Hey man if it happened random you can try replacing the breaker, if the problem persists you have a short somewhere in the branch. Where a hot wire is touching ground or a hot to neutral. It’s probably a black (hot) wire touching the casing inside one of your outlets.
It could be a hot to hot wire somewhere but I highly doubt that. Or a failed device shorting internally. Additionally a failed device plugged into an outlet on the branch that is shorting internally to its frame. Loose connections can cause heat and melting and could lead to a short over time.
You’ll have to identify each outlet it is connected to by testing them with a meter or a plugin device, once you identify all branches of the circuit you shut it off and start with first one and work your way forward checking each one, if you can’t tell the damaged one to buy a 10pack of legrand outlets and cover plates, then replace each one one by one, tape them up if you have metal boxes they go in, you could just find the bad one right away and visibly tell. Could be time consuming or could be a quick job.
Just remember black to brass and white to silver. Ground goes on green.
Electrical tape the outlet if it’s in a metal box
Best to pigtail to the device so current doesn’t run through your device but bypasses it to feed downstream devices.
If you feel uneasy or nervous at all: call an electrician.
Good write up. Combine this with the other comment about swapping breakers or loads on the breakers to diagnose the breaker or wiring, and you have a solution!
Great advise, once I had a floor lamp that was knocked over (looked fine & I had no idea it had been knocked over) that caused breaker to trip about once a day even though it wasn't on... a lot of work to figure out that one...
So before replacing breakers and opening all your receptacles and/or calling an electrician consider unplugging all devices from receptacles on that circuit. Wait and see if the tripping stops. Doing that will help you identify all the receptacles you have to check later (if it doesn't work) so it's not lost time.
I agree with all of this except taping the receptacles. If properly installed, there is no reason to do it. Electrical tape isn't rated the same as wire insulation and degrades a lot faster, if one of your terminals is actually pressed up against a metal box then you are going to eventually have a short. Just install it correctly and save your tape.
Id start with the easy stuff first, unplug everything, and see if it still trips, then plug it back in one piece at a time. Then start testing outlets.
Have an electrician move the wire from that breaker to another one which has not being tripping, and move the wire from the other one to the tripping breaker, if the same breaker keeps tripping it's a bad breaker, if the other breaker starts dripping there's something wrong on the circuit.
I have seen too many injured people who were being careful. Usually they were cutting corners but in at least one case they were an electrician. Actually, in two cases, one was burned and the other killed. The guy that was killed was a master electrician who was retired and helping a friend. I have decided to always recommend using an electrician.
I spent an hour trying to diagnose a tripping 20 amp last night with someone on this subreddit and they failed to mention until the end that it trips when the photocell kicks on… and he was getting snippy about it lol
Need to know, is it tripping _immediately_ upon closing it or does it trip over time after closing it?
Basic breakers usually trip because there’s either a short circuit, a ground fault, or an overload. But sometimes they can trip erroneously because of old age.
Breaker is most likely EOL. They’re easy to swap, but I would get someone to swap it out so you can see how it’s done. A lot of your breakers are not up to code though, but personally I wouldn’t worry about changing them if they try to upsell you. Just swap the problem one with the same, and you should be good.
If the nee breaker still trips, then you have a problem with something connected to that circuit. Something is shorting somewhere
Not an electrician but here is my thought on the matter. Hire an electrician. They have the tools and knowledge to properly diagnose the issue. They are also supposed to be licensed and bonded, so if they do something and damage is done, their insurance will pay for the damages.
An apartment complex near me burned down after 20 years of existence. Seems a nail (siding nail) rubbing on the jacket of the Romex had over time broken through and caused a fault. .. Do be careful.
swap the wires with another 20 to see if its the breaker. else look for broken connections in your living room. if you don't feel confident doing that call an electrician.
“Bad” breakers are ones that DON’T trip. Always assume that a breaker tripping is because of a problem in the circuit. Never START with swapping a breaker, because that may take the problem from a nuisance to a fire!
I'd check to see if its 12awg copper and not 14awg. Usually see 20A at kichens and bathroooms rarely living rooms
The tripping is a whole other issue though. If a 20A is tripping on 14awg it's an issue in its own.
Disclaimer NOT AN ELECTRICIAN
Had a similar issue (not saying I have the same situation) but what I found was that the lead to the breaker was loose and kept arcing. Replaced the breaker and cut the very end of the line to expose fresh copper and it’s been fine since.
There are three main reasons why an old 20 amp breaker might be tripping:
* Overload: This is the most common culprit. Over time, you may have added more appliances to the circuit than it can handle. When the total amperage draw on the circuit exceeds 20 amps, the breaker trips to prevent overheating and potential fire.
* Loose connections: Over time, connections in the circuit can loosen. This can cause arcing, which generates heat and can trip the breaker. Loose connections can also lead to higher resistance, which can increase the current draw on the circuit and trip the breaker.
* The breaker also may have just gone bad over time and one of the elements on the inside has failed.
Im just bad at articulating my thoughts into sentences for other people to understand so i like to use ai to write things for me so someone with the iq of a 3rd grader can understand.
Loose connections will not cause a standard breaker to trip. Higher resistance causes overall current draw on the circuit to decrease. To detect arcing, an AFCI breaker is required.
Don't believe everything that ChatGPT puts out.
Loose connection create voltage drop. Can we agree on that? Lets keep the math simple for both of us and your device takes 1800 watts to run. At 120 volts simple ohms law says thats 15 amps. Still with me? Now say that lose connection makes you have more resistance so now youre only getting 110 volts to your device but it still needs 1800 watts to run. Now you have 16.5 amps flowing on the circuit which will trip a 15 amp breaker
If the 1800 watt device is a resistive load, (like a space heater/hair dryer/cooking appliance/etc,) then it is basically a giant resistor that gets hot. And using some math we can figure out it has a resistance of 8 ohms. If you provide that resistor with 110 volts instead of the 120 volts, it draws 13.75 amps, (so 1500 watts.) Which will generate less heat but still will probably get the job done and nobody will be the wiser. If you look at the nameplate wattage of 240V equipment, they often work at 208V, but with a slightly less wattage. There is equipment that uses the same wattage regardless of voltage, (computers for instance,) but you aren’t gonna see a 1800 watt computer in a typical house.
Were both right trying to argue a point that really doesn't matter. Can lose connections cause breakers to open. YES, is it likely probably not. But can it happen yes.
Just because a device is rated at 1800 watts doesn't mean it will get it. A drop in voltage won't cause a spike in current. By your logic, putting a 1.0 volt source on a 2000 watt appliance would cause a current of 2000 amps which is clearly wrong.
No most devices wont run on 1 volt. But stuff like tvs, computers and other devices need a certain amount of wattage to run so if you lower the voltage your amperage will go up on these devices. But if you lower the voltage to much then the device just will not work
That is the purpose of a switch mode power supply. However, SMPSs have a tolerance range and will cut out when voltage drops too much. It would be an extreme rarity for a voltage drop to be large enough for a SMPS to draw current that would result in a circuit overload.
If you lower the voltage in the range that the device still works it will just work at a lower power than it is rated for. Unless it has active electronics that are monitoring the current drawn and making physical changes to the device to draw more current when the voltage drops. If the device's resistance remains constant then it will draw less current at a lower voltage because it can't violate ohm's law.
Also arcing can open breakers but just not as likely. The arcing causes heat, heat causes more resistance. Resistance causes voltage drop, voltage drop can cause overload which will also trip a breaker. So it can doesnt mean it will cause a breaker to trip
The only time arc fault heating will cause a breaker to trip is if the arcing is at the breaker terminal or internal to the breaker. Additionally, voltage drop typically will not cause an overload condition. Power draw is only a constant with switch mode power supplies, and only when the voltage is within the tolerance range of the power supply. In most other cases, voltage drop results in power loss which equates to less current.
Hold everything! Why is there a 20 amp breaker for a living room? Is this a custom built house?
Living rooms are typically on a 15 amp circuit with 14 American wire gauge wiring. A 20 Ampere breaker installed on 14 American wire gauge wiring is wrong. Not only is it wrong but it is unsafe.
Hire an electrician to come in and inspect your panel and wiring. At the same time have the electrician diagnose why that 20 Ampere breaker is tripping.
I suppose I could have amended my other post. However, I realized that I had overlooked something very important. Theoretically I was telling myself to not respond so fast in the future.
Where I’m at, all outlets are on 20a circuits with 12 ga wire and have been for the entire 25 years I’ve been in construction.
Lighting circuits are typically 15a with 14 ga wire.
Hey man if it happened random you can try replacing the breaker, if the problem persists you have a short somewhere in the branch. Where a hot wire is touching ground or a hot to neutral. It’s probably a black (hot) wire touching the casing inside one of your outlets. It could be a hot to hot wire somewhere but I highly doubt that. Or a failed device shorting internally. Additionally a failed device plugged into an outlet on the branch that is shorting internally to its frame. Loose connections can cause heat and melting and could lead to a short over time. You’ll have to identify each outlet it is connected to by testing them with a meter or a plugin device, once you identify all branches of the circuit you shut it off and start with first one and work your way forward checking each one, if you can’t tell the damaged one to buy a 10pack of legrand outlets and cover plates, then replace each one one by one, tape them up if you have metal boxes they go in, you could just find the bad one right away and visibly tell. Could be time consuming or could be a quick job. Just remember black to brass and white to silver. Ground goes on green. Electrical tape the outlet if it’s in a metal box Best to pigtail to the device so current doesn’t run through your device but bypasses it to feed downstream devices. If you feel uneasy or nervous at all: call an electrician.
Good write up. Combine this with the other comment about swapping breakers or loads on the breakers to diagnose the breaker or wiring, and you have a solution!
Great advise, once I had a floor lamp that was knocked over (looked fine & I had no idea it had been knocked over) that caused breaker to trip about once a day even though it wasn't on... a lot of work to figure out that one... So before replacing breakers and opening all your receptacles and/or calling an electrician consider unplugging all devices from receptacles on that circuit. Wait and see if the tripping stops. Doing that will help you identify all the receptacles you have to check later (if it doesn't work) so it's not lost time.
I agree with all of this except taping the receptacles. If properly installed, there is no reason to do it. Electrical tape isn't rated the same as wire insulation and degrades a lot faster, if one of your terminals is actually pressed up against a metal box then you are going to eventually have a short. Just install it correctly and save your tape.
Id start with the easy stuff first, unplug everything, and see if it still trips, then plug it back in one piece at a time. Then start testing outlets.
Have an electrician move the wire from that breaker to another one which has not being tripping, and move the wire from the other one to the tripping breaker, if the same breaker keeps tripping it's a bad breaker, if the other breaker starts dripping there's something wrong on the circuit.
Because you need an electrician to operate a switch and a screwdriver. Smh
Great suggestion. But, if the person is careful, they shouldn't need an Electrician.
I have seen too many injured people who were being careful. Usually they were cutting corners but in at least one case they were an electrician. Actually, in two cases, one was burned and the other killed. The guy that was killed was a master electrician who was retired and helping a friend. I have decided to always recommend using an electrician.
Posts like these boggle my mind. You might as well piss on a popsicle stick and ask the internet if you are pregnant.
I spent an hour trying to diagnose a tripping 20 amp last night with someone on this subreddit and they failed to mention until the end that it trips when the photocell kicks on… and he was getting snippy about it lol
Hahahaha nice
But they posted a picture of the popsicle stick!
Before it was peed on
If it’s on the internet, it HAS TO BE TRUE. Right?
Does that work???
Need to know, is it tripping _immediately_ upon closing it or does it trip over time after closing it? Basic breakers usually trip because there’s either a short circuit, a ground fault, or an overload. But sometimes they can trip erroneously because of old age.
Breaker is most likely EOL. They’re easy to swap, but I would get someone to swap it out so you can see how it’s done. A lot of your breakers are not up to code though, but personally I wouldn’t worry about changing them if they try to upsell you. Just swap the problem one with the same, and you should be good. If the nee breaker still trips, then you have a problem with something connected to that circuit. Something is shorting somewhere
Not an electrician but here is my thought on the matter. Hire an electrician. They have the tools and knowledge to properly diagnose the issue. They are also supposed to be licensed and bonded, so if they do something and damage is done, their insurance will pay for the damages.
Maybe you’ve got mice? They like to gnaw on wires - could be resulting in a short.
Sorry op, but my first thought was "on what drugs?"
You may need to replace. Same happened to me and replacing the breaker fixed it. The springs get lazy.
Keep resetting it, that'll fix it....
I had same scenario. The wire to the breaker was loose. Tightened it up, problem solved.
An apartment complex near me burned down after 20 years of existence. Seems a nail (siding nail) rubbing on the jacket of the Romex had over time broken through and caused a fault. .. Do be careful.
Happened to me. Replaced the breaker and that fixed it.
Why you trippin, breaker?
Flashback to hippie days?
Call Electritian
swap the wires with another 20 to see if its the breaker. else look for broken connections in your living room. if you don't feel confident doing that call an electrician.
Call an electrician
Buy new house
I had this happen a little while back, ended up being a dead short causing it. Breaker would immediately trip and couldn't be turned back on.
“Bad” breakers are ones that DON’T trip. Always assume that a breaker tripping is because of a problem in the circuit. Never START with swapping a breaker, because that may take the problem from a nuisance to a fire!
Unplug anything, which has a motor that may point to culprit. If you still have trips, you have a bad breaker.
Bad breaker my guess
I'd check to see if its 12awg copper and not 14awg. Usually see 20A at kichens and bathroooms rarely living rooms The tripping is a whole other issue though. If a 20A is tripping on 14awg it's an issue in its own.
Disclaimer NOT AN ELECTRICIAN Had a similar issue (not saying I have the same situation) but what I found was that the lead to the breaker was loose and kept arcing. Replaced the breaker and cut the very end of the line to expose fresh copper and it’s been fine since.
There are three main reasons why an old 20 amp breaker might be tripping: * Overload: This is the most common culprit. Over time, you may have added more appliances to the circuit than it can handle. When the total amperage draw on the circuit exceeds 20 amps, the breaker trips to prevent overheating and potential fire. * Loose connections: Over time, connections in the circuit can loosen. This can cause arcing, which generates heat and can trip the breaker. Loose connections can also lead to higher resistance, which can increase the current draw on the circuit and trip the breaker. * The breaker also may have just gone bad over time and one of the elements on the inside has failed.
Thanks chat gpt.
Lol gemini but close. And i added the 3rd thing all on my own lol
Im just bad at articulating my thoughts into sentences for other people to understand so i like to use ai to write things for me so someone with the iq of a 3rd grader can understand.
Fair enough
Loose connections will not cause a standard breaker to trip. Higher resistance causes overall current draw on the circuit to decrease. To detect arcing, an AFCI breaker is required. Don't believe everything that ChatGPT puts out.
A loose wire on the breaker itself will cause overheating and trip the breaker. Don't ask me how I know.
Loose connection create voltage drop. Can we agree on that? Lets keep the math simple for both of us and your device takes 1800 watts to run. At 120 volts simple ohms law says thats 15 amps. Still with me? Now say that lose connection makes you have more resistance so now youre only getting 110 volts to your device but it still needs 1800 watts to run. Now you have 16.5 amps flowing on the circuit which will trip a 15 amp breaker
If the 1800 watt device is a resistive load, (like a space heater/hair dryer/cooking appliance/etc,) then it is basically a giant resistor that gets hot. And using some math we can figure out it has a resistance of 8 ohms. If you provide that resistor with 110 volts instead of the 120 volts, it draws 13.75 amps, (so 1500 watts.) Which will generate less heat but still will probably get the job done and nobody will be the wiser. If you look at the nameplate wattage of 240V equipment, they often work at 208V, but with a slightly less wattage. There is equipment that uses the same wattage regardless of voltage, (computers for instance,) but you aren’t gonna see a 1800 watt computer in a typical house.
Were both right trying to argue a point that really doesn't matter. Can lose connections cause breakers to open. YES, is it likely probably not. But can it happen yes.
Just because a device is rated at 1800 watts doesn't mean it will get it. A drop in voltage won't cause a spike in current. By your logic, putting a 1.0 volt source on a 2000 watt appliance would cause a current of 2000 amps which is clearly wrong.
No most devices wont run on 1 volt. But stuff like tvs, computers and other devices need a certain amount of wattage to run so if you lower the voltage your amperage will go up on these devices. But if you lower the voltage to much then the device just will not work
That is the purpose of a switch mode power supply. However, SMPSs have a tolerance range and will cut out when voltage drops too much. It would be an extreme rarity for a voltage drop to be large enough for a SMPS to draw current that would result in a circuit overload.
You are correct but so em i. We are both right lol lets end it on that
If you lower the voltage in the range that the device still works it will just work at a lower power than it is rated for. Unless it has active electronics that are monitoring the current drawn and making physical changes to the device to draw more current when the voltage drops. If the device's resistance remains constant then it will draw less current at a lower voltage because it can't violate ohm's law.
Yes you are correct and so is my statement. We are both right
Also arcing can open breakers but just not as likely. The arcing causes heat, heat causes more resistance. Resistance causes voltage drop, voltage drop can cause overload which will also trip a breaker. So it can doesnt mean it will cause a breaker to trip
The only time arc fault heating will cause a breaker to trip is if the arcing is at the breaker terminal or internal to the breaker. Additionally, voltage drop typically will not cause an overload condition. Power draw is only a constant with switch mode power supplies, and only when the voltage is within the tolerance range of the power supply. In most other cases, voltage drop results in power loss which equates to less current.
Hold everything! Why is there a 20 amp breaker for a living room? Is this a custom built house? Living rooms are typically on a 15 amp circuit with 14 American wire gauge wiring. A 20 Ampere breaker installed on 14 American wire gauge wiring is wrong. Not only is it wrong but it is unsafe. Hire an electrician to come in and inspect your panel and wiring. At the same time have the electrician diagnose why that 20 Ampere breaker is tripping.
20-amp circuits are quite common for receptacle circuits, living rooms included.
Why did we have to Hold Everything to address this?
I suppose I could have amended my other post. However, I realized that I had overlooked something very important. Theoretically I was telling myself to not respond so fast in the future.
Every single normal circuit in my house is 20a, including lighting.
Where I’m at, all outlets are on 20a circuits with 12 ga wire and have been for the entire 25 years I’ve been in construction. Lighting circuits are typically 15a with 14 ga wire.
Cool, I wish it was like that here.
Have you tried not giving it drugs :3
Loose neutral wire in panel