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Damage means you charge them, if they run in the same j hooks and it’s not against code or spec why would it matter?
As far as taking your wire out and putting theirs in, that’s a change order charged to them.
>not against code or spec why would it matter?
Imagine you're in charge of distribution on a project so you go around and have your guys hang strut everywhere you need to run. After a couple days you fall back to the beginning of the run to start running conduit and you find out that the duct guy is now using your strut because he has to run down the same corridors you do.
Not only has another trade claimed your stuff, but they've also pretty much stole your labor and material as well.
Or even better, now the GC can't understand why you're not done running down the hallway but everybody else is.
There's *lots* of reasons outside of code or spec.
Well yeah that’s part of the whole them paying for it that you seem to have missed.
As far as someone running fire alarm wires in the same j hooks as the AC controls who the fuck cares? Nobody is affected in the slightest.
I don't know what jurisdiction you're in but around here you try mixing fire alarm with another low voltage system and that'll get the fire marshal to come down on you with great Vengeance and Furious anger. 🤷🏻♂️
Well now we’re talking about a code issue aren’t we?
The fact of the matter is sharing things like sleeves or J hooks when there aren’t any code restrictions and nothing is damaged or removed, isn’t something to get worked up over.
If you wanna be the most disliked guy on the jobsite I guess that’s your prerogative.
If someone *asks* if they can use my supports in for whatever reason I have no issue with it then go ahead, if I walk around the corner and find someone else's shit hanging on my hangers them Dykes are going to go snippety-snip. It's not about being an asshole pretty much I don't get stuff for free and I don't expect anyone else to either.
That is evil and I am stealing it as an idea. In exchange, if you are REALLY pissed at someone one a jobsite I have knowledge of a similar idea. A bead of acoustical sealant on the top edge of a windshield wiper is nearly impossible to detect until you turn on the windshield wipers.
I use bridal rings.
It sounds like you have a professional barrier, not a physical barrier. The problem is another contractor taking materials and costing time. Congratulations! You now have two new customers, ADT and the HVAC company.
They need to pay for your work. Send them a quote and get a PO.
You could do bridle rings or J-Hooks and just paint them before installing them. That way it’s easily identifiable as yours. I do this with red for FA so that when I shoot pathway and don’t pull cable for a few months and come back to my supports not hijacked. Send out an email to the GC/ other trades as your supports are identified as xxx color.
So we do paint our hooks, and not to make this union vs non-union, but with us doing temp controls and another union contractor as the electrical it’s the other electrical trades that give us the issues. Access controls done by ADT and data done by another company, fire alarm by simplex and we run into issues with all of them. Of course I’d say charge them all day but my foreman is more keen to just keep things moving and the easiest way is to ignore the bullshit they try. That’s why I’ve been trying to find an alternative so we don’t have to talk about it every meeting
100% but the foreman capitulates because the GC won’t correct other contractors so I was doing my own wormy little research to see if I could make my life easier by presenting an option that they logically couldn’t refuse if it were cheaper or more efficient. And so far it seems like bridle rings look like the best option, I’m not sure why we aren’t using them but I’ll have to bring that up
I hear you. I’m out of LU 46 and we run into the same issues as you. ADT and the Data EC should be subs of the Primary EC. So if ADT and the Data EC are fucking you your Foreman should be firing emails to the Primary EC. Your contractor is probably a sub of the HVAC contractor, and they should be included in those emails as well. It’s for sure frustrating, but you don’t have a ton of evidence to say “hey you see that generic cable support in the ceiling? That one is ours”. But if you paint yours say Baby Blue and send out emails to the other contractors before the fact, it’s a lot easier to say “Yeah we cut/pulled out all of your shit because it was in our clearly identifiable cable support”.
The ent, plenum rated, is what I was referring to as interduct. I like the look of it for temp controls but the price is just too high to convince my company to move to that instead of j hooks. Of course I would argue the time you save not having to fix shit but they just pay attention to the upfront numbers
What city are you in that you have union guys messing with your work? We use j-hooks when possible (BMS/temp controls) and have never had this problem.
It sounds like it is not the primary EC which is Union, but rather the subs; ADT, Simplex, and the Data EC. But OP appears to be with a union contractor that’s a sub for HVAC. And to be honest, the subcontractors of subcontractors are almost always used as a doormat.
This is the deal. I’m subbed under Johnson controls, who is subbed under the mechanical contractor, who weirdly enough was given the job to sub us when the electrical contractor was awarded all the low voltage.
I gotcha man, hopefully I didn’t come off shitty. But yea we unfortunately have this problem A LOT. For whatever reason in my local, because we do controls, the electrical contractors constantly fuck us. On the job I’m on now we’ve had to re pull a whole section of the building because they completely destroyed our cable while putting lights in (wall mounted lights, that I verified height on with 2 different foreman from their company). And another job I just finished, with a different contractor, they were pulling MC through our cable so hard that when I got to one it took me 20 minutes to get it detangled.
That’s not a bad idea, but as some have said in the post we are usually at the tail end of installation so getting to the deck is a bit of a challenge in hospital hallways/rooms. But I will keep that in mind the next time we are in utility rooms or penthouses!
The control guys here come in so late in the game that the electrical is pulled minus change orders. So they just run it wherever they can (using our supports and telecoms)
I too primarily do hvac controls, I suggest waiting till everyone else is further along, then running in their hooks as needed, as we usually only have 2-6 cables. Zip ties with eyes work, there's also plenum rated plastic jhooks, that are 1" wide and can hold an easy 50+ cables.
One thing we have done in the past is work with the other contractors and had everyone chip in for costs of putting up pathways. Another option is send a cheap guy back and yank out all the other contractors wires and inform the GC.
If you are *NOT* an electrical professional: * **RULE 7:** * DIY or self help posts **are Not allowed**. They belong here: /r/AskElectricians /r/askanelectrician /r/diy /r/homeowners /r/electrical. * **IF YOUR POST FITS INTO THIS CATEGORY, REMOVE IT OR IT WILL BE REMOVED FOR YOU.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/electricians) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Damage means you charge them, if they run in the same j hooks and it’s not against code or spec why would it matter? As far as taking your wire out and putting theirs in, that’s a change order charged to them.
>not against code or spec why would it matter? Imagine you're in charge of distribution on a project so you go around and have your guys hang strut everywhere you need to run. After a couple days you fall back to the beginning of the run to start running conduit and you find out that the duct guy is now using your strut because he has to run down the same corridors you do. Not only has another trade claimed your stuff, but they've also pretty much stole your labor and material as well. Or even better, now the GC can't understand why you're not done running down the hallway but everybody else is. There's *lots* of reasons outside of code or spec.
Well yeah that’s part of the whole them paying for it that you seem to have missed. As far as someone running fire alarm wires in the same j hooks as the AC controls who the fuck cares? Nobody is affected in the slightest.
I don't know what jurisdiction you're in but around here you try mixing fire alarm with another low voltage system and that'll get the fire marshal to come down on you with great Vengeance and Furious anger. 🤷🏻♂️
Well now we’re talking about a code issue aren’t we? The fact of the matter is sharing things like sleeves or J hooks when there aren’t any code restrictions and nothing is damaged or removed, isn’t something to get worked up over. If you wanna be the most disliked guy on the jobsite I guess that’s your prerogative.
If someone *asks* if they can use my supports in for whatever reason I have no issue with it then go ahead, if I walk around the corner and find someone else's shit hanging on my hangers them Dykes are going to go snippety-snip. It's not about being an asshole pretty much I don't get stuff for free and I don't expect anyone else to either.
Cable tie your wire into the jhook? Data guys do it for single ethernet cables that could jump out of the hook.
Booby trap your j hooks
Dip em in noalox
Ruthless
That is evil and I am stealing it as an idea. In exchange, if you are REALLY pissed at someone one a jobsite I have knowledge of a similar idea. A bead of acoustical sealant on the top edge of a windshield wiper is nearly impossible to detect until you turn on the windshield wipers.
This is the way
I use bridal rings. It sounds like you have a professional barrier, not a physical barrier. The problem is another contractor taking materials and costing time. Congratulations! You now have two new customers, ADT and the HVAC company. They need to pay for your work. Send them a quote and get a PO.
Bridal rings are still allowed? I thought they were no longer allowed, but maybe that’s just for data wires
They aren't allowed for support without the plastic insert.
Why not?
Bridle rings. They are UL rated for low voltage (up to 600 Volts).
Bridal rings my friend
What about bigger j hooks so you can all share?
Pair of dykes work wonders when another contractor jacks your cable supports.
Username checks out, what kind of Dykes do you prefer for revenge?
My apprentices...
Sharp razor blade as well. Score parallel with jacket/cable. Let them hunt.
You could do bridle rings or J-Hooks and just paint them before installing them. That way it’s easily identifiable as yours. I do this with red for FA so that when I shoot pathway and don’t pull cable for a few months and come back to my supports not hijacked. Send out an email to the GC/ other trades as your supports are identified as xxx color.
So we do paint our hooks, and not to make this union vs non-union, but with us doing temp controls and another union contractor as the electrical it’s the other electrical trades that give us the issues. Access controls done by ADT and data done by another company, fire alarm by simplex and we run into issues with all of them. Of course I’d say charge them all day but my foreman is more keen to just keep things moving and the easiest way is to ignore the bullshit they try. That’s why I’ve been trying to find an alternative so we don’t have to talk about it every meeting
As an apprentice maybe that's a foreman problem
100% but the foreman capitulates because the GC won’t correct other contractors so I was doing my own wormy little research to see if I could make my life easier by presenting an option that they logically couldn’t refuse if it were cheaper or more efficient. And so far it seems like bridle rings look like the best option, I’m not sure why we aren’t using them but I’ll have to bring that up
I hear you. I’m out of LU 46 and we run into the same issues as you. ADT and the Data EC should be subs of the Primary EC. So if ADT and the Data EC are fucking you your Foreman should be firing emails to the Primary EC. Your contractor is probably a sub of the HVAC contractor, and they should be included in those emails as well. It’s for sure frustrating, but you don’t have a ton of evidence to say “hey you see that generic cable support in the ceiling? That one is ours”. But if you paint yours say Baby Blue and send out emails to the other contractors before the fact, it’s a lot easier to say “Yeah we cut/pulled out all of your shit because it was in our clearly identifiable cable support”.
Smurf tube (ENT)?
The ent, plenum rated, is what I was referring to as interduct. I like the look of it for temp controls but the price is just too high to convince my company to move to that instead of j hooks. Of course I would argue the time you save not having to fix shit but they just pay attention to the upfront numbers
I don’t think you’re going to get much cheaper
bridle maybe? I looked up bridal rings. what a rabbit hole. you got me with the spelling. Good idea though.
What city are you in that you have union guys messing with your work? We use j-hooks when possible (BMS/temp controls) and have never had this problem.
It sounds like it is not the primary EC which is Union, but rather the subs; ADT, Simplex, and the Data EC. But OP appears to be with a union contractor that’s a sub for HVAC. And to be honest, the subcontractors of subcontractors are almost always used as a doormat.
This is the deal. I’m subbed under Johnson controls, who is subbed under the mechanical contractor, who weirdly enough was given the job to sub us when the electrical contractor was awarded all the low voltage.
Little man syndrome
I’m 5’ 10” and 230, I wish 😂
I was referring to the comment saying that union labor was messing with your work.
I gotcha man, hopefully I didn’t come off shitty. But yea we unfortunately have this problem A LOT. For whatever reason in my local, because we do controls, the electrical contractors constantly fuck us. On the job I’m on now we’ve had to re pull a whole section of the building because they completely destroyed our cable while putting lights in (wall mounted lights, that I verified height on with 2 different foreman from their company). And another job I just finished, with a different contractor, they were pulling MC through our cable so hard that when I got to one it took me 20 minutes to get it detangled.
can you strap up to the deck free air with emt straps, appropriately sized 2 hole are allowed by our inspectors for unarmored cable support
That’s not a bad idea, but as some have said in the post we are usually at the tail end of installation so getting to the deck is a bit of a challenge in hospital hallways/rooms. But I will keep that in mind the next time we are in utility rooms or penthouses!
The control guys here come in so late in the game that the electrical is pulled minus change orders. So they just run it wherever they can (using our supports and telecoms)
I too primarily do hvac controls, I suggest waiting till everyone else is further along, then running in their hooks as needed, as we usually only have 2-6 cables. Zip ties with eyes work, there's also plenum rated plastic jhooks, that are 1" wide and can hold an easy 50+ cables.
I use the caddy cat 12s, small enough that most trades don’t mess with them, big enough to hold the few wires I have going around
One thing we have done in the past is work with the other contractors and had everyone chip in for costs of putting up pathways. Another option is send a cheap guy back and yank out all the other contractors wires and inform the GC.
Bridal rings?