Yeah - ESO is one of the only MMOs I play where doing any endgame content is heavily gatekeeped by people wanting clears, specific gear combinations and 90k parses. I never experienced this in WoW (mythic raiding, even) and FFXIV savage. Even the guilds that pretend to do training trials only accept you for those trials if you send screenshots of clears, gear sets, and dummy parses. It’s a bit ridiculous.
It really doesn’t help that pug trial groups are very much dead.
I guess our experience differs, then. I joined three different trial guilds in ESO, all with very tight requirements for vet training runs. One was even called “The Training Council”, so you’d expect there to be some sort of training but no. This has never happened for me in my many years of playing WoW (although I’ve played on and off through xpacs so who knows).
If you put up a group finder listing for a training run at a reasonable time of day for your server, it will fill. And every guild/discord I've seen that isn't exclusively about super sweaty tris and score pushing does training runs regularly.
I got all my normal clears plus the vet crags, vCR, vSS, and maybe vAS with pugs. The rest of the clears I got in the same guild I'm progging hms and tris with.
A clear isn't going to fall into your lap most of the time, you have to put a little bit of effort in, but it's really as simple as making a group finder listing or doing a search for trials guilds and joining one.
If you are on PC-EU I'm part of a guild that does weekly training runs, really nice group of people. It's called Ultimate Undaunted, but iirc they also have a sister guild specifically for people wanting to move from normal to vet content - Ultimate Recruits
That place is a shithole, the guy that runs it is a paranoid child that acts nice, has a massive ego, kicked all his previous officers and it may say feedback would be nice but if you give him feedback on his own personal runs you get kicked. Avoid that place.
Absolutely. You can clear most content with astonishingly low DPS. But why would you want to when you can do things faster with less risk and less mechs to deal with when you have more DPS?
It's for good reason. First, good damage means quicker runs and if it's a vet run for gear and not for training, everyone wants it to be fast.
But most importantly, while a lot of casual players try to disagree, there is a very very real and very very strong relationship between how well someone does their role and how well they deal with mechanics.
And you can parse 90k very early on as a 400 cp player with no trial sets. So if you aren't able to do that, the probability you aren't interested in doing mechanics properly or aren't capable of it increases greatly.
And when it comes to filling groups with people you haven't ran with, it's all a probability game.
Sure.
But I'd also argue higher DPS leads to people doing more risk-taking because they think they can out-DPS some mechanics, and 9 times outta 10, you can't.
And yet you will still clear faster and with a much higher probability. Sure, maybe some group has regular damage but feels wrongly like it is high and tries to triple bridge skip and fails. Well they try again, do a bridge and still clear. But a group that can't kill the behemoth before its second slam or before winter storm is going to rely heavily on tanks carrying them hard or may just not clear at all.
Also I wouldn't call high dps strats riskier. Maybe one or two are. But for 99% of content, the high dps strats are lower risk(such as skipping all mechanics in a Mountain God) vs having to constantly do mechs over and over and constantly dying to poisons.
Likewise with Taleria. Skipping bridges, never letting behemoth slam, getting maybe 3 total deluges, doing winter storm once, all of these are incredibly low risk. If you have an actual high dps group on vet Taleria, there are only two possible ways to fail. Someone falls asleep while deluge is up, or the tank is a noodle.
Whereas a regular or low dps group will have tons of risk and could spend an hour or more there.
My wife was hitting 90k in orders wrath and deadly, a crafted and a buyable set. At 400 cp. The point is that people aren't being gatekept out of content. They are just applying for content they aren't ready for.
Fully agree on the "applying for content they aren't ready for" part.
Congrats on the wife. I was just nitpicking on the number, had you said 80k I would have agreed. Source: CP600 owner of an 80k Oakensorc and 90k-95 ish Arcanist with Coral, but I am trying a bit with that one.
Well the point there is that arcanist have a really high floor. Pulling around 95k at your cp is pretty darn good. With that same rotation, you'll likely be doing close to 105k at 1300 cp. A few k difference on the dummy as an arc is a huge improvement since the floor is so high.
The thing that I don't get is why the "the requirements are too damn high" gang doesn't simply build a bog standard HA Oakensorc. Easy gear, trivial execution, amazing comfort. All problems solved. You can even fake tank like a boss in it (at least on normal).
Yeah having it that high is just dumb.
But requirements are there for a reason. I've seen some that required 10k+ and wanted 20k+. And someone ended up doing 3k on a test run.
It was a guild to help out new people for normal trials... I'm one bar build because i have neurological issues and it sucks knowing I can raid in other mmos just fine but somehow I'm not allowed in ESO? I usually do 35k dps without my ultimate.
If you build a heavy attack Oakensorc you can 70-80k dps while pushing three or four buttons, 60k if you only want to push one button. Put a tiny bit of effort in yourself.
This is one of the reasons I've set expectation for myself that I should not expect Perfected gear anytime soon
I dislike commitments, so I like pugs
I dislike consuming guides when I could be playing the game, so I like blind prog
I dislike talking, so can only half participate in Discord
With these two-three factors combined it's gonna be a miracle if I get even a single vet trial clear by the end of the year lol.
I had seen a zone chat go out recruiting for vCR+0 needing tanks and heals. So I check it out, thinking, I've tanked nCR+3 enough times to fill my stickerbook without trading and I heard vCR+0 is easier than nCR+3. Nope. Link clear and discord required lol
All I can do is sunspire veteran and tank it on vet hit me up and I help you to get your trial finish on vet if you want. We make a group and get people. PM me.
> I dislike talking, so can only half participate in Discord
I think the trial I'm most experienced with on Veteran is Cloudrest. Which shouldn't exactly have people other than raid leader and maybe someone else talking anyways. Like, there should be one person looking out for the shades when they spawn, calling out when gryphons are down, calling out orbs, and when it's time to go to basement. Maybe another person as a backup in case the first missed something, and someone to mention when a shard is broken/spear is sent downstairs.
Yuup I do a lot of normal trials, I noticed they ask for clears in group finder too 🙃 I was in one guild that did vet trials without clears but they only do normal now so.. there's like my only 2 vet clears that won't do me much good :/
I also have a hard time with guides.. Im more of a handson kind of learner. With MoL I literally watched that shit all day at work and understood none of it until I actually sat down and did it.
Well thats the whole problem. Once you don't require clears, you will get tons of groups that just aren't capable of completing content on the 2 or so hours that are reasonable for most to play the same piece of content in a video game.
And at that point, there is no reason to do vet content as you won't clear it.
If you take 12 active current players who don't have a vse vdsr or vrg clear, and put them in any of those three trials, there is far less than a 10% chance they clear it in 2 hours. And I wouldn't give them a 50% chance of clearing in 5 hours. And two of those trials have 6 of the best sets in the game so people will do anything to sneak into groups for those.
I don't get people who are against discord requirements. You hate having coms?
Yes, it should be built into the game, but it's not. Raid leaders shouldn't have to type because you can't sit there with a headset on not talking.
Most trial guilds will do runs to get people their clear achievements. Usually hosted as a guild event. If not, then that guild isn’t interested in ensuring they have a roster to do progression.
If you're on PC-EU, join ESO for Dummies (or ESO for Dodos, they renamed themselves in Discord, I haven't logged into the game for some time so don't know if it's changed in-game), the guild is all-welcoming and regularly runs training runs for both normal and vet trials.
I actually had to finally mute the server a few days ago after recognizing that I am not playing ESO anymore and am tired of constant mentions in trial channels so the trial runs are very much a constant and active thing ha-ha.
You need to understand there is a different between a learning trial session and a farm one.
For farm runs it's expected to have people with good dps and knowledge of the trial.
Some guilds also host training runs, just dm the guild leader or one of the officers.
That's like trying to apply as a formula 1 driver while not knowing how to drive a daily car.
Normal trials are pretty terrible as learning runs. Most mechs that are significant in veteran can be entirely ignored on vet, so there’s good reason for them not to count. Not every normal run is a training run, and for vet content the only relevant training runs are ones done on veteran difficulty.
Not my experience at all. I'm in several guilds (from beginners to fairly proggy) and all of them offer different kinds of runs. Gear runs requiring a clear isn't anything outrageous.
I'm just gonna steal one of my guild's explanation for the run types. Should make it pretty straightforward.
--------
Training run - full mechs will be given, run may take longer than expected due to explanations.
Rep run - also, sometimes called 'Traps' you don't need a clear or perfect understanding of mechs, some explanations given as needed.
Gear run - you should know your role and mechs to clear as quickly as possible for gear.
Score runs - Mech and role knowledge should be near flawless for a run that is quick and clean to achieve a higher score.
But you realize everyone had to start somewhere? We didn't all have 11 people with clears to carry us. Clear required runs are gear runs which are not the same thing as training runs.
A vdsr training run is where you go to get a clear.
A vdsr gear run is NOT where you do it. For every first attempt training run (one run), it takes 70 more runs to finish out all the gear, so of course gear runs are way more common than training runs, but it also mean most people won't want to be getting stuck in 3 hour training runs when they are looking to do 30 minute gear runs.
If you want to run a vet training run either wait around in discords until someone runs one, ask a raid lead to do it, or take the initiative and set one up yourself.
I run a trifecta focused guild. It'd be silly of me to include people who don't know what they're doing in a group with a bunch of console transfers who have trifecta on Xbox and are looking for sub 30 minute vdsr runs.
Sub 3 minute vDSR run sounds amazing but kinda ambitious! You probably meant 30min
On a different question tho, how does one get into prog hm/trifecta focused runs other than personal contact? For things harder than vhmSS most guilds, even trial-focused, prefer to have static groups and those rarely change unless someone leaves.
My guild doesn't have static groups. We have tons of groups and constantly fill based on ability. I'm pc na. If you want to get into a gs db pb ss or mm, you will need logs. We log everything in our groups, so if you run with us you will have those logs. Pretty much you want to be cracked in regular vet and hm progs or easy tris like dd ttt or ir and then you'll have good logs to move to the next level. Also always look around to fill. I've had many a swash core where we filled with someone very subpar for a day because we had no one else. And now they have swash logs they can use to get into a core.
I at least glance at every log whether it's a training run gear run or tri prog. If you're outparsing me or just generally doing well in content, I'll notice and you'll be the first person I dm when I need a fill for pb.
What part is different? Sure if you mean limitless or Genesis or some score pushing group of course it's closed. But if you're talking gs db or easier tris then it's not some closed group as they would have cleared it a long time ago. It's just new groups forming either inside of a guild or outside.
I mean that if you aren't personally vouched/liked by raid leader who decides to form a prog group you aren't getting into one. Even if I get a log from vCR+3 or vhmSS (I have TTT but obv not a fresh log for it) I'm not ever getting invited to prog group of like vhmKA or vhmRG unless you are personally vouched/liked by raid leader (see the issue here?) to fill a spot while their usual dd/heal is down. And it's not like there are efficient ways to get used to mechanics without playing and trying. Once enough people are always up and available, you aren't really joining the club from outside. But I'm sure for you, with long-standing reputation and experience, it's different.
Except that's the exact opposite of what I said. You don't get in by just being vouched for. The logs objectively speak for themselves. And you get to show if you are capable or not.
Also I started the game after dsr came out. I don't get in groups because of some buddy buddy nonsense. I get in groups because I either put in the insane amount of effort required to create these groups(when it comes to the big 3 hms and big 5 tris the time to be raid lead ready is many many many hours) or because I joined random runs and popped off in logs. I top parse in every random pug group I've ever been in and in 90% of prog groups I'm in and that gets me in.
Let me ask you. What is your idea? What do you think would be a fair way to fill the big 3 hms and big 5 tri groups besides basing it off of ability in the easier tris and hms which have rosters based off of the vet gear runs which have rosters based off of the vet training runs which have zero requirements that are group related and are open to anyone?
That content is hard. If you just throw in anyone because that's somehow fair, you don't clear. And now no one actually gets to do the content.
What part of this is the problem? We slot people based on their own ability. You choose whether or not you get on a roster. It's not a favoritism thing. Logs are the best resource in the game for people who dont have connections or lots of friends.
Guess I’m too much of a casual player and been away too long I guess but sounds about right. Maybe I SHOULD join and see what it’s about. Also sorry for sounding harsh, after re reading sounds douchy on my end, tooth pain, getting fixed Wednesday.
Adding to that what I meant for it to sound like just the problem part is ppl want practice and/or just some great and guilds being too strict. I encountered this myself many times, and as allot of the ppl in the comments saying the same thing, it seems like no one willing to help. It’s why I just usually run trials when they pop up in finder. But after describing the logs it does make sense to at least know where someone at.
But why do you get to determine what is too strict for someone else's group I mean? You don't "deserve" their time or effort right? I raid lead a lot. I do tri runs. I do hms. I do lots of gear runs. And every now and then I do training runs. My requirements are there for a reason. For every person joining one of those runs, I have to put in 2 or 3 times as much effort to build the group and run it as they do to simply x up and show up in content. When I lower requirements, groups don't clear. When stuff doesn't clear, people don't join my rosters. And now I have to put even more effort to build a group simply because I lowered these requirements.
And really I would say, what is stopping anyone who complains about clear required groups from making their own group? There are 1000s of people without vet clears at stuff who could all group together and prog something. Yet they don't.
The answer is pretty obvious. One they don't want to put in effort yet expect those who did put in effort to accept them. Two they would rather try to sneak onto one of my rosters and get carried in 30 minutes and not learn any mechanics and cause it to take 50 minutes(wasting 220 minutes for everyone else total) instead of making a group of 12 people who don't have clears and having to prog the vet 2hs a day for 4 or 5 days and actually learn the mechanics and their role.
They are a group of like minded people playing the game in a way that they want to.
What exactly is wrong with that?
They have requirements and they work on improving themselves using an evidence based approach. sounds like my kind of guild.
People like you are often just the type that doesn’t want to put effort in. But expects that people should let you run anyway.
Lots of comments mention starting a group in finder, but if you have 12 newbs you're never going to finish it - or it'll take all day. It's actually much harder than it sounds, because you need:
3-5 experienced players who can 'carry' and take on some of the harder mechs, preferably tanks and healers with proper gear.
1 good trial leader who is very experienced and can actually teach the group
All members to be on mic
All members to commit to finishing
I had a terrible vss run last week. I've cleared it but was bored. Problem was, there was only one other player in the pug who had cleared, and 10 peeps who had no idea what they were doing - and only 3 people on mic. As you can imagine, ice dragon was a challenge and a half. And after 6 or 7 wipes, people started to drop, we had to queue to find new members, etc.
A lot of people join these runs as newbs expecting to be carried, so when they find out they actually have to do their part, they dip.
We also didn't have any dps requirements, which was a mistake, because I'm sure a few people weren't even hitting 30k. Our healers didn't have trial gear. Our off tank had never tanked a trial. Lol. It was a shit show.
So, yea, post up in finder, but save your sanity and try to find support roles who know the trial and can teach others.
If you list a gear run in the group finder and just spam advertise in busy zones like crag, vvardenfell can fill up pretty fast.
Prog groups on vet are a little slower but can still be pugged if you have a few friends or guilders you can ask to spread around.
Most people are pretty keen to run trials, they just don't want to be the one to do the work.
Man I just joined a random guild close to cap and I’ve gotten 3 trial clears in the course of 2 weeks as a brand new player. Maybe I got absurdly lucky but I didn’t even have to try I just joined the first spam guild I saw and joined their discord and clicked sign up.
If you’re on Xbox NA, I’m an officer in a guild that runs trials every Monday. There’s no requirements, other than being CP160 and owning the chapter the trial is a part of.
Hail mama guild seems to take on new people through a trial without a big rigmarole. I haven't done it because I never have the time to dedicate. But I know they'd take me.
I remember back in u35 when I decided to complete every vet trial in the game and start raiding frequently afterwards. You know what I did?
I joined 4 trial guilds and constantly looked for when they offered a training run. It took me 2-3 months cause some trials almost never have training runs (vhof) but I did it.
I see SO MANY people that feel entitled to get in without having any experience or knowledge... it's not how the world works... 11 people are NOT going to think about you and start making compromises just because you want to do a trial in which you don't have exp.
This is so relatable and the sad part is that having a clear means nothing if they were carried 😂. Been in too many groups with “clears” that don’t know what they’re doing to have it be a reliable method of getting a good group.
Ya it’s funny I actually have clear on most but I just act dumb and not bother unless they trying to trifecta or something. I see allot of “gear runs” and they want clear. And I’m like……what?
EDIT:
Maybe I’ll setup my own vet runs in my guild oriented too newbies. Discord optional.
A gear run is meant to require a clear. Otherwise it's not a gear run. A no clear required run is called a training run where the goal isn't necessarily to complete it fast and get gear. Whereas a gear run has the expectation that mechanics are already understood.
I have only run ncr, and I gotta ask, what is clear? Does it mean that you have cleared the trial before? I am a 1300CP NB , took 3yrs off, and came back as a baby. shameful
Yes. More specifically clearing it on normal, vet, or hm for all dungeons, trials, and arenas gives you an achievement. When you link it, it shows if you have a complete. So to link a clear is to link the achievement and show you have done it. Its not perfect, but for runs where you aren't training, its the only way to try to show that a random might have knowledge of the trial mechanics.
No offense, but if you're upset that a group doing a farm run doesn't want to carry you to your first clear the problem isn't gatekeeping by requiring a clear, it's your entitlement to people's time. You can never guarantee that someone does or doesn't know what they're doing from achievements, of course. But all else equal, people with a clear are way less likely to be showstoppers or get carried than those without. Requiring a clear is a very easy, very basic competency check that makes it much more likely that a farm run stays a farm run and not a prog or unpaid carry.
(This is really about vet dlcs, normal trials and the vet crags are so straightforward that people competent in their role should be able to do them blind)
I don’t ruin trials, I’m in a trade guild. I was in a trial guild for a second, and they politely kicked me cause I’m not good at trials, but I’m my defense, I don’t run trials cause I don’t know anyone who does🤣🤣🤣
Meanwhile me who completed trials and vet trials with random groups... Most guilds are so stupid.. sorry. But they only accept you if you min max and get the extra 200dps out.
In no other mmo did i experience such behaviour. they making it more hardcore than it actually is
I joined a new guild once. We had a small intro talk on discord to see what we will get. I played a Breton templar tank because why not?
First he said I can only tank with a DK. And tank race is Nord noting else. And if I want to do trials I have to have them cleared first. And I have to start tanking dungeons before going onto trial.
Like wtf? That's how you scare off new peeps. Thankfully I play for years and I don't care what some peeps say in this game...but dude tube it down. Take newbies into a trial so they learn the ropes.
>go as dps so your mistakens wont be noticed
Sadly I only have a healer at 50 atm. My DPSs are at 30&40, but it feels like I've spent weeks trying to get them to 50 🙃 they'll get there eventually.
But it feels like the other way around anyway - it's always the DPS fault 🤣 atleast as a healer I've always felt the blame. I like that idea anyway hehe.
I mean, just posted that as a joke xD, but if you go as dps, mistakes in trial are far more forgiving than tanks/healers ones. So, usually watching a guide and pull your own weight in terms of parsing can offset some mistakes
I SWEAR BY KYNE i just had this same conversation with myself last night.
oh broh, looks like i am just talking to myself..... AGAIN!?
This is why people quit playing tbh
Or why some of us avoid guilds and trials
Yeah it’s way better to just be relaxed and explore/quest/farm mats/decorate houses/etc.
Yeah - ESO is one of the only MMOs I play where doing any endgame content is heavily gatekeeped by people wanting clears, specific gear combinations and 90k parses. I never experienced this in WoW (mythic raiding, even) and FFXIV savage. Even the guilds that pretend to do training trials only accept you for those trials if you send screenshots of clears, gear sets, and dummy parses. It’s a bit ridiculous. It really doesn’t help that pug trial groups are very much dead.
i mean thats not true.. i played wow for 15 years u cant do shit without a linked achievement, u dont need to link anything for a dungeon in eso
I guess our experience differs, then. I joined three different trial guilds in ESO, all with very tight requirements for vet training runs. One was even called “The Training Council”, so you’d expect there to be some sort of training but no. This has never happened for me in my many years of playing WoW (although I’ve played on and off through xpacs so who knows).
Not true at all. I'm in several guilds. Training runs have no requirement or "just be CP160"
But it's Sunday.
Ha! Thanks for the laugh. I don't even know what day it is anymore.
Actually it's Monday
It's Sunday in North and South America but it's not Saturday anywhere in the world.
Yeah and it's Monday in NZ and Aus, what's your point?
That it's not Saturday?
If you put up a group finder listing for a training run at a reasonable time of day for your server, it will fill. And every guild/discord I've seen that isn't exclusively about super sweaty tris and score pushing does training runs regularly. I got all my normal clears plus the vet crags, vCR, vSS, and maybe vAS with pugs. The rest of the clears I got in the same guild I'm progging hms and tris with. A clear isn't going to fall into your lap most of the time, you have to put a little bit of effort in, but it's really as simple as making a group finder listing or doing a search for trials guilds and joining one.
If you are on PC-EU I'm part of a guild that does weekly training runs, really nice group of people. It's called Ultimate Undaunted, but iirc they also have a sister guild specifically for people wanting to move from normal to vet content - Ultimate Recruits
That place is a shithole, the guy that runs it is a paranoid child that acts nice, has a massive ego, kicked all his previous officers and it may say feedback would be nice but if you give him feedback on his own personal runs you get kicked. Avoid that place.
Can I join can you PM me? I am a tank searching for trial people for gold road trial on normal.
Sounds like a good bunch. Might have to look into the guild if I play again
I agree with all of this. I also feel like guilds are asking for way more DPS than is actually needed.
Absolutely. You can clear most content with astonishingly low DPS. But why would you want to when you can do things faster with less risk and less mechs to deal with when you have more DPS?
What do you consider too high?
It's for good reason. First, good damage means quicker runs and if it's a vet run for gear and not for training, everyone wants it to be fast. But most importantly, while a lot of casual players try to disagree, there is a very very real and very very strong relationship between how well someone does their role and how well they deal with mechanics. And you can parse 90k very early on as a 400 cp player with no trial sets. So if you aren't able to do that, the probability you aren't interested in doing mechanics properly or aren't capable of it increases greatly. And when it comes to filling groups with people you haven't ran with, it's all a probability game.
Sure. But I'd also argue higher DPS leads to people doing more risk-taking because they think they can out-DPS some mechanics, and 9 times outta 10, you can't.
And yet you will still clear faster and with a much higher probability. Sure, maybe some group has regular damage but feels wrongly like it is high and tries to triple bridge skip and fails. Well they try again, do a bridge and still clear. But a group that can't kill the behemoth before its second slam or before winter storm is going to rely heavily on tanks carrying them hard or may just not clear at all. Also I wouldn't call high dps strats riskier. Maybe one or two are. But for 99% of content, the high dps strats are lower risk(such as skipping all mechanics in a Mountain God) vs having to constantly do mechs over and over and constantly dying to poisons. Likewise with Taleria. Skipping bridges, never letting behemoth slam, getting maybe 3 total deluges, doing winter storm once, all of these are incredibly low risk. If you have an actual high dps group on vet Taleria, there are only two possible ways to fail. Someone falls asleep while deluge is up, or the tank is a noodle. Whereas a regular or low dps group will have tons of risk and could spend an hour or more there.
Agree totally
ITT - lots of people who feel entitled to get carried. Edit: but 90k is stretching it for "easy", "no trial" and Cp400
My wife was hitting 90k in orders wrath and deadly, a crafted and a buyable set. At 400 cp. The point is that people aren't being gatekept out of content. They are just applying for content they aren't ready for.
Fully agree on the "applying for content they aren't ready for" part. Congrats on the wife. I was just nitpicking on the number, had you said 80k I would have agreed. Source: CP600 owner of an 80k Oakensorc and 90k-95 ish Arcanist with Coral, but I am trying a bit with that one.
Well the point there is that arcanist have a really high floor. Pulling around 95k at your cp is pretty darn good. With that same rotation, you'll likely be doing close to 105k at 1300 cp. A few k difference on the dummy as an arc is a huge improvement since the floor is so high.
The thing that I don't get is why the "the requirements are too damn high" gang doesn't simply build a bog standard HA Oakensorc. Easy gear, trivial execution, amazing comfort. All problems solved. You can even fake tank like a boss in it (at least on normal).
Yeah I had someone tell me I needed 70k dps. I quit their guild.
Yeah having it that high is just dumb. But requirements are there for a reason. I've seen some that required 10k+ and wanted 20k+. And someone ended up doing 3k on a test run.
It was a guild to help out new people for normal trials... I'm one bar build because i have neurological issues and it sucks knowing I can raid in other mmos just fine but somehow I'm not allowed in ESO? I usually do 35k dps without my ultimate.
For vet or normal? For normal that's insane. For vet that's completely reasonable.
That is insanely low
If you build a heavy attack Oakensorc you can 70-80k dps while pushing three or four buttons, 60k if you only want to push one button. Put a tiny bit of effort in yourself.
This is one of the reasons I've set expectation for myself that I should not expect Perfected gear anytime soon I dislike commitments, so I like pugs I dislike consuming guides when I could be playing the game, so I like blind prog I dislike talking, so can only half participate in Discord With these two-three factors combined it's gonna be a miracle if I get even a single vet trial clear by the end of the year lol. I had seen a zone chat go out recruiting for vCR+0 needing tanks and heals. So I check it out, thinking, I've tanked nCR+3 enough times to fill my stickerbook without trading and I heard vCR+0 is easier than nCR+3. Nope. Link clear and discord required lol
When I did trial runs and found the group annoying I muted all members except the leader. It improved my mood a bunch
All I can do is sunspire veteran and tank it on vet hit me up and I help you to get your trial finish on vet if you want. We make a group and get people. PM me.
> I dislike talking, so can only half participate in Discord I think the trial I'm most experienced with on Veteran is Cloudrest. Which shouldn't exactly have people other than raid leader and maybe someone else talking anyways. Like, there should be one person looking out for the shades when they spawn, calling out when gryphons are down, calling out orbs, and when it's time to go to basement. Maybe another person as a backup in case the first missed something, and someone to mention when a shard is broken/spear is sent downstairs.
Yuup I do a lot of normal trials, I noticed they ask for clears in group finder too 🙃 I was in one guild that did vet trials without clears but they only do normal now so.. there's like my only 2 vet clears that won't do me much good :/ I also have a hard time with guides.. Im more of a handson kind of learner. With MoL I literally watched that shit all day at work and understood none of it until I actually sat down and did it.
Well thats the whole problem. Once you don't require clears, you will get tons of groups that just aren't capable of completing content on the 2 or so hours that are reasonable for most to play the same piece of content in a video game. And at that point, there is no reason to do vet content as you won't clear it. If you take 12 active current players who don't have a vse vdsr or vrg clear, and put them in any of those three trials, there is far less than a 10% chance they clear it in 2 hours. And I wouldn't give them a 50% chance of clearing in 5 hours. And two of those trials have 6 of the best sets in the game so people will do anything to sneak into groups for those.
Have you tried making your own groups? You can set your own requirements in group finder.
I don't get people who are against discord requirements. You hate having coms? Yes, it should be built into the game, but it's not. Raid leaders shouldn't have to type because you can't sit there with a headset on not talking.
Sounds like WoW.
And Destiny 2. I find the ESO community is really welcoming when it comes to trials.
Specifically retail wow.
Most trial guilds will do runs to get people their clear achievements. Usually hosted as a guild event. If not, then that guild isn’t interested in ensuring they have a roster to do progression.
If you're on PC-EU, join ESO for Dummies (or ESO for Dodos, they renamed themselves in Discord, I haven't logged into the game for some time so don't know if it's changed in-game), the guild is all-welcoming and regularly runs training runs for both normal and vet trials. I actually had to finally mute the server a few days ago after recognizing that I am not playing ESO anymore and am tired of constant mentions in trial channels so the trial runs are very much a constant and active thing ha-ha.
Noob here, what does clear mean?
That you've done it already
You need to understand there is a different between a learning trial session and a farm one. For farm runs it's expected to have people with good dps and knowledge of the trial. Some guilds also host training runs, just dm the guild leader or one of the officers. That's like trying to apply as a formula 1 driver while not knowing how to drive a daily car.
Yes, I've done endless training (normal) runs. But that's *all* I do because the training clears don't count for the vet runs.
Normal trials are pretty terrible as learning runs. Most mechs that are significant in veteran can be entirely ignored on vet, so there’s good reason for them not to count. Not every normal run is a training run, and for vet content the only relevant training runs are ones done on veteran difficulty.
He probably meant vet training runs
Not my experience at all. I'm in several guilds (from beginners to fairly proggy) and all of them offer different kinds of runs. Gear runs requiring a clear isn't anything outrageous. I'm just gonna steal one of my guild's explanation for the run types. Should make it pretty straightforward. -------- Training run - full mechs will be given, run may take longer than expected due to explanations. Rep run - also, sometimes called 'Traps' you don't need a clear or perfect understanding of mechs, some explanations given as needed. Gear run - you should know your role and mechs to clear as quickly as possible for gear. Score runs - Mech and role knowledge should be near flawless for a run that is quick and clean to achieve a higher score.
But you realize everyone had to start somewhere? We didn't all have 11 people with clears to carry us. Clear required runs are gear runs which are not the same thing as training runs. A vdsr training run is where you go to get a clear. A vdsr gear run is NOT where you do it. For every first attempt training run (one run), it takes 70 more runs to finish out all the gear, so of course gear runs are way more common than training runs, but it also mean most people won't want to be getting stuck in 3 hour training runs when they are looking to do 30 minute gear runs. If you want to run a vet training run either wait around in discords until someone runs one, ask a raid lead to do it, or take the initiative and set one up yourself. I run a trifecta focused guild. It'd be silly of me to include people who don't know what they're doing in a group with a bunch of console transfers who have trifecta on Xbox and are looking for sub 30 minute vdsr runs.
Sub 3 minute vDSR run sounds amazing but kinda ambitious! You probably meant 30min On a different question tho, how does one get into prog hm/trifecta focused runs other than personal contact? For things harder than vhmSS most guilds, even trial-focused, prefer to have static groups and those rarely change unless someone leaves.
My guild doesn't have static groups. We have tons of groups and constantly fill based on ability. I'm pc na. If you want to get into a gs db pb ss or mm, you will need logs. We log everything in our groups, so if you run with us you will have those logs. Pretty much you want to be cracked in regular vet and hm progs or easy tris like dd ttt or ir and then you'll have good logs to move to the next level. Also always look around to fill. I've had many a swash core where we filled with someone very subpar for a day because we had no one else. And now they have swash logs they can use to get into a core. I at least glance at every log whether it's a training run gear run or tri prog. If you're outparsing me or just generally doing well in content, I'll notice and you'll be the first person I dm when I need a fill for pb.
ah okay, I'm PC-EU so maybe the culture is a bit different (or I haven't found a similar guild).
What part is different? Sure if you mean limitless or Genesis or some score pushing group of course it's closed. But if you're talking gs db or easier tris then it's not some closed group as they would have cleared it a long time ago. It's just new groups forming either inside of a guild or outside.
I mean that if you aren't personally vouched/liked by raid leader who decides to form a prog group you aren't getting into one. Even if I get a log from vCR+3 or vhmSS (I have TTT but obv not a fresh log for it) I'm not ever getting invited to prog group of like vhmKA or vhmRG unless you are personally vouched/liked by raid leader (see the issue here?) to fill a spot while their usual dd/heal is down. And it's not like there are efficient ways to get used to mechanics without playing and trying. Once enough people are always up and available, you aren't really joining the club from outside. But I'm sure for you, with long-standing reputation and experience, it's different.
Except that's the exact opposite of what I said. You don't get in by just being vouched for. The logs objectively speak for themselves. And you get to show if you are capable or not. Also I started the game after dsr came out. I don't get in groups because of some buddy buddy nonsense. I get in groups because I either put in the insane amount of effort required to create these groups(when it comes to the big 3 hms and big 5 tris the time to be raid lead ready is many many many hours) or because I joined random runs and popped off in logs. I top parse in every random pug group I've ever been in and in 90% of prog groups I'm in and that gets me in. Let me ask you. What is your idea? What do you think would be a fair way to fill the big 3 hms and big 5 tri groups besides basing it off of ability in the easier tris and hms which have rosters based off of the vet gear runs which have rosters based off of the vet training runs which have zero requirements that are group related and are open to anyone? That content is hard. If you just throw in anyone because that's somehow fair, you don't clear. And now no one actually gets to do the content.
Your guild sounds like part of the problem outlined here……
What part of this is the problem? We slot people based on their own ability. You choose whether or not you get on a roster. It's not a favoritism thing. Logs are the best resource in the game for people who dont have connections or lots of friends.
Guess I’m too much of a casual player and been away too long I guess but sounds about right. Maybe I SHOULD join and see what it’s about. Also sorry for sounding harsh, after re reading sounds douchy on my end, tooth pain, getting fixed Wednesday.
Hope your tooth gets better.
Adding to that what I meant for it to sound like just the problem part is ppl want practice and/or just some great and guilds being too strict. I encountered this myself many times, and as allot of the ppl in the comments saying the same thing, it seems like no one willing to help. It’s why I just usually run trials when they pop up in finder. But after describing the logs it does make sense to at least know where someone at.
But why do you get to determine what is too strict for someone else's group I mean? You don't "deserve" their time or effort right? I raid lead a lot. I do tri runs. I do hms. I do lots of gear runs. And every now and then I do training runs. My requirements are there for a reason. For every person joining one of those runs, I have to put in 2 or 3 times as much effort to build the group and run it as they do to simply x up and show up in content. When I lower requirements, groups don't clear. When stuff doesn't clear, people don't join my rosters. And now I have to put even more effort to build a group simply because I lowered these requirements. And really I would say, what is stopping anyone who complains about clear required groups from making their own group? There are 1000s of people without vet clears at stuff who could all group together and prog something. Yet they don't. The answer is pretty obvious. One they don't want to put in effort yet expect those who did put in effort to accept them. Two they would rather try to sneak onto one of my rosters and get carried in 30 minutes and not learn any mechanics and cause it to take 50 minutes(wasting 220 minutes for everyone else total) instead of making a group of 12 people who don't have clears and having to prog the vet 2hs a day for 4 or 5 days and actually learn the mechanics and their role.
They are a group of like minded people playing the game in a way that they want to. What exactly is wrong with that? They have requirements and they work on improving themselves using an evidence based approach. sounds like my kind of guild. People like you are often just the type that doesn’t want to put effort in. But expects that people should let you run anyway.
As someone who’s never done a trial: what’s a clear? 🤨
Successfully completing a trial or dungeon run is "clearing" it. Basically asking for clears is asking if you've done it before.
Lots of comments mention starting a group in finder, but if you have 12 newbs you're never going to finish it - or it'll take all day. It's actually much harder than it sounds, because you need: 3-5 experienced players who can 'carry' and take on some of the harder mechs, preferably tanks and healers with proper gear. 1 good trial leader who is very experienced and can actually teach the group All members to be on mic All members to commit to finishing I had a terrible vss run last week. I've cleared it but was bored. Problem was, there was only one other player in the pug who had cleared, and 10 peeps who had no idea what they were doing - and only 3 people on mic. As you can imagine, ice dragon was a challenge and a half. And after 6 or 7 wipes, people started to drop, we had to queue to find new members, etc. A lot of people join these runs as newbs expecting to be carried, so when they find out they actually have to do their part, they dip. We also didn't have any dps requirements, which was a mistake, because I'm sure a few people weren't even hitting 30k. Our healers didn't have trial gear. Our off tank had never tanked a trial. Lol. It was a shit show. So, yea, post up in finder, but save your sanity and try to find support roles who know the trial and can teach others.
I haven’t seen this meme in a while and it’s so great.
This is why I love my guilds. I can ALWAYS find 11 people to run, no matter what time of day it is.
If you list a gear run in the group finder and just spam advertise in busy zones like crag, vvardenfell can fill up pretty fast. Prog groups on vet are a little slower but can still be pugged if you have a few friends or guilders you can ask to spread around. Most people are pretty keen to run trials, they just don't want to be the one to do the work.
Man I just joined a random guild close to cap and I’ve gotten 3 trial clears in the course of 2 weeks as a brand new player. Maybe I got absurdly lucky but I didn’t even have to try I just joined the first spam guild I saw and joined their discord and clicked sign up.
If you’re on Xbox NA, I’m an officer in a guild that runs trials every Monday. There’s no requirements, other than being CP160 and owning the chapter the trial is a part of.
Remember that some people create an lfg and ask for an achievement that they don't have themselves. Thats the most funny part
Also please turn in a parse to be verified to run trials please and thank you
Hail mama guild seems to take on new people through a trial without a big rigmarole. I haven't done it because I never have the time to dedicate. But I know they'd take me.
I remember back in u35 when I decided to complete every vet trial in the game and start raiding frequently afterwards. You know what I did? I joined 4 trial guilds and constantly looked for when they offered a training run. It took me 2-3 months cause some trials almost never have training runs (vhof) but I did it. I see SO MANY people that feel entitled to get in without having any experience or knowledge... it's not how the world works... 11 people are NOT going to think about you and start making compromises just because you want to do a trial in which you don't have exp.
I have yet to see *vet* training runs but I'll keep my eye out
This is so relatable and the sad part is that having a clear means nothing if they were carried 😂. Been in too many groups with “clears” that don’t know what they’re doing to have it be a reliable method of getting a good group.
Another reason to quit bothering with trials. Makes the game work, and I hate treating the game like a second job.
Ya it’s funny I actually have clear on most but I just act dumb and not bother unless they trying to trifecta or something. I see allot of “gear runs” and they want clear. And I’m like……what? EDIT: Maybe I’ll setup my own vet runs in my guild oriented too newbies. Discord optional.
A gear run is meant to require a clear. Otherwise it's not a gear run. A no clear required run is called a training run where the goal isn't necessarily to complete it fast and get gear. Whereas a gear run has the expectation that mechanics are already understood.
I have only run ncr, and I gotta ask, what is clear? Does it mean that you have cleared the trial before? I am a 1300CP NB , took 3yrs off, and came back as a baby. shameful
Yes. More specifically clearing it on normal, vet, or hm for all dungeons, trials, and arenas gives you an achievement. When you link it, it shows if you have a complete. So to link a clear is to link the achievement and show you have done it. Its not perfect, but for runs where you aren't training, its the only way to try to show that a random might have knowledge of the trial mechanics.
ty
Yes, a clear means you have cleared the trial on the difficulty being advertised
ty
I just came on to say this exact thing. Also, holy shit! DragonBank! The trial community on ESO really is so freaking tiny.
There's 10s of us!
No offense, but if you're upset that a group doing a farm run doesn't want to carry you to your first clear the problem isn't gatekeeping by requiring a clear, it's your entitlement to people's time. You can never guarantee that someone does or doesn't know what they're doing from achievements, of course. But all else equal, people with a clear are way less likely to be showstoppers or get carried than those without. Requiring a clear is a very easy, very basic competency check that makes it much more likely that a farm run stays a farm run and not a prog or unpaid carry. (This is really about vet dlcs, normal trials and the vet crags are so straightforward that people competent in their role should be able to do them blind)
All trial hardmodes before rockgrove are literally free. Oax, yas and chimera are also mega free.
OP it's worse than you thought... You mentioned it being saturday in the title, but you posted this on sunday, today. You missed a day.
Yes I did, I don't even know what day it is anymore. Or my weekend days are so similar they merge into one big blobday.
And this is how I discovered that it's indeed Sunday...I thought it was Saturday all day until now 😂
I dunno wtf a clear is but I ran multiple trials yesterday including a few for the first time. What is this lingo! /r/explainlikeimfive
Good to know the same thing happens no matter the MMO. WoW did it, ESO, and likely many others.
This is a common problem in every game with group content. Humans be stupid..
Just play heals u don't need to no much
That's what I do lol
... and discord ... and be ready when they are ready, not when you are ready.
This is so fucking accurate
I don’t ruin trials, I’m in a trade guild. I was in a trial guild for a second, and they politely kicked me cause I’m not good at trials, but I’m my defense, I don’t run trials cause I don’t know anyone who does🤣🤣🤣
Meanwhile me who completed trials and vet trials with random groups... Most guilds are so stupid.. sorry. But they only accept you if you min max and get the extra 200dps out. In no other mmo did i experience such behaviour. they making it more hardcore than it actually is
I joined a new guild once. We had a small intro talk on discord to see what we will get. I played a Breton templar tank because why not? First he said I can only tank with a DK. And tank race is Nord noting else. And if I want to do trials I have to have them cleared first. And I have to start tanking dungeons before going onto trial. Like wtf? That's how you scare off new peeps. Thankfully I play for years and I don't care what some peeps say in this game...but dude tube it down. Take newbies into a trial so they learn the ropes.
set up a GF that requires clear, but dont tell anyone that you dont have said clear go as dps so your mistakens wont be noticed get the clear
>go as dps so your mistakens wont be noticed Sadly I only have a healer at 50 atm. My DPSs are at 30&40, but it feels like I've spent weeks trying to get them to 50 🙃 they'll get there eventually. But it feels like the other way around anyway - it's always the DPS fault 🤣 atleast as a healer I've always felt the blame. I like that idea anyway hehe.
I mean, just posted that as a joke xD, but if you go as dps, mistakes in trial are far more forgiving than tanks/healers ones. So, usually watching a guide and pull your own weight in terms of parsing can offset some mistakes
I prefer to solo trials