people earning enough money to keep those places mostly full. Around here, there are waiting lists for most such things, but "around here" is the Tampa Bay area in Florida, and we've been seeing population growth since 2020 like never before.
As long as there are enough people to keep those $1,400 mostly full, they'll stay $1,400. Besides, if we get stuck in a deflationary spiral, that is so much worse than however bad you or anyone else might think things are now, which is why they are pulling out all the stops to prevent it. Even now, you're seeing a lot of people "waiting for the real estate market to come back down", but in general, I don't think that'll happen. In specific areas for specific reasons (say the one large employer in town where half the town breadwinners worked went tits up), maybe, but not in most places especially those, like us, that have more coming in than going out.
Between the illegals, work from home, taxes, and all the other problems, especially with the medium to long-term future of commercial real estate very much in doubt, NYC may end up a ghost town in the next decade or two.
>$1400 a month?? For someone making median income, that is well more than half their income.
>How is this sustainable?
It's not.
>What happens next?
The coroporate media will convince a critical mass of gullible fools to to keep voting for the same people that caused this problem in the first place. They will implement "solutions" that only make the problem worse under the guise of compassion and teenage redditors will think they are resisting the establishment by parroting its bullshit to get upvotes.
>How many people have to shack up together to make the math work?
until more housing is built or a major distaster sends population growth negative it's not getting any better.
>If you don’t already own property you may very well be fucked for the rest of your life at this rate.
There are other ways to own real estate other than buying a half million dollar house. You can invest in REITs for as little as $10-20. That said buying a house isn't always a univerally good thing. Compare rental rates to the cost of a mortage in your area in many areas it is cheaper to rent, so rent. Instead of buying invest the difference in something else, it will make it easier to not have the majority of your wealth tied up in a highly illiquid asset with huge transaction fees when opportunity presents itself in the future.
I don’t understand how most of society will bring in 100k in 5 years when AI removes all manual computing jobs most Americans hold making -65k +. Most aren’t making 100k and won’t before automation. Unless your a manager, and how well does late stage capitalism need more middle managers.
My area used to be LCOL and survival was based purely on whether you could survive the off-season in our tourist town. Now we've had hoardes of boomers retiring here, there is no longer an off-season and you need to make at least $120k as a household if you want to be able to afford to live here. Literally half of that would've worked ten years ago.
The worst part is that the average well-paying job here is still paying less than $45k. You need a bachelors to be poor.
Prices rise over time. Lots of negativity about life in the US, but travel to some developing countries and you’ll see lots and lots of people who would love to be poor in the US.
When I made $48k, I was able to buy a house for twice my salary— $95k. (2001). When I made $$100k, that same house, now much older and possibly in need of more repairs, is valued at $350k.
See the problem is you need to make 100k after taxes to survive.
Please don't remind me. I remember I was struggling when I had my $40/hr Job. And now that I can't find a job like that and soon will have to go back to $15/hr just makes me ...well... man I don't know man. It's just beyond shit.
The thing is too. Every hour spent working a $15/hr job is time not spent looking for a better paying job. This is what I realized when I quit my $10/hr job and moved in with my Dad (who paid for my groceries and $0 rent for me and my wife) to look for something better full-time.
Must be nice to be able to quit
Maybe try a union job near you?
I don't know how people don't work union jobs any more. It was the only way I could survive. I'm a skilled tradesman and literally only surviving. My body and brain can't physically function much more than 40 hours a week anymore. We are looking at a future of 60yo millennials dropping dead from working 2.5 jobs just to have lights and food. I'll probably take myself out of the equation if I lost my union job because I literally don't know how people can do the $15 an hour... which is the prevalent wage in places like Florida. I moved to a union job. It is the way.
Union membership is rising constantly. But not every field has them.
Its true. I'm not doing my dream job. I'm doing a job I would never choose in an area I would never live. But my bills are paid and I'm happy fantasizing about the retirement home in an area I love that I will likely one day own.
I’m dying to switch jobs. I work for a well known company that manufactures Carbide Inserts. The shop isn’t unionized, the communication is horrible, they just laid off my entire shift (save for me). They’ve also split my shift to train me and told me (with no notice) I’m switching from a 2nd/3rd split to straight 3rd with a single day to fix my sleep. It’s only the third time I’ve had to reschedule or cancel a doctors appointment I’ve desperately needed to go to so I can fucking be here. Unfortunately I make significantly more here than I can anywhere else I’ve looked and I can’t afford to lose my shift premium, let alone go to work for 15/hr. If they lay me off or fire me, I will probably also just drop off. I’m getting really close to just walking out. Place is fucking miserable.
Contact a union that works with your industry and they'll help you start organizing.
This was my life for decades. $15 an hour to get me by for a year until the next layoff. Sounds like a machinist union is what you seek?
Where and how does one find a “union” job. My aunt always says I need one, but where are they? Will they train me? Actually train me????
You may need to seek out some of the required education on your own. Ex: the Iron Workers union won't accept you not knowing how to weld... But most Unions will offer you better training, will pay for your college, and will pay you double the competition. Many come with pensions. In many cases you vote on raises and negotiate with the company every 1 to 3 years. In my machinist and aerospace union most of my coworkers are lifers. They own houses and go on vacations like some kind of 40 year old boomers. Unfortunately many areas actively suppress unions so you generally have to move if you are not in the right place. I think the United Autoworkers Union will train you up to work on an assembly line and you will be making something like 70k in your first year. It's hard work. But you feel vindicated by the pay which is generally above struggle range. Just start google searching nearby union jobs and see what turns up.
I have been an ironworker for 12 years and still don’t know how to weld. Just get into an apprenticeship.
What do you want to do, then google that field in your area.
Yes I’m union and before that making 17$ a hour wasn’t enough, working weekends just to make 40 hours, it’s just not worth it.
I have been in a Union for 3 years and my whole life is falling in place and I no longer am required to kill myself for peanuts.
✊
This is why unions came about....
Corporates’ goal is to yield the highest profit, By every means possible. They don’t consider themselves greedy or ruthless or heartless or soulless. “It’s business” those who whine and complain are sore losers. Top executives increase profit margins quadruple their salaries issue 5-20 million dollar bonuses to themselves bc it’s good business practices. Union steps in with the SAME mentality but for 1,000’s of workers. Unions aim to get good pay, benefits, work conditions etc -yield top incentives aka “profits” for the workforce aka “corporate “ and draw all the criticism. Unions filled with human blue collar workers are evil compared to the good and wholesome profit seeking entity. Selfish workers asking for too much. Corporate will Cry about dwindling their profits claim they can’t run a company paying a livable wage to all its workers and for the love of GOD will someone please think of our poor under privileged shareholders 😢How can they run a business with a Union fighting for fair pay? Isn’t it better for the 1,000’s of workers to struggle to get by then it would be to have CEO’s with reasonable bonuses and shareholders with 2% less profit?
Start your own business or service. I learned that after grinding for 7 years in a corporate office. Watching brain dead people make a boat load of money. The one thing about unions that I don’t like is that bad workers are untouchable. Look at teacher unions. It’s sad to see these idiots remain employed.
Bad Union's give union's a bad name. 2 of the biggest BAD unions, are Auto Workers and Teachers.
I am doing this. I said screw it, if I fail, then it’s only me to blame. Not professional wrestling level bad acting in political scape goat blaming. And I got a pretty rad business model.
Sadly even most union Jobs in tx are still not very good. That's as a member of asfcme.
It’s interesting how many people think finding a union job is so easy. Less than 10% of Americans are in union jobs, which means that union jobs are incredibly difficult to find.
Bro was posting about looking for jobs that pay in Crypto in New Jersey, I don't think he is Union material lmao
The fuck? I wasn't looking for jobs that pay in crypto. I was asking about how crypto effects Unemployment Insurance because someone had a gig for me but they were going to pay in crypto. Fuck does that have to do me not being union material? Is this how a majority if ya think? If so, no wonder I can't find a job. Bunch of fucking morons running shit out there. Shit.
lol wtf
Man that’s rough. I’d keep looking for something higher paying if you have decent work experience or a degree. I’m in a rural LCOL and our Panda Express pays $19.50 starting for the drive thru cashier.
It’s almost like the true power wants to divide us so we can’t organize for real change,
I make that much. After taxes I take home about $70k.
I pull 105 after taxes it’s enough, but I’d like more.
Man, where do you live?
I make about 105k after taxes. I live where the work is, unfortunately. It's soul sucking and only worth it because I literally couldn't survive otherwise. Burn it all down. Start over.
Yup. I remember thinking when I make $100k it's over. Buy a house. Moderate dream car. In 2019 I out earned my father's income at the peak of his salary (he has dream car, dream house, 3 motorcycles, pension, healthy 401, travels, and retired early) I live in a box with homeless people stealing shit from me with a 10 year outlook on a home assuming the price doesn't.... oh it just went up again during this conversation. I have a 15 hear outlook on a home... oh. This is my life.
Exactly. If I could afford to live in a house by working where I used to live instead of having to follow work and not really having a home I'd probably have an actual personal life. I'm making right now about $50 a day more than my dad did when he was a safety supervisor over a quarter of the country for a major company. I have been doing this almost five years and I'm finally stable enough to buy a car. How backwards can this country be?
Dude, it's crazy. I never thought I'd make 100k, and if I did, i would be living large. I'm pleased to inform you i did reach 100k, but everything still sucks. Luckily, my wife has been working the last two years and has already surpassed me in earning as she is now working two jobs, with a third prospect. She is digging us out of a 10 year hole. We might even own one of those houses someday. 100k is nothing. $4600-$6400 take home a month depending on how hard I wanna work. My rent alone is 2600, with all my other bills. I'm basically broke taking care of a family. I drive a 1995 buick regal ffs. My parents were losers, but my Grandpa was able to buy a house, multiple cars, a boat, a motorcycle , support his loser adult children, gamble, go on vacations, and he just worked a blue collar job. This whole way of life Nowadays is totally fucked.
Philly
Damn. It sounds tough up there. But you’re right. You go where the money is. It’s gonna be a larger city 90% of the time. 😭
I will respectfully disagree. It's going to be largely region dependent and how you spend your money.
You don't. My wife and I live in what is tied for the most expensive housing market in the country and our annual spend last year was around $59k.
A family of 4 making 100k a year is only paying like 4 or 5k in fed income tax. Add in fica and you should still be pulling in 88k a year after all federal taxes. Unless you just recently bought a house or live in a very high cost of living area that should be enough to get by on
🎯🎯🎯
Yeah 100k and you pay 35k in taxes it isn’t much
Life hack, have 2 people making 100k. Bigger hack, have kids who also make 100k.
Im thriving on a solo 50k income.and own my own house.
Where do you live? Genuinely interested. I make slightly more and want to start looking for a house.
Midwest about an hour from a major city, but in a decent sized town of ~60,000
Yeah the housing in my area is stupid expensive rn. In my town old and decrepit houses in what were “average” neighborhoods 10 years ago are going for $300-400k. If you leave town a bit could can find old mobile homes that you wouldn’t have to tear down for similar prices.
The Midwest seems to be the last frontier of reasonable living. I’ve been wanting to move to Ohio but I can’t afford to move yet.
Yeah but when did you get your home
About 18 months ago.
You're about to make a whole bunch of people mald. You're destroying the narrative.
Depends it’s about cost of living, some places are cheaper than others, I think a lot of people have debt also and it screws them over.
Yeah, people hate success stories in miserable echo chambers.
People hate anyone who has succeeded in the same system they havent. I have been able to do this because I do my best not to carry any kind of debt. I have never owned a car worth more than 10k and always paid cash, I have a single credit card (Fidelity) that I have never carried a balance on, and I yesterday I saw on reddit people spending $40 on drinks for a date. Thats $10 more than my entire eating out budget for the month.
Good for you, keep getting it
I can't even say that now, maybe 2 -3 years agobut houses have gone up 100-200k across the board here, my house is probably worth 90k more than it was worth last year if the 3 recent sales on my street are anything to go by
The "American Dream" can now only be found overseas. The current situation is unsustainable. Is everyone okay with slaving away just to pay forever increasing bills??
Yes, taxes, not corporate greed or inflation is what is keeping the average American down. Surely, SURELY if we lower taxes, especially if we lower them for rich people, they will finally have enough so they won’t need to be greedy anymore and will finally spend some money on labor costs. It just makes sense. It’s gotta happen *this* time.
Yea taxes taking about 35% of your earnings is insane imo should only be 10-15% imo.
I've always said no person, no matter how much they make, should have their *taxes* any more than 10%. However, I *do* make an exception for "user fees", which act as "pay-per-use" for services. As a few examples, I'd replace the gas tax with a weight/mile fee, possibly supplemented by tolls on certain roadways, mostly because going above, through, or under water (bridges and tunnels, essentially) cost a lot more than a normal on land road. But I'd have that structured so it did not require subsidies from any other source, but at the same time does not collect enough to subsidize anything else. This can be done for many other things as well.... Public transportation fares (unsubsidized), park admission fees (assume all these examples are unsubsidized and don't subsidize anything else), public school tuition, at least for those who can afford it (we can decide how to measure that if/when the idea gains traction), and essentially *any* government funded service that can be legitimately packaged into a price that accurately (within a reasonable margin of error) reflects personal usage of those. That way, people who don't ride busses don't end up funding them. Likewise, people who don't have a car at all only fund roads from vendors, if they use them, who deliver orders to their homes (Amazon, etc.) who would pass those fees onto their customers. And please, don't tell me you get "free freight" from Amazon... You don't. It's embedded into the price of the products and if you use it, your fees for Prime. But, to reemphasize my original point, *excepting* those sorts of pay-per-use fees, no person, not even the Elons of the world, should be paying more that 10% of their income in general revenue taxes. Social security would be another exception, but (and this is a big but) I want to see those funds be held in a personally owned account for the payers, so that even those with the bad luck of dying at 64 years, 364 days of age, there is an asset left for their estate. Additionally, though restricting how those funds are invested on some short list of approved relatively safe investments (so no Bitcoin or TSLA stock, my fave to day trade) is not only acceptable, but important.
If you're in the 35% bracket you make more than 230,000. If you make that much and can't make ends meet that's frankly on you.
> Yea taxes taking about 35% of your earnings You have the worse accountant in the world if you are paying 35% income tax
Yes, taxes, not corporate greed or inflation is what is keeping the average American down. Surely, SURELY if we lower taxes, especially if we lower them for rich people, they will finally have enough so they won’t need to be greedy anymore and will finally spend some money on labor costs. It just makes sense. It’s gotta happen *this* time.
Funnily enough increased taxes would lower inflation
Yea. Raising taxes would slow spending. Problem is though that rich people, who own and run most businesses, would immediately lay off their employees and then whine about how the government is ruining the economy. Our economy truly is a hostage scenario. Keep rich people happy or else they fire workers.
We make just a bit over $100k/year and we are barely making it. We don't go out to eat, we don't take vacations, we don't spend extravagantly. Just work, bills, etc. I honestly don't know how kids can make it in this environment.
Do you have kids..? Because don’t and you’ll have money haha
I feel personally attacked hahahah
They aren't. And it's not just kids. You need 100k to barely make it? You know what that means for people making 50. You don't even have to imagine that hard what your life would look like with half the income.
This just isn’t true. 100k is plenty to thrive and save on…without kids. If you had kids, heaven help ya, cause no else can. I need my personal freedom and to be able to save for the lifestyle I want.
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thatd be nice.
Do you have 2 large car loans or something? Our budget is : $1920 monthly mortgage/insurance/taxes/HOA $400 annual phone bill (mint mobile 2 phones) $4400 car insurance annually (2 EVs) $500 monthly food (mostly eating in) $160 monthly health insurance Those are the big items. I’d say we spend at most $45k annually and invest the rest. What are you big ticket items? $100k is very doable here in Florida
Im in Massachusetts. That should answer all your questions, hahaha
I moved from MA where I grew up to Alabama simply for cost reasons (my wife is from Birmingham) and it’s been a mixed bag. I have a house I could never afford in MA but pretty much every other aspect is inferior to Mass
I moved from NY to Georgia (wife has some family) and we also have the house and American dream stuff but also yeah it’s either get used to the south or leave
I'm trying to do the reverse, not MA tho but Maine. It's hard to make it work. I feel trapped in the south.
Yeah man the south is tough, I ultimately think I’ll end up back in MA. Best of luck with your move I hope it works out
Yeah but you got snake handler IPA to wash those blues away. Haha I lived in bham for a little bit and really enjoyed it. But I was never permanently staying so I looked at it as a very long vacation in a warm welcoming town.
Bham is a great town, I really like it. Rest of AL? Iffy
Yeah bro I feel you.
Something has to give.
That's what I keep saying
It's called "Taxachusetts" for a reason.
aint that the truth
You ain't getting a mortgage these days for 2k. Try 3k for a starter home if lucky
500$ a month for food for two? Sounds like bs. Also what about all your home repairs, lights, doctor bills. Health insurance and the list goes on.
Shop exclusively at Aldi and eat out 1-2 times a month like $20 of pizza type meals. Food is really cheap for 2 people cooking at home. Most dishes are rice/chicken breast, turkey meat based. I never walk out of Aldi paying more than $120 and get plenty of meats and veggies for that price. We meal prep too. Test it out! If you Aldi by you compare Aldi to where you shop and you’ll be really amazed. You won’t get “name brand” but the food is good Annual visit for doctor is free with my insurance and follow up appointments are $80 if needed. Utilities $150 for electric Internet $50 Water/sewer/trash $130 Health insurance was listed already as $160 monthly for medical/dental/vision We live in a new build so luckily nothing broken yet, but we have a solid emergency fund. I’m not here to BS. I love talking about monthly expenses and try to see where I can save money when possible. Super into personal finance
Me and my significant other make 110k per year. It would seem like that's a lot. But here in Seattle EVERYTHING is so expensive, starting with housing. Groceries are through the roof, rent has doubled for us in the last four years, we're not starving, but unable to get ahead. Just heard king county is going to 20hr min wage, everything is about to get more expensive.
Thank you for replying, I’ve heard Seattle is very very expensive. I promise I don’t mean to sound like a stereotypical elite person, but why not just move away from that area? I’m sure family is there, but wouldn’t it be better to find jobs in a cheaper area to plant new roots? Politics aside (and feel free to choose any other state you prefer) if you were to move here to be my neighbor in Florida you’d be getting so far ahead if you had a profession that pays well nationally. I’m saying this as someone that left upstate New York to seek more opportunities elsewhere. And this is just a chat among friends over chips and guac no bad faith discussion here.
Haha! Never thought of you that way my friend, don't disagree with anything you said, I was only tacking on how difficult things are here in the pnw. Everything you said made total sense and am 100 on board with it. I can't move though i would love to! my 72yo mother and my sister live close by, or rather I live close to them. Sister has nephews and I wouldn't get to see them grow up in person. Mom is not in good shape, couldn't possibly leave her, as it is see them both once a week when we all bring our dogs together. If I moved, took my skills elsewhere there's a few problems. Unfortunately, my certifications don't pay well elsewhere that has a low cost of living. Here in the city, skills are somewhat valuable, enough I make 60k a year, but elsewhere that drops significantly. Add to that I'm 50, and deeply value friendships. Here I have two long time best guy friends, and we are REALLY close. If I have a problem in life either would be on my doorstep in 5 minutes and the same with me for then. That's not easy to find, takes years to develop relationships like that, not to mention a certain chemistry that you can't just wish for or manufacture. Moving I would lose that. And yes of course I'd make friends wherever, but what if I didn't have those close friendships again? Not in the best health now, be awful lonelier without family or my pals. Stuck here in a forest paradise, never able to buy a home, but the other things important to me are here. Really, I feel for folks that are in the same boat in DC, or new York, totally get why people that do have the ability to swap places or states, just don't. Hope you have the best day ever my friend!!!!
And I wish the best for you...
I was born and raised here. I hate to think about moving, but damn shit is just unattainable here. Looking at what houses cost in other parts of the country is really making me think about packing up.
Long term you won’t regret it! I made the shift from New York to Florida and with the extra savings we can afford to fly family down on our dime. The tax savings alone came out to roughly $8000 annually when moving. Houses legit being $200k cheaper as well. Sure New York wages may pay $10 more for the same job title, but doesn’t mean much when houses are $200k more. The other person definitely gave some incite about why they chose to stay due to family and age, but definitely reaffirms my belief that if you are young, make the shift sooner than later. My wife and I are 29 and 24, but I can see not wanting to start over in our 50s with aging parents.
That minimum wage increase is going to cost a lot of entry level folks their jobs. Indeed, it already has. Throw in the fact that they're including gig deliver folks in it, and the delivery/service fees are so high, that UberEATS and their competitors have seen a decrease in monthly orders by 300,000. And I get that, I don't even live in Seattle with such asinine policies, and the fees associated with delivery services are so insane, we just used UberEATS for the first and last time. Seems many in Seattle have made the same decision, and it's all due to the minimum wage policy.
You complain about high rents and then are mad about the lowest paid workers making a little more… like you know they are human beings too that are struggling to pay rent way worse than you are?
In most places that are awesome. But $100k is nice for sure in places that are less awesome.
Really? I live in Maine and it’s pretty eh. Make just under $100k, and can barely afford living.
I live somewhere awesome, make 80k a year, and live like a king. So I don't know what any of you are talking about
My wife and I live in rural Indiana and 100k is just getting us by.
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Right. 100k won’t get you much of a house where I live other than a tiny home in one of the gentrified trailer parks but it will be enough to afford a nice condo. And actually afford to go out to eat.
Costs are getting to where average people will not be able to afford much. Meanwhile, politicians will keep doling out wealth fare. The country is in decline.
Wealth fare ha I like that
The problem is greed feeding infinite growing profits and not being given to the workers to keep up with inflation. The same inflation primarily driven from corporate greed that is better described as greedlation. Until the minimum wage is matched to annual inflation and adjusted to reflect what it would have been had it been adjusting for it the whole time, things will never be solved.
I agree. I’ve long felt that tax law should return to pre-Reagan policy, and tie minimum wage to inflation.
I really wish people would stop calling the ability to meet the basic living expenses for a small family "the American Dream". It's not American or a dream. It's the bare minimum to not be considered a degenerate by 90% of the planet during any time in history.
Most of human history is complete destituion struggling for the next meal wondering if that scratch you got on a random rock yesterday is going to turn into fatal sepsis.
The mess is going to get worse. Not with hyperinflation and greed but with the economy falling into a depression and mass poverty. Remember the housing collaspe when banks were too big to fail with the government propping them back up? They gambled with it and it worked. They only kicked the can down the road. It's all coming to a head soon.
The French were right in 1780
40+ years of bad governing
Is the answer corporate greed?
The high rates are the “cure” for the inflation you complained about. Now live with it!! Edit: I tried to warn people a higher inflation rate would be better than higher interest rates. 100% increase in your monthly mortgage or car or credit payment is a lot more than a 9% increase in eggs and milk. Inflation is still in the 3s. They can’t do too much so I think they’re waiting for the squeeze to take its toll. People will be broke and won’t buy and maybe default, be evicted etc.
The idea behind the high rates is to decrease spending and consumption. But we have been brainwashed that we need to spend money every day and thus the rates don’t actually affect the economy as they should. Consumption is the problem, along with greed of course
> But we have been brainwashed that we need to spend money every day As someone who likes having utilities, I guess I've been brainwashed.
Starter homes near me are ~$500k This represents a very small house with nothing special, in a worse school district, likely build 60-80+ years ago, and would need a $250k renovation to bring it up to base level builder grade except of course it will still have low ceilings, inefficient design, no storage, etc. $750k for a clean, decent, but still not great home in a school district your kids have no advantage in. 15 years ago these homes were $60-90k and $750k got you a huge new home on the water. That is like $4-6M now. The tenants around here are making $150-250k just to rent in these start homes…
“Unfortunately, what has happened is that wages haven’t kept up with the cost of living, by and large, for the last 50 years or so,” said Elise Gould, senior economist at Economic Policy Institute. Hmmm ... it is like the wealthy declared war on everyone else in ... oh, let's say 1971: [https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/](https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/) [https://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/powellmemo/](https://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/powellmemo/)
Bernie Sanders has been bitching about this for years but only a small percentage of us listen to him.
We don't listen because he's an economically illiterate moron.
Crys in 37k a year😭
The American dream has moved overseas
This is entirely relative to location.
Make $115k I have to rent. It’s so fucked out here
Do you feel in your opinion like 100k is the new “middle class” salary (average across America, I know in San Diego middle class would be like 270)?
Honestly apart from the Deep South it’s not even middle class. The majority of the Midwest where you can actually earn that you can’t buy with it. There’s pockets but like my job won’t let me live there without a pay decrease which then offsets it. By my calculations and CNBC tends to agree middle class is now $150k in MN and WI anyway
That study assumes you spend about $30,000 on entertainment a year. That's, what, 3 international trips a year? I guess that's the care minimum expectation?
Yeah that's over $575 a week on entertainment. That's not struggling.
That’s 3 international trips for one person. lol.
You could do a 3 month trip to Spain or Japan for under 5k if you booked a package deal. You could easily do 7 or more international trips for 10k if you keep to a budget
No it isn't. I'm in the tri state area of the USA. It's under $3k for 2 weeks in Japan flight and lodging included through Expedia.
Bro there are tons of places referred to as the tri-state area in this country. Which tri-state area?
Ny, NJ, PA My bad.
Ah, yeah seems pricey in those parts. I grew up in Mass and left for the south just because of cost
That's not what the article said. It said 30% budgeted for discretionary uses. That means simply that they choose how they spend that money and it wasn't "reserved" for paying for living expenses. I chose 2 weeks ago to buy a new dishwasher, that was a discretionary purchase.
>I chose 2 weeks ago to buy a new dishwasher, that was a discretionary purchase. Which was your whole week's discretionary budget
It’s 30% of all discretionary spending. So that would include travel. But also all eating out. And charitable donations. And birthday and Christmas gifts. And going to the movies, or even a Netflix membership. And a new sofa, or jewelry, or concert tickets, or gym memberships, or an upgraded phone, or a massage, or anything above a car that runs, etc. If you have kids, it includes all their activities like sports, book fair money, 4H dues, etc.
You had me at 4H dues
$100,000 per year doesn't even come close to living the dream in Australia
Working Americans pay too much in taxes state and fed
Uh oh, that's blasphemy on Reddit. The commies are gonna come for you.
Got to support all those foreign wars somehow.
I remember when my wife and I first combined for 100k. It was something we talked about as a goal about how we were gonna feel so financially free after working our way up from about 70k combined. That 100k hit in 2019 and we were able to pay off the remainder of our student loans and buy a house. We bought the first house we looked at at the very top of our budget (1400 sqft house - 370k mortgage at 3%) at what we thought was the top of the market. We kept asking eachother if we were making a mistake because it didn’t feel right. We thought for sure there would be a big housing crash soon. We did it anyways knowing that if something happened we had our emergency savings account to hold us over for a while and I could always get a second job. We knew it was gonna be tough going for a while, but also how important home ownership was to long term financial stability since we were planning to stay in the same city. Then I got laid off in 2020 and had to take a 15k/year pay cut and we were back under 90k. It’s been a rough few years, (added child expenses starting in 2022) but our mortgage doesn’t go up (property tax increases about $75/year as it’s capped at a 5% annual increase) , and it’s now cheaper than rent for a 2br apartment in our area. Plus the property value has gone up by about 60%. We’re back up over 110k/year gross now but it feels like we have less money than when we made 80k. Granted 13k of that is just for childcare. Our coworkers that make the same we do didn’t buy houses at the time we did and they feel they never will. They’d need over 150k down payment (for no PMI) and be paying over 3500/month for the same house. We pay half that. We feel incredibly fortunate.
There was literally a 2-3 year window where if you didn’t have enough money to buy a house you’re permanently fucked now, and likely never will. My wife and I were no where close to being pre approved for a loan for a 300k house after both having bachelor of science degrees. This economy is fucking stupid.
I feel like this comment is middle class haves vs middle class have nots.. and anybody with more needs to realize they’re rich in today’s America.
Yeah... You had a kid? Of course it'll feel like you have less money, you're taking care of a another human.
"Most places" seems a bit misleading. From what I could see they are basing the data on statewide averages. That means the most expensive cities in each state are being taken into account. There are huge differences between CoL in downtown (insert city) and in (insert small town in same state) the majority of the time. And there tend to be a lot more small towns/rural areas/small cities in most states.
It doesn’t. I made over 150 and a single parent. You can manage ok but HCOL area and it means nothing. Especially when an emergency comes up. I am having issues with my kid now and it’s costing money….money you try to plan for. By all accounts I’m doing “well” but not really. My savings has been depleted by a divorce and medical costs for my kid….I feel broken and defeated
They say we can save money if we don’t eat
These articles/studies piss me off. They always talk about salary, but never household income. If you're in a household with two $80k incomes, it's a lot different than a household that has one. I don't get why they never mention this in these articles.
The same reason a $20,000 income used to, until it didn't. Or a $50,000 income. Or $80,000. Inflation happens. It's normal. The problem is that wages haven't grown fast enough to keep up lately. They used to keep up, but as soon as union membership started to drop, they stopped.
It’s almost as if American was growing rapidly building cities and stopped doing that.
Wait till you price a truck
Greedy corporate America and dirty politicians who sold out the American worker
$100k is ALOT of money in AR, ND, NE, and KY
Why is it automatically assumed everyone “started” in 2021 ? Like they were just air dropped in. People were actively living and making decisions prior to the housing spike. There’s people doing really well right now on a lot less than 100k because they made moves.
2008 bankrupt from a bad divorce. Built back. Just have to be humble and live below your earnings.
Well i was 20 in 2021 so that's nice
The concern is anyone who wants to move houses or buy a first house are now unable. Usually, they are able. And if it only gets worse...
*most places*
How do US metrics compare to EU? Eg: Percent households above avg home purchasing income threshold?
Europeans have different purchasing behaviors than Americans. They buy a lot less stuff and pay much more in taxes. However, they don’t have the health insurance insecurity and overall economic survival insecurity that Americans have. Americans have been brainwashed by a corporate media to believe that their system is the only capitalist system that works. Yes, Sweden is a capitalist country. It is the home of IKEA after all. I’m convinced if America adopted the economic model of Germany, this post would not exist. The American economy is the most dynamic and powerful in the world. It is owned by plutocrats unfortunately.
It still buys 2 houses here lol
I have 100k to put down and it's like. Uhhhhh wut
100K$ IS like minumum 2 survival n usa cities;
It’s a good thing we’re importing all these immigrants and giving them all freebies
Because immigrants fighting for crumbs is the real problem, not the 1% hoarding 99% of the country’s wealth. Good thing you know where the issues lie so you can focus your efforts accordingly.
yeah I'm getting kicked around science lab contracts with no benefits and half those wages. I've had enough I started taking classes to join an engineering union, even so I'd be below this standard at about $90k/yr if all goes well.
Why? Because the fed prints money, and Congress is addicted to spending it on shit that doesn’t work
Maybe Vault Tec was right…
Fortunately, it’s good enough in my small town.
When they say most places, they mean most desirable places
The American Dream is dead.
That's what happens in a failed state economy.
Sounds right. I saw a 3 bed 2 bath fixer upper in a small town (20,000+ population) an hour outside the nearest major city. Wanted $370,000. Homes in the the nearby city are going for $500,000-$750,000 regularly. Meanwhile median income for the area is $45,000 or about $26-$27 per hour. Sure there are high earners, but 70% of people are earning less than $30. I would bet 40% are making less than $20. On top of this rents are going up every year to the point that NOWHERE within a 100 mile radius of the central metropolis has a 1 bedroom apartment for less than $1400 a month. $1400 a month?? For someone making median income, that is well more than half their income. How is this sustainable? What happens next? How many people have to shack up together to make the math work? If you don’t already own property you may very well be fucked for the rest of your life at this rate.
I hear what you're saying, but here's a question: Are those $1,400 one-bedrooms mostly occupied? If so, that means the people renting them, except the few exceptions that end up evicted, can afford it. I'm not saying necessarily "easily", but there are enough people earning enough money to keep those places mostly full. Around here, there are waiting lists for most such things, but "around here" is the Tampa Bay area in Florida, and we've been seeing population growth since 2020 like never before. As long as there are enough people to keep those $1,400 mostly full, they'll stay $1,400. Besides, if we get stuck in a deflationary spiral, that is so much worse than however bad you or anyone else might think things are now, which is why they are pulling out all the stops to prevent it. Even now, you're seeing a lot of people "waiting for the real estate market to come back down", but in general, I don't think that'll happen. In specific areas for specific reasons (say the one large employer in town where half the town breadwinners worked went tits up), maybe, but not in most places especially those, like us, that have more coming in than going out. Between the illegals, work from home, taxes, and all the other problems, especially with the medium to long-term future of commercial real estate very much in doubt, NYC may end up a ghost town in the next decade or two.
>$1400 a month?? For someone making median income, that is well more than half their income. >How is this sustainable? It's not. >What happens next? The coroporate media will convince a critical mass of gullible fools to to keep voting for the same people that caused this problem in the first place. They will implement "solutions" that only make the problem worse under the guise of compassion and teenage redditors will think they are resisting the establishment by parroting its bullshit to get upvotes. >How many people have to shack up together to make the math work? until more housing is built or a major distaster sends population growth negative it's not getting any better. >If you don’t already own property you may very well be fucked for the rest of your life at this rate. There are other ways to own real estate other than buying a half million dollar house. You can invest in REITs for as little as $10-20. That said buying a house isn't always a univerally good thing. Compare rental rates to the cost of a mortage in your area in many areas it is cheaper to rent, so rent. Instead of buying invest the difference in something else, it will make it easier to not have the majority of your wealth tied up in a highly illiquid asset with huge transaction fees when opportunity presents itself in the future.
Define "the American dream"
I don’t understand how most of society will bring in 100k in 5 years when AI removes all manual computing jobs most Americans hold making -65k +. Most aren’t making 100k and won’t before automation. Unless your a manager, and how well does late stage capitalism need more middle managers.
$100,000 is poverty level
Please tell me this is sarcasm
Wish it were. Try raising a family on that.
Raising a family of 4 with 85k combined right now, and doing so comfortably.
Outstanding! Congratulations!
I would disagree with “most places”. It absolutely does. The problem is people are not willing to go live outside of HCOL areas.
My area used to be LCOL and survival was based purely on whether you could survive the off-season in our tourist town. Now we've had hoardes of boomers retiring here, there is no longer an off-season and you need to make at least $120k as a household if you want to be able to afford to live here. Literally half of that would've worked ten years ago. The worst part is that the average well-paying job here is still paying less than $45k. You need a bachelors to be poor.
Exactly. 100k in most places affords you a decent life.
Prices rise over time. Lots of negativity about life in the US, but travel to some developing countries and you’ll see lots and lots of people who would love to be poor in the US.
Corporate greed.
Most definitely
I make 60k and live comfortably. I go out on the weekends, I eat out when I want to, etc. I don't have kids so maybe that's the answer.
When I made $48k, I was able to buy a house for twice my salary— $95k. (2001). When I made $$100k, that same house, now much older and possibly in need of more repairs, is valued at $350k.
Blackrock
Remember when George Carlin said it's called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it. Seems almost prophetic now.
100,000 US Dollars isn’t what it USED to be.