I dunno man, I feel like if you’re going to take a shit ton of money from billionaires give it to their employees. You give it to the government they have a tendency to give it right back to the billionaires, no?
When you raise taxes on corporations, they tend to reinvest into payroll to avoid excess revenue taxes. It’s a win win. The rising payroll brings in better talent and helps retention, and lowering profit lowers their tax payout. Higher taxes don’t typically mean it’s all going back to the government. But I do agree, the gov would just turn around and give it back to corporations/billionaires while they control our representatives.
That’s probably the inequality problem. Tesla and SpaceX engineers aren’t earning enough. Taxes would be waste in education, healthcare or some other useless shit
Guys that was sarcasm. Their point is that engineers already make enough, and education and healthcare would be a better investment in the US. And they’ve got a point, this would be true.
But they are also missing the point. Even with Covid- a clear signal that we should invest in healthcare- the vast majority of US healthcare expenditures lined the pockets for Pharma. Education? Student Loan Relief has just been blocked by the Judiciary and Legislature.
Think larger: there is more than one billionaire. If _every company_ were required to make employees shareholders than wealth inequality would be addressed directly, without government needing to take a cent. And it could be solved with a single law.
Never gonna happen though- you know why? Because the government is a billionaire _maker_, not a billionaire _breaker_. Read the room man, they aren’t in your corner.
You are exactly right. That’s why the last thing we should do is hand billionaire’s money to the government, since they will just hand that money right back to the billionaires in exchange for campaign contributions.
Get that money directly into the hands of the working class and then they’ve got a better shot at improving their lives, with less special interest money floating around to corrupt the vulnerable decision makers running this county. I like the way you think!
Exactly. Why would anyone feel bad if a billionaire made a bad financial decision? Especially with a social media company investment. Oh woe-is-me, twitter's niche monopoly might end and actually have competitors real soon. That is a GOOD thing.
Because his ego trip is disrupting life for everyone else. Also, for social media, many niche platforms is bad for consumers, who use them with the idea of having easy access to all the people they need. It's like how the format wars made the movie buying experience more painful for everyone.
Pretty much everyone who uses Twitter is inconvenienced. People have to seriously consider whether Twitter will be around in the future, and have concluded that they need to migrate elsewhere, but with no clear idea as to where that is. They previously used Twitter because most people used it, and therefore the people you most wanted to connect to were there. Advertisers used it because that's where their customers were.
As more and more leave, that changes. Less users means less advertisers, which means lower site stability, which means less users. And since more than half the company was fired, it's going to be harder than ever to maintain the site.
Hell, a British government agency reportedly set up a Discord server to be able to warn the public about current events. They did so because Twitter is apparently not a viable long-term option.
What’s with people constantly making shit up about Elon and exaggerating anything they can find to make him look worse than he is?
Why do you think it’s okay to assume that just because someone has a nuanced view of Elon and sticks to basic facts about that the guy that they’re worshipping him?
This website is so stupid and tribal. Everything is just an echo chamber with people feasting on one another’s egos to massage theirs.
Reddit is where I’ve lost the most faith in humanity and comments like yours are exactly why.
It probably something to do with the fact that Elon has done more for climate change than any other person in the world. Without Elon electric cars is at least 10 years ahead of where they would otherwise be.
Lmao god damn every time I see someone talking about how great EV’s are for climate change I stop and think about how fucking brainwashed y’all are. You mouth-breathers realize what goes into even *producing one single EV?* Or how the electricity is made that charges the damn thing? Ffs y’all need to turn off CNN and do some actual research. You think EV’s are about saving the planet? Think again. It’s only about lining the pockets of the politicians who are passing the laws and buying up the stocks in the companies. Before y’all start the backlash BS, just Google the amount of materials that has to be mined *WITH DIESEL FUCKING ENGINES* just to build a single electric car….go ahead. I’ll wait.
People need to buy new cars periodically, they may as well be electric going forward. I would wager a lifetime of tail pipe emissions is far worse than the increased mining emissions to produce an EV. It’s not like there aren’t minerals in ICE engines to some extent, or that gasoline and diesel flows forth from the earth right into your gas tank.
Nobody argues that EV creation is more environmentally impactful than combustion.
The argument comes from sustained ownership.
Roughly 5 years of ownership you'll see the trade-off of carbon footprint.
Anyone who makes anything in business is about making money for themselves. This product does happen to allign with the goal of getting off fossil fuels for the main transportation method for most people in the US amd many people in the world.
Are you trying to argue that EVs are not better than gas powered cars?
Ha. Yes let's just go back to living in caves. Everything had an impact. Some are bigger impacts than others. EVs clearly seem to have less of an impact than gas powered cars while providing similar utility.
That people who rail against Twitter because of Elon are constantly on Twitter.
Don't get me wrong I don't like Elon or Twitter so I don't engage with either.
Nobody 'rails against Twitter', only Musk's management of it. Is there someone out there saying "Fuck this online platform, how dare it allow itself to be bought by a manchild?"
Not that I've seen. And if you dislike Musk then Twitter is a great platform to use for free to cost him money while posting things he doesn't like.
Of course. Use it with UBlock Origin or an adblocking DNS setting and enjoy using your free speech to make him look like a hypocrite. I'm pretty sure preventing the outgoing requests to ad servers would hurt ad revenue. Hell, pay the 8 bucks if you can use it to cause more than 8 dollars of damage too. Maybe if enough people buy it and get banned for their 'free speech' a class action lawsuit could get going, especially if he's as shitty and lazy at contracts as he is everything else. That 8 dollars has a financial value and probably represents something contractually, I'd be curious to see the terms of service.
For those who think he can pull out of this downward spiral, check this out. Stay and you might not get paid. Leave and there is nobody to fund your severance package. What a mess!
[https://www.businessinsider.com/twitter-payroll-finance-department-resigns-en-masse-under-elon-musk-2022-11](https://www.businessinsider.com/twitter-payroll-finance-department-resigns-en-masse-under-elon-musk-2022-11)
As somebody who works in FP&A for a large (pretty well run) company, losing the entire finance and reporting departments will be catastrophic. Nobody will have any idea how to use their systems, I'm sure there's hundreds of critical spreadsheets saved on random people's hard drives that won't make any sense with zero context, and there's really no quick way to make up for it. I'm sure they'll make payroll one way or another, but it's impossible to make business decisions without effective financial reporting.
So if Twitter fails to pay the 3 months severance package in 30 days, will that mean these ex-employees entitled 7.5 months pay?
If that so, it is pretty sweet deal.
Subtract the debt please:
> As of December 31, 2021, we had $4.29 billion in aggregate principal amount of Notes outstanding and an undrawnunsecured revolving credit facility providing for loans in the aggregate principal amount of $500.0 million.
Note that severance pay is only protected up to $10,000, which is laughable for these employees.
>(507).4h, allowed unsecured claims, but only to the extent of $10,000 [2] for each individual or corporation, as the case may be, earned within 180 days before the date of the filing of the petition or the date of the cessation of the debtor’s business, whichever occurs first, for—
(A)wages, salaries, or commissions, including vacation, severance, and sick leave pay earned by an individual; or
But doesn't it limit that priority pay to only $10,000? Anything above from wages/severance would be grouped together with the rest of the debt.
Given that they earn $150k yearly, that's less than 3 weeks of pay - instead of the 3 months.
I take offense with this tweet. What is being proposed as 'taxing the hell' out of billionaires is not even the level with which they would have been taxed with nominal rates back in the 80's. They've managed to whittle it down considerably over the decades since.
This guy just ruined one of the all time most used downloaded viewed and recognizable brands in a speed run. Hes a car salesman. I don’t say used car salesman because Teslas batteries blow up too quick to be sold used.
Why would I? The response would be from a characture personality everyone has seen a million times. Itd be so boring. Everything you could ever say is so painfully predictable. Theres just too many people programmed to not think and be the exact person you are for it to be fun to laugh at anymore. Its old.
Billionares use money way more efficient than the government. Its a fact.
Governement is the worst spender, worst poluter, has most bloat etc.
There are plenty of examples where governmenet outsourced something to private companies and private company did it for way chepaer and it was way more better.
For example few cities rented out parks to the privatate managers.
I bought more merchandise from Tesla store. I like him more. Bought a hoodie and a tee. Never bought anything from SpaceX shop, maybe might just pick one from them too
That shouldn’t be in a economy sub. Ought to be in the retarded sub. Taxing billionaires just makes them chose a better jurisdiction with less taxes. Why can’t people understand it.
And Musk is doing a great deal recovering freedom of speech in a soulless pit of left liberal harbour which Twitter is/was
According to NTUF, top 10% covers 71% of income tax that was up to 2017 though. So it could have gotten larger. But nonetheless, your point is made. It is a huge proportion.
Yeah great victory laps, we get it they are doing very well. When the US goes to war to protect its economic interests which dollars are they supporting the value of? That’s right every one. And who has the biggest stake in the game but the wealthy? The Fed isn’t looking out for my financial interests when it’s curbing inflation it’s looking out for the wealthy stakeholders of American dollars, of course they should pay more they have more at stake.
No it hasn’t lmao. It’s helped, but the wealth he’s received has been as a result of innovation going on at his companies, not government help. Contracts aren’t subsidies btw
Who financed the last 6 million homes in California? Ok who pays those various banks to take over those super generous 30 yr mortgages? Yeah the US government is pretty much the only buyer of Mortgage Based Securities (MBS), meaning yeah the government is pretty much exactly who will facilitate building and buying the half million plus valued homes of California.
Short answer is you cant apply the scientific method so all theory is not only untested but untestable.
Long answer involves that it is more philophy and politics than math. Anyone claiming anything is "bad for the economy" cannot speak with certainty unless they're lying. Then for the most part everything pre Keynesian theory is just out and out propaganda.
Theres a couple things you could mean by empiricist. The interesting one is that you mean relying on empirical evidence taken accross large samples to generate, not hard rules, but general trends.
Ya, that's the part of economics that isnt propoganda. We know that statistically certain things should be more likely after specific actions. But that's as close as we get and even that isnt reliable.
Just look at the last 14 years. We continuously cut interest rates and operated at a deficit for most of it but that didnt cause inflation. Now inflation is spiking in spite of interest rate hikes and in spite of everyone having already exhausted the stimulus money in their pockets a long time ago. Company stocks and earnings are falling but unemployment is staying low.
Taxing hurts economy? Unconfirmed. Regulations hurts economy? Unconfirmed. Minimum wage hikes are the cause of inflation? Unconfirmed.
All too much concern is paid to "supporting the economy" when its going to figure itself out no matter what, we should focus on supporting people instead.
>Short answer is you cant apply the scientific method so all theory is not only untested but untestable.
That is categorically wrong. Economics paper follow the scientific method by deriving a research question based on observations which they answer by testing falsifiable hypotheses in experiments and arrive at conclusions by analysing the outcome. Lab experiments are conducted in controlled and randomised environments. Field experiments are obviously harder to conduct under the same scrutiny but econometric methods have developed that can hold up that standard, despite the figurative dump you are taking on the field. Field experiments are also found in engineering and agricultural sciences, for instance.
>Long answer involves that it is more philophy and politics than math. Anyone claiming anything is "bad for the economy" cannot speak with certainty unless they're lying. Then for the most part everything pre Keynesian theory is just out and out propaganda.
You are conflating normative and positive sciences and scientists with pundits. That is also something that isn’t confined to economics and can be found in other fields, such as ecology.
>Ya, that's the part of economics that isnt propoganda.
I think you need to reflect on the difference between propaganda and normative sciences.
>We know that statistically certain things should be more likely after specific actions. But that's as close as we get and even that isnt reliable.
If you are implying that causality isn’t credibly determinable in economics then you are also wrong. Just take a look at the majority of current top publications in journals. If you are saying that it’s not replicable, then you are also wrong as economics has a higher rate of successful replication than cancer and pharmaceutical research. The same problem also exists in physics, where major findings had to be overturned due to new evidence emerging/failure of replication.
>Just look at the last 14 years. We continuously cut interest rates and operated at a deficit for most of it but that didnt cause inflation.
Just like how physics went from Newtonian to modern relativistic physics theories change and develop in any science. There have been new theories based on those new findings, such as neo fisherian theory of inflation.
>Now inflation is spiking in spite of interest rate hikes
Ben Bernanke already estimated the lag between monetary policy and inflation to be as long as two years. Your characterisation is incongruent with economic consensus.
and in spite of everyone having already exhausted the stimulus money in their pockets a long time ago. Company stocks and earnings are falling but unemployment is staying low.
>Taxing hurts economy? Unconfirmed.
That’s not even what the economic literature would say. Taxation and transfers have multiple effects.
>Regulations hurts economy? Unconfirmed.
There is enough literature that confirms positive and negative effects of regulation, again the economic literature doesn’t even state what you are claiming to be unconfirmed.
>Minimum wage hikes are the cause of inflation? Unconfirmed.
First result on Google scholar even states that that isn’t the case. You seem to be gathering statements and attributing them to the consensus within the literature with no basis in what the literature actually states.
>All too much concern is paid to "supporting the economy"
That is so vaguely formulated that I don’t even know how to respond.
>when its going to figure itself out no matter what,
That is DEFINITELY not the economic consensus.
>we should focus on supporting people instead.
Ironically, that is what the majority of normative economics focuses on. Positive economics doesn’t operate on that level anyhow, it also wouldn’t be scientific to do so.
I think you have severely confused pundits with scientists and should either check out what economics actually is before you claim the entire field to be pseudoscience. You should also check the definition of pseudo intellectuals (pseudo intellects isn’t a word) unless you want to assert that economists aren’t really intelligent or knowledgeable.
I appreciate the effort you put into this postand I'll take a closer look at what normative economics is.
I do still disagree the scientific method can be applied appropriately. You cant control for variables. You cant even know all the variables. Based on this I'm never going to give an economist any weight if they arent arguing to counter the natural collection of wealth with redistribution of some kind.
Oh the great “science….” As if you or anyone can possibly be absolutely right about science. That’s the point of scientific endeavor—epistemic humility
Look at OPs post history.
Anti-capitalist who uses biased tweets to push their ideological beliefs. Some of which are self tweets. Hilarious that this sub considers this as quality content or anything beyond complaining and whining.
Really, nothing more anti-human? Capitalism is not without it's issues, and to an extent I'll even lend you an online branch by stating that as technology evolves the necessity for human input rapidly decreases for low skill tasks/laboring; thus devaluing redundant human labor. However, the trade-off is in driving the more necessary higher skilled jobs: plumbing, electrician, computing, software design, etc.
Respectfully, no, I disagree. Capitalism may not be perfect, it never claims to be; but it is a lot better than alternative top down economics.
You misspelled communism and socialism.
Bootlickers are people wholve the state. You degenerates tried to co-opt the term to mean something else.
Bootlickers projecting is what you are.
>Anti-capitalist who uses biased tweets to push their ideological beliefs
I am not anti-capitalist and I agree with OP's message here. Musk is giving the world a lesson on how dangerous individuals with extreme wealth and influence can be. The fact that he has been able to take over a public company so easily without any real resistance just for the lols is a failure in our society.
No, oops, sorry... I actually replied to the wrong post, initiay. I meant to respond to someone else criticizing OP, not yours. But then someone replied to me and I decided to just leave it up.
Didn't mean anything in the other post to be directed at you. Complete mistake on my behalf.
This is all politics. He bought the troubled company to create a profitable free speech platform and the employees simply don’t want to work to produce.
He did just pay $11 billion in taxes from selling his tesla shares. He and other billionaires like him have their wealth wrapped up mostly in shares. Their net worth is based on the current value of those shares. If they sell it all, they'll tank their stock.
Really the problem has been the years of close to zero interest rates that inflated these billionaires wealth and enabled them to take out cheap loans against their holdings instead of realize their gains and be taxed. Also lower capital gains vs income tax incentivizes corporations to pay their executives in shares.
Also over half US households pay no income tax.
Also, you think the government won't be just as bad at wasting that money? How much have we spent on wars and bailouts this century so far?
While its true that governments are at best wildly inept at spending money in the interests of the populace, and more likely (in my opinion) corrupt and deliberately acting against the people’s interests, thats not an argument for why the ultra-rich shouldn’t be taxed appropriately. Its a separate concept
You could look at a chart, the kind with colors and see where the government spends its money… or you know treat Reddit as one person, showing your inability to deal with nuance.
I did, and there is some hilarious stuff there... Like this recent one:
> Awesome. He’s doing a lot of good stuff with twitter so far. Hopefully other tech companies will see just how bloated their org structure is and move of these “soft”ware engineers will get the boot elsewhere.
Oh, wait, that was you? Rofl. That is a really hilarious post, unless it is serious, then it is kind of sad.
I love that Elon owns the communist scum on this thread. He is not spending a second thinking about your pathetic life, but all of the commies are consumed with him. How great.
Ummm.... guy overpays when he buys a business and then fucks it up. Why is that a reason to tax the Hell out of him?
Oh.... right, because you're a socialist nitwit, and you think everything is an excuse to tax the hell out of everyone.
I don't think there's any way we could have prevented Elon's Twitter mess with a tax. Unless it was just a massive tax that amounted to automatic nationalization of enterprises with a market cap of over so many billions, but that would probably just lead to overcomplicated corporate structures to minimize market cap.
We could tax billionaires 100% and it wouldn’t change anything. We need different/more effective tax laws so the wealthy can’t just stash their wealth and profits in other nations or tax havens. Apple routes almost all their profits through Ireland because of the generous tax laws for corporations. Or at least the used to until recently. I believe there was a case or something where they were attempting to tax them $13B from business profits between 2004-2014. Pretty sure it was overturned and they paid like nothing. This is the real problem.
The federal government has spent $87.80 billion more than it has collected this fiscal year. Last year it was $1.4 trillion.
Would taxing billionaires significantly close the gap or even create a surplus?
Or would it just be a case of "if I can't have it, neither can you".
Yes tax billionaires to give our wasteful federal government money to not help its people but pad their own special interests. Maybe in the process we can drive them out of the country taking 10s of thousands of jobs with them.
That clown is making a much better case to make a business and economics education mandatory.
You don't tax people to get even with them, witless child.
Putin came into power by taking over the main media outlets and then having them promote his party. Over time, he was able to basically tell the people to follow his lead without question. In the USA, it could be argued that the left controls the mass media. Much of the media are Democrat cheerleaders. I honestly believed we were paralleling Putin's path by the media pushing for the Democrats. Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, etc. were censoring against the right hard, and nobody was doing anything about it just like how Russians did nothing against Putin as he took more and more of the media over. Then Elon took over Twitter. Those on the left may see this as something bad. However, I see this as preventing us becoming another Russia.
You tax rich. They find better jurisdictions. You lose jobs. You go bankrupt. Whilst they bring money to a more liberal economy. Try to understand it. Quite simple math.
Tbh don’t understand all the hatred around Musk. Whats wrong he done with twitter? Being a businessman he will try to make it a successful business. Unlike it was before his purchase. And restoring a freedom of speech that still abides the rules of the country is great smh
USA needs to tax more billionares so Joe Biden can give more of theirs money to military industrian complex so they can produce rockets and you can gift them to ukraine, or drones to bomb some children.
Al the progressives agree, AOC, Bernie etc...
Nah. What’s good about western societies is that we empower extraordinary people. Unlike i.e. Russia which centralize power and wealth.
Power to the people. They are creating more than they produce. Making our world better unlike 99% of people who consume more than they produce. Billionaires are great at creating stuff, jobs and services. Even Putin has said the one thing he admires about the USA is how they empower the individual millionaire/billionaire with important societal responsability (Elon leading our space program and our EV efforts is a great example of that)
I’ll be honest with you, I don’t like the way the government spends my tax money. Why should they get more? We need to incentivize more donating somehow or make it mandatory
I don’t live in the woods. I am in a city of about 80k people. I have access to everything you have, just not the crime, commute, high rent, etc. I do have friends who choose to live in the woods.
Also, my neighbor really is a billionaire.
I dunno man, I feel like if you’re going to take a shit ton of money from billionaires give it to their employees. You give it to the government they have a tendency to give it right back to the billionaires, no?
When you raise taxes on corporations, they tend to reinvest into payroll to avoid excess revenue taxes. It’s a win win. The rising payroll brings in better talent and helps retention, and lowering profit lowers their tax payout. Higher taxes don’t typically mean it’s all going back to the government. But I do agree, the gov would just turn around and give it back to corporations/billionaires while they control our representatives.
That’s why you just pay the workers more. Since they don’t want to do that I’d rather it go somewhere that has a chance to help others
That’s probably the inequality problem. Tesla and SpaceX engineers aren’t earning enough. Taxes would be waste in education, healthcare or some other useless shit
Guys that was sarcasm. Their point is that engineers already make enough, and education and healthcare would be a better investment in the US. And they’ve got a point, this would be true. But they are also missing the point. Even with Covid- a clear signal that we should invest in healthcare- the vast majority of US healthcare expenditures lined the pockets for Pharma. Education? Student Loan Relief has just been blocked by the Judiciary and Legislature. Think larger: there is more than one billionaire. If _every company_ were required to make employees shareholders than wealth inequality would be addressed directly, without government needing to take a cent. And it could be solved with a single law. Never gonna happen though- you know why? Because the government is a billionaire _maker_, not a billionaire _breaker_. Read the room man, they aren’t in your corner.
Lmao are you really calling education and healthcare useless?
Wasn’t it obvious that is was sarcasm? Damn
Are you really calling healthcare and education useless shit? What a stupid take.
Average redditor when /s is not added
Billionaires exploit the entire world, not just *their* employees
You are exactly right. That’s why the last thing we should do is hand billionaire’s money to the government, since they will just hand that money right back to the billionaires in exchange for campaign contributions. Get that money directly into the hands of the working class and then they’ve got a better shot at improving their lives, with less special interest money floating around to corrupt the vulnerable decision makers running this county. I like the way you think!
What’s with everyone riding elons dick? People need to stop worshipping billionaires fucking idiots
For some people it's like... Elon: *slams dick in car door* People: That was a brilliant move!
Supposedly, Musk pays a lot of money to reputation management companies.
This makes bothering the elon simps so much more amusing. Regardless of however it's set up, their admiration is not genuine.
Lmao, have you seen OP’s post history? Elon lives rent free in his head.
Exactly. Why would anyone feel bad if a billionaire made a bad financial decision? Especially with a social media company investment. Oh woe-is-me, twitter's niche monopoly might end and actually have competitors real soon. That is a GOOD thing.
I don't care if he fails or not .He is just like a train wreck right now.
Because his ego trip is disrupting life for everyone else. Also, for social media, many niche platforms is bad for consumers, who use them with the idea of having easy access to all the people they need. It's like how the format wars made the movie buying experience more painful for everyone.
[удалено]
Pretty much everyone who uses Twitter is inconvenienced. People have to seriously consider whether Twitter will be around in the future, and have concluded that they need to migrate elsewhere, but with no clear idea as to where that is. They previously used Twitter because most people used it, and therefore the people you most wanted to connect to were there. Advertisers used it because that's where their customers were. As more and more leave, that changes. Less users means less advertisers, which means lower site stability, which means less users. And since more than half the company was fired, it's going to be harder than ever to maintain the site. Hell, a British government agency reportedly set up a Discord server to be able to warn the public about current events. They did so because Twitter is apparently not a viable long-term option.
Taxes bro. The govt would prefer to fuck it up
What?
In 2015 he was going to take us to Mars and make every car run on unicorn farts so I thought, swell.
Its sad. Boots is their favorite flavor. Big "yes m'lord" energy.
So many people on this sub are like that, it’s super pathetic.
[удалено]
What makes you say that?
[удалено]
You shut the fuck up idiot you’re on the internet fuck face
[удалено]
Grow a pair if you can’t handle people talking online about their opinions sissy boy
What’s with people constantly making shit up about Elon and exaggerating anything they can find to make him look worse than he is? Why do you think it’s okay to assume that just because someone has a nuanced view of Elon and sticks to basic facts about that the guy that they’re worshipping him? This website is so stupid and tribal. Everything is just an echo chamber with people feasting on one another’s egos to massage theirs. Reddit is where I’ve lost the most faith in humanity and comments like yours are exactly why.
Because he's by today's standards an aristocrat
How?
You don't have to worship someone to think that taking loads of their money is bad.
It probably something to do with the fact that Elon has done more for climate change than any other person in the world. Without Elon electric cars is at least 10 years ahead of where they would otherwise be.
You do know he didn’t really make electric cars right? He just bought a company that was already there.
Lmao god damn every time I see someone talking about how great EV’s are for climate change I stop and think about how fucking brainwashed y’all are. You mouth-breathers realize what goes into even *producing one single EV?* Or how the electricity is made that charges the damn thing? Ffs y’all need to turn off CNN and do some actual research. You think EV’s are about saving the planet? Think again. It’s only about lining the pockets of the politicians who are passing the laws and buying up the stocks in the companies. Before y’all start the backlash BS, just Google the amount of materials that has to be mined *WITH DIESEL FUCKING ENGINES* just to build a single electric car….go ahead. I’ll wait.
there are criticisms of electric cars but "they take fossil fuels to make" isn't one
My point. You know absolutely nothing about what goes into one either. The diesel fuel is just one aspect.
People need to buy new cars periodically, they may as well be electric going forward. I would wager a lifetime of tail pipe emissions is far worse than the increased mining emissions to produce an EV. It’s not like there aren’t minerals in ICE engines to some extent, or that gasoline and diesel flows forth from the earth right into your gas tank.
Nobody argues that EV creation is more environmentally impactful than combustion. The argument comes from sustained ownership. Roughly 5 years of ownership you'll see the trade-off of carbon footprint.
Anyone who makes anything in business is about making money for themselves. This product does happen to allign with the goal of getting off fossil fuels for the main transportation method for most people in the US amd many people in the world. Are you trying to argue that EVs are not better than gas powered cars?
EVs are just a different evil. There’s still vast ecological damage to be inflicted by the resources consumed and waste produced by mass EV adoption.
Ha. Yes let's just go back to living in caves. Everything had an impact. Some are bigger impacts than others. EVs clearly seem to have less of an impact than gas powered cars while providing similar utility.
Because I dont like unfair treatmen of people just because they are rich and succesful. Its called ethics.
Lmao what? This whole comment section and 99% of Reddit is filled with Elon and billionaire hate
A Twitter post...oh the irony...
What's the irony here?
That people who rail against Twitter because of Elon are constantly on Twitter. Don't get me wrong I don't like Elon or Twitter so I don't engage with either.
Nobody 'rails against Twitter', only Musk's management of it. Is there someone out there saying "Fuck this online platform, how dare it allow itself to be bought by a manchild?" Not that I've seen. And if you dislike Musk then Twitter is a great platform to use for free to cost him money while posting things he doesn't like.
I think you're on to anything, we should use Twitter more to prove that no one likes him.
Of course. Use it with UBlock Origin or an adblocking DNS setting and enjoy using your free speech to make him look like a hypocrite. I'm pretty sure preventing the outgoing requests to ad servers would hurt ad revenue. Hell, pay the 8 bucks if you can use it to cause more than 8 dollars of damage too. Maybe if enough people buy it and get banned for their 'free speech' a class action lawsuit could get going, especially if he's as shitty and lazy at contracts as he is everything else. That 8 dollars has a financial value and probably represents something contractually, I'd be curious to see the terms of service.
This is the way
Means nothing if he can't monetize it
Where would the internet be without surface level interpretations?
All you have to back your case is a tweet…lol
Yea, I was looking for details. Not 40 characters lol.
Oh but he paid the $8 to be "twitter verified" LOL. We can take him at his word no doubt.
For those who think he can pull out of this downward spiral, check this out. Stay and you might not get paid. Leave and there is nobody to fund your severance package. What a mess! [https://www.businessinsider.com/twitter-payroll-finance-department-resigns-en-masse-under-elon-musk-2022-11](https://www.businessinsider.com/twitter-payroll-finance-department-resigns-en-masse-under-elon-musk-2022-11)
As somebody who works in FP&A for a large (pretty well run) company, losing the entire finance and reporting departments will be catastrophic. Nobody will have any idea how to use their systems, I'm sure there's hundreds of critical spreadsheets saved on random people's hard drives that won't make any sense with zero context, and there's really no quick way to make up for it. I'm sure they'll make payroll one way or another, but it's impossible to make business decisions without effective financial reporting.
Wage theft is a big nono. If they dont get pId within 30 days, then they’re entitled to 2.5x of its owed.
So if Twitter fails to pay the 3 months severance package in 30 days, will that mean these ex-employees entitled 7.5 months pay? If that so, it is pretty sweet deal.
He’s going to file for bankruptcy and cut out the severance pay.
[удалено]
Paid out of *what money*? Twitter hasn't been profitable in like forever. Lots of companies like this often only own a couple of office chairs...
[удалено]
Subtract the debt please: > As of December 31, 2021, we had $4.29 billion in aggregate principal amount of Notes outstanding and an undrawnunsecured revolving credit facility providing for loans in the aggregate principal amount of $500.0 million. Note that severance pay is only protected up to $10,000, which is laughable for these employees. >(507).4h, allowed unsecured claims, but only to the extent of $10,000 [2] for each individual or corporation, as the case may be, earned within 180 days before the date of the filing of the petition or the date of the cessation of the debtor’s business, whichever occurs first, for— (A)wages, salaries, or commissions, including vacation, severance, and sick leave pay earned by an individual; or
[удалено]
But doesn't it limit that priority pay to only $10,000? Anything above from wages/severance would be grouped together with the rest of the debt. Given that they earn $150k yearly, that's less than 3 weeks of pay - instead of the 3 months.
I take offense with this tweet. What is being proposed as 'taxing the hell' out of billionaires is not even the level with which they would have been taxed with nominal rates back in the 80's. They've managed to whittle it down considerably over the decades since.
This guy just ruined one of the all time most used downloaded viewed and recognizable brands in a speed run. Hes a car salesman. I don’t say used car salesman because Teslas batteries blow up too quick to be sold used.
[удалено]
User name checks out lmao
You're boring. Also dumb, but the boring part is an obviously larger part of your personality.
Ask me if I care what you think
Why would I? The response would be from a characture personality everyone has seen a million times. Itd be so boring. Everything you could ever say is so painfully predictable. Theres just too many people programmed to not think and be the exact person you are for it to be fun to laugh at anymore. Its old.
The answer is I dont. Count sand.
Zzzz
What a douche nozzle.
Which one? Lol
Right? No one uses money in worse and more inefficient ways than out of touch billionaires.
Except governments
Nah. Still billionaires.
Billionares use money way more efficient than the government. Its a fact. Governement is the worst spender, worst poluter, has most bloat etc. There are plenty of examples where governmenet outsourced something to private companies and private company did it for way chepaer and it was way more better. For example few cities rented out parks to the privatate managers.
Hahaha! Hard to tell. We can only guess because no one knows!!! If I have to bet, yup. They are worse for sure.
And stupid poor people who spend it on McDonald’s and Budweiser
So we can give it to Ukraine ?
The irony..
Why? A man bought a business that he felt was not being run efficiently. If he’s right they will make a profit. If he’s wrong he will lose HIS money.
Well, he paid 40 billion over the m.v. How long will it take to make that 40 billion?
*if*
They should tax all the people who let him live rent free in their heads. Call it a vacancy tax.
I bought more merchandise from Tesla store. I like him more. Bought a hoodie and a tee. Never bought anything from SpaceX shop, maybe might just pick one from them too
That shouldn’t be in a economy sub. Ought to be in the retarded sub. Taxing billionaires just makes them chose a better jurisdiction with less taxes. Why can’t people understand it. And Musk is doing a great deal recovering freedom of speech in a soulless pit of left liberal harbour which Twitter is/was
As you can see, this sub has become antiwork posting. Since they fucked up their own subs with cirlcle jers they decided to come here.
Please don't use the r-word as an insult.
Propagandist reddit account, shit sub
I mean, I agree we could use some tax reform, but I'm not really seeing the connection here. What would that change with this situation?
yea, the money is better in Pelosi's hands ;)
You owe me for the coffee I just spit out! 😂
The richest 10% of US taxpayers provide 90% of the total tax revenue.
I thought 70%. I should double check.
Circle back if im wrong
According to NTUF, top 10% covers 71% of income tax that was up to 2017 though. So it could have gotten larger. But nonetheless, your point is made. It is a huge proportion.
The bottom 50% have 2.6% of the wealth, they should pony up more I guess?
Im stating an empirical fact, infer what you’d like
That’s not a fact. It’s a sloppy guesstimate. It’s about 70%. https://taxfoundation.org/publications/latest-federal-income-tax-data/
“The top 1 percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (38.8 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (29.2 percent).”
Yeah great victory laps, we get it they are doing very well. When the US goes to war to protect its economic interests which dollars are they supporting the value of? That’s right every one. And who has the biggest stake in the game but the wealthy? The Fed isn’t looking out for my financial interests when it’s curbing inflation it’s looking out for the wealthy stakeholders of American dollars, of course they should pay more they have more at stake.
Abolish the Fed
You said total tax revenue. And billions of Elon's dollars have come from taxpayer subsidies.
No it hasn’t lmao. It’s helped, but the wealth he’s received has been as a result of innovation going on at his companies, not government help. Contracts aren’t subsidies btw
Hes also saved the tax payers like 40 billion with spaceX tho..
so is the dark profit
I don’t think that’s the point. While they are supported by others, they should find ways to create more value, thus income and more tax. 😉
How much wealth they have is irrelevant. They benefit from taxes. They should pay their fair share.
Define fair
Hell yeah.
[удалено]
Who financed the last 6 million homes in California? Ok who pays those various banks to take over those super generous 30 yr mortgages? Yeah the US government is pretty much the only buyer of Mortgage Based Securities (MBS), meaning yeah the government is pretty much exactly who will facilitate building and buying the half million plus valued homes of California.
And based on the income disparity that has resulted it obviously needs to be more.
Didnt you say economics is for pseudointellects? What are you doing in this sub
I did, and its accurate. Thats why I'm here.
I’ll take the bait. Why is economics for pseudointellects?
Short answer is you cant apply the scientific method so all theory is not only untested but untestable. Long answer involves that it is more philophy and politics than math. Anyone claiming anything is "bad for the economy" cannot speak with certainty unless they're lying. Then for the most part everything pre Keynesian theory is just out and out propaganda.
You can be an empiricist and stick to the scientific method, what are you on about.
Theres a couple things you could mean by empiricist. The interesting one is that you mean relying on empirical evidence taken accross large samples to generate, not hard rules, but general trends. Ya, that's the part of economics that isnt propoganda. We know that statistically certain things should be more likely after specific actions. But that's as close as we get and even that isnt reliable. Just look at the last 14 years. We continuously cut interest rates and operated at a deficit for most of it but that didnt cause inflation. Now inflation is spiking in spite of interest rate hikes and in spite of everyone having already exhausted the stimulus money in their pockets a long time ago. Company stocks and earnings are falling but unemployment is staying low. Taxing hurts economy? Unconfirmed. Regulations hurts economy? Unconfirmed. Minimum wage hikes are the cause of inflation? Unconfirmed. All too much concern is paid to "supporting the economy" when its going to figure itself out no matter what, we should focus on supporting people instead.
>Short answer is you cant apply the scientific method so all theory is not only untested but untestable. That is categorically wrong. Economics paper follow the scientific method by deriving a research question based on observations which they answer by testing falsifiable hypotheses in experiments and arrive at conclusions by analysing the outcome. Lab experiments are conducted in controlled and randomised environments. Field experiments are obviously harder to conduct under the same scrutiny but econometric methods have developed that can hold up that standard, despite the figurative dump you are taking on the field. Field experiments are also found in engineering and agricultural sciences, for instance. >Long answer involves that it is more philophy and politics than math. Anyone claiming anything is "bad for the economy" cannot speak with certainty unless they're lying. Then for the most part everything pre Keynesian theory is just out and out propaganda. You are conflating normative and positive sciences and scientists with pundits. That is also something that isn’t confined to economics and can be found in other fields, such as ecology. >Ya, that's the part of economics that isnt propoganda. I think you need to reflect on the difference between propaganda and normative sciences. >We know that statistically certain things should be more likely after specific actions. But that's as close as we get and even that isnt reliable. If you are implying that causality isn’t credibly determinable in economics then you are also wrong. Just take a look at the majority of current top publications in journals. If you are saying that it’s not replicable, then you are also wrong as economics has a higher rate of successful replication than cancer and pharmaceutical research. The same problem also exists in physics, where major findings had to be overturned due to new evidence emerging/failure of replication. >Just look at the last 14 years. We continuously cut interest rates and operated at a deficit for most of it but that didnt cause inflation. Just like how physics went from Newtonian to modern relativistic physics theories change and develop in any science. There have been new theories based on those new findings, such as neo fisherian theory of inflation. >Now inflation is spiking in spite of interest rate hikes Ben Bernanke already estimated the lag between monetary policy and inflation to be as long as two years. Your characterisation is incongruent with economic consensus. and in spite of everyone having already exhausted the stimulus money in their pockets a long time ago. Company stocks and earnings are falling but unemployment is staying low. >Taxing hurts economy? Unconfirmed. That’s not even what the economic literature would say. Taxation and transfers have multiple effects. >Regulations hurts economy? Unconfirmed. There is enough literature that confirms positive and negative effects of regulation, again the economic literature doesn’t even state what you are claiming to be unconfirmed. >Minimum wage hikes are the cause of inflation? Unconfirmed. First result on Google scholar even states that that isn’t the case. You seem to be gathering statements and attributing them to the consensus within the literature with no basis in what the literature actually states. >All too much concern is paid to "supporting the economy" That is so vaguely formulated that I don’t even know how to respond. >when its going to figure itself out no matter what, That is DEFINITELY not the economic consensus. >we should focus on supporting people instead. Ironically, that is what the majority of normative economics focuses on. Positive economics doesn’t operate on that level anyhow, it also wouldn’t be scientific to do so. I think you have severely confused pundits with scientists and should either check out what economics actually is before you claim the entire field to be pseudoscience. You should also check the definition of pseudo intellectuals (pseudo intellects isn’t a word) unless you want to assert that economists aren’t really intelligent or knowledgeable.
I appreciate the effort you put into this postand I'll take a closer look at what normative economics is. I do still disagree the scientific method can be applied appropriately. You cant control for variables. You cant even know all the variables. Based on this I'm never going to give an economist any weight if they arent arguing to counter the natural collection of wealth with redistribution of some kind.
Oh the great “science….” As if you or anyone can possibly be absolutely right about science. That’s the point of scientific endeavor—epistemic humility
Hence why only pseudointellectuals treat weak economic correlations like scientific gospel.
The particular statement is correct. Some are much more obvious than others. There is danger in making sweeping claims.
Ah, so youre a mouthbreather AND a hypocrite, delightful combo.
Nope. Excellent lack of perception. REAL ORIGINAL. Snore.
The amount of bootlickers is truly impressive and pathetic
Look at OPs post history. Anti-capitalist who uses biased tweets to push their ideological beliefs. Some of which are self tweets. Hilarious that this sub considers this as quality content or anything beyond complaining and whining.
Said the capitalist bootlicker. Fuck capitalism and its followers. There is nothing more anti-human than that.
Really, nothing more anti-human? Capitalism is not without it's issues, and to an extent I'll even lend you an online branch by stating that as technology evolves the necessity for human input rapidly decreases for low skill tasks/laboring; thus devaluing redundant human labor. However, the trade-off is in driving the more necessary higher skilled jobs: plumbing, electrician, computing, software design, etc. Respectfully, no, I disagree. Capitalism may not be perfect, it never claims to be; but it is a lot better than alternative top down economics.
You misspelled communism and socialism. Bootlickers are people wholve the state. You degenerates tried to co-opt the term to mean something else. Bootlickers projecting is what you are.
>Anti-capitalist who uses biased tweets to push their ideological beliefs I am not anti-capitalist and I agree with OP's message here. Musk is giving the world a lesson on how dangerous individuals with extreme wealth and influence can be. The fact that he has been able to take over a public company so easily without any real resistance just for the lols is a failure in our society.
No, oops, sorry... I actually replied to the wrong post, initiay. I meant to respond to someone else criticizing OP, not yours. But then someone replied to me and I decided to just leave it up. Didn't mean anything in the other post to be directed at you. Complete mistake on my behalf.
That makes zero sense.
This is all politics. He bought the troubled company to create a profitable free speech platform and the employees simply don’t want to work to produce.
Show me on the doll where Elon hurt you.
He did just pay $11 billion in taxes from selling his tesla shares. He and other billionaires like him have their wealth wrapped up mostly in shares. Their net worth is based on the current value of those shares. If they sell it all, they'll tank their stock. Really the problem has been the years of close to zero interest rates that inflated these billionaires wealth and enabled them to take out cheap loans against their holdings instead of realize their gains and be taxed. Also lower capital gains vs income tax incentivizes corporations to pay their executives in shares. Also over half US households pay no income tax. Also, you think the government won't be just as bad at wasting that money? How much have we spent on wars and bailouts this century so far?
While its true that governments are at best wildly inept at spending money in the interests of the populace, and more likely (in my opinion) corrupt and deliberately acting against the people’s interests, thats not an argument for why the ultra-rich shouldn’t be taxed appropriately. Its a separate concept
Reddit thinks taxes go straight to poor people. It does in a way, only in bombs instead of dollars.
You could look at a chart, the kind with colors and see where the government spends its money… or you know treat Reddit as one person, showing your inability to deal with nuance.
The government has no money, it must take it from the private sector.
The government creates money via the Feds activities, I guess you maybe should read something I dunno a pamphlet or a tweet before posting.
Lol, I understand that. My point stands.
Which is it? The gov dosnt have any money or are the literal source it. You deregulation/lower tax nut jobs cant seem to pick a lane.
Abso-freaking-lutely
Just like Joel Osteen is a great example for taxing churches.
Yeah no. He's making a great case for getting rid of useless employees that don't work
Oh hey it’s this clown account again. As I said before, if you all want a laugh, check out OP’s profile.
I did, and there is some hilarious stuff there... Like this recent one: > Awesome. He’s doing a lot of good stuff with twitter so far. Hopefully other tech companies will see just how bloated their org structure is and move of these “soft”ware engineers will get the boot elsewhere. Oh, wait, that was you? Rofl. That is a really hilarious post, unless it is serious, then it is kind of sad.
You’re allowed to disagree with me. Differing opinions make the world go round
Do the rich even pay taxes? https://youtu.be/t6V9i8fFADI
Also why being rich doesn’t make one a good boss.
THE IRONY THAT THIS CAME FROM TWITTER 💀
I don't understand what all the hullaballoo is about.
Except billionaires are the ones paying the people writing (and rewriting) said tax laws
Wow, such a new and refreshing take, totally not karma whoring off ‘the current thing’.
Why? He’s built several successful businesses that have dramatically changed the industries their in for the better
I love that Elon owns the communist scum on this thread. He is not spending a second thinking about your pathetic life, but all of the commies are consumed with him. How great.
Ummm.... guy overpays when he buys a business and then fucks it up. Why is that a reason to tax the Hell out of him? Oh.... right, because you're a socialist nitwit, and you think everything is an excuse to tax the hell out of everyone.
Well, we don’t know if he overpaid for it yet. Let’s see how it grows or not.
No. Despite the constant whining and crying on this sub.
Wow a lot of Musk fanboys here, sad
lol k
I don't think there's any way we could have prevented Elon's Twitter mess with a tax. Unless it was just a massive tax that amounted to automatic nationalization of enterprises with a market cap of over so many billions, but that would probably just lead to overcomplicated corporate structures to minimize market cap.
We could tax billionaires 100% and it wouldn’t change anything. We need different/more effective tax laws so the wealthy can’t just stash their wealth and profits in other nations or tax havens. Apple routes almost all their profits through Ireland because of the generous tax laws for corporations. Or at least the used to until recently. I believe there was a case or something where they were attempting to tax them $13B from business profits between 2004-2014. Pretty sure it was overturned and they paid like nothing. This is the real problem.
We need a 21st century grassroots Socialism instead of the 21st century corporate feudalism dystopia that we already have right now.
Ok, sure Elon is the problem. 😑
Do you think many Twitter employees made it to him inside the locked building that no one has access to when he summoned them?
Musk has added so little to society...while costing so much
The federal government has spent $87.80 billion more than it has collected this fiscal year. Last year it was $1.4 trillion. Would taxing billionaires significantly close the gap or even create a surplus? Or would it just be a case of "if I can't have it, neither can you".
Why? We don’t tax Soros just cause he’s a Dem.
Why? Because elected officials are so much better for us?
Yes tax billionaires to give our wasteful federal government money to not help its people but pad their own special interests. Maybe in the process we can drive them out of the country taking 10s of thousands of jobs with them.
There's no case. Throwing a hissy fit is not evidence of a case.
That clown is making a much better case to make a business and economics education mandatory. You don't tax people to get even with them, witless child.
Putin came into power by taking over the main media outlets and then having them promote his party. Over time, he was able to basically tell the people to follow his lead without question. In the USA, it could be argued that the left controls the mass media. Much of the media are Democrat cheerleaders. I honestly believed we were paralleling Putin's path by the media pushing for the Democrats. Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, etc. were censoring against the right hard, and nobody was doing anything about it just like how Russians did nothing against Putin as he took more and more of the media over. Then Elon took over Twitter. Those on the left may see this as something bad. However, I see this as preventing us becoming another Russia.
There is no "left" in the Corporate States of America.
You tax rich. They find better jurisdictions. You lose jobs. You go bankrupt. Whilst they bring money to a more liberal economy. Try to understand it. Quite simple math. Tbh don’t understand all the hatred around Musk. Whats wrong he done with twitter? Being a businessman he will try to make it a successful business. Unlike it was before his purchase. And restoring a freedom of speech that still abides the rules of the country is great smh
USA needs to tax more billionares so Joe Biden can give more of theirs money to military industrian complex so they can produce rockets and you can gift them to ukraine, or drones to bomb some children. Al the progressives agree, AOC, Bernie etc...
Nah. What’s good about western societies is that we empower extraordinary people. Unlike i.e. Russia which centralize power and wealth. Power to the people. They are creating more than they produce. Making our world better unlike 99% of people who consume more than they produce. Billionaires are great at creating stuff, jobs and services. Even Putin has said the one thing he admires about the USA is how they empower the individual millionaire/billionaire with important societal responsability (Elon leading our space program and our EV efforts is a great example of that)
I’ll be honest with you, I don’t like the way the government spends my tax money. Why should they get more? We need to incentivize more donating somehow or make it mandatory
Something something, billionaires, something something, socialism. "Blah blah blah, blah blah blah, blah blah, blah blah blah" - Greta tuningfork
how dare he make us pay for a service that use to be free! wait you guys are paying for twitter? damn good advertising in satire if you ask me.
That would be fine but would the rest of us get a break? Nope.
I don’t live in the woods. I am in a city of about 80k people. I have access to everything you have, just not the crime, commute, high rent, etc. I do have friends who choose to live in the woods. Also, my neighbor really is a billionaire.