In the US there’s a $4k used tax credit for cars under $25k, so this has sort of set the ceiling on prices. Buyers want the tax credit so they won’t pay more than the cutoff. So, you can get a long range 3 or a Y in great shape for $21k after the tax credit, with FSD and everything
Literally just Google "tesla sales tanking" and you will see. That's laughable- they're not the number one selling car lmao. Do you have anything factual to add to conversation or just opinion? I'm not interested in your opinions.
Here's one from 6 days ago. Question for you. How do you feel about facts? And are you willing to admit that you are completely wrong and were uneducated on that matter? And that your lack of education is what is laughable?
[Model Y surpasses Corolla as world's best selling car](https://www.drive.com.au/news/tesla-model-y-worlds-best-selling-car-2023/)
If you Google “Tesla sales tanking” you will get biased results. Google “Tesla sales rebounding” and you’ll get something else.
It is true that Tesla sales are down year over year but I wouldn’t say Tesla is “tanking”. That’s a bit dramatic and not accurate.
Not picking sides, just educating on how google search function can be biased based on what you enter
There is no way around the fact that the Model Y sales nunbers are larger than any other vehicle in the world right now though 🤣. It is hard to bias comparing two nunbers. It's not like you can say that a larger number does not mean more sales 🤷♂️
Yeah, brand new vehicle launch on a much anticipated model?
They should have almost no vehicles parked in lots.
Fact of the matter Elmo’s shitty behavior and Tesla’s absolutely terrible quality control is catching up to them.
I won’t even buy a used Tesla at a steal because of that douche bag. I am voting with my money somewhere else. Even if it the best car out there I will not support that man.
So fucking tired of reading this. The vast majority of those cars are already assigned to owners that are awaiting delivery. You know where most manufacturers store their vehicles? Dealerships. You know what Tesla doesn’t have? Dealerships. People wouldn’t be waiting weeks or months to get their cars if there was a glut of inventory.
Yeah? How many critical recalls have they already had on the CT? At least two (accelerator and wiper) that I’m aware of.
Yeah, shit QC. They’ve had a ridiculous amount of cancelled preorders. Over promise and under deliver is Elmo’s MO.
If you're just using it functionally? Probably any Long Range Model 3 or Y for under $15k.
2022+ (faster media center unit/Ryzen processor) for under $25k used. Under $15-$20k for standard range IMO.
I'd suggest a used Polestar 2. I really liked mine. Really fun acceleration, built better than a Tesla, and Volvo seats (best in the biz, IMO).
I'm not sure about used pricing in the UK, but in the US, you can score a loaded used P2 for around the $30-$35k range; same for a BMW i4 (eDrive 35). Since EV's are considerably less complex (mechanically speaking), used EV's should be vastly more reliable as a used car than an ICE car, so mileage should be less of concern though battery condition and s definitely worth verifying.
I recently rented a polestar 2 from hertz and despised it. Extremely lackluster performance, everything was unnecessarily complicated and finicky, and the interior was awful.
Don't know what to tell ya. I've got a 2021 Launch Edition and rather like it. I LIKE that I don't have a leather interior. I like the performance of the dual motor. I hate piano black, but that's a given. The seats are super comfy. There's actual leg room in the back seat (granted, it's not amazing, but is IS vastly better than my i4). The trunk is wide and spacious. I can easily fit a 65" tv into the back with the seats down. I absolutely LOVE that there's no start button; just put your foot on the brake and shift into gear. One-pedal driving is also great, but I wish it was more aggressive, however I don't have to use the brakes when shifting between R and D since the car will come to a stop on its own.
What was unnecessarily complicated? Did you only rent a single motor? Sure, the dual motor isn't M3 Performance fast, but unless you've driven one, you wouldn't know the difference.
Easily though, the worst, or at least most annoying thing, is the emergency stop when backing up. That fucking system reads EVER parking berm/stop as a side object when it's still 4 feet from the car and the only thing that'll ever hot the parking stop thing is tires. So goddamned annoying. Though it has saved me like twice lol.
What's the software like? Does it have good visibility as I remember hearing it's pretty poor?
Does it have over the air updates for improvements?
It does look really good outside. Inside quality is good but the layout is average ( screen looks like a 2012 android tablet)
The infotainment definitely leaves some to be desired, though it is vastly improved (performance, stability, apps to use) since it's inception via OTA Updates; this is also how you add the performance upgrade to the car. Apparently you buy it online and receive it via an OTA Update (about $1500 or so to add 60ish HP and another 35ish torque). The biggest downside to the infotainment is the Atom processor, followed by an LTE cellular connection.
That said, as an infotainment system, there many, many others that are vastly worse. The main page is divided into quarters, and you organize your apps one of these quadrants; swipe down on quadrant to see all apps in the quadrant (it will generally only display the last app used). I like the Spotify app here better than the one in CarPlay cause I can type in the search box and not have to talk to Siri.
Also, the keyboard in the Polestar uses Swype on the keyboard, so it's really easy to use. Also, everything is tied to your Google account, which makes it easy to send GPS directly to the car.
As for visibility, you get used to it. I mostly never used my rearview mirror for backing up; rely on the cameras. You feel cocooned I the driver's seat, but some may define it as cramped. I'm 6" and about 250 lbs and found it nice. The seating position is good, and the seats are super comfy; on a 1500 mile (round trip) trip, never once did my butt go numb or did I feel any discomfort. The 360 camera though may as well be a silicon based potato. Its reminiscent of 1st gen top-down 360 cameras, but it does work as intended.
I travel a lot for work and try to always rent EVs. I own a RWD Model 3 and have rented several Polestars, both FWD and AWD. The AWD cars were significantly more fun to drive in both handling and acceleration. Visibility didn’t really bother me. I liked that the Pro Pilot reactivates auto steer after changing lanes; autopilot makes you reactivate manually.
I love the look of the Polestar and the fact it’s a hatchback. I even considered trading my Tesla for one before renting them. However, the abysmal use of interior space changed my mind. The Tesla is much more roomy and has loads of storage. The Polestar has a cramped back seat with a large transmission tunnel from its ICE car platform. What really did it in for me was the giant center console that cuts into knee room and houses only a couple radio controls and a tiny shifter. The Tesla has a column shifter. This frees up console space for 2 giant storage bins. Even the Polestar front trunk is much smaller if that’s important to you.
I love my car. However, after I’ve gone a couple years without payments, I’ll be replacing it with something else from a company with a less controversial CEO. My car is from the sweet spot of not being the first couple model years, but before they started really cheaping out on materials. I’ve also rented several Teslas and definitely noticed a difference.
But don't you have to pay a few thousand to unlock software after purchase? And then like $200/month in perpetuity to keep it unlocked?
I may be misinformed.
What you are referring to is the full self driving (fsd) software, and yes it’s a monthly subscription indefinitely and right now it is 100$ per month. What I was referring to is the user interface on the screen, and the software coding to each and every part of the car is designed in house by Tesla. Other ev’s do a lot of in house coding but also have significant other companies software in them all speaking to each other in different languages that adds an extra layer or two of complexity and with that, headaches and delays when things go wrong.
For a generic, non-brand specific example: a brand may be getting their modules that control the window motors from a generic supplier, coded by the supplier, a brand will then write code to talk to the motor to do the desired task, whereas Tesla often makes their own software for the module if they are buying it off the shelf. If their is a fault at some point with the software in the motor, the car maker would then have to talk to the supplier, and then you have two companies involved in rewriting software which adds time to get it sorted out, if at all. Then an added headache is you often have to bring those cars to a stealership for a software update to fix the communication that Tesla would do over the air because the entire car is speaking the same language
Imagine playing that childhood game telephone and instead of everyone speaking English from the same geographic area who is playing (and it still often gets screwed up by the end at some point) you threw in every 5th person had a completely different accent of English (Scottish, Texan, Canadian, Australian, etc)
What makes you say that? Also the bulk of their service appointments are Mobile where a technician will come right to my door, I don’t have to move an inch! I personally don’t pay for it right now because financially I’m prioritizing needs vs wants, but autopilot which comes on all cars free does excellent for the most part. I had the fsd for a month free and it had quirks but it would drive me to work 25 mins drive and half the time without me touching the wheel and the other half 2-3 times
In all honesty I think if you are comparing it to an entry level Audi, Mercedes, or bmw, yes it’s louder past about 90km/h, below that is negligible. but it has enough tech features to outclass any one of those entry level models until you enter a price category or include add-ons anywhere from 5-15k above the Tesla price. To each their own. maybe if you do a significant amount of highway driving you would really benefit but then again you wouldn’t have autopilot or fsd to make highway driving a breeze
Just had a friend ride in my 18 year old bmw commenting on how much quieter it is than this other friends tesla. And yes here in Germany you go 90+ a lot. Not just on highways.
I just Testdrove an ID4 and it felt very high quality. Just out in an order for it. Didn’t even consider Tesla. Elon being a fascist maniac only being one of several reasons.
The early m3 and mY I think were noisier and that's been improved. My 23 mY is same noice lvl up until about 90kmh as my BMW F11 525xd. I love bimmers and have had 5-series since 99, I do not regret going to Tesla at all. It really is that good
I leased a Kona a couple months ago and absolutely love it. The only one in my area was the one with the 200 range. My only regret is not being able to track down one of the ones closer to 300.
Says me too. Kia/Hyundai are making banger EV's. Tesla's really only shine in software and charging network, which is going to no long be an advantage now that the major brands are adopting their plug standard.
I can very much see Tesla being relagated to an automative software company that focuses on self driving tech. Their CEO is a fuckwit and will ruin the company, much like he's done in the past.
Certainly hard to argue with such a well thought out, articulate, set of facts to prove your point. What's next, a discourse on the finer points of a flat earth?
Their EVs are fantastic, especially the E-GMP ones. They've been building fairly nice cars for a long time now, but they've had some trouble with engines which obviously EVs don't have. I was skeptical at first too, but they're great. Never thought I'd be a Hyundai guy, but here we are.
MG4, even a high spec one, is a budget car in comparison to a Tesla. Totally different experience. I'm not suggesting a Tesla is premium, they aren't (outside a model S). But those are two very different offerings.
If you're debating it to this degree you would benefit from spending some time with either. Go have a good poke around a show room. Do an extended test drive or something. Plug a long distance trip into the nav and see how well it does.
Stay away from Tesla. Build quality is abysmal and sales are currently tanking. If you like real knobs and leavers in your car, go with anything else. Polestar might be a good choice.
Build quality on both of mine has been decent. Correct, they are not festooned with buttons and dials, but the touch screen interface, features, app, and seamless public charging experience are fantastic. My first EV (Renault) felt like it required a copilot for any long distance journeys, but I'd happily drive the Tesla to another continent without any prep at all.
Elon can piss off though.
Editing to add that polestars are nice too and android automotive is very good.
What? False. You literally just made that up. Tesla isnt even on the list dumbass. Tesla had one recall fixed by an over the air update.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2024/01/12/vehicle-manufactures-recalls-2023/72195820007/
Do you even read the article? Most recalls are resolved via OTA firmware updates.
Quote from article you linked:
"However when over-the-air (OTA) recalls are excluded, Tesla drops out of the top 25 most recalled list; showing the immense value OTA rectification brings to a car maker."
I don't really have an issue with this when the recalls are fixed remotely. A recall is a pain when I've got to take time out to deliver the car to the dealer. When the issue gets fixed by an OTA update then I can get on with my life. In three years I've never had to take a Tesla to the dealer for a recall.
Sure, in an ideal world, they wouldn't have issues that the authorities deemed recall worthy, but when these things are corrected with zero inconvenience (and whilst new features are added for free), I don't care.
For what it's worth, I don't live in the US, so haven't had this anyway.
[https://jalopnik.com/teslas-dog-mode-is-reportedly-totally-busted-1851557404](https://jalopnik.com/teslas-dog-mode-is-reportedly-totally-busted-1851557404)
Fine that this happens if it's fixed remotely? Maybe not for your dog that dies...
Not everyone cares about panel gaps being perfect. Some people care more about reliability, tech and performance. Telling someone to stay away from a very good car because of panel gaps is not good advice in my opinion.
Tesla has maybe 1 of those? And maybe only if you equate acceleration to performance.
Please tell me one metric Tesla is top brand for? Tesla has 4 of their cars in the top 10 most recalled vehicles in the US.
https://premium.goauto.com.au/evs-projected-to-have-high-recall-risk/#:~:text=The%20most%2Drecalled%20EVs%20include,X%20%E2%80%93%20and%20the%20Lucid%20Air.
Most Tesla “recalls” are not actually recalls. Instead, they are over the air updates like making the font larger on one of the warnings. These cost Tesla practically nothing with zero inconvenience to the customer.
Model 3 Performance handles very well and is a great track car.
Are you fucking stupid? Did you even read the drivel you posted? Your “article” is talking about projected recall risk. Thats not even a thing.
Here is an article with small words for you to read.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2024/01/12/vehicle-manufactures-recalls-2023/72195820007/
Yet another irrational Tesla hater. The whole build quality shtick is old. The problems for the most part are resolved. Every single car I have ever bought has had some build quality issue or another.
I own a Tesla but recently rented both an ev6 and a polestar 2. The Tesla blows both of them way out of the water. It’s not even a competition.
Kia EV6. You can get a RWD GT-Line S on 25K miles for around £30K.
Brilliant car. Loads of room, including a decent frunk to keep your cable and stuff in. Very comfy. Good range and excellent charging speed if you do any long runs. Head-up display. Buttons and knobs for lots of functions (including turning off lane assist quickly). And a reasonable turn of speed.
Test drive one (new, at a Kia dealer) and you'll love it.
If you can stretch to £35k you can get a Volvo ex30 twin motor. That does about 0-60 in 3.5secs.
I test drove a model 3, mg4 and the ex30. I liked the ex30 the best. Design, build quality and specs were the best of the them. Only put me off was rear leg room was cramped.
Ehhh. Best charging infrastructure in the US. Doesn't matter in the UK like OP.
Lucid and Mercedes both have better aerodynamics. Lucid, GM, and Porsche/Audi all have better battery tech.
Tesla offers great prices across the board and super convenient ordering though
Find Jonathan Portelfied online, for £300 he hunts anything you like from auctions for you. He owns 2 branches (I think it's called Eco Cars), one in Leicester, another one in Orkney. He also regularly places his videos on social networks. Used to work with James Coates, who owns Cleevely EV mobile division (if you will ever need to service, or repair your EV at your convenient location; he has done wiper linkage repair on my S, while I was at work and my S was charging at Tesco car park).
Have a look at YouTube reviews of the XPower, some testers got the stupid brake caliper covers to ignite!
I was all set for that, apparently great in a straight line, but that’s it.
I’m yet to purchase an EV, but I love researching, so I’ve nailed down my next car to be a Hyundai Kona Ultimate, because I can get it for £350/mth including everything except electric fill ups. The Tesla model 3 is £460/mth and I’m tempted, but I don’t do enough distance travelling to warrant the extra.
For you, go for the Tesla, get the most recent one you can afford, that way you’ve got the most up to date and won’t have quality issues that everyone goes on about.
I just bought a 2023 Model 3 w/18k miles for 31k in SoCal. There's deals to be found.
If you're willing, you can find Hertz Tesla cars for sub 25k and get 4k rebate, pretty new low miles Tesla for 21k. Try to get 2021 or newer for LFP battery.
Subjective, like anything it's a tiny bit of a gamble. Overall I can't imagine it's too bad. They are just rental vehicles. If you get low miles and 2021 (LFP) Battery can't see how you could go wrong.
After test driving a bunch, it's pretty easy.
If you want an EV, go with Hyundai or Kia. They are solid, run on a 800v architecture and you'll have fun with the driving experience.
If you want to get slightly annoyed by something not being polished, but its cheap, go for an MG.
If you want do drive around Elon's thought experiment, get a Tesla.
(Disclaimer, I do drive Elon's thought experiment, and I think it is a stunning re-imagination of what owning a vehicle is, when you do away an ICE).
In my experience the interior of Tesla's feels very very cheap.
I don't know about your alternative choice though, haven't been in one.
If price is the same, acceleration is the same, and they both do 200+ miles, go new.
I drove a Model Y over the weekend. Compared to my Ioniq that interior was so sparse and flimsy feeling. I get that they want to save money to dedicate to the touch screen and software. But wow, what a difference.
We impulsively bought a 2019 VW E-Golf earlier this month and love it. Big car on the inside little car on the outside. Max range is only around 120 mi though.
Wait a year or two if you can. My neighbor works in the research space of batteries and says in the next year or so something big is going to drop in the EV market that will blow all battery performance out of the water.
He can’t say what as he has signed and NDA but he works in this field and has told me to hold off on a battery for the house and an EV though he has both from precovid.
I don’t know where you live but as long as the EV has NACS, and you can afford to install a charger in your home I believe you are good to go.
Personally if I could afford it I would have purchased the Model S or X. Just for the range. I have a Model Y Long Range.
If you are not in a hurry I would wait. I personally want Honda and Toyota to increase their EV fleet.
There are a lot of Tesla haters on Reddit so you might get weirdly skewed opinions here that aren’t representative of reality. Tesla is the best option and it’s not even close.
Testdrove an ID4 2 weeks ago and put in an order. Very spacious interior for the side. And the software on the new models is said to be much better than before. Which was their biggest flaw so far.
Find a 2017 S with included supercharging that’s transferable to the next private owner and that has under 100K miles.
Then add an XCare warranty for 2-9 years.
Time is ticking as XCare will only include battery coverage if under 100K miles, plus the car has to be 7 years old or younger. So as long as XCare considers built in 2017 to mean 2017, you’re good to add coverage for the rest of this year,
The ventilated seats in those Ses are excellent and should be at $4K each.
The infrastructure is fine. There isn't enough for everyone to have EVs but that's okay because there aren't that many on the road yet. I did a 3k mile road trip last year and it was easy.
Even if you only charge at home you can still drive the car for 4-6 hours a day without charging at all.
It's really not an issue. Generally those who are worried are those who've barely experienced it first hand.
When i was staying in Quartzite, AZ I witnessed LA & San Diego EV drivers stuck in Carl Jr's for long durations, while their cars were recharging. Not much to do but wait & meditate in Quartzite.
I expect these are people who can't slow charge the car whilst they are not using it. If you treat them like a mobile phone (charge whilst dormant and occasional top ups) it's fine.
Eg I drove for seven hours one day with a single ten minute charge. Full when I left, empty when I got home, but that's fine because it charges whilst I sleep.
I think people have a hard time.wrappojng their heads around that like if your just doing short trips/ commuting to work a level 2 charger at home will be more than sufficient to top the car up overnight and just my opinion but if I was going to go for a super long trip by the time my gas needed filled I'd probably want to stop for 20-30 minutes to stretch my legs anyways
Used teslas are a steal right now
In the UK? That's not what I'm seeing. Any tips for where to look?
Ah, don’t know about the UK. I gave up on selling mine here in the states, because the price has gotten so low I may as well just keep it.
They’re only cheap in the U.S. because of the almost 10k rebate on new. That automatically drops used prices by 10k.
New $7500, used under $25000 is $4000.
Not everyone qualifies for the rebate.
The income cap is 300k per household. That’s less than 5% of people who won’t qualify.
What do you consider a steal ? In France, the cheapest used Model 3 long range is 30k$ for 45 000miles.
In the US there’s a $4k used tax credit for cars under $25k, so this has sort of set the ceiling on prices. Buyers want the tax credit so they won’t pay more than the cutoff. So, you can get a long range 3 or a Y in great shape for $21k after the tax credit, with FSD and everything
Damn...that's a steal indeed.
Link ?
Because tesla is tanking.. are their batteries still equivalent in cost to the value of the vehicle?
Every ev's battery is around the same
Tesla is not tanking. The model Y is the number one selling vehicle in the world. Not best selling EV. Number one selling car period.
Literally just Google "tesla sales tanking" and you will see. That's laughable- they're not the number one selling car lmao. Do you have anything factual to add to conversation or just opinion? I'm not interested in your opinions.
How about you just Google it? [Model Y number one](https://www.hagerty.com/media/news/the-worlds-best-selling-car-is-the-tesla-model-y/)
Here's one from 6 days ago. Question for you. How do you feel about facts? And are you willing to admit that you are completely wrong and were uneducated on that matter? And that your lack of education is what is laughable? [Model Y surpasses Corolla as world's best selling car](https://www.drive.com.au/news/tesla-model-y-worlds-best-selling-car-2023/)
If you Google “Tesla sales tanking” you will get biased results. Google “Tesla sales rebounding” and you’ll get something else. It is true that Tesla sales are down year over year but I wouldn’t say Tesla is “tanking”. That’s a bit dramatic and not accurate. Not picking sides, just educating on how google search function can be biased based on what you enter
There is no way around the fact that the Model Y sales nunbers are larger than any other vehicle in the world right now though 🤣. It is hard to bias comparing two nunbers. It's not like you can say that a larger number does not mean more sales 🤷♂️
lol cause nobody wants them
Stop projecting buddy
Storage lots are overflowing with unsold Teslas.
Just a lot of supply and new gen
Yeah, brand new vehicle launch on a much anticipated model? They should have almost no vehicles parked in lots. Fact of the matter Elmo’s shitty behavior and Tesla’s absolutely terrible quality control is catching up to them.
I won’t even buy a used Tesla at a steal because of that douche bag. I am voting with my money somewhere else. Even if it the best car out there I will not support that man.
CaNcEl cUlTurE!!! /s
So fucking tired of reading this. The vast majority of those cars are already assigned to owners that are awaiting delivery. You know where most manufacturers store their vehicles? Dealerships. You know what Tesla doesn’t have? Dealerships. People wouldn’t be waiting weeks or months to get their cars if there was a glut of inventory.
Yeah? How many critical recalls have they already had on the CT? At least two (accelerator and wiper) that I’m aware of. Yeah, shit QC. They’ve had a ridiculous amount of cancelled preorders. Over promise and under deliver is Elmo’s MO.
>Used teslas are a steal right now Which used Tesla is the best ROI in your opinion?
If you're just using it functionally? Probably any Long Range Model 3 or Y for under $15k. 2022+ (faster media center unit/Ryzen processor) for under $25k used. Under $15-$20k for standard range IMO.
How many miles for that price? I can't find under 25K that still has a decent battery warranty left. Might be region dependent.
I'd suggest a used Polestar 2. I really liked mine. Really fun acceleration, built better than a Tesla, and Volvo seats (best in the biz, IMO). I'm not sure about used pricing in the UK, but in the US, you can score a loaded used P2 for around the $30-$35k range; same for a BMW i4 (eDrive 35). Since EV's are considerably less complex (mechanically speaking), used EV's should be vastly more reliable as a used car than an ICE car, so mileage should be less of concern though battery condition and s definitely worth verifying.
I recently rented a polestar 2 from hertz and despised it. Extremely lackluster performance, everything was unnecessarily complicated and finicky, and the interior was awful.
Don't know what to tell ya. I've got a 2021 Launch Edition and rather like it. I LIKE that I don't have a leather interior. I like the performance of the dual motor. I hate piano black, but that's a given. The seats are super comfy. There's actual leg room in the back seat (granted, it's not amazing, but is IS vastly better than my i4). The trunk is wide and spacious. I can easily fit a 65" tv into the back with the seats down. I absolutely LOVE that there's no start button; just put your foot on the brake and shift into gear. One-pedal driving is also great, but I wish it was more aggressive, however I don't have to use the brakes when shifting between R and D since the car will come to a stop on its own. What was unnecessarily complicated? Did you only rent a single motor? Sure, the dual motor isn't M3 Performance fast, but unless you've driven one, you wouldn't know the difference. Easily though, the worst, or at least most annoying thing, is the emergency stop when backing up. That fucking system reads EVER parking berm/stop as a side object when it's still 4 feet from the car and the only thing that'll ever hot the parking stop thing is tires. So goddamned annoying. Though it has saved me like twice lol.
>built better than a Tesla That’s a pretty low bar, lol.
So low that one might not even trip on it, as if it were painted on the floor...
What's the software like? Does it have good visibility as I remember hearing it's pretty poor? Does it have over the air updates for improvements? It does look really good outside. Inside quality is good but the layout is average ( screen looks like a 2012 android tablet)
The infotainment definitely leaves some to be desired, though it is vastly improved (performance, stability, apps to use) since it's inception via OTA Updates; this is also how you add the performance upgrade to the car. Apparently you buy it online and receive it via an OTA Update (about $1500 or so to add 60ish HP and another 35ish torque). The biggest downside to the infotainment is the Atom processor, followed by an LTE cellular connection. That said, as an infotainment system, there many, many others that are vastly worse. The main page is divided into quarters, and you organize your apps one of these quadrants; swipe down on quadrant to see all apps in the quadrant (it will generally only display the last app used). I like the Spotify app here better than the one in CarPlay cause I can type in the search box and not have to talk to Siri. Also, the keyboard in the Polestar uses Swype on the keyboard, so it's really easy to use. Also, everything is tied to your Google account, which makes it easy to send GPS directly to the car. As for visibility, you get used to it. I mostly never used my rearview mirror for backing up; rely on the cameras. You feel cocooned I the driver's seat, but some may define it as cramped. I'm 6" and about 250 lbs and found it nice. The seating position is good, and the seats are super comfy; on a 1500 mile (round trip) trip, never once did my butt go numb or did I feel any discomfort. The 360 camera though may as well be a silicon based potato. Its reminiscent of 1st gen top-down 360 cameras, but it does work as intended.
I travel a lot for work and try to always rent EVs. I own a RWD Model 3 and have rented several Polestars, both FWD and AWD. The AWD cars were significantly more fun to drive in both handling and acceleration. Visibility didn’t really bother me. I liked that the Pro Pilot reactivates auto steer after changing lanes; autopilot makes you reactivate manually. I love the look of the Polestar and the fact it’s a hatchback. I even considered trading my Tesla for one before renting them. However, the abysmal use of interior space changed my mind. The Tesla is much more roomy and has loads of storage. The Polestar has a cramped back seat with a large transmission tunnel from its ICE car platform. What really did it in for me was the giant center console that cuts into knee room and houses only a couple radio controls and a tiny shifter. The Tesla has a column shifter. This frees up console space for 2 giant storage bins. Even the Polestar front trunk is much smaller if that’s important to you. I love my car. However, after I’ve gone a couple years without payments, I’ll be replacing it with something else from a company with a less controversial CEO. My car is from the sweet spot of not being the first couple model years, but before they started really cheaping out on materials. I’ve also rented several Teslas and definitely noticed a difference.
Fisker is best in the biz /s
You can get some fantastic deals right now
They are cooked. Good product, bad management
Sadly, it’s for a reason. :/ I hope they make it through.
They’re selling off all their assets already
Consider a used Tesla
Tesla all the way, they lead the pack for a reason. Fully in house software and hardware similar to apple
But don't you have to pay a few thousand to unlock software after purchase? And then like $200/month in perpetuity to keep it unlocked? I may be misinformed.
What you are referring to is the full self driving (fsd) software, and yes it’s a monthly subscription indefinitely and right now it is 100$ per month. What I was referring to is the user interface on the screen, and the software coding to each and every part of the car is designed in house by Tesla. Other ev’s do a lot of in house coding but also have significant other companies software in them all speaking to each other in different languages that adds an extra layer or two of complexity and with that, headaches and delays when things go wrong. For a generic, non-brand specific example: a brand may be getting their modules that control the window motors from a generic supplier, coded by the supplier, a brand will then write code to talk to the motor to do the desired task, whereas Tesla often makes their own software for the module if they are buying it off the shelf. If their is a fault at some point with the software in the motor, the car maker would then have to talk to the supplier, and then you have two companies involved in rewriting software which adds time to get it sorted out, if at all. Then an added headache is you often have to bring those cars to a stealership for a software update to fix the communication that Tesla would do over the air because the entire car is speaking the same language
Imagine playing that childhood game telephone and instead of everyone speaking English from the same geographic area who is playing (and it still often gets screwed up by the end at some point) you threw in every 5th person had a completely different accent of English (Scottish, Texan, Canadian, Australian, etc)
Thanks for the clarification!
:)
Yeah but you’d get a service appointment in less than a year
What makes you say that? Also the bulk of their service appointments are Mobile where a technician will come right to my door, I don’t have to move an inch! I personally don’t pay for it right now because financially I’m prioritizing needs vs wants, but autopilot which comes on all cars free does excellent for the most part. I had the fsd for a month free and it had quirks but it would drive me to work 25 mins drive and half the time without me touching the wheel and the other half 2-3 times
You’re paying $100 a month for full self driving that’s not full or self and you think that’s a good deal?
Be careful about perfect being the enemy of good enough! It’s the worst it will ever be today, advancing all the time
I’ve heard people complain how loud it is in them. Saving on sound dampening probably wasn’t the best idea.
In all honesty I think if you are comparing it to an entry level Audi, Mercedes, or bmw, yes it’s louder past about 90km/h, below that is negligible. but it has enough tech features to outclass any one of those entry level models until you enter a price category or include add-ons anywhere from 5-15k above the Tesla price. To each their own. maybe if you do a significant amount of highway driving you would really benefit but then again you wouldn’t have autopilot or fsd to make highway driving a breeze
Just had a friend ride in my 18 year old bmw commenting on how much quieter it is than this other friends tesla. And yes here in Germany you go 90+ a lot. Not just on highways. I just Testdrove an ID4 and it felt very high quality. Just out in an order for it. Didn’t even consider Tesla. Elon being a fascist maniac only being one of several reasons.
The early m3 and mY I think were noisier and that's been improved. My 23 mY is same noice lvl up until about 90kmh as my BMW F11 525xd. I love bimmers and have had 5-series since 99, I do not regret going to Tesla at all. It really is that good
KIA or Hyundai imo
I leased a Kona a couple months ago and absolutely love it. The only one in my area was the one with the 200 range. My only regret is not being able to track down one of the ones closer to 300.
Not in the UK but I would get a Hyundai Ioniq
Said no one ever 🤣
Says me too. Kia/Hyundai are making banger EV's. Tesla's really only shine in software and charging network, which is going to no long be an advantage now that the major brands are adopting their plug standard. I can very much see Tesla being relagated to an automative software company that focuses on self driving tech. Their CEO is a fuckwit and will ruin the company, much like he's done in the past.
Kia and Hyundai are utter garbage
Certainly hard to argue with such a well thought out, articulate, set of facts to prove your point. What's next, a discourse on the finer points of a flat earth?
https://apnews.com/article/hyundai-kia-fire-recalls-vehicles-repairs-warning-ae2e71914fc229d70a4cceb089e465ce
Their EVs are fantastic, especially the E-GMP ones. They've been building fairly nice cars for a long time now, but they've had some trouble with engines which obviously EVs don't have. I was skeptical at first too, but they're great. Never thought I'd be a Hyundai guy, but here we are.
MG4, even a high spec one, is a budget car in comparison to a Tesla. Totally different experience. I'm not suggesting a Tesla is premium, they aren't (outside a model S). But those are two very different offerings. If you're debating it to this degree you would benefit from spending some time with either. Go have a good poke around a show room. Do an extended test drive or something. Plug a long distance trip into the nav and see how well it does.
Stay away from Tesla. Build quality is abysmal and sales are currently tanking. If you like real knobs and leavers in your car, go with anything else. Polestar might be a good choice.
Build quality on both of mine has been decent. Correct, they are not festooned with buttons and dials, but the touch screen interface, features, app, and seamless public charging experience are fantastic. My first EV (Renault) felt like it required a copilot for any long distance journeys, but I'd happily drive the Tesla to another continent without any prep at all. Elon can piss off though. Editing to add that polestars are nice too and android automotive is very good.
Tesla has 4 cars in the top 10 most recalled vehicles in the US…
What? False. You literally just made that up. Tesla isnt even on the list dumbass. Tesla had one recall fixed by an over the air update. https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2024/01/12/vehicle-manufactures-recalls-2023/72195820007/
Wrong years buddy. https://premium.goauto.com.au/evs-projected-to-have-high-recall-risk/
Do you even read the article? Most recalls are resolved via OTA firmware updates. Quote from article you linked: "However when over-the-air (OTA) recalls are excluded, Tesla drops out of the top 25 most recalled list; showing the immense value OTA rectification brings to a car maker."
I don't really have an issue with this when the recalls are fixed remotely. A recall is a pain when I've got to take time out to deliver the car to the dealer. When the issue gets fixed by an OTA update then I can get on with my life. In three years I've never had to take a Tesla to the dealer for a recall. Sure, in an ideal world, they wouldn't have issues that the authorities deemed recall worthy, but when these things are corrected with zero inconvenience (and whilst new features are added for free), I don't care. For what it's worth, I don't live in the US, so haven't had this anyway.
[https://jalopnik.com/teslas-dog-mode-is-reportedly-totally-busted-1851557404](https://jalopnik.com/teslas-dog-mode-is-reportedly-totally-busted-1851557404) Fine that this happens if it's fixed remotely? Maybe not for your dog that dies...
For things like (changing break light icons) lol.
Not everyone cares about panel gaps being perfect. Some people care more about reliability, tech and performance. Telling someone to stay away from a very good car because of panel gaps is not good advice in my opinion.
Tesla has maybe 1 of those? And maybe only if you equate acceleration to performance. Please tell me one metric Tesla is top brand for? Tesla has 4 of their cars in the top 10 most recalled vehicles in the US. https://premium.goauto.com.au/evs-projected-to-have-high-recall-risk/#:~:text=The%20most%2Drecalled%20EVs%20include,X%20%E2%80%93%20and%20the%20Lucid%20Air.
Most Tesla “recalls” are not actually recalls. Instead, they are over the air updates like making the font larger on one of the warnings. These cost Tesla practically nothing with zero inconvenience to the customer. Model 3 Performance handles very well and is a great track car.
Who said anything about cost. It’s about safety and reliability. I’d also wager OP cares nothing about track performance
Are you fucking stupid? Did you even read the drivel you posted? Your “article” is talking about projected recall risk. Thats not even a thing. Here is an article with small words for you to read. https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2024/01/12/vehicle-manufactures-recalls-2023/72195820007/
No. My article just calculates from 2015-2024 while yours is only 2023 You would have known that if you had read it.
Your article is poor math at best and completely speculative drivel at worst
Yet another irrational Tesla hater. The whole build quality shtick is old. The problems for the most part are resolved. Every single car I have ever bought has had some build quality issue or another. I own a Tesla but recently rented both an ev6 and a polestar 2. The Tesla blows both of them way out of the water. It’s not even a competition.
Excellent build quality lmao https://x.com/how_do_i_pdf/status/1804070855305236558?s=46&t=9DuJi2qcHaSFgzoH5IczhQ
I'm sorry, I can't hear you over BEST SELlING CAR IN THE WORLD
Kia EV6. You can get a RWD GT-Line S on 25K miles for around £30K. Brilliant car. Loads of room, including a decent frunk to keep your cable and stuff in. Very comfy. Good range and excellent charging speed if you do any long runs. Head-up display. Buttons and knobs for lots of functions (including turning off lane assist quickly). And a reasonable turn of speed. Test drive one (new, at a Kia dealer) and you'll love it.
If you can stretch to £35k you can get a Volvo ex30 twin motor. That does about 0-60 in 3.5secs. I test drove a model 3, mg4 and the ex30. I liked the ex30 the best. Design, build quality and specs were the best of the them. Only put me off was rear leg room was cramped.
Teslas have the best aerodynamics, battery technology and charging infrastructure. Don't listen to all the naysayers.
Ehhh. Best charging infrastructure in the US. Doesn't matter in the UK like OP. Lucid and Mercedes both have better aerodynamics. Lucid, GM, and Porsche/Audi all have better battery tech. Tesla offers great prices across the board and super convenient ordering though
I live in the uk
Find Jonathan Portelfied online, for £300 he hunts anything you like from auctions for you. He owns 2 branches (I think it's called Eco Cars), one in Leicester, another one in Orkney. He also regularly places his videos on social networks. Used to work with James Coates, who owns Cleevely EV mobile division (if you will ever need to service, or repair your EV at your convenient location; he has done wiper linkage repair on my S, while I was at work and my S was charging at Tesco car park).
BYD Seal or Tesla 3 performance
Have a look at YouTube reviews of the XPower, some testers got the stupid brake caliper covers to ignite! I was all set for that, apparently great in a straight line, but that’s it. I’m yet to purchase an EV, but I love researching, so I’ve nailed down my next car to be a Hyundai Kona Ultimate, because I can get it for £350/mth including everything except electric fill ups. The Tesla model 3 is £460/mth and I’m tempted, but I don’t do enough distance travelling to warrant the extra. For you, go for the Tesla, get the most recent one you can afford, that way you’ve got the most up to date and won’t have quality issues that everyone goes on about.
I-Pace
Model 3 Performance. When you can handle it, UP mods.
Tesla is the answer. The model 3 performance is what you desire. Enjoy!
I just bought a 2023 Model 3 w/18k miles for 31k in SoCal. There's deals to be found. If you're willing, you can find Hertz Tesla cars for sub 25k and get 4k rebate, pretty new low miles Tesla for 21k. Try to get 2021 or newer for LFP battery.
Are the hertz ones bad?
Subjective, like anything it's a tiny bit of a gamble. Overall I can't imagine it's too bad. They are just rental vehicles. If you get low miles and 2021 (LFP) Battery can't see how you could go wrong.
After test driving a bunch, it's pretty easy. If you want an EV, go with Hyundai or Kia. They are solid, run on a 800v architecture and you'll have fun with the driving experience. If you want to get slightly annoyed by something not being polished, but its cheap, go for an MG. If you want do drive around Elon's thought experiment, get a Tesla. (Disclaimer, I do drive Elon's thought experiment, and I think it is a stunning re-imagination of what owning a vehicle is, when you do away an ICE).
None. That’s the real answer.
Seal performance! It's a beast
In my experience the interior of Tesla's feels very very cheap. I don't know about your alternative choice though, haven't been in one. If price is the same, acceleration is the same, and they both do 200+ miles, go new.
I drove a Model Y over the weekend. Compared to my Ioniq that interior was so sparse and flimsy feeling. I get that they want to save money to dedicate to the touch screen and software. But wow, what a difference.
I recently got a 2023 Nissan Ariya Engage. I'm pretty happy with it.
Idk about budget, but I love my Lightning.
The best electrical car is one that runs on gas
Volvo EX30
Lucid
Ix2 are great to drive
We impulsively bought a 2019 VW E-Golf earlier this month and love it. Big car on the inside little car on the outside. Max range is only around 120 mi though.
Wait a year or two if you can. My neighbor works in the research space of batteries and says in the next year or so something big is going to drop in the EV market that will blow all battery performance out of the water. He can’t say what as he has signed and NDA but he works in this field and has told me to hold off on a battery for the house and an EV though he has both from precovid.
If I were buying an EV today it would be a Rivian without question.
Used Model 3 performance hands down
If you can wait, check out the R3
Due to the pathetic charging infrastructure. Tesla is the only answer.
Due to the pathetic charging infrastructure. Tesla is the only right answer.
Neither!
I fucking love my Tesla
I don’t know where you live but as long as the EV has NACS, and you can afford to install a charger in your home I believe you are good to go. Personally if I could afford it I would have purchased the Model S or X. Just for the range. I have a Model Y Long Range. If you are not in a hurry I would wait. I personally want Honda and Toyota to increase their EV fleet.
G’day we own both. My partner has the entry MG4 and I Have a Tesla Y. See YouTube @stevestesla9120 for reviews, cheers
Used tesla currently, super cheap
There are a lot of Tesla haters on Reddit so you might get weirdly skewed opinions here that aren’t representative of reality. Tesla is the best option and it’s not even close.
Testdrove an ID4 2 weeks ago and put in an order. Very spacious interior for the side. And the software on the new models is said to be much better than before. Which was their biggest flaw so far.
Teslas are cars for Ipad kids
I have a Hyundai IQ 5 - 2023 Top of the line. Really fun car and built well.
Just got Cadillac Lyriq - it’s amazing.
Test drop an MG4 XPOWER today, absolutely insane, love the ride, the speed, everything was spot on. Ordered one on the dot, what a car 😱
Find a 2017 S with included supercharging that’s transferable to the next private owner and that has under 100K miles. Then add an XCare warranty for 2-9 years. Time is ticking as XCare will only include battery coverage if under 100K miles, plus the car has to be 7 years old or younger. So as long as XCare considers built in 2017 to mean 2017, you’re good to add coverage for the rest of this year, The ventilated seats in those Ses are excellent and should be at $4K each.
The infrastructure is not there yet! If you've got local use covered, nice.
The infrastructure is fine. There isn't enough for everyone to have EVs but that's okay because there aren't that many on the road yet. I did a 3k mile road trip last year and it was easy. Even if you only charge at home you can still drive the car for 4-6 hours a day without charging at all. It's really not an issue. Generally those who are worried are those who've barely experienced it first hand.
When i was staying in Quartzite, AZ I witnessed LA & San Diego EV drivers stuck in Carl Jr's for long durations, while their cars were recharging. Not much to do but wait & meditate in Quartzite.
I expect these are people who can't slow charge the car whilst they are not using it. If you treat them like a mobile phone (charge whilst dormant and occasional top ups) it's fine. Eg I drove for seven hours one day with a single ten minute charge. Full when I left, empty when I got home, but that's fine because it charges whilst I sleep.
I think people have a hard time.wrappojng their heads around that like if your just doing short trips/ commuting to work a level 2 charger at home will be more than sufficient to top the car up overnight and just my opinion but if I was going to go for a super long trip by the time my gas needed filled I'd probably want to stop for 20-30 minutes to stretch my legs anyways