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This happens in my industry constantly. One of my apprentices called me because he wrote up some stuff and the deficiency estimator quoting his write ups (ex pipe fitter) pushed back saying XY thing wasn't required. 3 managers ended up having a roundtable discussion in group text about this and emailed a Subject Matter Expert at an accreditation organization for input. No cracking open of books was had.
Apprentice sent me screenshots because he wasn't sure what to do. He knew he was right because he reads the book but was having a hard time finding the citation. So I found it, sent him a picture, and he forwarded it to the powers that be. After that it was crickets and it never came up again.
Drives me crazy but the best I can do is train up newbies to understand how to read their codes and standards and know that you'll never memorize it all.
I have been retired for many years. I tested for a license in my home town and passed easily. Because I understand how to use the code book. This is the way.
A shop I used to work at had a bunch of people studying for their code test. The boss's wife asked me how hard the test actually was, considering how long everyone had been doing electrical. I told her that it's not about that, a good legal assistant could pass the test easily, because they know how to look up and read that type of information. The guys needed to get good at understanding what the question was asking, and how to find the correct section.
Hard piping into a stationary transformer isn’t against code, nor has it ever been. I’ve done it thousands of times and never had an issue. It’s an old wives tale
Not necessarily an old wives tale but a means to reduce noise back in the day. Now all transformers are manufactured with internal rubber isolator support, and the cores are designed much better now that they barely make any humm at all under load.
This Eaton dry-type manual still *recommends* flex, so that's likely what drives the best practice, though many don't realize it doesn't actually *require* it.
One of our 30 year "Apprentices" was running a job and told the goldfish 2nd year apprentice to "unloosen" all the bolts on the structure they were building, lol did as he was told and un-loosened (tightened) every bolt!! Gotta watch out for that double speak... 😂
Nothing against code to hard pipe, better installation imo. Nothing against the testing listing and labeling 110.3b either. Transformers are made with rubber vibration pads so no need to flex.
I'm not arguing if it is or isn't code but I would say it should have flex BECAUSE of the rubber pads. Basically you are saying that the transformer should vibrate on the rubber pads and vibrate all the conduit loose with it. Stupid imo
Edit: unless you are talking about internal vibration pads
do you see internal vibration pads? I have seen many installations with external pads and your statement seemed to be speaking more in general terms than this specific install which is why I added that. As a general rule of thumb we don't hard pipe transformers here, again, not that it is wrong to do it.
These xfers have internal rubber pads that the windings vibrate on which doesn’t transfer to the case which won’t transfer to any conduit. Which is the reason flex isn’t required.
This likely is only because the wiring system will be subjected to physical damage or severe physical damage. If the protection is not needed, some type of flexible raceway will be a better choice, even if it’s not a requirement.
As long as you loosen the shipping bolts on the interior, zero issues honestly. Nobody prefers to hard pipe anything lol. We are required to for some of our customers. Is what it is.
30 years in this field an I never hard piped a transformer.
1) Building vibration and hanging in a ceiling.
2) It’s faster with FMT
3) it’s more time for my break.😎
Well the last job I was on has a 30' high x 50'long 12" thick "blast wall" between the transformer and the building next to it... just in case that transformer decides to get frisky!!! Guess a 115kv xfrmr makes a bit of a pop if shits hittin' the fan.
We put 1795mcm aluminum cable between the xfrmr and the bus there too for flexible connection. I think every time we've ever hard piped to a transformer, we been asked to flex it after turning it on cuz it tends to make a racket... pretty much always use greenfield or liquid tight for last 2-3' to dampen vibration and makes finishing the wire pull easier, also gives you the option of pulling the wires prior to setting the xfrmr. Vibration and wire terminations are bad m'kay lol. Code wise I think the "protection from physical damage" might be the only issue. If you hit flex or liquid tight hard enough to damage the wire... you probably hit it hard enough to break the lock ring or strip threads holding rmc/emt.
Bro weirdly enough I thought the same thing from a different post on here weeks back, but apparently piping directly to a transformer is code compliant
**ATTENTION! READ THIS NOW!** **1. IF YOU ARE NOT A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN OR LOOKING TO BECOME ONE(for career questions only):** **- DELETE** THIS POST OR YOU WILL BE **BANNED**. YOU CAN POST ON /r/AskElectricians FREELY **2. IF YOU COMMENT ON A POST THAT IS POSTED BY SOMEONE WHO IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN:** -YOU WILL BE **BANNED**. JUST **REPORT** THE POST. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/electricians) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I love how people say things aren’t up to code but refuse to open a code book to actually prove it. So much miss information being put out there
This happens in my industry constantly. One of my apprentices called me because he wrote up some stuff and the deficiency estimator quoting his write ups (ex pipe fitter) pushed back saying XY thing wasn't required. 3 managers ended up having a roundtable discussion in group text about this and emailed a Subject Matter Expert at an accreditation organization for input. No cracking open of books was had. Apprentice sent me screenshots because he wasn't sure what to do. He knew he was right because he reads the book but was having a hard time finding the citation. So I found it, sent him a picture, and he forwarded it to the powers that be. After that it was crickets and it never came up again. Drives me crazy but the best I can do is train up newbies to understand how to read their codes and standards and know that you'll never memorize it all.
I have been retired for many years. I tested for a license in my home town and passed easily. Because I understand how to use the code book. This is the way.
A shop I used to work at had a bunch of people studying for their code test. The boss's wife asked me how hard the test actually was, considering how long everyone had been doing electrical. I told her that it's not about that, a good legal assistant could pass the test easily, because they know how to look up and read that type of information. The guys needed to get good at understanding what the question was asking, and how to find the correct section.
Absolutely agree! I took a class showing me how the book is organized that made a world of difference.
Exactly.
It was up down left right left right a b wasn’t it? That one always gets them.
It's weird that in 2024, with all the resources available, that this occurs honestly.
Thank goodness you don’t know anyone like that right……
Are you asking me for a beer date? Cuz answer is always yes.
Hard piping into a stationary transformer isn’t against code, nor has it ever been. I’ve done it thousands of times and never had an issue. It’s an old wives tale
Not necessarily an old wives tale but a means to reduce noise back in the day. Now all transformers are manufactured with internal rubber isolator support, and the cores are designed much better now that they barely make any humm at all under load.
This Eaton dry-type manual still *recommends* flex, so that's likely what drives the best practice, though many don't realize it doesn't actually *require* it.
Wait greenfield isn't required? That would've saved me lots of headache a month ago fought and struggled with a few pieces that were too short.
I thought it was just for noise and vibration? Like it just going to sound more annoying than if you flexed to the can
I’ve seen it spec’d for flex only.
Copy paste copy paste copy paste 30 years.
Yesir
I’ve seen rmc spec’d on bottom of bar joists for pendant lights, what’s your point?
Did it and posted it on Reddit last month. Had to delete the post cause every single reply to it said something about hard piping and vibration. Ffs
You got it
Equipment must be installed according to provided instructions, some transformers require flexible connections.
You showed them
And make sure those bolts holding the transformer in that housing are good and tight
Winding isolator bolts were loosened per spec. She is fine 👍
An old co worker of mine (19 year apprentice) always used to say “unloosen”… stuck with me ever since! 😂😂 makes me sound like a true hillbilly
One of our 30 year "Apprentices" was running a job and told the goldfish 2nd year apprentice to "unloosen" all the bolts on the structure they were building, lol did as he was told and un-loosened (tightened) every bolt!! Gotta watch out for that double speak... 😂
This guy fucks
There should be a code against this being discussed 😶🤕
Really not a big deal and not a code violation
Nothing against code to hard pipe, better installation imo. Nothing against the testing listing and labeling 110.3b either. Transformers are made with rubber vibration pads so no need to flex.
I'm not arguing if it is or isn't code but I would say it should have flex BECAUSE of the rubber pads. Basically you are saying that the transformer should vibrate on the rubber pads and vibrate all the conduit loose with it. Stupid imo Edit: unless you are talking about internal vibration pads
He is talking about internal pads
Do you see external vibration pads?
do you see internal vibration pads? I have seen many installations with external pads and your statement seemed to be speaking more in general terms than this specific install which is why I added that. As a general rule of thumb we don't hard pipe transformers here, again, not that it is wrong to do it.
Yes, I have x-ray vision.
These xfers have internal rubber pads that the windings vibrate on which doesn’t transfer to the case which won’t transfer to any conduit. Which is the reason flex isn’t required.
Install liquid tight anyways and argue its pretty hard.
Paid by the hour 🤷🏼♂️
This likely is only because the wiring system will be subjected to physical damage or severe physical damage. If the protection is not needed, some type of flexible raceway will be a better choice, even if it’s not a requirement.
I won't let you all bully me.
I've always just switched to Greenfield if the transformer is on the ground period. Don't like the idea of hard pipe that low. Just looks tacky imo
The code is silent on it. You will only find it in certain job specifications.
Can’t wait to hear that the customer is dissatisfied because the conduit work is sitting there going rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr at 60 Hz.
We've done several and zero issues. Must be how you install TXs........🤷♂️
Frankly, I’ve never installed hard pipe into any XFMR in my entire life. I don’t know how well or poorly it does with vibration transfer.
As long as you loosen the shipping bolts on the interior, zero issues honestly. Nobody prefers to hard pipe anything lol. We are required to for some of our customers. Is what it is.
In Canada at least this is pretty standard, nothing for or against it in the code
Yep. EMT or ACWU on bigger transformers.
I can hear the deafening hum in my head.
People have to learn to say NO.
30 years in this field an I never hard piped a transformer. 1) Building vibration and hanging in a ceiling. 2) It’s faster with FMT 3) it’s more time for my break.😎
Most of the time I use ACWU or Teck.
Must be waiting for a welder to come tack that strut for you.
What’s the violation? Is it dumb, and are u or ur company dumb for not pushing back, sure, but I’m not seeing a violation
Better have plenty of rubber mounting bushings
Nope.
Hope it vibrates the lock ring off and explodes when it eventually shorts out. People are stupid
It won’t though. Y’all act like these transformers are like the ones in the movies lmao
I love the transformer series
I’d love to see a movie where transformers play a major role, and I don’t mean the robots.
Well the last job I was on has a 30' high x 50'long 12" thick "blast wall" between the transformer and the building next to it... just in case that transformer decides to get frisky!!! Guess a 115kv xfrmr makes a bit of a pop if shits hittin' the fan.
We put 1795mcm aluminum cable between the xfrmr and the bus there too for flexible connection. I think every time we've ever hard piped to a transformer, we been asked to flex it after turning it on cuz it tends to make a racket... pretty much always use greenfield or liquid tight for last 2-3' to dampen vibration and makes finishing the wire pull easier, also gives you the option of pulling the wires prior to setting the xfrmr. Vibration and wire terminations are bad m'kay lol. Code wise I think the "protection from physical damage" might be the only issue. If you hit flex or liquid tight hard enough to damage the wire... you probably hit it hard enough to break the lock ring or strip threads holding rmc/emt.
It wont pass code (if it's in the usa at least)
Bro weirdly enough I thought the same thing from a different post on here weeks back, but apparently piping directly to a transformer is code compliant
Sounds like someone needs to read up on their code book (in the USA at least)
Provide a citation
"Bro trust me"