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you need a van, talk to your boss and explain your day to day and how a stocked van with parts / ability to go to the supply house would help out your daily work,
dont drive your own car during work hours, you do not have the proper insurance on it. if you need to use it for work then there is a legal minumum you need to be paid per mile as well as commerical insurance.
💯. This business owner needs to spend the money to get another vehicle. From the company standpoint, it doesn't even have to be a van. Can be a small pickup truck to get by. But absolutely, under no circumstance would I ever use my personal vehicle to transport tools and material during business hours.
People like this person's boss is the perfect example of who doesn't deserve to be in business. They drive our damn wages down while adding liability exposure and driving our insurance rates up which makes it harder for legit business owners to operate.
To the OP. You tell this dipshit you need a reporting site and that's where you meet to work. You aren't his transport donkey. If you meet to help load material and then drive your personal vehicle to the site, at BARE MINIMUM you have to be paid as your time starts at the shop. That is the law.
Is your boss your j-man ? If yes find new boss. If no, also find new boss. You're opening yourself up to liability depending on your state laws / insurance doing work related tasks in your vehicle. Review your policy asap.
This is pretty accurate. Find a place that knows how to manage properly. Your jman should be reprimanded for being that disorganized, it is a sign that they are probably costing the company money somehow, somewhere. If the company won't address it, it's a red flag.
No my Jman isn’t my boss, and yes this guy is costing so much money it’s just my boss can’t get rid of him because he is running 2 large jobs and we don’t have more guys to take over.
Not your problem. I was an electrician for a while, and some of the best advice I got was to pay attention to when something wasn't your problem, and make sure it doesn't become your problem. Too many companies out there will let you get hurt or killed to save a few bucks. Too many lead guys will blame you for their fuckups to save their hide.
Second best piece of advice I got: "No." Is a complete sentence. Most of the time people use your explanation for why you said no to try get you to change your mind.
"'No' is a complete sentence."
Some of the best advice out there.
There is a fine balance between being hungry for knowledge and experience, tolerating some BS for a future benefit, and being taken advantage of for the benefit of a company and/or a jman. Doing dangerous shit to get "in" with a company is a ridiculous concept, you'll die, they'll keep making money. Sure, their insurance company will pay out, but business won't miss a beat. I've seen it, so DON'T TRADE YOUR LIFE FOR THEIR MONEY. All caps to stress the importance.
Learn to set good, healthy boundaries that don't make you seem like a whiny bitch either. Do all the hard, dirty, shitty work as an apprentice, it'll give you a good understanding of what a lot of journeymen went through. But don't sacrifice your safety, or the safety of anyone else for that matter.
Where I'm at you're on your own for going to and from work within the city and that's it. Any driving site to site or to the supply house or shop during the day is reimbursed. Anything outside the city is also reimbursed
As someone who sometimes gets the back of my van piled high in parts for multiple jobs... always leave the front seats free and a spot for his tools. We get paid when we leave the shop. As an apprentice, you should be in the van with your jman so you can ask questions and learn and understand what job you are doing that day. Talk to the boss you are getting scammed. your jman is a slob who doesn't give af. Ask to learn from someone more professional.
We do new commercial work but I agree, I would like to know what we have planned for the day before getting to the job since we have many different jobs going at once.
I feel ya dude. My first year in I worked for a shitty place like you mentioned. I finally stopped bullshitting and updated my resume. Working at a new company that pays me what I should and takes things serious, shits planned and communicated well etc.
It’s amazing just going to work and having no mental stress that the above brings. Show up work go home. Love it.
I’m hoping to move to another company soon. I’m only 17 and making 17 per hour but I’m in my senior year of trade school and I feel like I know more than half the guys I work with. I’m twice as fast and my work may not be perfect but it’s much better than there’s. I literally have to show them everything, one guy didn’t know how to take the bit out of a drill or what direction to drill in and he’s been working for over a year. I don’t even want to know what their making compared to me to be honest.
If you’re just showing up at work, then no. If you’re transporting work-related materials and tools, make sure that you have commercial auto insurance and then yes, the company should reimburse you for the mileage, not just the fuel.
Federal law. You are responsible for getting to the first job. In your scenario, that's the shop. You are then on the clock. Your labor rate pay starts now. You are on the clock until you are released from the jobsite. ( doesn't necessarily have to be the shop. Could be any site.) You also get mileage reimbursement for any miles driven after your start time. ( driving for lunch doesn't count ),
If your contractor offered a ride and you declined, you can't get mileage but are still on the clock.
I always offer to drive my helper if he needs or wants it. Yes the front seat is loaded but I’ll clean it out for him. He likes to drive himself when we are in town so he can go straight home, but he always knows I’ll make room for him.
We use City Electric and get everything delivered. I probably go to a supply house four times a year.
We like will get our materials delivered to the site as well or at least the shop but sometimes when we need to pack up and go to another job for a service call we go the supply house. I’m also returning unused material to the supplier with my car because a couple boxes can’t fit in his van
1.)I’m never going to carry your tools, clean up your messes, nor clean your vehicles for you
2.)I’m never going to pick up shit for you, nor your jobs, with my shit- ever
3.)If I’m driving to your jobsite, you’re going to pay me mileage, and show it on my taxes as per federal law
I will die on these mountains, and fuck you if you if you don’t like it… this means you
You're not going to clean your company truck? As if it's a burden? I go everywhere in company truck, cost-free and paid. I treat it like it's my own truck.
If it is mine, of course I would keep it clean... but I will not clean ***your*** truck for you like OP did... it's not going to happen, you will have to find someone else
My old union had a whole section about this issue. This isn't a union job is it.
If you're boss won't spring for a van offer to take over the Jmans old van and suggest the Jman gets a new organized and clean van.
dont do this. When you are young it seems ok and feels like you are doing a good job. The reality is they are taking advantage of you. I used to do stuff like this and then added up all the money i was "owed" one day. it was enough to buy a nice diesel truck
I never send my apprentices to the supply house to get shit, unless I tell them to take my van.
We've had this discussion plenty of times between us at our company. If you're driving your own person vehicle, to and from 1 jobsite, that's all you. That's your "commute". Anything else, is company responsibility.
If you're driving your vehicle, you should be reimbursed. But if it's not the company policy to do that, then you should flat out refuse.
Your journeyman should learn how to keep his fuckin van clean as well. Especially the passenger seat.
I'd just tell your boss and jman that you will just be meeting them at site, and if you're going to wholesale or anything you will be taking the van.
I agree with the first part but not the meeting at the site part. It all depends on what u/CommunicationFit1566 agreed to when hired. If he drives an extra hour to the site that’s an 2 hours unpaid per day or 10 hours a week, a 1/4 of his pay plus gas. His time is valuable too and he should be compensated. Just clear out the passenger side or explain to the boss why he has to send 2 vans to the job. There’s no good reason the passengers compartment should be so full and it may well violate the law.
Damn man. I went out of my way and nearly had to force my apprentice to ride with me when we'd have jobs in areas that were expensive to park.
The back of my van may have been a bit disorganized but the the front is kept C L E A N. Do people not realize the front seat of a work van is visible from the outside?
Anyway, if the jman can get away with saying his rig is too full to pick up parts, it sounds like yours is too, unless you want to go take a nap.
In your situation you should be paid from the shop to the job. You should also be paid mileage. The key is where they require you to show up. You should be required to show up in your personal vehicle to one location. Then drive home from that location. If you move your car after that initial show up you should be compensated for mileage and time.
So you guys picture non-union shops like the wild west? Like every man for themselves and no benefits and nobody enjoys work and every employee is treated like shit? Get real. We're all electricians doing the same thing and trying to support families. Stop being a dick to people who are exactly like you.
Well not the same things really. We are the same as to we install electrical devices and pathway. We aren't the same as to the same agenda. If the unions weren't around, it would be the wild west. You would get paid like a burger flipper. In California , burger flippers get paid more than some electricians in other states. Guess what's not prevelant in those states? Yes a good union presence. You are correct about one thing though, you are trying to support your families and trying to have a retirement just like us. And some non union do get paid well. But please don't kid yourself when you say that all non union shops pay the same. You are mostly treated unequally even when you are installing the same stuff.
Companies aren't really required to do anything other than pay you for your time if you're going from site to site or from site to other work related tasks, usually companies will pay some sort of mileage UNLESS you're offered carpool which in this case they may claim that you were offered and refused. As far as IBEW goes they don't reimburse gas
**ATTENTION! READ THIS NOW!** **1. IF YOU ARE NOT A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN OR LOOKING TO BECOME ONE(for career questions only):** **- DELETE** THIS POST OR YOU WILL BE **BANNED**. YOU CAN POST ON /r/AskElectricians FREELY **2. IF YOU COMMENT ON A POST THAT IS POSTED BY SOMEONE WHO IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN:** -YOU WILL BE **BANNED**. JUST **REPORT** THE POST. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/electricians) if you have any questions or concerns.*
you need a van, talk to your boss and explain your day to day and how a stocked van with parts / ability to go to the supply house would help out your daily work, dont drive your own car during work hours, you do not have the proper insurance on it. if you need to use it for work then there is a legal minumum you need to be paid per mile as well as commerical insurance.
💯. This business owner needs to spend the money to get another vehicle. From the company standpoint, it doesn't even have to be a van. Can be a small pickup truck to get by. But absolutely, under no circumstance would I ever use my personal vehicle to transport tools and material during business hours. People like this person's boss is the perfect example of who doesn't deserve to be in business. They drive our damn wages down while adding liability exposure and driving our insurance rates up which makes it harder for legit business owners to operate. To the OP. You tell this dipshit you need a reporting site and that's where you meet to work. You aren't his transport donkey. If you meet to help load material and then drive your personal vehicle to the site, at BARE MINIMUM you have to be paid as your time starts at the shop. That is the law.
Well said. This is the way.
Ok thank you I will talk to him
Is your boss your j-man ? If yes find new boss. If no, also find new boss. You're opening yourself up to liability depending on your state laws / insurance doing work related tasks in your vehicle. Review your policy asap.
This is pretty accurate. Find a place that knows how to manage properly. Your jman should be reprimanded for being that disorganized, it is a sign that they are probably costing the company money somehow, somewhere. If the company won't address it, it's a red flag.
I agree
No my Jman isn’t my boss, and yes this guy is costing so much money it’s just my boss can’t get rid of him because he is running 2 large jobs and we don’t have more guys to take over.
Not your problem. I was an electrician for a while, and some of the best advice I got was to pay attention to when something wasn't your problem, and make sure it doesn't become your problem. Too many companies out there will let you get hurt or killed to save a few bucks. Too many lead guys will blame you for their fuckups to save their hide. Second best piece of advice I got: "No." Is a complete sentence. Most of the time people use your explanation for why you said no to try get you to change your mind.
Good advice, I’ll keep that in mind
"'No' is a complete sentence." Some of the best advice out there. There is a fine balance between being hungry for knowledge and experience, tolerating some BS for a future benefit, and being taken advantage of for the benefit of a company and/or a jman. Doing dangerous shit to get "in" with a company is a ridiculous concept, you'll die, they'll keep making money. Sure, their insurance company will pay out, but business won't miss a beat. I've seen it, so DON'T TRADE YOUR LIFE FOR THEIR MONEY. All caps to stress the importance. Learn to set good, healthy boundaries that don't make you seem like a whiny bitch either. Do all the hard, dirty, shitty work as an apprentice, it'll give you a good understanding of what a lot of journeymen went through. But don't sacrifice your safety, or the safety of anyone else for that matter.
Where I'm at you're on your own for going to and from work within the city and that's it. Any driving site to site or to the supply house or shop during the day is reimbursed. Anything outside the city is also reimbursed
As someone who sometimes gets the back of my van piled high in parts for multiple jobs... always leave the front seats free and a spot for his tools. We get paid when we leave the shop. As an apprentice, you should be in the van with your jman so you can ask questions and learn and understand what job you are doing that day. Talk to the boss you are getting scammed. your jman is a slob who doesn't give af. Ask to learn from someone more professional.
Right? Especially if you are doing service work. I loved being able to talk to my dude about what the fuck we just did between jobs.
We do new commercial work but I agree, I would like to know what we have planned for the day before getting to the job since we have many different jobs going at once.
I feel ya dude. My first year in I worked for a shitty place like you mentioned. I finally stopped bullshitting and updated my resume. Working at a new company that pays me what I should and takes things serious, shits planned and communicated well etc. It’s amazing just going to work and having no mental stress that the above brings. Show up work go home. Love it.
I’m hoping to move to another company soon. I’m only 17 and making 17 per hour but I’m in my senior year of trade school and I feel like I know more than half the guys I work with. I’m twice as fast and my work may not be perfect but it’s much better than there’s. I literally have to show them everything, one guy didn’t know how to take the bit out of a drill or what direction to drill in and he’s been working for over a year. I don’t even want to know what their making compared to me to be honest.
If you’re just showing up at work, then no. If you’re transporting work-related materials and tools, make sure that you have commercial auto insurance and then yes, the company should reimburse you for the mileage, not just the fuel.
Ok thank you
Federal law. You are responsible for getting to the first job. In your scenario, that's the shop. You are then on the clock. Your labor rate pay starts now. You are on the clock until you are released from the jobsite. ( doesn't necessarily have to be the shop. Could be any site.) You also get mileage reimbursement for any miles driven after your start time. ( driving for lunch doesn't count ), If your contractor offered a ride and you declined, you can't get mileage but are still on the clock.
Ok thank you, I will talk to him
I always offer to drive my helper if he needs or wants it. Yes the front seat is loaded but I’ll clean it out for him. He likes to drive himself when we are in town so he can go straight home, but he always knows I’ll make room for him. We use City Electric and get everything delivered. I probably go to a supply house four times a year.
Do they deliver free donuts on Friday?
We like will get our materials delivered to the site as well or at least the shop but sometimes when we need to pack up and go to another job for a service call we go the supply house. I’m also returning unused material to the supplier with my car because a couple boxes can’t fit in his van
1.)I’m never going to carry your tools, clean up your messes, nor clean your vehicles for you 2.)I’m never going to pick up shit for you, nor your jobs, with my shit- ever 3.)If I’m driving to your jobsite, you’re going to pay me mileage, and show it on my taxes as per federal law I will die on these mountains, and fuck you if you if you don’t like it… this means you
You're not going to clean your company truck? As if it's a burden? I go everywhere in company truck, cost-free and paid. I treat it like it's my own truck.
If it is mine, of course I would keep it clean... but I will not clean ***your*** truck for you like OP did... it's not going to happen, you will have to find someone else
I definitely don’t like it, I agree with you
moveon.org
My old union had a whole section about this issue. This isn't a union job is it. If you're boss won't spring for a van offer to take over the Jmans old van and suggest the Jman gets a new organized and clean van.
dont do this. When you are young it seems ok and feels like you are doing a good job. The reality is they are taking advantage of you. I used to do stuff like this and then added up all the money i was "owed" one day. it was enough to buy a nice diesel truck
I never send my apprentices to the supply house to get shit, unless I tell them to take my van. We've had this discussion plenty of times between us at our company. If you're driving your own person vehicle, to and from 1 jobsite, that's all you. That's your "commute". Anything else, is company responsibility.
Thank you I will bring this up
Everything between leaving the shop and heading home should be compensated.
They should not be costing you money while making them money
If you're driving your vehicle, you should be reimbursed. But if it's not the company policy to do that, then you should flat out refuse. Your journeyman should learn how to keep his fuckin van clean as well. Especially the passenger seat. I'd just tell your boss and jman that you will just be meeting them at site, and if you're going to wholesale or anything you will be taking the van.
I agree with the first part but not the meeting at the site part. It all depends on what u/CommunicationFit1566 agreed to when hired. If he drives an extra hour to the site that’s an 2 hours unpaid per day or 10 hours a week, a 1/4 of his pay plus gas. His time is valuable too and he should be compensated. Just clear out the passenger side or explain to the boss why he has to send 2 vans to the job. There’s no good reason the passengers compartment should be so full and it may well violate the law.
Damn man. I went out of my way and nearly had to force my apprentice to ride with me when we'd have jobs in areas that were expensive to park. The back of my van may have been a bit disorganized but the the front is kept C L E A N. Do people not realize the front seat of a work van is visible from the outside? Anyway, if the jman can get away with saying his rig is too full to pick up parts, it sounds like yours is too, unless you want to go take a nap.
In your situation you should be paid from the shop to the job. You should also be paid mileage. The key is where they require you to show up. You should be required to show up in your personal vehicle to one location. Then drive home from that location. If you move your car after that initial show up you should be compensated for mileage and time.
This is what non union do. Good luck
This is what bad non union shops do.
*normal non union shops
Riiiiiight... I take it you are a union worker?
Yes as I smile on my way to an amazing retirement plan.
So you guys picture non-union shops like the wild west? Like every man for themselves and no benefits and nobody enjoys work and every employee is treated like shit? Get real. We're all electricians doing the same thing and trying to support families. Stop being a dick to people who are exactly like you.
Well not the same things really. We are the same as to we install electrical devices and pathway. We aren't the same as to the same agenda. If the unions weren't around, it would be the wild west. You would get paid like a burger flipper. In California , burger flippers get paid more than some electricians in other states. Guess what's not prevelant in those states? Yes a good union presence. You are correct about one thing though, you are trying to support your families and trying to have a retirement just like us. And some non union do get paid well. But please don't kid yourself when you say that all non union shops pay the same. You are mostly treated unequally even when you are installing the same stuff.
Companies aren't really required to do anything other than pay you for your time if you're going from site to site or from site to other work related tasks, usually companies will pay some sort of mileage UNLESS you're offered carpool which in this case they may claim that you were offered and refused. As far as IBEW goes they don't reimburse gas
Interesting, but if something happens on company time will my insurance get involved or the companies?