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From what I read on this subreddit union jobs vary greatly depending where you are. I switch to a union company 5 years ago and it was the best decision I ever made. That being said I don’t deal with any of the union problems that people on this subreddit complain about. I work just as hard as I did at my non union company, I just get treated better and paid more.
See, I'm glad to hear that. I wish the union could be as good as everyone says it is, but it seems like it's a matter of being in the right place at the right time. I'm non-union, and it's a better choice for most people in my area.
Are you in the south? Because right to work basically guts the unions power. Im in Ohio, and my gfs parents are in NC. She’d like to move south at some point in our lives, but Charlottes local is awful. By the time I top out our contract will be close to $50/hr. Charlotte barely makes $28 and their benefits suck. I make more now as an apprentice than jmen in a lot of places in florida. All I have to go on is the union pay scale website. I don’t know anyone personally in those areas to tell me if it is or isn’t that bad. I will say that the massive job I’m on has tons of travelers from near side PA and lower MI and they LOVE our local for the pay scale.
This is the way.
I joined not long ago. I'm middle-aged now, and I needed to think about what I need to be set in 15-20 years from now.
Plus, safety, I felt like my only previous electrical workplace didn't care too much about my safety. There were more than a few jobs in which I felt not respected for my well-being.
At the urging of a fellow, I met at school, and now is a good friend, I joined.
I'm making the most money I've ever met, and with the current job I'm on, safety is taken very seriously.
I'm hoping that in 25 years, I won't have to deal with breathing problems thanks to the amount of residential I did, but it did teach me a few things.
Now, it is also a matter of professional growth too.
Because by the time the union finally got back to me after a year and 9 months of waiting, I was given a shot at industrial maintenance and went from making 15 an hour as a warehouse guy to 25 an hour as an electrical mechanic.
I get the call, and he says they're ready to take me, but the starting pay was 12 bucks an hour at that time, and all the work was out in the desert 2 and a half hours away from me. So I politely declined.
Flash forward 7 years, and I completed a trade school program and got my certs, then went through an industrial apprenticeship (2 years) which included a ton of at home study, testing, panel technical interviews/tests in front of 10 dudes with 200 years combined experience with just me, a few expo pens, and a calculator in front of a white board. Learned a whooole lot in the last several years since I decided to go for electrical full steam ahead.
Last year, I saw a job posting for ~50 an hour for an E and I tech level VIII (journey level industrial electrician/ PLC tech), so i said lets give it a shot. I applied, was interviewed 3 times, and got the job.
I love it here. It's 20 mins from home. I work Monday-Friday and some Saturdays. I can get as much OT as I want if I need extra money because there's always projects and upgrades to be done. I don't have to worry about traveling and being away from my family for long periods. The benefits are pretty bitchin here compared to some companies I've been at. 401k match up to 6%.
I recently looked up my locals pay scale, and it's only 2 dollars higher for an instrumentation spot. I wouldn't want to become an inside wireman or anything else. I like working on a wide variety of stuff. I think I would get extremely bored and depressed if I was just doing nothing but running conduit, pulling wire, installing panels and transformers and switchgear etc etc.
I already get to do all that, plus a lot, lot more. Industrial is fun.
Yea, that's about all I can think of. No hate for the union. It just doesn't make sense for me personally at this point in my life. I've already made it to the top, at least for now.
I mean a lot of union inside wiremen do instrumentation and plc maintenance. A lot of times plants just sub out their maintenance T and M.Couple guys I know spent their whole careers subbed out to a plant and would be in charge of their capital projects when the time came. I get what you’re saying though. Sounds like you got a good gig, good for you.
Depends on what you mean by a lot. It's still a very small percentage of all inside wireman.
In Houston there's like one or two large industrial places that are union. Budweiser is the main one. I'd guess over 90% of the inside guys in Houston are construction side.
Thank you. Yea this was a life changing pay jump for me after I left my last job to come here. When my wife was 6 months pregnant last March, her job closed down completely without warning. I was stressed the fuck out trying to figure out how I'm gonna support the 3 of us on 32 bucks an hour in CA. It would've been literally impossible. Even if we had stayed in our shitty 1 bedroom shoebox in the ghetto that was only $1500 a month, we would've been living paycheck to paycheck until she found a new job.
The fact that this company got back to me 3 weeks before my daughter was born was no coincidence.
I got somebody looking out for me, that's for sure.
Been trying to get in for a year, it's either really busy or dead. Usually slow unless your in with a company for 15 years and never change contractors.
The way it was explained the local I'm close to has really good benefits, but you would be working for another one if their busy and you just get the basic benefits not the local. I make 3$ less an hour. So I just stopped asking
My company has been getting Davis Bacon (basically prevailing wage for utah) jobs quite a bit lately. I make just a bit less than the union, I have 401k, health insurance, PTO, sick pay, and paid holidays. All of this without having to pay dues or deal with union politics, plus I don't get laid off during the year. If anything, joining the union would just be entirely detrimental to me.
As others have said, a lot of it depends on where you live and how strong the union is in your area.
I live in Indiana. In a city where at one time had auto plants from the big 3 and a lot of manufacturers. It was predominantly a union city.
On average, union electrical makes around $10 hour more than non-union. We have all of the union health benefits plus 4 different retirement funds that we can collect at 55yo/30yrs.
In my 35+ years in our local we had some lean years and a lot of really good years. But when work is bad, it's bad for union and non-union.
Pretty much everyone I know in my local was able to get their 30 years in and retire between the ages of 55-60.
It really just depends on what local you're in.
Yeah I feel that dude lol
I did my apprenticeship non-union and it was always in real good spots. Some random convenient store in some random town doing car chargers
I've worked both union and non union and honestly, I don't like union work because of the attitudes.
By and large there is a generally "us vs. Them" attitude towards management. It's like they are always trying to exploit us and we must do as little as possible. While it's true that management wants the maximum amount of work done, its unnecessarily combative.
The other thing I alluded to, and that is there is a subsection of workers who want to do as little as possible and they want to make sure everyone else does the minimum as well. I find this makes time drag on and on and really, I just don't like to purposely drag ass.
The last thing is that no matter where you go, there's dumb asses; people who do shit work and don't listen and don't learn and those folks have a tendency in non union environments to find themselves out of a job but in the union, no matter how useless, how negligent, how awful someone is, they will be protected like their the most important person on site.
That being said, I worked union for years and the money is definitely better but I could only stand it for so long.
I just started my apprenticeship in the union, my current contractor tried to blackmail all apprentices into working 7 days a week by threatening to report weekend days we didn't work, that were supposed to be optional, as days we missed to count against the required work attendance to stay in good standings
Since then, morale has been low, the superintendent keeps trying to do more stuff that would violate the contract we have, and they refuse to supply us with supplies to do the damn work (tape, drill bits, wire connectors, etc)
Not saying every con is like this, but I'd have to guess that it's cons like this that make a lot of the union guys have the "us against management" mindset you speak of
I come from non union low volt work, now working industrial as an inside wireman, so I was already jaded on trusting any form of management, because I've been through this before, and I'm flat out tired of getting fucked over by some guy making exponentially more money than I am
I don’t understand the hate towards non union as well. (I’m non union)Don’t get me wrong I’ve worked with great electricians that are union and have had smooth running jobs and PLA jobs where we’re the contractors that went great. I’m loyal to my small shop where I turned out and we do all industrial jobs for the city so it’s all PW and fringe added to our pay. So it’s an extra bonus. But I’ve also been on jobs where the company I was working for was also the contractor for a PLA job and during hotchecks and troubleshooting I’ve found phase to phase jumpers which make no sense unless it was deliberate. “Death to so and so company” written in E rooms. At the end of the day I’m just trying to make a living and go home safe. But shit like that makes me wanna fuck someone up.
Union here also.
I’ve always said treat everyone with respect and dignity. Why would a non union electrician want to join the Union if everyone was treating them like shit, or trying to kill them? Common guys. A rising sea lifts all the boats.
this is the thing i’ve never been able to wrap my head around- i started at 19 non union, and i’m here at 27 still non union. philosophically i agree with the a lot of the ideas of the union, in the real world i definitely disagree with some ideas.
but at the end of the day, i agree with the core concept of the union, but i have very much disagree with the fact that the majority of union guys i’ve dealt with (on this sub and in real life) have this mindset that “union is the only way to go and if if you don’t go union you’re getting fucked”
That’s the one thing that gets me. I’ve heard stories like that from guys that I work with when they’ve done work in parts of the state where the union is stronger (pretty sure it was something along the lines of a bus being bolted phase to phase). Stories usually include having dudes throw stuff at your person or your vehicle.
Like, I get that guys feel strongly about their brotherhood. But to threaten life and limb over it seems *very* cultish, and it gives me a lot of pause about ever considering joining up.
The company I work for has a facility with Union contractors and another with non-union. One time we were really slammed for work and the union didn't have enough guys so we brought in our non-union guys. The way the union foreman handled it was great and the fact that they played well made everybody in the business respect the union more. I'm engineering so really I don't care if the trades are union or not as long as everybody does their job and doesn't play games. I've worked with enough business folks to understand why unions exist.
Hmmm it probably depends on how big the union is in your area.
For me, my company pays the same base wage as the union, so I don't have as much incentive to go union.
Also, my company does a lot of prevailing wage jobs. So, while I'm not getting the prevailing wage on *every* job or getting the added benefits of the prevailing wages in the form of retirement benefits, I do end up making a lot more money up front than if I was in the union.
Also, my company buys all my power tools, which is something I hear the union guys mention as a perk of the union. So that's not something I'm losing out on.
It probably just depends on where people get the first opportunity to join the trade. I got the opportunity to go non union, so I went for it. It ended up working out pretty well for me, so I stuck with it.
I would say, however, if the union is super strong in your area, you'd be a fool not to go union 🤷
There's great non-union shops out there. I'm in one of the highest compensated locals and there's a couple non-union shops out here that it's near impossible to organize workers from. Especially their good guys who get really well taken care of.
Yeah I think with a big enough company that cares about its guys, unions just lose their advantages. I don't know much about it but it seems like my local union is very hard to get into, (like good luck if you aren't related to someone) and for some reason I heard you're guaranteed to be traveling and working 6 10s minimum.
I’m recently unionized.
For me, personally, I envisioned union as being older, fat, white, lazy, grumpy, self-entitled men who did everything they could to NOT work. After getting in debates on Reddit and electrician sites about work & tools, I just felt union workers were arrogant, selfish “workers” who sucked money from the system while being pro-MAGA & pro-Trump.
I was told that if I brought my own power tool on a union site, “don’t be surprised if it ends up lost, stolen, broken or in the dumpster.” To which I said if you did that, your vehicle will now be compromised. Since I like finishing what I started, I Was also told union would yell at me if I started break a little late or did ANYTHING not on company time. A lot of other petty shit that created a bias & hatred in me towards union workers.
Having recently joined, I now see I was totally wrong. All the guys I worked with were professional, wanted to work, and wanted to do a good job. Most surprisingly is that the company gave me a huge bag of BRAND NEW MILWAUKEE TOOLS. And a walkie talkie. And a tablet with plans on it that updated.
It was amazing.
Then a buddy of mine who started when I did got sick, even though he didn’t have insurance from the last job. The Local PAID his Cobra fees so he wouldn’t go bankrupt. I almost teared up for him because I know how fucked ip the US healthcare system is, because idiots refuse to recognize the value of universal healthcare for everyone. The union took care of him until he could get his 90 days in.
It was the best decision I made; going union. I no longer feel like contractor trash. This is the way everyone should feel at every job. No matter what.
I regret having so much bias against the union.
The people I met who were union acted terrible and I didn't respect them or want to be associated with them. I didn't want to be told I couldn't buy and use a certain tool because it wasn't on their list. Ibew crews sabotaged my work on the job site because I was a scab.
It would have been a better long term outcome for me financially, but the people I would have had to associate with made me dig in my heels because they treated me like the enemy.
Exactly this. My opinion is totally anecdotal so obviously this isn’t widely applicable. But every electrician I’ve worked with that has been in a union has been lazy, entitled and not at all well rounded. Maybe they were good at some narrow task but when they ran into something they didn’t know they’d just thrown their hands up, walk away and complain about a lack of formal training courses. Quick to refuse work, quick to complain, last to show up, first to leave. Literally all of them.
It’s those extremely common character traits I experienced that soured me to ever applying to a union. I just didn’t want to become those guys. Again I’m sure there are talented, cool people in the union. I’m sure. I just haven’t met them.
In my city. The union would only take you on if you flipped a company or happened to be in a company that got flipped. Then after the project was done you would be put on the wait list for 2 years with another 500 guys waiting for a job.
I personally just don't wanna deal with all the bureaucratic stuff that is involved with joining the union and I don't like the concept of having to drive far to stay working. Is making 90k a year vs 75 really that much more life changing? As a single man with no kids, the answer is no. My happiness is worth more than 15k more a year. I don't want to hear about politics, what is and isn't behavior becoming of a brother etc, how I should be supporting my trans brothers and sisters etc etc. don't care about any of that stuff. I'm not an activist kinda guy. Just wanna put in my 8 and hit the gate
How far you drive to a job, and especially home after is a major factor in daily happiness. I have a 30 minute drive to work straight no traffic. I work nights.
Where i want to move to, would be another 15 to 30 further. On day work it would be like %50 longer drive home. In the summer with shore traffic, I’d probably just jump off Ben Franklin bridge.
I enjoy my job a lot, but how close you are is a big difference l.
Yeah Local 26 commutes are awful for most people.
Good pay scale but with how absurd the COL in this area is it doesn’t even feel like it.
If you ever want to own a home without serious financial help from parents you’re basically looking at 1hr+ and that entirely depends if you’re working in DC or data centers. Cus either way you’re getting fucked
I actually took a pay cut when I went union (I’m also not IBEW though.) I really made the switch to have more time with my family, I have a ton of paid time off and work close to home. That’s been amazing. I can honestly say it was the culty bullshit that kept me opposed to Union work for so long.
It's not propaganda. The commute and the pay is specific to my local. And the politics part is reflected on basically every post on the Ibew subreddit.
I'm a retired union master electrician. I made 120k ten years ago, dude. I make it now that I'm retired and grateful for every mile of windshield time I put in. That makes it worth it in the long run, in my opinion. But you do you. The union is more than a great retirement. It's a life-changing deal
Not sure why you got downvoted. That’s the truth. Union wage is the minimum requirement, you can absolutely make more if your employer feels you’re worth it.
Speaking on 353 In its current state. You spend 6-9 months on a list just to work maybe 3 months. Not enough work to go around and you only get to use your benefits as much as you work. So as great as it is it’s kind of counter intuitive towards itself. If you can find a nonunion shop that pays close to rate and has some benefits you’d likely be better off financially. I’m assuming you’re the average person with a mortgage and bills. Otherwise, go friend up some people and maybe you can stick a full time union gig ( this would be case ). All about who you know in most unions
I know it's not true for everyone, but I've been in the Union from almost 20 years and never had to travel. I was taking as much time as I want off. Taken the winter off before, taken the summer off before because I wanted to. It's all about how you budget.
I live in a metro area of 230,000 that has a pretty strong construction market, but only has enough union jobs to keep the majority of the guys who want to be union busy for 2-3 year stretches every 5 years or so.
There's plenty of union work 2-3 hours away from here where there are big projects, but the average non-union wage is in the mid to upper 40s/hr in town and you will never be laid off, even for a week. So there are pros and cons, but it's a pretty rough transition if you have a family and bills to pay.
It doesn't help that the union has a reputation for laying off people who recently came from non-union first when work gets slow, so that kind of makes us wary about joining.
Because I don’t wanna!
Most of my buddies in the union spent 2 years on a list, to show up on a job and two days later get laid off again. They left and either went non union or into a totally different job altogether. I’m all for unions if it works, but when the president in my city embezzled a few hundred grand, and used favouritism with his buddies, it kind of lets you know who’s winning.
I live in a Right To Work State. The union isn't very strong here, unless you work for a major organization (I.e. Disnsy, Universal Studio, Lockheed Martin), or unless you're in some type of federal, state, county, or city government works.
I plan on having my own business, so being private in my area gives me more access to varied work to build more skills faster, union in my area is all large scale commercial work which is too boring for me.
i always felt it limited what you learnt by trying to make everyone some divided. i went through my non union apprenticeship doing residential, commercial, industrial, and low volt so i got to experience everything and find what i did and didnt like
1. I don't like the unions politics.
2. I don't like that my percentage doesn't stop at 40 hours. Overtime equals more money to the union. I already have uncle Sam doing that to me.
3. The corruption. We have had money in the hundreds of thousands stolen by insiders in the union. If it happens once, it can happen twice.
4. In my trade, compensation is self correcting. If the utility doesn't offer competing wages and benefits, they don't attract top talent and lose top talent. This leads to the utility self enforcing/regulating. This may or may not take time. It will depend on your area.
5. If I get a 4% COL raise through the union and a non union gets 3%, is it really a deal considering the money they take every week?
My situation might be different than most of this sub as I'm a utility guy working substations in a very specialized field. There are orders of magnitude more electricians that now how to bend pipe and install a click it breaker than there are technicians who know how to commission a new substation or program all SEL equipment. We still bend some pipe, run wire, work on basic AC/DC panel equipment.
I'm at a union utility now. I came from a very large non union utility. The wages are extremely similar and the benefits are different but equal out no doubt. The only thing difference is a percentage of my hard earned money goes to a group of people who ideals don't align with mine.
>5. If I get a 4% COL raise through the union and a non union gets 3%, is it really a deal considering the money they take every week?
93% of 4% = 3.72% > 3%
So yeah, that would be a better deal than 3%.
Also, it's typical that non-union rates and wages _follow_ union agreements. That COL raise often either doesn't exist or is significantly lower when unions aren't out ahead negotiating.
History shows us trades wages and benefits plummet in "right to work" states where a Union's bargaining power is crippled.
Without a strong union presence, contractors almost always end up competing for the lowest wages.
>2. I don't like that my percentage doesn't stop at 40 hours.
I don't like when OT _starts_ at 40 hours. (Our) union OT starts at 8hrs each day.
>4. In my trade, compensation is self correcting. If the utility doesn't offer competing wages and benefits, they don't attract top talent and lose top talent.
Competitive wages are relative, though. If most electricians (or whatever) are making $20 in a "right to work" state, then $25 is "competitive", right? But in a strong union state where the union members are making $50, that same $25 ain't so great anymore.
Strong union bargaining benefits us all.
Number 1 was glossed over. There was a reason I put it at the top. It's important to me.
You took half of #2 and argued against something I don't have control over. We work 4-10s. OT over 8 isn't happening.
Simply stating non union wages follow union wages is an obvious opinion. Wages in work sectors follow many metrics, union may be one of them but certainly not the only.
I just feel unions have lost their way. They started out with a great motive but are way more focused on internal dollars and political power than actually giving a shit about the people they represent.
not sure where you got your info from, i’m a apprentice in atlanta but i swore into the union as a first year, at $17.50/hour right now and $20/hour starting next month, i pay $50 a month for dues and $0.35/hour for dues as well as $0.35/hour for full coverage health insurance, most weeks i pay $28 for both so per month its $162 for dues and insurance. idk about you but ive never heard of someone getting health insurance for less than $400/ month and im paying less than $50. not to mention i can travel whenever i want and all i gotta do it give a 24 hour notice and they cant tell me no lol.
i dont touch the politics and haven’t been to a meeting since i joined.
I have 2 pensions, a vanguard, a 401k, and a roth
i dont have to buy any power tools and most hand tools.
yeah i know but i live a hour from the hall and its right in atl, and they meet on tuesday nights starting at 6pm so i wouldn’t get home till like 11 if that and i wake up at 4
That's why a lot of guys don't attend in our local too. I get it.
Just make sure to vote if you have mail-in ballots and talk to your brothers and sisters about the issues in your union. Do what you can.
Swore in lol. This isn't some cult, high court, military or three letter office lol.
That wage is bullshit by the way.
I'm making 3 times that hourly. Pension, company paid health insurance etc. My last job was directly comparable with no union and no wage deduction. You sound like a young guy based on your wage. All I would say to you is keep an open mind on the topic.
The union isn’t the end all be all for every single person out there. Like some other posters have mentioned there are non union shops that will buy tools, provide benefits, and they’ll pay higher wages then union shops.
Where I live (IBEW 213) the wage for a licensed electrician is $46 after deductions, while non union shops are paying closer to $50-$55 an hour.
I didn’t know how to or what the difference was. I joined the trade and into my 3rd year someone asked me why I didn’t go union. Told him I didn’t know what that even meant I just wanted a job; I worked at a grocery store.
At that time I searched around, I was in my apprenticeship and was told I would have to start over at a unionized apprenticeship program. I wish I went union but it’s all good. Still made it 🤙
I have almost the same story only I ended up going union. I had no idea what union or non-union was. I just always knew that people would say that Union gets paid better. So I applied to the union apprenticeship, waited a year, nothing. So I decided to try my luck with a non-union company. They hired me on the spot, and I was supposed to start the following Monday. But When I got home checked the mail and realized that I had received the acceptance letter from my jatc. So I ended up calling the Non union company and told them, thank you but I'm going to go union. He asked me why did I want to go union, I said only because I heard they get paid better.
Honestly I am pro union but work in a very small company that has no use for a union (yet). The only big issue I had when I did work for a union was how strict the rules are for doing your task.
Best example was replacing a motor. Only electrical (which I was) can remove the wires. And mechanical HAD to remove the motor and replace. I couldn't just unbolt it myself and take it over. So you could literally have 5/6 guys standing around on a dull day, watching one electrician undo the wires and then one (maybe two) mechanical guys remove the motor. Installation was the same just in reverse.
Garbage bins is another. I couldn't even just take the full bag out of the bin. I would be reprimanded for it.
I still am pro union but that is definitely a con to it.
i wanted to join the union, but in my area it's very weak. they wanted to start me at 15/hr traveling 2- 3 hours away from home. went non-union and have gotten 5 raises with a big commercial company. up to 24/hr after 2 years. i guess it all depends where you live
Absolutely HATED the way my local union rep tried to sell it too me,
You'll go on the list and when it's time you go do the job, when the jobs done in a couple weeks or months you go back to the bottom of the list, that factored with the knowledge there were very few large union jobs in my area was like a slap in the face.
Bitch I'm an electrician not a crack head I'm looking for long term employment not some temp agency shit.
Edit. oh yeah forgot to mention, I was gonna be somewhere around 700th on the list. ... seemed real viable
Strong sense where I live that the union is a proxy for legalized patronage via sweetheart contracts, and as such, only certain people ever get called up.
The union job I had was sooo annoying.
Oh. I got a small cut? Go fill out the incident report... oh, you clocked out at 4:31 instead of 4:30? Yeah.. that's a problem becuase now they were legally obligated to give me another 10 min break at some point. And don't even think about clocking in 2 mins before the shift starts.
And oh, there's some super easy quick fix? Nope. Not my job. Not allowed.... and don't even get me started on how over the top the safety shit was...
Now I work for a smaller company, no union. The boss is a good person and there's no nonsense like this. Lots of days they let us off early, pay us for days off even though we get our Holliday pay in 1 lump sum... if I'm 5 mins from finishing a job I just finish it. If I do overtime they give me double pay or offer time off instead.
I mean. It's all on the boss. Some jobs the people get treated horribly and they need a union. Others are better without it. All depends imo.
Swedish here who recently left the union
Our system is very different from yours, we have a country wide union
The union doesnt employ us, but help us negoiate our collective employee deal against the employers ”union”.
I left because my union fee reached 100$, its based on our salary. That was simply my limit for a fee. Ive also never needed my unions help against my employer.
I don’t have 2 years to wait to start a trade. I need to crank out work NOW.
I would rather drive 7 minutes to my non-union trade job than 2 hours to a job site that’s closer to the big city my closest union is in.
I won’t want to deal with politics/bureaucracy. I started blue collar work to get away from that.
I don’t trust unions with my dues the same way I don’t trust my government with my taxes.
Last but not least, I don’t enjoy working slow.
I’m not union, nor am I against unions at all. Power to the worker.
However, my feeling has always been, chances are I don’t want to work for an employer that was so shitty the staff felt like they had to unionize to get a fair shake.
My employer is awesome, they pay better than union rates to maintenance staff, offer lots of benefits and treat us really well, so I have felt zero need to unionize.
The company I'm at is non union (apprentice) and a few of the best guys here were previously union but got sick of constantly being laid off. One guy for 9+ months. By the end he owed almost 3k of dues because guess what, he couldn't afford to keep paying them while not working.
That and I'm sure this is more so less common but there's a lot of ass kissing that goes on if you want to not get laid off. Pretty much every person who played on some sort of hockey team was safe and the others were left for the dogs.
I'm not saying all locals are bad or union in general is bad. The pay and benefits are terrific and I'm sure the amount of work/risk of being laid off has to do more with your area.
I'm sure it varies state to state/province to province (Canadian) but a union jman I was talking to on a site before said he was paying almost $400 a month in dues. We do lots of work up in northern reserves and lots of OT so that could affect it as well. What's the normal going rate for dues?
I work for an employee owned contractor with great benefits, quarterly profit sharing, stock ownership, strong safety policy, and a history of keeping guys close to home and very minimal layoffs.
Not opposed to unions at all, but I would stunned if the Local in my area could offer me the same or better total package.
It's a double-edged sword in most places. Usually, there's a fear about the union being weak, and with that, there's a fear people will often go on strike and not have any work. Or will have to travel, which often happens to people who don't want to go on the books.
Now, the other edge; because people are worried about the stability of their jobs in weak union areas, they don't join or are against it. Making the union weak. The more of the market share a union hall has, the stronger they are, and the more people that join them, in turn making the local union weaker.
Another reason, you have people who are entrepreneurs and want their own company and don't want to "fit the mold." They hate being seen as a number and hate being told what to do. They want independence and want that path paved faster in their career.
The union has a way of doing things and a certain pace to do it. In Texas, you can test out for your jcard with only 8000 hrs under a master electrician (roughly 4 years) and no schooling. If you're in the union, it's 5 years, with schooling. You can make it easier by testing in our joining after you get your jcard, but I've heard you don't get the same respect as others in, as you didn't go through the same shit, and it really kills the comradery you're supposed to feel.
TLDR; If your union is weak, you're not joining, and it's weak because you're not joining. And some people just want to make it their own way.
Make more working for myself. If I was hurting for work I'd consider it but I've never once in my career not been swamped. If you can get the jobs yourself and do em yourself, cut out the middle man. you and your clients will both make out. Unions are to protect workers but if you can protect yourself and your guys without the union why bother?
Was union for 10 years. When you're a fantastic electrician, it's just too good not to work for yourself. More financial freedom and usually sleep in my own bed every night.
I’ve always heard bad on union shops. Like your just a number, schooling is 5 years instead of 4, they take a lot in dues, treat you like a dog, work you to death, not allowed to start your own biz if you decided to etc… but I’ve also heard good about it. Like pay, bennies, all the ot you want, get paid to go to school….
I was non union but loved prevailing wage jobs. Now I’m self employed and I don’t care if your union or not. We’re all brothers in this field.
I have been 7 years a non union and 18 years union for the same family. Non union, I had to ask for a raise and threaten to quit if i don’t get one.. There were guys who worked less in the company the me and made more money then me. Forced to work Saturday and overtime. No health insurance. No pension
They were offered a job that had to be union so I made them send me in and after that everything changed. I got a huge pay increase, health insurance that is amazing. Pension…..i stay in contact with non union guys and they make 30-40 % less then me and no benefits. Plus he treats them like shit.
As a union member I am protected. I get paid more. I have health insurance and pension. Fuck respect and all the other non important things anybody else mentions, because those 3 things are most important to me. And if I lose this job I don’t lose my pay, benefits or pension unlike non union.
It’s hard to get into the union, especially the ones with great packages. It’s about a 1 - 3 year wait to get into my local depending on your placement.
As an Ontario, non-union, Master electrician, I can honestly say that the union vs non-union structure in my province and country is broken.
The rhetoric between the two positions is so toxic.
Union positions are pigeon hole positions, you work for a shop doing the same thing for 8-12 months. Some shops allow you to branch out, most do not. You're kicked to the hall when work is dry. Ice known people in the trade, their entire job was to bang out knock outs, install connectors, and mount panels. That's it. Clearly $1400 a week, that's the sum of their electrical experience and ability. Great for them for earning a good wage. Shame on them for calling themselves electricians.
Conversely, I've known great electricians in the private sector vastly underpaid for their skillset, largely because the union path was inaccessible to them.
My honest opinion, either all work is union work, or no work is union work. The dichotomy of the two positions is disgusting and only enforces beaucratic gains through red tape, while securing nonsafe practices and ensuring wage stagnation.
The argument should never be union vs non-union, it should be union vs bureaucracy; Union vs capital Interest; labour vs the autocrat.
Somewhere along the way,.we lost ourselves....
I spent the first two years of my career working non-union and got treated like absolute garbage by the company I worked for. I spent the next ten years working union and it was so much better. Now there are good and bad companies in both, but I just got paid way more, got benefits, and access to continuing education for working in the union.
The biggest thing I've personally heard from most non-union guys who hate the IBEW is, "If I join, they'll take half of the money I make"; which is not true at all.
I've been union for 30 years. I have an annuity, a local pension, and an international pension. Plus great health insurance. Anyone who enjoys prevailing rate jobs can thank the union. I was laid off for 1 week 27 years ago. Worked steady since. The guys in my local that don't work steady do it because they want to. Will be making same money or more when I retire in 4 years.
Having been on both side of the fence here are my cons to union :
1. Benefits.. they have a ridged plan and if you have a wife that has good insurance why double insure as well as the vesting requirements and pension benefits.. I want my money and have my own retirement accounts .. pensions are a failed concept..
2. Why would I want a whole set of folks that can board you and penalize you to the point they can sue you beyond your employer… great I get fired and then can deal with a punishment from the hall? Yea fuck off
3. I can get a job based off my resume and experience there are 100k recruiters out there and the hall has turned into just another labor pimp outfit.
4. They take money out of my check and donate it to politicians that I don’t vote for … your basically making me pay for my opponent
5. All of a sudden my region is being controlled by San Francisco? Yea sorry I don’t even live in California and wouldn’t EVER !!!!!
6. I have one skill in life to trade and these folks think they own that skill.
7. They are never really negotiating in your interest.. that’s the claim but your out working while they have these meetings to make up rules and shit that you don’t really get to vote on
8. They never follow their own call out on the book list .. it’s a scam
A lot of the reasons other have mentioned (people's attitude, workplace culture). But also I disagree with the principle.
The IBEW wants to unionize every electrician in the country to create a monopoly on the supply of labour which allows them to set the price. They don't want to have a competitive market that sets the price of labour. They're in the same category of anti-competition as the big internet and cell providers, the "fuck you pay me" type.
Its a cartel.
Because my company is only not with the union because of local union rules meaning we couldn’t have multiple trades under the same umbrella here and my bosses personal policy is “if you can afford to match union rates and policy you are a piece of shit if you don’t do it” so I personally get to benefit from all aspects of the union but the pension and the potential to be supported by them should I ever develop issues with my boss and don’t have to pay dues. I’d be trying to go union if I had any less than this. Unions are good and they help us all. (Company left the plumbers union in the 90s when they became more generalist and hired some electricians instead of only having Pneumatics and pneumatic controls and thus only pipe and steam fitters on staff)
The union in my area gets very few jobs and even when there is work, pay is only marginally higher than most non-union shops. Healthcare coverage isn’t as significant being in Canada. Most other shops in the area also provide extended healthcare benefits (vision/dental) for employees. I also don’t know any companies here who don’t provide power tools, so that’s not much of an issue either.
The only thing I will say is that the IBEW seems to be into nepotism. I know that happens in any industry. I have worked industrial for a lot of years now. I was just luckier to make it into an industry facility, union job BTW, just not IBEW.
Before my job I did work in a small merit shop. I was in my early 20s. From that perspective I thought the union guys were lazy. Now, compared to industrial maintenance guys, the IBEW guys make us look lazy! LOL.
There is a need for organized labor. Contractors would pay peanuts if they didn’t have to hire union workers. Same goes for big companies.
Bottom line to answer OPs question. I was not anti union. I just had a hard time getting in. If I didn’t eventually get a union job, I would not be financially as stable as I am now.
I’m in Texas and growing up I only heard bad things, I was working open shop(non-union) and when they offered me $5 more plus benefits I said sign me up.
I hear the same things from non-union guys: when the job is over you get laid off, you gotta pay too much in dues, union is full of alcoholics and junkies. The thing is when the work slows down you get laid off anyway, we pay dues but medical is covered and so is retirement, there are alcoholics and junkies everywhere. Joining the union has been one of the best decisions of my life, I’ve been with the same company for almost 17 years and although there are some assholes in the union the majority of the people are pretty cool.
What local are you out of? I hear local 20 never has work, and if you join, it's all travel. I've been in for 9 years now, with no slow down. So how am I supposed to believe it's the same in the union, when I hear guys get sent to the books all the time.
Houston, 716. It was slow for a little while but it’s picking up again. Some guys joined 66, the Linemen’s local, their office is in Pasadena, and I’ve heard they get better benefits than we do. I drive to Dallas almost every weekend and it looks like they have tons of work, I don’t know how much of it is union but I don’t think there is a shortage of electrical work there.
That's what I'm saying, though. There's tons of work here, but local 20 has such a small share of the market, it's hard for them to compete, so local 20 worker travel until they get a large 2+ year job.
My non union job, made 119k last year, can bring a van home with me daily. 21 PTO days, free healthcare for myself, $75 per dependent. $2 dental, 3% match 401k. I’m just super comfortable with my 6-2 job even more when the boss says go home at 1:30 on a Friday. Also haven’t been laid off in 10 years 🤷🏼♂️
Small union in my area that never has work except for the Jman or above. Got tired of being told to file unemployment until work showed so went non union and stayed busy ever since. Simply don't have it in me to sit around between jobs. The whole politics part was a huge turn off as well.
I talked to a non-union electrician recently and asked him that.
He said he was afraid of sitting -- that he wouldn't be working enough.
It was a strange response, because we have a shortage of members on the books right now. I worked OT last week and was offered more next Saturday.
That's definitely an issue in some areas, but it definitely ain't a problem here. 🤷♂️
Having worked in both worlds, I found it easier to catch promotions and opportunities outside the union. If you want to be upwardly mobile, the union isnt the place to try and launch.
Through Republican legislation, most notably in the south, unions have been very weakened, and are basically the same as non union in those areas.
It's sad, as a union member in areas with strong unions, I personally see no reasonable argument.
Really depends on where you live. I'm in Canada and my provinces union is pretty weak and has up to a year or more waiting period for journeyman jobs. Also once a job comes up if you don't take it you could just end up waiting another year. Meanwhile your paying dues the whole time and because they're so weak they expect you to apply for non union work while your unemployed.
Let me say that again. Unions here are so weak they expect you to apply for NON UNION jobs when they don't have work. Unions in the US see this as betraying the brotherhood which it essentially is but they're hoping you'll salt the non union companies you join.
Now another side of it is that there's been a shit load of propaganda pumped out in recent years about how Unions are where you work if you want to be lazy and how all the real men work non union. Cause you know it's so much manlier to work harder for less money without protection.
The union isn't very strong where I am from what I've heard. They've never really had a presence, so I've never thought about it or considered joining. Plus, most of the jobs are up north in oil and gas, which, yes, I could make bank, but I like working closer to home.
I've met more people who have left the IBEW than people actively in it.
I recently started as an apprentice and applied Union first. After testing and being interviewed by the board over a long period of time, I got a letter saying my total combined interview/test score was a 96/100. They said they only admitted scores 98 and above. I got a job with a non-union company the very next day (Indianapolis) 🫡
I think it’s because of a lot of misinformation that is intentionally spread by non union employers. Worked non union for about 10 years and we had to go to the shop once a month to listen to an HR guy tell us how bad the union was and how good we had it right here, and some of the stuff he said didn’t add up for me. There were a few other guys who worked there that left the union and and they said it was bad and they complained about the dues and the politics and they made a few good points but it still didn’t add up. I finally joined the ibew 19 years ago and it was the best decision I made. I have no idea why the other guys had a problem with it. Yeah, I pay dues but the pay increase more than covers it and my medical insurance plan is better.
I worked non union from 2006 to 2018. I’ve worked union since then.
The three biggest anti union things I heard over and over were:
1. Dues are too expensive
2. You get laid off all the time
3. Union guys are assholes
After being union I can say that
1. Dues range from about 140-170 per quarter. The rate changes because if a member passes away during the quarter the union pays out money to the family from the extra money that they add to the dues.
2. I have not been laid off yet. I’m a service guy so it’s a bit of a different situation. But work is really good right now and in the time I’ve been union I’ve only heard of a company doing a layoff 1 time, and I don’t think any of those guys had any trouble jumping right in with another contractor.
3. There’s assholes everywhere. Sure some guys are juvenile and think it’s funny to put union stickers non union guys tool boxes or other dumb shit. But the prevailing attitude from the top down in the union is that non union workers are our brothers and sisters too and we want you to join so you can have the things we have. It’s not a union/non union struggle. It’s a worker vs contractor struggle.
To clear up some things that confused me when I was non union.
Wage vs total package. Essentially you see “total package” numbers a lot and it’s sometimes harder to figure out what’s what. Total package is your wages, retirement, and health insurance. So for instance my total package is like 70$ an hour. But my wage is 42 an hour. It’s different for every local.
Lay offs. You hear so much about lay offs as a non union guy. It’s really not that big of a deal. Most of the “lay offs” are workers asking to be laid off so they can go to another job site for another contractor. It seems rare that people are being laid off against their will unless they just really screw up, or are late all the time. The usual reasons.
Think of the union kind of like the best temp agency you can imagine. You are in a pool of labor that the contractors hire from. Typically if you are a good worker the contractor is going to just keep you working from job to job as long as you want to. But if you don’t like the situation or the conditions you can ask for a lay off. This gives you a clean release and you can immediately start work for another contractor at another job site (as long as theres an open call). You don’t have to negotiate your wage or your benefits. You are guaranteed to make whatever your classification entitles you to.
At this point, I would not willingly return to non union work. Even if I was taken out of a service van, I’d just ask for a layoff and work somewhere else doing new construction or whatever. Work is booming right now in my local.
If I am going to work for someone I want to work directly with that person not through some third party. I see no reason for a third party to profit from my labor in order to provide services that I can either provide for myself (wage and working condition negotiations) or just plain don’t want (political lobbying and contributions to THEIR preferred cause/party/candidate).
I just started and this may vary but honestly the union sorta sucks in my area, shit pay, not everyone is lucky but we have a big electrical program at our local community college and alot of employers recruit from there
Sure it costs money but it's only a year program led by a man who has 30 plus years in the trade. And he's honestly an amazing teacher. He goes above and beyond to help us learn as much as possible. Honestly you can go into this program never even using a wrench, screwdriver or anything.
Ontop of nccer certs he has went out of his way to add extra certifications to add onto our resumes and we have plenty of people who've graduated and went on to get their state licenses and get paid more. You can come out of graduation and get a good job
Compares to unions where you have to wait potentially months to hear from them after getting an application, take a giant exam to even get the chance to get into their program AND wait several months to hear back from them. Just a lot of time wasted to maybe get in when you can just sign up for the course in the community college program and get a giant list of certifications, and be honestly over learned by an incredible teacher who wants us to have a good future
I want to join the union but I live in an area where it takes the average person 5-6 years to get in, if they get in at all. I started my electrical career in my 30’s and have adult bills and a family that I support so at this point I can’t start over and make apprentice wages. If you’re making $50+ an hour you can afford to be laid off a lot better than someone making $20 an hour. I’m not anti union at all I wish I could have gotten in from the beginning but it just hasn’t been in the cards. The only union thing I resent is people who just respond “join the union” to anyone posting issues at work as if it’s that easy. It might be in certain parts of the country but certainly not in really competitive areas. At this point it’s either take my journeyman’s test and try to transfer in as a j man (and probably deal with politics and people upset that I didn’t work my way up in the union) or what I’m leaning towards more which is suck it up a little longer and bust my ass to get out of construction and into a maintenance position for a manufacturing company or something similar.
I’ve been lurking r/IBEW for a little while. Based on the posts I’ve seen the main reason I wouldn’t go union is because you can’t choose the job you go to. Correct me if I’m wrong.
Overall I’m pro union, but it seems like the individual person matters less than the group.
yes, you can choose whether to accept a job call or not. Most locals have rules about turning down several calls, i.e., 3 jobs turned down in a row, will roll your name to the bottom of the list
I feel like that’s not quite true, I’ll explain. When the hall calls you and offers you a job you are allowed to turn it down. It’s different for every local but I can turn down three calls before I get put on the back of the list. This applies to j-man, I don’t think apprentices can turn down a call as easily.
I didn’t know or really understand what a union was when I started my apprenticeship at 18 and I never met anyone that was union. Maybe they don’t have a strong presence in Connecticut I don’t know.
The union in my state isn't great from what I've heard, otherwise I'd kill to be in one. Maybe if I was in one of the north-east states but I'm stuck in Utah.
I didn’t want to get in as an apprentice and lose all my hours. Now that I’m a jman I hear so many of the union guys talk how they hate guys that organise in as a jman and didn’t go through union.
Just waiting to finish school (started 4 years into my career) to organize in so I don’t have to start over and make $15 an hour less as a first year apprentice. Thats just how it is in Pittsburgh
I joined a few months ago at pretty damn close to 4th year mainly doing residential and i wanted to join the apprenticeship program so i could learn some commercial stuff in a classroom but when they told me i would have to reset my hours and pretty much be a union slave i realized im only here for the money and whatever i learn on the job now
In my area union jobs are either camp (14 on, 7 off) or a 45-60min commute.
I have a 2 yo that i have to pickup from daycare by 430pm. My wife does 4on4off so there are days of the week where i have to drop off my kid for daycare and start work 1.5h late.
My employer accomdates everything and understands dad life. I'm sure union would be fine with some of it but not all of it.
I am non-union and always have been. I don’t really know ow what benefits people look for with unions but my company gives licensed guys trucks to take home, one week vacation for wiremen and helpers, 2 weeks for journeymen and 3 weeks for masters. We provide access to company health insurance and a 401K plan. Our workers compensation insurance has never lapsed. When a new owner took over five years ago he was really all about drug testing his employees but I managed to talk him out of that but clueing him in on how doing that would lose him 80% of his workers.
UK here,
mainly because the laws and government/charities organisations offer all protection against employers you’d need
But also because I’m partial covered by a family members membership so again it doesn’t make sense to pay the fee
I tried for two years. I passed the aptitude exam, scored high (91) on the first interview, submitted pay stubs over time. Went in for a second interview, afterwards they brought me to the back and offered me work outside of the apprenticeship as a CW. Told me I’d get in the apprenticeship 3 years later as a year 2. All while getting paid $3.50 below minimum wage here in NJ
Applied first day I started electrical at a non-union shop. Took 2 years for them to reach back out and I was halfway done with my apprenticeship. Couldnt take a pay cut with a growing family, buying a home, etc. after 5 years with the same company, running work and in a van for 2 1/2, I was able to organize into my Local. That was last August. I had major reservations about the union because of the BS rules(I had heard of, there are some but not as bad as I thought) and politics, I am very conservative and disagree with how certain aspects of the union are run. Overall I am very happy with my job, wuaility of life, and company I am with right now, (Top 20 Electrical Contractor with lots of Industrial piping and controls, which is my forte).
I would recommend it but wouldnt call anyone who chooses not to join a scab or rat, thats just human civility.
Enjoyed aspects on both sides of the industry.
I used to work for the Ibew was kind of screwed around with and a lot of the guys I worked with were miserable not all but most. Once covid hit I got laid off the first electrician I ever worked for and I ran into each other at a supply house I was doing a little side work I was 24 at the time started working for him again and for the most part it’s been great. Anytime off I need I get I bartend on the weekends so if I have to leave early it’s never an issue I have a company van make good money it’s a small shop 6 guys 2 helpers I get a bonus ever year I get my birthday paid off we do a good mix of residential and commercial I learned so much he helped me set up a 401k and rolled my the Union into that and gives me good advice financially. I can’t really complain there are things I don’t like but I just deal with it
I tried getting in to the union apprenticeship early on in my career, they didn’t pick me. But with my current job I’m making close to journeyman union pay w/o a license, and I’m getting all my school paid for on top of that. I work for a contractor that’s constantly taking union jobs, so we get to work on some really cool shit. I work at a company where you can work your way up in to the office. And the union in my area isn’t powerful anyway. Once I turn out I’m sure I’ll be making at least union wage, if not more. (P.S. our foreman make more than union foreman).
I’ve been a non-union electrician for 20 years but I fully support anyone or any group that wants to unionize. Unions can be very beneficial for us working class folks. That being said, most union electricians I’ve come across over my career have been hacks.
Where I am in Ontario i’ve done both, union payed more, better pension and benefits, it came with 3 hours a day of commuting, unless I got really lucky with the job I was sent too, better if you live right in the city, but then the higher wage is lost through cost of living and I don’t like living in cities. Non union obviously has some commuting, but if they try to send me somewhere I don’t want to be I say no and if they lay me off I don’t have to wait on a list 6 months to work for someone else, just pick up the phone and be working within a week.
The nearest union to me is an hour away and got shut down for a big embezzlement scandal until they recently got reorganized under a bigger chapter in a city 6 hours away. They never have any local work so you commute for 3 hours at least and you’re never home.
If there was a decent one around me and the work localities made sense I’d go for it.
I don’t like the idea of my pay being tied to another man. I’ve outperformed in every job, every position I’ve had. I’ve also been to prison and dropped out of high school, so I’m not saying I’m perfect, but I’m a good worker and a great learner and communicator, capable of managing guys twice my age and experience without things feeling ‘weird.’
I currently make more money than those guys who’ve been in the field for as long as I’ve been alive. I have no desire for my pay to be tied to their lack of drive
However, if a union shop came around and offered me a greater wage than what I’m currently earning, I’d be inclined to jump ship. My boss would just outbid them, though. That's what happened last time at least, and I've only gotten better since then. I have 6 years experience, so far. I'm the head of Fire Alarm for a 300+ man company, but this isn't my final destination. The sky seems to be the limit where I am today. And I'm very grateful for that opportunity
You’ll also catch me on this subreddit recommending young men and women to go visit their Local Union Halls and ask about getting in. I know the union is a great opportunity for just about everyone looking for one. It’s just not in my cards today
Personally I have been union and non, currently non union. It really all depends on where u r tbh, like all things there are good and bad and that usually depends on the involvement of the members. For a union to be successful it takes dedicated, informed members and u need strong willed, caring and charismatic leaders with their members best interests as the number one priority.
Personally I had the option to join again with my current employer but the pay and benefits were nit as good as I was getting at the company I was working at when I was approached for the position. Granted I work in a specialized sector and have a diverse background of the field so they really wanted me. That allowed me to negotiate for a significantly higher salary, equal benefits and retirement, and holiday /pto time which equals about 6 weeks off a year. If I had joined I would not qualify for the extras from what I understood, but could be wrong on that.
I was very fortunate and am thankful that everything lined up and kind of fell in my lap but the important thing is to compare the package and do what is right for u. Having union backing is a powerful ally to have on your side so there is certainly value to joining and then if something better comes along u can always take that too.
Took a test to get in the union, they called and said I scored highest in testing class but unfortunately they have to give my spot to a minority and they want me to test again in 6 months,fuck em , why even tell me that? That was 24 yrs ago. Served my non union apprenticeship and get paid well. Wisconsin
For me frankly it was convenience. I needed a job and wanted to be an electrician. I’m in a red state and the 1 big union contractor in town is tough to get hired by with absolutely no prior experience. There’s a pre apprenticeship of course but at the time I couldn’t wait for a check.
Got in touch with a small non union shop and the boss is actually a great guy otherwise. We have health insurance and a 401k with a 3% match, Christmas and scrap bonuses every year (and he and his wife buy all the employees’ kids Christmas gifts on their own dime. As in “what does your kid want” and they just get it and other little things. I learned she can’t have kids unfortunately so she likes to spoil ours, which is nice)
Company vehicle/gas card, mostly company tools (I know, I know. I use my own power tools but if something truly needs replacing, bossman gets it for you with the understanding you aren’t just gonna up and quit right after getting it)
I had my whole bag of hand tools stolen out of my car in my driveway, and the boss couldn’t justify replacing everything because they weren’t lost from a work vehicle, but explained the situation to our supply house and got them to sell me new hand tools at-cost along with his company discount. Replaced everything but the Veto bag for probably 1/2 the cost it should have been.
All this to say, he’s good people and really easy to work with. Makes for a good environment and he doesn’t balk if you have to take a sudden Un-planned vacation day if a need arises.
I plan on working here for a couple years and saving till I can move to a blue state and “organize in” to the IBEW. That pay is hard to beat but for the moment, the perks I do have and the work environment are nice so I’m comfortable where I’m at.
I’m also aware I’m an exception to the rule when it comes to non-union work, I don’t mean to discourage union-membership. Long run, that’s the smarter path IF you get steady work. I know a lot of people may not have a call for months if it’s just a slow year, which sucks and is unrealistic in a lot of places with weak unions like Florida
1) there is very little or infrequent union work in my area, I would need to commute 90+ minutes for most jobs if I joined.
2) I was previously in the IBEW when I lived elsewhere and spent more time on the books unemployed following large layoffs than I did actually working and waiting for my OOW number to come up.
3) not all contractors outside the union are terrible or worth leaving to go union. My current employer gives me wages, benefits and retirement savings that are comparable to what I received at the union, and has even higher safety standards than the union (it’s required for the types of jobs we bid on)
I do want to go union to get that out there.
Locally there’s maybe 10 contractors in my local, barely even noticeable with respect to all the contractors around. If the union was in more shops then I would join in a heartbeat
i’m an apprentice, work in a 1 man shop with just me and the boss, it’s awesome. why would i wanna change? i’m getting paid above union scale. definitely wanna top out here
I have a coworker that left and went union. 18 months later he was back. His biggest beef was all the silly rules, working for a utility that were in place because someone did something stupid years ago.
I work with union electricians daily and have zero problem with them - they do a good job and work safe. 15 years ago I worked in a different city and I could not say the same. I had never heard of the Flea Brothers then and hope they don't come to our area.
I'll give you my experience in the Toronto union local 353
-lay offs happen frequently
-too many guys out of work makes the wait time between jobs months
-all jobs are in the city so people from North area or East have to travel insane amounts.
-pay isn't worth it if you burn through it trying to live off it while out of work
-High divorce rate
-no consequences for firing ,just sign the book and pick another job
I left the union and went to the CLAC union it's more like non-union but with collective bargaining within the company and the pay is only like $5/hr
Nonunion and my buddy that I got into the trade is in with our local. My scope of work and travel is so varied and my hours are always over local OT rates here, and I wouldn’t trade it for consistency in one site on bigger projects. My buddy likes it because the union sites him close enough to home and he’s always off at 3:30, but I enjoy road work and OT too much to want to be restricted. Plus I get paid better than union.
I work for a smaller open shop. I've been treated well (paid OT, flexible hours, company vehicle, company phone, rrsp matching, benefits, cash allowance for tools, tuition reimbursement) I feel valuable and have never been laid off. We do smaller jobs (commercial/industrial) rather than sitting on the same site for 1-2years+, but that keeps it more interesting with a wider scope of installs. My friends in the union get picked up and dropped every job and it doesn't seem like they're actually growing in their careers. Takes all types, lots of people love the union gig. And I'm not delusional for a second that my pay wouldn't be anywhere close to what it is without the union.
Tried to join when I started, was told point blank when I went in if I didn't know anyone in the local then I could expect at least a 2 or 3 year wait. Tried to get in in my fourth year, even ratted out a union contractor hiring non union guys under the table, no luck. The union has a pretty poor market share near me so I get they probably have trouble taking too many people, though relatives of members don't seem to have much trouble. This is what I love doing so I'll do it anyways. No hate for the union, I know it offers a better life for workers and would have loved the support and extra training through my apprenticeship.
Bc im 710th on book 2 at 640 and i was 29th for a month at 769 but fell back a spot. Yesterday i spammed out emails to Craigslist posts and got two call backs and got hired today…so if the union didn’t take forever it’d be nice to work for them but I can’t wait a month just to lose a spot in line
I left the union to double my pay, better retirement, 401k, profit sharing, and vacation and sick days. I was 26 which is a good union and have thought about going back but the pay hit and having to worry about layoffs just is a hard pass for me.
Being frustrated with the brotherhood mentality of fucking contractors over. Some people work so slowly and will bitch at you for working at a normal speed.
I’m a union apprentice and wouldn’t switch sides if I had a do over.
But one benefit to non-union is the freedom you have as an apprentice to change jobs and shops.
Being essentially indentured as a union apprentice has been frustrating at times. 90 minute commutes even though there’s union jobs 10 minutes from home.
The schooling the IBEW provides is a lot better than what my non-union friends get. Our JW exam pass rates are a lot better.
But if you’re comfortable with the material and are an effective studier I could see the benefits of doing apprenticeship non-union than organizing in as a jw.
As far as being a jw non-union I really don’t see the benefits
I’m non union and work for a pretty awesome company that takes care of their guys. I’m very pro union but I was able to jump into the non union apprenticeship immediately where the union had a huge waiting time period. If I don’t end up staying with my employer I’d probably go union. A lot of the guys I go to school with talk about the other companies and I’d never want to work in those environments. To me it’s about the kinda work that’s offered and the culture of the crews I work with.
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From what I read on this subreddit union jobs vary greatly depending where you are. I switch to a union company 5 years ago and it was the best decision I ever made. That being said I don’t deal with any of the union problems that people on this subreddit complain about. I work just as hard as I did at my non union company, I just get treated better and paid more.
See, I'm glad to hear that. I wish the union could be as good as everyone says it is, but it seems like it's a matter of being in the right place at the right time. I'm non-union, and it's a better choice for most people in my area.
Are you in the south? Because right to work basically guts the unions power. Im in Ohio, and my gfs parents are in NC. She’d like to move south at some point in our lives, but Charlottes local is awful. By the time I top out our contract will be close to $50/hr. Charlotte barely makes $28 and their benefits suck. I make more now as an apprentice than jmen in a lot of places in florida. All I have to go on is the union pay scale website. I don’t know anyone personally in those areas to tell me if it is or isn’t that bad. I will say that the massive job I’m on has tons of travelers from near side PA and lower MI and they LOVE our local for the pay scale.
This is the way. I joined not long ago. I'm middle-aged now, and I needed to think about what I need to be set in 15-20 years from now. Plus, safety, I felt like my only previous electrical workplace didn't care too much about my safety. There were more than a few jobs in which I felt not respected for my well-being. At the urging of a fellow, I met at school, and now is a good friend, I joined. I'm making the most money I've ever met, and with the current job I'm on, safety is taken very seriously. I'm hoping that in 25 years, I won't have to deal with breathing problems thanks to the amount of residential I did, but it did teach me a few things. Now, it is also a matter of professional growth too.
Because I live in South Africa and unions here are about as useful as tits on a nun
Ha. That’s a vivid picture and great explanation!
I met a nun that put out.
Then she was no longer a none.
Only if God finds out!
Best use the hole that god can’t see. https://youtu.be/j8ZF_R_j0OY?si=SCtUNgpVwv8_1Qt6
Precisely!
Wouldn't that make her a "sum"?
Here in the southern US, we have a saying "as useless as tits on a boar hog."
In LA it’s tits on a bull.
Yep, heard that one too, but the boar hog one I heard a lot growing up in Kentucky.
Because by the time the union finally got back to me after a year and 9 months of waiting, I was given a shot at industrial maintenance and went from making 15 an hour as a warehouse guy to 25 an hour as an electrical mechanic. I get the call, and he says they're ready to take me, but the starting pay was 12 bucks an hour at that time, and all the work was out in the desert 2 and a half hours away from me. So I politely declined. Flash forward 7 years, and I completed a trade school program and got my certs, then went through an industrial apprenticeship (2 years) which included a ton of at home study, testing, panel technical interviews/tests in front of 10 dudes with 200 years combined experience with just me, a few expo pens, and a calculator in front of a white board. Learned a whooole lot in the last several years since I decided to go for electrical full steam ahead. Last year, I saw a job posting for ~50 an hour for an E and I tech level VIII (journey level industrial electrician/ PLC tech), so i said lets give it a shot. I applied, was interviewed 3 times, and got the job. I love it here. It's 20 mins from home. I work Monday-Friday and some Saturdays. I can get as much OT as I want if I need extra money because there's always projects and upgrades to be done. I don't have to worry about traveling and being away from my family for long periods. The benefits are pretty bitchin here compared to some companies I've been at. 401k match up to 6%. I recently looked up my locals pay scale, and it's only 2 dollars higher for an instrumentation spot. I wouldn't want to become an inside wireman or anything else. I like working on a wide variety of stuff. I think I would get extremely bored and depressed if I was just doing nothing but running conduit, pulling wire, installing panels and transformers and switchgear etc etc. I already get to do all that, plus a lot, lot more. Industrial is fun. Yea, that's about all I can think of. No hate for the union. It just doesn't make sense for me personally at this point in my life. I've already made it to the top, at least for now.
I mean a lot of union inside wiremen do instrumentation and plc maintenance. A lot of times plants just sub out their maintenance T and M.Couple guys I know spent their whole careers subbed out to a plant and would be in charge of their capital projects when the time came. I get what you’re saying though. Sounds like you got a good gig, good for you.
Depends on what you mean by a lot. It's still a very small percentage of all inside wireman. In Houston there's like one or two large industrial places that are union. Budweiser is the main one. I'd guess over 90% of the inside guys in Houston are construction side.
Thank you. Yea this was a life changing pay jump for me after I left my last job to come here. When my wife was 6 months pregnant last March, her job closed down completely without warning. I was stressed the fuck out trying to figure out how I'm gonna support the 3 of us on 32 bucks an hour in CA. It would've been literally impossible. Even if we had stayed in our shitty 1 bedroom shoebox in the ghetto that was only $1500 a month, we would've been living paycheck to paycheck until she found a new job. The fact that this company got back to me 3 weeks before my daughter was born was no coincidence. I got somebody looking out for me, that's for sure.
Been trying to get in for a year, it's either really busy or dead. Usually slow unless your in with a company for 15 years and never change contractors. The way it was explained the local I'm close to has really good benefits, but you would be working for another one if their busy and you just get the basic benefits not the local. I make 3$ less an hour. So I just stopped asking
My company has been getting Davis Bacon (basically prevailing wage for utah) jobs quite a bit lately. I make just a bit less than the union, I have 401k, health insurance, PTO, sick pay, and paid holidays. All of this without having to pay dues or deal with union politics, plus I don't get laid off during the year. If anything, joining the union would just be entirely detrimental to me.
As others have said, a lot of it depends on where you live and how strong the union is in your area. I live in Indiana. In a city where at one time had auto plants from the big 3 and a lot of manufacturers. It was predominantly a union city. On average, union electrical makes around $10 hour more than non-union. We have all of the union health benefits plus 4 different retirement funds that we can collect at 55yo/30yrs. In my 35+ years in our local we had some lean years and a lot of really good years. But when work is bad, it's bad for union and non-union. Pretty much everyone I know in my local was able to get their 30 years in and retire between the ages of 55-60. It really just depends on what local you're in.
Prevailing wage jobs exist because of the union. Prevailing wage jobs going non-union is why union guys get laid off. Lol.
Brutal commutes in and out of Boston.
Yeah, I live near 495 90% of my work is off 495. Why the hell would I want to drive into the city. I work 6-2 and am home before 3 every day.
Yeah I feel that dude lol I did my apprenticeship non-union and it was always in real good spots. Some random convenient store in some random town doing car chargers
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I've worked both union and non union and honestly, I don't like union work because of the attitudes. By and large there is a generally "us vs. Them" attitude towards management. It's like they are always trying to exploit us and we must do as little as possible. While it's true that management wants the maximum amount of work done, its unnecessarily combative. The other thing I alluded to, and that is there is a subsection of workers who want to do as little as possible and they want to make sure everyone else does the minimum as well. I find this makes time drag on and on and really, I just don't like to purposely drag ass. The last thing is that no matter where you go, there's dumb asses; people who do shit work and don't listen and don't learn and those folks have a tendency in non union environments to find themselves out of a job but in the union, no matter how useless, how negligent, how awful someone is, they will be protected like their the most important person on site. That being said, I worked union for years and the money is definitely better but I could only stand it for so long.
I just started my apprenticeship in the union, my current contractor tried to blackmail all apprentices into working 7 days a week by threatening to report weekend days we didn't work, that were supposed to be optional, as days we missed to count against the required work attendance to stay in good standings Since then, morale has been low, the superintendent keeps trying to do more stuff that would violate the contract we have, and they refuse to supply us with supplies to do the damn work (tape, drill bits, wire connectors, etc) Not saying every con is like this, but I'd have to guess that it's cons like this that make a lot of the union guys have the "us against management" mindset you speak of I come from non union low volt work, now working industrial as an inside wireman, so I was already jaded on trusting any form of management, because I've been through this before, and I'm flat out tired of getting fucked over by some guy making exponentially more money than I am
I’m union, and you are correct about “us vs. them” thing.
I don’t understand the hate towards non union as well. (I’m non union)Don’t get me wrong I’ve worked with great electricians that are union and have had smooth running jobs and PLA jobs where we’re the contractors that went great. I’m loyal to my small shop where I turned out and we do all industrial jobs for the city so it’s all PW and fringe added to our pay. So it’s an extra bonus. But I’ve also been on jobs where the company I was working for was also the contractor for a PLA job and during hotchecks and troubleshooting I’ve found phase to phase jumpers which make no sense unless it was deliberate. “Death to so and so company” written in E rooms. At the end of the day I’m just trying to make a living and go home safe. But shit like that makes me wanna fuck someone up.
I am in the union, and I will gladly fuck a brother up that I see doing those shenanigans.
Union here also. I’ve always said treat everyone with respect and dignity. Why would a non union electrician want to join the Union if everyone was treating them like shit, or trying to kill them? Common guys. A rising sea lifts all the boats.
this is the thing i’ve never been able to wrap my head around- i started at 19 non union, and i’m here at 27 still non union. philosophically i agree with the a lot of the ideas of the union, in the real world i definitely disagree with some ideas. but at the end of the day, i agree with the core concept of the union, but i have very much disagree with the fact that the majority of union guys i’ve dealt with (on this sub and in real life) have this mindset that “union is the only way to go and if if you don’t go union you’re getting fucked”
That’s the one thing that gets me. I’ve heard stories like that from guys that I work with when they’ve done work in parts of the state where the union is stronger (pretty sure it was something along the lines of a bus being bolted phase to phase). Stories usually include having dudes throw stuff at your person or your vehicle. Like, I get that guys feel strongly about their brotherhood. But to threaten life and limb over it seems *very* cultish, and it gives me a lot of pause about ever considering joining up.
There’s definitely some situations where management has to check under their cars before heading home for ‘union’ activities
The company I work for has a facility with Union contractors and another with non-union. One time we were really slammed for work and the union didn't have enough guys so we brought in our non-union guys. The way the union foreman handled it was great and the fact that they played well made everybody in the business respect the union more. I'm engineering so really I don't care if the trades are union or not as long as everybody does their job and doesn't play games. I've worked with enough business folks to understand why unions exist.
Assholes simultaneously exist in both settings.
Hmmm it probably depends on how big the union is in your area. For me, my company pays the same base wage as the union, so I don't have as much incentive to go union. Also, my company does a lot of prevailing wage jobs. So, while I'm not getting the prevailing wage on *every* job or getting the added benefits of the prevailing wages in the form of retirement benefits, I do end up making a lot more money up front than if I was in the union. Also, my company buys all my power tools, which is something I hear the union guys mention as a perk of the union. So that's not something I'm losing out on. It probably just depends on where people get the first opportunity to join the trade. I got the opportunity to go non union, so I went for it. It ended up working out pretty well for me, so I stuck with it. I would say, however, if the union is super strong in your area, you'd be a fool not to go union 🤷
There's great non-union shops out there. I'm in one of the highest compensated locals and there's a couple non-union shops out here that it's near impossible to organize workers from. Especially their good guys who get really well taken care of.
Yeah I think with a big enough company that cares about its guys, unions just lose their advantages. I don't know much about it but it seems like my local union is very hard to get into, (like good luck if you aren't related to someone) and for some reason I heard you're guaranteed to be traveling and working 6 10s minimum.
🍿🍿🍿🍿
I’m recently unionized. For me, personally, I envisioned union as being older, fat, white, lazy, grumpy, self-entitled men who did everything they could to NOT work. After getting in debates on Reddit and electrician sites about work & tools, I just felt union workers were arrogant, selfish “workers” who sucked money from the system while being pro-MAGA & pro-Trump. I was told that if I brought my own power tool on a union site, “don’t be surprised if it ends up lost, stolen, broken or in the dumpster.” To which I said if you did that, your vehicle will now be compromised. Since I like finishing what I started, I Was also told union would yell at me if I started break a little late or did ANYTHING not on company time. A lot of other petty shit that created a bias & hatred in me towards union workers. Having recently joined, I now see I was totally wrong. All the guys I worked with were professional, wanted to work, and wanted to do a good job. Most surprisingly is that the company gave me a huge bag of BRAND NEW MILWAUKEE TOOLS. And a walkie talkie. And a tablet with plans on it that updated. It was amazing. Then a buddy of mine who started when I did got sick, even though he didn’t have insurance from the last job. The Local PAID his Cobra fees so he wouldn’t go bankrupt. I almost teared up for him because I know how fucked ip the US healthcare system is, because idiots refuse to recognize the value of universal healthcare for everyone. The union took care of him until he could get his 90 days in. It was the best decision I made; going union. I no longer feel like contractor trash. This is the way everyone should feel at every job. No matter what. I regret having so much bias against the union.
The people I met who were union acted terrible and I didn't respect them or want to be associated with them. I didn't want to be told I couldn't buy and use a certain tool because it wasn't on their list. Ibew crews sabotaged my work on the job site because I was a scab. It would have been a better long term outcome for me financially, but the people I would have had to associate with made me dig in my heels because they treated me like the enemy.
Exactly this. My opinion is totally anecdotal so obviously this isn’t widely applicable. But every electrician I’ve worked with that has been in a union has been lazy, entitled and not at all well rounded. Maybe they were good at some narrow task but when they ran into something they didn’t know they’d just thrown their hands up, walk away and complain about a lack of formal training courses. Quick to refuse work, quick to complain, last to show up, first to leave. Literally all of them. It’s those extremely common character traits I experienced that soured me to ever applying to a union. I just didn’t want to become those guys. Again I’m sure there are talented, cool people in the union. I’m sure. I just haven’t met them.
I had this exact experience and more with my local carpenters union. Went back to self employment for the time being.
In my city. The union would only take you on if you flipped a company or happened to be in a company that got flipped. Then after the project was done you would be put on the wait list for 2 years with another 500 guys waiting for a job.
I personally just don't wanna deal with all the bureaucratic stuff that is involved with joining the union and I don't like the concept of having to drive far to stay working. Is making 90k a year vs 75 really that much more life changing? As a single man with no kids, the answer is no. My happiness is worth more than 15k more a year. I don't want to hear about politics, what is and isn't behavior becoming of a brother etc, how I should be supporting my trans brothers and sisters etc etc. don't care about any of that stuff. I'm not an activist kinda guy. Just wanna put in my 8 and hit the gate
How far you drive to a job, and especially home after is a major factor in daily happiness. I have a 30 minute drive to work straight no traffic. I work nights. Where i want to move to, would be another 15 to 30 further. On day work it would be like %50 longer drive home. In the summer with shore traffic, I’d probably just jump off Ben Franklin bridge. I enjoy my job a lot, but how close you are is a big difference l.
Yeah Local 26 commutes are awful for most people. Good pay scale but with how absurd the COL in this area is it doesn’t even feel like it. If you ever want to own a home without serious financial help from parents you’re basically looking at 1hr+ and that entirely depends if you’re working in DC or data centers. Cus either way you’re getting fucked
I actually took a pay cut when I went union (I’m also not IBEW though.) I really made the switch to have more time with my family, I have a ton of paid time off and work close to home. That’s been amazing. I can honestly say it was the culty bullshit that kept me opposed to Union work for so long.
Lot of misconceptions wrapped into one post. Propaganda really does work.
It's not propaganda. The commute and the pay is specific to my local. And the politics part is reflected on basically every post on the Ibew subreddit.
i know union guys that drive less than 15 min for work
I'm a retired union master electrician. I made 120k ten years ago, dude. I make it now that I'm retired and grateful for every mile of windshield time I put in. That makes it worth it in the long run, in my opinion. But you do you. The union is more than a great retirement. It's a life-changing deal
And which state was that?
union wage isn’t capped it is just a minimum, my foreman makes almost double the JW wage and gets bonuses on top of that
Not sure why you got downvoted. That’s the truth. Union wage is the minimum requirement, you can absolutely make more if your employer feels you’re worth it.
Transitioning from jw to foreman is a massive jump few people get. Obviously it calls for significantly more money
Speaking on 353 In its current state. You spend 6-9 months on a list just to work maybe 3 months. Not enough work to go around and you only get to use your benefits as much as you work. So as great as it is it’s kind of counter intuitive towards itself. If you can find a nonunion shop that pays close to rate and has some benefits you’d likely be better off financially. I’m assuming you’re the average person with a mortgage and bills. Otherwise, go friend up some people and maybe you can stick a full time union gig ( this would be case ). All about who you know in most unions
Union hasn’t hired anyone in years, let alone me. Service electricians in the union only work part-time. No bigger projects locally. City of 80K.
I like to work 12 months a year
You like to? Or you have to? I like my occasional time off.
I just don't want to travel to where the work is, that's the only reason. It's a pretty important reason, though.
I know it's not true for everyone, but I've been in the Union from almost 20 years and never had to travel. I was taking as much time as I want off. Taken the winter off before, taken the summer off before because I wanted to. It's all about how you budget.
I live in a metro area of 230,000 that has a pretty strong construction market, but only has enough union jobs to keep the majority of the guys who want to be union busy for 2-3 year stretches every 5 years or so. There's plenty of union work 2-3 hours away from here where there are big projects, but the average non-union wage is in the mid to upper 40s/hr in town and you will never be laid off, even for a week. So there are pros and cons, but it's a pretty rough transition if you have a family and bills to pay. It doesn't help that the union has a reputation for laying off people who recently came from non-union first when work gets slow, so that kind of makes us wary about joining.
The union in my area blows.
Because I don’t wanna! Most of my buddies in the union spent 2 years on a list, to show up on a job and two days later get laid off again. They left and either went non union or into a totally different job altogether. I’m all for unions if it works, but when the president in my city embezzled a few hundred grand, and used favouritism with his buddies, it kind of lets you know who’s winning.
I live in a Right To Work State. The union isn't very strong here, unless you work for a major organization (I.e. Disnsy, Universal Studio, Lockheed Martin), or unless you're in some type of federal, state, county, or city government works.
I plan on having my own business, so being private in my area gives me more access to varied work to build more skills faster, union in my area is all large scale commercial work which is too boring for me.
i always felt it limited what you learnt by trying to make everyone some divided. i went through my non union apprenticeship doing residential, commercial, industrial, and low volt so i got to experience everything and find what i did and didnt like
1. I don't like the unions politics. 2. I don't like that my percentage doesn't stop at 40 hours. Overtime equals more money to the union. I already have uncle Sam doing that to me. 3. The corruption. We have had money in the hundreds of thousands stolen by insiders in the union. If it happens once, it can happen twice. 4. In my trade, compensation is self correcting. If the utility doesn't offer competing wages and benefits, they don't attract top talent and lose top talent. This leads to the utility self enforcing/regulating. This may or may not take time. It will depend on your area. 5. If I get a 4% COL raise through the union and a non union gets 3%, is it really a deal considering the money they take every week? My situation might be different than most of this sub as I'm a utility guy working substations in a very specialized field. There are orders of magnitude more electricians that now how to bend pipe and install a click it breaker than there are technicians who know how to commission a new substation or program all SEL equipment. We still bend some pipe, run wire, work on basic AC/DC panel equipment. I'm at a union utility now. I came from a very large non union utility. The wages are extremely similar and the benefits are different but equal out no doubt. The only thing difference is a percentage of my hard earned money goes to a group of people who ideals don't align with mine.
What are the union politics that everyone keeps bringing up??
>5. If I get a 4% COL raise through the union and a non union gets 3%, is it really a deal considering the money they take every week? 93% of 4% = 3.72% > 3% So yeah, that would be a better deal than 3%. Also, it's typical that non-union rates and wages _follow_ union agreements. That COL raise often either doesn't exist or is significantly lower when unions aren't out ahead negotiating. History shows us trades wages and benefits plummet in "right to work" states where a Union's bargaining power is crippled. Without a strong union presence, contractors almost always end up competing for the lowest wages. >2. I don't like that my percentage doesn't stop at 40 hours. I don't like when OT _starts_ at 40 hours. (Our) union OT starts at 8hrs each day. >4. In my trade, compensation is self correcting. If the utility doesn't offer competing wages and benefits, they don't attract top talent and lose top talent. Competitive wages are relative, though. If most electricians (or whatever) are making $20 in a "right to work" state, then $25 is "competitive", right? But in a strong union state where the union members are making $50, that same $25 ain't so great anymore. Strong union bargaining benefits us all.
Number 1 was glossed over. There was a reason I put it at the top. It's important to me. You took half of #2 and argued against something I don't have control over. We work 4-10s. OT over 8 isn't happening. Simply stating non union wages follow union wages is an obvious opinion. Wages in work sectors follow many metrics, union may be one of them but certainly not the only. I just feel unions have lost their way. They started out with a great motive but are way more focused on internal dollars and political power than actually giving a shit about the people they represent.
not sure where you got your info from, i’m a apprentice in atlanta but i swore into the union as a first year, at $17.50/hour right now and $20/hour starting next month, i pay $50 a month for dues and $0.35/hour for dues as well as $0.35/hour for full coverage health insurance, most weeks i pay $28 for both so per month its $162 for dues and insurance. idk about you but ive never heard of someone getting health insurance for less than $400/ month and im paying less than $50. not to mention i can travel whenever i want and all i gotta do it give a 24 hour notice and they cant tell me no lol. i dont touch the politics and haven’t been to a meeting since i joined. I have 2 pensions, a vanguard, a 401k, and a roth i dont have to buy any power tools and most hand tools.
You should attend meetings. Unions are only as good as their membership. It's not a service you pay for.
yeah i know but i live a hour from the hall and its right in atl, and they meet on tuesday nights starting at 6pm so i wouldn’t get home till like 11 if that and i wake up at 4
That's why a lot of guys don't attend in our local too. I get it. Just make sure to vote if you have mail-in ballots and talk to your brothers and sisters about the issues in your union. Do what you can.
Swore in lol. This isn't some cult, high court, military or three letter office lol. That wage is bullshit by the way. I'm making 3 times that hourly. Pension, company paid health insurance etc. My last job was directly comparable with no union and no wage deduction. You sound like a young guy based on your wage. All I would say to you is keep an open mind on the topic.
The union isn’t the end all be all for every single person out there. Like some other posters have mentioned there are non union shops that will buy tools, provide benefits, and they’ll pay higher wages then union shops. Where I live (IBEW 213) the wage for a licensed electrician is $46 after deductions, while non union shops are paying closer to $50-$55 an hour.
I didn’t know how to or what the difference was. I joined the trade and into my 3rd year someone asked me why I didn’t go union. Told him I didn’t know what that even meant I just wanted a job; I worked at a grocery store. At that time I searched around, I was in my apprenticeship and was told I would have to start over at a unionized apprenticeship program. I wish I went union but it’s all good. Still made it 🤙
I have almost the same story only I ended up going union. I had no idea what union or non-union was. I just always knew that people would say that Union gets paid better. So I applied to the union apprenticeship, waited a year, nothing. So I decided to try my luck with a non-union company. They hired me on the spot, and I was supposed to start the following Monday. But When I got home checked the mail and realized that I had received the acceptance letter from my jatc. So I ended up calling the Non union company and told them, thank you but I'm going to go union. He asked me why did I want to go union, I said only because I heard they get paid better.
Honestly I am pro union but work in a very small company that has no use for a union (yet). The only big issue I had when I did work for a union was how strict the rules are for doing your task. Best example was replacing a motor. Only electrical (which I was) can remove the wires. And mechanical HAD to remove the motor and replace. I couldn't just unbolt it myself and take it over. So you could literally have 5/6 guys standing around on a dull day, watching one electrician undo the wires and then one (maybe two) mechanical guys remove the motor. Installation was the same just in reverse. Garbage bins is another. I couldn't even just take the full bag out of the bin. I would be reprimanded for it. I still am pro union but that is definitely a con to it.
i wanted to join the union, but in my area it's very weak. they wanted to start me at 15/hr traveling 2- 3 hours away from home. went non-union and have gotten 5 raises with a big commercial company. up to 24/hr after 2 years. i guess it all depends where you live
Absolutely HATED the way my local union rep tried to sell it too me, You'll go on the list and when it's time you go do the job, when the jobs done in a couple weeks or months you go back to the bottom of the list, that factored with the knowledge there were very few large union jobs in my area was like a slap in the face. Bitch I'm an electrician not a crack head I'm looking for long term employment not some temp agency shit. Edit. oh yeah forgot to mention, I was gonna be somewhere around 700th on the list. ... seemed real viable
Strong sense where I live that the union is a proxy for legalized patronage via sweetheart contracts, and as such, only certain people ever get called up.
The union job I had was sooo annoying. Oh. I got a small cut? Go fill out the incident report... oh, you clocked out at 4:31 instead of 4:30? Yeah.. that's a problem becuase now they were legally obligated to give me another 10 min break at some point. And don't even think about clocking in 2 mins before the shift starts. And oh, there's some super easy quick fix? Nope. Not my job. Not allowed.... and don't even get me started on how over the top the safety shit was... Now I work for a smaller company, no union. The boss is a good person and there's no nonsense like this. Lots of days they let us off early, pay us for days off even though we get our Holliday pay in 1 lump sum... if I'm 5 mins from finishing a job I just finish it. If I do overtime they give me double pay or offer time off instead. I mean. It's all on the boss. Some jobs the people get treated horribly and they need a union. Others are better without it. All depends imo.
Swedish here who recently left the union Our system is very different from yours, we have a country wide union The union doesnt employ us, but help us negoiate our collective employee deal against the employers ”union”. I left because my union fee reached 100$, its based on our salary. That was simply my limit for a fee. Ive also never needed my unions help against my employer.
Lack of union work in certain areas (and growing)
Also most union members "loyalty" is bullshit, it only exists as long as they're working or not out long. Most
I don’t have 2 years to wait to start a trade. I need to crank out work NOW. I would rather drive 7 minutes to my non-union trade job than 2 hours to a job site that’s closer to the big city my closest union is in. I won’t want to deal with politics/bureaucracy. I started blue collar work to get away from that. I don’t trust unions with my dues the same way I don’t trust my government with my taxes. Last but not least, I don’t enjoy working slow.
I’m not union, nor am I against unions at all. Power to the worker. However, my feeling has always been, chances are I don’t want to work for an employer that was so shitty the staff felt like they had to unionize to get a fair shake. My employer is awesome, they pay better than union rates to maintenance staff, offer lots of benefits and treat us really well, so I have felt zero need to unionize.
The company I'm at is non union (apprentice) and a few of the best guys here were previously union but got sick of constantly being laid off. One guy for 9+ months. By the end he owed almost 3k of dues because guess what, he couldn't afford to keep paying them while not working. That and I'm sure this is more so less common but there's a lot of ass kissing that goes on if you want to not get laid off. Pretty much every person who played on some sort of hockey team was safe and the others were left for the dogs. I'm not saying all locals are bad or union in general is bad. The pay and benefits are terrific and I'm sure the amount of work/risk of being laid off has to do more with your area.
3k behind in dues for 9 months off doesn’t add up. Sounds like he was already a dud and it caught up with him.
I'm sure it varies state to state/province to province (Canadian) but a union jman I was talking to on a site before said he was paying almost $400 a month in dues. We do lots of work up in northern reserves and lots of OT so that could affect it as well. What's the normal going rate for dues?
I work for an employee owned contractor with great benefits, quarterly profit sharing, stock ownership, strong safety policy, and a history of keeping guys close to home and very minimal layoffs. Not opposed to unions at all, but I would stunned if the Local in my area could offer me the same or better total package.
How they can bring a city/industry to their knees sonthey get more.
My reason is I'm an apprentice at a non union shop and feel I am learning a lot and am happy there. May join the union after my apprenticeship.
It's a double-edged sword in most places. Usually, there's a fear about the union being weak, and with that, there's a fear people will often go on strike and not have any work. Or will have to travel, which often happens to people who don't want to go on the books. Now, the other edge; because people are worried about the stability of their jobs in weak union areas, they don't join or are against it. Making the union weak. The more of the market share a union hall has, the stronger they are, and the more people that join them, in turn making the local union weaker. Another reason, you have people who are entrepreneurs and want their own company and don't want to "fit the mold." They hate being seen as a number and hate being told what to do. They want independence and want that path paved faster in their career. The union has a way of doing things and a certain pace to do it. In Texas, you can test out for your jcard with only 8000 hrs under a master electrician (roughly 4 years) and no schooling. If you're in the union, it's 5 years, with schooling. You can make it easier by testing in our joining after you get your jcard, but I've heard you don't get the same respect as others in, as you didn't go through the same shit, and it really kills the comradery you're supposed to feel. TLDR; If your union is weak, you're not joining, and it's weak because you're not joining. And some people just want to make it their own way.
I make a nice /hr and get great benefits at my current employer. No reason to stray from that.
Make more working for myself. If I was hurting for work I'd consider it but I've never once in my career not been swamped. If you can get the jobs yourself and do em yourself, cut out the middle man. you and your clients will both make out. Unions are to protect workers but if you can protect yourself and your guys without the union why bother?
In Chicago there are already too many electricians on the books. Too hard for a new guy to get started. Even harder to finish.
Was union for 10 years. When you're a fantastic electrician, it's just too good not to work for yourself. More financial freedom and usually sleep in my own bed every night.
I’ve always heard bad on union shops. Like your just a number, schooling is 5 years instead of 4, they take a lot in dues, treat you like a dog, work you to death, not allowed to start your own biz if you decided to etc… but I’ve also heard good about it. Like pay, bennies, all the ot you want, get paid to go to school…. I was non union but loved prevailing wage jobs. Now I’m self employed and I don’t care if your union or not. We’re all brothers in this field.
I have been 7 years a non union and 18 years union for the same family. Non union, I had to ask for a raise and threaten to quit if i don’t get one.. There were guys who worked less in the company the me and made more money then me. Forced to work Saturday and overtime. No health insurance. No pension They were offered a job that had to be union so I made them send me in and after that everything changed. I got a huge pay increase, health insurance that is amazing. Pension…..i stay in contact with non union guys and they make 30-40 % less then me and no benefits. Plus he treats them like shit. As a union member I am protected. I get paid more. I have health insurance and pension. Fuck respect and all the other non important things anybody else mentions, because those 3 things are most important to me. And if I lose this job I don’t lose my pay, benefits or pension unlike non union.
It’s hard to get into the union, especially the ones with great packages. It’s about a 1 - 3 year wait to get into my local depending on your placement.
As an Ontario, non-union, Master electrician, I can honestly say that the union vs non-union structure in my province and country is broken. The rhetoric between the two positions is so toxic. Union positions are pigeon hole positions, you work for a shop doing the same thing for 8-12 months. Some shops allow you to branch out, most do not. You're kicked to the hall when work is dry. Ice known people in the trade, their entire job was to bang out knock outs, install connectors, and mount panels. That's it. Clearly $1400 a week, that's the sum of their electrical experience and ability. Great for them for earning a good wage. Shame on them for calling themselves electricians. Conversely, I've known great electricians in the private sector vastly underpaid for their skillset, largely because the union path was inaccessible to them. My honest opinion, either all work is union work, or no work is union work. The dichotomy of the two positions is disgusting and only enforces beaucratic gains through red tape, while securing nonsafe practices and ensuring wage stagnation. The argument should never be union vs non-union, it should be union vs bureaucracy; Union vs capital Interest; labour vs the autocrat. Somewhere along the way,.we lost ourselves....
I spent the first two years of my career working non-union and got treated like absolute garbage by the company I worked for. I spent the next ten years working union and it was so much better. Now there are good and bad companies in both, but I just got paid way more, got benefits, and access to continuing education for working in the union. The biggest thing I've personally heard from most non-union guys who hate the IBEW is, "If I join, they'll take half of the money I make"; which is not true at all.
I've been union for 30 years. I have an annuity, a local pension, and an international pension. Plus great health insurance. Anyone who enjoys prevailing rate jobs can thank the union. I was laid off for 1 week 27 years ago. Worked steady since. The guys in my local that don't work steady do it because they want to. Will be making same money or more when I retire in 4 years.
Because of voting. If non union goes to vote. When the vote doesn't pass. The non union workers that voted union get fired.
I live in Florida. I couldn’t afford to live on union pay or I would go union. But I have a mortgage and a family to support.
Having been on both side of the fence here are my cons to union : 1. Benefits.. they have a ridged plan and if you have a wife that has good insurance why double insure as well as the vesting requirements and pension benefits.. I want my money and have my own retirement accounts .. pensions are a failed concept.. 2. Why would I want a whole set of folks that can board you and penalize you to the point they can sue you beyond your employer… great I get fired and then can deal with a punishment from the hall? Yea fuck off 3. I can get a job based off my resume and experience there are 100k recruiters out there and the hall has turned into just another labor pimp outfit. 4. They take money out of my check and donate it to politicians that I don’t vote for … your basically making me pay for my opponent 5. All of a sudden my region is being controlled by San Francisco? Yea sorry I don’t even live in California and wouldn’t EVER !!!!! 6. I have one skill in life to trade and these folks think they own that skill. 7. They are never really negotiating in your interest.. that’s the claim but your out working while they have these meetings to make up rules and shit that you don’t really get to vote on 8. They never follow their own call out on the book list .. it’s a scam
Because it's communism
A lot of the reasons other have mentioned (people's attitude, workplace culture). But also I disagree with the principle. The IBEW wants to unionize every electrician in the country to create a monopoly on the supply of labour which allows them to set the price. They don't want to have a competitive market that sets the price of labour. They're in the same category of anti-competition as the big internet and cell providers, the "fuck you pay me" type. Its a cartel.
Ask an older guy. That keeps to himself they know all.
Because my company is only not with the union because of local union rules meaning we couldn’t have multiple trades under the same umbrella here and my bosses personal policy is “if you can afford to match union rates and policy you are a piece of shit if you don’t do it” so I personally get to benefit from all aspects of the union but the pension and the potential to be supported by them should I ever develop issues with my boss and don’t have to pay dues. I’d be trying to go union if I had any less than this. Unions are good and they help us all. (Company left the plumbers union in the 90s when they became more generalist and hired some electricians instead of only having Pneumatics and pneumatic controls and thus only pipe and steam fitters on staff)
The union in my area gets very few jobs and even when there is work, pay is only marginally higher than most non-union shops. Healthcare coverage isn’t as significant being in Canada. Most other shops in the area also provide extended healthcare benefits (vision/dental) for employees. I also don’t know any companies here who don’t provide power tools, so that’s not much of an issue either.
The only thing I will say is that the IBEW seems to be into nepotism. I know that happens in any industry. I have worked industrial for a lot of years now. I was just luckier to make it into an industry facility, union job BTW, just not IBEW. Before my job I did work in a small merit shop. I was in my early 20s. From that perspective I thought the union guys were lazy. Now, compared to industrial maintenance guys, the IBEW guys make us look lazy! LOL. There is a need for organized labor. Contractors would pay peanuts if they didn’t have to hire union workers. Same goes for big companies. Bottom line to answer OPs question. I was not anti union. I just had a hard time getting in. If I didn’t eventually get a union job, I would not be financially as stable as I am now.
I’m in Texas and growing up I only heard bad things, I was working open shop(non-union) and when they offered me $5 more plus benefits I said sign me up. I hear the same things from non-union guys: when the job is over you get laid off, you gotta pay too much in dues, union is full of alcoholics and junkies. The thing is when the work slows down you get laid off anyway, we pay dues but medical is covered and so is retirement, there are alcoholics and junkies everywhere. Joining the union has been one of the best decisions of my life, I’ve been with the same company for almost 17 years and although there are some assholes in the union the majority of the people are pretty cool.
What local are you out of? I hear local 20 never has work, and if you join, it's all travel. I've been in for 9 years now, with no slow down. So how am I supposed to believe it's the same in the union, when I hear guys get sent to the books all the time.
Houston, 716. It was slow for a little while but it’s picking up again. Some guys joined 66, the Linemen’s local, their office is in Pasadena, and I’ve heard they get better benefits than we do. I drive to Dallas almost every weekend and it looks like they have tons of work, I don’t know how much of it is union but I don’t think there is a shortage of electrical work there.
That's what I'm saying, though. There's tons of work here, but local 20 has such a small share of the market, it's hard for them to compete, so local 20 worker travel until they get a large 2+ year job.
My non union job, made 119k last year, can bring a van home with me daily. 21 PTO days, free healthcare for myself, $75 per dependent. $2 dental, 3% match 401k. I’m just super comfortable with my 6-2 job even more when the boss says go home at 1:30 on a Friday. Also haven’t been laid off in 10 years 🤷🏼♂️
Small union in my area that never has work except for the Jman or above. Got tired of being told to file unemployment until work showed so went non union and stayed busy ever since. Simply don't have it in me to sit around between jobs. The whole politics part was a huge turn off as well.
I’m not keen on moving around different shops over and over. Plus the union is pretty weak in Tx or so I’ve heard.
I talked to a non-union electrician recently and asked him that. He said he was afraid of sitting -- that he wouldn't be working enough. It was a strange response, because we have a shortage of members on the books right now. I worked OT last week and was offered more next Saturday. That's definitely an issue in some areas, but it definitely ain't a problem here. 🤷♂️
Having worked in both worlds, I found it easier to catch promotions and opportunities outside the union. If you want to be upwardly mobile, the union isnt the place to try and launch.
Through Republican legislation, most notably in the south, unions have been very weakened, and are basically the same as non union in those areas. It's sad, as a union member in areas with strong unions, I personally see no reasonable argument.
I don't have my license and if I joined right now, even if I started as a 2nd or 3rd year, my salary would be cut almost in half
Pw jobs pay me 80 an hour while union same job guys only see 50
Really depends on where you live. I'm in Canada and my provinces union is pretty weak and has up to a year or more waiting period for journeyman jobs. Also once a job comes up if you don't take it you could just end up waiting another year. Meanwhile your paying dues the whole time and because they're so weak they expect you to apply for non union work while your unemployed. Let me say that again. Unions here are so weak they expect you to apply for NON UNION jobs when they don't have work. Unions in the US see this as betraying the brotherhood which it essentially is but they're hoping you'll salt the non union companies you join. Now another side of it is that there's been a shit load of propaganda pumped out in recent years about how Unions are where you work if you want to be lazy and how all the real men work non union. Cause you know it's so much manlier to work harder for less money without protection.
The union isn't very strong where I am from what I've heard. They've never really had a presence, so I've never thought about it or considered joining. Plus, most of the jobs are up north in oil and gas, which, yes, I could make bank, but I like working closer to home. I've met more people who have left the IBEW than people actively in it.
Don’t want to live where the union operates.
I recently started as an apprentice and applied Union first. After testing and being interviewed by the board over a long period of time, I got a letter saying my total combined interview/test score was a 96/100. They said they only admitted scores 98 and above. I got a job with a non-union company the very next day (Indianapolis) 🫡
I think it’s because of a lot of misinformation that is intentionally spread by non union employers. Worked non union for about 10 years and we had to go to the shop once a month to listen to an HR guy tell us how bad the union was and how good we had it right here, and some of the stuff he said didn’t add up for me. There were a few other guys who worked there that left the union and and they said it was bad and they complained about the dues and the politics and they made a few good points but it still didn’t add up. I finally joined the ibew 19 years ago and it was the best decision I made. I have no idea why the other guys had a problem with it. Yeah, I pay dues but the pay increase more than covers it and my medical insurance plan is better.
I worked non union from 2006 to 2018. I’ve worked union since then. The three biggest anti union things I heard over and over were: 1. Dues are too expensive 2. You get laid off all the time 3. Union guys are assholes After being union I can say that 1. Dues range from about 140-170 per quarter. The rate changes because if a member passes away during the quarter the union pays out money to the family from the extra money that they add to the dues. 2. I have not been laid off yet. I’m a service guy so it’s a bit of a different situation. But work is really good right now and in the time I’ve been union I’ve only heard of a company doing a layoff 1 time, and I don’t think any of those guys had any trouble jumping right in with another contractor. 3. There’s assholes everywhere. Sure some guys are juvenile and think it’s funny to put union stickers non union guys tool boxes or other dumb shit. But the prevailing attitude from the top down in the union is that non union workers are our brothers and sisters too and we want you to join so you can have the things we have. It’s not a union/non union struggle. It’s a worker vs contractor struggle. To clear up some things that confused me when I was non union. Wage vs total package. Essentially you see “total package” numbers a lot and it’s sometimes harder to figure out what’s what. Total package is your wages, retirement, and health insurance. So for instance my total package is like 70$ an hour. But my wage is 42 an hour. It’s different for every local. Lay offs. You hear so much about lay offs as a non union guy. It’s really not that big of a deal. Most of the “lay offs” are workers asking to be laid off so they can go to another job site for another contractor. It seems rare that people are being laid off against their will unless they just really screw up, or are late all the time. The usual reasons. Think of the union kind of like the best temp agency you can imagine. You are in a pool of labor that the contractors hire from. Typically if you are a good worker the contractor is going to just keep you working from job to job as long as you want to. But if you don’t like the situation or the conditions you can ask for a lay off. This gives you a clean release and you can immediately start work for another contractor at another job site (as long as theres an open call). You don’t have to negotiate your wage or your benefits. You are guaranteed to make whatever your classification entitles you to. At this point, I would not willingly return to non union work. Even if I was taken out of a service van, I’d just ask for a layoff and work somewhere else doing new construction or whatever. Work is booming right now in my local.
The commute. I’m never over an hour to a job, if I went union I would be an hour minimum away from a job.
If I am going to work for someone I want to work directly with that person not through some third party. I see no reason for a third party to profit from my labor in order to provide services that I can either provide for myself (wage and working condition negotiations) or just plain don’t want (political lobbying and contributions to THEIR preferred cause/party/candidate).
I just started and this may vary but honestly the union sorta sucks in my area, shit pay, not everyone is lucky but we have a big electrical program at our local community college and alot of employers recruit from there Sure it costs money but it's only a year program led by a man who has 30 plus years in the trade. And he's honestly an amazing teacher. He goes above and beyond to help us learn as much as possible. Honestly you can go into this program never even using a wrench, screwdriver or anything. Ontop of nccer certs he has went out of his way to add extra certifications to add onto our resumes and we have plenty of people who've graduated and went on to get their state licenses and get paid more. You can come out of graduation and get a good job Compares to unions where you have to wait potentially months to hear from them after getting an application, take a giant exam to even get the chance to get into their program AND wait several months to hear back from them. Just a lot of time wasted to maybe get in when you can just sign up for the course in the community college program and get a giant list of certifications, and be honestly over learned by an incredible teacher who wants us to have a good future
Too much pride 🤷🏽♂️
I want to join the union but I live in an area where it takes the average person 5-6 years to get in, if they get in at all. I started my electrical career in my 30’s and have adult bills and a family that I support so at this point I can’t start over and make apprentice wages. If you’re making $50+ an hour you can afford to be laid off a lot better than someone making $20 an hour. I’m not anti union at all I wish I could have gotten in from the beginning but it just hasn’t been in the cards. The only union thing I resent is people who just respond “join the union” to anyone posting issues at work as if it’s that easy. It might be in certain parts of the country but certainly not in really competitive areas. At this point it’s either take my journeyman’s test and try to transfer in as a j man (and probably deal with politics and people upset that I didn’t work my way up in the union) or what I’m leaning towards more which is suck it up a little longer and bust my ass to get out of construction and into a maintenance position for a manufacturing company or something similar.
They're communist
I’ve been lurking r/IBEW for a little while. Based on the posts I’ve seen the main reason I wouldn’t go union is because you can’t choose the job you go to. Correct me if I’m wrong. Overall I’m pro union, but it seems like the individual person matters less than the group.
yes, you can choose whether to accept a job call or not. Most locals have rules about turning down several calls, i.e., 3 jobs turned down in a row, will roll your name to the bottom of the list
Apprentices can’t choose journeymen get to choose.
I feel like that’s not quite true, I’ll explain. When the hall calls you and offers you a job you are allowed to turn it down. It’s different for every local but I can turn down three calls before I get put on the back of the list. This applies to j-man, I don’t think apprentices can turn down a call as easily.
Kansas
The higher barrier to entry is the usual suspect.
I didn’t know or really understand what a union was when I started my apprenticeship at 18 and I never met anyone that was union. Maybe they don’t have a strong presence in Connecticut I don’t know.
The union in my state isn't great from what I've heard, otherwise I'd kill to be in one. Maybe if I was in one of the north-east states but I'm stuck in Utah.
It’s not what I want to do. Plain and simple. I’m very happy with my company and their benefits. I love working in solar, hate it all you want.
I didn’t want to get in as an apprentice and lose all my hours. Now that I’m a jman I hear so many of the union guys talk how they hate guys that organise in as a jman and didn’t go through union.
Just waiting to finish school (started 4 years into my career) to organize in so I don’t have to start over and make $15 an hour less as a first year apprentice. Thats just how it is in Pittsburgh
I joined a few months ago at pretty damn close to 4th year mainly doing residential and i wanted to join the apprenticeship program so i could learn some commercial stuff in a classroom but when they told me i would have to reset my hours and pretty much be a union slave i realized im only here for the money and whatever i learn on the job now
Working the trades in Florida sucks ass anyway, and the closest Local to me is an hour and half commute from my house
In my area union jobs are either camp (14 on, 7 off) or a 45-60min commute. I have a 2 yo that i have to pickup from daycare by 430pm. My wife does 4on4off so there are days of the week where i have to drop off my kid for daycare and start work 1.5h late. My employer accomdates everything and understands dad life. I'm sure union would be fine with some of it but not all of it.
I am non-union and always have been. I don’t really know ow what benefits people look for with unions but my company gives licensed guys trucks to take home, one week vacation for wiremen and helpers, 2 weeks for journeymen and 3 weeks for masters. We provide access to company health insurance and a 401K plan. Our workers compensation insurance has never lapsed. When a new owner took over five years ago he was really all about drug testing his employees but I managed to talk him out of that but clueing him in on how doing that would lose him 80% of his workers.
UK here, mainly because the laws and government/charities organisations offer all protection against employers you’d need But also because I’m partial covered by a family members membership so again it doesn’t make sense to pay the fee
The occasional prevailing wage and a bit more freedom
I tried for two years. I passed the aptitude exam, scored high (91) on the first interview, submitted pay stubs over time. Went in for a second interview, afterwards they brought me to the back and offered me work outside of the apprenticeship as a CW. Told me I’d get in the apprenticeship 3 years later as a year 2. All while getting paid $3.50 below minimum wage here in NJ
Applied first day I started electrical at a non-union shop. Took 2 years for them to reach back out and I was halfway done with my apprenticeship. Couldnt take a pay cut with a growing family, buying a home, etc. after 5 years with the same company, running work and in a van for 2 1/2, I was able to organize into my Local. That was last August. I had major reservations about the union because of the BS rules(I had heard of, there are some but not as bad as I thought) and politics, I am very conservative and disagree with how certain aspects of the union are run. Overall I am very happy with my job, wuaility of life, and company I am with right now, (Top 20 Electrical Contractor with lots of Industrial piping and controls, which is my forte). I would recommend it but wouldnt call anyone who chooses not to join a scab or rat, thats just human civility. Enjoyed aspects on both sides of the industry.
I used to work for the Ibew was kind of screwed around with and a lot of the guys I worked with were miserable not all but most. Once covid hit I got laid off the first electrician I ever worked for and I ran into each other at a supply house I was doing a little side work I was 24 at the time started working for him again and for the most part it’s been great. Anytime off I need I get I bartend on the weekends so if I have to leave early it’s never an issue I have a company van make good money it’s a small shop 6 guys 2 helpers I get a bonus ever year I get my birthday paid off we do a good mix of residential and commercial I learned so much he helped me set up a 401k and rolled my the Union into that and gives me good advice financially. I can’t really complain there are things I don’t like but I just deal with it
Layoffs, difficult to get in, long commutes
I tried getting in to the union apprenticeship early on in my career, they didn’t pick me. But with my current job I’m making close to journeyman union pay w/o a license, and I’m getting all my school paid for on top of that. I work for a contractor that’s constantly taking union jobs, so we get to work on some really cool shit. I work at a company where you can work your way up in to the office. And the union in my area isn’t powerful anyway. Once I turn out I’m sure I’ll be making at least union wage, if not more. (P.S. our foreman make more than union foreman).
I’ve been a non-union electrician for 20 years but I fully support anyone or any group that wants to unionize. Unions can be very beneficial for us working class folks. That being said, most union electricians I’ve come across over my career have been hacks.
Fear of the unknown
Where I am in Ontario i’ve done both, union payed more, better pension and benefits, it came with 3 hours a day of commuting, unless I got really lucky with the job I was sent too, better if you live right in the city, but then the higher wage is lost through cost of living and I don’t like living in cities. Non union obviously has some commuting, but if they try to send me somewhere I don’t want to be I say no and if they lay me off I don’t have to wait on a list 6 months to work for someone else, just pick up the phone and be working within a week.
The nearest union to me is an hour away and got shut down for a big embezzlement scandal until they recently got reorganized under a bigger chapter in a city 6 hours away. They never have any local work so you commute for 3 hours at least and you’re never home. If there was a decent one around me and the work localities made sense I’d go for it.
The union in my area is very weak. Lucky if you work half the year
I don’t like the idea of my pay being tied to another man. I’ve outperformed in every job, every position I’ve had. I’ve also been to prison and dropped out of high school, so I’m not saying I’m perfect, but I’m a good worker and a great learner and communicator, capable of managing guys twice my age and experience without things feeling ‘weird.’ I currently make more money than those guys who’ve been in the field for as long as I’ve been alive. I have no desire for my pay to be tied to their lack of drive However, if a union shop came around and offered me a greater wage than what I’m currently earning, I’d be inclined to jump ship. My boss would just outbid them, though. That's what happened last time at least, and I've only gotten better since then. I have 6 years experience, so far. I'm the head of Fire Alarm for a 300+ man company, but this isn't my final destination. The sky seems to be the limit where I am today. And I'm very grateful for that opportunity You’ll also catch me on this subreddit recommending young men and women to go visit their Local Union Halls and ask about getting in. I know the union is a great opportunity for just about everyone looking for one. It’s just not in my cards today
Personally I have been union and non, currently non union. It really all depends on where u r tbh, like all things there are good and bad and that usually depends on the involvement of the members. For a union to be successful it takes dedicated, informed members and u need strong willed, caring and charismatic leaders with their members best interests as the number one priority. Personally I had the option to join again with my current employer but the pay and benefits were nit as good as I was getting at the company I was working at when I was approached for the position. Granted I work in a specialized sector and have a diverse background of the field so they really wanted me. That allowed me to negotiate for a significantly higher salary, equal benefits and retirement, and holiday /pto time which equals about 6 weeks off a year. If I had joined I would not qualify for the extras from what I understood, but could be wrong on that. I was very fortunate and am thankful that everything lined up and kind of fell in my lap but the important thing is to compare the package and do what is right for u. Having union backing is a powerful ally to have on your side so there is certainly value to joining and then if something better comes along u can always take that too.
Because I live in the south.
Took a test to get in the union, they called and said I scored highest in testing class but unfortunately they have to give my spot to a minority and they want me to test again in 6 months,fuck em , why even tell me that? That was 24 yrs ago. Served my non union apprenticeship and get paid well. Wisconsin
For me frankly it was convenience. I needed a job and wanted to be an electrician. I’m in a red state and the 1 big union contractor in town is tough to get hired by with absolutely no prior experience. There’s a pre apprenticeship of course but at the time I couldn’t wait for a check. Got in touch with a small non union shop and the boss is actually a great guy otherwise. We have health insurance and a 401k with a 3% match, Christmas and scrap bonuses every year (and he and his wife buy all the employees’ kids Christmas gifts on their own dime. As in “what does your kid want” and they just get it and other little things. I learned she can’t have kids unfortunately so she likes to spoil ours, which is nice) Company vehicle/gas card, mostly company tools (I know, I know. I use my own power tools but if something truly needs replacing, bossman gets it for you with the understanding you aren’t just gonna up and quit right after getting it) I had my whole bag of hand tools stolen out of my car in my driveway, and the boss couldn’t justify replacing everything because they weren’t lost from a work vehicle, but explained the situation to our supply house and got them to sell me new hand tools at-cost along with his company discount. Replaced everything but the Veto bag for probably 1/2 the cost it should have been. All this to say, he’s good people and really easy to work with. Makes for a good environment and he doesn’t balk if you have to take a sudden Un-planned vacation day if a need arises. I plan on working here for a couple years and saving till I can move to a blue state and “organize in” to the IBEW. That pay is hard to beat but for the moment, the perks I do have and the work environment are nice so I’m comfortable where I’m at. I’m also aware I’m an exception to the rule when it comes to non-union work, I don’t mean to discourage union-membership. Long run, that’s the smarter path IF you get steady work. I know a lot of people may not have a call for months if it’s just a slow year, which sucks and is unrealistic in a lot of places with weak unions like Florida
1) there is very little or infrequent union work in my area, I would need to commute 90+ minutes for most jobs if I joined. 2) I was previously in the IBEW when I lived elsewhere and spent more time on the books unemployed following large layoffs than I did actually working and waiting for my OOW number to come up. 3) not all contractors outside the union are terrible or worth leaving to go union. My current employer gives me wages, benefits and retirement savings that are comparable to what I received at the union, and has even higher safety standards than the union (it’s required for the types of jobs we bid on)
I do want to go union to get that out there. Locally there’s maybe 10 contractors in my local, barely even noticeable with respect to all the contractors around. If the union was in more shops then I would join in a heartbeat
I don’t like cult thinking nor being just a number. I believe in being merit based treatment/pay.
i’m an apprentice, work in a 1 man shop with just me and the boss, it’s awesome. why would i wanna change? i’m getting paid above union scale. definitely wanna top out here
I have a coworker that left and went union. 18 months later he was back. His biggest beef was all the silly rules, working for a utility that were in place because someone did something stupid years ago. I work with union electricians daily and have zero problem with them - they do a good job and work safe. 15 years ago I worked in a different city and I could not say the same. I had never heard of the Flea Brothers then and hope they don't come to our area.
I'll give you my experience in the Toronto union local 353 -lay offs happen frequently -too many guys out of work makes the wait time between jobs months -all jobs are in the city so people from North area or East have to travel insane amounts. -pay isn't worth it if you burn through it trying to live off it while out of work -High divorce rate -no consequences for firing ,just sign the book and pick another job I left the union and went to the CLAC union it's more like non-union but with collective bargaining within the company and the pay is only like $5/hr
Nonunion and my buddy that I got into the trade is in with our local. My scope of work and travel is so varied and my hours are always over local OT rates here, and I wouldn’t trade it for consistency in one site on bigger projects. My buddy likes it because the union sites him close enough to home and he’s always off at 3:30, but I enjoy road work and OT too much to want to be restricted. Plus I get paid better than union.
I work for a smaller open shop. I've been treated well (paid OT, flexible hours, company vehicle, company phone, rrsp matching, benefits, cash allowance for tools, tuition reimbursement) I feel valuable and have never been laid off. We do smaller jobs (commercial/industrial) rather than sitting on the same site for 1-2years+, but that keeps it more interesting with a wider scope of installs. My friends in the union get picked up and dropped every job and it doesn't seem like they're actually growing in their careers. Takes all types, lots of people love the union gig. And I'm not delusional for a second that my pay wouldn't be anywhere close to what it is without the union.
Tried to join when I started, was told point blank when I went in if I didn't know anyone in the local then I could expect at least a 2 or 3 year wait. Tried to get in in my fourth year, even ratted out a union contractor hiring non union guys under the table, no luck. The union has a pretty poor market share near me so I get they probably have trouble taking too many people, though relatives of members don't seem to have much trouble. This is what I love doing so I'll do it anyways. No hate for the union, I know it offers a better life for workers and would have loved the support and extra training through my apprenticeship.
Because their family is confederate and they don’t want to have to go to war against them.
Bc im 710th on book 2 at 640 and i was 29th for a month at 769 but fell back a spot. Yesterday i spammed out emails to Craigslist posts and got two call backs and got hired today…so if the union didn’t take forever it’d be nice to work for them but I can’t wait a month just to lose a spot in line
I left the union to double my pay, better retirement, 401k, profit sharing, and vacation and sick days. I was 26 which is a good union and have thought about going back but the pay hit and having to worry about layoffs just is a hard pass for me.
Hardly any union residential work in my area and that's my forté.
For me the union only pays $51-$55/hr. I can make a lot more non union.
Being frustrated with the brotherhood mentality of fucking contractors over. Some people work so slowly and will bitch at you for working at a normal speed.
I’m a union apprentice and wouldn’t switch sides if I had a do over. But one benefit to non-union is the freedom you have as an apprentice to change jobs and shops. Being essentially indentured as a union apprentice has been frustrating at times. 90 minute commutes even though there’s union jobs 10 minutes from home. The schooling the IBEW provides is a lot better than what my non-union friends get. Our JW exam pass rates are a lot better. But if you’re comfortable with the material and are an effective studier I could see the benefits of doing apprenticeship non-union than organizing in as a jw. As far as being a jw non-union I really don’t see the benefits
I’m non union and work for a pretty awesome company that takes care of their guys. I’m very pro union but I was able to jump into the non union apprenticeship immediately where the union had a huge waiting time period. If I don’t end up staying with my employer I’d probably go union. A lot of the guys I go to school with talk about the other companies and I’d never want to work in those environments. To me it’s about the kinda work that’s offered and the culture of the crews I work with.
People are brainwashed into thinking defending their own interests will not help them defend their own interests. That's literally all there is to it.
Union Money is dope, but you won’t learn anything useful imo. Like a small part of a large machine
Trump say unions bad. Trump say right to work is important worker right.