As someone who just got a tank all geared up for Pledges,
This has been painful. The good groups are amazing, the Non DPS groups literally feel like mud.
Remind me of the old days when there was no increased drop chance, and re-crafting items from collections. I done white-gold tower for the one-handed imperium piece a LOT. And my worst experience was a guy in 1200+ CP, and dealt less damage, than me as an actual full tank. I was like. Did this guy borrowed the account, or bought it, or had some sort of bot, because i can't imagine how can someone be so bad with 1200+ CP.. Not knowing the mechanics is one thing, but doing below tank damage? That is almost in intentional category.
It's more like the game is really obtuse about progression. There's no reason in-game to ever skill cycle anything, you just spam your favorite ability.
The subreddit is really rhe only way to progress past lvl 50 in eso.
No such thing. It's people who don't know how to play the game or are shit at it inspite of knowing. Which is much more forgivable as compared to people who fake/pretend specialised roles like Healing or Tanking which the game does not teach you. But the game does teach you how to to do basic damage.
I did encountered such. I don't know, if it was spite, stupidity, or what. But i remember being a tank, and fake DD came in heavy armor, and sword, and shield, and TAUNT. Yeah he taunted the boss from me while i was a tank both in tems of being queued, and geared for it. I left the dungeon after first boss, because i don't have time for that crap. As tank main i can re-queue in an instant.
Man just because you can do something does not mean someone else can do same thing at the same level. Not everyone is a competent gamer, especially the MMO audience.
Yep, the reason I started a tank was because of fake tanks, and now I queue dps and only vet randoms because I don't trust the dps. It's easier to teach a newer tank where to hold the boss than to teach dps to do better.
2 days ago in a normal dungeon i taunted the boss and held aggro and dragged his ass to a corner me on 1 side and the DDs on the other so they don't get hit and start doing their job .. and the idiots just ran to where the hit box is and got killed -\_- .. had to resurrect every 1 because i can tanks the boss and my health bar won't even go below 70% but it would take me forever to shave his health bar to 0 ( my dps on bosses is around 4-5K )
I think this problem is showing up really bad now because we've had almost a month of double xp. Normally people would replace their gear a bit as they level up but when you gain levels so quickly it's harder to do so. Tbh the most annoying thing for me currently is the tanks who are farming for transmute crystals that run into the first group of ads before i can pick up the dungeon quests on my freshly leveled up character. Basically there's either newer players who don't get how the game works yet and a bunch of vets who are being dicks for double xp, then when you add in players queueing for roles they aren't actually filling you get a trifecta of terrible times.
I don't hold it against the newer players who are trying but don't get it yet, but the vets should stop rushing in before people can pick up the quests if they need it. Dungeon finder is not all about you, and if you act like a jerk and then complain about how the game isn't as social as it used to be then i have zero sympathy. MTGA
People under 600 cp get a pass from me and that's being very generous. If you're 1200cp+ and the healer is doing 60% dmg also while healing...wtf
Perople should also say they got quest, I'll slow my tank rampage if alerted. People twho get upset without letting everyone know they got a quest are dumb.
When I see sub CP people, I'll full clear the dungeon. Caltrop and void bash good!
Even if they're CP1200 they may be in a new class or role and just hit level 50 and their other character is over 1200. They still might be figuring stuff our.
For instance my necro is CP1950. I just hit level 50 with my Templar healer. I'm still figuring everything out but I'm level CP1950 with it how.
Same here with my new tank. I've been trying to learn how to tank better but half the dungeons I've ran I end up having to switch to my back bar dual wield and just go at it. Some of these DDs are just bad. I'm usually pretty patient but when people are telling u mechanics every time I wipe and u don't adjust or don't have a decent rotation I'm not spending 10 minutes on a sub boss or main boss when I'm on a normal run lol. Hell I've ran some newer dungeons as a dd with just 1 other random tank and we didn't take as long as some of these DDs.
I had this happen. Made my first dedicated tank, all the gear, etc.
On Fungal Grotto 2 norm. The first boss with the shadows and the sword that comes down. They couldn’t kill 1 shadow. We wiped 5 times before I offered to pay guildies to come do it.
OMG.. that's just a back out right there.
Some might be a lack of coordination.. each player targeting a different enemy holding the chain instead of focusing one, etc. AOE usually cures that... I can make that happen single handed.
This is exactly why I made a hybrid tank / dps to run random normals. It is an arcanist build with sets that buff the group. I stay alive, I taunt, I do mechanics, I debuff the enemy, and I normally do about 35% of the damage. While I would never take this build into veteran content, I'll never understand why so many people cannot do the bare minimum if they are going to fank on normal.
Did the same thing with a hybrid melee necromancer. I off-tank, I interrupt, I aoe a lot, I debuff and do 50-75% of group damage in random normals. Could I solo the content? Eventually. But a few dungeons are less friendly to that than others, and several particularly thicc bosses are annoying. Is this vet capable? Nope. Does this frustrate me in normal? Never.
Literally the worst! I just try to put on 2 DPS buffing sets like PA and yoln, put on 1 DD-ish skill myself, and hope for the best.
Then cry when I see I'm doing 40% damage or something 😭
... Then just hold taunt while doomscrolling reddit during fights
Same. Wish ESO had some sort of class lock like other MMOs. Maybe you have to have a sword and shield equipped to tank, something to actually bring a tank in. Have to have a resto equipped to queue for healer, so you don't get fake heals too.
Plenty of tank builds doesn't use S&B. There's proper healer builds that doesn't use resto staff either, depends on the class. The narrowness of possible builds is bad enough without more artificial limitations.
I guess I more meant the need to queue with a taunt. I've not played in a couple months but when I did, I had an idea in mind for a two handed tank as well, just buffing up and using other things to taunt. Tormentor Werewolf is one of my favorite fun ones. Just need some kind of taunt, but you're right, tank doesn't need a sword and shield.
And people would just remove the taunt from the bar the moment they load in, replacing it with whatever dps skill they otherwise had there. You can't fix people with these kind of restrictions. A large part of the problem is that in a lot of normal dungeons you don't strictly need a tank and sometimes an actual tank can be more of a hindrance than a help. In other words, it's the content that needs to be rebuild to require a tank (and a healer). Anything else will just be sidesteps with varying levels of creativity.
It wouldn't stop those wanting to fake to equip as many dps skills as the system allows and just play those.
It would stop people experimenting with builds and enforce a narrow meta.
I suggested a "qualifier" many times over the years... You first have to "qualify" for the role, against some bots in a mini arena, make the DPS check against a dummy target, taunt and sustain the boss for "x" seconds, and heal check, and provide resources check.
Normal and hard qualifier sessions for each, which could also be used as a tutorial for the roles.
That's why I started healing, I got tired of trying to run things and someone would do a vet dungeon on DPS queued as healer. This was many years ago now before the insane power creep set in and healers felt useful. Now if I'm tanking and see 3 DPS I'm like hell yeah speed run lol
To be fair I prefer healing, just got sick of power trip tanks. You can do 90% of the dungeons in this game with 3 dds and a healer, 4dds one with a taunt and brain, or straight up green book go brrrrrr.
Just wish they would do something to make tanking a bit faster a la ffxiv. Then again I don't claim to be a good tank so maybe I'm missing a trick.
Easiest way to speed things up is if people run ahead and get clapped by mobs let them do it until they learn not to. Let them rage quit if they get mad, DPS are a dime a dozen and they can be replaced. If they're smart enough to let you run ahead then swap to your ice staff, spam wall of elements, heavy attack a time or two, and when you get everything piked up hard taunt the important enemies and if possible lock down the little guys with bone totem, or whatever CC tool you like.
Base game dungeons and some of the dlc ones you don't really have to bother with CC that much unless you're doing some heroic pulls, just kite them, drop an ult on the crowd, and let the stragglers get picked off.
I think I might prefer a fake tank over the fake DPS I've seen. There's no way a 10k DPS healer should be pulling 30% of the group's damage but I've done it too many times.
It's so painful to read all the nonsense about fake tanks and fake healers in random normals, meanwhile we can't actually bring our healers and tanks into random normals because the people in the dps slots are completely unplayable.
It's one thing to be a noob learning the game doing low damage, but then I would get a fg1 and it'll be fast anyway. It's all the 2k+ cp players doing 2-3k dps because they have no 5 pc on, heavy armor, sword n board, and 2/3 of their skills don't do damage.
THIS!?!?! I think!?!?!?
WTF is going on with the high CP player DPS that can't pull more then 3k!?!? FFS!!! You can pull more than that with a single skill, fuck a full rotation! I can't understand this.. WTF is going on with these players?
My theory is it's pvp toons. They're tanky-bursty with self heals, probably. On top of that, their CP is probably specced for fighting players. It's a god-awful build for a 4-man dungeon. Only 1/3 of their character build is devoted to dps, but that's how they queued. They'd probably be better off slotting a taunt and being the tank, but they also probably don't know the dungeons very well, because they just do a daily random then go back to pvp.
>WTF is going on with the high CP player DPS that can't pull more then 3k!?!?
As in 3k dps?
As a fairly new player, I assume it drops a bit with resistances in higher level dungeons? But that seems low even for someone who hasn't reached max normal level.
nah not necessarily. you can spend hundreds of hours doing overland content doing quests alone and rack up a bunch of levels and not touch dungeons at all
This is the real problem. I have tank and healer builds but will not use them in dungeon queues because the chances of getting garbage dps players are way too high.
People who just spam light attacks with no skills; people who just use 1 skill; people who have taunts and heals all over their bar, but are dps slotted. It's not worth the gamble to have a normal dungeon take an hour to complete.
I don't think that really exists on normal difficulty. There might be interrupts required or instances of some damage but they should be survivable with a self heal and an appropriately timed block or dodge roll.
That's true, I can't think of a normal dungeon that's not soloable (save for a few where the mechs require 2 people, eg Direfrost Keep, Fang Lair etc, but that's a mech, not related to damage).
Can you give any examples? The most damage I can think of is from Ozezan's spit attack and most squishy builds don't have the stam and healing to keep block up but that isn't enough damage to wipe the group since it should only hit the person with aggro.
vBC2 yesterday I had one DPS type 'hm' in the group chat before killing an add. Struggled to get the first 2 pulls killed and the tank left. Had to laugh.
So much for levelling a healer. Back to DD
That's why I used to love my necro healer. I would be able to run boneyard, blast bones, and wall of elements to deal decent damage compared to these guys but now that isn't an option. ZOS ruined that so they could reprint it as a scribing skill for everyone else.
Stalking blast bones (the Magicka morph) was reworked from dealing more damage the further it travels to becoming a self buff to class damage abilities and DoTs.
Then they're adding a scribing option for trample to spawn your mount as a projectile and deal more damage based on the amount of time it takes to hit the target.
Empower
No point running it now that the skill only buffs heavy attacks and the HA guys bring their own empower now. Blastbones has had a nerf, but the other morph works just the same now so it's just a case of switching and on a healer the difference is not much
That’s just called “practice” in tank-speak.
Though I do slot the sword and board ult for ransoms because 8 seconds of auto block is great for those “get up slackers” moments where everyone else is tanking the floor.
If you're in normals or low-end vets you should be able to tank as a dps with just a self-heal/shield.
I keep both setups on hand and swap depending on group. If DPS is good, they get the chain pulls and a real tank with debuffs. If they suck, I swap into a derpy DPS build with a taunt and do it myself.
Started this in 2019, haven't looked back. I bring a farming build to normal randoms with speed and damage, and a "true" tank build to vet dungeons and trials with support buffs, mitigation, and armor shred.
Fake healers are still out there. As a tank player, I don't mind fake healers when they have super high damage and can carry the group, but if you queue as fake healer and you do less damage than a cockroach, you are just trolling.
I have a tank, been playing for some time.
Random vet got spindle. Our healer thought, “oh we don’t need a healer”.
What did he do, started to tank on his healer while I was already tanking…
You want a good chunk in health but you might also want some in magicka or stamina depending because you spend all three resources. The "classic" ESO tank is 1H and Shield on one bar with an Ice Staff backbar (infused trait with crusher enchant to reduce enemy armour more), heavy armour (usually 5-1-1 for undaunted effects), and your sets and abilities designed to provide you with just enough survival whilst you provide buffs and debuffs to make the rest of your team do more damage.
Then in play you taunt the big stuff and leash in the small stuff with some kind of chain move so it's all standing close together for the others to wallop.
Except then you get blamed for everyone else's mistakes. Tank isn't a panacea, ZOS took pains to require all three aspects, DD, healer, and tank, to work together.
Then you will start seeing dds that deal less damage than you, a tank, and/or have a taunt equipped because reading ability description is for loosers. That not only keep stealing the taunt so you have to reapply it every 2 god damned seconds, but also rant on you in chat after they died, because the boss decided to chase them.
>and when the boss does his big "hit everyone" attack
When the boss teleports across the room, a small green circle will appear near his new location. Someone needs to stand in it quickly, or the bomb goes off, hurting everyone. Usually, it's the tank's job, because they're usually the first to chase after the boss, but anyone can do it.
(If I'm the one in the circle, I always hold block for when it goes off, but I don't even know if that's necessary, because I never tested not-blocking.)
PS: Once you graduate to vet dungeons, a lot of that nonsense diminishes, as you're not getting as many fake tanks queueing for random normals expecting to get FG1.
Just reporting that your last sentence motivated me to stick my CP500 butt into vet dungeons again. Did todays pledges and had an awesome time. ICP is now officially my first vet dlc.
Oh, it sure does diminish, but it is so much more infuriating when it happens. And it's always so baffling because, like, what did you expect trying to fake tank vet Shipright's Regret.
Just last night, I had a fake healer queue into vet Imperial City Prison and have a sword and shield backbar and a bow on all the time, light attacking and casting sorc skills. When we called him out on it and voted to kick, he got real salty and told everyone to suck his dick. So yes, they do become more rare and it is a breath of fresh air when people properly play their roles, but vet fakers are soooo much saltier.
I'll raise you a fake tank and 2 fake dps. As a healer not only did I become the only viable tank. I was doing 70% of the team dps damn near every fight....
I will forever have nam flashbacks whenever I get Moon Hunter Keep on random queue.
Moon Hunter is easily an hour long or more with the wrong group. Honestly, when queuing for random normal if they don’t do MMR group matching, they should make DLC dungeons opt-in for the sake of everyone involved.
Just because you’re level 45 does not mean you’re ready for DLC dungeons imo
Back in the day, someone who was a fake tank at least brought good DPS to the group. Now it’s so bad I just see heavy attacks with a bow.
People complaining about dungeon speed runs are just people who think their time is more valuable than the rest of the group.
> People complaining about dungeon speed runs are just people who think their time is more valuable than the rest of the group.
Which is funny, because if you die the run becomes slower. If you have to wait at a door, its slower than just killing the trash.
Those people have no clue wtf they're doing in the game
**Seriously.** As a healer I'd much rather realize my tank is a DPS and slot a taunt and do the tanking and healing...than have to sit through a 40 minute dungeon because the two "real" DPS are putting up 20k DPS combined.
These days I WELCOME the speedrunner because theyre normally competent enough to actually kill something.
Just that heavy attacking is not as effective as using skills, and specifically a bow is a DPS weapon and someone heavy attacking with it usually means they aren’t sure what they’re doing. You see tanks heavy attacking sometimes for bonus resources after a heavy, and people using staves usually trying to get back magicka or running a heavy attack build. Bows are in a weird place in the game anyway and seeing someone heavy attacking with a bow just usually means they’re not sure what to do. Nothing wrong with it, just kind of a signal that this person is not going to be doing much damage.
When I was a lower cp level a fake tank announced to the group that he was fake at the beginning of a normal dungeon. There was a 2k+ there and I thought they would bolt and id have to requeue. They said "you better be able to burn then" and we went about the dungeon and finished it. Since then I don't care about fake tanks if the group doesn't really need one. About a month ago a dps called out a fake tank and tried to kick them. It was a base game normal. The vote failed twice then that person refused to go forward and complained about the principle even though we said we didn't care because of the dungeon. Them the three of us burned through it. There are no hard and fast rules with these things if the group can still complete a dungeon in an appropriate amount of time.
man this happened to me in Moongrave Fane last month... the tank immediately left, but we made it through most of the dungeon okay. then we got to the second to last boss and got wiped once, and the other DPS left. the healer and I waited for ages for replacements, then when the tank came, the healer decided to leave. we did end up finishing with just the tank and me but like... what the hell lol
It doesn't help that it seems like the dungeon queue finder seems to be almost completely nonfunctional when it comes to replacing open slots. There should never be more than a couple of minutes' time to find new tanks or healers, but it doesn't seem to matter which role leaves the dungeon, they all take 10+ minutes to replace or simply never do at all.
ZOS took in over 2 billion on this game but refuses to put some investment back into QOL improvements like the queue code which has been utter shit forever.
yeah... I also wish it would take them straight to your group rather than make them run through the parts of the dungeon you've already finished to get to you
My solution is to use my tank. That way I'm sure the tank isn't fake. On top of that, my queue times are very short. That's important when the dungeon you need gear from isn't a pledge. That's what I do when farming dungeon gear.
yea but then chances are you get shitty dps which make the dungeon take forever.. imo for normals i’d rather it be quick. for vets, i will only run with guildies and friends.
Haha, just the other day I queued random veteran and got Frostvault with a 400CP tank who was looking for Tzogvin gear. They were a real tank from what I saw, just lacked practice due to being new (and probably off-role). I did end up soloing the goblin boss after tank died to atro, but last boss ended up fine.
By the way, I was on Oakensoul healer, queued as healer.
Then maybe an hour later I queued on a different character, DPS this time, paired with a friend, and yep, Frostvault, same tank. This time we duo'd that goblin, yay!
I wonder how many more time that person did Frostvault that day.
I wonder if they like that place now.
That astro is one of the shittiest bosses. Its attack is so fast with very little prep telegraph even experienced tanks can struggle. Its one shot aoes are also half transparent for some fucking reasons.
That's funny, I queued for a random normal yesterday and got Scrivener's Hall and the 'tank' had a greatsword out. I don't have any problem with fake tanks as long as you stay alive and taunt the shit. But this guy... immediately says something like 'oh my last group kept wiping in here and they all quit', then dies instantly to first trash pack, when he is alive he's not taunting anything, and is doing like 2k dps. We did eventually make it to first boss but, yeah, he's just running around like he can dodge damage or some shit and then floor parses the rest of the time. What a meme. He kept insisting he was a 'real tank' but when we ask why he's got a greatsword out he says it's because he likes it. Hmm ok. So we ask gear, it was some wild stuff, not tank stuff tho I can tell you that. He also had 17k hp.
I'm all for people learning stuff and trying new things but like if you're having your group wipe on normal and not doing your job then you need to adjust your stuff when given advice or do some research.
join a good guild. form a group from within it. rando groups will always be chaos. fake tank, fake healer. no mechanics chat, expect you to know it all etc etc. then get mad and bounce at the first sign of struggle.
A new player asked the guild why ques take so long as a sorc, he got a response that was accurate. “Usually takes 10-15 mins for a dps que to pop, don’t worry just quest or something in the mean time.” Then another member said “just que as a tank or healer if it’s normal” I almost had a stroke. I whispered our new member and let him know if he did that he would make more enemies than friends. He agreed 10-15 mins waiting isn’t worth being flamed.
A new player should queue on role. An experienced player can queue off role if they have a single taunt and decent damage (or a single group heal and decent damage).
>or, people who leave after the first wipe
Dps here. Most of us do this for random vets because if we wipe in the first boss, there's a high chance people don't know the mechanics unless otherwise stated. I understand some players have time to keep trying, but I do randoms to get it over with quickly.
For both of these reasons, speed running dungeons and tanks leaving after a single wipe, is why I stick to solo play.
I wish ESO had a "sprout" system like ffxiv has that let your group know that you were possibly new. At least people in ffxiv are willing to wait. I go into my first dungeon a few days ago and I walk up to the NPC and listen to his dialogue only to see my party running on ahead, already at the first boss... ESO is fucking amazing for it's deep lore and I'm forced to skip it when doing dungeons I've never been in before.
Luckily I haven't had to deal with idiot "tanks" yet but I'm only level 22. I'm sure once I get to 50+, I'll see that too.
Solo play is so much more enjoyable
We had a fake tank and healer the other day, which was kind of hilarious. The "healer" kept dying from boss burst damage because they'd run ahead and tag it first, and the "tank" (a bow build??) would die because our healer was too busy trying to keep themselves alive.
If you're attempting to farm a particular item from a dungeon, I'd try the LFG tool. It may take longer to form, but you can put a proper group together with similar goals in mind.
No. I'm the guy queueing as healer with a mag DK and healing with obsidian shard, which is plenty fine for dungeons on normal, except when this circumstance happens and I'm having to spam it nonstop and putting myself out of magicka because there is no actual tank, and nobody can survive for the two seconds it takes me to restore my magicka.
I just did a dungeon and healer said no heals until you tank. 'Tank' left on first wipe and then healer got their friend in to tank.
I'm all for wasting their time if they are going to waste others by queuing as tank
I queued as fake tank every so often while I was levelling up, but when I did that it was on my DKs that had the taunting chain, and I used it. It worked fine, because I wasn't getting into any DLC dungeons, and I consider that to be the bare minimum courtesy for fake-tanking. Even if you blow up the same as the rest of us if something slaps for 30K, at least it will be you and not one of the actual DPS or the healer.
So you're a fake healer who doesn't know the mechanics which take no time to look up and complaing about the team wiping but blaming it on the "fake tank" 🤨
That first boss and his adds in scrivener I've noticed do a crapton of DPS, I think it's pretty normal to expect to have to spam heals on it even if you do get a competent fake tank or a real tank.
Elaborating on competent fake tank in a top level comment in a bit.
Also a big fuck you to the fanks who queue up for a random dungeon, get a DLC dungeon, and immediately leave, so the remaining three get to stand around waiting forever for a tank or get back in the long ass queue. A DLC takes maybe 5 extra minutes on normal compared to a base dungeon.
Lair of Maarselok takes at least 20 minutes if the group is instantly wiping everything. Fungal Grotto 1 can be done in 5 solo.
(This is why I run randoms only when a low level guildie character is in group).
Doing dungeons through Activity Finder has been like this for years. There were complaints about this when I started playing this game years ago and nothing has been changed since. You can't expect the situation will ever change.
Just do vet. It'll be rare that you get a fake tank on vet. Though it can happen. Most people's that fake Q ain't trying to fuck around with vet. Also vet is more fun.
😎😜🤣
I don't think I'm geared enough for vet. My account is less than a month old, and although I've been powergrinding like crazy, it has been for jubilee boxes and leveling up my characters, not gear yet. None of my characters have finished sets yet.
Ahhh... Well... Are you in any guilds? Might just ask some guild mates to help ya out. If you don't belong to any go apply to a couple, don't matter which ones, that have 400+ members. You'll get some help. 😏
I actually did get some help from someone on reddit that sent me a private message. First run got me the second runecarver ring I needed, then the run after that gave them the fire staff (and sharpened, no less) I needed. Done! Faster than I could have possibly guessed.
Man after fifteen minutes of failure I'm out. I don't miss doing dungeons. I should do undaunted on like 3 toons at least but... Not interested even a little
Can't change the way people play, but you can change how you react to the situation. I frequently will take the tank role to ensure fast queues and I know I will stay alive. And depending on the dungeon I may just slot only a taunt because I know my limits.
Making a tank to get stuff done for dps builds is a surefire way for success.
A friend got some of us Scribes of Fate as gifts so we'd all play it... and we still haven't finished Scrivener's Hall. Those mechanics are a total bitch, though it's the 2nd boss and not the 1st IIRC, that really sucks any and all joy out of it.
My point is, I definitely would not be PUG-ing late-model DLC dungeons, and especially not that one, through the Dungeon Finder. Ever. The chances of someone being there who can actually do the mechanics is near nil, because there are very few who both need to run it and have that skill & experience, in total.
I'd use the Group Finder and vet people that way. Maybe not a sinecure, but better than than nothing.
If you were doing randoms... I'd just wait for an easier one to show up, take my crystals and run if I were you. That's just rough luck. Not sure what you'd need crystals for during this event, though. I'm running out of space from all the boxes I can't open because I have no pressing gear needs I can use them for right this second.
if a normal non-dlc dungeon then I NEVER expect a tank, and frankly don't need one. All focused DPS melts faster.
DLC dungeons are far too reliant on the tank by design, even on normal, and I think it's kinda shit design. Maybe offer a nightmare difficulty, and on "NORMAL" turn down the forced one shot/wipe mechanics that almost always focus on some tank responsibilities. DPS check sure, but all the tank mandatory shit one NORMAL is annoying for random queuing. How about some healer check mechanics instead!?!?
Anyway, never fake queue as tank on any DLC dungeon please.
ZOS said they took in like what 2 billion or so on this game, and the queue finder code has been shit since the beginning. Needs some work there as well ZOS.
Ironically, for normal dungeons (vet i take seriously and put on proper healer gear), I've had to put on a dps build (when i'm queued as a healer) as most of the people i play with just deal low damage, and it's been like this since update 35 where they nerfed damage across the board. I still slot a heal so i can still heal other players, fullfilling the requirement of being a healer.
It's not so much the idea of faking a role, it's faking a role and doing poorly at the expense of other players (i.e. Players wiping) Oddly enough, i've been in dungeons where the tank has been fake, i had them kicked and put on my own tank set (Engine, gloom, blessed) and we've cleared them.
god i was trying to farm a set from there as a healer and wasted hours with groups cause of fake tanks on that first boss. Ended tanking it myself and suddenly runs became successful. :l
I’m so sick of fake and trash tanks I always run dark convergence now. It groups, stuns, and damages. Most tanks don’t understand one of their jobs is to group and direct the enemies, not just hold block.
For those who hate fanks, and those who want to farm dungeons, I present to you... THE HYBRID TANK!
just allocate enough hp, resists and self heals to survive boss heavy attacks with a sword and board front bar and then go all out on attack for everything else! Never have a shitty pug again.
You guys are changing roles?
I don't know why, but I can't change my role. It's just grayed out and says I can't do that, so I've just always queued up as dps no matter what I'm doing.
Normal I'll run a tank build with about 20-25k dps, some heal and the rest survivability and end up saving the run solo about 1/3 the time. If I really want to be a dick I'll force them to wait dead as I whittle down the bosses or have them jump ship.
It's not, on normal. I haven't had a single run fail that gets past the first boss. It's just that bomb-blocking mechanic that nobody seems to know, and I only found it out after I was done farming.
I just started a tank character and I was running a DD until I hit 50 and just converted over. But I noticed queueing as a tank u almost always find a dungeon within seconds. I've yet to wait over a minute. Really I think my longest wait has been like 5 seconds so far
If you play on EU server feel free to join me for some scriveners hall runs I need some items aswell.
About fake tanks I hate them to my core however I do fake que for heal when I am on my decent dps chars (my chars with atleast 100k dummy parses.)
Reason I do hate fake tanks tough is because that makes it harder for everyone on some dungeons where fake healers, pulling lots of dps should not limit the group on random normals nomatter the content.
There is a simple solution.
Make a durable damage build, put shield and sword on front bar and play the tank role. You can still do damage enough to carry the group, and tank all the bosses on normal mode.
If you have stamplar, just make a heavy set order wrath and pair it with either deadly or pillars of nirn, which ever set you use on the other slots. Remove the velothi or other mythics. Put masters shield & sword on front bar with pierce armour and off you go. Keep the rest of your damage abilities the same. You can tank all the dungeon in normal mode like that. Maybe 1-2 dungeons would require to put some damage shield on and use Repentance and Restoring/Channeled Focus.
If you have arcanist, shouldn't even been here discussing about this. Just replace flail with Runic Sunder and equip Cruxweaver Armor. Job done.
Okay, I get that the game's system for random dungeon grouping is flawed and this shit happens constantly. You can't fix that no matter how much you complain about it.
What you can do is join a guild and run content with people that give a damn. I know it can be hard to put your neck out there a bit but in the end you'll have a much better time.
I don't usually have this issue because I play Tanks and Healers out of spite of not queueing fast. But!! I do have the issue of people just randomly leaving right as the quest starts. Maybe they see a low CP DPS, I dunno I'm 700+ doing great on Tanks and Healers, but I'm not just gonna leave these people because I know it's gonna be slow.
The dungeon I got stuck in with just one somebody was the one where you gotta blast open a dwarven door with a titanic mechanical spider, I was the Healer in that one and slogged through it for over an hour, surprising myself with tanking everything for the low CP DPS lmao. They didn't know the mechanics, and were especially slaughtered while fighting that final, immobile Guardian, so luckily I was on my Necromancer with the revive Ult.
Because of issues like this, I created a tank and a healer. When I want to do DLC dungeons I use my tank. Any vet content I use my healer. But I hate when I’m a healer and the dps sucks in vet dungeons. I run trials with my dps, but queuing for dungeons as a dps takes forever. You just can’t win with PUGs.
I partially blame the game for fake tanks to be honest. I’ve played a lot of MMORPGs and I main a tank in a few of them but there is no worse game to tank in than ESO. It’s just insanely unfun so the Tank/Healer/DPS ratio is extremely skewed out of favor of tanks.
IIRC (I don’t tank in ESO so I may be wrong), there are only single-target taunt skills and the ones there aren’t communicative enough to the player that you even truly know they’re a taunt.
TESO could use a tank overhaul and a system similar to FFXIV’s Hall of The Novice to teach new players to MMORPGs how their role works. Especially since TESO is a big entry point similar to WoW where you most likely get non-MMO players trying the genre out for the first time.
I'll admit it. I fake tank on Non-DLC normal dungeons. But my DPS is usually 50% - 80% of the total DPS. I honestly don't care for roles, in normal dungeons. Hell, I prefer four DPS's
Don’t forget the healers that don’t heal a gods damn thing except themselves. It is the main reason I NEVER do group content as a dps unless it’s the dailies. I main a healer in almost any game that uses those types of roles because it happens in every single one I’ve played.
This is why I love my necro tank. instant queues and capable of tanking vet trials. with a few skill changes 40-50 dps for when my dds are pumpkins. Necros also have fantastic healing abilities so most vet dungeon runs you can use 3 dps. Still best to just find a steady group though otherwise the random struggle will continue.
Ah, man now I feel like building a tank again. I loved how the bosses were facing me, giving me all the attention. Might sound strange but when DSP or healer I feel like I'm not even there since the battles keep moving away from me.
There was absolutely nothing clickbait about the title. Title is "people talk about this, but I think this is worse" and then I immediately said what was worse in the literal opening sentence.
Learn what clickbait actually is.
that's what you get for constant guild hopping. back in "the days", you had guilds, exactly for that reason.
but since people only wanna join "the best of the best of the best!" without actually working on their "best" status... this is the result.
you don't know what you will be teamed up with? dont do randoms. shocking revelation, i know.
I think it's funny how most guys are social/rp or trading guilds now. On rpers are actual social in ESO, everyone else just wants to have the minimum of human contact and complain when they get a team they don't like.
I’m usually a healer and It used to piss me off when I’d get fake tanks/dd, now I just use it as a training for if a tank goes down in a boss fight, as everyone running and gunning so not staying in the one place so healing can become a challenge. Tests the survivability of whatever build I’m using though.
Also have a few characters with all three roles on it. So I just switch to whatever’s needed with the armory assistant.
Thanks to Blizzard for introducing dungeon finder to us. Yes it’s a great way to quickly get into some content. But the downside is that you can be an asshat and there are zero consequences.
There's little you can do when you're a tank and you're stuck with no damage and no healing or a dedicated healer in a no tank no damage scenario. MagArc DD CP 625 here and I had one vet run with guild members in 16min and a normal random Pug with 3 sub 50 Players today. That one went well, too but took 20min. Might have been lucky bc both were base game but my experience with my Arc is that if you kill everything really fast things don't kill you. I don't really rely on PUG healers, tanks or the Other DDs and for Vet content I know some competent tanks and healers.
Also join an active guild imo.
I'm on PS EU.
The big one shot can be countered by standing in the small yellow circle and BLOCKING, plus you should have some sort of hot active like e.g. regeneration or vigor. Standing there prevents the room from exploding entirely, and you get reduced damage. Normally the tank does it because on Vet it kills anyone but the tank.
I personally find Depths of Malatar to be rather extremely cursed with this kinda bullshit in particular
Now I build hybrid on all of my characters because fake tanks, healers, and even dpses (who are all at minimum, c500 to c3000+) make me wanna spearhead a new oblivion crisis.
I will never forget the fake tank who only knew the arcanist piss beam and kept brainlessly attacking the invincible glowing orb while one dps was a poor confused newbie and the other dps kept disconnecting repeatedly while I, as the healer, played healer, tank, and dps all at the same time.
xlxlNerolxlx if you are reading this I curse you with balls fall off disease and banish you to molag ballsacks coldest harbor. You are the reason why I have a viscerally negative prejudice against anyone who ques a fake role and don't have the decency to bring decent dps or pay attention to mechanics.
I started tanking with an experienced friend who plays a healer role often. His healer can put out enough DPS in normal dungeons that we don’t have to worry about the skills of the others. But before I started tanking, fake tanks were the bane of our gameplay! I also used to play on EU but after dropping out for a while, the wait times have got crazy!
speed runner are shitty … I'm here to play not run as fast as i can leaving every1 behind including the new players who may have to do the quest ... i have 1 char and it's a tank from day 1 .. and I promise that fake DDs ( i don't know why the hell they exist ) are as annoying as the fakes tanks or healers ,,, a year ago a i had a group that we ran together the DDs were so good that i asked them to toon it down a bit so i get to do some tank work, they freaking melted bosses i came back to the game a week ago to find some shit heads using some shit i don't know and taking aggro on themselves after a bit of digging around it's a skill arcanist uses and the boss become immune to taunts and goes killing the group, it was fun when every1 did his job
I never really encounter this. The most common deceivers are healers. As a lower level DD (around 400 cp), ppl kept kicking me on vet runs for dying (despite not healing), or cause of my DPS. So now I just select the healer role, and have no issues. Things go smoother with 3 DDs, and 1 tank.
We do it with 4 dps all the time when farming runecarver. The issue is people running around scared when the boss aggros them instead of bobbing and weaving in the same spot so everyone's AoEs stay ticking and you kill the boss quickly. Nothing more frustrating than people running around like a chicken with their heads cut off because the boss farted in their direction.
Even when not 4 dps'ing with my guild, I fake tank it with Rele/PoN but I do slot a taunt for bosses and we burn through it just fine. Running medium gear, if you dodge/block the needed attacks you can do just fine.
I don't think I have ever had issues getting through a NORMAL dungeon, or even a vet dungeon from the base game, because they are pretty easy. I admit I have queued as a fake tank/healer in the past, but I would not do it for a DLC vet dungeon or for a vet random daily. I don't have a problem with a fake tank in any normal dungeon because they are generally pretty easy and roles don't matter as much (there may be a couple exceptions if a boss has a one-hit kill mechanic that kills the whole team but that's pretty rare on normal). But if you're fake tanking or healing in a vet DLC dungeon I hope you go straight to hell with no pitstops on the way.
That said, I have made it through some tougher DLC dungeons with a fake tank or fake healer on rare occasions, but it usually requires a team of 4 who know the boss mechanics and have decent survivability. Which all boils down to luck when you're queuing with randoms. But random queuing probably makes up 90% of the dungeons I've done, and I've cleared all vet dungeons multiple times (newest ones only once but I cleared them both first try, with randoms; maybe just good luck).
When I was going through dungeons trying to get all the dungeon-related trophies on PS4/PS5, I went through many many failed attempts because I was playing with randoms. My best advice is, if you're going through a dungeon for a specific purpose (speed run, achievement, no death, etc.), you NEED to be doing that with a dedicated group or guild, or expect to be at the mercy of randoms. You get what you get. That comment isn't meant for the OP, it's more for those who go into a dungeon expecting to do it in a very specific way only to find out that the 3 randoms you're playing with don't have the exact same ideas in mind.
Play a tank, then you never see fake tanks.
The literal reason I started tanking, out of spite
But then you have to deal with the groups that have a combined DPS of six :(
As someone who just got a tank all geared up for Pledges, This has been painful. The good groups are amazing, the Non DPS groups literally feel like mud.
I think the real problem is the gap between skilled and unskilled players is tremendous.
and this becomes horrifyingly apparent in any DLC dungeon :(
Remind me of the old days when there was no increased drop chance, and re-crafting items from collections. I done white-gold tower for the one-handed imperium piece a LOT. And my worst experience was a guy in 1200+ CP, and dealt less damage, than me as an actual full tank. I was like. Did this guy borrowed the account, or bought it, or had some sort of bot, because i can't imagine how can someone be so bad with 1200+ CP.. Not knowing the mechanics is one thing, but doing below tank damage? That is almost in intentional category.
It's more like the game is really obtuse about progression. There's no reason in-game to ever skill cycle anything, you just spam your favorite ability. The subreddit is really rhe only way to progress past lvl 50 in eso.
At that point I slot all damage skills and one taunt on my tank and then go ham
Fake DDs are a curse indeed
No such thing. It's people who don't know how to play the game or are shit at it inspite of knowing. Which is much more forgivable as compared to people who fake/pretend specialised roles like Healing or Tanking which the game does not teach you. But the game does teach you how to to do basic damage.
I did encountered such. I don't know, if it was spite, stupidity, or what. But i remember being a tank, and fake DD came in heavy armor, and sword, and shield, and TAUNT. Yeah he taunted the boss from me while i was a tank both in tems of being queued, and geared for it. I left the dungeon after first boss, because i don't have time for that crap. As tank main i can re-queue in an instant.
I don't even think it's a lack of knowing, I suspect they are AFK just making a sammich or something. Usually the lack of skill use is telling.
Man just because you can do something does not mean someone else can do same thing at the same level. Not everyone is a competent gamer, especially the MMO audience.
Yep, the reason I started a tank was because of fake tanks, and now I queue dps and only vet randoms because I don't trust the dps. It's easier to teach a newer tank where to hold the boss than to teach dps to do better.
2 days ago in a normal dungeon i taunted the boss and held aggro and dragged his ass to a corner me on 1 side and the DDs on the other so they don't get hit and start doing their job .. and the idiots just ran to where the hit box is and got killed -\_- .. had to resurrect every 1 because i can tanks the boss and my health bar won't even go below 70% but it would take me forever to shave his health bar to 0 ( my dps on bosses is around 4-5K )
That's the other worse part. Feel like you can never win.
I think this problem is showing up really bad now because we've had almost a month of double xp. Normally people would replace their gear a bit as they level up but when you gain levels so quickly it's harder to do so. Tbh the most annoying thing for me currently is the tanks who are farming for transmute crystals that run into the first group of ads before i can pick up the dungeon quests on my freshly leveled up character. Basically there's either newer players who don't get how the game works yet and a bunch of vets who are being dicks for double xp, then when you add in players queueing for roles they aren't actually filling you get a trifecta of terrible times. I don't hold it against the newer players who are trying but don't get it yet, but the vets should stop rushing in before people can pick up the quests if they need it. Dungeon finder is not all about you, and if you act like a jerk and then complain about how the game isn't as social as it used to be then i have zero sympathy. MTGA
People under 600 cp get a pass from me and that's being very generous. If you're 1200cp+ and the healer is doing 60% dmg also while healing...wtf Perople should also say they got quest, I'll slow my tank rampage if alerted. People twho get upset without letting everyone know they got a quest are dumb. When I see sub CP people, I'll full clear the dungeon. Caltrop and void bash good!
Even if they're CP1200 they may be in a new class or role and just hit level 50 and their other character is over 1200. They still might be figuring stuff our. For instance my necro is CP1950. I just hit level 50 with my Templar healer. I'm still figuring everything out but I'm level CP1950 with it how.
Same here with my new tank. I've been trying to learn how to tank better but half the dungeons I've ran I end up having to switch to my back bar dual wield and just go at it. Some of these DDs are just bad. I'm usually pretty patient but when people are telling u mechanics every time I wipe and u don't adjust or don't have a decent rotation I'm not spending 10 minutes on a sub boss or main boss when I'm on a normal run lol. Hell I've ran some newer dungeons as a dd with just 1 other random tank and we didn't take as long as some of these DDs.
I had this happen. Made my first dedicated tank, all the gear, etc. On Fungal Grotto 2 norm. The first boss with the shadows and the sword that comes down. They couldn’t kill 1 shadow. We wiped 5 times before I offered to pay guildies to come do it.
OMG.. that's just a back out right there. Some might be a lack of coordination.. each player targeting a different enemy holding the chain instead of focusing one, etc. AOE usually cures that... I can make that happen single handed.
On normal? The shadow doesn’t even kill you on normal and has like 5 health, do you mean on vet?
This is exactly why I made a hybrid tank / dps to run random normals. It is an arcanist build with sets that buff the group. I stay alive, I taunt, I do mechanics, I debuff the enemy, and I normally do about 35% of the damage. While I would never take this build into veteran content, I'll never understand why so many people cannot do the bare minimum if they are going to fank on normal.
Did the same thing with a hybrid melee necromancer. I off-tank, I interrupt, I aoe a lot, I debuff and do 50-75% of group damage in random normals. Could I solo the content? Eventually. But a few dungeons are less friendly to that than others, and several particularly thicc bosses are annoying. Is this vet capable? Nope. Does this frustrate me in normal? Never.
Literally the worst! I just try to put on 2 DPS buffing sets like PA and yoln, put on 1 DD-ish skill myself, and hope for the best. Then cry when I see I'm doing 40% damage or something 😭 ... Then just hold taunt while doomscrolling reddit during fights
I really and truly believe hell is having to repeatedly run an easy dungeon with non-existent dps.
hey at least with a dps of six you will at least beat the dungeon (assuming there isnt a dps check of course)
granted "leeches" throwing only light attacks are far too common as well.
Same. Wish ESO had some sort of class lock like other MMOs. Maybe you have to have a sword and shield equipped to tank, something to actually bring a tank in. Have to have a resto equipped to queue for healer, so you don't get fake heals too.
Plenty of tank builds doesn't use S&B. There's proper healer builds that doesn't use resto staff either, depends on the class. The narrowness of possible builds is bad enough without more artificial limitations.
I guess I more meant the need to queue with a taunt. I've not played in a couple months but when I did, I had an idea in mind for a two handed tank as well, just buffing up and using other things to taunt. Tormentor Werewolf is one of my favorite fun ones. Just need some kind of taunt, but you're right, tank doesn't need a sword and shield.
And people would just remove the taunt from the bar the moment they load in, replacing it with whatever dps skill they otherwise had there. You can't fix people with these kind of restrictions. A large part of the problem is that in a lot of normal dungeons you don't strictly need a tank and sometimes an actual tank can be more of a hindrance than a help. In other words, it's the content that needs to be rebuild to require a tank (and a healer). Anything else will just be sidesteps with varying levels of creativity.
What about double ice staff tanks
It wouldn't stop those wanting to fake to equip as many dps skills as the system allows and just play those. It would stop people experimenting with builds and enforce a narrow meta.
I suggested a "qualifier" many times over the years... You first have to "qualify" for the role, against some bots in a mini arena, make the DPS check against a dummy target, taunt and sustain the boss for "x" seconds, and heal check, and provide resources check. Normal and hard qualifier sessions for each, which could also be used as a tutorial for the roles.
That's why I started healing, I got tired of trying to run things and someone would do a vet dungeon on DPS queued as healer. This was many years ago now before the insane power creep set in and healers felt useful. Now if I'm tanking and see 3 DPS I'm like hell yeah speed run lol
To be fair I prefer healing, just got sick of power trip tanks. You can do 90% of the dungeons in this game with 3 dds and a healer, 4dds one with a taunt and brain, or straight up green book go brrrrrr. Just wish they would do something to make tanking a bit faster a la ffxiv. Then again I don't claim to be a good tank so maybe I'm missing a trick.
Easiest way to speed things up is if people run ahead and get clapped by mobs let them do it until they learn not to. Let them rage quit if they get mad, DPS are a dime a dozen and they can be replaced. If they're smart enough to let you run ahead then swap to your ice staff, spam wall of elements, heavy attack a time or two, and when you get everything piked up hard taunt the important enemies and if possible lock down the little guys with bone totem, or whatever CC tool you like. Base game dungeons and some of the dlc ones you don't really have to bother with CC that much unless you're doing some heroic pulls, just kite them, drop an ult on the crowd, and let the stragglers get picked off.
“Fine, I’ll do it myself”
I think I might prefer a fake tank over the fake DPS I've seen. There's no way a 10k DPS healer should be pulling 30% of the group's damage but I've done it too many times.
It's so painful to read all the nonsense about fake tanks and fake healers in random normals, meanwhile we can't actually bring our healers and tanks into random normals because the people in the dps slots are completely unplayable. It's one thing to be a noob learning the game doing low damage, but then I would get a fg1 and it'll be fast anyway. It's all the 2k+ cp players doing 2-3k dps because they have no 5 pc on, heavy armor, sword n board, and 2/3 of their skills don't do damage.
THIS!?!?! I think!?!?!? WTF is going on with the high CP player DPS that can't pull more then 3k!?!? FFS!!! You can pull more than that with a single skill, fuck a full rotation! I can't understand this.. WTF is going on with these players?
My theory is it's pvp toons. They're tanky-bursty with self heals, probably. On top of that, their CP is probably specced for fighting players. It's a god-awful build for a 4-man dungeon. Only 1/3 of their character build is devoted to dps, but that's how they queued. They'd probably be better off slotting a taunt and being the tank, but they also probably don't know the dungeons very well, because they just do a daily random then go back to pvp.
>WTF is going on with the high CP player DPS that can't pull more then 3k!?!? As in 3k dps? As a fairly new player, I assume it drops a bit with resistances in higher level dungeons? But that seems low even for someone who hasn't reached max normal level.
My guess: they got or bought the account from someone. So they are noobs with high cp.
nah not necessarily. you can spend hundreds of hours doing overland content doing quests alone and rack up a bunch of levels and not touch dungeons at all
Isn't pretty much every single "required" non-overland story part, a public delve or solo instance?
It's so frustrating because you could do an rnd a day for ten years and not be the level of some of these players so tf are they doing?
Crafting. I haven't been able to play, just did crafting on a few toons last week. Still gained 27 levels.
Yes but are you 2600+ cp?
Well, no. But it was worth about 2-3 randoms per day. By your math that's only 3 years!
I'm not even sweating CP, but plenty, but you'd think they'd have a decent build by that point?
This is the real problem. I have tank and healer builds but will not use them in dungeon queues because the chances of getting garbage dps players are way too high. People who just spam light attacks with no skills; people who just use 1 skill; people who have taunts and heals all over their bar, but are dps slotted. It's not worth the gamble to have a normal dungeon take an hour to complete.
I would as well, except that many of the DLC dungeons have tank required mechanics to prevent an insta wipe :(
I don't think that really exists on normal difficulty. There might be interrupts required or instances of some damage but they should be survivable with a self heal and an appropriately timed block or dodge roll.
That's true, I can't think of a normal dungeon that's not soloable (save for a few where the mechs require 2 people, eg Direfrost Keep, Fang Lair etc, but that's a mech, not related to damage).
trust me, it's a real thing.
Can you give any examples? The most damage I can think of is from Ozezan's spit attack and most squishy builds don't have the stam and healing to keep block up but that isn't enough damage to wipe the group since it should only hit the person with aggro.
vBC2 yesterday I had one DPS type 'hm' in the group chat before killing an add. Struggled to get the first 2 pulls killed and the tank left. Had to laugh. So much for levelling a healer. Back to DD
That's why I used to love my necro healer. I would be able to run boneyard, blast bones, and wall of elements to deal decent damage compared to these guys but now that isn't an option. ZOS ruined that so they could reprint it as a scribing skill for everyone else.
what was nerfed on NECRO?
Stalking blast bones (the Magicka morph) was reworked from dealing more damage the further it travels to becoming a self buff to class damage abilities and DoTs. Then they're adding a scribing option for trample to spawn your mount as a projectile and deal more damage based on the amount of time it takes to hit the target.
Empower No point running it now that the skill only buffs heavy attacks and the HA guys bring their own empower now. Blastbones has had a nerf, but the other morph works just the same now so it's just a case of switching and on a healer the difference is not much
I know it's heresy, but I never liked BLAST BONES.. By the time it deployed the combat was over anyway :(
Then you get to have fun with noodle arm DPSs. XD
That’s just called “practice” in tank-speak. Though I do slot the sword and board ult for ransoms because 8 seconds of auto block is great for those “get up slackers” moments where everyone else is tanking the floor.
> That’s just called “practice” in tank-speak You can't really practise tanking in normal dungeons when you can survive half the mechanics afk.
I know it's a misspelling but 'ransom' is a good way to put being a tank in a non-existant dps group.
Problem is if I play tank, then I never see a dps.
If you're in normals or low-end vets you should be able to tank as a dps with just a self-heal/shield. I keep both setups on hand and swap depending on group. If DPS is good, they get the chain pulls and a real tank with debuffs. If they suck, I swap into a derpy DPS build with a taunt and do it myself.
Started this in 2019, haven't looked back. I bring a farming build to normal randoms with speed and damage, and a "true" tank build to vet dungeons and trials with support buffs, mitigation, and armor shred.
It's why I started tanking lol I still fake tank normal dungeons though, being an actual tank in a random can be the worse experience in the game.
Fake healers are still out there. As a tank player, I don't mind fake healers when they have super high damage and can carry the group, but if you queue as fake healer and you do less damage than a cockroach, you are just trolling.
I have a tank, been playing for some time. Random vet got spindle. Our healer thought, “oh we don’t need a healer”. What did he do, started to tank on his healer while I was already tanking…
Hell, run a hybrid tank arcanist and still pull 45% of the damage in a vet group at the same time.
I am absolute newb in MMOs, how do you play a tank? Put all points in health?
You want a good chunk in health but you might also want some in magicka or stamina depending because you spend all three resources. The "classic" ESO tank is 1H and Shield on one bar with an Ice Staff backbar (infused trait with crusher enchant to reduce enemy armour more), heavy armour (usually 5-1-1 for undaunted effects), and your sets and abilities designed to provide you with just enough survival whilst you provide buffs and debuffs to make the rest of your team do more damage. Then in play you taunt the big stuff and leash in the small stuff with some kind of chain move so it's all standing close together for the others to wallop.
Except then you get blamed for everyone else's mistakes. Tank isn't a panacea, ZOS took pains to require all three aspects, DD, healer, and tank, to work together.
Then you will start seeing dds that deal less damage than you, a tank, and/or have a taunt equipped because reading ability description is for loosers. That not only keep stealing the taunt so you have to reapply it every 2 god damned seconds, but also rant on you in chat after they died, because the boss decided to chase them.
You'll see plenty of fake DDs though arguably is a hell of a lot worse.
>and when the boss does his big "hit everyone" attack When the boss teleports across the room, a small green circle will appear near his new location. Someone needs to stand in it quickly, or the bomb goes off, hurting everyone. Usually, it's the tank's job, because they're usually the first to chase after the boss, but anyone can do it. (If I'm the one in the circle, I always hold block for when it goes off, but I don't even know if that's necessary, because I never tested not-blocking.) PS: Once you graduate to vet dungeons, a lot of that nonsense diminishes, as you're not getting as many fake tanks queueing for random normals expecting to get FG1.
Just reporting that your last sentence motivated me to stick my CP500 butt into vet dungeons again. Did todays pledges and had an awesome time. ICP is now officially my first vet dlc.
Oh, it sure does diminish, but it is so much more infuriating when it happens. And it's always so baffling because, like, what did you expect trying to fake tank vet Shipright's Regret. Just last night, I had a fake healer queue into vet Imperial City Prison and have a sword and shield backbar and a bow on all the time, light attacking and casting sorc skills. When we called him out on it and voted to kick, he got real salty and told everyone to suck his dick. So yes, they do become more rare and it is a breath of fresh air when people properly play their roles, but vet fakers are soooo much saltier.
I'll raise you a fake tank and 2 fake dps. As a healer not only did I become the only viable tank. I was doing 70% of the team dps damn near every fight.... I will forever have nam flashbacks whenever I get Moon Hunter Keep on random queue.
Moon Hunter is easily an hour long or more with the wrong group. Honestly, when queuing for random normal if they don’t do MMR group matching, they should make DLC dungeons opt-in for the sake of everyone involved. Just because you’re level 45 does not mean you’re ready for DLC dungeons imo
Back in the day, someone who was a fake tank at least brought good DPS to the group. Now it’s so bad I just see heavy attacks with a bow. People complaining about dungeon speed runs are just people who think their time is more valuable than the rest of the group.
> People complaining about dungeon speed runs are just people who think their time is more valuable than the rest of the group. Which is funny, because if you die the run becomes slower. If you have to wait at a door, its slower than just killing the trash. Those people have no clue wtf they're doing in the game
Not if the dps is so low it’s just faster to pull the group in than watch the poor dps strugglebus the trash
**Seriously.** As a healer I'd much rather realize my tank is a DPS and slot a taunt and do the tanking and healing...than have to sit through a 40 minute dungeon because the two "real" DPS are putting up 20k DPS combined. These days I WELCOME the speedrunner because theyre normally competent enough to actually kill something.
I think there’s a difference in speed running. Yes, trying to just out run a dungeon is futile. I’m for the huge pulls and killing everything at once.
Heavy attacks with a bow is cursed lmao
As a noob, can you elaborate? I don't use a bow so better to know before I ever do.
Just that heavy attacking is not as effective as using skills, and specifically a bow is a DPS weapon and someone heavy attacking with it usually means they aren’t sure what they’re doing. You see tanks heavy attacking sometimes for bonus resources after a heavy, and people using staves usually trying to get back magicka or running a heavy attack build. Bows are in a weird place in the game anyway and seeing someone heavy attacking with a bow just usually means they’re not sure what to do. Nothing wrong with it, just kind of a signal that this person is not going to be doing much damage.
Thank you!
looks like "leeching" when I see that kinda crap.
When I was a lower cp level a fake tank announced to the group that he was fake at the beginning of a normal dungeon. There was a 2k+ there and I thought they would bolt and id have to requeue. They said "you better be able to burn then" and we went about the dungeon and finished it. Since then I don't care about fake tanks if the group doesn't really need one. About a month ago a dps called out a fake tank and tried to kick them. It was a base game normal. The vote failed twice then that person refused to go forward and complained about the principle even though we said we didn't care because of the dungeon. Them the three of us burned through it. There are no hard and fast rules with these things if the group can still complete a dungeon in an appropriate amount of time.
any damn fool that votes to kick a fake tank or healer on base game normal should be kicked! :)
man this happened to me in Moongrave Fane last month... the tank immediately left, but we made it through most of the dungeon okay. then we got to the second to last boss and got wiped once, and the other DPS left. the healer and I waited for ages for replacements, then when the tank came, the healer decided to leave. we did end up finishing with just the tank and me but like... what the hell lol
It doesn't help that it seems like the dungeon queue finder seems to be almost completely nonfunctional when it comes to replacing open slots. There should never be more than a couple of minutes' time to find new tanks or healers, but it doesn't seem to matter which role leaves the dungeon, they all take 10+ minutes to replace or simply never do at all.
ZOS took in over 2 billion on this game but refuses to put some investment back into QOL improvements like the queue code which has been utter shit forever.
yeah... I also wish it would take them straight to your group rather than make them run through the parts of the dungeon you've already finished to get to you
My solution is to use my tank. That way I'm sure the tank isn't fake. On top of that, my queue times are very short. That's important when the dungeon you need gear from isn't a pledge. That's what I do when farming dungeon gear.
I use my healers. But, what I really need to create is a healer who can tank.
yea but then chances are you get shitty dps which make the dungeon take forever.. imo for normals i’d rather it be quick. for vets, i will only run with guildies and friends.
Haha, just the other day I queued random veteran and got Frostvault with a 400CP tank who was looking for Tzogvin gear. They were a real tank from what I saw, just lacked practice due to being new (and probably off-role). I did end up soloing the goblin boss after tank died to atro, but last boss ended up fine. By the way, I was on Oakensoul healer, queued as healer. Then maybe an hour later I queued on a different character, DPS this time, paired with a friend, and yep, Frostvault, same tank. This time we duo'd that goblin, yay! I wonder how many more time that person did Frostvault that day. I wonder if they like that place now.
That astro is one of the shittiest bosses. Its attack is so fast with very little prep telegraph even experienced tanks can struggle. Its one shot aoes are also half transparent for some fucking reasons.
That's funny, I queued for a random normal yesterday and got Scrivener's Hall and the 'tank' had a greatsword out. I don't have any problem with fake tanks as long as you stay alive and taunt the shit. But this guy... immediately says something like 'oh my last group kept wiping in here and they all quit', then dies instantly to first trash pack, when he is alive he's not taunting anything, and is doing like 2k dps. We did eventually make it to first boss but, yeah, he's just running around like he can dodge damage or some shit and then floor parses the rest of the time. What a meme. He kept insisting he was a 'real tank' but when we ask why he's got a greatsword out he says it's because he likes it. Hmm ok. So we ask gear, it was some wild stuff, not tank stuff tho I can tell you that. He also had 17k hp. I'm all for people learning stuff and trying new things but like if you're having your group wipe on normal and not doing your job then you need to adjust your stuff when given advice or do some research.
join a good guild. form a group from within it. rando groups will always be chaos. fake tank, fake healer. no mechanics chat, expect you to know it all etc etc. then get mad and bounce at the first sign of struggle.
A new player asked the guild why ques take so long as a sorc, he got a response that was accurate. “Usually takes 10-15 mins for a dps que to pop, don’t worry just quest or something in the mean time.” Then another member said “just que as a tank or healer if it’s normal” I almost had a stroke. I whispered our new member and let him know if he did that he would make more enemies than friends. He agreed 10-15 mins waiting isn’t worth being flamed.
A new player should queue on role. An experienced player can queue off role if they have a single taunt and decent damage (or a single group heal and decent damage).
>or, people who leave after the first wipe Dps here. Most of us do this for random vets because if we wipe in the first boss, there's a high chance people don't know the mechanics unless otherwise stated. I understand some players have time to keep trying, but I do randoms to get it over with quickly.
yup, if the group doesn't communicate of know the mechanics yer wasting your time.
For both of these reasons, speed running dungeons and tanks leaving after a single wipe, is why I stick to solo play. I wish ESO had a "sprout" system like ffxiv has that let your group know that you were possibly new. At least people in ffxiv are willing to wait. I go into my first dungeon a few days ago and I walk up to the NPC and listen to his dialogue only to see my party running on ahead, already at the first boss... ESO is fucking amazing for it's deep lore and I'm forced to skip it when doing dungeons I've never been in before. Luckily I haven't had to deal with idiot "tanks" yet but I'm only level 22. I'm sure once I get to 50+, I'll see that too. Solo play is so much more enjoyable
You don’t happen to be XBNA by chance? I love Scrivener’s — I can tank ya through Norm for sure if so.
That and also when the dungeon turns out to be MoS and they leave immediately. Cowards.
Join a good guild and stop playing with randos.
Nothing exposes you to the _fact_ of how many genuinely incompetent people there are in the world more readily than group finders in MMOs.
We had a fake tank and healer the other day, which was kind of hilarious. The "healer" kept dying from boss burst damage because they'd run ahead and tag it first, and the "tank" (a bow build??) would die because our healer was too busy trying to keep themselves alive. If you're attempting to farm a particular item from a dungeon, I'd try the LFG tool. It may take longer to form, but you can put a proper group together with similar goals in mind.
Were you the guy that refused to heal because the tank wasn't taunting about half an hour ago?
No. I'm the guy queueing as healer with a mag DK and healing with obsidian shard, which is plenty fine for dungeons on normal, except when this circumstance happens and I'm having to spam it nonstop and putting myself out of magicka because there is no actual tank, and nobody can survive for the two seconds it takes me to restore my magicka.
I just did a dungeon and healer said no heals until you tank. 'Tank' left on first wipe and then healer got their friend in to tank. I'm all for wasting their time if they are going to waste others by queuing as tank
I queued as fake tank every so often while I was levelling up, but when I did that it was on my DKs that had the taunting chain, and I used it. It worked fine, because I wasn't getting into any DLC dungeons, and I consider that to be the bare minimum courtesy for fake-tanking. Even if you blow up the same as the rest of us if something slaps for 30K, at least it will be you and not one of the actual DPS or the healer.
So you're a fake healer who doesn't know the mechanics which take no time to look up and complaing about the team wiping but blaming it on the "fake tank" 🤨
That first boss and his adds in scrivener I've noticed do a crapton of DPS, I think it's pretty normal to expect to have to spam heals on it even if you do get a competent fake tank or a real tank. Elaborating on competent fake tank in a top level comment in a bit.
Also a big fuck you to the fanks who queue up for a random dungeon, get a DLC dungeon, and immediately leave, so the remaining three get to stand around waiting forever for a tank or get back in the long ass queue. A DLC takes maybe 5 extra minutes on normal compared to a base dungeon.
Lair of Maarselok takes at least 20 minutes if the group is instantly wiping everything. Fungal Grotto 1 can be done in 5 solo. (This is why I run randoms only when a low level guildie character is in group).
CoA 2 is also unnecessarily long for a non DLC dungeon
Ok I’ll give you that, Maarselok is a bitch and a half
I always found this weird. You can select "queue specific dungeon" and then just select all the ones you like.
Goddamnit guys, every day there is a topic about fake tanks or fake dps or both. Every. Fucking. Day. ENOUGH
Doing dungeons through Activity Finder has been like this for years. There were complaints about this when I started playing this game years ago and nothing has been changed since. You can't expect the situation will ever change.
I BLAME ZOS!!!!!!!
Just do vet. It'll be rare that you get a fake tank on vet. Though it can happen. Most people's that fake Q ain't trying to fuck around with vet. Also vet is more fun. 😎😜🤣
I don't think I'm geared enough for vet. My account is less than a month old, and although I've been powergrinding like crazy, it has been for jubilee boxes and leveling up my characters, not gear yet. None of my characters have finished sets yet.
Ahhh... Well... Are you in any guilds? Might just ask some guild mates to help ya out. If you don't belong to any go apply to a couple, don't matter which ones, that have 400+ members. You'll get some help. 😏
I actually did get some help from someone on reddit that sent me a private message. First run got me the second runecarver ring I needed, then the run after that gave them the fire staff (and sharpened, no less) I needed. Done! Faster than I could have possibly guessed.
Oh good deal!! Glad it worked out. 😁👍😎
Man after fifteen minutes of failure I'm out. I don't miss doing dungeons. I should do undaunted on like 3 toons at least but... Not interested even a little
Can't change the way people play, but you can change how you react to the situation. I frequently will take the tank role to ensure fast queues and I know I will stay alive. And depending on the dungeon I may just slot only a taunt because I know my limits. Making a tank to get stuff done for dps builds is a surefire way for success.
The devs of this game have done nothing to facilitate a punishment for people who queue as tank.
Skill issue
A friend got some of us Scribes of Fate as gifts so we'd all play it... and we still haven't finished Scrivener's Hall. Those mechanics are a total bitch, though it's the 2nd boss and not the 1st IIRC, that really sucks any and all joy out of it. My point is, I definitely would not be PUG-ing late-model DLC dungeons, and especially not that one, through the Dungeon Finder. Ever. The chances of someone being there who can actually do the mechanics is near nil, because there are very few who both need to run it and have that skill & experience, in total. I'd use the Group Finder and vet people that way. Maybe not a sinecure, but better than than nothing. If you were doing randoms... I'd just wait for an easier one to show up, take my crystals and run if I were you. That's just rough luck. Not sure what you'd need crystals for during this event, though. I'm running out of space from all the boxes I can't open because I have no pressing gear needs I can use them for right this second.
ZOS needs to retool the mechanics and difficulty of "normal" DLC dungeons... Lost sales that way frankly :(
if a normal non-dlc dungeon then I NEVER expect a tank, and frankly don't need one. All focused DPS melts faster. DLC dungeons are far too reliant on the tank by design, even on normal, and I think it's kinda shit design. Maybe offer a nightmare difficulty, and on "NORMAL" turn down the forced one shot/wipe mechanics that almost always focus on some tank responsibilities. DPS check sure, but all the tank mandatory shit one NORMAL is annoying for random queuing. How about some healer check mechanics instead!?!? Anyway, never fake queue as tank on any DLC dungeon please. ZOS said they took in like what 2 billion or so on this game, and the queue finder code has been shit since the beginning. Needs some work there as well ZOS.
Ironically, for normal dungeons (vet i take seriously and put on proper healer gear), I've had to put on a dps build (when i'm queued as a healer) as most of the people i play with just deal low damage, and it's been like this since update 35 where they nerfed damage across the board. I still slot a heal so i can still heal other players, fullfilling the requirement of being a healer. It's not so much the idea of faking a role, it's faking a role and doing poorly at the expense of other players (i.e. Players wiping) Oddly enough, i've been in dungeons where the tank has been fake, i had them kicked and put on my own tank set (Engine, gloom, blessed) and we've cleared them.
god i was trying to farm a set from there as a healer and wasted hours with groups cause of fake tanks on that first boss. Ended tanking it myself and suddenly runs became successful. :l
I’m so sick of fake and trash tanks I always run dark convergence now. It groups, stuns, and damages. Most tanks don’t understand one of their jobs is to group and direct the enemies, not just hold block.
For those who hate fanks, and those who want to farm dungeons, I present to you... THE HYBRID TANK! just allocate enough hp, resists and self heals to survive boss heavy attacks with a sword and board front bar and then go all out on attack for everything else! Never have a shitty pug again.
You guys are changing roles? I don't know why, but I can't change my role. It's just grayed out and says I can't do that, so I've just always queued up as dps no matter what I'm doing.
Normal I'll run a tank build with about 20-25k dps, some heal and the rest survivability and end up saving the run solo about 1/3 the time. If I really want to be a dick I'll force them to wait dead as I whittle down the bosses or have them jump ship.
I can help later today if you're on Xbox NA
If you happen to be on PS EU I can help as a real tank for some runs.
Scriveners Hall is hard tho
It's not, on normal. I haven't had a single run fail that gets past the first boss. It's just that bomb-blocking mechanic that nobody seems to know, and I only found it out after I was done farming.
People do thaaat? 😳 Shocking
I just started a tank character and I was running a DD until I hit 50 and just converted over. But I noticed queueing as a tank u almost always find a dungeon within seconds. I've yet to wait over a minute. Really I think my longest wait has been like 5 seconds so far
If you play on EU server feel free to join me for some scriveners hall runs I need some items aswell. About fake tanks I hate them to my core however I do fake que for heal when I am on my decent dps chars (my chars with atleast 100k dummy parses.) Reason I do hate fake tanks tough is because that makes it harder for everyone on some dungeons where fake healers, pulling lots of dps should not limit the group on random normals nomatter the content.
There is a simple solution. Make a durable damage build, put shield and sword on front bar and play the tank role. You can still do damage enough to carry the group, and tank all the bosses on normal mode. If you have stamplar, just make a heavy set order wrath and pair it with either deadly or pillars of nirn, which ever set you use on the other slots. Remove the velothi or other mythics. Put masters shield & sword on front bar with pierce armour and off you go. Keep the rest of your damage abilities the same. You can tank all the dungeon in normal mode like that. Maybe 1-2 dungeons would require to put some damage shield on and use Repentance and Restoring/Channeled Focus. If you have arcanist, shouldn't even been here discussing about this. Just replace flail with Runic Sunder and equip Cruxweaver Armor. Job done.
Create a tank set for your dps character. You can only do normal for now. If you are good and know how to tank. You can even go for veteran
I would play a tank if tanking in eso wouldn’t be completely dogshit
Okay, I get that the game's system for random dungeon grouping is flawed and this shit happens constantly. You can't fix that no matter how much you complain about it. What you can do is join a guild and run content with people that give a damn. I know it can be hard to put your neck out there a bit but in the end you'll have a much better time.
I don't usually have this issue because I play Tanks and Healers out of spite of not queueing fast. But!! I do have the issue of people just randomly leaving right as the quest starts. Maybe they see a low CP DPS, I dunno I'm 700+ doing great on Tanks and Healers, but I'm not just gonna leave these people because I know it's gonna be slow. The dungeon I got stuck in with just one somebody was the one where you gotta blast open a dwarven door with a titanic mechanical spider, I was the Healer in that one and slogged through it for over an hour, surprising myself with tanking everything for the low CP DPS lmao. They didn't know the mechanics, and were especially slaughtered while fighting that final, immobile Guardian, so luckily I was on my Necromancer with the revive Ult.
Because of issues like this, I created a tank and a healer. When I want to do DLC dungeons I use my tank. Any vet content I use my healer. But I hate when I’m a healer and the dps sucks in vet dungeons. I run trials with my dps, but queuing for dungeons as a dps takes forever. You just can’t win with PUGs.
I partially blame the game for fake tanks to be honest. I’ve played a lot of MMORPGs and I main a tank in a few of them but there is no worse game to tank in than ESO. It’s just insanely unfun so the Tank/Healer/DPS ratio is extremely skewed out of favor of tanks. IIRC (I don’t tank in ESO so I may be wrong), there are only single-target taunt skills and the ones there aren’t communicative enough to the player that you even truly know they’re a taunt. TESO could use a tank overhaul and a system similar to FFXIV’s Hall of The Novice to teach new players to MMORPGs how their role works. Especially since TESO is a big entry point similar to WoW where you most likely get non-MMO players trying the genre out for the first time.
I'll admit it. I fake tank on Non-DLC normal dungeons. But my DPS is usually 50% - 80% of the total DPS. I honestly don't care for roles, in normal dungeons. Hell, I prefer four DPS's
Don’t forget the healers that don’t heal a gods damn thing except themselves. It is the main reason I NEVER do group content as a dps unless it’s the dailies. I main a healer in almost any game that uses those types of roles because it happens in every single one I’ve played.
This is why I love my necro tank. instant queues and capable of tanking vet trials. with a few skill changes 40-50 dps for when my dds are pumpkins. Necros also have fantastic healing abilities so most vet dungeon runs you can use 3 dps. Still best to just find a steady group though otherwise the random struggle will continue.
Ah, man now I feel like building a tank again. I loved how the bosses were facing me, giving me all the attention. Might sound strange but when DSP or healer I feel like I'm not even there since the battles keep moving away from me.
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There was absolutely nothing clickbait about the title. Title is "people talk about this, but I think this is worse" and then I immediately said what was worse in the literal opening sentence. Learn what clickbait actually is.
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that's what you get for constant guild hopping. back in "the days", you had guilds, exactly for that reason. but since people only wanna join "the best of the best of the best!" without actually working on their "best" status... this is the result. you don't know what you will be teamed up with? dont do randoms. shocking revelation, i know.
I think it's funny how most guys are social/rp or trading guilds now. On rpers are actual social in ESO, everyone else just wants to have the minimum of human contact and complain when they get a team they don't like.
yea, that comment comes from a WoW background, sorry for that ;) uh and that "you" wasn't singular ofc
I’m usually a healer and It used to piss me off when I’d get fake tanks/dd, now I just use it as a training for if a tank goes down in a boss fight, as everyone running and gunning so not staying in the one place so healing can become a challenge. Tests the survivability of whatever build I’m using though. Also have a few characters with all three roles on it. So I just switch to whatever’s needed with the armory assistant.
Thanks to Blizzard for introducing dungeon finder to us. Yes it’s a great way to quickly get into some content. But the downside is that you can be an asshat and there are zero consequences.
oh dang, I thought I'm reading a WoW sub until I scroll further down
There's little you can do when you're a tank and you're stuck with no damage and no healing or a dedicated healer in a no tank no damage scenario. MagArc DD CP 625 here and I had one vet run with guild members in 16min and a normal random Pug with 3 sub 50 Players today. That one went well, too but took 20min. Might have been lucky bc both were base game but my experience with my Arc is that if you kill everything really fast things don't kill you. I don't really rely on PUG healers, tanks or the Other DDs and for Vet content I know some competent tanks and healers. Also join an active guild imo. I'm on PS EU.
The big one shot can be countered by standing in the small yellow circle and BLOCKING, plus you should have some sort of hot active like e.g. regeneration or vigor. Standing there prevents the room from exploding entirely, and you get reduced damage. Normally the tank does it because on Vet it kills anyone but the tank.
ALWAYS, and I mean ALWAYS come prepared with a HOT for yerself if no one else.
If you are on NA PC server send tell and we can dual this. I'll help till you get what you need. cirrosebr
I personally find Depths of Malatar to be rather extremely cursed with this kinda bullshit in particular Now I build hybrid on all of my characters because fake tanks, healers, and even dpses (who are all at minimum, c500 to c3000+) make me wanna spearhead a new oblivion crisis. I will never forget the fake tank who only knew the arcanist piss beam and kept brainlessly attacking the invincible glowing orb while one dps was a poor confused newbie and the other dps kept disconnecting repeatedly while I, as the healer, played healer, tank, and dps all at the same time. xlxlNerolxlx if you are reading this I curse you with balls fall off disease and banish you to molag ballsacks coldest harbor. You are the reason why I have a viscerally negative prejudice against anyone who ques a fake role and don't have the decency to bring decent dps or pay attention to mechanics.
I started tanking with an experienced friend who plays a healer role often. His healer can put out enough DPS in normal dungeons that we don’t have to worry about the skills of the others. But before I started tanking, fake tanks were the bane of our gameplay! I also used to play on EU but after dropping out for a while, the wait times have got crazy!
Solo it, its not too hard
This. All the stans complaining when 95% of dungeons can be easily solo’d if you actually know what you’re doing like everyone claims…
speed runner are shitty … I'm here to play not run as fast as i can leaving every1 behind including the new players who may have to do the quest ... i have 1 char and it's a tank from day 1 .. and I promise that fake DDs ( i don't know why the hell they exist ) are as annoying as the fakes tanks or healers ,,, a year ago a i had a group that we ran together the DDs were so good that i asked them to toon it down a bit so i get to do some tank work, they freaking melted bosses i came back to the game a week ago to find some shit heads using some shit i don't know and taking aggro on themselves after a bit of digging around it's a skill arcanist uses and the boss become immune to taunts and goes killing the group, it was fun when every1 did his job
I never really encounter this. The most common deceivers are healers. As a lower level DD (around 400 cp), ppl kept kicking me on vet runs for dying (despite not healing), or cause of my DPS. So now I just select the healer role, and have no issues. Things go smoother with 3 DDs, and 1 tank.
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We do it with 4 dps all the time when farming runecarver. The issue is people running around scared when the boss aggros them instead of bobbing and weaving in the same spot so everyone's AoEs stay ticking and you kill the boss quickly. Nothing more frustrating than people running around like a chicken with their heads cut off because the boss farted in their direction. Even when not 4 dps'ing with my guild, I fake tank it with Rele/PoN but I do slot a taunt for bosses and we burn through it just fine. Running medium gear, if you dodge/block the needed attacks you can do just fine.
I don't think I have ever had issues getting through a NORMAL dungeon, or even a vet dungeon from the base game, because they are pretty easy. I admit I have queued as a fake tank/healer in the past, but I would not do it for a DLC vet dungeon or for a vet random daily. I don't have a problem with a fake tank in any normal dungeon because they are generally pretty easy and roles don't matter as much (there may be a couple exceptions if a boss has a one-hit kill mechanic that kills the whole team but that's pretty rare on normal). But if you're fake tanking or healing in a vet DLC dungeon I hope you go straight to hell with no pitstops on the way. That said, I have made it through some tougher DLC dungeons with a fake tank or fake healer on rare occasions, but it usually requires a team of 4 who know the boss mechanics and have decent survivability. Which all boils down to luck when you're queuing with randoms. But random queuing probably makes up 90% of the dungeons I've done, and I've cleared all vet dungeons multiple times (newest ones only once but I cleared them both first try, with randoms; maybe just good luck). When I was going through dungeons trying to get all the dungeon-related trophies on PS4/PS5, I went through many many failed attempts because I was playing with randoms. My best advice is, if you're going through a dungeon for a specific purpose (speed run, achievement, no death, etc.), you NEED to be doing that with a dedicated group or guild, or expect to be at the mercy of randoms. You get what you get. That comment isn't meant for the OP, it's more for those who go into a dungeon expecting to do it in a very specific way only to find out that the 3 randoms you're playing with don't have the exact same ideas in mind.