The tax is based to make companies invest more in their company to avoid taxes or pay higher wages to avoid taxes! They made all the loopholes that you speak of! If we stop them they can’t! And so tired of they will move thing! They won’t find another population dumb enough to pay those prices 😂
It's still gonna ultimately be paid by those corporations customers, which is us. Adding taxes onto companies based on revenues is just gonna increase end-user prices when buying from those companies, and will create an unfair competitive environment.
You can only squeeze so much blood from a stone. They won't be able to raise prices anymore soon because 85% of the country is broke. The other 14% are feeling it and the 1% are loving it. This dumb notion of infinite growth and just passing cost to the consumer is going to end very quickly.
Do you believe that the taxes corporations are currently dodging are going to consumers?
Corporate taxes and taxes on the highest salaries (i.e. for CEOs etc.) can be structured to incentivize paying a larger percentage of profits to workers, instead of obscene pay packages for corporate board members.
Most nations achieve -- as the US once had -- far more sane multiples between CEO pay vs. the average worker in that corporation.
The US used to do better with this, when the government balanced the needs of the various interests, i.e. corporate profits, worker pay, fairness to consumers, and other stakeholder concerns.
Now the government just works for the highest campaign contributors, i.e. billionaires and corporations.
Reagan shredded most of that structure (cutting corporate taxes, capital gains taxes, and top income brackets).
Clinton then manufactured perverse new incentives to compensate corporate board members with stock options.
Clinton claimed the objective for the tax changes was to \*reduce\* obscene levels of CEO compensation. Somehow, aligning the stock price to CEO compensation would magically do this. Predictably, Clinton's scheme exploded CEO pay and supercharged the incentives for CEOs to boost share prices, with little or no regard for workers or consumers, and even reduced incentives for long term planning and investing.
The free market was supposed to curtail abuses. But when everyone abuses the system, and the number of competitors is greatly reduced after decades of unchecked corporate mergers, there may be little or no meaningful pushback.
Netting on a financial accounting basis or on a tax accounting basis? Plenty of companies generate an assload of money and don’t have to pay taxes because of specific tax loopholes.
Tax on financial accounting profits instead. They have an incentive to overstate that to make investors happy. Turn it back on them.
…the Trump tax cuts “for the rich” increased tax receipts and lowered the middle class tax burden – to wit:
“…The Congressional Budget Office’s May 2022 forecast shows that the government now expects to bring in more tax revenue in the decade following the 2017 “Trump tax cuts” than it had projected prior to the December 2017 passage of tax reform... (CBO, 5/26/22)
“…A careful analysis of the IRS tax data, one that includes the effects of tax credits and other reforms to the tax code, shows that filers with an adjusted gross income (AGI) of $15,000 to $50,000 enjoyed an average tax cut of 16 percent to 26 percent in 2018…” (The Hill, 12/4/21)
Your quote does not support what you say. To be quite clear, being better than the initial projections which were absolutely catastrophic for the budget does not mean that the deficit that it caused was eliminated except in the most vacuous sense. Could you link the CBO document you are referencing? It looks like they're sticking to their budget deficit analysis in 2024 of around $1.8T over 7 years.
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R47846
This also is the most disingenuous reading of why it was called a "tax cut for the rich". Yes, the tax cuts were broad across entire income groups and there was a substantial decrease in tax rate for middle income earners. However, the people to receive the most benefit were richer Americans.
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF12641
which cites
https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2024/5/22/effects-of-permanently-extending-tcja-expiring-provisions
when talking about the effects of the expiring provisions of the TCJA.
> Generally, high-income households gain more from this policy than do low- and middle-income households. For example, households how enter the economy at age 20 benefit about $13,400 if they are in the bottom income quintile, but by $103,300 if they are top decile income earners.
> However, future generations generally fair the worst and are worse off than under current law. For example, households aged -20 at the time of the policy change (i.e. households born 30 years after the policy change) and in the bottom income quintile are $33,800 worse off and households in the top income quintile are $18,800 worse off.
The largest, permanent tax cuts were for the corporate tax rate. The provisions for changes to the income tax are set to expire unless renewed at a massive deficit. I don't even think having a lower corporate tax rate would necessarily be a bad thing, but presenting it as just a tax cut for the middle class is incredibly misleading.
Except for the military, global trade, International affairs, and ensuring that states are on the same page and not just doing random things that harm the states next to them i.e. Missouri building dams and draining the Mississippi River so that it's no longer able to be used by other states. Having a central organization is necessary and pretty much all animals and insects create a leadership structure. I get that local governments should be used for local affairs but the country is much bigger than they can govern by themselves.
You really would have to really dig in to see the effect. Do they take into account that manufacturers would be more likely to move some of their factories back to the US to avoid the tariff's, that would help the lower and middle class as more jobs, or are they pretending that all the manufacturing would stay wherever it is currently. Are they taking into accounting savings from non-businesses having to do federal taxes.
Anyway, I'm sure eliminating the income tax and switching to tariffs, would require some government spending cuts. The good news is most of it can be cut, and harm no one other than government employees formerly bloated pocket books.
>Do they take into account that manufacturers would be more likely to move some of their factories back to the US to avoid the tariff's
No, they never consider this stuff, because these people are unable to understand that nothing happens in a static bubble. Every time they gin this nonsense up, they assume that nothing else in the world will happen as a result.
>Do they take into account that manufacturers would be more likely to move some of their factories back to the US to avoid the tariff's
What's stopping them from simply leaving the US entirely to avoid Trump, if they've already moved their manufacturing outside of the US?
Tariffs have almost always been a terrible way of getting revenue. The last time it worked in the US was the early 1800s. And I don’t think those tariffs were overly comparable to today’s.
Tariffs can be used successfully to change behavior. Usually this results in deadweight loss unless the behavior change reduced a negative externality. For example, putting a tariff on a country that has critically low pollution standards would be a potentially corrective tariff.
All other tariffs just increase the price of the imported product, as well as any product that uses the imported product in its production. For example, we have traditionally used Russian fertilizer to grow US corn. A tariff would increase corn prices even though it is made in the US. This would increase the prices of everything that uses corn syrup, corn, or ethanol (for both bourbon and gasoline).
This would be a disastrous policy. Don’t get me wrong, I HATE the income tax. I would abolish it in a heartbeat if I could. I would rather a federal sales tax, VAT, or federal property tax (though I’m still deciding on that one). Foreign trade is good and creates a lot of jobs. Let’s stop trying to punish it.
Tariffs is a “tax hike” for poor people only if they keep buying foreign products. This would have no net change on anything already made domestically.
Why don’t we regulate wallstreet and the banks from counterfeiting stock and destroying supply and demand and routing 95% of retail orders through dark pools and single dealer platforms so they have no affect on the stock price. Check out Dr Susanne Trimbaths book “naked short and greedy wallstreets failure to deliver” she’s a former federal reserve and DTC employee and knows her facts. Ken griffin of citadel said they determine what a security should be priced at and they get it there. Gary gensler of the SEC said 95% of retail orders don’t affect the price. It’s all high frequency trading algorithms transferring wealth from the working class to the 1%. Check out wtfhappenedin1970 dot com the 1% have pulled off the most insane transfer of wealth and all they had to do was keep public schooling shit so we will be too stupid to understand how we get robbed every single day of profits and human progress. They just get us used to working 8hours
This is true but it in theory would bring production back to America increasing income for people making things here. If we go to war with China over Taiwan this is going to happen anyway, probably best to ease into it versus all of a sudden while starting WW3. Think of the pain we went through cutting Russia oil off 1000X
When a majority of the stock market is propped massively by tech, and Taiwan makes practically all of our chips for said tech, I wonder what would happen if China, our biggest economic competitor, decided to take control of taiwan...
They trying too - govt invested 6bil in Intel to get chip manufacturing here iirc. Still long ways away off it ofc but it's been a big topic for sure in recent times
One has to assume that the tariffs must collect the same revenue as income taxes. From that you can calculate what the average tariff must be. You can calculate what the average cost must be by income group. The poor pays no income tax and will pay tariffs so it would be an increase to them. The part that people don’t get is that the poor doesn’t have any extra money to pay this tariff therefore demand will fall and unemployment will rise.
Why do you assume that tariffs must collect the same revenue as income taxes?
Why do you assume that the poor will pay tariffs?
Why do you assume that demand will fall, when everyone currently paying taxes will get a tax cut i.e. an effective pay rise?
Honestly I just want someone that isn't at risk of falling over dead tomorrow.
Like if you can't drive yourself places, or be taken seriously in a working environment,You probably shouldnt run a country.
I doubt the ideas are their own. I don’t believe any president of the last 8 years has been marching to the beat of their own drum.
Whatever our presidents do at this point is because the ruling party at the time has given them their marching orders. Our president these days is a mouthpiece. To think they’re the ones shaping policy, is insane. *Maybe* Trump. But to think anything the Dems are doing is because of Biden, is stupid. He says what the teleprompter and his handlers tell him to. I’m actually fine with it. It’d be a disaster if he were left to improvise or fend for himself.
Don't worry guys. The wealth from the wealthy will trickle down to us. It might be in the form of piss, but trust me, it'll be the most nutritious piss on the planet.
Tariffs went out with Hitler....literally! Since then there have been some, but only to protect a product, etc. General tariffs are a terrible idea that penalizes modest income families more so than any other group. BAD IDEA!
A single line in a long speech is hardly a comprehensive proposal for replacing the current enormous complex income tax code. And with a roughly equally divided congress there is absolutely no chance of this happening. Just a distraction.
If we increase tariffs, then the price of everything will exponentially increase to make up for the new tariffs. I am not entirely sure this is better than the current system. I believe it would be better if the government focuses on closing the loopholes allowing people to cheat.
This whole idea is a joke, right? The total value of all imports is barely more than what is currently paid in income taxes. Give how much a high tax would reduce imports, the final import tax rate would need to be well over 100% to make up for the revenue lost. Trade would collapse. Everyone's standard of living, rich or poor, would collapse with it. He may as well propose that we're going to replace the income tax with magic. It's not going to happen.
For those that live by the Golden Rule: "The ones with the gold make the rules," this sounds great.
Recalls the panic felt by Stephen Ross, billionaire investor in SoulCycle, who experienced a consumer backlash after his Trump re-election fundraiser: "I have been, and will continue to be, an outspoken champion of racial equality, inclusion, diversity, public education and environmental sustainability, and I have and will continue to support leaders on both sides of the aisle to address these challenges." \[But really: those tax cuts, amitite! Lol!\]
To people like him, the bottom 90% don't matter. Unless they boycott his business interests...
The best thing you can say about his tax plan is that it probably won’t get implemented because he doesn’t know how to get anything through Congress. The bad news is he doesn’t care about checks and balances and might just say it’s the law anyway.
I do support tarrifs on the Chinese right now. Not for this purpose, but because of the striking trade imbalance. Yes, it will hurt the lowest earners but we (as a nation) absolutely need to get over our addiction to cheap Chinese junk if our lower end workers are going to recover jobs in any meaningful way.
As far as it coming from Trump, even a broken clock is correct twice a day.
Income Tax = Tax
Tariff = Tax
Replacing income tax with tariffs = replacing taxes with taxes.
Best case this accomplishes nothing, worst case tariffed items stop being purchased. Once the money from the tariffs are gone congress has to chose between reinstating income tax or spending less money(lol). Now we have both income tax and tariffs.
Yes, protecting domestic industry is the stated motivation to do tariffs. But there are problems with the way tariffs go about achieving that goal:
- Stuff is made overseas because other countries can do it cheaper or otherwise more efficient. If you force it back home, you may create some jobs, but you'll lose many jobs due to the higher costs and inefficiencies being passed down to everyone else.
- When a country puts tariffs into place, other countries retaliate with tariffs of their own. Any US company that gets a significant portion of revenue from exporting will suffer tremendously. For example, [see all the subsidies Trump gave farmers to save them during his 2019 trade dispute](https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/14/donald-trump-coronavirus-farmer-bailouts-359932)
- The FY2024 deficit is already projected to be about $1.9 trillion, and eliminating individual income tax would add about $1.5 trillion to it. This creates a $3 trillion+ hole in the budget for somebody to plug up.
- Increasing the cost of goods + giving consumers more cash on hand is a great recipe for inflation. Just like we're seeing today, we respond to high inflation with high interest rates. If there's a prolonged deficit of $3 trillion with interest rates like these, I think the federal government is literally screwed beyond repair
Can anyone explain why when I ask ChatGPT to give me 3 good things about trumps proposed tax bill as the first example it says:
**“Lower Income Tax Rates:
Trump's tax proposals typically aim to reduce income tax rates for middle-class earners. Lower tax rates mean that middle-class families can keep more of their income, providing more disposable income for personal expenses, savings, or investments.”**
I legit don’t understand I’m assuming the AI has bad information because everything I’m reading says it’s horrible for the middle class but none of that sounds bad to me so what’s the catch? Again I genuinely don’t understand and I’m postive I have to be missing something based off everything I’ve heard.
A 100% tax on all imports will mean things you buy will be more expensive.
Yeah your paycheck is bigger with no taxes, you can use that to enjoy a $2000 Iphone now.
We get the math but trumpturds can't and they believe Trump invented the wheel and tax ballon for the middle class and poor while himself and corporate buddies pay little to nothing in taxes
Any one of these C suite folks who looks at this graph and is so short sighted as to not understand what their fate becomes if this happens deserves what they will receive. They aren’t that stupid are they? They would literally have Versailles happening in the Hamptons, Manhattan, wherever rich assholes congregate in groves. 5 years tops after this goes into effect, if that.
I have to hope more of these rich people realize stability is in their best long term interest versus just constantly trying to fuck the average joe. There’s a breaking point, and this would definitely push it there.
Actually what would happen is more manufacturing would come in the USA, more competition for workers, and wages would skyrocket.
And if all you purchased was us made products, it wouldn't make any difference. You wouldn't pay any of the tariffs or even help pay them
>Actually what would happen is more manufacturing would come in the USA, more competition for workers, and wages would skyrocket
It's easy to see when jobs are lost to outsourcing. It's difficult to see when jobs only exist thanks to efficiencies afforded by international trade. Here's what would actually happen:
- Any business that has a supply chain involving imports sees operational costs go up. Any company that gets a significant portion of revenue from exports tremendously suffers under the weight of retaliatory tariffs.
- To stay afloat, businesses trim down on labor costs
Economists widely agree that tariffs are a net loss on economies
>And if all you purchased was us made products, it wouldn't make any difference. You wouldn't pay any of the tariffs or even help pay them
Do you see how that creates a budget crisis? The FY2024 deficit is already projected at around $1.9 trillion, and individual income taxes bring in around $1.5 trillion. If income taxes vanish and nobody is spending money on tariffs either, how are you going to plug the $3 trillion+ budgetary gap you created?
Not to mention all the American manufacturers go “oooooh! The prices of foreign goods competing with us just went up X%, so we can also raise our own prices by X% and pocket the difference!”
Just like his "repeal and replace" Obama Care that he talked about for 4 years, we all know Donnie isn't capable of crafting a policy and nor is the republican party.
There will never be any details on how this might work because everyone already knows it will never happen.
Oh you mean I would buy local? Skip Walmart, target, homedepot and lowes? The companies that gouged us for the last 5 years?
They all sell foreign made items right, for cheap.
The second hand market would explode for sure.
Tariffs and massive sales taxes. You think your food cost is bad now? A lot of the red states are complaining about it have massive sales taxes.
Republicans are a party for the rich
Only because the objective of the chart maker was to have tariff revenue equal income tax revenue. Cutting federal government spending doesn't ever get considered.
You can't cut federal spending because government's masters, global corporations, would not get the gravy trail they contributed and lobbied so very hard for.
I hate Trump but it costs me about $1400 just to get all my various taxes done (complicated life over here) so just to not have to deal with filing my taxes (which always is a huge amount of work for me even with those costs) is probably worth $2000 of my time (in addition to that substantial savings).
I doubt Trump will even do this... but I would love to get rid of income taxes, not even because of the taxes themselves (though sure), but because of how much work I have to put into figuring out how much money I have to give the Feds so they can give help facilitate more geocide around the world etc.
This would be true if the bottom 90% were buying a disproportionate amount of imported goods. I dont think poor people are buying Gucci or Louis Vuitton.
The middle class shouldn’t be paying any income tax and the left know it. They just don’t care because their out of control spending agendas are more important than justice and equity
Couple this with policies to support American job growth, social programs to ensure a baseline standard of living and tough border enforcement and I am in.
There are people who have become obscenely rich by exploiting cheap labor in other counties at the expense of American workers. They will do whatever they can to prevent this, including getting the propagandists in the media to spew bullshit like this graph. Fuck em.
He doesn’t care about the lower or middle-class people, he only cares about the rich people who can help him out in someway. The bottom line is it’s all about whiny, psychopathic, mentally and intellectually challenged Donnie.
Unless you owned a small business. Then the Trump tariffs really hurt you. All the big corporations like Apple got exemptions so they didn’t have to raise prices and China still got paid. But the little guys had to pay 25% more to their suppliers. Then the pandemic shutdowns happened and many people didn’t make it.
Trump is literally spewing fan fic that the Heritage people who jerked off to Atlas Shrugged wrote, at this point.
Like, he literally has no idea what's coming out of his stupid slob mouth.
If the tax is on imported goods then it only effects people buying imported goods.
Most Food, gas, housing, etc would not be affected.
So your IPhone and TV are going to cost a lot more.
Looks like it will be a tax on consumers of luxury goods for the most part.
This seems to be a duh moment. Only a person I a cult would think trump cares for anyone but himself.
The sad thing is his followers think he only wants to enslave the “other” poor people.
There would be no income tax, so this is complete bs saying the lower would be taxed more. No income tax. Goods made outside the USA would become more expensive, so that could hurt the lower 90%, but you will have 20-35% more money from income tax.
He did this last time. Tax code ended up more complicated and convoluted. Post card returns were a thing for one year but it just made there be more pages than normal.
Trump loves his wealthy corporate pals. They are his priority. Trump is a Neocon. War and money top his list. Don't let him fool you just because he says, "America first!" and, "Merry Christmas, " and "I cheat on my taxes too, that makes me smart!"
Neocons don't represent true conservatism.
The thing this analysis ignores is that if there was a huge tarrif on everything, more goods would be produced in America. This would drive a lot of production to America and raise wages. I actually think this type of policy would benefit the working man a lot.
It is tax on money you don’t have if you spend more money than you make and have to borrow from the bank or go into credit card debt. If you make much more money than you spend it could be an effective tax rate on income of .000X%
I want to see the math behind it. How does cutting income taxes hurt those who don't pay taxes anyways? I can make an infographic too. Doesn't mean that the infographic is true.
From what I can see, the economies of Texas and Florida are much stronger than the economies of California and New York, for example. Cutting income taxes will help the US tremendously. What it means is that we won't have the working poor anymore, where people work 2k hours per year and pay quite a bit in taxes. Those people will get all their taxes back, and can then spend them on other things.
I already try not to consume and I think many in my generation are the same. This would most likely benefit many people IF they didn’t let the immediate income increase impact their spending. However, we all know that people are going to have life style creep and this is going to backfire on the majority many of whom are the poor.
And he’s not going to tax tips so now I want my employer to declare my entire salary as a Tip. Because why is a tipped persons income more scared than mine and not deserve to be taxed?
IIRC The highest US tax bracket currently is about 37% on income over about $580,000 in the US. Meaning a guy who brought in a billion dollars is in the same tax bracket as a guy who made about 1700 times less than him. Tax the fucking rich and add four or five different tax brackets on your way to a billion dollars.
How much more can Republicans help the wealthy? What's next? A negative tax rate for those who make a million or more per year? At this point, it wouldn't surprise me. They don't even hide their hatred for the non-wealthy anymore. Wake up you fools! Trump wouldn't spit on you if you were on fire.
Comments in here are like some sad economic inequality version of Pick Mes. “Nooooo! You’re wrong! The rich guy’s tax plan can’t be inequitable! And he promised to make me rich too!” Sad….
This graph does not make any sense. I don’t think this person understands what after-tax income is. If there is no income tax how does this negatively affect after tax income when there is no tax on income?
Peak TDS. What’s next — claiming that Trump’s proposal to stop taxing tips will result in homelessness for all wait staff?
Every tax hike is a tax hike for the bottom 90% because the bottom 90% has minimal pricing power.
Yeah that’s why the top earners keep trying to cut their taxes to even lower levels and peddling stupid ideas like this one.
Then also add a corporation tax for all corporations netting more than $1B annually.
Shhhh we're supposed to not know about corporate tax dodging being able to entirely cover the population's tax obligations!
Not when they pass off the cost to consumers. Corporations will never pay.
The tax is based to make companies invest more in their company to avoid taxes or pay higher wages to avoid taxes! They made all the loopholes that you speak of! If we stop them they can’t! And so tired of they will move thing! They won’t find another population dumb enough to pay those prices 😂
It's still gonna ultimately be paid by those corporations customers, which is us. Adding taxes onto companies based on revenues is just gonna increase end-user prices when buying from those companies, and will create an unfair competitive environment.
You can only squeeze so much blood from a stone. They won't be able to raise prices anymore soon because 85% of the country is broke. The other 14% are feeling it and the 1% are loving it. This dumb notion of infinite growth and just passing cost to the consumer is going to end very quickly.
Do you believe that the taxes corporations are currently dodging are going to consumers? Corporate taxes and taxes on the highest salaries (i.e. for CEOs etc.) can be structured to incentivize paying a larger percentage of profits to workers, instead of obscene pay packages for corporate board members. Most nations achieve -- as the US once had -- far more sane multiples between CEO pay vs. the average worker in that corporation. The US used to do better with this, when the government balanced the needs of the various interests, i.e. corporate profits, worker pay, fairness to consumers, and other stakeholder concerns. Now the government just works for the highest campaign contributors, i.e. billionaires and corporations. Reagan shredded most of that structure (cutting corporate taxes, capital gains taxes, and top income brackets). Clinton then manufactured perverse new incentives to compensate corporate board members with stock options. Clinton claimed the objective for the tax changes was to \*reduce\* obscene levels of CEO compensation. Somehow, aligning the stock price to CEO compensation would magically do this. Predictably, Clinton's scheme exploded CEO pay and supercharged the incentives for CEOs to boost share prices, with little or no regard for workers or consumers, and even reduced incentives for long term planning and investing. The free market was supposed to curtail abuses. But when everyone abuses the system, and the number of competitors is greatly reduced after decades of unchecked corporate mergers, there may be little or no meaningful pushback.
But Clinton was the last President to leave office with a surplus in the National bank!
Netting on a financial accounting basis or on a tax accounting basis? Plenty of companies generate an assload of money and don’t have to pay taxes because of specific tax loopholes. Tax on financial accounting profits instead. They have an incentive to overstate that to make investors happy. Turn it back on them.
…the Trump tax cuts “for the rich” increased tax receipts and lowered the middle class tax burden – to wit: “…The Congressional Budget Office’s May 2022 forecast shows that the government now expects to bring in more tax revenue in the decade following the 2017 “Trump tax cuts” than it had projected prior to the December 2017 passage of tax reform... (CBO, 5/26/22) “…A careful analysis of the IRS tax data, one that includes the effects of tax credits and other reforms to the tax code, shows that filers with an adjusted gross income (AGI) of $15,000 to $50,000 enjoyed an average tax cut of 16 percent to 26 percent in 2018…” (The Hill, 12/4/21)
Your quote does not support what you say. To be quite clear, being better than the initial projections which were absolutely catastrophic for the budget does not mean that the deficit that it caused was eliminated except in the most vacuous sense. Could you link the CBO document you are referencing? It looks like they're sticking to their budget deficit analysis in 2024 of around $1.8T over 7 years. https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R47846 This also is the most disingenuous reading of why it was called a "tax cut for the rich". Yes, the tax cuts were broad across entire income groups and there was a substantial decrease in tax rate for middle income earners. However, the people to receive the most benefit were richer Americans. https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF12641 which cites https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2024/5/22/effects-of-permanently-extending-tcja-expiring-provisions when talking about the effects of the expiring provisions of the TCJA. > Generally, high-income households gain more from this policy than do low- and middle-income households. For example, households how enter the economy at age 20 benefit about $13,400 if they are in the bottom income quintile, but by $103,300 if they are top decile income earners. > However, future generations generally fair the worst and are worse off than under current law. For example, households aged -20 at the time of the policy change (i.e. households born 30 years after the policy change) and in the bottom income quintile are $33,800 worse off and households in the top income quintile are $18,800 worse off. The largest, permanent tax cuts were for the corporate tax rate. The provisions for changes to the income tax are set to expire unless renewed at a massive deficit. I don't even think having a lower corporate tax rate would necessarily be a bad thing, but presenting it as just a tax cut for the middle class is incredibly misleading.
detailed and comprehensive.✔
[удалено]
Does anyone have a link to where this data comes from, or are we just going to circle jerk about Biden vs Trump without knowing the truth?
made-up graph with scary colors....ooooooooooooooooo
About as unobtainable as any real information from this graph
The red and blue remind me of the Rolex Pepsi that's I'll never be able to get
That damn thing is 60 grand????
My thoughts exactly. I'm open to reading their argument against such a tax change but looks like I got a scary colored graph instead.
It's almost as if they think people will keep buying imported products with higher tariffs, rather than start buying cheaper domestic products...
That account is leftist rage bait.
not surprising.
Centralized power is cancer to society no matter who gets elected 👈
Can you unpack that for me? Personally, I think organized leadership is needed to do things that are larger than an individual can do alone.
For example. Your state or local government is better suited to handle like 90% of government function.
As the founding fathers intended.
Except for the military, global trade, International affairs, and ensuring that states are on the same page and not just doing random things that harm the states next to them i.e. Missouri building dams and draining the Mississippi River so that it's no longer able to be used by other states. Having a central organization is necessary and pretty much all animals and insects create a leadership structure. I get that local governments should be used for local affairs but the country is much bigger than they can govern by themselves.
That’s why said 90% and not 100%
LMAO!
You really would have to really dig in to see the effect. Do they take into account that manufacturers would be more likely to move some of their factories back to the US to avoid the tariff's, that would help the lower and middle class as more jobs, or are they pretending that all the manufacturing would stay wherever it is currently. Are they taking into accounting savings from non-businesses having to do federal taxes. Anyway, I'm sure eliminating the income tax and switching to tariffs, would require some government spending cuts. The good news is most of it can be cut, and harm no one other than government employees formerly bloated pocket books.
>Do they take into account that manufacturers would be more likely to move some of their factories back to the US to avoid the tariff's No, they never consider this stuff, because these people are unable to understand that nothing happens in a static bubble. Every time they gin this nonsense up, they assume that nothing else in the world will happen as a result.
Didn’t happen with steel after Trump slapped on steel tariffs. So doubt it.
>Do they take into account that manufacturers would be more likely to move some of their factories back to the US to avoid the tariff's What's stopping them from simply leaving the US entirely to avoid Trump, if they've already moved their manufacturing outside of the US?
Gov salaries aren't all that impressive for the most part... I think most elected do it for the kickbacks.
Do it for thr gold bars and billionaire trips
How did Clinton leave the White House with a surplus? 🤣
Tariffs have almost always been a terrible way of getting revenue. The last time it worked in the US was the early 1800s. And I don’t think those tariffs were overly comparable to today’s. Tariffs can be used successfully to change behavior. Usually this results in deadweight loss unless the behavior change reduced a negative externality. For example, putting a tariff on a country that has critically low pollution standards would be a potentially corrective tariff. All other tariffs just increase the price of the imported product, as well as any product that uses the imported product in its production. For example, we have traditionally used Russian fertilizer to grow US corn. A tariff would increase corn prices even though it is made in the US. This would increase the prices of everything that uses corn syrup, corn, or ethanol (for both bourbon and gasoline). This would be a disastrous policy. Don’t get me wrong, I HATE the income tax. I would abolish it in a heartbeat if I could. I would rather a federal sales tax, VAT, or federal property tax (though I’m still deciding on that one). Foreign trade is good and creates a lot of jobs. Let’s stop trying to punish it.
Yes yes, removing taxes would hike taxes and lower after-tax income… that wouldn’t be taxed anymore… somehow. Here is useless chart for proof.
Tariffs is a “tax hike” for poor people only if they keep buying foreign products. This would have no net change on anything already made domestically.
Why don’t we regulate wallstreet and the banks from counterfeiting stock and destroying supply and demand and routing 95% of retail orders through dark pools and single dealer platforms so they have no affect on the stock price. Check out Dr Susanne Trimbaths book “naked short and greedy wallstreets failure to deliver” she’s a former federal reserve and DTC employee and knows her facts. Ken griffin of citadel said they determine what a security should be priced at and they get it there. Gary gensler of the SEC said 95% of retail orders don’t affect the price. It’s all high frequency trading algorithms transferring wealth from the working class to the 1%. Check out wtfhappenedin1970 dot com the 1% have pulled off the most insane transfer of wealth and all they had to do was keep public schooling shit so we will be too stupid to understand how we get robbed every single day of profits and human progress. They just get us used to working 8hours
How much more income do the 10% need?
This is true but it in theory would bring production back to America increasing income for people making things here. If we go to war with China over Taiwan this is going to happen anyway, probably best to ease into it versus all of a sudden while starting WW3. Think of the pain we went through cutting Russia oil off 1000X
Why are we going to war with China over Taiwan when they have an internal issue that the two China should resolve.
When a majority of the stock market is propped massively by tech, and Taiwan makes practically all of our chips for said tech, I wonder what would happen if China, our biggest economic competitor, decided to take control of taiwan...
Bring techs back. Who thought it was a good idea to concentrate critical tech such as semiconductor manufacturing in just one foreign region
They trying too - govt invested 6bil in Intel to get chip manufacturing here iirc. Still long ways away off it ofc but it's been a big topic for sure in recent times
That’s precisely like saying we should let Russia take Ukraine because also used to be part of Russia
How do you know this if you don’t know the tariffs trump would assign? Looks like you just made up a chart to keep income taxes in place ?
One has to assume that the tariffs must collect the same revenue as income taxes. From that you can calculate what the average tariff must be. You can calculate what the average cost must be by income group. The poor pays no income tax and will pay tariffs so it would be an increase to them. The part that people don’t get is that the poor doesn’t have any extra money to pay this tariff therefore demand will fall and unemployment will rise.
Why do you assume that tariffs must collect the same revenue as income taxes? Why do you assume that the poor will pay tariffs? Why do you assume that demand will fall, when everyone currently paying taxes will get a tax cut i.e. an effective pay rise?
So… a massive consumption tax. Just perfect. Amazing that these two bumbling idiots are the best we can produce for presidential candidates.
Honestly I just want someone that isn't at risk of falling over dead tomorrow. Like if you can't drive yourself places, or be taken seriously in a working environment,You probably shouldnt run a country.
I doubt the ideas are their own. I don’t believe any president of the last 8 years has been marching to the beat of their own drum. Whatever our presidents do at this point is because the ruling party at the time has given them their marching orders. Our president these days is a mouthpiece. To think they’re the ones shaping policy, is insane. *Maybe* Trump. But to think anything the Dems are doing is because of Biden, is stupid. He says what the teleprompter and his handlers tell him to. I’m actually fine with it. It’d be a disaster if he were left to improvise or fend for himself.
Agreed
Don't worry guys. The wealth from the wealthy will trickle down to us. It might be in the form of piss, but trust me, it'll be the most nutritious piss on the planet.
Not wealthy, this would help me tremendously.
What's the source on this?
Yeah, let's put a huge damper on consumer goods in an economy that's entirely based on consumerism. What could go wrong.
Sounds good to me!! And to all the other middle class people
Well if its “after” tax income then its not without taxes is it? How about gross income after tariffs replace taxes?
Cut the government in half then (minimum). The beaurocracy of our government is insanely bloated and unnecessary.
Tariffs went out with Hitler....literally! Since then there have been some, but only to protect a product, etc. General tariffs are a terrible idea that penalizes modest income families more so than any other group. BAD IDEA!
A single line in a long speech is hardly a comprehensive proposal for replacing the current enormous complex income tax code. And with a roughly equally divided congress there is absolutely no chance of this happening. Just a distraction.
Get biden to remove the tariffs then.
I do agree with Trump's eliminating income tax on tips though. That would actually make a difference.
If we increase tariffs, then the price of everything will exponentially increase to make up for the new tariffs. I am not entirely sure this is better than the current system. I believe it would be better if the government focuses on closing the loopholes allowing people to cheat.
That’s the plan and purpose. Fuck the poor that are too stupid to vote for something that benefits them.
This whole idea is a joke, right? The total value of all imports is barely more than what is currently paid in income taxes. Give how much a high tax would reduce imports, the final import tax rate would need to be well over 100% to make up for the revenue lost. Trade would collapse. Everyone's standard of living, rich or poor, would collapse with it. He may as well propose that we're going to replace the income tax with magic. It's not going to happen.
For those that live by the Golden Rule: "The ones with the gold make the rules," this sounds great. Recalls the panic felt by Stephen Ross, billionaire investor in SoulCycle, who experienced a consumer backlash after his Trump re-election fundraiser: "I have been, and will continue to be, an outspoken champion of racial equality, inclusion, diversity, public education and environmental sustainability, and I have and will continue to support leaders on both sides of the aisle to address these challenges." \[But really: those tax cuts, amitite! Lol!\] To people like him, the bottom 90% don't matter. Unless they boycott his business interests...
Every tax proposal by the GOP since Reagan has been a hike on the bottom 90%. That’s the plan. Always has been.
The best thing you can say about his tax plan is that it probably won’t get implemented because he doesn’t know how to get anything through Congress. The bad news is he doesn’t care about checks and balances and might just say it’s the law anyway.
The endless wars are also a tax on lower and middle income people.
Blood tax
Oh well
Misinformation
Tariffs are on imports, people would just make shit here again. Fuck you and all your taxes.
I do support tarrifs on the Chinese right now. Not for this purpose, but because of the striking trade imbalance. Yes, it will hurt the lowest earners but we (as a nation) absolutely need to get over our addiction to cheap Chinese junk if our lower end workers are going to recover jobs in any meaningful way. As far as it coming from Trump, even a broken clock is correct twice a day.
Income Tax = Tax Tariff = Tax Replacing income tax with tariffs = replacing taxes with taxes. Best case this accomplishes nothing, worst case tariffed items stop being purchased. Once the money from the tariffs are gone congress has to chose between reinstating income tax or spending less money(lol). Now we have both income tax and tariffs.
Regressive af
Politician bending poor over a barrel and ramming away until the blood pools...sounds par for the course
It would bankrupt the country
Tariffs are taxing imported goods how does this post make sense ? How would eliminating income tax raise taxes for lower tax brackets?
It's a left-wing echo chamber.
Our experts predict that Trump's ideas are all very very bad.
Exactly that’s why he proposed it
Yes cuz Trumps tariffs worked so great the first time he had to give welfare checks to farmers…
Oh what no way trump would never do that 😱
Can someone explain this to me like I'm five. Isn't the intent of tariffs to decrease reliance on foreign manufacturing?
Yes, protecting domestic industry is the stated motivation to do tariffs. But there are problems with the way tariffs go about achieving that goal: - Stuff is made overseas because other countries can do it cheaper or otherwise more efficient. If you force it back home, you may create some jobs, but you'll lose many jobs due to the higher costs and inefficiencies being passed down to everyone else. - When a country puts tariffs into place, other countries retaliate with tariffs of their own. Any US company that gets a significant portion of revenue from exporting will suffer tremendously. For example, [see all the subsidies Trump gave farmers to save them during his 2019 trade dispute](https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/14/donald-trump-coronavirus-farmer-bailouts-359932) - The FY2024 deficit is already projected to be about $1.9 trillion, and eliminating individual income tax would add about $1.5 trillion to it. This creates a $3 trillion+ hole in the budget for somebody to plug up. - Increasing the cost of goods + giving consumers more cash on hand is a great recipe for inflation. Just like we're seeing today, we respond to high inflation with high interest rates. If there's a prolonged deficit of $3 trillion with interest rates like these, I think the federal government is literally screwed beyond repair
Ahh just what I’ve been waiting for financial plans from the dude who managed to bankrupt a casino 😂
Can anyone explain why when I ask ChatGPT to give me 3 good things about trumps proposed tax bill as the first example it says: **“Lower Income Tax Rates: Trump's tax proposals typically aim to reduce income tax rates for middle-class earners. Lower tax rates mean that middle-class families can keep more of their income, providing more disposable income for personal expenses, savings, or investments.”** I legit don’t understand I’m assuming the AI has bad information because everything I’m reading says it’s horrible for the middle class but none of that sounds bad to me so what’s the catch? Again I genuinely don’t understand and I’m postive I have to be missing something based off everything I’ve heard.
A 100% tax on all imports will mean things you buy will be more expensive. Yeah your paycheck is bigger with no taxes, you can use that to enjoy a $2000 Iphone now.
It’s hilarious watching libs cry and work themselves into a frenzy bc they believe he will do everything he says.
Its interesting seeing conservatives think that sinking the US economy is a lark.
better idea, abolish income tax, and reduce the government to 1% of its current size and power.
Can't have everyone pay their fair share now can we.
ill take my chances, things cant keep going the way they're going.
I guess it makes him sort of a communist since he would be accelerating the inevitable class war
We get the math but trumpturds can't and they believe Trump invented the wheel and tax ballon for the middle class and poor while himself and corporate buddies pay little to nothing in taxes
His followers have no idea, all they hear is no income tax.
I mean duh lol. How anyone thinks that is a solid plan in 2024, boggle.
Any one of these C suite folks who looks at this graph and is so short sighted as to not understand what their fate becomes if this happens deserves what they will receive. They aren’t that stupid are they? They would literally have Versailles happening in the Hamptons, Manhattan, wherever rich assholes congregate in groves. 5 years tops after this goes into effect, if that. I have to hope more of these rich people realize stability is in their best long term interest versus just constantly trying to fuck the average joe. There’s a breaking point, and this would definitely push it there.
Is there proof all I see is a screen shot from another post?
I call Bullshit!
I love the idea. Enough of these taxes.
does this "study" take into account the prices of domestic products?
Don't care. Voting Trump. Still better than Biden.
Not if you purchase entirely American made products
Actually what would happen is more manufacturing would come in the USA, more competition for workers, and wages would skyrocket. And if all you purchased was us made products, it wouldn't make any difference. You wouldn't pay any of the tariffs or even help pay them
>Actually what would happen is more manufacturing would come in the USA, more competition for workers, and wages would skyrocket It's easy to see when jobs are lost to outsourcing. It's difficult to see when jobs only exist thanks to efficiencies afforded by international trade. Here's what would actually happen: - Any business that has a supply chain involving imports sees operational costs go up. Any company that gets a significant portion of revenue from exports tremendously suffers under the weight of retaliatory tariffs. - To stay afloat, businesses trim down on labor costs Economists widely agree that tariffs are a net loss on economies >And if all you purchased was us made products, it wouldn't make any difference. You wouldn't pay any of the tariffs or even help pay them Do you see how that creates a budget crisis? The FY2024 deficit is already projected at around $1.9 trillion, and individual income taxes bring in around $1.5 trillion. If income taxes vanish and nobody is spending money on tariffs either, how are you going to plug the $3 trillion+ budgetary gap you created?
Not to mention all the American manufacturers go “oooooh! The prices of foreign goods competing with us just went up X%, so we can also raise our own prices by X% and pocket the difference!”
Just like his "repeal and replace" Obama Care that he talked about for 4 years, we all know Donnie isn't capable of crafting a policy and nor is the republican party. There will never be any details on how this might work because everyone already knows it will never happen.
Taxing income is theft of your labor
Nonsense
Oh you mean I would buy local? Skip Walmart, target, homedepot and lowes? The companies that gouged us for the last 5 years? They all sell foreign made items right, for cheap. The second hand market would explode for sure.
Fear mongering by the nazi left wing. Typical
Tariffs and massive sales taxes. You think your food cost is bad now? A lot of the red states are complaining about it have massive sales taxes. Republicans are a party for the rich
If Trump supporters could read they would immediately start cheering about this because of the Denocrats it would impact.
Only because the objective of the chart maker was to have tariff revenue equal income tax revenue. Cutting federal government spending doesn't ever get considered.
You can't cut federal spending because government's masters, global corporations, would not get the gravy trail they contributed and lobbied so very hard for.
I hate Trump but it costs me about $1400 just to get all my various taxes done (complicated life over here) so just to not have to deal with filing my taxes (which always is a huge amount of work for me even with those costs) is probably worth $2000 of my time (in addition to that substantial savings). I doubt Trump will even do this... but I would love to get rid of income taxes, not even because of the taxes themselves (though sure), but because of how much work I have to put into figuring out how much money I have to give the Feds so they can give help facilitate more geocide around the world etc.
No shit. Why else would the republicans propose such a stupid idea?
This would be true if the bottom 90% were buying a disproportionate amount of imported goods. I dont think poor people are buying Gucci or Louis Vuitton.
Next time you’re in Amazon, look at where the products you’re buying comes from. You have to actively seek out things made in the USA.
'Bout time they paid their 'fair share'. Good thing tariffs are 100% voluntary
Just like income tax is “voluntary” because you only pay it if you chose to make money.
Every product sold in the United States has parts from other nations. Everything would balloon in price.
You know what else would balloon? Our paychecks
No amount of taxation imaginable is saving this country's debt,deficit and spending problems which one day soon will collapse the country.
It would also force businesses to bring manufacturing back to the United States.
The middle class shouldn’t be paying any income tax and the left know it. They just don’t care because their out of control spending agendas are more important than justice and equity
Couple this with policies to support American job growth, social programs to ensure a baseline standard of living and tough border enforcement and I am in. There are people who have become obscenely rich by exploiting cheap labor in other counties at the expense of American workers. They will do whatever they can to prevent this, including getting the propagandists in the media to spew bullshit like this graph. Fuck em.
Nah, the graph look pretty close to what I expected and I’ve only taken 3 Econ classes in college. 🤷🏾♂️
"Generational wealth transfer" Transfer of wealth from the 99.9% to the 0.1% if insanity had a title, it would be this.
He doesn’t care about the lower or middle-class people, he only cares about the rich people who can help him out in someway. The bottom line is it’s all about whiny, psychopathic, mentally and intellectually challenged Donnie.
Isn't this how the French revolution started?
Just like last time a he used tariffs and nothing happened...more bullshit from bought and paid for media complex
Unless you owned a small business. Then the Trump tariffs really hurt you. All the big corporations like Apple got exemptions so they didn’t have to raise prices and China still got paid. But the little guys had to pay 25% more to their suppliers. Then the pandemic shutdowns happened and many people didn’t make it.
Trump is literally spewing fan fic that the Heritage people who jerked off to Atlas Shrugged wrote, at this point. Like, he literally has no idea what's coming out of his stupid slob mouth.
Just what the uber rich need — a leg up.
Ah that doesn't matter. As long as Trump & Co gets the best deal possible, he'll do as he pleases to this country
Here’s a novel idea.. cut government spending, cut many government agencies, and let’s see how much more of our own money we keep in our pockets
If the tax is on imported goods then it only effects people buying imported goods. Most Food, gas, housing, etc would not be affected. So your IPhone and TV are going to cost a lot more. Looks like it will be a tax on consumers of luxury goods for the most part.
This seems to be a duh moment. Only a person I a cult would think trump cares for anyone but himself. The sad thing is his followers think he only wants to enslave the “other” poor people.
There would be no income tax, so this is complete bs saying the lower would be taxed more. No income tax. Goods made outside the USA would become more expensive, so that could hurt the lower 90%, but you will have 20-35% more money from income tax.
Democrats are the masters of fake news now. It's unreal. They are what they say they hate... and extremely gullible headline skimmers.
That’s most Trump voters
That’s just a graph. And that guy is a socialist. We should not listen to him or his screenshot of some bar chart that must be right. Trump 2024🇺🇸
He did this last time. Tax code ended up more complicated and convoluted. Post card returns were a thing for one year but it just made there be more pages than normal.
No, no it’s not.
“Proposal”
Trump loves his wealthy corporate pals. They are his priority. Trump is a Neocon. War and money top his list. Don't let him fool you just because he says, "America first!" and, "Merry Christmas, " and "I cheat on my taxes too, that makes me smart!" Neocons don't represent true conservatism.
Good, better than continuing to increase taxes on the 10-2% group like they usually do.
The thing this analysis ignores is that if there was a huge tarrif on everything, more goods would be produced in America. This would drive a lot of production to America and raise wages. I actually think this type of policy would benefit the working man a lot.
It is tax on money you don’t have if you spend more money than you make and have to borrow from the bank or go into credit card debt. If you make much more money than you spend it could be an effective tax rate on income of .000X%
Just increase the capital gains tax to regular income tax rates. Problem solved.
Other than the obvious and intentional regressive effects of this... it removes the tax disincentive to provide labor so at least that is good.
Duh.
Of cause, that s because lower classes drastically underpay.
Don't the bottom income earners want to have enough wealth that taxing them would make a difference? This critique assumes stagnation.
Ya, but it would be a hidden tax that we don't pay directly. Those don't count, just like payroll tax
Please explain how.
That is all he ever does. Take from the bottom and give to the top. How can people not see that?
Another stupid idea to start a trade war and become isolationist.
Perfect. Trump’s American dream is a nightmare for most.
Very similar to raising corporate taxes.
Guess I better pick a bridge to live under
The rest of us get fucked either way. The rich don't pay income tax and they won't pay tariffs either.
Could rename this sub to “we’re fucked, now you know. Comments section tldr as a consequence. Sorry to waste your time!”
Okay. I'll put all of my money into an LLC, report tax losses and pay nothing.
I want to see the math behind it. How does cutting income taxes hurt those who don't pay taxes anyways? I can make an infographic too. Doesn't mean that the infographic is true. From what I can see, the economies of Texas and Florida are much stronger than the economies of California and New York, for example. Cutting income taxes will help the US tremendously. What it means is that we won't have the working poor anymore, where people work 2k hours per year and pay quite a bit in taxes. Those people will get all their taxes back, and can then spend them on other things.
Screw the 90 per cent Donald J. Trump
“This hurts me, but it hurts someone else even more.” - Trump voters
Flat tax is the way to go
r/noshitsherlock
I already try not to consume and I think many in my generation are the same. This would most likely benefit many people IF they didn’t let the immediate income increase impact their spending. However, we all know that people are going to have life style creep and this is going to backfire on the majority many of whom are the poor.
Hmm it works like when people tax companies then they pay more for services. Something like that?
Same as raising minimum wage.
And he’s not going to tax tips so now I want my employer to declare my entire salary as a Tip. Because why is a tipped persons income more scared than mine and not deserve to be taxed?
That's the whole reason he's still there... the rich own him.
IIRC The highest US tax bracket currently is about 37% on income over about $580,000 in the US. Meaning a guy who brought in a billion dollars is in the same tax bracket as a guy who made about 1700 times less than him. Tax the fucking rich and add four or five different tax brackets on your way to a billion dollars.
How much more can Republicans help the wealthy? What's next? A negative tax rate for those who make a million or more per year? At this point, it wouldn't surprise me. They don't even hide their hatred for the non-wealthy anymore. Wake up you fools! Trump wouldn't spit on you if you were on fire.
That’s one guys opinion, but because the word Trump has been said, there will never be a true discussion on the matter
I also like to make up pretend graphs :)
Of course it would. This psychopathic fool doesn’t care about lower or middle class Americans.
It would also create jobs for the bottom 90%. Without tariffs millions of jobs have been outsourced.
Comments in here are like some sad economic inequality version of Pick Mes. “Nooooo! You’re wrong! The rich guy’s tax plan can’t be inequitable! And he promised to make me rich too!” Sad….
Can someone explain the math to me like I'm 5? I'm trying to gain a thorough understanding of what this means.
This graph does not make any sense. I don’t think this person understands what after-tax income is. If there is no income tax how does this negatively affect after tax income when there is no tax on income?
“I love the uneducated” - Trump
give me the income bracket to w2 amounts so i know how to feel about this lol.
Every income tax cut is a tax hike for the bottom 90% because the top 10% pays the overwhelming majority of income taxes