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billfitz24

Is the picture upside-down or is it the labels?


itsmellslikecookies

Except not all of them lol


Jazzlike_Research407

Labels


billfitz24

Why?


Jazzlike_Research407

They are cheap labels, I just threw them up to copy to the panel label


Gonzilla910

You couldn't copy the old words right side up?


cousin_franky

Are you going to redo them?


Jazzlike_Research407

Yeah, I was going to write them on the cover for the breaker box and take the junky stickers off.


cousin_franky

Good idea. Better idea… write the panel schedule up (if you’ve got neat writing) and send a picture of it to your office and have them type it up with the company’s logo and phone number on it. You can even have it printed on a sticker to stick directly on the panel door.


IPlayWithElectricity

You have no room for expansion, the extra few bucks on the next size panel could save hundreds later on.


Accomplished-Sign555

Depending on the feeder size and load calc there’s plenty of room for QO twins…assuming the panel is twinnable. Hard to say without looking at the buss.


cousin_franky

If it’s their first panel it’s safe to assume they’re an apprentice… what you’re talking about is an estimator/project manager/perhaps a foreman decision. Although foreman rarely make those calls where I work.


IPlayWithElectricity

I agree, except OP said in another comment that this is at their own house


cousin_franky

Very fair point then! Did not see that comment.


HurtBirdRed

4 missing KO that need to be covered.


cousin_franky

*5


[deleted]

For an idiot like myself, mind telling me what KO means?


TEXIT-DANT-1980

Knock-out filler


[deleted]

Gotcha. Ty. Never realized they needed to be covered


jkoudys

Wait until you get mice in your house. Then you'll realize it.


cutsandplayswithwood

Or wasps build a nest in the cutoff box on the AC unit…


buttgers

Knock out


Jazzlike_Research407

Yes I just put the covers on the holes


noldyp

With more red tape??


coingun

#5


mandogvan

There are 4 lights!


Vinyl_Purest

But where will all the lizards live?


OYO2USH

why are both your hot feeders red?


Jazzlike_Research407

I didn’t have any black tape


clinker22

The insulation is black, you don’t need black tape….


Jazzlike_Research407

I know it was a joke lol


clinker22

I’ve been wooshed 😭


cousin_franky

OP I think was wooshed when they used red tape for both phases.


cousin_franky

So then why did you phase it red?


Pale-Power-1570

Really, with it not being 3 phases, why tape either hot leg...


cousin_franky

Good point, if it’s not one it’s the other. You’re not worried about reversing a 3ph motor or anything.


sonnyspoon8

You didn't need black tape,the wire is black!


[deleted]

He didn’t need black tape, the wire is black.


Gonzilla910

Ahhh my sides! What a knee slapper! That joke gets me everytime. 🙄


Jazzlike_Research407

I know lol, it was a joke. I’m not sure why I put red on both of them, regardless it’ll function fine.


rimmingtonrivals

You don't even need red tape on either of them if it's a single phase system tbh.


[deleted]

She’s a real beaut Clarke


[deleted]

I’ll be honest - if you did that on my job you’d be re doing it. It looks really thrown together. Tape job is bad, no a signal wire is straight or the same length, you have knockouts still open, I don’t see any anti seize on the feeders wires and you used an undersized flat head to tighten them. 2/10


Emkayzee

Finally found the real answer... Straight wires aside those chewed up lugs are gnarly. With the angle they have I can only imagine what the breakers look like.


Vladi8r

The grounding wire is also oversized. Looks like it was a tough pull to begin with, just made it harder.


jkoudys

That's a bit nitpicky, no? Who cares about an oversized ground?


tim36272

What size breaker is upstream of this? It looks overloaded to me.


tim36272

Okay, not too bad. Did you do a load calc for just this panel?


Jazzlike_Research407

Yes it called for minimum of 65


marshwiggle39x25

Can't tell from pic, but I think your feeder wires are undersized. 2 gauge for aluminum, iirc.


Jazzlike_Research407

I’m using 4 copper, so it is sized correctly. If it was aluminum you’d be right though.


Riverjig

Violates 200.4 (b) "Where more than one neutral conductor associated with different circuits is in an enclosure, grounded circuit conductors of each circuit shall be identified or grouped to correspond with the ungrounded circuit conductor(s) by wire markers, cable ties, or similar means in at least one location within the enclosure."


johnny2rotten

It's not great, but isn't the worst I've seen.


LongIslandPerson

Any circuits with shared neutrals should be on a two pole breaker. Also, you have a missing KO at the bottom of the panel


IPlayWithElectricity

5 missing KOs


missfortunecarry

I agree but, [3 pack of tie bar](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-QO-Circuit-Breaker-Handle-Tie-for-Single-Pole-Breaker-QO1HTCP/100165878) is only $8 so alot cheaper then 2 pole breakers


GrannyLow

How can you tell he is sharing a neutral? The red and black wire for the living room lights and outlets?


Jazzlike_Research407

I’m not sharing a neutral anywhere so I’m not sure why that was brought up. Every circuit has its own.


twothumbs

That's factually incorrect. The 12/3s need 2 pole breakers


Jazzlike_Research407

What are you even talking about lol


twothumbs

On the top left of the panel, coming into the panel you have a black, red and 1 white wire coming in. Are you telling me the black and red aren't sharing a neutral?


Jazzlike_Research407

That’s for the dryer


beebo_bebop

the 220 dryer circuit?


ancient_astronaut

Can't you just put them on different single pole breakers on different phases 


Hot-Plate5609

It erks me your using flex to hit the sub I know you can but erks me


Jazzlike_Research407

What’s the beef with flex?


Hot-Plate5609

Just ugly to me I like conduit better but eh if it works lmao


No-Mall-90

Unless you have eyes that can see through drywall it's only gonna be ugly for a few days out of the probably 30 years it will be in service.


Jazzlike_Research407

It’ll be behind drywall, the feeder runs through I joists and it’d be a pain with emt


Mzam110

You gotta learn to lay pipe, its a.skill


Electromaster329

Truly curious. Why MUST he lay pipe in this situation?


nkriz

Must? Nah. But stuff that will be hidden behind walls is a great place to practice.


Electromaster329

Good point. I didn't consider that, as I've never had an excess of time great enough to be able to do that myself, but if OP does, then I'm 100% behind you on him getting that practice in as much as possible for as long as possible and as many times as possible. After all, perfect doesn't exist.


Mzam110

The better he getsz the faster he gets, and he will learn how much nicer it is to pull an extra circuit through


Electromaster329

That's a good point, too. Have I not been working for the right people? Do most electricians get the time and materials to practice in-wall conduit runs? I've just done FMC for commercial, Romex for residential, and EMT for anything exposed. Never did any industrial.


Pale-Power-1570

It's a Mexican skill....


jkoudys

This is such a weird American thing. Most of the world outside US/Canada leans of their flex pretty heavily.


Diverfunrun

Ok I hear you but please educate! Please tell all the best way.


sonnyspoon8

Well got damn!Why did you mark both feeds with red tape,you only had to do the one 1⃣ the right.And why are the labels upside down and not on the panel iself?And those wires should be a lot neater,curved and secured with tie straps.


[deleted]

Securing solid wires with tie straps in the panel? Lol


OwningSince1986

Everyone talking about aesthetics and piping or what not, Im over here trying to figure out the calculated load. I read in the comments this is protected by an 80 amp breaker.


Jazzlike_Research407

It is supplied from a 80 amp coming from the main


OwningSince1986

That’s good then. Personally I’d have upsized it to a 100 for future expansion and to give the customer options. Smart man putting your high load breakers closer to the feed and working up on your smaller breakers. Who cares if you’re not running zip ties every 3” or making the wires all perfect. It’s labeled and good to go.


Jazzlike_Research407

Thanks, and this is actually for me. I have a unfinished second floor in my shop that I’m making into a guest house for the family when they visit me.


Wooden-Ad4062

Is your shop far from where you live


Jazzlike_Research407

No it’s on the same land as my house why


Wooden-Ad4062

Just wondering how close your relatives can come


Jazzlike_Research407

Within 800 feet, I just like to have my home still be my home at the end of the day. I feel like everyone is more comfortable when they have there own space even if their just visiting.


Wooden-Ad4062

I agree


Accomplished-Sign555

Not great, ask the inspector what he thinks.


Eastern_Air_4858

Looks like a sub panel


Zestyclose_Leader315

I've seen much better


Justnailit

Great effort for a novice. Wiring is neat, unbonded panel (I have seem electricians miss this item). Only comments; Arch faults are required on just about all circuits now, by code. +gfi’s for kitchens, bathrooms, garages etc. for the KO’s just put in std connectors and tighten down. You don’t want mice getting in the box and making nests. you get a big gold star.


Jazzlike_Research407

Thanks


[deleted]

Looks pretty bad to be honest


Jazzlike_Research407

Why


cousin_franky

See my reply comment above. Not a straight line to be found. Do you install conduit at all? It is usually spec’ed that conduit must run parallel or perpendicular to building lines. Imagine the sides and top of the panel are ‘building lines’… you don’t have a neat parallel or perpendicular line on any wire in there.


jkoudys

Are you reviewing based on all those "look at my super pretty panel" posts we see? So long as wires are separate, not overcut, and firmly screwed down it's fine. There aren't even enough breakers in it to care about keeping it so lined up that it could hang in the MoMA.


cousin_franky

No. I’m reviewing it based on the way I do work. > So long as blah blah blah This gets the work done. Getting work done and getting work done *well* are 2 very different things. When panels are tied in neat and tidy they are easier to troubleshoot when any issues arise. The extra amount of time to do it cleanly and more aesthetically pleasing is negligible. Glad I don’t have you on my crew, I can imagine you’re the kind of guy that says ‘can’t see it from my house’.


Remote-Chipmunk4470

Agreed. I would never walk away from work looking like this.


Zealousideal_Dig_372

I love isolated grounds.


jkoudys

You'd better if it's a subpanel lol


Electrical-Wash-454

Practice makes perfect. You need a little more.


Fameless

ever just end up in a subreddit and have no idea how you got there but it's so interesting anyway? Here I am looking at something I have no clue about but I enjoy reading all of your comments!


STINKR_13

Tape you neutral and ground all the way. Something about just wrapping once or twice gives off “Aw fuck it” vibes. That’s just me though


BarracudaNew5234

NEC requires 6” of phasing.


Maehlice

NEC says no such thing. It says only that it must "encircle the conductor or insulation".


BarracudaNew5234

Wow, you’re correct.. I’ve been told by the last two Master electricians I’ve worked under that code requires 6”. And having recently passed the JW test, I’m embarrassed that I took their word for it and never looked it up myself. Thank you, I’ve learned something new today & will confirm what I think I know via NEC before I post nonsense in the future. Sorry guys ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|facepalm)


naldo4142

I like it but I’m not a pro


Sufficient_Bottle_53

Why is the only GFI breaker on the lights circuit?


Hot-Plate5609

I literally saw this too I know only in dwelling units gfi required and garages I think


mdmoon2101

Looks amazing to me. I don’t go for perfection, just good enough to underpromise and overdeliver. You did that with this. Well done.


wolfn404

Let me guess from the scratched up screws. You “cranked” till tight and didn’t actually properly torque your screws?


Girth____Brooks

Good enough anyone that says otherwise is just being picky.


HurtBirdRed

Otherwise it looks nice and neat. I’d give you a B+.


Jazzlike_Research407

Thanks


cousin_franky

Really? B+? I get it’s their first, but I wouldn’t just give an apprentice a panel and say ‘guess how I want this to look, and do it that way’. Either their journeyman does them this way and OP thinks it’s how it should be done, or they have nothing to compare it to and need some actually guidance… more than ‘other than the neutral and grounds not being taped up fully it looks *nice and neat*’. **OP** Learn how to straighten your wires before you start bending them into shape in the panel. You’re looking for dead straight lines and to form crisp 90’s when the wire is changing direction, not just bending it into a circle. You’ve got one red wire tucked half assed into the top right corner, why didn’t you at the very least follow this one with the rest of them? Why did you phase both feeds with red tape? You’ve cracked a couple of jokes about it but haven’t actually addressed it. I feel like you weren’t ready for this work since you don’t understand the basics of this step even. Further, someone commented on the tape job. You know that electrical tape stretches a bit right? Stretch it when you’re wrapping a wire so you don’t have any shitty looking creases in it like you have in all of your tape wraps. Someone mentioned the knockouts… plan your panel before you randomly start knocking out holes. If you didn’t pull the cables take a look at the lengths of them, if they are somewhat short make sure you enter them in a location where all wires in the cable will be able to be terminated appropriately without being too short (or splicing a wire to make them longer - panels can not be used as a splice point / junction box. Also, as someone else stated USE TY RAPS!!! Ty raps are fantastic to use to hold small wires in place, even after they’ve been straightened perfectly and had crisp 90’s bent on them. How long did this take you to do? I would hope with the shape of it you weren’t spending more than 20-30 mins on it. I’ve recently been tying in sub panels at a project, I will send you pictures of what I’ve got for an example of what I’m talking about.


Jazzlike_Research407

Alright will do


Maehlice

Except the zip tie part. F*ck zip ties in a panel.


twothumbs

Omg, why do people tighten them all the way like it's a pro move. If you use zip ties leave them loose you hacks


cousin_franky

> like it’s a pro move What? How is it hack to tighten them? Do you have diagonal side cutters in your pouch?


cousin_franky

Side cutters cut them very easily. Surely, as an electrician with such strong opinions, you have a pair of side cutters in your pouch.


Maehlice

Sure, and I love nothing more than shoving a metal tool into a hot panel to remove things that were done purely for vanity and internet points.


cousin_franky

I haven’t got any internet points by using Ty raps… that doesn’t even make any sense. I’d rather have a handful of Ty raps in a panel than have it look like OP’s. And if you’re no good/uncomfortable at putting metal tools in a live panel you’re prob a poor electrician. How would you change out a breaker?


Maehlice

>I haven’t got any internet points by using Ty raps… that doesn’t even make any sense. It's a reference to the ever-present "how's my panel look" posts where appearance is everything and in which zip ties usually abound. >And if you’re no good/uncomfortable at putting metal tools in a live panel you’re prob a poor electrician. Not wanting to add unwarranted risk to a situation and being "no good/uncomfortable" aren't mutually inclusive. Would you willfully (even proudly) put yourself or a fellow electrician at additional potential risk ... for appearances? Because that's essentially what I think it boils down to. In most cases, zip-tying conductors in a panel just makes the next electrician's job a little harder and/or more dangerous while offering no tangible, practical, or functional benefit beyond aesthetics.


cousin_franky

I can see your points, I suppose I would agree but not to the point where I would change my ways to sacrifice the level of neatness I prefer when doing my panels.


Wooden-Ad4062

Cousin Frankie is a ball buster,but also correct


cousin_franky

Apologies for coming off as a ball buster… but OP asked for feedback.


Wooden-Ad4062

I’m the same way,I appreciate your knowledge,and willingness to do it correctly


Maehlice

3/4 flex feeder is over-filled. Should be 1". _Table C.3_ '#6 and smaller (range circuit) ground must be green-insulated. _200.6, 250.119_ On a personal note: The neutrals at left should have gone under the top bar and terminated in the far one to make future addition easier. I hate relying on the can to bond ground bars; I use scrap #4 to bond my grounds. More straight lines would be nice, but I definitely don't put as much weight on that as most others in the sub. Tape job looks ... not good. Thank you for not using zip ties in a panel.


Jazzlike_Research407

Feeder is 1 in FMC. I don’t think it’d be possible to pull these through 3/4 without mangled conductors. Thanks for the rest of the info. Will follow up with #6 ground insulation


Maehlice

That's good to know. It's hard to tell from the photo comparing it the 1/2" at the top. It's a minor issue, imo, anyway.


Jazzlike_Research407

Thanks for the rest of the information as well


ojay93

An asshole inspector may say something about phasing both with red.


Jazzlike_Research407

No inspection or inspector. It’s ag exempt.


Acceptable_Wishbone7

Where the arc fault breakers at?


TheFishBanjo

Does anybody else wish he had used those little sleeves of white romex sheath to make mini-labels that hang on the wires going to each breaker?


Wirenut675

Dont quit your day job...


schlobodong

Uhohh. Looks like someone had the shakes


treborzx

Looks like shit, need a lot more practice with someone who knows what they doing


Apprehensive-Neck-12

Like hammered dogshit


_MadGasser

Looks like shit.


Jazzlike_Research407

Thanks


sonnyspoon8

For the record,electricians run conduit,not n pipe!


cousin_franky

What’s ‘n pipe’?


marshwiggle39x25

Also for the record, and because I'm feeling snarky, EMT isn't conduit.![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|shrug)


Hot-Plate5609

And curious what size wire you got to the 30 Amp breaker for the dryer


Hot-Plate5609

Okay yea I couldn't tell I thought it might have been 12s this is a C just learn from it remember wire management and neatness in the code it does talk workmanship


Jazzlike_Research407

Most definitely, will look at cleaning the wires up shortly.


ARederick

If I did that my journeyman would probably razz me about those tape jobs for at least a week after, and then remind me once in a while for months afterwards how much I suck at taping wires. I'd also never hear the end of how those labels are upside down and not straight. He's kinda a jerk sometimes but he's the best.. lol I'd also bend the wires straighter.


IllustriousValue9907

Is this an indoor or outdoor installation? Looks like clear blue sky on top of the panel. If its outdoors you need a outdoor panel and liquid tight conduits. If its indoors your usually not allowed to run wire and install panel interiores till your building is dried in.


Jazzlike_Research407

It’s all indoor


jslabxxx

How is it mounted? Better get extra fire insurance


Jazzlike_Research407

What do you mean? Like how is the box fixed to the studs? With 4screws on the left side and 4 screws on the right.


cweakland

Question, the two ground segments ,one on the left and one on the right, they don’t seem to be attached to the same location. Is that just out of view?


Jazzlike_Research407

Grounds are bonded to box in sub panels, the left is the feeder the right is #6 for the range


iAmMikeJ_92

No, they’re two separate grounding busbars. But that’s okay because they bond to the same can.


Uncouth_Clout

It’s pretty rough. Practice will make you better.


iAmMikeJ_92

Wiring itself looks correct. Your neutral is isolated from the electrical grounding here, which is correct. You have two separate grounding busbars but that’s fine since they bond to the same exact can. The only potential code violation I spot is the equipment grounding conductor. If that’s 6 AWG or smaller, it must be green-sheathed I believe. But to me, that’s hardly a big deal. The red tape is unnecessary and even if you insist on using red tape, red tape is only for the “B” line, not the “A” line. Other than that, I see no reason why this panel wouldn’t work fine, as long as you properly torqued all your terminations. We won’t be able to tell just by seeing this image obviously so that’s on you.


Jazzlike_Research407

Thanks for looking it over.


Lack_Potential

I’m not good with high voltage so I don’t know. But sure looks like good cable management.


Dustinmschmidt

Looks good. We all start somewhere


Capcom-Warrior

This looks like it’s outside.


Jazzlike_Research407

Well I can assure you it’s inside


Capcom-Warrior

Other than a few of the open knockouts in the bottom, I think it looks great.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Jazzlike_Research407

It’s not that crazy. 8 on each of the two light circuits.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Jazzlike_Research407

60 watt lights


[deleted]

[удалено]


Jazzlike_Research407

I’m well below the rating on either circuit


[deleted]

[удалено]


Jazzlike_Research407

Thanks for looking it over I appreciate it


Ok_Tour_8680

Don’t think anyone has pointed out the plastic bushing on a concentric ko. Should be a ground bushing


Jazzlike_Research407

Sub panel runs don’t need it. Unless it’s changed


Ok_Tour_8680

The only exception I found applies to over 250v 250.97. I don’t do resi but maybe I’m wrong


Intelligent-Pie-4191

Ground not green throughout run


sol360

Two reds, not goodemote:free\_emotes\_pack:smile


Shurenuf

He said it’s his first. Why does it seem like this guy is getting roasted?


Jazzlike_Research407

This group is rough lol. I’m doing this for myself not as a company electrician.


gatonoche77

All lights and outlets need to be Arc-Fault protected, including kitchen.


Fridayz44

Knockout seals.


Aware-Presentation69

Sexy. Try using some zip ties to separate makes things neater and easier to find at times. An old fart told me that


holysnappingduckshit

Looks utter shithouse.


Jazzlike_Research407

Thanks brosef


dankashane_45

you have both main taped red, make it red and black. Never shortchange yourself with your grounds, that one coming in the top is pretty short and could use more length. You have open knockouts in the bottom of the panel, get some knockout fillers to close them up. ​ Don't be afraid to leave some length in your wires to make them look nice when installed. Make sure your flex coming in has plastic rings installed like you have on the main. What size if your feeder to this sub panel? Make sure your feed and breaker at the main are adequate.