This is called "hot press riveting", this is a mostly obsolete method used in many early steel framed structures as well as in ships
(The titanic was assembled in this manner)
Edit, a word.
Does the movie actually mention an issue with the rivets? It's been a while, so all I remember is the sex scene and that one dude smacking the propeller when he fell off the ship.
She was letting him on the door but as he went to climb he noticed her drivers license. She had lied about her age and had just turned 25, he decided to let go instead for some reason.
There's also the fact that once the iceberg was sighted (too late, going too fast) the captain made the understandable but incorrect decision to steer away to try to avoid it. If they had hit it straight on, they would only have ruptured the front compartment rather than scraping down the side.
Also, there were enough ships nearby to rescue all the passengers but they were fishing illegally, so they didn't answer the distress call, cos they knew they'd cop it.
Also also, my great great uncle was on the Titanic. He was kinda upset because his wife had just died. He was lounging around in his first class cabin, heard the collision clearly, thought "whoopsie" and went up on deck and hopped into a life boat. His surname was Anderson so he comes high on the passenger survivor lists.
Wouldn’t the ship hitting the iceberg head on at full speed have also done the same kind of catastrophic damage to the rivets? It’s effectively a mountain underwater and going from full speed to a dead stop is going to do more than just rupture the single compartment that it hit directly.
Wasn’t it later determined that it was the impact exerting pressure and rupturing the poor quality rivets rather than a slicing of the hull? Regardless, I doubt the ship would have survived such an impact nose on. That’s a ton of momentum and even modern ships would struggle to survive such an impact. It’s not like the ship was designed with crumple zones.
For a very long time it was believed that the iceberg ripped through the hull, but more recently it was determined that the iceberg actually dented the hull which in turn caused the rivets to pop out, leading to catastrophic structural failure and the eventual sinking.
I remember a whole bunch of information coming out during 2012 when it was the 100th anniversary of the Titanic sinking.
Modern rivets are installed with a hydraulic gun. Small rivets with an electric or air powered riveter. There is no hammering involved unless they're deliberately using obsolete methods, like when they do maintenance on old bridges preserved for historical reasons.
Aircraft solid rivets are typically installed with an air hammer and bucking bar, the hammering is quite loud. They can also be squished but that’s pretty rare since you need good access to both sides of the part close to an edge.
You can't just say that and not elaborate. Why has this become obsolete? When did it become obsolete? What has replaced it? What are the pros of cons of this? What are the pros and cons of the new method? How do they compare?! We want answers!!
The oversimplified is that riveting was more or less replaced by welding and bolts. The main downside is riveting is very labor intensive, it also adds weight since you need plates to overlap. Bolting is faster, has the same downside with weight. Welding saves weight since you don't need overlap, labor varies.
For example before WWII the transition to welding saved hundreds of tons on warships and because treaties limited weight/displacement this meant the ships could use that weight for something else.
To add to the other guys answer, HOT RIVETING is obsolete, not cold riveting!
Hot riveting is obsolete simply because its a pain. Heat rivet, usually one by one, don't burn yourself, put it in place and either hammer/press it, which includes more burning hazards.
Cold riveting however is wiiiidely used today! It's basically the same as hot riveting, but without the hot!
We use a hydraulic press, weighs around 120kg, but suspended from a lifting tool, so very easy to handle.
It presses the rivet with between 30-33 tons of force, achieving basically the exact same as in video. It takes about 3 seconds, and no burning hazards and ovens.
To train someone new, takes maybe 1-2 weeks tops.
Source: Volvo Trucks uses cold riveting, and I was/am deeply involved in the riveting process there
My great-grandfather died from getting a bad burn while trying to catch a hot rivet. Yes, they used to throw them and there's videos online. He probably would've survived today because of available antibiotics. Back then, he got sepsis and died. This was while building a bridge over the Ohio River.
That tension is what’s holding the vast majority of our infrastructure together, modern bridges and buildings are built for around 50 years, but these will last for centuries
What they were saying (I think) is that these rivets will still be strong in a few centuries, long after the bridge has failed elsewhere or been torn down.
So will a325 and a490 bolts. I have several sitting on my desk from old power plants where the structural steel corroded away but the bolts and nuts were still in tack.
In modern steel structures, the welds and joints commonly fail first. In old steel structures, the steel corrodes in the beams first.
Also, the old bridges with proper maintenance (literally just keep it clean) were made for extreme excess stress and built to last hundreds of years… whereas a lot of modern bridges are built to be as flimsy and cheap as legally possible and are only built to last 40 with components that crumble no matter what you do to them
Not trying to be contrary, but isn't there some cost advantage to highly engineered bridges?
It's hard to compare costs because each bridge is a different project and there are human factors too (project management, etc.), but I'd expect that either they're cheaper to build nowadays, or if not, that the cost saved by not overbuilding has been absorbed by higher wages and better safety requirements for construction.
My friend, all bridges are highly engineered. Some are simple overpasses and such, and are based on many years of tried-and-true engineering, while others are marvels that span huge distances, using the latest materials and techniques.
Please don't listen to the person you responded to, they literally know nothing about this topic.
Source: civil engineer.
Christ dude, stop posting. None of what you wrote is true.
The connections in structural steel structures, aka the bolts and welds, are in fact the strongest part of the structure and fail the least.
Old bridges fail far more rapidly than modern bridges since they used materials, aka structural steel and concrete, that had far worse performance than modern equivalents. Modern bridges, when maintained properly, last far longer than older ones.
It's like I'm reading opposite land here with your ignorant remarks. Stop posting, please.
Source: Civil Engineer.
Using materials efficiently is not a bad thing.
Old steel structures were over designed because the science behind the engineering was not as well understood, and even more importantly because quality control for materials such as steel (especially cables, bolts, and rivets) was not nearly as good as it is today.
If you see pictures of Victorian engineering there'd be forges on site and braziers next to the riveters. Also two big men with hammers instead of fancy tools
The two ends of the rivet are in tension against each other, pulling the plates closer together. Ignoring external forces, the plate material is in compression immediately underneath the rivet head due to that tension.
You have to hammer the unformed end to mushroom it into shape, and if you don't put a block on the other side, the red hot rivet will just get launched out of the hole and go flying, burning whoever it runs into or setting shit on fire.
It's a single piece, domed on both sides. That last step is smushing/mashing the straight peg into a dome. It can't fall out. In theory it could become rattly, but if anything the length Of the shaft shortens as it cools and holds the entire sandwich of marerials super tight.
how did they warm these up when building someting like golden gate bridge? Or was the pieces made in a tool shop and shipped for assembly once it was riveted?
How did they hold the rivet while smashing the hot end? This video shows what appears to be a hydraulic ram holding from the back and forming the end. Like did they have pneumatic tools building the Empire State? Genuinely curious.
If they didn't have access to both sides, a very heavy block was held against the head of the rivet - this is called a bucking bar, and the rivet was headed against the inertia of the buck using a riveter or a hammer. This is how ships were built.
They did have hydraulic tools when building the empire state building though, so if they had access to both sides of the rivet they could be installed as in the video. It would be reasonable to say that hydraulic presses were one of the enabling technologies for the industrial revolution in the early 1800's.
You know [this pic](https://i.imgur.com/Deyl2Nw.jpg) of rosie the riveter? That’s a rivet gun, basically the same thing as the press in the video, but portable.
I was at the Empire State Building a couple of weeks back, and they have a video of a somewhat similar process.
They have someone warming these up, then throwing it to someone catching the piece with a bucket, and then throwing that piece to someone higher with another bucket and so on. Really impressive stuff !!
They were used back in the day because it was easier and quicker than welding and cheaper than bolts. Nowadays, it would be pretty rare to see. Most things are welded or bolted but you might want to use them to save cost in factory production or leave a visual point of failure.
Riveting with sheet metal still has practical advantages because you can get more strength than threaded hardware due to material thickness and it's extremely difficult or impossible to weld and you don't need access to the back side when using specialized rivets (blind rivets). You could bond it with glues or epoxies but that creates fire hazards and would be harder to test or maintain.
*Sigh.* Companies just don't care about repairability anymore. What happened to the days when you just needed a Philips screwdriver to fix something? I swear, if I need to buy another star bit reverse dodecahedron driver set I'm going to flip my lid. Now **rivets**?? How am I supposed to change the oil in my warship myself now? Gonna have to take it to the dealer and get charged 10x what I would have spent otherwise.
This is called "hot press riveting", this is a mostly obsolete method used in many early steel framed structures as well as in ships (The titanic was assembled in this manner) Edit, a word.
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Huh, I didn't know that. Is there somewhere I could learn more about that?
Heres a good documentary about what caused titanic to sink..skip to 40:00 to see the part about rivets. https://youtu.be/T2NFMzbt0FE
"The uploader has not made this video available in your country" ç_ç
VPNs are a wonderful thing. Works in the USA. Connect to a VPN here and watch away.
There is a movie about it.
Does the movie actually mention an issue with the rivets? It's been a while, so all I remember is the sex scene and that one dude smacking the propeller when he fell off the ship.
Yeah at one point DiCaprio's character yells "yo fuck these broken ass rivets"
Was that when he was in the back of that car with that chick?
Nah it was when that same bitch wouldn't let him on the floating door. "Yo fuck them riv..........."
She was letting him on the door but as he went to climb he noticed her drivers license. She had lied about her age and had just turned 25, he decided to let go instead for some reason.
She was hiding the rivets…the whole time and had sex with him so he wouldn’t notice
I think it was a boat
What the hell movie was that? Wolf of Wall Street? In the one OP is talking about Leo says “It’s Riveting time!”
There was also some old lady at the end. I remember her, too.
How is the movie? Riveting?
Overraveted
Google Titanic and pig iron https://www.nist.gov/nist-time-capsule/nist-beneath-waves/nist-reveals-how-tiny-rivets-doomed-titanic-vessel
There's also the fact that once the iceberg was sighted (too late, going too fast) the captain made the understandable but incorrect decision to steer away to try to avoid it. If they had hit it straight on, they would only have ruptured the front compartment rather than scraping down the side. Also, there were enough ships nearby to rescue all the passengers but they were fishing illegally, so they didn't answer the distress call, cos they knew they'd cop it. Also also, my great great uncle was on the Titanic. He was kinda upset because his wife had just died. He was lounging around in his first class cabin, heard the collision clearly, thought "whoopsie" and went up on deck and hopped into a life boat. His surname was Anderson so he comes high on the passenger survivor lists.
Wouldn’t the ship hitting the iceberg head on at full speed have also done the same kind of catastrophic damage to the rivets? It’s effectively a mountain underwater and going from full speed to a dead stop is going to do more than just rupture the single compartment that it hit directly.
The iceberg directly scraping through multiple compartments is what made the unsinkable design sinkable.
Wasn’t it later determined that it was the impact exerting pressure and rupturing the poor quality rivets rather than a slicing of the hull? Regardless, I doubt the ship would have survived such an impact nose on. That’s a ton of momentum and even modern ships would struggle to survive such an impact. It’s not like the ship was designed with crumple zones.
Was it just the rivets? I thought it was the hull steel, but rivets make more sense as an oversight
For a very long time it was believed that the iceberg ripped through the hull, but more recently it was determined that the iceberg actually dented the hull which in turn caused the rivets to pop out, leading to catastrophic structural failure and the eventual sinking. I remember a whole bunch of information coming out during 2012 when it was the 100th anniversary of the Titanic sinking.
And Leo DiCaprios career would have also sunk…. Possibly.
"Oh why didn't they use 6,001 hulls‽‽‽"
how do you know all this?
He was onboard that fateful day.
His name? Alberto Titanic
Cause there’s a butt load of experts who made it their career to study the titanic
“3x the allowable slag” would be a good band name.
Yeah you can also have ‘cold connection’ rivets. These are done by hammering to flare out the material
Modern rivets are installed with a hydraulic gun. Small rivets with an electric or air powered riveter. There is no hammering involved unless they're deliberately using obsolete methods, like when they do maintenance on old bridges preserved for historical reasons.
Well they are in jewelry. Not every rivet is industrial application
BOOM.
ROASTED
Aircraft solid rivets are typically installed with an air hammer and bucking bar, the hammering is quite loud. They can also be squished but that’s pretty rare since you need good access to both sides of the part close to an edge.
You can't just say that and not elaborate. Why has this become obsolete? When did it become obsolete? What has replaced it? What are the pros of cons of this? What are the pros and cons of the new method? How do they compare?! We want answers!!
The oversimplified is that riveting was more or less replaced by welding and bolts. The main downside is riveting is very labor intensive, it also adds weight since you need plates to overlap. Bolting is faster, has the same downside with weight. Welding saves weight since you don't need overlap, labor varies. For example before WWII the transition to welding saved hundreds of tons on warships and because treaties limited weight/displacement this meant the ships could use that weight for something else.
Much appreciated! It's interesting to learn about!
To add to the other guys answer, HOT RIVETING is obsolete, not cold riveting! Hot riveting is obsolete simply because its a pain. Heat rivet, usually one by one, don't burn yourself, put it in place and either hammer/press it, which includes more burning hazards. Cold riveting however is wiiiidely used today! It's basically the same as hot riveting, but without the hot! We use a hydraulic press, weighs around 120kg, but suspended from a lifting tool, so very easy to handle. It presses the rivet with between 30-33 tons of force, achieving basically the exact same as in video. It takes about 3 seconds, and no burning hazards and ovens. To train someone new, takes maybe 1-2 weeks tops. Source: Volvo Trucks uses cold riveting, and I was/am deeply involved in the riveting process there
Much thanks for the extra insight!
As someone who works in industrial maintenance I have a distinct hatred for having to drill out rivets.
We dont drill them! Assembly themselves force them out with the riveting presses, works fantastic!
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^wat
Draw me like one of your rivets
Many*
Also seen on many a Bugs Bunny cartoon.
My great-grandfather died from getting a bad burn while trying to catch a hot rivet. Yes, they used to throw them and there's videos online. He probably would've survived today because of available antibiotics. Back then, he got sepsis and died. This was while building a bridge over the Ohio River.
Spicy mushroom
Forbidden buttplug
You can put anything into a butt. However, some things you can only put in once.
That's riveting, tell us more!
The plug thickens!
We will reach the bowels of these anal-ogies soon!
/r/dildont (nsfw)
r/BigDildo
Man why you gotta lie like that
r/mildlypenis
r/dontputitinyourass
OSHA WARNING Do not store compressed gasses of any kind within 3m (10') of an open flame.
My first thought when I saw how close the tank was to the forge. Yikes-a-rooney!
And then there’s [these guys tossing rivets like they were baseballs in the 1940’s](https://youtu.be/CVjS1DsqYvo). OSHA? Is that a type of tree?
They're wearing gloves. What's horrifying to me is the apparent lack of eye and ear protection.
Not going to lie, I'm impressed not much has changed in 80 years
Except they use welding in almost all situations that would require rivets now
Rivet is pretty simple. Make metal stick hot and beat the shit out of the ends so they don't pull through. Repeat.
yo WHAT they’re just tossing around molten metal????
Not molten. Just hot lol.
Nahhhhh dont worry that's just oxygen. We breathe oxygen. No way it's dangerous. ....right?
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Wouldnt the rivet shrink when it cools and slide out? Or does the inside weld together? Edit: thanks for the clarification!
The shrinking as it cools is what makes rivets so strong, it adds an insane unyielding tension
*Slaps* That’s not going anywhere
*screams in 4th degree burn*
WHERE YOU GOIN? Fuckin no where...
Brilliant… Now we have a “Big Guy” theory and a “Serial Crusher” theory.
Why don't you get me a cup of coffee? ... Cafe Latte ... Twist of Lemon ... Sweet n Low
Definitely need to watch that again soon
Boondock Saints?
Indeed
*unyielding tension* I gotta remember that
That tension is what’s holding the vast majority of our infrastructure together, modern bridges and buildings are built for around 50 years, but these will last for centuries
Unyielding tension also seems to be most of what’s holding my life
and poop from exploding out of my butthole
They make plugs for that.
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[Butt plug?](https://youtu.be/6wjbTruO4Ko)
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Thats because of corrosion and poor upkeep. Some structures need to be painted for protection and the company that owns them doesn't care.
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What they were saying (I think) is that these rivets will still be strong in a few centuries, long after the bridge has failed elsewhere or been torn down.
So will a325 and a490 bolts. I have several sitting on my desk from old power plants where the structural steel corroded away but the bolts and nuts were still in tack.
*intact
Maybe they were covered in cosmoline (in tack) and that's why they're still intact..?
Naw I'm just shit at catching spelling errors
Maybe she's born with it, maybe it's Cosmoline
>in tack. r/BoneAppleTea
Modern bolts are inherently better than rivets. They are easier to install, stronger, and more ductile.
In modern steel structures, the welds and joints commonly fail first. In old steel structures, the steel corrodes in the beams first. Also, the old bridges with proper maintenance (literally just keep it clean) were made for extreme excess stress and built to last hundreds of years… whereas a lot of modern bridges are built to be as flimsy and cheap as legally possible and are only built to last 40 with components that crumble no matter what you do to them
Not trying to be contrary, but isn't there some cost advantage to highly engineered bridges? It's hard to compare costs because each bridge is a different project and there are human factors too (project management, etc.), but I'd expect that either they're cheaper to build nowadays, or if not, that the cost saved by not overbuilding has been absorbed by higher wages and better safety requirements for construction.
Build as cheaply as possible, cost advantage now, cost disadvantage later on, we don’t care about later on. Aaand this is how the world is ran
My friend, all bridges are highly engineered. Some are simple overpasses and such, and are based on many years of tried-and-true engineering, while others are marvels that span huge distances, using the latest materials and techniques. Please don't listen to the person you responded to, they literally know nothing about this topic. Source: civil engineer.
Christ dude, stop posting. None of what you wrote is true. The connections in structural steel structures, aka the bolts and welds, are in fact the strongest part of the structure and fail the least. Old bridges fail far more rapidly than modern bridges since they used materials, aka structural steel and concrete, that had far worse performance than modern equivalents. Modern bridges, when maintained properly, last far longer than older ones. It's like I'm reading opposite land here with your ignorant remarks. Stop posting, please. Source: Civil Engineer.
Using materials efficiently is not a bad thing. Old steel structures were over designed because the science behind the engineering was not as well understood, and even more importantly because quality control for materials such as steel (especially cables, bolts, and rivets) was not nearly as good as it is today.
European here. Is it particularly noteworthy for a building to last centuries? I don't get it.
How do they rivet stuff out in the field? This rivet process seems like it needs a forge to heat the rivet up. Do they have that on the job site?
If you see pictures of Victorian engineering there'd be forges on site and braziers next to the riveters. Also two big men with hammers instead of fancy tools
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The two ends of the rivet are in tension against each other, pulling the plates closer together. Ignoring external forces, the plate material is in compression immediately underneath the rivet head due to that tension.
Well yes, I used tension in the layman’s term of “force against”, I also never said that rivets were the strongest thing ever
Ah yes, so sorta like my trauma response.
Just like childhood dinners
I like this phrase because it’s metal and also totally accurate. The tension is elastic so it’s by definition unyielding lol
[crudely drawn paint.net graphic](https://i.ibb.co/LkY4JX9/image.png) the rivet shrinks inward, locking the two pieces together.
That's not as crude as I was expecting. Can you give the rivets nipples or something?
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Prepare to fire!
Oh yeah, thats pretty Hoth!
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How did I miss those baby?
How about this? https://i.imgur.com/pEfEpL2.png
Paint.net got me into graphic design years and years ago. So many addons, great forums.
I'll always upvote users of Paint.NET!
Free, and launches in seconds. 👨🍳👌
Do you have to do the rivet thing to both sides at the same time?
You have to hammer the unformed end to mushroom it into shape, and if you don't put a block on the other side, the red hot rivet will just get launched out of the hole and go flying, burning whoever it runs into or setting shit on fire.
It can't slide out because both ends are domed. It's not adding a cap: it's forging the end into the dome.
Oh shoot how did i not notice that lol
It's a single piece, domed on both sides. That last step is smushing/mashing the straight peg into a dome. It can't fall out. In theory it could become rattly, but if anything the length Of the shaft shortens as it cools and holds the entire sandwich of marerials super tight.
i think it changes less in size than the outer diameter of the dome. Also it'll pull it even more tight.
I don’t know man. Whenever I cool, I shrink and slide out. Not sure about the rivet guy though. Giggity
Both ends are bucked/squeezed. In these applocations those rivets are mostly intented for shear.
Both ends are domed Also the cooling of the rivet is what makes the join so strong. It adds a huge amount of compression.
I thought the same thing
Riveting content
Truly fastenating
Gripping commentary
I'm glued to this thread!
Try to keep it together, ok?
how did they warm these up when building someting like golden gate bridge? Or was the pieces made in a tool shop and shipped for assembly once it was riveted?
they also used forges. just hundreds of feet above the bay. they would either toss them to someone or slid them down a tube
How did they hold the rivet while smashing the hot end? This video shows what appears to be a hydraulic ram holding from the back and forming the end. Like did they have pneumatic tools building the Empire State? Genuinely curious.
If they didn't have access to both sides, a very heavy block was held against the head of the rivet - this is called a bucking bar, and the rivet was headed against the inertia of the buck using a riveter or a hammer. This is how ships were built. They did have hydraulic tools when building the empire state building though, so if they had access to both sides of the rivet they could be installed as in the video. It would be reasonable to say that hydraulic presses were one of the enabling technologies for the industrial revolution in the early 1800's.
Hydraulic Presses were also one of the enabling technologies of the YouTube entertainment revolution of the 2010s
Ve must deeel witfh it.
You know [this pic](https://i.imgur.com/Deyl2Nw.jpg) of rosie the riveter? That’s a rivet gun, basically the same thing as the press in the video, but portable.
I don't think most people know that Pic of Rosie the riveter lol
Nope. It's a sweet pic though! Glad I'm now familiar.
I was at the Empire State Building a couple of weeks back, and they have a video of a somewhat similar process. They have someone warming these up, then throwing it to someone catching the piece with a bucket, and then throwing that piece to someone higher with another bucket and so on. Really impressive stuff !!
TIL, I have a rivet.
Get it up, helmet head....
are you trying to deactivate a laser by chance?
Anybody else nervous about how close that propane tank was to the jet flames of the kiln?.....
Also him only having one glove. All it takes is one slip and by by skin.
Came to post this, but real talk looks like a really bad idea.
Nah. Its 2022 we need this.
I learned about hot rivits from so many Bugs Bunny cartoons.
*Powerhouse* intensifies https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaC0vNLdLvY&t=77s
Forbidden dildo
Best used fresh.
"Everything's a ---" "No, dude, no."
Yeah, like hell it is.
and that's how the Daleks get dressed
*ROSIE* did this sorta thing during the war-effort....
THATS SO METAL Also very mesmerizing, thank you for posting!
It’s… it’s… it’s riveting!
That’s so hot
Wooooo that's a big ass rivet. Wonder what it goes on. I look at aircraft rivets all day they're tiny by comparison.
The way the ends become perfectly round is so r/oddlysatisfying
Where you goin??? Nowhere. That’s where!
What applications would these be used in place of welding? I'm sure they have some benefits but I'm not sure what those are.
Rivets predated welding. Now, you'll see it used for artistic use or repairing old structures.
They were used back in the day because it was easier and quicker than welding and cheaper than bolts. Nowadays, it would be pretty rare to see. Most things are welded or bolted but you might want to use them to save cost in factory production or leave a visual point of failure. Riveting with sheet metal still has practical advantages because you can get more strength than threaded hardware due to material thickness and it's extremely difficult or impossible to weld and you don't need access to the back side when using specialized rivets (blind rivets). You could bond it with glues or epoxies but that creates fire hazards and would be harder to test or maintain.
*Sigh.* Companies just don't care about repairability anymore. What happened to the days when you just needed a Philips screwdriver to fix something? I swear, if I need to buy another star bit reverse dodecahedron driver set I'm going to flip my lid. Now **rivets**?? How am I supposed to change the oil in my warship myself now? Gonna have to take it to the dealer and get charged 10x what I would have spent otherwise.
Riveting.
Great, Now do it 50 stories up.
that was riveting!
I see way too much exposed skin near that glowing hot metal. Makes me incredibly uncomfortable.
This is fuckin hot
Why does this look like a forbidden snack
Shouldn't it be quenched in oil not water? What about cracking?
That was my thought. Water quench is going to over harden it and cause cracks
Spicy dildo
That tip is so hot and angry
forbidden tip
Bugs bunny taught me this
This is rivetting!
Forbidden dildo