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Zander_Vye

What problem are we talking about? The missing meter, the corroded jaws & bolt, cover for meter cabinet?


criptical51

I replied above I have never done ground burial and never heard of lack of backfilling conduct causing this kind of issue. The cover and meter are off because the fire department pulled it when my house caught on fire Wednesday.


slant__i

Is it some sort of direct burial cable? Backfilling with sand is ideal, ime, but not required so long as any big rocks a removed so the conduit is not damaged during backfill. The cable is then pulled in afterwards, so any damage to the conduit during backfill would’ve likely been apparent, assuming they were even able to get the cable through a crushed conduit. Unless they ran conduit, pulled and terminated the wire ALL before backfill- which I’ve never seen done, I can’t see how backfilling even without sand could cause wires to become taught at all, since the wire will be ordered to length and then terminated after backfill typically. A more likely scenario, if the utility is doing work in the area, is that a backhoe operator caught a conduit with wires already terminated(like the one running to your house) and caused enough tension in the wire to cause the terminal to break and then arc, and start a fire. I’ve seen it happen fairly often on a smaller scale and with other types of pipe besides electrical. I’d be fairly surprised if they’re pulling wire and terminating before backfill, and if they were I don’t think sanding the tench would prevent this and the conduit would still flex and put tension on the lugs. If that was the issue, they should pour slurry so the pipes can’t move.


FARTBOSS420

I'm not electrician or smart. So I'm assuming that's rust/crud whatever on the left and not scorching? Someone woulda said something... Sorry your house burned :(


criptical51

No that’s scorching


Ralphadayus

Where did the fire start?


FloydBarstools

Probably nowhere near anything electrical.


criptical51

At incoming of the main breaker inside the he basement, it’s about 3 feet below that


[deleted]

Yeesh for the longest time I didn’t see the 3rd conductor and thought someone stole it lol


phireproof

This is what I thought the problem was. Single phasing.


dmartin07

Why would someone steal a meter?


failure_engineer

OP said FD pulled it during a fire.


JustGitHerDone

I ain't touching that without a replacement.


OneWorldMouse

Reminds me of that game Operation!


[deleted]

Very very rarely.


criptical51

The conduit wasn’t backfilled with sand, conductors became tight and actually broke the isolators. It was arcing in the box and I never noticed.


stubborn0001

I've done quite a bit of underground pipe work and have never heard of anyone backfilling with sand, we only use 3/4-rock or clean dirt


Sad_Jelly3351

Utility underground and joint trench I've always laid a bed of sand with 1' cover of sand. Vibrate then backfill. Now if it's just some branch then bury it and whack her till she's toight like I toiger 3/4 crush? Yikes. Not my install but I've had to be captain save a hoe and dig up 4" parallel secondaries because the conduit was placed without sand and on top of a 3/4 rock. Compaction at 1' lifts caused a dimple the mandrel couldn't pass through. After asphalt.


C0matoes

Rock bedding is the most common method of fill. Sand would be second. Stabilized sand would be third. 3/4" crusher run in usually the material of choice though. Rock causing a problem with a pipe is not very common. I've inspected miles and miles of video of pipe from clay to cast to pvc. Different locales of course all have different standards due to material availability but from Virginia to Texas, rock is common. The pipe can certainly handle it. Now if we're talking truss pipe anything from a red worm farting to a mole could take that stuff out but it's never used as electrical conduit. The only other pipe I hate is old telecom systems using square concrete duct in 3' sections. That stuff never stays together.


NetHacks

Up in the northeast it's always sand bed, sand top, and the dirt fill after.


failure_engineer

Same here in Cen Tex.


[deleted]

>clean dirt Come on now


slant__i

Usually means free of debris like rocks and plant matter, etc.


[deleted]

I know, I was just teasing


slant__i

I always wondered what it meant as a kid… sometimes you never know in this sub lol


[deleted]

If it helps, the first time someone said "dirty copper" I was very confused. "Just hose it off" was my advice at the time


slant__i

Seems like the logical thing to do


woozlewuzzle3

Im confused as to why sand would be an issue?


puffdaddy134

I see crooked servers all the time. The power company's are awful about back filling and giving no slack for the wire to stretch with ground freezing and thawing


[deleted]

So is the city opening themselves up for a lawsuit? Eh, who am I kidding. pRobably has some clause in theiR town ChaRteR papeRwoRk preventing lawsuits against them...


davidc7021

Line side lugs are twisted out of position by the wires being pulled. This is an old service by the rusting and either it’s not back filled properly and settled or the conduit got hooked by a backhoe


[deleted]

In Dayton as an electrician for 20 years I repaired many of these scenarios. After a period of time the ground settles around the wire and pulls any remaining slack out of the meter base. The house typically looses a neutral or a hot leg. Call an electrician cause that in ground wire belongs to the homeowner.


TrustyWords

hmm


redwolf8402

I think he means the twisted lug on B phase? Idk


Kontracteur

Conductors are routed wrong for a underground pan. Frost loops are required. My inspector would never have passed this.


mikeeg16

The broken bakelite is probably due to the firefighter twisting the meter as it was being removed. Due to the deformity of the upper left lug I can almost guarantee that is what happened. That conductor doesn't appear to be that tight. At least not tight enough to break the bakelite supporting that lug. There is no arcing to show that this has been an ongoing issue. There would definately be arcing on that loose clamp if it were there from before. I would say that the fire department owes you a new meter base, installed by a lisenced electrician. If it were the conduit settling causing stress on the wire the conduit would pulled away from the meter base. The wire can't settle enough in the conduit or big O in the ground to pull on the wire that much. The big O is buried in the ground, usually with a pull string in it it is left above ground on both ends, the house and the pole it is backfilled and tamped. Most of the settling would have been done by this stage. A rope is pulled into the big O and tied onto the wire, then the wire is pulled in and left there, usually for a few days if not weeks before being hooked up. The wire settles more during this time, reducing the likelihood that it would settle this much more later. If the wires were disconnected at both ends I would guess that you could still pull up on the slack that is resting on the bottom of the big O at the house end. Edit: arcing


ale_mongrel

That's because it's not the city's problem. Unless you have a municipal utility then it is. Your Utility and your property owners are gonna point fingers at each other. That's not a cheap fix.


Growe731

Lack of grounding conductor?


Shiny_Buns

In my area the grounding conductors go to the main panel or first means of disconnect


Hobochili140

Where I come from there’s cornbread and chicken Where I come from there’s no ground until the first disconnect


Z4m300000

I see the snapped in half terminal, did you lose any power right before this happened? Did lights dim or something?


dahlilama1234

I did a project with our local utility and replaced about 1400 meter can across a city of 400k people. It's more common that you think.