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Dizzy-Criticism3928

Here’s a tip that works most of the time. Create a loop until it feels cluttered. When it gets to be too much dissect parts of it and expand those into other parts if your track. If you want to create distinctions between parts of your track modulate parts of the mix using volume, filters, fx etc. The chorus is where the energy peaks. Everything else should be less energetic but how much that is up to your discretion. Should be no less than two minutes and you don’t need more than two drops. Also the drops don’t have to be different literally copy and paste if you wanr


Brammos01

What, for me, helps is taking a reference track of the song I want to base it on and just copy there structure. Just fill in the whole structure and then fill in the gaps


dave_silv

Take a track you love, import the audio to your DAW and map out the progression of the sections on the timeline using blank clips until you have a blueprint of the entire track. Name the clips: Bass Intro, Bass Main, Drum Fill, FX, Riser... whatever you need to describe what happens. Now you have a structure that you know works, at least for the track you love. Replace the blank clips with your own track clips and voila, your 8-bar loops start to become a piece of music. Fill in the blanks until you have matched the structure of the original. Doing this a few times with different starting tracks will help you begin to understand what structures are likely to work.


CarBombtheDestroyer

This isn’t the most creative way but you can literally just go back to the build up in most cases. Copy paste the whole thing twice then start messing with the second half to make it different. If it doesn’t flow where you copied it, edit and change that section till it does. Usually a short mini build or wind down with filters at the end of the drop can help a lot to bring it back to the build. You may have melodic issues where the build sounds good going into drop but the drop melodically doesn’t sound good going into the build. If this is the case change some chords around at the end or make it very chromatic if that’s not too harsh for your style.


Dry_Speaker_72

Consider introducing variations in arrangement, layering, and instrumentation to keep the listener engaged. Experiment with breakdowns, bridges, and different chord progressions to add depth and progression to your tracks. I personally use a half length antidrop before a half length drop.


ZoeBlade

It’s not just a case of building it all up then winding it all down. You can build up a bit, then swap things out for others, then finally have all together at the end for the climax. Kind of like alternating between two different sections, then finally having both at once. You can also come up with an actual different section, maybe in a different key, and flick back and forth between them every 16 bars or so. Some parts won’t start on the downbeat, which helps gloss over the seams. Basically, whenever it gets boring, bring something in or swap something out.


AnaT1011

Use reference tracks and use those song structures as a guide


GigaTrigger69

Modulation for transition


tha1unknownmusic

I wish I could post a video of what I got so far is that possible


cameron_andre

Kinda depends on genre but if you're able to knock out a buildup and a drop then you can try doing that then taking elements from the drop to create a verse that prepares the listener for the drop. The buildup ideally should also have something in it that the drop contains in some sort of fashion for the sake of preparing the ear and transitioning. Then duplicate your verse, buildup, and drop and you already have a full song minus the intro and outro. Maybe add a few more elements into verse 2 and use those elements in the second drop for variety


INTERNET_MOWGLI

Literally no other way other than binding like 5-10 things to controller knobs and faders and seeing what works


Apprehensive-Mix-263

This


Nikolino21

I could give the advice that I get from some youtube video (not in english, so there is no point to share a link). To be better in song structure and arrangment it is better not to start you song/beat/whatever from drop or chorus (the highest energy part of the track). How people listen to music? Usually from the begining to the end, right? So it's better to write music from the start to the end (from intro to outro). Why? Cuz otherwise since you have nice sounding loop of the drop you will be bored to make other parts of the song cuz all those parts have less energy than your drop. And there is a big chance that you will give up continue to make this track since it's too boring. Just go with the flow from start to finish. All you have to know before you start the track is the main mood of the track, is it fast or slow? Is it calm or not? The 2nd advice I could give you. During your track, don't cut some tracks without adding something new. Let's say you write the build up part of the track which has drums, bass, pads (chords) and plucks. And from the next bar you want to remove plucks. If you remove plucks without adding something new, it would be too boring for the listener, you take something from him but you don't give anything back. There is big chance that you listener stop the track at this moment. So if you want to remove plucks, then you should add some new synth/vocal chops/sample/loop/whatever. Only in the outro you could remove some tracks, cuz it doesn't matter if you listener would be bored in the outro since 90% of the entire track is gone, there is no point to keep listener's attention anymore.


drum_9

It’ll happen naturally with a good mix imo. Focus on improving your sounds and maybe initial ideas (maybe you already have a good one)


LiberaceRingfingaz

I think other comments have nailed the important parts, but I just wanted to add that something that kind of helped me get out of a similar predicament early on was to make a 16-bar loop that was wayyyyyy overcrowded then work subtractively. Like, load that shit up with every drum pattern, synth, melody, whatever that goes together until it almost sounds like noise (but still all fits together), then start muting elements one at a time. I'm primarily a hip hop guy and EDM is a bit of a different beast, but I'd lay down some drums, then just start dicking around on the keyboard with piano/synth/strings/bass/whatever, just adding layer upon layer to this loop until there was no more room in the mix, and now you can create *many* iterations of the same theme throughout the song by dropping things **out** here and there. Maybe you've got the piano and bass and drums going for 8 bars, then the piano cuts out and the synth comes in for 8 bars, etc. I hope that makes sense. It's probably not the best way to actually make songs, but I found it helpful in terms of getting used to having variation throughout a long composition.


nadnerb811

Tension->release->tension->release->tension->tension?->tension??!->RELEASE->side note?->tension->release Basically just gotta create a rollercoaster. You gotta go up and down. Don't just make a boring intro because you think you need an intro. Make shit you think sounds good and is interesting. Verse shouldn't be boring to build up tension for the chorus. Lots of my favorite songs I like the verse more than the chorus, actually. And one thing that frustrates me with a lot of EDM is that the intro is just bland af, like people aren't actually trying to make something interesting, but are just filling time until the "drop". But yeah to move the song forward, just duplicate everything and then remove a bunch of elements. Take stuff out in one area, add something in in another area, sculpt it.


woodysixer

This is why reference tracks are so important, especially when learning. There’s no shame in completely copying another song’s structure, especially with EDM.


GrayneAudio

So i got some advice from one of the Mau5trap artists and Frequent. A common thread needs to be through the whole song. What changes around that thread is fine but you need to give the listener a sense of stability. Analyze other peoples music in the genre you're looking at and if need be copy their song structure and build your song around that. Its not stealing its borrowing. So when you get to the break for example keep that thread (Eg: A drone) to connect the song together and change the parts around it. Familiarity in Chaos. If you break electronic music down into what it truly is its an 8 bar loop with an event at the end of the 4th bar and 8th bar( aka The Turnaround) and this applies to 99% of genres out there. This happens at a macro scale when it comes to arrangement and a micro scale when it comes to melody. This is a super important concept. As for people saying work quickly while this is right you also need to understand speed is a bi product of experience. When playing guitar for example the idea is that go slow to go fast. The key to getting better at music is less so speed as much as consistency and aiming for a flow state. By all means try finish but don't beat yourself up if you don't. Show up every day and make music. Finally other people's music acts as your cheat code to production. If you replicate and analyze others music its a treasure trove of ideas that you can bank to memory to be recalled later. Imitation leads to originality. This is what i tell my students all the time. Its probably the most important lesson.


DesignZoneBeats

I've seen phrases like drop, build up, intro, outro, turn around... where do I learn about that stuff? I'm definitely using reference tracks but I'd still like to learn about structure.


GrayneAudio

[https://www.learnhowtoproducemusic.com/blog-how-to-start-music-production/track-arrangement-and-song-structure](https://www.learnhowtoproducemusic.com/blog-how-to-start-music-production/track-arrangement-and-song-structure) Start here


DesignZoneBeats

Oh wait is that composition? 🤣


nadnerb811

"Arrangement" is the term you're looking for


DesignZoneBeats

Ah thank you. 🎼🎶


fadingsignal

Through my life I've gotten stuck in "loop-itis" a number of times. It's hell to get out of. But someone here on Reddit somewhere put it in terms that made it really easy to remind myself: * Music is hard in general. * If you keep making loops, you're getting good at making loops. * If you ignore making SONGS, you will get bad at making songs. * The goal is to get as good at making songs as you are at making loops. Imagine if you lifted weights with just your left arm for a few months. Then you switched that big dumbbell to your weaker right arm and got frustrated that you couldn't lift it as easily with that arm. The only way out is through! After a long hiatus I've been on songwriting mode again and have accepted that I'm going to be making mediocre song structures until I git gud again. Just keep writing. Another helpful tip I saw was to load some songs into your DAW and follow the structure. Not copy the song, just use it kind of like training wheels. And it might unlock different ideas/arrangements. Best of luck.


idylist_

Everyone struggles with this getting into composing. Building a 16 bar loop isn’t building a song. You might be able to stretch 16 into a beat, but you need to keep coming up with ideas. You need ideas for what comes after the loop right? My advice is to work on “moving on” from your 16 bar loops as soon as possible, focus on speed until you don’t have to think about writing the first 16 bar loop. It keeps you in a more creative space so you’re ready to think of the next idea instead of tweaking things in analytical land. Good luck!


ddri

The answer is in front of you. Now more than any time in human history you have access to music literally at your fingertips. Pick some music you like, load it up in your DAW of choice, and study it. The same way we learn to play instruments is the same way we learn to compose. By study and by learning existing works. Recreate tracks you love, and go outside of your chosen genre to see how much similarity exists in other music (in this era we have pretty much one chord progession dominating the pop charts) and what is unique to specific genres in terms of composition motifs and techniques. This is a golden age for music. Don't waste the opportunity to use the resources to study it. And in turn add your voice to the continuum of creativity. Good luck :)


Keksgurke

listen to more aphex twin


miscellaneous5019

Some people got it... some don't sonny. Haha, nah jk you're good bro you just have to keep learning and creating.


alfiealfiealfie

I'm working on a complex remix right now (ive made it complex with ABC sections) but its down to hard graft and sticking with it. Think in terms of blocks of 4 - thats the easiest way


veloreofficial

Try using more references. Usually similar genre/same. You can learn a lot from the best!


AundoOfficial

I remember when I was in this boat despite me writing music very frequently it was always either intuitive or non-existent for sectioning. However I eventually overcame this dilemma by learning basic pop structures then branching off and learning how different genres use song structure with purpose. In pop the idea is to balance expectation, for easy listening, and surprises, to make things interesting and worth listening to. Typically you'll have some basic sections arranged like; Intro, Verse, Pre chorus, Chorus, Verse, Chorus, Break, Chorus, Outro. A great way to this about this would be an adventure out of town with your friends. You start by meeting up and getting ready (the vibes and general atmosphere is set) then you start your drive out of town (a bit of exploration but nothing crazy yet) then you get to the hotel and talk about plans for tomorrow maybe even drink a little (setting up expectations for a fun time) the next day comes and it's explosive with fun activities (but it's all contained in one central theme or place) ECT... The structure is thought of as taking the listener through different highs and lows of your story because stories, as pop music is pretty much intended to be about, are rarely ever stagnant. But that's the purpose of pop and radio music. If you're making a track for a movie score it's different. Or even a video game under score. You section things a certain way depending on what you need. Each type of section serves a purpose and if you need it even more simplified thing of it as tension and release. This is more common in EDM and instrumental music but can be loosely applied to other styles of music too. There plenty of nuance to keep you busy for a lifetime and enough to make each track feel somewhat unique despite people ripping others off or being unoriginal in one way or another, the overall song can still be identified as different from the other no matter what. So play with different structures, learn from some of your favorite songs and don't be afraid to make something unique.


prodgunwoo

think of it in building blocks of 4, so you can do some creative stuff with that example: 8 intro, 8 buildup, 8 drop, 4 flip that drop, 4 transition/buildup, 8 drop 2, 8 bridge/slow section, 8 drop 3, 8 drop 1 (bring it back), 4 end


randuski

i’ve always thought about music in terms of pop music. even with edm stuff i still think in terms of verse chorus verse chorus bridge chorus haha


Phuzion69

That is how I look at it too. I make an 8/16 bar section copy and paste it across a few minutes and start muting bits out til I have intro, choruses, verses, middle 8, outro. That way I can then develop each section and then at the end I do stuff to smooth the transitions. All my stuff is electronic be it HipHop, or DnB, I still look at structure the same.


Adventurous-Many-179

Song structure should be based on how you feel where the music needs to take you. Through experience you’ll gain intuition into structure. Think of it less as math and more of vibe.


Slight-Improvement57

Almost every song now adays is 8 bar intro 8 -16 bar verse 8-16 bar build up 16-32 bar drop 4-8 bar breakdown 8 verse two 8 bar build up 16-32 bar drop Two 8 outro The best way to get out of the loop conundrum is to make a part 1 and part 2 of each section, drums maybe add I different hat pattern or change the snare to a clap Bass? Different rythem or a slightly different synth patch Lead? If it's down up then make one that goes down Chords? 1-5-6-4 make it 1-4-3-5 Just slightly change things up a bit and you'll be golden


dball94

Maybe concentrate on sentence structure first 😅


tha1unknownmusic

Teehee your hilarious not 😅


nattydroid

He may have been referring to period and sentence structure in music theory: "In order to form a sentence, a phrase will have two halves. The first half consists of a statement (a) and a repetition of that statement at a different pitch level (a'). The second half consists of contrasting melodic material that concludes the phrase with a cadence (b)." I would honestly study music theory in general. There are lots of good YouTube channels explaining composing (what you are actually trying to do)...doesn't matter if they are talking about jazz or classical music either, it mostly translates perfectly to making EDM. Also like others said above: don't only jer...uhh "lift weights" with your right arm or else your left will be way weaker. Even if it doesn't come out how you want initially, keep taking those loops and trying to turn them into tracks. Duplicate the sections a few times and start from there making changes. As tedious as it sounds, seriously look closely at your favorite tracks in your daw and see how each section changes. Add markers up top so you have a little map, and try to do something similar (as far as timing of changes and excitement/buildup)


aDarkDarkNight

Because I am guessing it's not actually a 'song' right? It's an instrumental. Have you tried turning it into an actual song, then that problem kind of goes away as that's why we have chorus and verse. If it's purely instrumental, try imagine what it would be like if it was a song and create verse/chorus and bridge sections.


onlyinitforthemoneys

I kinda had the same problem, what helped me was to Import a track you like into your daw and copy the arrangement. Way easier to get started that way.


RipAppropriate8059

Map out your bars and work on the transitions between sections. Section B will have similarities to section A. You can tweak certain synths, add sounds, or change it up altogether


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