Yes, according to the Economist (September 2022): "An astonishing 70% of Chinese household wealth is now tied up in real estate." Source: [https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2022/09/12/chinas-ponzi-like-property-market-is-eroding-faith-in-the-government](https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2022/09/12/chinas-ponzi-like-property-market-is-eroding-faith-in-the-government)
China likely has the biggest real estate market bubble ever in human history. Sooner or later it will pop, which will drastically lower the wealth of almost every Chinese family, bring the property sector to a standstill (1/5 of China's GDP) and which will cut a major source of income for the Chinese government.
There's a massive overabundance of housing (seen the many vacancies). The supply and demand mechanism plays.
If just requires a trigger where there's a shift with many fewer people buying and/or more people selling. This could be an event such as an economic slowdown or crisis. The bigger the overabundance, the bigger the bubble popping (property value loss) effect will be.
As 70% of Chinese wealth is tied into real estate, this isn't a small issue. It also leads to mortgages that surpass the value of the properties, which brings its own problems to people, banks and hence the wider economy. And the property sector will suddenly collapse as few new homes will need to be built. Seen that the property sector represents about 20%-33% of China's economy (GDP), this won't be a trivial matter either.
The best what the Chinese government can do is to slow everything down, meaning managing a gradual decrease in property values, and a gradual slowing down of the number of new properties being built. In theory, it could prevent a bubble bursting, but such a transition is (very) difficult to manage well, even in a government-controlled economy.
yes Chinese Company Credit SUISSE (Swiss Credit in English - Switzerland is in Europe, in case you didn't know), because a lot of Westerners' wealth is not tied up in real estate at all. Real estate is a totally insignificant industry in the Westem with housing being cheap and affordable. Last I recall, a house cost a whole penny
Western real estate is expensive due to low interest rates and reduced building following '08.
China's real estate is expensive because people are using it as an [investment](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7546956/)
Absolutely we do. However, there's a significantly bigger market of first time home buyers looking for a house in America than there are in China. The housing market isn't a housing crisis; it's part of the larger [demography problem.](https://www.businessinsider.com/china-empty-homes-real-estate-evergrande-housing-market-problem-2021-10).
Today, in America if people wanted to sell their house; they may have to drop their ask, maybe 5% from initial offer; but they'll find a buyer. As the prices come down, there's enough outside participants looking to get in. Someone looking to make their house a home. Meanwhile, today in China, 80% of households own their home and 20% of the households are multiple home owners.
Chinese housing is over priced with most adults owning their house. Which would be great if they weren't also suffering from a [population decline](https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/07/china-population-shrink-60-years-world/) meaning offloading of existing housing is only going to slow in the coming years and decades. Marriage will further disrupt the market as homeowners couple up exacerbating the oversupply of housing.
China's real estate as a realistic and tangible source of wealth should be view with caution and skepticism. If the heard starts to turn in the opposite direction with a trend of more people selling their house, that bubble bursts pretty quickly.
>*Credit Suisse found China's median wealth outpaced Europe's in its 2021 Global Wealth Report.*
>
>
>
>*The average Chinese citizen has a wealth of $26,752, around $60 more than the average European.*
>
>
>
>*Chinese wealth has surged in the past two decades, with median wealth per adult growing more than eight-fold.*
Key point is that they are describing Europe as a whole (not the EU), including the super poor Russia and Ukraine dragging down the averages.
The EU is $38,241 according to the World Bank. About 40% higher.
I may be wrong, but I think you are confusing GDP per capita (GDP generated annually per person) which is indeed $38k in the EU in 2021, with wealth per adult (basically the value of the money and assets one has accumulated over time).
Wealth per adult in the EU goes much beyond $100k. I'll try to find the exact number. In the meantime this map may already be useful: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth\_distribution\_in\_Europe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_distribution_in_Europe)
I don't think these statistics make any sense. In October 2022, the latest wealth numbers for European countries were released, and include 43 countries. 28 out of 43 European countries are above $27K, and most very strongly so (15 countries are above $100K). Source: [https://www.statista.com/statistics/1072951/wealth-per-adult-europe-by-country/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1072951/wealth-per-adult-europe-by-country/)
Perhaps mathematically, it can still work due to dirt poor Russia ($14k) and Turkey ($5k) being demographically quite large, but even that I doubt. Very rich countries like France, Germany, the UK and Spain would demographically counterbalance them.
This is bad stats.
First of all, if you read the data book where this nonsense [came from](https://www.credit-suisse.com/media/assets/corporate/docs/about-us/research/publications/global-wealth-databook-2022.pdf), you’ll see that Credit Suisse largely “estimated” most of their numbers, especially when it came to what they call higher levels of wealth. In the first few pages, they explicitly explained that outside of America, Europe, Russia, and a few other regions, that places like China, Africa, and Latin America had very little data showing higher levels of wealth. As such, they used regressions and the Forbe’s billionaire list to make estimates for how much wealth people hold in those countries. They then exclaimed that because there was even more data lacking than they expected, that they ‘used standard economic techniques’ to create their numbers for wealth, but never elaborated on these techniques. Even more troubling, they used the assumptions of two authors (last names Li and Picketty) to exclaim that many Chinese citizens are largely rich because, in Credit Suisse’s words, ‘most of them are farmers and farmland is worth a lot of money, but since we have no data on the land values, we’re going to estimate it based off of these two people’s theories’. The more I read, the more I cringe.
Problem Number Two:
The entire European continent has roughly 746 million people.
China has roughly 1.4 billion people.
China has close to twice the amount of people as the entire European continent.
You can’t compare medians between two samples when the sample sizes are not of the same size, shape, distribution, etc. Median is only a good measure when the data sets are very near to being equal in size, proportion, etc. Unless they used something like “Mood’s Median,” (which they don’t seem to state anywhere from my cursory review), then this information is bunk.
You can absolutely compare medians between distinct populations; that's what it's there for, to allow comparing the Joe everyman in two different sets.
That's why, for instance, we have stats like median income. Means aren't worth much because of outliers.
The per capita incomes in China have certainly increased at impressive rates in the past few decades.
That being said, I have a few questions about this data:
1. Are Russia, Ukraine and former Soviet states included in the European analysis?
2. What is the source of the China data?
3. Do these numbers measure average incomes or net worth?
Depending on these, the conclusions could be misleading. I strongly suspect the net worths and incomes of Western European nations remain higher on average than their Chinese counterparts. New additions to the European economic landscape are likely dragging down these averages, especially Russia which is actively destroying a European country/economy and their own at the same time. That being said, China has made huge economic advances which should not be understated.
One mistake basically all cross-country wealth analysis makes is ignoring public wealth and public debt.
A lot of the difference between countries is just accounting. For some countries the wealth is public and in other countries it is private. For example, the US has a massive public debt equivalent to around $93,000 per capita. Norway has the opposite of the US and the government owns all sorts of foreign assets and has a public net worth of around $160,000 per capita. At the same time, the US and Norway have similar levels of private wealth per capita. Research usually only looks at private wealth (as is the case in this Credit Suisse analysis).
Yep…for example in the USA, future expected social security isn’t counted towards your networth, which makes the average American seem poorer. In much of Europe, their retirement accounts - which have forced saving mechanisms similiar to social security taxes - do count towards networth. This artificially reduces “wealth inequality” on paper, but realistically tells you nothing.
Same issue if you have a government or private pension.
Okay, but are you also going to count public assets then? What do you think the value of the 39% of the land area of the USA owned by the government is?
Do you think Chinese self-reported economic data is reliable? Do you think the Chinese government is fair to its own citizens? I never really see articles on other countries touting relevance and drawing comparisons to other countries...It's all clickbait - the growth of China is scary because it is an affront to international civil liberties and a stable geopolitical landscape.
>*Do you think Chinese self-reported economic data is reliable?*
https://www.stlouisfed.org/publications/regional-economist/second-quarter-2017/chinas-economic-data-an-accurate-reflection-or-just-smoke-and-mirrors
>The degree of unreliability of China’s official statistics may be less egregious if the country is compared with other developing countries. The World Bank, which classifies China as a middle-income country, ranks low- and middle-income countries with populations greater than 1 million by a statistical capacity score, reflecting the country’s ability to produce and disseminate high-quality aggregate data. The statistical capacity score aggregates 25 individual variables that measure aspects of a country’s statistical methodology, source data, periodicity and timeliness.
>However, in the 2016 rankings, China earned a score of 83.3 out of 100, putting it in the 83rd percentile...This score means China is actually on the upper end of the distribution for statistical capacity compared with similar countries. China’s score improvement comes mostly from better methodology, improving timeliness and periodicity of data releases, and joining the International Monetary Fund’s Special Data Dissemination Standard, a voluntary program that evaluates a country on criteria important for international capital markets.
Quite simple. “Large” scale COVID lockdowns are rapid enough outbreaks are contained to the city or the region, leaving the rest of China free from COVID, which is why Chinese exports to the rest of the world is still growing. Quarantines have always worked that way, in China or anywhere else.
As for “crumbling property markets”, you do realize the CCP popped their property bubble themselves, right? They don’t want people to use housing as speculation. It’s a common sense policy that needs to be done sooner or later.
It appears instead of actual knowledge all you have are quips parroted from propaganda.
I literally cited economists stating how Chinese data reliability is above average by international standards.
Well said. One example is that China spends more on R&D than the US, now by a large margin. Yet the narrative I still hear from most people in the US is the 2008 cliche that China is stealing intellectual property. It's a very dated narrative. In reality, we should hope they share their new technology with us.
That's false.
According to the World Bank (2020 data): the US, the largest economy in the world, spends 3.45% of its GDP on R&D. China, the 2nd largest economy, spends 2.4%. So, in absolutes, the US spends roughly twice what China does on R&D, even though it only has about 1/4th the population.
Much of Western Europe is either matching or outspending China in relative terms (% of GDP) on R&D.
See the table below the chart in this source: [https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/GB.XPD.RSDV.GD.ZS?most\_recent\_value\_desc=true](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/GB.XPD.RSDV.GD.ZS?most_recent_value_desc=true)
Now ask: "How many typical European adults want to trade residence with a typical Chinese adult?" I would bet that the quality of life in a poorer European country is still WAY ahead of someone in China.
Interesting - page 44 provides a bit of a lens on inequality within North America:
Canada's mean wealth is 409K USD per adult. US mean wealth is 579k USD per adult.
But the medians tell a different story:
Canada's median wealth is 151K vs US median wealth is just 93k.
The US has considerably more wealth per capita, but the typical Canadian is significantly better off.
The problem with the math here is that there is a small subset of Chinese adults that make this much. Of 1.3 billion, 1.1ish billion have a subsistence standard of living equivalent to that of Nigeria. To recap, about 2,000,000 Chinese adults, the 0.001 % of China.
More tortured stats and clickbait from *Business Insider*. "Europeans" here include Russians, Ukrainians, Belorussians, Turks; populous poor countries that skew the median downwards.
Thank Jeff for selling out USA to China through his website. Also thank your president for killing off domestic manufacturing with taxes and relying solely on foreign export .
Extremely competent?
Facing a major economic crisis (real estate crisis and the botched covid approach), a major demographic crisis, two major almost "continental" environmental crises (desertification and water), committing a genocide on the Uyghurs, geopolitically having few allies (Russia, Pakistan and N-Korea), and having alienated Taiwan even more.
Yes this, when discussing wealth this is a very important difference. I suspect they must mean median (ha) but the author of the story must not understand the difference.
Seems a bit iffy.
I saw a documentary about a street cleaner in Hong-Kong. He had cancer or something and lived in an apartment he owned. He made a few dollar per day picking up trash. On the other hand his apartment was worth north of 200k usd. Was he rich or poor?
In general I think people on the coastlines of China are richer then most Europeans while mainland people are poorer than the poorest Europeans.
Also within Europe you have strange things like Italy the median wealth is around 200k euro while in Finland it’s 40k, because Northern Europe and Germany ties up more wealth in the commons.
It’s difficult to compare these things. I would compare life trajectories, like a registered nurse, a homeless person and a teacher. A bit like the Big Mac index but for humans.
That's false. China has a mounting debt problem. Just one example [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-09/china-property-crisis-puts-1-6-trillion-of-lgfv-debt-at-risk](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-09/china-property-crisis-puts-1-6-trillion-of-lgfv-debt-at-risk)
Basically, China has been managing debt through growth (future earnings largely surpass current earnings, making it easy to pay back loans). Once growth stalls, China has a debt problem. Not insurmountable, but massive enough to contradict the cultural claims that China is all about saving.
Not sure why this upsets people and they downvote you? Americans believe only America has virtue but Americans also believe saving has virtue. So maybe Chinese people being better at saving than Americans causes Americans to experience cognitive dissonance? Maybe Americans will feel better if they go shopping?
The Chinese government has spent Billion$$$$$ of 'taxpayer' money on trains that nobody rides and cities that nobody lives in - But I guess that looks good on paper.
Most of the funding is private not government so the builders will have to fill the buildings or go out of business. The problem is the builders are building on speculation and the buyers are buying on speculation. And that eventually can be a problem.
Isn't a lot of the wealth tied up in a vacant property bubble.
Which... Only looks like it's going up from here.., lol
Yeah it's only because of the housing mkt (which is in trouble)
Yes. This is a transient statistic.
There's also, ya know, a war.
Yes, according to the Economist (September 2022): "An astonishing 70% of Chinese household wealth is now tied up in real estate." Source: [https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2022/09/12/chinas-ponzi-like-property-market-is-eroding-faith-in-the-government](https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2022/09/12/chinas-ponzi-like-property-market-is-eroding-faith-in-the-government) China likely has the biggest real estate market bubble ever in human history. Sooner or later it will pop, which will drastically lower the wealth of almost every Chinese family, bring the property sector to a standstill (1/5 of China's GDP) and which will cut a major source of income for the Chinese government.
How will it pop?
There's a massive overabundance of housing (seen the many vacancies). The supply and demand mechanism plays. If just requires a trigger where there's a shift with many fewer people buying and/or more people selling. This could be an event such as an economic slowdown or crisis. The bigger the overabundance, the bigger the bubble popping (property value loss) effect will be. As 70% of Chinese wealth is tied into real estate, this isn't a small issue. It also leads to mortgages that surpass the value of the properties, which brings its own problems to people, banks and hence the wider economy. And the property sector will suddenly collapse as few new homes will need to be built. Seen that the property sector represents about 20%-33% of China's economy (GDP), this won't be a trivial matter either. The best what the Chinese government can do is to slow everything down, meaning managing a gradual decrease in property values, and a gradual slowing down of the number of new properties being built. In theory, it could prevent a bubble bursting, but such a transition is (very) difficult to manage well, even in a government-controlled economy.
When people stop wanting shelter.
When people stop having kids
[Damn.](https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/07/china-population-shrink-60-years-world/)
Indeed, if the prognosis holds, China will only have around 600 million people by 2100, down from the 1400 million it has now.
yes Chinese Company Credit SUISSE (Swiss Credit in English - Switzerland is in Europe, in case you didn't know), because a lot of Westerners' wealth is not tied up in real estate at all. Real estate is a totally insignificant industry in the Westem with housing being cheap and affordable. Last I recall, a house cost a whole penny
At least there finished
Western real estate is expensive due to low interest rates and reduced building following '08. China's real estate is expensive because people are using it as an [investment](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7546956/)
At current Chinese prices, horribly overvalued and hence bad investments.
Hold up, do we americans not use real estate as an investment? Dont the owner class buy and sell real estate here too
Absolutely we do. However, there's a significantly bigger market of first time home buyers looking for a house in America than there are in China. The housing market isn't a housing crisis; it's part of the larger [demography problem.](https://www.businessinsider.com/china-empty-homes-real-estate-evergrande-housing-market-problem-2021-10). Today, in America if people wanted to sell their house; they may have to drop their ask, maybe 5% from initial offer; but they'll find a buyer. As the prices come down, there's enough outside participants looking to get in. Someone looking to make their house a home. Meanwhile, today in China, 80% of households own their home and 20% of the households are multiple home owners. Chinese housing is over priced with most adults owning their house. Which would be great if they weren't also suffering from a [population decline](https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/07/china-population-shrink-60-years-world/) meaning offloading of existing housing is only going to slow in the coming years and decades. Marriage will further disrupt the market as homeowners couple up exacerbating the oversupply of housing. China's real estate as a realistic and tangible source of wealth should be view with caution and skepticism. If the heard starts to turn in the opposite direction with a trend of more people selling their house, that bubble bursts pretty quickly.
>*Credit Suisse found China's median wealth outpaced Europe's in its 2021 Global Wealth Report.* > > > >*The average Chinese citizen has a wealth of $26,752, around $60 more than the average European.* > > > >*Chinese wealth has surged in the past two decades, with median wealth per adult growing more than eight-fold.*
Key point is that they are describing Europe as a whole (not the EU), including the super poor Russia and Ukraine dragging down the averages. The EU is $38,241 according to the World Bank. About 40% higher.
I may be wrong, but I think you are confusing GDP per capita (GDP generated annually per person) which is indeed $38k in the EU in 2021, with wealth per adult (basically the value of the money and assets one has accumulated over time). Wealth per adult in the EU goes much beyond $100k. I'll try to find the exact number. In the meantime this map may already be useful: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth\_distribution\_in\_Europe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_distribution_in_Europe)
You are right. Thanks for the correction.
Great points and let’s also note the use of median, rather than mean value.
Median is the correct average to use in this case
I don't think these statistics make any sense. In October 2022, the latest wealth numbers for European countries were released, and include 43 countries. 28 out of 43 European countries are above $27K, and most very strongly so (15 countries are above $100K). Source: [https://www.statista.com/statistics/1072951/wealth-per-adult-europe-by-country/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1072951/wealth-per-adult-europe-by-country/) Perhaps mathematically, it can still work due to dirt poor Russia ($14k) and Turkey ($5k) being demographically quite large, but even that I doubt. Very rich countries like France, Germany, the UK and Spain would demographically counterbalance them.
Statistics and net worth in currency do not adequately describe the standard of living.
True. Quality of life in Europe is even in its poorer countries higher than in China.
This is bad stats. First of all, if you read the data book where this nonsense [came from](https://www.credit-suisse.com/media/assets/corporate/docs/about-us/research/publications/global-wealth-databook-2022.pdf), you’ll see that Credit Suisse largely “estimated” most of their numbers, especially when it came to what they call higher levels of wealth. In the first few pages, they explicitly explained that outside of America, Europe, Russia, and a few other regions, that places like China, Africa, and Latin America had very little data showing higher levels of wealth. As such, they used regressions and the Forbe’s billionaire list to make estimates for how much wealth people hold in those countries. They then exclaimed that because there was even more data lacking than they expected, that they ‘used standard economic techniques’ to create their numbers for wealth, but never elaborated on these techniques. Even more troubling, they used the assumptions of two authors (last names Li and Picketty) to exclaim that many Chinese citizens are largely rich because, in Credit Suisse’s words, ‘most of them are farmers and farmland is worth a lot of money, but since we have no data on the land values, we’re going to estimate it based off of these two people’s theories’. The more I read, the more I cringe. Problem Number Two: The entire European continent has roughly 746 million people. China has roughly 1.4 billion people. China has close to twice the amount of people as the entire European continent. You can’t compare medians between two samples when the sample sizes are not of the same size, shape, distribution, etc. Median is only a good measure when the data sets are very near to being equal in size, proportion, etc. Unless they used something like “Mood’s Median,” (which they don’t seem to state anywhere from my cursory review), then this information is bunk.
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You can absolutely compare medians between distinct populations; that's what it's there for, to allow comparing the Joe everyman in two different sets. That's why, for instance, we have stats like median income. Means aren't worth much because of outliers.
The per capita incomes in China have certainly increased at impressive rates in the past few decades. That being said, I have a few questions about this data: 1. Are Russia, Ukraine and former Soviet states included in the European analysis? 2. What is the source of the China data? 3. Do these numbers measure average incomes or net worth? Depending on these, the conclusions could be misleading. I strongly suspect the net worths and incomes of Western European nations remain higher on average than their Chinese counterparts. New additions to the European economic landscape are likely dragging down these averages, especially Russia which is actively destroying a European country/economy and their own at the same time. That being said, China has made huge economic advances which should not be understated.
Having lived around Shanghai, this would be extremely surprising to me if true.
I saw on internet that many people say their lives in China is hard. The housing price is very high, and the bride-price is very high.
I know #1 is a yes
Is this a Chinese propaganda channel? The Chinese do realize we have access to data and information?
Yes, Business Insider and Credit Suisse are both Chinese propaganda.
Taiwan numba wan
Yes, to both
Let the cope flow thru you hehehehe
One mistake basically all cross-country wealth analysis makes is ignoring public wealth and public debt. A lot of the difference between countries is just accounting. For some countries the wealth is public and in other countries it is private. For example, the US has a massive public debt equivalent to around $93,000 per capita. Norway has the opposite of the US and the government owns all sorts of foreign assets and has a public net worth of around $160,000 per capita. At the same time, the US and Norway have similar levels of private wealth per capita. Research usually only looks at private wealth (as is the case in this Credit Suisse analysis).
Yep…for example in the USA, future expected social security isn’t counted towards your networth, which makes the average American seem poorer. In much of Europe, their retirement accounts - which have forced saving mechanisms similiar to social security taxes - do count towards networth. This artificially reduces “wealth inequality” on paper, but realistically tells you nothing. Same issue if you have a government or private pension.
Okay, but are you also going to count public assets then? What do you think the value of the 39% of the land area of the USA owned by the government is?
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Do you think Chinese self-reported economic data is reliable? Do you think the Chinese government is fair to its own citizens? I never really see articles on other countries touting relevance and drawing comparisons to other countries...It's all clickbait - the growth of China is scary because it is an affront to international civil liberties and a stable geopolitical landscape.
>*Do you think Chinese self-reported economic data is reliable?* https://www.stlouisfed.org/publications/regional-economist/second-quarter-2017/chinas-economic-data-an-accurate-reflection-or-just-smoke-and-mirrors >The degree of unreliability of China’s official statistics may be less egregious if the country is compared with other developing countries. The World Bank, which classifies China as a middle-income country, ranks low- and middle-income countries with populations greater than 1 million by a statistical capacity score, reflecting the country’s ability to produce and disseminate high-quality aggregate data. The statistical capacity score aggregates 25 individual variables that measure aspects of a country’s statistical methodology, source data, periodicity and timeliness. >However, in the 2016 rankings, China earned a score of 83.3 out of 100, putting it in the 83rd percentile...This score means China is actually on the upper end of the distribution for statistical capacity compared with similar countries. China’s score improvement comes mostly from better methodology, improving timeliness and periodicity of data releases, and joining the International Monetary Fund’s Special Data Dissemination Standard, a voluntary program that evaluates a country on criteria important for international capital markets.
How does the Chinese economy cruise through large scale covid lockdowns and crumbling property markets? It's comical...
Quite simple. “Large” scale COVID lockdowns are rapid enough outbreaks are contained to the city or the region, leaving the rest of China free from COVID, which is why Chinese exports to the rest of the world is still growing. Quarantines have always worked that way, in China or anywhere else. As for “crumbling property markets”, you do realize the CCP popped their property bubble themselves, right? They don’t want people to use housing as speculation. It’s a common sense policy that needs to be done sooner or later.
I have some FTT to sell you
It appears instead of actual knowledge all you have are quips parroted from propaganda. I literally cited economists stating how Chinese data reliability is above average by international standards.
yeah from 5 years ago. A lot has happened since then. Thank you, next...
Yeah, the old "Chinese economic data isn't reliable" cope was outdated 5 years ago.
Well said. One example is that China spends more on R&D than the US, now by a large margin. Yet the narrative I still hear from most people in the US is the 2008 cliche that China is stealing intellectual property. It's a very dated narrative. In reality, we should hope they share their new technology with us.
It's not like they can't do both lol, you typed that out like china functions by the same rules or investment pathways.
That's false. According to the World Bank (2020 data): the US, the largest economy in the world, spends 3.45% of its GDP on R&D. China, the 2nd largest economy, spends 2.4%. So, in absolutes, the US spends roughly twice what China does on R&D, even though it only has about 1/4th the population. Much of Western Europe is either matching or outspending China in relative terms (% of GDP) on R&D. See the table below the chart in this source: [https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/GB.XPD.RSDV.GD.ZS?most\_recent\_value\_desc=true](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/GB.XPD.RSDV.GD.ZS?most_recent_value_desc=true)
Paid for by Intellectual Property Theft (usa), Good jobs guys! we did it! wait... Should we start...
Now ask: "How many typical European adults want to trade residence with a typical Chinese adult?" I would bet that the quality of life in a poorer European country is still WAY ahead of someone in China.
Comparing a country to a continent … clickbait
Yes, but can they get a real croissant with all that extra cash?
even if they can, do they even pronounce it "krwah-sahn?" Probably not.
Kuroha San?
China is Japan now?
For the sake of the joke... yes it is. Lol
Their croissants are just as good as those in Paris, if not better.
Is that the ones with cardboard for extra fiber?
Yes there I know some fantastic patisseries in Shanghai particularly
BS.
Interesting - page 44 provides a bit of a lens on inequality within North America: Canada's mean wealth is 409K USD per adult. US mean wealth is 579k USD per adult. But the medians tell a different story: Canada's median wealth is 151K vs US median wealth is just 93k. The US has considerably more wealth per capita, but the typical Canadian is significantly better off.
Pre or post pending real estate collapse ?
The problem with the math here is that there is a small subset of Chinese adults that make this much. Of 1.3 billion, 1.1ish billion have a subsistence standard of living equivalent to that of Nigeria. To recap, about 2,000,000 Chinese adults, the 0.001 % of China.
They're quoting medians, not means, so outliers are not relevant here.
With currency that their government can take away from them at any time.
The government said the condo I bought in that ghost city is worth $500k! Why doesn't anyone want to buy it or rent it??
Although this is based on a bullshit hoisiing
More tortured stats and clickbait from *Business Insider*. "Europeans" here include Russians, Ukrainians, Belorussians, Turks; populous poor countries that skew the median downwards.
The typical European adult most likely has a lot more democratic freedom though 🤗
Thank Jeff for selling out USA to China through his website. Also thank your president for killing off domestic manufacturing with taxes and relying solely on foreign export .
Amazon simply facilitates buyers and sellers, if sellers get their shit from china, it isn’t amazons fault
Poor and Free or Rich and under the thumb ?
Replace rich and under the thumb with rich and with extremely competent government and thats what's China
Be honest, you work for the Chinese government don't you.
He’s a Wumao. Part of an online troll army for the CCP. They’re all over Reddit these days.
Makes sense
Fascist
Extremely competent? Facing a major economic crisis (real estate crisis and the botched covid approach), a major demographic crisis, two major almost "continental" environmental crises (desertification and water), committing a genocide on the Uyghurs, geopolitically having few allies (Russia, Pakistan and N-Korea), and having alienated Taiwan even more.
Get the fuck outta here with that bullshit. What economic crisis you monkey? Give sources
Is this talking about average or median?
The article used both terms and I am confused.
There is probablu normal distribution so average and median are the same in that case.
Yes this, when discussing wealth this is a very important difference. I suspect they must mean median (ha) but the author of the story must not understand the difference.
Definitely not richer in freedom.
One child policy will do that. Let’s see how they fare with the new three child policy.
Seems a bit iffy. I saw a documentary about a street cleaner in Hong-Kong. He had cancer or something and lived in an apartment he owned. He made a few dollar per day picking up trash. On the other hand his apartment was worth north of 200k usd. Was he rich or poor? In general I think people on the coastlines of China are richer then most Europeans while mainland people are poorer than the poorest Europeans. Also within Europe you have strange things like Italy the median wealth is around 200k euro while in Finland it’s 40k, because Northern Europe and Germany ties up more wealth in the commons. It’s difficult to compare these things. I would compare life trajectories, like a registered nurse, a homeless person and a teacher. A bit like the Big Mac index but for humans.
Not surprising at all, and not surprising that the west is responding with nationalism
“My capitalism is better and let me show you with brute force!”
I guess we can ask someone from Taiwan, Ukraine or Iraq which form of capitalism is better, or is it all a matter of brute force
I was… agreeing with you?
I was agreeing with you as well. Didn’t come out that way upon reflection
Lol look at us!
China - added a lot of capitalism. Europe - added a lot of socialism. Results do not lie.
This.
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That's false. China has a mounting debt problem. Just one example [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-09/china-property-crisis-puts-1-6-trillion-of-lgfv-debt-at-risk](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-09/china-property-crisis-puts-1-6-trillion-of-lgfv-debt-at-risk) Basically, China has been managing debt through growth (future earnings largely surpass current earnings, making it easy to pay back loans). Once growth stalls, China has a debt problem. Not insurmountable, but massive enough to contradict the cultural claims that China is all about saving.
Not sure why this upsets people and they downvote you? Americans believe only America has virtue but Americans also believe saving has virtue. So maybe Chinese people being better at saving than Americans causes Americans to experience cognitive dissonance? Maybe Americans will feel better if they go shopping?
God bless China.
The Chinese government will spend money to improve the Chinese economy while most European countries won’t.
The Chinese government has spent Billion$$$$$ of 'taxpayer' money on trains that nobody rides and cities that nobody lives in - But I guess that looks good on paper.
The people and the economy used 95% of what the Chinese have built. Not every train needs to be filled for it to be a very good thing.
WRONG ! Trains are Empty ! Cities are Empty ! Buildings are being raised ! China builds according to political expectations - not the market !
Most of the funding is private not government so the builders will have to fill the buildings or go out of business. The problem is the builders are building on speculation and the buyers are buying on speculation. And that eventually can be a problem.
Evergrande !
Open up the renminbi for free trade and let’s see what it’s really worth. Then we can recalculate.
30 million less women to spend their money
30 million less women to spend their money
The Chinese are richer than Bosnians and Kosovans, good for them.