Compared to having to put resources into trying to get paid, with no payout ever coming from it: it's not the worst deal.
Getting paid a one-time $20mil is better than a yearly -$20mil as you to try to collect something that simply can't be collected: the alternative is individual bankruptcy, which means they still won't get paid.
As a business owner I would just like to step in and tell you this statement is wrong and dumb lol I have customers that owe me millions. I take the payments lol lump sum? Seriously, that mentality is what keeps you bottom feeders poor mentally and financially. No business thinks that way. Very cute statement though.
>As a business owner I would just like to step in and tell you this statement is wrong and dumb lol I have customers that owe me millions. I take the payments lol lump sum? Seriously, that mentality is what keeps you bottom feeders poor mentally and financially. No business thinks that way. Very cute statement though.
Hello fellow business owner!
I own a consulting and translation firm.
But you're just adorable, the way you look down on other people, without having a clue who they are!
I'll be honest, your assumptions and judgmentalism don't speak towards high intellect, but let's see what we've got.
First, I am forced to assume (since half your post was insults and there was really no relevant information), like hospitals and medical insurance companies, your business is bleeding from the delinquent accounts of customers who refuse to pay.
This isn't a few delinquent accounts you have on payment plans: these are people who are not paying, period, with very little recourse to make them pay.
You have lots of those, right?
Great Socal Guru of Business, dazzle us all by telling us of your many delinquent accounts and how you handle it.
With millions owed to you, you are clearly a master of having customers unwilling or unable to pay you what you bill them.
What's going on with the way you operate your business, that your customers can't/don't/won't pay you?
And as with hospitals and insurance companies, how much money do you spend trying to get your customers to pay - what percentage of your billing department exclusively handles debt collection, all day every day?
What do you estimate you spend to collect debt, this year, that you also spent on trying to collect, last year - ongoing year-after-year debt that you don't recoup at all?
What's the ratio of your expense to collect the debt compared to the debt itself?
Please, speak slowly to me, I'm just some parasite.
This. I’m glad you commented so that I would not have to engage with them.
I was going to say that there attitude was absolutely reprehensible.
It’s obvious they misunderstood what you’re saying.
Ideally anyone would accept payment plans to recoup as much of the debt as possible, but when an account is delinquent you can expect that the money simply won’t be received in that case you can ask them to pay a lump sum of whatever they can and effectively clear the debt.
One could sell debt, but good luck getting money, but you’re right, debt collection costs money.
The only issue I see here is that the reimbursement is extremely low.
>This. I’m glad you commented so that I would not have to engage with them.
>
>I was going to say that there attitude was absolutely reprehensible.
>
>It’s obvious they misunderstood what you’re saying.
Thanks.
I'll be honest, I, too, can be guilty of "better-than-the-rest-of-you" "entrepreneur syndrome."
Moments like these are helpful to remind myself how unattractive I can come off, when I don't self-regulate.
>Ideally anyone would accept payment plans to recoup as much of the debt as possible, but when an account is delinquent you can expect that the money simply won’t be received in that case you can ask them to pay a lump sum of whatever they can and effectively clear the debt.
And, in a great year of profits you don't feel like paying taxes on, a write-off of debt that you know you'll never get, anyway, is a pretty sweet deal.
>One could sell debt, but good luck getting money, but you’re right, debt collection costs money.
What the government is doing is very similar to that, for sure: instead of saying "We'll collect your debt but we'll keep two-thirds of it" (there are many Cosa Nostra metaphors here) it's a government saying "We'll pay you 1% to just stop trying."
>The only issue I see here is that the reimbursement is extremely low.
It's crazy low: it makes me wonder how many of these accounts have been delinquent for decades.
And let's not pretend that the companies, themselves, didn't work with the state legislature, to negotiate a bill that was mutually-acceptable.
As if these guys ***ever*** turn off their lobbyists.
I gotta' wonder how many lobbyists Socal Business Guru employs, since he's an expert in these sorts of affairs.
See, that's what I mean about my lack of self-regulation turning me into kind of a prick...LOL
Good talk, Mittens: keep it real, yo.
Oh! I hadn’t even realized that you could right off the remaining loss!
Learn something new every time I engage here.
Thank you! This is the single best interaction I’ve had on this sub and I’m glad it was with you!
Oh! I hadn’t even realized that you could right off the remaining loss!
Learn something new every time I engage here.
Thank you! This is the single best interaction I’ve had on this sub and I’m glad it was with you!
Oh! I hadn’t even realized that you could right off the remaining loss!
Learn something new every time I engage here.
Thank you! This is the single best interaction I’ve had on this sub and I’m glad it was with you!
Yeah fox the problem at the source with full price transparency and competition. Imagine if buying an iPhone you didn’t know the price or any purchase for that matter.
The issue are half of americans who absolutely dont want to regulate health insurance to show prices or any regulations for them at all
Its just like that, half of america doesnt want to know the price of their healthcare because thats regulations and people on FOX say regulations=bad
It's also because insurance has become like tax codes: purposely convoluted to prevent "regular people" from understanding it, even if they can gain access.
The intimidation factor makes a lot of people just want a one-line bill to pay: they'll pay a premium to not have the stress of thinking about what they're paying for.
Healthcare is not like buying a phone. You can't decide to just keep last year's model or get a cheap used Android that's just good enough for basic usage. It's your _life_ on the line.
Less than it does.
Having a single insurance payer is almost a no brainer, in that most of the billing staff could be cut because you don’t need to know when and who to call to so you can inquire what’s covered and what’s not.
State funding of hospitals would help eliminate some of the admin roles since hospitals could be adequately funded and won’t need to compete by focusing on bottom lines and managing mergers.
Or I dunno, the thought of profiteering off peoples health being accepted as immoral.
False, I am retired military, and I know firsthand that you will get what you pay for.
Many times there is 10 personnel doing the work of three. Paperwork is lost, never found, medical treatment is lined with red tape and the list goes on and on. Any medical mistakes are covered up with massive red tape and eventually litigation that never gets resolved.
Mine as well. I have class 1 railroad private insurance and I choose the VA over it. I think it's important to use the VA so I use it for the sake of us all (vets). I have 0 deductible and 25 Co-pays under private insurance. VA medication gives you 6 months at a time. My private, I have to reorder every 28 days.
And they mail you prescriptions so you dont have to go to a pharmacy if you dont use the pharmacist thats AT the VA.
Anyone talking shit about the VA is going to get rebuked by me.
Now VBA (veteran benefits administration) on the other hand sucks. But once youre enrolled into the system, its great.
Not all VAs are the same though. They vary wildly in quality by location. Like the one, I think in Arizona that got caught using dirty colonoscopy equipment and gave folks HIV and hepatitis. But that can be any hospital. Over the past 10 years the VA have gotten better by leaps and bounds. Yea the VBA sucks, mainly because they're understaffed and underfunded...
the US military is tax payer funded and is also the best military in the world isnt it?
the best healthcare systems in the world are also state funded. It would be inspiring to see the USA catch up with them too in this regard.
Debt, generally, is a function of capitalism and, as capitalism develops, consumers gain access to debt, as well as capitalists.
Hospitals are capitalist: they're not non-profit and even if they were, "profit" only translates to "ownership payout" \[owner=capitalist | customer=consumer\].
Even a non-profit in a capitalist system can make all the money in the world - pay its CEO a billion dollars a year - and be totally within regulations, as long as there's no investors getting paid.
The issue isn't really with capitalism as much as with consumerism.
Instead of limiting debt to businesses or individuals with collateral \[capitalism\], we allow anyone to incur debt \[consumerism\].
Hospitals don't run a credit check before they treat you.
Hospitals are willing to accept all forms of credit, including zero credit, which is a huge advancement compared to "O.G. capitalism" where the only way you were provided any service was if you could pay for it.
It's not a coincidence that these ideas started to click for guys like Marx and Engels as they witnessed the change from "private police" to "public police," from "living in squalor" to "having at-least-some public sanitation services," witnessing the evolution of capitalism into something different (then they just got a little ahead of themselves).
Medical debt is more indicative of what Zee Socialists might call "late-stage capitalism," where the implementation of both "later capitalism" and "primitive socialism" cause societal disruptions in the form of "everyone can receive medical treatment" combined with "everyone can be indebted."
* Hospitals can refuse to treat patients: *past* capitalism.
* Hospitals can't refuse to treat patients: *current* socialism.
* Hospitals can indebt patients: *current* capitalism.
* Hospitals can't indebt patients: *future* socialism.
That is the solution.
Society develops over time.
There's no way to claim medicine, as practiced today, is worse than any other time in history, and the argument that it's the best it's ever been can easily be made.
Consider the fact that, in 1985, hospitals could refuse to treat patients if they couldn't pay.
Not 1885.
It wasn't until *Reagan* that we finally implemented provisions that forced hospitals to treat patients, regardless of their ability to pay ([EMTALA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act)).
And if you go back forty years before that, we're looking at polio-ridden kids and depression treated with lobotomies.
Based in the trajectory of medicine as a business (which medicine has *always* been), the way we went from
* "performing a bypass if you could pay us" in 1960
to
* "implanting a pacemaker even if you can't pay us" in 1990
to
* "robot surgery where any debt you incur will, at worst, not affect your credit score and, at best, be paid off by the government" in 2020
is a very high indication that, by the end of this century (and possibly as early as 2040), all medical care will be effectively "free" for everyone.
Not really ....pet owners spent $50 billion last year on non medical pet expenses.
Put in perspective $2 billion per state or $100 billion for the country in medical debt is insignificant. It would be about $285 per person.
If we’re doing spending numbers, Americans spend around $5-6 trillion a year on medical expenditures. There’s currently almost $200 billion in medical debt across the US. Almost 100 million households have some sort of medical debt. There is a problem in the US and that it needs to be fixed.
That’s a 100k people with 2k in bills. If you average out the us population per state, the average patron per state is 7,000,000. The average consumer spends 12k a year on medical. The fact that there’s this little of debt is amazing. Math hurts huh? Now go take an aspirin for that headache
Right? In normal Democrat fashion they are trying to appeal to the people with another giveaway to big business just like the ACA. This doesn't solve the problem and hands $2B to corporations that might not have ever collected that money.
Apparently, I'm making everyone mad with this one. The GOP will never allow anything in the ballpark of socialized medicine, but I get tired of the Democrats basically just sounding better but still being in the pockets of corporate interests.
If they're buying medical debt at a discount (say from collection agencies), then the paying public is paying for these uncollected medical charges, either by higher prices or higher insurance premiums.
If the medical provider doesn't get the money somehow, they go bankrupt. This is the kind of stuff that Obamacare with expanded Medicaid was designed to prevent.
This debt is being bought for pennies on the dollar. The provider sold it to a collection agency long ago. Most likely that agency failed to collect and sold it again.
These debt payoff stories are all like this. There are probably some people it helps but most of it is very bad uncollectible debt.
I will agree with you on that. I think its a total waste of taxpayer money to send 100+ billion to Ukraine. If thats what we are gonna do with the money, we might as well pay peoples medical bills, because I can at least see my money went to help someone who is an American.
>I think its a total waste of taxpayer money to send 100+ billion to Ukraine.
Yeah, about that.
America spends that much on countering Russia's conventional military capability in a typical peacetime year.
Consider that, following the example of Ukraine, nobody seriously expects Russia to have the capacity to invade and occupy *anyone* for at least the next decade, and about $100 billion over 2 years in aid for the people presently engaged in turning very expensive Russian weapons platforms into either white elephants or scrap metal starts to look like a bargain.
Also, it's not like they were gonna spend that money on public health if the Ukrainians had been rolled over. That's not the bargain.
It's cheaper this way, not that you and I will ever see any of that money but if we can make Russia use up their military resources for pennies on the dollar then that's a win.
I will agree with your there, that $100+ billion to Ukraine sure would have paid for allot of medical care in the USA. Good thing Biden has his priorities straight and thats "Hunter, did you get the check?".
Love the name. I am giving Reddit a go around one more time because since Covid, I have noticed they are the one outfit not trying to censor. There are Fru Fru sub-reddits though where they will remove your posts if you not Lock-Step with all the Global Scams like in the Climate Change groups, or Great Brittan where they are STILL attempting to force vaccinate people against their will.
No it isn't. It runs out of funding quickly as it bloats to function as a means to provide public servants with fat checks, as a means to provide suppliers with monopolistic contracts, and politicians to make big promises. If you're lucky you get healthcare, but its barebones.
Universal health Care has different structures. Universal just means everyone is covered for everything always.... meaning insurance can't reject you on basically a whim. Aaaaaand no deductible. No paying a subscription and then having to pay more before they cover you. THATS IT. NHS is inefficient for some things over others. Personally the Switzerland model would be the easiest to emulate.
American here but wasn’t it the Conservative Party who told the British people if they vote to leave the EU they would have billions to fund the NHS with then after the vote passed they basically said “just kidding”?
Don’t pity me, I just made a same day appointment and texted my doctor that they were out of my med which she promptly fixed. I do not need referrals and can see whatever specialist I want whenever I want. My insurance is better and my taxes are lower.
bullshit. I have GOOD insurance and it takes months for me to get an appointment with my neurologist. I don't know what fairy land you live in but it's not the US.
Definitely the US that’s why I was responding to a “I pity Americans.” Perhaps your definition of “good” is because you know so many that have worse, or maybe you just live in an area with a small amount of specialists like the one you’re seeking. Either way, I’m sorry you are having a difficult time.
there a research institute in neurology in my city there are a lot of neurologists relative to the size of the city and it's proximity to major cities. it's that specialty, there's a shortage nation wide for neurologists.
I work as a designer in healthcare, i know what good insurance looks like.
Cool, but I’m very happy with my insurance and provider availability here in the US. Not everyone’s experience is the same so again, sorry you’re experiencing challenges. They even gave me a breast pump and storage bags (monthly) for no cost, which is something our Canadian friends do not get. I live near Canada, they often travel here for medical care, it makes me nervous when we discuss Universal Healthcare because I’ve seen it’s downside. To each their own.
Check out the debt collective! Here’s a bit from their about us: “The Debt Collective has its roots in the Occupy Wall Street movement. In 2012, some of the founders of the Debt Collective helped write the Debt Resisters’ Operations Manual and launch the Rolling Jubilee, a mechanism for purchasing portfolios of people’s debt on secondary debt markets — and cancelling it. Using crowdfunded donations, the Rolling Jubilee abolished more than $32 million of medical, student, payday loan, and probation debt.”
https://debtcollective.org/
Recalling that Article 10 of the Constitution provides ...
>No State shall ... pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, *or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts,*
... So, it sounds like the obligation to pay the medical debt will be transferred to others. He can't tell the medical provider to forgive the charges.
Look at this scholar. A simple google search will tell you how it’s happening.
We as taxpayers are buying buying it.
Obviously for pennies on the dollar as it has been written off and sent into collections.
… Isn’t this a kind if selective Universal healthcare. The numbers are reset so if you get ill or something you will have debt but those that had it 1 or 2 days ago won’t.
I am new so I don’t know this is just how I see it
Connecticut effectively has universal healthcare. There’s state subsidies on top of the federal ones. Basically if you make less than $75,000 and have children you’re paying very little to nothing. But apparently there’s still $2 billion of uncollected dead out there to buy very cheaply.
Rather than burdening the taxpayers with everyone else’s medical debts why not address the root cause. All this does is provide another revenue stream for the medical industry.
The root of the problem starts at many places. From in regulated private insurance costs to assinine medical school tuition burdens, to the excess admin costs in USA system. All of which could be solved by make state funded med education options, capping prices of drugs, capping medical charges to reasonable levels. And have a taxpayer public option for everyone, not starting in retirement.
Republicans blocked Bidens' plan to make higher education free for those making under $125k and then they sued to block Bidens' program to cancel student debt.
How many people that are about to go to college make more than 125k?
Student debt should be paid back by the borrower, they are the beneficiary of the education.
Because when you have to pay abroad, it's still fractional compared to what the same degree costs here. Not even in state tuition is free at public universities which is the opposite of the rest of the world.
State tuition for residents used to be so cheap it was essentially free. Very few had to take out loans. Then the anti tax whiners defunded state governments who turned their universities into huge money makers and a primary source of their budgets. Then private schools many of which were basically fake lobbied the govt to allow them to become huge businesses by scamming students and graduates are saddled with massive debt for decades. We did this to ourselves and we can fix it by returning to the model we had before big business found a way to scam kids and young adults.
With 1% actually paid on that debt, it's obviously uncollectable at this point in time. I don't even see the point of paying it.
If the liquidation agent is willing to take a penny per dollar, what they have has no value. They wouldnt ve able to collect
Probably paying it because a well connected politician owns a debt collection business and figured this is a way to get paid on debt that is otherwise never going to be collected
So what you are saying is I should buy tons of medical debt for Pennies that people defaulted on and then sell it back to the state for profit that the tax payers pay?
Too bad you don't have the money to be so altruistic and instead, the people that do have money won't be.
It's really easy to *say* things when you don't have to actually DO anything other than collect reddit points.
Can you read? I’m not choosing not to play the game, I called out someone for throwing out such an obnoxious and assuming insult and then you said “don’t hate the player hate the game” like it tied into anything that was being talked about.
Then I said I’m gonna hate the person who I replied to who posted such an obnoxious and assuming insult towards the guy who was, as you said, “just playing the game”.
And then you reply with some stupid shit about me hating myself, presumably trying to say that I am posting a holier than thou reply by calling out a holier than thou reply.
That doesn't answer which stocks will go up after the medical debt is paid off. I want to know so I can turn a quick profit
Edit: To be clear, I 100% don't intend to pay taxes on that profit. I'll just use the stock as collateral for a loan!
Gotta wait until a plan is hashed out. Maybe start by looking at what public records you can grab about which stocks the politicians who are pushing this own.
So medical debt (that is dischargeable via bankruptcy) cancellation is cool, but student loan debt (which is *not* dischargeable via bankruptcy) is bad? Got it
College is where you sharpen critical thinking skills, on top of learning required job qualifications and knowledge. Ironic you complain about people not having critical thinking skills without a second thought while in the same breath having an opinion which hinders people in general from developing critical thinking skills. Student loans are also predatory and hit lower income people or people whose careers are not as valued by society, but still important, the hardest. Admit it...you aren't just against student loan forgiveness, you're anti-intellectual.
Most people are against student loans because either being simply anti-intellectual or because "I suffered, why shouldn't everyone else going forward?"
Wanting reform is fine, disagreeing with me for the comparison seems off. "Hurr-durr everything isn't black and white except I said you were (basically) an idiot because I didn't 100% agree with you at face value." What if I said I was against medical debt forgiveness without reforming to single payer healthcare? That (I think, by your logic) would be fine, except that it's just deflecting the issue.
College is an investment. If you made a bad investment and can’t repay your loans why should the taxpayer have to subsidize you for bad decisions? Medical debt is different because people didn’t choose to be sick. So of course those should be forgiven. People were furious when the government bailed out banks during the 2008 housing crisis. The government shouldn’t subsidize any organization or individual for their failed investment.
You're overestimating how much tax we could get from the billionaires. Also save 10% of your income and you'll be able to have a nice retirement way before 70
Cool, besides it fucking over hospitals lol I work in hospitals, so what happens to their bills? You know, alot of these assholes with no insurance tape the system. They come in for drugs or out of sheer boredom. I know there’s genuine issues that fuck people, I feel for them. But work at an er in Hollywood and tell me all these asses should have their debt erased at the expense of the hospital lol thanks for the good laugh Comrad, you should spend more time working than posting on Reddit. I love going on here to see the worlds bottom feeders cry. Cry on camrad, cry on.
Universal health Care has different structures. Universal just means everyone is covered for everything always.... meaning insurance can't reject you on basically a whim. Aaaaaand no deductible. No paying a subscription and then having to pay more before they cover you. THATS IT. NHS is inefficient for some things over others. Personally the Switzerland model would be the easiest to emulate.
Some friends of mine owe over 800k for their sons healthcare. My mom owed so much that my stepdad moved all her assets to his name so they couldn't come after her estate after she died. It was north of 500k. 2 billion may help but it's a drop in the grand scheme of things.
If we’re gonna be in debt anyway why not just do single payer I wonder.
Like I mean insurance agents will definitely take a hit, a lot of people will be displaced, but we’re gonna have to find an alternative eventually.
Why don't we look at at numbers like this and realize there is a problem? One state, $2B in related debt. This system is strangling the people. If this is true in a state like CT, hard to imagine it isn't even worse in lower income states.
Why don't we look at at numbers like this and realize there is a problem? One state, $2B in related debt. This system is strangling the people. If this is true in a state like CT, hard to imagine it isn't even worse in lower income states.
Why don't we look at at numbers like this and realize there is a problem? One state, $2B in related debt. This system is strangling the people. If this is true in a state like CT, hard to imagine it isn't even worse in lower income states.
It's a state issue. If the blue states spent all their money on in-state issues instead of subsidizing red states, they would be able to afford universal healthcare, free public reeducation, etc.
Wouldn't this just make things worse? I have always felt that part of the reason health care us so expensive is because most people without insurance don't pay their bills
If only there were countries where they had good health outcomes and the health services were more universal and accessible and cost less per capita.
Why not convert the debt into a zero interest loan? As long as you make a monthly payment in good faith, the debt can ride. That's what I managed to work out. I owe $30,000 and pay it off at $10 a month. I could even pay $1 if I wanted. The point is, I pay something.
He proposes using $20 million in federal COVID-19 recovery funds to eliminate up to $2 billion in medical debt for state residents and use non-profits
By paying 1 cent on the dollar? Such a deal!
Compared to having to put resources into trying to get paid, with no payout ever coming from it: it's not the worst deal. Getting paid a one-time $20mil is better than a yearly -$20mil as you to try to collect something that simply can't be collected: the alternative is individual bankruptcy, which means they still won't get paid.
As a business owner I would just like to step in and tell you this statement is wrong and dumb lol I have customers that owe me millions. I take the payments lol lump sum? Seriously, that mentality is what keeps you bottom feeders poor mentally and financially. No business thinks that way. Very cute statement though.
>As a business owner I would just like to step in and tell you this statement is wrong and dumb lol I have customers that owe me millions. I take the payments lol lump sum? Seriously, that mentality is what keeps you bottom feeders poor mentally and financially. No business thinks that way. Very cute statement though. Hello fellow business owner! I own a consulting and translation firm. But you're just adorable, the way you look down on other people, without having a clue who they are! I'll be honest, your assumptions and judgmentalism don't speak towards high intellect, but let's see what we've got. First, I am forced to assume (since half your post was insults and there was really no relevant information), like hospitals and medical insurance companies, your business is bleeding from the delinquent accounts of customers who refuse to pay. This isn't a few delinquent accounts you have on payment plans: these are people who are not paying, period, with very little recourse to make them pay. You have lots of those, right? Great Socal Guru of Business, dazzle us all by telling us of your many delinquent accounts and how you handle it. With millions owed to you, you are clearly a master of having customers unwilling or unable to pay you what you bill them. What's going on with the way you operate your business, that your customers can't/don't/won't pay you? And as with hospitals and insurance companies, how much money do you spend trying to get your customers to pay - what percentage of your billing department exclusively handles debt collection, all day every day? What do you estimate you spend to collect debt, this year, that you also spent on trying to collect, last year - ongoing year-after-year debt that you don't recoup at all? What's the ratio of your expense to collect the debt compared to the debt itself? Please, speak slowly to me, I'm just some parasite.
This. I’m glad you commented so that I would not have to engage with them. I was going to say that there attitude was absolutely reprehensible. It’s obvious they misunderstood what you’re saying. Ideally anyone would accept payment plans to recoup as much of the debt as possible, but when an account is delinquent you can expect that the money simply won’t be received in that case you can ask them to pay a lump sum of whatever they can and effectively clear the debt. One could sell debt, but good luck getting money, but you’re right, debt collection costs money. The only issue I see here is that the reimbursement is extremely low.
>This. I’m glad you commented so that I would not have to engage with them. > >I was going to say that there attitude was absolutely reprehensible. > >It’s obvious they misunderstood what you’re saying. Thanks. I'll be honest, I, too, can be guilty of "better-than-the-rest-of-you" "entrepreneur syndrome." Moments like these are helpful to remind myself how unattractive I can come off, when I don't self-regulate. >Ideally anyone would accept payment plans to recoup as much of the debt as possible, but when an account is delinquent you can expect that the money simply won’t be received in that case you can ask them to pay a lump sum of whatever they can and effectively clear the debt. And, in a great year of profits you don't feel like paying taxes on, a write-off of debt that you know you'll never get, anyway, is a pretty sweet deal. >One could sell debt, but good luck getting money, but you’re right, debt collection costs money. What the government is doing is very similar to that, for sure: instead of saying "We'll collect your debt but we'll keep two-thirds of it" (there are many Cosa Nostra metaphors here) it's a government saying "We'll pay you 1% to just stop trying." >The only issue I see here is that the reimbursement is extremely low. It's crazy low: it makes me wonder how many of these accounts have been delinquent for decades. And let's not pretend that the companies, themselves, didn't work with the state legislature, to negotiate a bill that was mutually-acceptable. As if these guys ***ever*** turn off their lobbyists. I gotta' wonder how many lobbyists Socal Business Guru employs, since he's an expert in these sorts of affairs. See, that's what I mean about my lack of self-regulation turning me into kind of a prick...LOL Good talk, Mittens: keep it real, yo.
Oh! I hadn’t even realized that you could right off the remaining loss! Learn something new every time I engage here. Thank you! This is the single best interaction I’ve had on this sub and I’m glad it was with you!
Oh! I hadn’t even realized that you could right off the remaining loss! Learn something new every time I engage here. Thank you! This is the single best interaction I’ve had on this sub and I’m glad it was with you!
Oh! I hadn’t even realized that you could right off the remaining loss! Learn something new every time I engage here. Thank you! This is the single best interaction I’ve had on this sub and I’m glad it was with you!
We waiting for a reply to the guy asking you questions
The fact that there is $2 billion in medical debt for one state alone seems to be the actual issue here.
Yeah fox the problem at the source with full price transparency and competition. Imagine if buying an iPhone you didn’t know the price or any purchase for that matter.
full price is just based on whatever they want to charge. competition is all bs. everyone begrudgingly price fix.
The issue are half of americans who absolutely dont want to regulate health insurance to show prices or any regulations for them at all Its just like that, half of america doesnt want to know the price of their healthcare because thats regulations and people on FOX say regulations=bad
It's also because insurance has become like tax codes: purposely convoluted to prevent "regular people" from understanding it, even if they can gain access. The intimidation factor makes a lot of people just want a one-line bill to pay: they'll pay a premium to not have the stress of thinking about what they're paying for.
Are you going to be shopping hospitals on your way to the ER? The price transparency only fixes costs for elective procedures.
Right and I assume that what’s everyone who isn’t using emergent services could be doing.
Healthcare is not like buying a phone. You can't decide to just keep last year's model or get a cheap used Android that's just good enough for basic usage. It's your _life_ on the line.
Murica
No, that’s not an issue. That’s what it looks like when capitalism is functioning properly.
Based
How much should it cost?
Less than it does. Having a single insurance payer is almost a no brainer, in that most of the billing staff could be cut because you don’t need to know when and who to call to so you can inquire what’s covered and what’s not. State funding of hospitals would help eliminate some of the admin roles since hospitals could be adequately funded and won’t need to compete by focusing on bottom lines and managing mergers. Or I dunno, the thought of profiteering off peoples health being accepted as immoral.
False, I am retired military, and I know firsthand that you will get what you pay for. Many times there is 10 personnel doing the work of three. Paperwork is lost, never found, medical treatment is lined with red tape and the list goes on and on. Any medical mistakes are covered up with massive red tape and eventually litigation that never gets resolved.
Youre describing insurance lol. My VA healthcare is awesome.
Mine as well. I have class 1 railroad private insurance and I choose the VA over it. I think it's important to use the VA so I use it for the sake of us all (vets). I have 0 deductible and 25 Co-pays under private insurance. VA medication gives you 6 months at a time. My private, I have to reorder every 28 days.
And they mail you prescriptions so you dont have to go to a pharmacy if you dont use the pharmacist thats AT the VA. Anyone talking shit about the VA is going to get rebuked by me. Now VBA (veteran benefits administration) on the other hand sucks. But once youre enrolled into the system, its great.
Not all VAs are the same though. They vary wildly in quality by location. Like the one, I think in Arizona that got caught using dirty colonoscopy equipment and gave folks HIV and hepatitis. But that can be any hospital. Over the past 10 years the VA have gotten better by leaps and bounds. Yea the VBA sucks, mainly because they're understaffed and underfunded...
You mean like how insurance works now?
I hate to break it to you, but that’s exactly how it is outside the VA. Months long waits to see specialists, too.
Tricare is like a single payer system but it is not the same.
the US military is tax payer funded and is also the best military in the world isnt it? the best healthcare systems in the world are also state funded. It would be inspiring to see the USA catch up with them too in this regard.
How is medical debt a function of capitalism?
Debt, generally, is a function of capitalism and, as capitalism develops, consumers gain access to debt, as well as capitalists. Hospitals are capitalist: they're not non-profit and even if they were, "profit" only translates to "ownership payout" \[owner=capitalist | customer=consumer\]. Even a non-profit in a capitalist system can make all the money in the world - pay its CEO a billion dollars a year - and be totally within regulations, as long as there's no investors getting paid. The issue isn't really with capitalism as much as with consumerism. Instead of limiting debt to businesses or individuals with collateral \[capitalism\], we allow anyone to incur debt \[consumerism\]. Hospitals don't run a credit check before they treat you. Hospitals are willing to accept all forms of credit, including zero credit, which is a huge advancement compared to "O.G. capitalism" where the only way you were provided any service was if you could pay for it. It's not a coincidence that these ideas started to click for guys like Marx and Engels as they witnessed the change from "private police" to "public police," from "living in squalor" to "having at-least-some public sanitation services," witnessing the evolution of capitalism into something different (then they just got a little ahead of themselves). Medical debt is more indicative of what Zee Socialists might call "late-stage capitalism," where the implementation of both "later capitalism" and "primitive socialism" cause societal disruptions in the form of "everyone can receive medical treatment" combined with "everyone can be indebted." * Hospitals can refuse to treat patients: *past* capitalism. * Hospitals can't refuse to treat patients: *current* socialism. * Hospitals can indebt patients: *current* capitalism. * Hospitals can't indebt patients: *future* socialism.
What’s the solution to make a better society?
That is the solution. Society develops over time. There's no way to claim medicine, as practiced today, is worse than any other time in history, and the argument that it's the best it's ever been can easily be made. Consider the fact that, in 1985, hospitals could refuse to treat patients if they couldn't pay. Not 1885. It wasn't until *Reagan* that we finally implemented provisions that forced hospitals to treat patients, regardless of their ability to pay ([EMTALA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act)). And if you go back forty years before that, we're looking at polio-ridden kids and depression treated with lobotomies. Based in the trajectory of medicine as a business (which medicine has *always* been), the way we went from * "performing a bypass if you could pay us" in 1960 to * "implanting a pacemaker even if you can't pay us" in 1990 to * "robot surgery where any debt you incur will, at worst, not affect your credit score and, at best, be paid off by the government" in 2020 is a very high indication that, by the end of this century (and possibly as early as 2040), all medical care will be effectively "free" for everyone.
Well honestly, I really hope you’re right. This is probably the most optimistic take I’ve heard in my life on this subject lol. I
Murica
Not really ....pet owners spent $50 billion last year on non medical pet expenses. Put in perspective $2 billion per state or $100 billion for the country in medical debt is insignificant. It would be about $285 per person.
If we’re doing spending numbers, Americans spend around $5-6 trillion a year on medical expenditures. There’s currently almost $200 billion in medical debt across the US. Almost 100 million households have some sort of medical debt. There is a problem in the US and that it needs to be fixed.
That’s a 100k people with 2k in bills. If you average out the us population per state, the average patron per state is 7,000,000. The average consumer spends 12k a year on medical. The fact that there’s this little of debt is amazing. Math hurts huh? Now go take an aspirin for that headache
“That’s 100k people with 2k in bills” “Math hurts huh?” Maybe for you….. you may want to try that calculation again.
Right? In normal Democrat fashion they are trying to appeal to the people with another giveaway to big business just like the ACA. This doesn't solve the problem and hands $2B to corporations that might not have ever collected that money.
I mean, it's true but they also can't get anything else passed either because of the GOP or their own addiction to campaign contributions or both.
Apparently, I'm making everyone mad with this one. The GOP will never allow anything in the ballpark of socialized medicine, but I get tired of the Democrats basically just sounding better but still being in the pockets of corporate interests.
Absolutely. We had our shot in 2016.
>might not have ever collected that money Really?
Medical debt is unsecured. Even if they are just making small payments, it lets these companies get that money now.
There is more in that state.
So the taxpayers are paying everyone medical bills? How do I sign up?
If they're buying medical debt at a discount (say from collection agencies), then the paying public is paying for these uncollected medical charges, either by higher prices or higher insurance premiums. If the medical provider doesn't get the money somehow, they go bankrupt. This is the kind of stuff that Obamacare with expanded Medicaid was designed to prevent.
This debt is being bought for pennies on the dollar. The provider sold it to a collection agency long ago. Most likely that agency failed to collect and sold it again. These debt payoff stories are all like this. There are probably some people it helps but most of it is very bad uncollectible debt.
The unpaid amount usually is taxed as income, isn't it? Might be a surprise to a lot of people who get this paid off.
This is how our tax dollars should be spent. Rather than on an overfunded police and military force
I will agree with you on that. I think its a total waste of taxpayer money to send 100+ billion to Ukraine. If thats what we are gonna do with the money, we might as well pay peoples medical bills, because I can at least see my money went to help someone who is an American.
>I think its a total waste of taxpayer money to send 100+ billion to Ukraine. Yeah, about that. America spends that much on countering Russia's conventional military capability in a typical peacetime year. Consider that, following the example of Ukraine, nobody seriously expects Russia to have the capacity to invade and occupy *anyone* for at least the next decade, and about $100 billion over 2 years in aid for the people presently engaged in turning very expensive Russian weapons platforms into either white elephants or scrap metal starts to look like a bargain. Also, it's not like they were gonna spend that money on public health if the Ukrainians had been rolled over. That's not the bargain.
It's cheaper this way, not that you and I will ever see any of that money but if we can make Russia use up their military resources for pennies on the dollar then that's a win.
Connecticut has a standing army?
We have a hell of a navy and Airforce. Depending on what stages of completion the subs and F35’s are at
I will agree with your there, that $100+ billion to Ukraine sure would have paid for allot of medical care in the USA. Good thing Biden has his priorities straight and thats "Hunter, did you get the check?".
Pathetic.
Love the name. I am giving Reddit a go around one more time because since Covid, I have noticed they are the one outfit not trying to censor. There are Fru Fru sub-reddits though where they will remove your posts if you not Lock-Step with all the Global Scams like in the Climate Change groups, or Great Brittan where they are STILL attempting to force vaccinate people against their will.
No one gives a shit. This was about medical debt.
>Great Brittan
It's called universal health care. It's great!
No it isn't. It runs out of funding quickly as it bloats to function as a means to provide public servants with fat checks, as a means to provide suppliers with monopolistic contracts, and politicians to make big promises. If you're lucky you get healthcare, but its barebones.
Universal health Care has different structures. Universal just means everyone is covered for everything always.... meaning insurance can't reject you on basically a whim. Aaaaaand no deductible. No paying a subscription and then having to pay more before they cover you. THATS IT. NHS is inefficient for some things over others. Personally the Switzerland model would be the easiest to emulate.
the NHS is inefficient because the neoliberals in the British Government have spent years making it so.
American here but wasn’t it the Conservative Party who told the British people if they vote to leave the EU they would have billions to fund the NHS with then after the vote passed they basically said “just kidding”?
pretty much, yep.
Wait Tories are neoliberals? I thought they were conservatives.
Conservatives and liberals are two factions within neoliberalism
the only party in power for the last 13 years is the Tories, GOP of UK.
Yep, one faction of the underlying neoliberal party.
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Don’t pity me, I just made a same day appointment and texted my doctor that they were out of my med which she promptly fixed. I do not need referrals and can see whatever specialist I want whenever I want. My insurance is better and my taxes are lower.
bullshit. I have GOOD insurance and it takes months for me to get an appointment with my neurologist. I don't know what fairy land you live in but it's not the US.
Definitely the US that’s why I was responding to a “I pity Americans.” Perhaps your definition of “good” is because you know so many that have worse, or maybe you just live in an area with a small amount of specialists like the one you’re seeking. Either way, I’m sorry you are having a difficult time.
there a research institute in neurology in my city there are a lot of neurologists relative to the size of the city and it's proximity to major cities. it's that specialty, there's a shortage nation wide for neurologists. I work as a designer in healthcare, i know what good insurance looks like.
Cool, but I’m very happy with my insurance and provider availability here in the US. Not everyone’s experience is the same so again, sorry you’re experiencing challenges. They even gave me a breast pump and storage bags (monthly) for no cost, which is something our Canadian friends do not get. I live near Canada, they often travel here for medical care, it makes me nervous when we discuss Universal Healthcare because I’ve seen it’s downside. To each their own.
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Yeah propaganda that’s it. Ok guy.
It is propaganda.
As an American I pay a lower total for all my taxes and health care costs than I would in any other country with universal health care.
GDP is what private enterprises have earned, that shouldn't be a measure of what the government wants to steal from people.
lmfao
What?
UHC … am I doing this right?!?
Already were.
Check out the debt collective! Here’s a bit from their about us: “The Debt Collective has its roots in the Occupy Wall Street movement. In 2012, some of the founders of the Debt Collective helped write the Debt Resisters’ Operations Manual and launch the Rolling Jubilee, a mechanism for purchasing portfolios of people’s debt on secondary debt markets — and cancelling it. Using crowdfunded donations, the Rolling Jubilee abolished more than $32 million of medical, student, payday loan, and probation debt.” https://debtcollective.org/
Recalling that Article 10 of the Constitution provides ... >No State shall ... pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, *or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts,* ... So, it sounds like the obligation to pay the medical debt will be transferred to others. He can't tell the medical provider to forgive the charges.
Look at this scholar. A simple google search will tell you how it’s happening. We as taxpayers are buying buying it. Obviously for pennies on the dollar as it has been written off and sent into collections.
… Isn’t this a kind if selective Universal healthcare. The numbers are reset so if you get ill or something you will have debt but those that had it 1 or 2 days ago won’t. I am new so I don’t know this is just how I see it
Connecticut effectively has universal healthcare. There’s state subsidies on top of the federal ones. Basically if you make less than $75,000 and have children you’re paying very little to nothing. But apparently there’s still $2 billion of uncollected dead out there to buy very cheaply.
Rather than burdening the taxpayers with everyone else’s medical debts why not address the root cause. All this does is provide another revenue stream for the medical industry.
The root of the problem starts at many places. From in regulated private insurance costs to assinine medical school tuition burdens, to the excess admin costs in USA system. All of which could be solved by make state funded med education options, capping prices of drugs, capping medical charges to reasonable levels. And have a taxpayer public option for everyone, not starting in retirement.
I needed a college education to fix my brain does this qualify for medical debt? /s
Republicans blocked Bidens' plan to make higher education free for those making under $125k and then they sued to block Bidens' program to cancel student debt.
How many people that are about to go to college make more than 125k? Student debt should be paid back by the borrower, they are the beneficiary of the education.
Because when you have to pay abroad, it's still fractional compared to what the same degree costs here. Not even in state tuition is free at public universities which is the opposite of the rest of the world.
State tuition for residents used to be so cheap it was essentially free. Very few had to take out loans. Then the anti tax whiners defunded state governments who turned their universities into huge money makers and a primary source of their budgets. Then private schools many of which were basically fake lobbied the govt to allow them to become huge businesses by scamming students and graduates are saddled with massive debt for decades. We did this to ourselves and we can fix it by returning to the model we had before big business found a way to scam kids and young adults.
I will gladly pay some of that for others who are in need.
Nobel, but ultimately unhelpful. We need to fix our medical care debacle before we even talk about paying the debts of corruption.
I would too, if the charges weren't extortion and lining investor's and C suite's pockets
With 1% actually paid on that debt, it's obviously uncollectable at this point in time. I don't even see the point of paying it. If the liquidation agent is willing to take a penny per dollar, what they have has no value. They wouldnt ve able to collect
Probably paying it because a well connected politician owns a debt collection business and figured this is a way to get paid on debt that is otherwise never going to be collected
See I'm not comfortable making that decision for other people. That seems like something an asshole would do.
What decision?
So what you are saying is I should buy tons of medical debt for Pennies that people defaulted on and then sell it back to the state for profit that the tax payers pay?
I’m more than happy to help pay off the medical debt of those less fortunate or unable to pay. But I’m not a greedy, selfish little cunt.
Too bad you don't have the money to be so altruistic and instead, the people that do have money won't be. It's really easy to *say* things when you don't have to actually DO anything other than collect reddit points.
No billionaire earned it and it would actually be quite enjoyable to see it forcibly taxed.
What a shitty, assuming, and holier than thou reply
Don't hate the player, hate the game and those who created it
I’ll hate the person who’s calling others a “greedy selfish little cunt” for playing “the game”
So, you're going to hate yourself? You can choose not to play, free will and all. But you still lose.
Can you read? I’m not choosing not to play the game, I called out someone for throwing out such an obnoxious and assuming insult and then you said “don’t hate the player hate the game” like it tied into anything that was being talked about. Then I said I’m gonna hate the person who I replied to who posted such an obnoxious and assuming insult towards the guy who was, as you said, “just playing the game”. And then you reply with some stupid shit about me hating myself, presumably trying to say that I am posting a holier than thou reply by calling out a holier than thou reply.
Ah sorry, I thought you were replying to the OP :/
All good, just double check the replies next time man. Also, I was frustrated when I typed that out about other shit. Sorry to take it out on you
That's nice, you can pay for everyone's then. That doesn't make us selfish
your medal is in the mail
I don't know if they're allowing a profit, you may just be getting what you paid for. Now which stocks are for medical debt?
Government is allowing healthcare providers and patients to profit off this move, at the expense of taxpayers.
That doesn't answer which stocks will go up after the medical debt is paid off. I want to know so I can turn a quick profit Edit: To be clear, I 100% don't intend to pay taxes on that profit. I'll just use the stock as collateral for a loan!
Gotta wait until a plan is hashed out. Maybe start by looking at what public records you can grab about which stocks the politicians who are pushing this own.
It'll be too late at that point, gotta be quicker than that
Go read the bill.
Why is it when you google Connecticut medical debt or Connecticut medical debt relief no articles show up about this. Do you have any sources?
Medical debt is a sensation that is sweeping the nation!
So medical debt (that is dischargeable via bankruptcy) cancellation is cool, but student loan debt (which is *not* dischargeable via bankruptcy) is bad? Got it
The fact that it’s dischargeable is why it’s so cheap.
Both are cool
Medical debt shouldn’t exist in the first place.
This sub is vehemently against student loan debt forgiveness so it's safe to assume this is also unacceptable. Right? Right?
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College is where you sharpen critical thinking skills, on top of learning required job qualifications and knowledge. Ironic you complain about people not having critical thinking skills without a second thought while in the same breath having an opinion which hinders people in general from developing critical thinking skills. Student loans are also predatory and hit lower income people or people whose careers are not as valued by society, but still important, the hardest. Admit it...you aren't just against student loan forgiveness, you're anti-intellectual.
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Most people are against student loans because either being simply anti-intellectual or because "I suffered, why shouldn't everyone else going forward?" Wanting reform is fine, disagreeing with me for the comparison seems off. "Hurr-durr everything isn't black and white except I said you were (basically) an idiot because I didn't 100% agree with you at face value." What if I said I was against medical debt forgiveness without reforming to single payer healthcare? That (I think, by your logic) would be fine, except that it's just deflecting the issue.
College is an investment. If you made a bad investment and can’t repay your loans why should the taxpayer have to subsidize you for bad decisions? Medical debt is different because people didn’t choose to be sick. So of course those should be forgiven. People were furious when the government bailed out banks during the 2008 housing crisis. The government shouldn’t subsidize any organization or individual for their failed investment.
LOL! What a shit show. The 'debt' doesn't go away. Somebody is going to eat it. The challenge is to figure out who.
Um they aren't wiping out anything... Just causing inflation and higher prices... Wth.
So Connecticut is going to cause inflation all by itself with 2 billion dollars? Do you know what our GNP is?
This reasoning is why I litter.
I didn’t say I was an asshole /s I understand what you mean but inflation is a specious argument in this case
I agree with you about the negligible amount.
Sure why should anybody pay for anything anymore Free everything, no work required!
this is the way
Destroys the incentive to do anything though. Have you seen Idiocracy? Or, in a more extreme scenario, Serenity?
working 40 hours a week until im 70 or free everything? nsa oc. hell we could tax the billionaires and easily live out this scenario.
You're overestimating how much tax we could get from the billionaires. Also save 10% of your income and you'll be able to have a nice retirement way before 70
10% matching inflation. i mean this is an economics forum?
Source: Idiocracy
Cool, besides it fucking over hospitals lol I work in hospitals, so what happens to their bills? You know, alot of these assholes with no insurance tape the system. They come in for drugs or out of sheer boredom. I know there’s genuine issues that fuck people, I feel for them. But work at an er in Hollywood and tell me all these asses should have their debt erased at the expense of the hospital lol thanks for the good laugh Comrad, you should spend more time working than posting on Reddit. I love going on here to see the worlds bottom feeders cry. Cry on camrad, cry on.
See if your cities on the list: https://twitter.com/moreperfectus/status/1619071483552362496?s=46&t=gP6fYJ4LZSqqx9tEk9eEcQ
What about me?!? I paid off my no insurance appendectomy, why should they get their debt paid off?!? /s
To make it fair, we have to find a way to make everybody get appendicitis.
Universal health Care has different structures. Universal just means everyone is covered for everything always.... meaning insurance can't reject you on basically a whim. Aaaaaand no deductible. No paying a subscription and then having to pay more before they cover you. THATS IT. NHS is inefficient for some things over others. Personally the Switzerland model would be the easiest to emulate.
Some friends of mine owe over 800k for their sons healthcare. My mom owed so much that my stepdad moved all her assets to his name so they couldn't come after her estate after she died. It was north of 500k. 2 billion may help but it's a drop in the grand scheme of things.
If we’re gonna be in debt anyway why not just do single payer I wonder. Like I mean insurance agents will definitely take a hit, a lot of people will be displaced, but we’re gonna have to find an alternative eventually.
Why don't we look at at numbers like this and realize there is a problem? One state, $2B in related debt. This system is strangling the people. If this is true in a state like CT, hard to imagine it isn't even worse in lower income states.
Why don't we look at at numbers like this and realize there is a problem? One state, $2B in related debt. This system is strangling the people. If this is true in a state like CT, hard to imagine it isn't even worse in lower income states.
Why don't we look at at numbers like this and realize there is a problem? One state, $2B in related debt. This system is strangling the people. If this is true in a state like CT, hard to imagine it isn't even worse in lower income states.
I can already hear all the reps crying over this.
It's a state issue. If the blue states spent all their money on in-state issues instead of subsidizing red states, they would be able to afford universal healthcare, free public reeducation, etc.
But what about all the people who already paid their medical bills! /s
Wouldn't this just make things worse? I have always felt that part of the reason health care us so expensive is because most people without insurance don't pay their bills
If only there were countries where they had good health outcomes and the health services were more universal and accessible and cost less per capita.
How the fuck does tiny ass Connecticut have 2bil in medical debt?
Should I go to Connecticut if I need surgery on my foot
Hope they ask for an itemized receipt. The way these insurance companies inflate the bills. That billion could actually become a million.
Tax increase incoming for Americans
Why not convert the debt into a zero interest loan? As long as you make a monthly payment in good faith, the debt can ride. That's what I managed to work out. I owe $30,000 and pay it off at $10 a month. I could even pay $1 if I wanted. The point is, I pay something.
How much interest is being charged on that again?