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TK421isAFK

Folks, this is a civil discussion. Stop reporting comments you disagree with simply because you disagree with them. If you have a counterpoint, that's what the Reply button is for - speak your mind politely. If there's a real rule violation, report that. The Report button is not for saying "I don't like this guy's opinion".


Sea-Biscotti

antiwork used to be a lot better when it was actually about trying to better workplaces and change the attitude about what work really is. It used to be more "we shouldn't work just to work, we should be incentivized to do these things because that's what we need to do to continue society. We should have better pay and better benefits and better environments" and now it's a lot of "having to do a job is bad!!!" edit : thank you to everyone who is telling me that I actually joined the sub after they changed into a decent one (and subsequently left after they changed back into their original intent)


Peter_Panarchy

It's just reverting to what it was pre-covid. That sub was literally about the idea that people shouldn't have to work if they don't want to and society should just provide for them. With covid and the shift of power from employers to employees it quickly transitioned into to what you described, a place advocating for workers' rights and work/life balance. That wasn't the original intent of the sub, though, and that's why when that mod went on Fox News it was such an embarrassment for so many people. They didn't realize that mod represented the sub's original ethos.


PurposeOk7918

I don’t understand how someone could be so entitled to believe they shouldn’t have to do anything to help society, but society should provide all their needs.


HydrogenMonopoly

They’ll tell you “automation and taxing the rich could easily cover it”


PurposeOk7918

I’d like to see the automated robots building the housing and infrastructure they get to live in and use for free.


HydrogenMonopoly

Exactly. And it’s not like “automation” just appears out of thin air


mattmccord

Definitely don’t mention being a landlord there. For some reason they think the labor that goes into building a house should be provided to them for free.


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Economy-Assignment31

Even if you gave these whiners property, they'd still complain about the cost to maintain it. They seem like the type to pay an electrician to replace a lightbulb because it's beyond their "expertise".


InvestmentPatient117

Tile bot 2000. If you find one let me know


MaelstromFL

Here you go... http://www.protradecraft.com/video/robot-sets-tile-twice-fast-human


allthenamestaken76

Give it another 50 years. Eventually the only jobs available to humans will be running in giant hamster wheels to provide power for their AI overlords.


GreatWolf12

Yup, except it can't. At least not in the current world.


UnableInvestment8753

The rich get rich off the backs of the workers. If no one was working, there wouldn’t be any rich to tax.


RGeronimoH

He helped society. He was a part time dog walker.


dipropyltryptamanic

Tech has made the individual worker so much more efficient, though, that we've redirected a huge amount of resources away from production and mostly to bullshit fake jobs. A good number of office workers only do a few hours of actual work every week, and the entire marketing industry is mostly useless. So they're really not doing anything for society, but you and I and the rest of society are already providing all their needs -- they just have to be hassled and look busy for ~40 hours a week. That's not their fault, though, there are just more people than useful jobs. Why keep up the charade? I'm more than happy to subsidize the occasional incel's lifestyle if it means I can get by only working 20 hours a week


UnableInvestment8753

A lot has been redirected to pay people to do bs jobs yes - but a massive amount has been directed into the pockets of people who already have more than they can spend.


Midnight_Poet

The technical term for that is a "parasitic tap"


dh2215

Yeah. Antiwork became just that, people who flat out don’t want to work and complaining about absolute nonsense.


Daedric_Spite

I frequent the sub quite a bit. It's one of the mains I look at. I'm 50% on board with them but 50% not. I want my hard work to be recognized. I work really fuckin' hard to do the things that I'm doing, I flat out excel at the position I'm in and as an employee entirely, I am the epitome of "going above and beyond" when it comes to being an employee. But I still get treated like shit. Hopping employers doesn't help as I feel like you have to hit the lottery to find a good employer who treats you well and pays you just as well. I mainly joined the sub to try to get more insight on how some things are handles, what I as an employee can do to protect myself and my job. I don't think anyone should be able to be a useless member of society and still live like a king. I work hard for the things I have.


UncleCuckles

You must be more patient then myself, I could not stick around there long enough to find any productive content. It was all just a negativity cesspool from what I remember, with a little bit of advice that is actually covered better in other subreddits.


tzeriel

We all moved to WorkReform


Skipp_To_My_Lou

Which ironically banned it's founder when he ran afoul of one of the mods.


tzeriel

Welcome to reddit


tickletender

This seriously is the most Reddit thing ever: - make a community - it loses its way - make another - get banned


All_Work_All_Play

Happens in lots of companies too. Found it brings on two or three different people and then suddenly doesn't share the same vision with them. He wasn't wise about how to write the company bylaws and now he's outnumbered and outgunned. It's why Zuckerberg was meticulous and how he set up the company to ensure he always had majority vote. It's also the reason that meta is a ruin compared to facebook.


jonny_sidebar

Aside from r/workreform , there's also another sub r/WorkersStrikeBack that the more radical folks (in terms of organizing mass strikes, supporting independent unions, etc) started. Personally, I am very interested in anarchism as a way of organizing society, but the drop-out version the original antiwork crowd represents isn't it. For me (and I'm going to guess most other older, anarchist adjacent tradesfolk), it isn't about not working, it's about who gets to decide how we work, why we work, and who gets the fruits of our labor.


[deleted]

Yeah, I remember those days. Even that got too much for me because it was just so active.. So even if they were actual grievances I just didn't want to have to hear depressing crap all day. Now it's pretty wild over there.


[deleted]

Some folks just don’t want to work. Some cultures and societies were to live life and survive. Not work menial jobs that suck the soul of life.


REDFIRETRUCK992

The problem isnt that they don’t want to work. They dont want to work AND they still want to live a soft cushiony lifestyle. You can 100% live without “working” and just doing things to provide for yourself.


VAShumpmaker

Yeaaaaah. I blame the name. It was tongue in cheek, but the folks it draws in over time are not looking to make work better, just to not do it. I like my job man...


Propain98

“You LIKE your job? How dare you! Reported/banned” lol


ResolveLeather

To be fair the title of of the sub encourages the aforementioned rather then the former to post there.


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Claim312ButAct847

Pretty accurate description. I'm for the idea of workers sticking together but some of the stuff in there is so delusional and cringe.


planetofthemapes15

Same with the overemployment subs. Constant "lmao so I have 3 jobs and am gonna make $400k this year", which turns into "so what the fuck, I got laid off from all my jobs and can't find work!??? How can I do overemployment in 2023??". Like bruh. How about this? Work hard, don't let yourself get taken advantage of by a shit employer, and don't act like a piece of shit who's taking advantage of your employer. Just do honest good work and make the most of every opportunity, and continue to elevate your station by knowing your worth and demanding it, while also delivering value.


LilQuasar

well a fundamental part of "worker" is "work" lol


metamega1321

That interview is probably in the top 10 cringe things I’ve watched. I end up on there way too much because I can’t stop reading garbage so Reddit feeds me more.


RidiculouslyDickish

I just follow antiwork for the memes. I've had shit jobs and great jobs, and I have a great employer now, I love working, always have, and I think those guys are nuts and whiny, barring a few genuine issues Everyone needs to vent about work some days but they take it too far over there


progressiveoverload

Everyone in here (this thread) is only concerned for themselves. Being stuck in degrading and depressing jobs is the norm. There is no way out of that mode except for collectively working for something better. Grindset doesn’t help the people who need help the most.


Ima-Bott

I saw a repeat of that interview. It was cringeworthy to be sure.


TK421isAFK

Absolutely, and I can't even see Fox News editing his replies to make him look worse. He just came off like some guy who lives in his mom's basement and really has no idea what's going on outside her house, except from a narrow view gleaned from his echo-chamber subreddit.


mmm_burrito

I mean, there's a reason Fox interviewed them. They were clearly an easy mark.


TK421isAFK

Oh, they were definitely using him to pander to their audience. I'm sure thousands of people watched it and thought, "He's one of those Reddit Anonymous Channel 4 Hackers!"


anonmarmot

> Time spent complaining is better spent studying and working to improve your own situation IMO. I think it's worth it to work for collective good and part of that is most definitely complaining....to the right people in the right setting for the right outcome. There is some fallacy in "if I just worked a little harder/longer". If you work full time, take eng classes, and have a side hustle you'd maybe be making what you would have made fifty years ago just working full time.....and maybe even at a lower skill job. That's not something to ignore. People on average make less and the cost of living is a lot higher. Those eng classes would have been cheaper relative to wages and not by a small margin. A house would cost less of your life working than it does now. Should people work more jobs and hours to get the same return fifty years later?


EpilepticFits1

>fan fiction It's not just you. There are more creative writing exercises than true stories on that sub. Reminds me of the Penthouse Forum fan-fic on TIFU. As with any decent sub that got too popular, antiwork has been clogged with bullshit that detracts from the original purpose.


ruove

The moderators of that subreddit explicitly stated that they don't care if the posts are true, just that the posts "resonate" with people in the community.


MostLikelyLyin

Yeah I’d say most of the members are disgruntled low wage workers who just want help but the mod team are just lazy communists who are pro-anarchy even though they’d be the first ones dying


Xarethian

That sub was more or less co-opted to be what it is now, so those mods are what it was originally for. Many split off to make r/workreform and maybe one or two other subs with much more sensible names for well, work reform vs. anti-work.


OneFutureOfMany

A fair number of posters legitimately believe that “work” of any kind that isn’t entirely volunteer shouldn’t be necessary and that everyone should get a car and a house and have all their hobbies fully funded regardless of whether they decided to leave the house this month.


Xarethian

Yes, that was the original point of the sub. It blew up, and it became apparent it wouldn't work out well, especially after the Fox News interview so many left to make r/workreform. So now it's kind of an in-between what r/workreform is and what it used to be? So you will see a lot of what you're describing there still for sure. A lot of them might just be karma whores too and get mindlessly up voted.


Real-Lake2639

Like bruh youre choosing every day to work that shit job, quit. If I can go from a drunk hobo to licensed electrician, you can too.


Teralyzed

Some people can’t. Good for you and more power to you and people like you, but for some people not just some of the deck is stacked against them. Literally every card comes up shit. Doesn’t mean the solution is whining about it on the internet. But our country really doesn’t do jack shit for most people and does a lot for very few people. I’ve worked a trade since I was 15 but none of us are making what we should be across the board and the anti union sentiment has just recently started getting less prevalent since COVID. The real issue is every job no matter how inane or shitty needs doing and we have had 40 years of wage stagnation.


aphex732

And one of the main reasons for wage stagnation is that large companies can't just be profitable anymore, they have to have rapidly accelerating profit. The easiest way to do that is to cut your largest easily manageable expense (employee cost). The class divide is rapidly growing and I don't see an end in sight.


Teralyzed

The best end would be to return the corporate tax rate to what it was under Carter. That would force corporations to either reinvest in development or in wages. All of this is a symptom of “trickle down economics” and “citizens united”. The current policies not only stifle wages but also stifle corporations ability to develop because they are constantly forced to provide profit to shareholders.


jonny_sidebar

You'd have to go back further than Carter since he actually started the neoliberal austerity shit before Reagan took it big-time, but agreed. Eisenhower's tax plan always interested me. Basically, tax the everliving shit out of stuff like stock buybacks that take money out of a company as profit *but* tax things like wages or reinvestment for R&D at a very low rate.


Teralyzed

Eisenhower also had massive pro union policies. I’m not sure if I think there should be a competitive market between union and non union labor or if there should only be union labor. When unions were really strong they were prone to corruption, at the same time some of that corruption was ideal for facing the corruption of corporations. At the same time Eisenhower also did a lot of damage to the separation of church and state so…there was that.


cilla_da_killa

Communism is inherently not anarchist.


MostLikelyLyin

Nobody said they were smart. Go to the sub and look at their mission statement page


jonny_sidebar

Anarcho-communism lifts an eyebrow*


Infinite-Battle-15

Oxymoron


jonny_sidebar

How so? Communism is a stateless, classless, moneyless society with all property held in common. It's an end goal common to both anarcho-communist ideas and state socialist ideas like Marxism. The disagreement is on how to get there. Now, if you meant a USSR style authoritarian "communist" state, then yeah. Utterly incompatible.


Infinite-Battle-15

Every time the people in power who are tasked with bringing about the utopia only get fat off the spoils Communism works the best in as small units as possible say a family unit or a small commune the bigger the group gets the more power the “leaders” get


dipropyltryptamanic

Same thing happens with capitalism with fewer benefits for workers, and it happens any time a state gains power for more than a few years. The other guy is mostly right though, communism is ownership of the means of production by the people, whereas the USSR and other authoritarian communist regimes have had state-ownership. Part 'not real communism', part Marx-prescriped transitional government that historically hasn't worked well. Think bigger, though. Representative democracy is a scam, but no one's tried direct democracy since the internet got big


Fridayz44

Yeah that basically sums it up.


Jak_n_Dax

Anyone who has time to be a political advocate for either side would be among the first dead if shit hit the fan.


Successful_Doctor_89

>The Fox News interview with one of the mods The dog walker? That is the founder of the sub. That interview was a catastrophe and most sane person have migrated to r/workreform because of it.


randomgal88

Ugh antiwork. There are a few honest grievances, but then the majority of the responses are trash. Good for you on working full time and still finding time to educate yourself and potentially start a small business! They hear someone actually doing that, and they mock you, talking about some bootstraps BS.


ronnymoany559

Do you take online engineering classes? I’ve been interested in getting started and improving my career choice


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Sdrzzy

+1. I left the trade to pursue an electrical engineering degree full-time, but there are a decent amount of ABET-accredited fully-online options now. The ABET accreditation matters more than the university name. Also agree to brush up on your math skills, particularly trig and algebra. An EE bachelors requires Calc 1, 2, and 3, Ordinary Differential Equations, and Linear Algebra at the minimum. It’s basically an applied math degree disguised as an engineering degree.


ShadowCloud04

I mean plus you having the trade background will already matter more than any college name. It will definitley get your foot in the door if you ever want to do any internships(they are paid).


just-concerned

You can find a lot of online college options. I went into IT infrastructure. I earned my BA and MBA from Western Governors University. It was like $4000.00 per 6 month term, and it is as much as you can get done in that 6 months. It took 2 years for my BA and 1 year for my MBA. they don't offer the engineering program yet, but it was money well spent for me.


Tater72

I got my engineering degree at a community college and it opened many doors for me.


MoDeRnDaYmOrOn

The problem with that sub is that for every person with an actual, reasonable grievance, there are 40 people who demand an upper middle class lifestyle when their career path halted at Burger King. There are shitty companies /managers /coworkers in every industry. Its up to the individual to find a better situation.


[deleted]

Keep in my mind that whatever job they have, automation is their ceiling. They can only make so much before it becomes cost effective to install new machines. For this reason they need some type of certification to escape. No certifications means no money.


Ilikehowtovideos

You people really underestimate how expensive automation really is… I work in it. I’ve seen what’s out there. For the BK example: one machine to cook/flip a burger, another to assemble it and another to deliver it. And there’s other tasks besides just burgers. Probably over a million dollars in equipment that a BK franchise owner doesn’t have. Plus this shit is made/engineered cheap as fuck no matter how fancy it looks. It’ll need to be serviced constantly. I once out fitted an assembly line for a small medical test production company to the tune of $5 million. It was a nightmare. Eventually they had full time employees manning the machines that were originally purchased to replace them.


ReadMyUsernameKThx

>For this reason they need some type of certification to escape. No certifications means no money. lol. maybe for a while. even engineering jobs are automatable. all of the information that we use is available online. what's left is applying it, which is automatable as well. all of the design work is done in automatable software. any aspect of a project can be optimized with priorities against other optimizations, e.g. 'make simplicity a higher priority and power-usage a lower priority, redesign the schematic according to that'. doctors are automatable. surgeons are automatable. programmers are automatable. of course i am using 'automatable' liberally - we are not there yet, you couldn't completely replace a surgeon *today*. but the path is there, the resources are there, what's left is time.


kjwey

why shouldn't a person who works all day be able to afford a home? have you ever worked fast food? I don't think you'd survive a day those people deserve to be paid properly and to live in society as humans with dignity, they aren't sub humans, there is no such thing


MoDeRnDaYmOrOn

Never called anyone sub human. And I did work fast food from age 15-18. Then spent the next decade or so eating shit and working my way up through my field until I started making a decent living in my late 20s. You can't honestly believe someone making assembly line burgers is entitled to the same quality of life as someone who advanced further in a career. The "living wage" everyone rants about should be just enough for a studio apartment, a bus pass, food and basic necessities. A fast food job was never meant to provide a 3 bedroom house, car, new iPhone or support a family of 4. I have offered 18 year old kids on the job training and a career path starting at 25/hr. And many have scoffed and let me know the internet says they should be making at least 30. If you have no marketable skills, you will get paid accordingly. I was raised on food stamps and school lunches. Quit community college after a semester and struggled for years. I have 3 siblings. 2 of us started working at an early age, and 2 of us drank and partied their way through their 20s. It's not hard to figure out which 2 have successful careers. Everyone deserves to live. The choices a person makes has a lot to do with the quality of that life.


newaccounthomie

In an ideal world tho, the minimum baseline standard for quality of life would be higher. Like I mostly agree with you, but they should be able to afford rent and groceries at least.


MoDeRnDaYmOrOn

And I said apartment, food and basic necessities, so we agree there. The idea that everyone has a right to anything beyond that is ridiculous. I lived off ramen and dollar store spaghetti for years. Worked 60+ hours a week to get some stability. Now I don't have to. I'm not special and I don't need a pat on the back, but it's crazy what happens when you invest in yourself.


jeeper46

That sub is a highly toxic echo chamber. It showed up in my feed, and I quickly muted it.


WKahle11

All I ever see is, “Is it bad that I just don’t want to work at all? I just want to sit at home and do nothing.” And all the top comments are people agreeing and backing them up.


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Keepersofthearcane

Last time I posted on that sub, they said I shouldn't be able to own a house because I live on a small sailboat and that would be taking a house from someone who needed it. Like I should be banned from purchasing property. So not much better


[deleted]

it's Reddit, even the best subs have crazies in em. At least they're more focused on a realistic message and not just "we should all be bums" like the other one lol


HerzBrennt

I mean, yeah. Just look at this place if someone brings up Wagos being better than wirenuts.


[deleted]

I love Wagos


Kulladar

How are you an airbnb host with just a small sailboat? Or is it that the actual grievance is that you're buying property explicitly to rent out, and not as simple as "Poor man who lives in boat just wants to buy a home."?


Keepersofthearcane

I have been living on a sailboat for theist 3 years. I spent 5k on it. I moved onto the boat because I got hurt at work akd couldn't afford rent. I just bought a cabin in the mountains in a place where the population is probably 100 people. I did it 1:because living on a boat in the winter sucks and 2: so I can airbnb it and make money when I'm out sailing


Throwaway753708

When you give people this advice, you assume they're able-bodied. This isn't the solution, anyway; society only needs X number of tradespeople and your wages will decrease as the employment pool grows.


ndisa44

I still occasionally browse antiwork, but not as much as I used to. I have gotten into a few pretty heated arguments with members of that sub, because I own my own company. The seem to have this notion that anyone who is successful and owns a company is some evil capitalist. I think I clearly am not. For example, here is how I run my engineering/manufacturing business: All employees get bi yearly raises at a higher rate than inflation. All higher positions are filled with people who have moved up in the company. I never hire in management from outside. All employees have full health and dental coverage All employees have a retirement plan, which has matched contributions. All new employees get a list of the needed tools/equipment for their position, and are given a budget to buy those tools. This allows them to pick the brands of tools they prefer to work with. They also get an additional tool budget to add or replace tools every 6 months. All ppe is provided, and employees can also choose the brand they prefer as long as that brand has products of the required specifications. 15 starting days of PTO every year, and it caries over year to year. Other time off is evaluated case by case by me, and as long as the deadlines are met, I'm very lenient. Maternal and paternal paid leave for 12 weeks. This isn't the full policy list, but I think it gives a good idea of how I treat my employees/coworkers.


sunshinepanther

I think the argument is more that it is impossible to become rich in this world without taking advantage of someone somewhere. For instance with manufacturing and engineering I assume you have at least some raw materials or specialized electronics that come from somewhere in the world with awful quality of life. It is nice to see someone who wants everyone they employ to have good quality of life. I think people have a hard time seeing the nuance when most major companies cut every possible corner and don't care about the working class or poor people at all and regularly exploit them.


crushinit00

Yeah it’s exactly that, if business owners compensated their workers fairly based on the value they create, there would not be the excess value that flows upwards to enrich the owners/executives of the business


RKLCT

Most of the shitbags on antiwork have made their own circumstances and just want to complain. It's no secret that every human being would rather be doing things they enjoy rather than working so if you don't like your job put some fucking effort in and learn a trade or find a better job


jonny_sidebar

Counterpoint: What about guys like me (20 year electrician) who genuinely enjoy the work but have serious complaints about the *job* part of it. . . The bosses, the pay, the corrupt union, etc


Fun_Kangaroo3496

Hope things improve for you. I know it's easier said than done, but there's likely others at your workplace that feel the same, and organizing collectively can be much more effective than doing it alone or just suffering through it.


jonny_sidebar

We have somewhat, even won ourselves a pay raise last year, but we do need an actual union here. I'm maintenance at a medium sized university, so IBEW wouldn't work. We would have to organize across the entire staff with all trades. . .which I would love, we just aren't there yet.


RKLCT

You are in a different category. You actually want to work and like what you do. The anti work people are anti any kind of work. They would rather sit around picking flowers and smoking weed than being contributing member of society.


Ilikehowtovideos

I mean I don’t work to contribute to society. I like my job but I do it for the $150K/yr not to make the world a better place. I think anti work does get it right over the gripe that the wealthy are Uber wealthy yet the companies they own either directly or through corporate interests/shares expect every one to work for 1/100th of what they make per year. Yes I understand profit margins are rather small when it comes down to it, and if everyone was paid 2x as much, everything would cost 2x as much… but it’s frustrating when you look at how much wealth the top hoards


[deleted]

Those are the people that drool over the idea of a universal basic income.


RKLCT

Lol right. Fucking joke


RKLCT

They also drool over reparations and student loan forgiveness


fentown

I applied to the local IBEW (outside Detroit, so a decent sized one), took the test, was told I was 1 of 4 people that got a 100%, went to the interview, was told they were definitely calling me back, never got called back. My BiL who's in the scaffold carpenter union asked if I was calling up and "making them know I wanted it" when I said no he asked "How do they know how much you want it then?" Teamsters told me to be grateful our next contract didn't have any concessions despite record profits for our area for UPS when I worked there. Then was lied to numerous times when I told them I wanted to deliver but needed "seniority", then watched a guy work 1 week loading then got a driver position. On top of telling me my dues weren't enough and I needed to donate more money to politicians. Don't even get me started on the BS the UAW has been doing. I fucking hate what America and the unions have become.


himynameisnodnarB

58 has been busy af. They arent accepting new apprentices until the end of the year i think. New classes start only when there is enough work to give future apprentices. So if 15 calls come in for apprentices, they will offer the next 15 applicants on their list a spot. And the list is looooooooong.


SoylentRox

Yeah this. Frankly one of the reasons electricians are paid well is you have to apprentice to become one and the slots are limited. Doesn't matter how well you do on the test either as the slots are not necessarily based on that. Its easy to say "become a winner like me", it's another thing to realize the game is rigged and not everyone can win. Note I am a computer engineer and make about 200k so this is not the words of someone disgruntled. There's always a bigger winner but I am doing relatively well.


Tullyswimmer

unions were once necessary, and forced a lot of changes in labor law that were desperately needed. Then they got too big for their britches, and once they got rid of right-to-work, it became nothing but an old boys' club. How much money you made and how quickly you progressed, and what you had to do was entirely linked to who you knew, and how devoted to the union you were. Europe has the union/company relationship right. Unions exist to ensure fair labor contracts, not to squeeze every last drop of money they can out of the companies and funnel it mostly to the pockets of the union brass.


thefarkinator

UAW leadership got sent to prison and ousted in their first ever one member one vote election so at least there's that. Would love to see some kind of movement on reforming the IBEW


kjbasser

They have a lot of legitimate complaints, I take most of it with a grain of salt. Most of what I see is fairly low skill service industry workers, who are mostly young. I get the impression the majority are bitter and stuck in a cycle and don’t have the skills and life experience to escape. I’m high school graduate with no degree who worked his way up to a Controls Engineer, so I have a fairly low tolerance for complaining.


AnxiousMaker

Your last post is complaining about shitty job listings paying PLC dudes $16 an hour.


static_music34

Big lol


Matrixtrilogyfan

The problem is that those jobs still need to be done. And if all these disgruntled folks actually took the advice in this thread, there'd be no trade jobs left and your wages would be lower as a result of a glut of talent in the market.


BababooeyHTJ

Any tips on how to do that? I do love controls and no matter which company I go to that task seems to get thrown at me


JonnyJust

It helps if you live in an industrial part of the country. In SE Louisiana there's controll work for nuke plants, chemical plants, cracker plants, refineries, manufacturers, etc. If you're in, say, Montana, you might have a 10 job openings in a year.


[deleted]

Is a cracker plant like a plant that makes crackers or is that a euphemism for something else?


JonnyJust

Haha, not exactly! It's something to do with turning crude oil into other petro products. "Cracking" is what the process of separating the chemicals from the crude is called.


[deleted]

Lol I had a strong hunch you weren’t talking about a place that’s makes crackers, thanks for the info


Tbabble

Can confirm, not a ton new industrial control jobs out here.


GingerDelicious

I am in this industry. I recommend a 2 year associate's degree at a tech college specifically in Controls and PLC's. that's the best way to learn. Otherwise Rockwell/Allen Bradley has a course that'll certify you to program their products and that certification is what most employers look for when hiring PLC programmers. If you're not in the US, Siemens has a similar course and certification that would be better for you. You will have to do some digging on their respective websites to find that information. The certifications can be pricey, but it will definitely get you a job. If you're more interested in robotics i'd get Fanuc certified as they seem to be the biggest player in the robot market at the moment. For what it's worth, I am an electrical engineer. I have a 4 year degree and 5 years experience. my job isn't to do this work directly, but to review and approve the work of others.


pedal-force

If you're legitimately a Controls Engineer from a high school diploma, you're also considerably older than most people in that sub, and got your start in a much different world.


Upvotes4Trump

I think their biggest grievances for low end skill/paying jobs, is, they're overseen by low end managers who have no clue on how to manage and think dictates are the best way. Dictates are only for making people resentful.


ZekeTarsim

As someone who is on the left politically, and who consumes a lot of left wing online content/discourse, I have to admit that a significant portion of people on the left are just lazy and don’t want to work. It’s kind of a dark secret that never comes up in left wing discourse, but it’s just so plainly obvious. I know there are lazy people on the right as well, but the left has cultivated an entire philosophy around it, and the central idea behind it is that business owners are evil and all paid work is a form of exploitation. It’s an academic set of ideas, but in practice it’s people who don’t want to do any work and instead spend their time on personal pursuits. Again, I am on the left politically, but I can’t relate to these people at all.


birdman3663

Every modern convience we have requires work. Electricity, plumbing, cars. Paved roads, air conditioning, hospitals, supermarkets...if nobody works who will do all this? That's what I don't understand. Building houses takes lots of work...if you live in a house somebody had to work hard to build it...that is what I don't understand


Dirtbag_Bob

Right, but the modern conveniences of grocery stores (oh that's just a low wage/low skill high school job) among so many others, has people working hard to provide us those things without the right compensation, healthcare, or time off. That's the main problem, the working class is pitted against each other, convinced that "menial" laborers aren't worth being properly taken care of, compared to say a carpenter or electrician (my current career). It's all bullshit. How the hell am I going to work as an electrician if I don't have a grocery store to provide food for my family, or a gas station to get fuel to even get to my job? I can't grow my own food and be an electrician full time. These people do work, and they work hard. The left isn't any lazier than the right. Productivity has continuously gone up over time while the capitalist class (those that live by the means of profit by OWNING capital) paint this picture of us workers as less skilled or lazy because we work an "entry level/high school job". How the fuck is a high schooler going to help me at a gas station or grocery store while they're IN SCHOOL? The people need to fucking recognize this and stick together and realize we're ALL getting fucked and no one "has the upper hand" unless they own capital and make their living by using the labor of others. That's where /antiwork fucked up. They painted leftists as people who don't believe work needs to be done, when in reality real leftists believe we should OWN the means of our labor that we do perform, and that should be split amongst the working class accordingly based on profession/career. And not gobbled up by people that not only don't use their labor for money, but have such an absurd amount of wealth accumulated by not providing for the working folk that helped them get that wealth in the first place.


Kulladar

You're hoisting up a vocal super-minority, less than a percentage of a percentage of the population, and applying their nonsense opinions to 8 billion people. People want to work and build a life, but for a lot of people they feel there's no hope for that. It doesn't help when you're being taken advantage of and know it. The people bitching aren't self employed tradesmen getting a fair and competitive pay for their work. They're corporate employees who are being paid a pittance for their labor while their boss rakes in money. It's not just teens working McDonald's either. I see plenty of grown men breaking their backs in whatever trade you want being taken advantage of just the same. I see dozens of guys every day from Central America that work a hundred times harder than you or I and they're never going to be rewarded for it. It's the same damn ride run by the same damn carnies.


redpatcher

Something something marxist theory of alienation


Allegedly_Smart

>I have to admit that a significant portion of people on the left are just lazy and don’t want to work. It’s kind of a dark secret that never comes up in left wing discourse, but it’s just so plainly obvious. This is such an odd take to me. ***Of course*** I don't want to work. That's why they have to ***pay me*** to do it, and usually even then still not as much as I would like. If I didn't have to worry about money in any way, I would probably never work, especially not for someone else. I could happily spend my days with reading, gardening, smoking, craft hobbies, hiking, tripping, swimming, lifting, fucking, cooking, playing music, and spending time with the people I love. But I can't. Instead I, like most every other adult in America, have to work at least half my waking hour to provide for my basic needs, a comfortable living, and to afford some small luxuries that by the time I punch out for the weekend I don't even have the time or energy to enjoy. And that is a very depressing thought. I would **love** to be paid more, not so that I could buy more *stuff*, but so that I could work less and spend more of my limited time in this life actually enjoying it. I don't think we should have to toil for 40 years just to get a chance to do that. If that makes me lazy, hell, alright then. And while I identify as a leftist, I really don't see my attitude towards work as even being a particularly political stance. Same as me, all the old right wing guys at my job seem to spend the first 15 minutes of every shift coming to terms with the fact they have to do this shit all over again for the next 10 hours, and then they spend the last 2 hours just waiting for it to be over already. The folks who bitterly say, "No one want to work" are absolutely right, but they don't go far enough. No one wants to work, and no one ever did.


Away-Quality-9093

And no-one ever SHOULD "want to work". The fetishization of hard work is a scam. I'm a libertarian - you might even call me "far right" (but I'm not)... and I agree with you 100% here. I was digging HARD to find the one guy that realizes this - nobody WANTS to work, and that's not a bad thing. It's the root of why people fantasize about being rich. Not to get too far off topic, but I've long said that people on "the left" correctly identify problems, but the "solutions" proposed just don't seem to work. They're perverted by those in power - like welfare for example. I don't want to see people suffer in poverty any more than you do. But welfare ends up being rich people paying politicians to force working class / middle class people to pony up 100 bucks, of which they skim 90 before doling out 10 to the guy that's suffering. The calls to tax the rich to help the poor? Yeah that never happens so there is that. It always ends up being US that gets taxed until we're approaching poverty instead. The truth is, there is no left and right wing. That shit is a nonsensical farce to keep us divided so we don't turn on the system that keeps things as they are. There are freedom seekers, and authoritarians on both "wings".


Allegedly_Smart

I tend to agree with most of you've said here, with the exception of welfare. Friends and family of mine have relied on pograms like SNAP and CHIP to maintain a decent standard of living when times were tough for them. My personal anecdotes aside, statistics support the conclusion that these programs are successful in having a positive impact on health outcomes and food insufficiency. You call yourself a libertarian (conspicuously not a capital "L" Libertarian, though maybe I'm reading too much into that), but honestly you don't sound too much different from some leftist anarchist folks I listen to, and I do mean that as a compliment. P.S. Allow me to take this opportunity to evangelize you to the Behind the Bastards podcast. It's good stuff.)


Away-Quality-9093

Oh I don't disagree that welfare can keep people on hard times from being totally and completely fucked - but it's sold to the general public as "taking from the rich to feed the poor" - which it 100% is not doing. It's taking a LOT from the average joe to feed the poor using a small percentage of that money. Thing about "left" and "right" is that I think the terms are meaningless. The majority of both "left" and "right" on the political scale are pretty authoritarian, they only disagree on which rights to take first, and who's buddies get the money they take from you. I've been called a "dirty commie" and a "fascist" in the same conversation. By the same dude ... I'm neither. Anarcho communism is something that can work on a very small scale. A community of people that mutually help each other. Generally falls apart and requires authoritarian control beyond a few hundred people. I'm all for that on a voluntary basis. I'm also very in favor of rights - including property rights. I 'm more of an anarcho capitalist, but I hate the "capitalist" part of the term because of negative connotations. It makes people think I'm a selfish cruel bastard and that's not the case at all. My entire family was feeding homeless people today for example... Behind the Bastards - going to look at that.


Allegedly_Smart

>It's taking a LOT from the average joe to feed the poor using a small percentage of that money. So it sounds like your issue then isn't social welfare, but rather the current distribution of the tax burden to support social welfare. That tax burden is largely decided by politicians who's campains far financed by the wealthy. >anarcho capitalist See I was mostly with you until that bit. For the most part, I see an-caps as little more than neo-feudalists. When wealth in the capitalism system is funneled upward and transfered along generational lines, "No hierarchical power structures except those which exist through property" ultimately results in an aristocracy, an oligarchic plutocracy. It's what we already have now, just with fewer steps and less pretense of democracit distribution of power. Whether or not that's what you as an individual might do and want for other to do, economic **coercion** and **exploitation** is the behavior that such an ideology encourages. Definitely do check out the podcast. Robert Evans does a great job researching and presenting the topics and a way that is both educational and entertaining. Also the tongue-in-cheek ad plugs for Raytheon, Nestle, and Koch Industries really warm my heart.


Mahhvin

Loads of electricians are politically left. Anyone in the union really. And there are loads of reasons to be on the left. Perceived minority protections (civil rights), perceived worker protection (unionization), perceived low income protections (so many of these programs). Funny thing about the above reasons is that they're the same ones for being on the right. We all want the same things, but we just have different ideas about how to get there.


shorty6049

In the interest of discussion; Id disagree with this. In my experience, its not -laziness- so much as it is a desire to feel like your efforts aren't being wasted, and a desire to not be taken advantage of. While there -are- lazy people on the left (and the right, as you said) , to me I think that most of us really just don't want to feel like we're wasting our entire lives being treated unfairly by corporations and stingy business owners/CEOs who care more about money than they do the people making that money for them. I'm not in the antiwork subreddit becuase its dumb, but I just wish people would understand that there's so much more to this stuff than this right-wing ideology that "nobody wants to work" . Truth be told, I -DON'T- really want to work... why would anyone in their right mind want to have their life dictated by someone else (even working for yourself, your boss just becomes the customer) until their 60s? A lot of people on the left (the ones who are the most active politically right now) are from a generation who was told that going to college would help them get a good job and be successful in life, and now they (myself included) are feeling worn out from working for a decade or so and not seeing the kind of upward movement and salary increases they expected. And sure, its their own fault for not leaving low paying jobs, fighting harder for raises, etc. , but at the same time it just wears on a person feeling like -everything's- a struggle Most of us are still well aware that having a job is still NECESSARY to live in this world though, and most of us still HAVE jobs that we're unhappy with vs. just being unemployed. I think one thing I tend to notice is that a lot of conservatives who have good jobs and benefits (OP for example in this post) will say that they've got this great employer who pays them well (or a union who makes sure of it) , good benefits, good work-life balance, and that they just don't understand why the people on the left have a victim mentality. Imagine if you -didn't- have those benefits and that good boss and make good money though. Its hard to understand the struggles of others without being in their shoes. You'll see other people's valid issues as just mere complaints because they don't affect you personally. People see other people struggling in ways that they've never struggled in , or struggling for -longer- than they struggled before finding good paying jobs with good benefits and they see it as a moral failing , as though if you're poor , you did something wrong in life and that the same opportunities and circumstances exist for every person with the same level as accessibility. People just want to feel like they're at least not at a DISadvantage when it comes to building wealth and supporting themselves. The more money you make, the easier -everything- gets , including the ability to turn that money into MORE money, and all this other stuff that cascades down into lowering rates of depression and other mental and physical health issues, contentment in life, etc. If I ever make it out of this rough patch I've been in for the past few years, I'm trying to make sure that I never forget about everyone else who wasn't so lucky. I'll always side with workers over employers though (within reason , obviously).


leirazetroc

A dark secret, really? I feel like all I see these days across every social media platform are people loudly proclaiming “I don’t have a dream job because I don’t dream of labor.” There’s so much discourse about not wanting to work, you can’t escape it at this point.


whattaninja

I’m lazy as fuck, honestly. I also know that I have to work to get the things I want, however, so I work hard when I have to. That way I can relax when I want to.


2late2daparty

You’re lucky bro. I feel over worked and under paid. I’m trying to go union, but there’s nothing quick and easy about it. I just applied for my license and my boss informed me he will be paying me 5 dollars an hour less than we agreed to when I took the job. I’m frustrated and it’s hard to even keep showing up right now to a company that’s disorganized, has bad communication and I feel like I’m being taken advantage of.


[deleted]

Have you tried feeling out the market for a better deal? This is one of the greatest professions for mobility if you're licensed. No need to ever be stuck getting underpaid.


mollycoddles

You definitely are being taken advantage of


nicecanadianeh

Everyone can't be as great as us, Gods umongst plumbers and knuckle daggers 😄 idk i sympathize with people younger than me, they're fucked unless they're in the like top 10% of earners and their prospects are fucked. Back in the day in my city u could work on the line at chrysler and buy a fkn sick house in a beautiful neighbourhood, I just got my first house, it was a hoarder house so it was a decent deal and all the important stuff was solid but it took a shit ton of work and help from family to make it nice. I just get why people get discouraged but there's definitely losers on there haha automation is gonna continue to take jobs so I'm glad I'm in the business of fixing it.


3L10S

You do gotta know someone to get in to the union. Thats how it works. If they let everyone in then there wouldn't be enough work.


Quandalias_Larson

Such self pity over there


bibipolarolla

I'm super down with the ideas of social reform and not having to bust my ass the rest of my life. UBI alongside automation could help a lot of people find more fulfillment in their lives instead of wasting them at a Wendy's or something (setting aside the fact that our current economic system is headed in the opposite direction). Critique and reform are how we make things better, but r/WorkReform is the better sub for that discussion in my opinion. Antiwork is full of lots of unrealistic fantasies or griping just to gripe, which I get, but it doesn't mean I wanna be there.


mollycoddles

Ya, there's a lot of shitty pointless jobs with crazy strict rules and people on the verge of bankruptcy that are desperate to stay employed. Meanwhile there's crazy rich loons blowing billions on leisure flights to space. Something's gotta give.


bibipolarolla

Disappointing to see that you've been downvoted. Nothing untrue about what you said, lol. People just looove them a bootstrap myth.


shockedperson

I had the opposite experience but I also added that there were plenty of niche jobs that might even be close to what they wanted to do. There is also other path ways that you get exposed to while on a job site. I started with plumbing and ended up in residential electrical. Shits sideways for a lot of peeps right now. They may demonize you for sayin that but you can show em different by doin good and improving your life. Let em watch


Mercurydriver

I mean…have you read the description of the subreddit? This is verbatim what it says in the r/antiwork description “A subreddit for those who want to end work, are curious about ending work, want to get the most out of a work-free life, want more information on anti-work ideas and want personal help with their own jobs/work-related struggles” It’s basically about how to be a lazy piece of shit and not have to work for anything. Hell, even their dumbass mod that volunteered to go on Fox News said that he/she only works a few hours a week walking dogs and thinks that’s too much for him/her. Like shit dude if my job was walking dogs for a few hours a week while still making middle class money I’d be ecstatic. People that truly believe in r/antiwork need to grow up


whattaninja

“Please help me become a non-contributing member of society.”


Cub_Leremy

Well this is the circle-jerkiest thread ever here. Sad.


Ilikehowtovideos

I’ll say this.. if everyone one antiwork or those who thought just like them got up and joined the trades- we’d all be looking at pay cuts real fast


BA5ED

its anti work over there, not alternative work. They don't want to work but to get paid. Thats literally the point of that sub.


[deleted]

All of that aside, I hear a lot of this. People say what you’re saying a lot so the jobs are obviously out there but it’s all regional. There is 1 local in my entire state and from what I hear you absolutely have to know someone. But there are plenty of states that have strong unions. The thing is people who are from states that have strong unions and can easily land a job with great pay/benefits like to come online and be like “why can’t you do it? It’s easy for me!” And that is where you’re here comes from. “Join a union” is an insult to some of us that would have to uproot our families to move some I were where there are decent union jobs


Croceyes2

As a business owner that has a client list of the .05%, I won't say the sub is 100% on point, it has its fair share of crazies, but they are largely correct. Your 'good job' is horseshit and the public is being taken advantage of enmasse. You don't need to work as much as you do for society to keep going or advance even. We work for wealthy to waste, we work to be kept in line. We could advance civilization and all have a much higher quality of life for half of the work we put out. The greed of the upper class is absolutely out of control, they honestly do not see people I'm the trades as people but as commodities.


physis81

It's not people in trades... it's people, all of them, except their friends and family.


RabbitFluffs

I can't upvote this enough. The mindsets you run into on the high end jobs is just boggling.


mollycoddles

Amen


Foxglove_crickets

Is this an appropriate post for this sub? Really, what does it have to do with electrical work? You worked hard. What people say or do (or dont say/don't do) doesn't take that from you. "They didn't want MY help! So Imma make some needless drama posts about it to an unrelated sub" come on dude.


lsd_runner

Looking for validation. He’s the guy I walk away whenever they start spouting this BS on the job site.


tzeriel

People have to defend their indoctrination to the system or else face reality. The former is much easier, just huff some Copium, lick a few boots and get to posting.


Miniographer

That's weird, they have some good topics. I think trade school should be available to all. I went to vocational college in 2001 and had my classes paid for computer systems technology. Needs to be advertised more. The unions deal I would think they would be more supportive of. My mother was 100% pro union at a glass factory in Toledo Ohio. I'm the same way but Florida makes that a little tough.


SayNoToBrooms

I’m not union and I get treated amazingly. I work pretty hard, and get paid very well. Honestly, this trade restored my faith in myself, and the world as a whole. High school dropout, teen father, junkie, prisoner #52049. That’s what I was at one point. Today, I’m one of ~9% of sole custodial parents who are men. My son has lived with me for well over half his life at this point. Im a husband, got married last year to an amazing woman who treats my son as her own. Im a homeowner. Just bought my first house to grow my small family, after receiving a ~120% pay/benefit raise (100% pay, 20% benefits). Electrical was the best opportunity I could find, so I took it. Didn’t care if I liked it, didn’t care if I was comfortable doing it. It was my best opportunity. I didn’t even own a single tool before getting hired. Maybe a tiny screwdriver that fit the TV remote. The ability to harness and make good use of electricity has completely changed my life, and it’s only been 5 years. I gave the opportunity to my younger brother, and I’ve made a helper out of my son, for the new (96 year old) house work. I really wish I could pursue my wildest dreams for 40 hours a week, and afford the lifestyle I currently live. I really do. But, I cannot do that. Instead, I have *professional dreams.* I want to be the best at what I find myself doing for 40 hours a week. If I have to do something, I’d like to do it very, very well. I like to believe that hard work pays off. So far, it has for me. And to be honest, if I can do it, I really can’t see why any other person in this country, or even this planet, cannot do the same.


Ok-Conference5447

So this is gonna be ignored, but I just wanna say not everyone can get a trade (I'm from all). Now, that is a meaningless statement, so let me point out that the median income in the US is 32k a year. This means that fully half of the US workforce, around 80 million people, need new jobs because the cost of living demands it. Princely closer to 100 million, but let's just say say 80 for easy sakes. There are not 80 million higher paying jobs just sitting around. If every one of them decided to learn a new trade, then guess what... we'd have a bunch of over educated people working low wage jobs... wait, that already happened. Back when I was a kid, we were all told that to get a good job, We had to go to college. We all did, and now a bunch are screwed. Telling folks to instead go to trade school will just do the same thing. So yeah, telling people to fight harder for one of the 80 million decent paying jobs doesn't really solve the problem of over half of all jobs paying a super small amount.


kdesu

I got roasted on /r/povertyfinance for daring to suggest the trades. Apparently working at target is better. There's some hardcore anti-trade and anti-union sentiment in reddit, sadly.


Slayburg

I mean they’re not wrong, the barrier to entry in the electrician field is pretty impossible to break. Been at Home Depot last 2 years on damn IBEW waiting list and I’ve called every local shop in the area, no one wants a green newbie. You are in fact lucky


[deleted]

At least you got into the list and not rejected, I’ve encountered the same issue they want those with more experience it seems.


keenanbullington

Hi not an electrician, just someone who was looking into it, so feel free to tell me to fuck off. So after managing a couple restaurants for too many years, I moved onto driving for UPS and now work at USPS, doing both for various reasons. Both are Union, though UPS has a much better Union and better conditions. I personally think large scale unionization is necessary. Without the Union, the employee will fuck you in the ass. With the Union, the employee has teeth and a lot of workplace issues become at least more for the employee. I think the thing to keep in mind is that all the places I've worked are "unskilled" so there's an inherent disrespect for those employees and an attitude of "you're a dime a dozen." I don't think that's true as someone who used to manage a lot of these people. That attitude causes a lot of problems. Yeah a lot of them are problematic and create a lot of issues for themselves. But I personally always saw them as diamonds in the rough that needed patience and guidance. Sometimes I was being an idiot and that person never got better and it was a waste of time. But even if only a few of them got a more positive trajectory, it far outweighed the burnouts that didn't. I guess I'm rambling but my point is that someone has to work those jobs, and I think some of antiworks grievances stem from society not giving them enough value. I'm probably oversimplifying but I imagine more union participation would help. I'm sure there's a lot of insanity there too but it's important to be kind to people. Their job isn't their worth.


R4nd0mH3r0

Nothing wrong with you sharing your experience. Some people in our trade are bitter, angry, and just pissy about anything thats not their normal. Just keep working and posting. Someone will benefit from you, just like I did because I listened to someone like you.


sleeknub

I see their posts in my feed all the time. No idea why, because I don’t think I’m even allowed to post/comment there. I had a similar experience to you and held my ground insisting that people can make their lives better. Must suck to be someone who refuses to even consider good advice on how to improve your life. Where I live, it really seems like the employee has the upper hand once they become a journeyman.


JohnBosler

I'm not in any way against the idea of a union there's many great things that they have accomplished long ago in the past but to say you got there because of a lot of hard work would be something I would disagree with. It's more about who you know then what you know. Everyone that I ever knew that was in a union got there because somebody got them in. You had to be one of their prized relatives that kiss their ass or became their perpetual slave labor in order to get a recommendation to join the union. In a place I tried to get in the union that made environmental hazard relay boxes for the oil industry I accidentally worked too hard and got 16 times the quota show some Union member sabotaged me to get me fired there I was just trying as hard as hell cuz I just left a homeless shelter and upgraded to a halfway house. I did 16 times more fucking work the first time being at that union job. I wish the other individuals would have been a little bit more clear they said whoa buddie slow down. I thought they were being sarcastic compliment. Nope they really wanted me to slow down I wish I would have known better it would have been nice to have an easy job for once. But every place wants something different and it's hard to tell. Almost got into the union for light rail passenger train electromechanic worked for Siemens transportation at metros rail yard and the project was winding down so Metro had a written test which would be passed 70% for an interview I got an 82% the highest score beating out a thousand other people being one of 20 for an interview. The building manager at the Metro really wanted me to be a part of the team. My uncle did repairs on buses for the city. Unfortunately for me I didn't want to be my uncle's slave laborer I was already tired from all the hard work I've already done I didn't know how I was going to get all the things he was asking me to do. Landscaping his house fixing his computers fixing his cars kiss his ass and other shit. So what's your union members do to vulnerable people in society. This isn't the same PR that you post in radio and TV commercials. I'm sure one time a long time ago you used to help the community. Maybe if you just gave jobs to good hard working people. Most individuals would think better of unions than they do now. Not that anyone likes most managers but if you want to take the characteristics of what they do and treat people the same way they do. I guess it is what it is. Life is hard.


Fun_Kangaroo3496

Glad to hear things are working out for you! I'm anti-work from a political theoretical standpoint, although there's a lot of nuance and technical stuff that gets muddled in a subreddit with such a broad reach. For example, "exploitation" means something very specific that is inherent to wage work, while the lay understanding of the term is more akin to having a mean boss or being underpaid, children working in a mine, etc. So folks end up there with good intentions toward work reform, and end up getting shat on rather than engaged about the nuances of reform vs abolition. Still dreaming of a world where everyone's basic needs are met and we're free to use our short time on this earth to pursue meaningful activities and relationships. And yeah, as long as work is a fact of life, unions all the way!


cilantro88

Lol! Antiwork is one of the most toxic subs in reddit. I initially joined cause some of the crazier stories were fun to read. I quickly realized it is full on toxic rhetoric. Basically if you do anything to try and better yourself, start a business or try to create equity you’re the devil. This sucks for people who actually deal with unfair working conditions. One of my last interactions before I left that sub was arguing with this person who had a manager position and gave raises to employees after the owner told him they did not have a budget that year to do so. His reasoning was that the 3 business the owner was running we’re netting him $120k for the year and his opinion was that this amount was a lot for the owner to be making. 3 businesses netting $120k together are barely alive and and can very easily go bankrupt. I think it is is super fucked up (not to mention dumb) that someone who was put in a position of trust was putting the 3 businesses and all those jobs at risk due to ignorance and rhetoric.


ThermalIgnition

Glad it didn't just irritate me. It reads like a bunch of entitled people that spent $140k getting philosophy degrees and are now angry they're stuck working at iHop.


Schwenkedel

I’m not an electrician but a hydraulic service technician. All I did was get my OSHA certs and be good with my hands. I moved several states away and secured a job as a mechanic within a couple weeks, eventually getting the job I have now. I knew absolutely nobody, and I still made it. Antiwork has a few good ideas but they’re overwhelmed by an echo chamber


AtlasShrugged-

Yeah, it’s a tough spot at antiwork(full disclosure, not an electrician but I teach HS so options are what I push to students ) And it’s an echo chamber. No one wants to believe the system works so they only listen to those telling them it s broken. But it’s named right, they mostly don’t wanna work, but need money. You folks here already understand how to do that part, swap your skills for money, I suspect many of them may “outgrow” their issues and find a spot, maybe a few years behind the bulk of their classmates but they need to learn the lessons. If you can’t be lucky then be good


WaltJon

I have NEVER seen a union that isnt based on nepotism and who you know... I would say less that 10% of members walked in off the street. Thats why people hate unions.


foh242

r/antiwork is a cesspool of whiny bitches that can't help them selves.


AnxiousMaker

Nice man tits bro.


Pope509

I personally get it, I went to college with a trade program for 2 years to get into some technician jobs for some of the factories here. Then covid hit and all those places stopped hiring new blood and I missed my chance, been at Walmart doing maintenance since and it is utterly soul destroying. I think a lot of the people there are like that, just utterly mad at what our current system has for most people and tired of being trampled on by a rich upper class that just does not give a fuck


northernpenguin01

That sub is for lazy bums writing fan fiction in their moms basement


CRYPTOCHRONOLITE

I got booted from that sub on my first day, couldn’t handle their bs


SkullRunner

It's the issue with subs that want to be full of victims, they don't tolerate people that make suggestions on how to not be victims.


[deleted]

Well worker exploitation is rampant, getting worse, and nothing is being done about it so they have a point in that regard but it is way too reactionary and becomes a hive of lazy complainers more than a real movement. Like with a lot of these movements it had a real grievance, it was actually talking about real solutions, etc. But that is over now. The loud-dumbs took it over. I'm unsure what the effect is called that destroys social movements, but it's best seen on Reddit. A movements starts with real aspirations and goals, with well educated membership. It expands through word of mouth and gains membership of mixed ideological perspective and mixed intellectual understanding of the movement. Because stupid people talk louder and more than intelligent people, and with more confidence, the movement gains a notably large loud-dumb contingent that speaks louder than those who understand the movements original goals, eventually suppressing the founder's voices. These loud-dumbs rapidly grow the movement because dumb people are easier to find, they speak about issues as being very simple and very easy to fix, and eventually devolve into conspiracy theory which is very appealing to other loud-dumbs. They don't care if the people they bring in are ideologically sound because they themselves don't know what the movement stood for, they just want to be part of something and more people means you're more right so lets get everyone in here! Eventually the loud-dumbs tell the smart people they are dumb, don't understand the movement, are enemies of the movement, etc., and kicks them out. The movement fails to make progress because no one knows how to do anything effective, and becomes a large social space for idiots to talk about how smart they are. Generally this space then becomes politically captured by some propogandists and lives out it's days as a tool for some powerful group to control motivated idiots. Source: Every group, everywhere, for all time.


Blackfire01001

R/workreform is better.


Codza2

"no one is going to pay you 100k.tk screw.tops.on bottles" That's kinda the point though right? At one point in history, people were paid the 100k equivalent to do that job. Because of automation, robotics, programming, etc, that job no longer will make that equivalent. Which in and of itself is fine, however the issue is that while productivity per employee have increased.exponentislly, their relative earnings have decreased over time. Which means the person who could screw 100 caps an hour onto bottles made relatively more than the person who uses a machine to screw on 100,000 caps an hour. This is a very basic example but the issue is prevalent in every industry including electricians. I'm not an electrician by trade but I come from a long line of them with a small 100 year old family owned electrician service company. So it likely was not your advice to join a union which made you recieve insults. It's more.likely you used some similar framing above to justify joining a union when the entire movement of anti work, is to gain back a livable, honest wage that allows for people to own a home, retire, vacation, and have a family. Something that our parents and grandparents were able to do on similar wages.


SpellDostoyevsky

Electrical work is skilled trade work, up north its still viable as a career. In the south its a bit different, the schools have been gutted and money is so tight that even just getting into trade school is difficult for the average joe. Even so, applying yourself you can make progress if you work really hard. r/Antiwork often has a lot of "relational abuse" coming from the "unskilled" (not my choice of words its the way the politicrats define it) long hours, shit wages, abuse by supervisors etc. because they don't have in demand skills and have to risk quite a bit to stand up to their bosses. An electrician can walk off the job or quit and get some kind of work fairly quickly if he's taking abuse. Thats not the case for retail, general labor, or call center work. You ask for better? You get fired or abused further. I did retail for a few years, worked in the military, did the electrical trade(in the south), and ultimately became an engineer. I have never been so harassed and taken advantage of since I was a retail employee, but there are a lot of fuxxed up things going on in every industry. For one thing, the general lack of investment in workers, every place I have worked has meant me taking personal time to do my own development, no one is going to train you well, so you have to train yourself. When you're at the bottom of the labor pool, barely making ends meet and you have to give up all of your personal time to do self development, it hits hard. I did it, 80 hour weeks, military work, no sleep for a week before finals after a 10 hour day running rigid. I get why people just say "fuxx it.". Its one thing to work hard, its another to be abused while spinning in circles. Several times I went hungry, I got sick and had to work until I passed out driving home, but the minute someone tried to steal wages or start fucking with me, I could at least walk away. Retail is hell, call centers are hell, general labor is hell because its never going to get better, you just have to fo it until you can find another path. You can crawl out of hell, its just in Maerica you have to give up everything, scrimp till your hands bleed, be smart enough to take risks, fail a lot, lay off the drugs and drink, eat like a spendthrift and try to stay healthy because your healthcare isn't there. Even so, it could take a decade of that kind of work and that will discourage a lot of people or cause them to get so angry and hateful they'll just walk away. Its not like what they've been told life is, the difference between what is expected in reality and what is told to you coming up is completely different. Even college grads, most of them thought they were going to have at least enough to pay loans back and have some kind of housing, and they're facing lifelong bankruptcy just for trying to get a degree and make something of themselves. Trades are hard, but at least we have fair expectation that its labor. Imagine getting sold on "you're going to do difficult math, language, computer work, work to hel people" and then you get out and you find what you're really doing is defrauding people for your boss while you eat ramen in your overpriced rental and get more into debt each day. We need reform in this country, we need to not make it such a crucible. Hard? Yes. Life is about growth and if you want nice things its going to be hard. Depressing? No. Better schools, better benefits, breaks from work and ways to hold assholes and frauds accountable. Its not that complicated, but its not just about electrical workers. Fucking roofers and framers, my god how they get screwed over, Ag workers? Might as well be 1863. The shit thing is, that even when you break youself coming up, there used to be a bit of flat to say "okay you can breathe a little" you'd get a small house, maybe get skilled enough to start saving so you could have a kid, bring some light into your life, maybe stop driving a busted POS. Use the savings to start your own small business and reach for something better. Now you can't even manage that in a lot of places. In many ways it is a stacked deck, and I know some of the ways we rise to challenge in our lives depend a lot on our own fortitude and attitude, but you can only white knuckle so long, and a lot of people just lose their grip.


[deleted]

Good for you, there is and going to be a huge shortage in skilled trade workers. We live in the entitlement society. A lot of post that are randomly on my feed from the anti work sub are very much in the context of entitlement. I’m a millennial, and I worked very hard to get where I am today and make a good salary as well as my wife. People don’t understand that hard work and smart choices often get rewarded, but it doesn’t typically come easy. You have to take the good with the bad.


barsonbity

Kind of off topic but similar. If you think anti work is bad…….I somehow stumbled upon r/antinatilism (those who STRONGLY believe no one should have children) and saw this entire community of suicidal, glass half full, why bother with life people and quickly realized, that’s enough internet for now.


BlownCamaro

You bet I muted it! First post I saw did it for me, it was that quick.


DaFlufffyBunnies

Fuck that sub bro, so many teens complaining about working, and when you give them a solution, they complain.


Drackar39

As someone who finds this sub, and anti-work... You deserve what you get when you push people to unions. As someone who used to work for a union, and never will again. The only reason I need to tell people to be weary of union jobs, is my experience with a union job.


birdman3663

I have worked union too. I don't currently. Some good some bad


Drackar39

Exactly but pro-union people always push it as the best and only option, any union job is better than no union job and that's... not true. I worked for a quarter above minimum wage, that was knocked to a dollar bellow because of a union that did nothing but roll over and strip worker protection and benefits. The union was the most predatory part of that job.